Hansard, 1961-11-20

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS - COMMISSION OF INQUIRY - INTO - CONSTRUCTIONAL CAPACITY - OF SINGAPORE - (Employment of technical men to do administrative work) asked the Minister for Finance whether, in the light of the finding of the Commission of Inquiry into the Constructional Capacity of Singapore that "the employment of technical men to do administrative work is a wasteful use of an extremely scarce resource", the Government would consider reorganisation of administrative work in all departments where technical and professional men discharge administrative functions.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS - COMMISSION OF INQUIRY - INTO - CONSTRUCTIONAL CAPACITY - OF SINGAPORE - (Employment of technical men to do administrative work) Mr Speaker, Sir, with your permission and with the agreement of the Member for Anson, I propose to table the answer. Copy of answer handed in.

ORAL ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS - COMMISSION OF INQUIRY - INTO - CONSTRUCTIONAL CAPACITY - OF SINGAPORE - (Employment of technical men to do administrative work) Of course, the formula would be that the Minister will publish the answer in the Official Report. He is entitled to do that even without asking for permission of the Member who asked the question. Following is the answer: (a) The quotation in the Interim Report of the Commission referred to by the Honour-able Member has specific reference to the circumstances existing in the P.W.D. and the City Engineer's Department. The Commission pointed out the adverse effect, from the point of administration, on the D.P.W. and his Deputy who are too involved with the daily routine administrative work of the department which could be equally well discharged by an Administrative Officer. In this connection, it was recommended that the former post of A.O. in the P.W.D. which was abolished in January, 1958, should be resuscitated. This recommendation of the Commission was accepted and the post of A.O. was created in January. (b) The Honourable Member has suggested the extension of this finding to the other departments in which technical and professional officers perform administrative functions. This is not a new idea and is an important factor to be considered in any organisation. The fact of the matter is that the Head or his Deputy Head of a technical department would have to discharge a certain amount of administrative work which cannot he delegated to any one. Further, at the present moment, experienced administrative officers are scarce, insufficient to man all the posts in the establishments of Government, it is always a problem of getting on with what you have and not with what you would want to have. In the case of certain Ministries, such as the Health and Education Ministries, which have a preponderant number of professional officers, some officers who show a flair for administrative work can be posted for administrative duties.

COMMISSION OF INQUIRY INTO CONSTRUCTIONAL CAPACITY - OF - SINGAPORE - (Interim and Final Reports) asked the Minister for Finance, with regard to the Commission of Inquiry into the Constructional Capacity of Singapore, whether he would (a) explain why the Interim Report submitted by the Commission on 4th October, 1960, was only presented to the Assembly on 12th September, 1961; (b) state when is it anticipated that the final report would be received and presented; and (c) make a statement on the Interim Report indicating, inter alia, Government's policy as regards the reported acute shortages of staff.

COMMISSION OF INQUIRY INTO CONSTRUCTIONAL CAPACITY - OF - SINGAPORE - (Interim and Final Reports) May I similarly ask permission to have the answer published in the Official Report?

COMMISSION OF INQUIRY INTO CONSTRUCTIONAL CAPACITY - OF - SINGAPORE - (Interim and Final Reports) Yes. Copy of answer handed in. Following is the answer: (a) The Commission, in their earls deliberations, realised the importance of the immediate problems relating to the capacity of the Government departments concerned with the Government's construction problem and to those departments whose functions and work affect construction activity and the utilization construction capacity, and decided to submit an Interim Report on the first 2 items of the Terms of Reference. Briefly these are to enquire into the capacity of the building industry in Singapore and how it can be expanded. I agree that an early publication should have been given to the Interim Report but it was not possible to get this done owing to the other commitments, which are of a more urgent nature in some cases, of the Printing Department. But I may state that the recommendations have not, been delayed in implementation in any way through delay in printing. Before the publication of the Report, six of the major recommendations, including the one relating to the creation of the post of Administrative Officer in the P.W.D., were implemented; due publicity had been given to some of them. (b) The Final Report of the Commission of inquiry was submitted to His Excellency the Yang di-Pertuan Negara on the 16th June. Although the printing of the Report is in an advanced stage, I would not like to say when it will be presented to the Assembly. But it would not be long. (c) The existing shortage of technical officers is due largely to the retirement of experienced officers under the Malayanisation Scheme and partly to lack of fore-sight to fill this vacuum. This deficiency is accentuated in a way by the development of these technical services. Since the Government took office, it has realised the importance of an interim measure of overseas recruitment of these technical officers on a temporary basis to tide over this shortage and had carried out negotiations with a number of governments who are in a position to assist. The results have so far been meagre as technical personnel are in demand all over the world. In addition, the number of under-graduate and postgraduate scholarships in all branches of engineering, medicine, architecture, etc, have been greatly increased. It will be many years, however, before we reap the benefit.

BILLS INTRODUCED - CONTROL OF IMPORTS AND - EXPORTS (AMENDMENT) BILL - First Reading 2.33 p.m.

BILLS INTRODUCED - CONTROL OF IMPORTS AND - EXPORTS (AMENDMENT) BILL - First Reading Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to introduce a Bill intituled "An Ordinance to amend the Control of Imports and Exports Ordinance (Chapter 214 of the Revised Edition)." Bill read the First time.

Second Reading, what day?

Second Reading Now, Sir. I lay upon the Table a Certificate of Urgency signed by the Yang di-Pertuan Negara in respect of the Control of Imports and Exports (Amendment) Bill, 1961. Certificate of Urgency handed in.

Second Reading The Certificate is in order. Are typed copies of the Bill available for the use of Members?

Second Reading Yes. Typed copies of the Bill handed in to the Clerk and distributed to hon. Members.

Second Reading Mr Speaker. Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." This Bill seeks to make the Control of Imports and Exports Ordinance a permanent Ordinance. The Ordinance was promulgated on 8th December, 1950, initially for one year. It has since been extended for ten further periods of a year each and will expire on 7th December, 1961. Although the Ordinance provides that the Assembly may extend its operation for such period or periods as it may think fit, in practice extensions have been for periods of one year. The Ordinance empowers the Minister to make orders to regulate or prohibit the import and export of goods. The reason why this Ordinance had such a temporary nature at the time it was introduced was due to the opposition from the trading community who feared that controls, if made permanent, would be detrimental to trade and Singapore's free port status. During the past ten years, most import and export regulations have been removed and those at present in being are imposed mainly for health, security and exchange control reasons. In present world conditions, the power to exercise controls on imports and exports is one maintained by all trading countries as being essential in a lesser or greater degree to the requirement of their economic policies concerning trade and industry. In the interest of the economy of the State of Singapore. it is necessary that the Government should have the powers to restrict or direct imports and exports as might be required. My Trade and Commerce Advisory Council, which is composed of representatives of the four Chambers of Commerce, has been consulted and has no objection to the proposal that the Ordinance be made a permanent one. As matters now stand, it is necessary to extend the life of the Ordinance from time to time. It is considered that this procedure takes up unduly the time of the House and that the basic reason for its temporary nature, namely, the fear of the trading community over controls, has now been allayed over these last ten years. For these reasons, it is proposed to make the Ordinance a permanent statute of the State, but in so moving, I wish to assure the House that as before the powers under the Ordinance will only be exercised after careful examination and with due consideration to the needs of Singapore's trade. Sir, I beg to move. Question proposed.

Second Reading Mr Speaker, Sir, I acknowledge that the powers of this Ordinance have been exercised with moderation and for the welfare of the State. I fully appreciate the reasons which our Finance Minister has given for making it a permanent Ordinance and I am fully with him in every one of the reasons indicated. What I cannot understand, Sir, is that this Bill should be brought under a Certificate of Urgency. Our Standing Orders provide that a Certificate of Urgency may be utilised, and it has all along been envisaged that it could be utilised for matters of urgency which cannot await a lengthy debate or a postponement of a month. Here in this case the Minister must agree with me that there is, in so far as one can ascertain, no urgency of any character whatsoever. There is no question of the Bill lapsing in any shape or form. [Interruption]. It is to lapse shortly. Well, I am interested, Sir, to be corrected, perhaps not in a quite procedural manner. In that statement, the Minister did not see fit to tell us that the Bill was about to lapse; but if that were so, would it not have been appropriate to bring this up at an earlier stage? I do urge the Government - we have had two Bills in this Session and in both there were Certificates of Urgency - that when it comes to exercising the very unusual powers in the Standing Orders, they should not utilise that power unless absolutely essential.

Second Reading Dr Goh, in reply?

Second Reading Mr Speaker, Sir, perhaps the Member for Anson did not hear the words in the beginning of my speech and I may be permitted to repeat that section of it. I said: `The Ordinance was promulgated on 8th December, 1950, initially for one year. It has since been extended for ten further periods of a year each and will expire on 7th December, 1961.' That is the reason why this Bill must be taken through all stages under a Certificate of Urgency. We had, of course, originally intended that the Bill should he presented to the House some months ago but events have been such that it was not possible to place this Bill before the House then. Finally we are caught very short time and have to follow this procedure of urgency. I can assure the Member for Anson that there is no intention at all to pull a fast one either over this House or over the public. This is really not a controversial matter for reasons already stated. We have the assent of leaders of the trading community, and it is clear to both the Government and leaders of the trading community that the best course now open to us is to put this Bill on the permanent Statute.

Second Reading Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole Assembly. Assembly immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill.- [ Dr Goh Keng Swee]. Bill considered in Committee; reported, without amendment read a Third time and passed.

FINAL APPROPRIATION (1959) - BILL "for making Final Provision for the Public Service for the year 1959", presented by the Minister for Finance (Dr Goh Keng Swee); read the First time, to be read a Second time on the first available sitting day after Wednesday, 29th November, 1961, and to be printed.

PRIVATE LOTTERIES (AMENDMENT) BILL "to amend the Private Lotteries Ordinance (Chapter 167 of the Revised Edition)", presented by the Minister for Finance; read the First time, to be read a Second time on the first available sitting day after Wednesday, 29th November, 1961, and to be printed.

COURTS (ADMIRALTY JURISDICTION) BILL "to amend the law relating to Admiralty jurisdiction, legal proceedings in connection with ships and aircraft and the arrest of ships and other property and for purposes connected therewith and to repeal certain provisions of the Merchant Shipping Ordinance (Chapter 207 of the Revised Edition)", presented by the Minister for Health and Law (Mr K. M. Byrne); read the First time, to be read a Second time on the first available sitting day after Wednesday, 29th November, 1961, and to be printed.

SAND QUARRIES BILL "to provide for the licensing and control of sand quarries and for matters incidental thereto", presented by the Minister for National Development (Mr Tan Kia Gan); read the First time, to be read a Second time on the first available sitting day after Wednesday, 29th, November, 1961, and to be printed.

UNIVERSITY OF SINGAPORE BILL "to provide for the establishment and incorporation of the University of Singapore and for matters connected therewith", presented by the Minister for Education (Mr Yong Nyuk Lin); read the First time, to be read a Second time on the first available sitting day after Wednesday, 29th November, 1961, and to be printed.

COMMITTEE OF SELECTION - (Motion) 2.52 p.m. Resolved. "That this Assembly, in accordance with paragraph (1) of Standing Order 93, appoints the following as members of the Committee of Selection:- Dr Toh Chin Chye Mr Lee Khoon Choy Mr Wee Toon Boon Inche Yaacob Bin Mohamed Tun Lim Yew Hock Dr Sheng Nam Chin Mr Ong Eng Guan." -[The Deputy Prime Minister - Dr Toh Chin Chye].

ASSEMBLY HOUSE PRECINCTS - (Maintenance of order) Mr Deputy Speaker, I beg to move. That this Assembly orders that the Commissioner of Police do take care that during the present session of this House the passages through the streets leading to this House be kept free and open, and that no obstruction be permitted to hinder the passage of Members to and from this House, and that no disorder he allowed in the passages leading to this House, and that there be no annoyance therein and thereabouts; and that the Clerk of this Assembly do communicate this order to the Commissioner aforesaid. Question proposed.

ASSEMBLY HOUSE PRECINCTS - (Maintenance of order) Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir,I fully appreciate that in so far as the precincts of the House are concerned the police officers are here at our invitation and it is right and proper that the House should not seek to bind another assembly. Therefore, we have annually at the opening of each Session this motion. In this connection, Sir, I trust you will not consider it inappropriate if I express appreciation of the courtesy and quiet efficiency with which the police have discharged their responsibilities in this House. But what I cannot understand and I trust the Leader of the House will explain it, is why we need to ask the Commissioner of Police to discharge functions in the streets outside the House in respect of which, in so far as I am aware, he has ample powers. There are laws against obstructions in the streets. There are laws against processions of five or more persons - they require a licence. Perhaps the Deputy Prime Minister could inform the House why that part of the motion is necessary in order to invite the assistance of the Commissioner.

ASSEMBLY HOUSE PRECINCTS - (Maintenance of order) Mr Deputy Speaker, the Member for Anson, formerly Chief Minister in this House, had himself on past occasions moved such a motion. I would have thought that he would have understood the purpose of that motion without asking me today to explain it to him. Nonetheless, I am told that, for example, in the House of Commons there are certain regulations governing the holding of demonstrations round a certain area within the precincts of the House. And it is in the light of this tradition that we have also followed this ritual. In fact, it falls upon me, as Leader of this House, to maintain this ritual at every new Session of the Assembly. But if the Member for Anson would suggest that such a provision could be incorporated into some Ordinance, I would be only too happy to do so in future. I would like to remind the Member for Anson and other Members in this House that the last thing that we wish to see occurring in Singapore are demonstrations similar to what happened in Tokyo, when the Zengakuren organised demonstrations to prevent Members of the Diet from passing a Bill. The police then were quite helpless and, in fact, an attempt by the Diet to pass such a motion was defeated when Members in the Diet themselves fought against one another over this same motion.

ASSEMBLY HOUSE PRECINCTS - (Maintenance of order) Question put, and agreed to. Resolved, That this Assembly orders that the Commissioner of Police do take care that during the present session of this House the passages through the streets leading to this House he kept free and open, and that no obstruction be permitted to hinder the passage of Members to and from this House, and that no disorder he allowed in the passages leading to this House, and that there he no annoyance therein and thereabouts; and that the Clerk of this Assembly do communicate this order to the Commissioner aforesaid. 3.00 p.m.

SALARY OF SPEAKER Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I formally move the motion* standing in my name. *The motion reads as follows:- That this Assembly, pursuant to section 36 of the Singapore (Consitution) Order in Council, 1958, resolves that the salary of the Speaker with effect from 1st September, 1961, shall be $3000 a month. That this Assembly, pursuant to section 36 of the Singapore (Constitution) Order in Council, 1958, resolves that the salary of the Speaker with effect from 1st September, 1961, shall be $3,000 a month. The House will remember that when we moved a motion fixing the remuneration of the Speaker after he was reelected to this Assembly, I indicated that adjustments had been made in order to take into account the loss of variable allowances for the rest of the civil service. These variable allowances having been restored as from the 1st of September this year, it falls upon me to move formally that the Speaker shall also, from the 1st of September, 1961, be paid his former remuneration of $3,000 per month.

SALARY OF SPEAKER Question put, and agreed to. Resolved, That this Assembly, pursuant to section 36 of the Singapore (Constitution) Order in Council, 1958, revolves that the salary of the Speaker with effect from 1st September, 1961, shall be $3,000 a month.

PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION - (Remuneration) Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I formally move the motion* standing in my name. *The motion reads as follows: That this Assembly, pursuant to subsection (I) of section 79 of the Singapore (Constitution) Order in Council, 1958, resolves that the remuneration of the Chairman and other Members of the Public Service Commission established under section 76 of the aforesaid Order shall with effect from 1st September, 1961, be as follows:-

PUBLIC SERVICE COMMISSION - (Remuneration) Question put, and agreed to. Resolved, That this Assembly, pursuant to subsection (1) of section 79 of the Singapore (Constitution) Order in Council, 1958, resolves that the remuneration of the Chairman and other Members of the Public Service Commission established under section 76 of the aforesaid Order shall with effect from 1st. September, 1961, be as follows:-

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) (In Malay): Mr Deputy Speaker, I rise to move the motion+ in my name. The separation of Singapore from the Federation is a criminal act committed by the British colonialists in 1945 when the Federated Malay States and the Unfederated Malay States with the two Straits Settlements of Penang and Malacca were united as a Federation. At that time. Singapore was excluded from the Federation. All anti-colonialists did not cease to fight against the separation created by mankind. Sir, I intentionally used the word "anti-colonialists" because the nationalists and the Communists have both opposed colonialism and have fought against the separation. +The motion reads as follows: That, whereas it has always been the avowed objective of all nationalists of Malaya to achieve the reunification of Singapore with the Federation of Malaya and to remove the artificial division created by the British by their policy of "divide and rule", this House affirms and declares that the first objective of all true patriots of Malaya is to achieve the reunification of these two territories in a merger of Singapore with the Federation of Malaya. 3.05 p.m. Therefore, for the last 16 years, one of the slogans which was constantly heard in the nationalists' circle, including the Communists, was merger and the reunification of Singapore with the Federation. Therefore, Sir, it is no exaggeration if I move such a motion asking all Members of this House to support this merger in principle. We must presume that all Members of this House are nationalists. If they are not nationalists, then I feel that they will call themselves anti-colonialists and non-Communists. Whatever name they may call themselves, we do not ask them to say what is their stand, or whether they are in support of or that they oppose the principle of merger. As you know, only the Members of the Barisan Sosialis will be in an embarrassing position and will be in a predicament to support this merger in principle, and the principle of merger which is asked in this motion. To the members of the public, they say that they wish for merger more than anything else, anti more than anything else that has been fought for by the P.A.P. Government. Therefore, it will he strange if they vote against this motion. However, we know, anti they also know, that in their heart of hearts, merger is a matter which they do not wish, because merger means that the question of internal security will be placed in the hands of the Central Government of the Federation of Malaya, and that their hope to establish Singapore as an area separate from Malaya `will disappear. But that is their problem. To the public, they say they want merger more than the type of merger which the P.A.P. is asking for. But, in actual fact, they fear merger. We now ask them to say in this House whether they support or oppose this principle of merger. If they support merger, then we may be able to discuss the details which should be placed in the hands of the Central Government when merger is achieved. Thus, on the one hand, they oppose merger, but in public they are forced to support it. Then when we discuss the details concerning their type of merger, it will he more difficult. There is no doubt, Mr Speaker, that the strong men in their Committee have carefully considered the position. What we want now is that each Member says, "agree" or "not agree". If they say they agree, then we will proceed to discuss motion No. 7 on the Order Paper in the name of the Prime Minister today which will ask the House to accept the heads of agreement set out in the White Paper agreed to between the Governments of Singapore and the Federation and the working basis for the reunification of the two territories. Mr Speaker, there is no need to have an unnecessary debate. What is required is to count the people who agree and those who do not agree in order to record their stand on the question of principle of merger. Mr Speaker, I beg to move the motion standing in my name. Ouestion proposed. 3.14 p.m.

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) Mr Speaker, Sir, we in the Barisan Sosialis are in full agreement with the sentiments conveyed by the words in this motion by the Minister for Labour. In fact, these are the sentiments which we have repeatedly expressed in the past. These are the sentiments dear to the hearts of all socialists since our country was divided by the colonial power. It is not necessary for me to recall to your memory, Sir, the People's Constitutional Proposals of 1947 put forward by the PUTERA and A.M.C.J.A. which strongly opposed the artificial separation of Singapore from the mainland. I would like to take this opportunity to remind our Prime Minister, who seems to he smiling to himself, that the leaders of the M.D.U. whom he had recently smeared as Communists and pro-Communists were among the prime movers of these proposals. Sir, we would have supported 100 per cent this motion before the House, but for the shameful record of the Government in the last two years, and especially in the recent months. [Laughter.]

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) Order.

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) We have seen the P.A.P. leadership blatantly abusing the word "merger" and exploiting the people's aspirations for unity in order to smuggle in a constitutional arrangement which - The Prime Minister rose -

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) On a point of order?

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) Yes. I have in item 7 of the Order Paper a motion which will give the Member for Queenstown ample scope to take to task every single paragraph of that paper to express his ire, his anguish and' his rancour. And I hope we will be spared, Mr Speaker, Sir, as a matter of relevancy. a repetition of these sentiments on two separate occasions. As I have said, this is purely one on principle. If he agrees, we all count heads and we can start disagreeing on item No. 7.

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) I think we ought to wait and see how the Member for Queenstown develops his argument. It appears to me on a casual reading of the motion that there may be a dispute as to what is merger; whether merger is a merger in the dictionary sense of the word, or under the heads of agreement.

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) Thank you very much, Sir, I know they would try tricks like this -

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) Order. I think the Prime Minister was justified in raising a point of order, and I do not think that can he named as a trick.

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) My apologies to you then, Sir. I was saying, Sir, that we have seen the P.A.P. leadership blatantly abusing the word "merger' and exploiting the people's aspirations for unity in order to smuggle in a constitutional arrangement which can in no way be called merger. It is only an arrangement aimed solely at keeping themselves in office. We have seen them twisting the meaning of the word "merger" into something entirely different from what it is normally understood to be. The words of this motion. Sir, convey high and noble sentiments to which none of us can disagree. But, Sir, the record of the Government in recent months has clearly shown that their actions do not in any way match these high-sounding words. We must judge a government by its actions and not by its words. Judging from its actions. Sir, we have every justification to suspect that the Government is not sincere in what it says. It is abundantly clear that the P.A.P. is moving this motion purely for propaganda purposes. It is clear that the P.A.P. hopes that the people will mistake any support for the noble principles enunciated in this motion as a support for the P.A.P.'s type of tipu orang merger. In other words. Sir, the aim of the P.A.P. in moving this motion is to ask this House to give it a blank cheque. But. Sir, we are not prepared to give this blank cheque and we are not prepared to trust this politically bankrupt government - An hon. Member: Rubbish!

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) - a blank cheque.

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) So you are against merger.

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) In order that they may clearly understand the real motives behind this motion, we must review the political events in recent months so that we can see things all in clear perspective. Let me do the review for you and for everybody, and let us all see how this motion has come about. Mr Speaker, Sir, I think all of us can still remember that historic crisis sitting of the Assembly on the 20th of July, 1961. At that time 39 Members were still sitting on the Government benches. But what do we see today? Not only is there a complete change in the landscape in this Chamber, hut there is also not the same smug arrogance on the faces of the Government Front benchers any more. They try and laugh. You remember, Sir, when the P.A.P. Assemblymen first marched in 1959, there was not sufficient elbow room for all the 43 of them on the Government side. Within a year -

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) On a point of order, Sir.

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) Point of order.

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) Mr Speaker, as you mentioned to me at the last sitting of the Assembly, that was last Friday, you told me not to go back to history. I am just wondering whether what the Member for Queenstown has uttered is relevant to the motion on merger. I do not think the landscape in this Chamber is comparable to the landscape in the Federal Parliament at all.

MERGER (SINGAPORE/FEDERATION OF MALAYA) - (White Paper) I was listening very carefully to the Member for Queenstown, as indeed I will have to listen very carefully to all speeches in this debate, and it appears to me that perhaps the Member for Queenstown is going into a little more detail than he ought to in these reminiscences. I cannot see at the moment how these reminiscences have any hearing on the motion, hut perhaps he could assist the Chair by suggesting how they are relevant.