Hansard, 1977-02-22

Mr Speaker, Sir, I propose that Mr Tang See Chim, Member for Chua Chu Kang, be elected Deputy Speaker of this House.

Sir, I beg to second the proposal.

There being only one proposal, I declare Mr Tang See Chim to have been duly elected as Deputy Speaker of this Parliament. Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Sir, hon. Members join me in congratulating the hon. Member for Chua Chu Kang on his re-election as Deputy Speaker. Ever since his first appointment as Deputy Speaker, he has always been conscious of his position and spoken rather infrequently and with moderation in this House. The indications are that he will continue to speak in the same restrained style. I would suggest however, Sir, with great respect, that you make more use of his talents and allow him more opportunities to flex his muscles and stretch his vocal chords in the Chair of this House. Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

asked the Minister for Culture and Science and Technology whether and when the People's Association proposes to construct a community centre in the Housing and Development Board Punggol Estate which has more than 3,000 units.

Mr Speaker, Sir, as the hon. Member for Punggol is aware, a proposed site of 3,300 square metres in area has been set aside by the Housing and Development Board for the construction of a new community centre to serve the residents in the new HDB estate in Punggol. The People's Association is now negotiating with the Housing Board with a view to exploring the possibility of the Board building community centres equipped with essential facilities on reserved sites within HDB estates. There will be provision for subsequent extensions to these basic structures, with construction costs to be met by funds raised through community participation. If the new arrangement for provision of community centres can be implemented in the near future, the new centre for Punggol Estate should be ready to serve the residents within the next few years.

Sir, can the hon. Minister for Culture and Science and Technology enlighten this House as to when such negotiations between the Housing and Development Board and the People's Association are expected to be completed so that work can commence as soon as possible?

Mr Speaker, Sir, we are negotiating with the Housing and Development Board. As Members know, these negotiations are usually very time consuming. But I am sure the Member will be informed when these negotiations are completed. As soon as they are completed, I can assure the Member that his will be the first community centre to be built.

asked the Minister for Law and the Environment whether and when his Ministry plans to extend modern sanitation facilities from Yio Chu Kang Road to the vicinity of Hillside Drive, Kovan Road and Lange Road.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the sewerage system completed recently in the Upper Serangoon Constituency serves the area bounded by Hillside Drive, Highland Road, Sirat Road, Yio Chu Kang Road and Upper Serangoon Road. However, due to the topography of the area, the gravity sewer could not be extended to Lange Road or Kovan Road. A separate sewer reticulation system is required for this low-lying area. The Sewerage Department is planning to provide such a system to the area. If the project is approved and funds are available -- I need not add, from the Ministry of Finance -- public sewers should be available in about two to three years' time.

asked the Minister for Law and the Environment whether he is aware that the big outlet drain at Aroozoo Lane leading to Tampines Road is in a terrible state, cluttered up with rubbish, heavily silted and badly eroded, and what remedial measures his Ministry proposes to take.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the outlet drain at Aroozoo Lane is an earth drain subject to erosion and silt. This area is heavily squattered and rubbish is thrown indiscriminately into the drain by the residents. The permanent solution to the problem is the redevelopment of the area and the construction of a concrete drain in conjunction with the Housing and Development Board industrial estate development downstream. The Drainage Department has plans to build this drain from Aroozoo Lane to Sungei Serangoon and, if the proposal is approved, work should commence in about two years' time. In the meantime, the Ministry will continue to desilt and clear the drain of rubbish whenever necessary.

Mr Speaker, Sir, may I seek your consent and the general assent of hon. Members to move a motion for an additional day, namely, tomorrow the 23rd February, 1977, to be allotted for the Debate on the Motion presently before the House?

I give my consent. Do I have the general assent of hon. Members? Hon. Members indicated assent.

Sir, I beg to move, "That, notwithstanding the Standing Orders, an additional sitting day, namely, Wednesday, the 23rd February, 1977, be allotted for the Debate on the Motion for an Address of Thanks to the President moved by the Member for Ulu Pandan on the 14th February. 1977." Sir, Standing Order 14 (3) provides that five days be allotted for the debate on the Presidential Address. This is the fifth day of the present debate. Backbenchers and even Parliamentary Secretaries have responded with gusto to my request that they should speak freely in this House. Sir, in order to give Ministers more time than the 90 minutes provided in Standing Order 14 (4) to reply to the suggestion and criticisms made during the last four days. I so move.

Question put, and agreed to. Resolved, That, notwithstanding the Standing Orders, an additional sitting day, namely, Wednesday, the 23rd February, 1977, be allotted for the Debate on the Motion for an Address of Thanks to the President moved by the Member for Ulu Pandan on the 14th February, 1977.

Order read for Resumption of Debate on Question [14th February. 1977]. `That the following address in reply to the Speech of the President be agreed to:- "We, the Parliament of the Republic of Singapore, express our thanks to the President for the Speech which he delivered on behalf of the Government at the opening of the First Session of this Parliament".'. - [Dr Chiang Hai Ding]. Question again proposed. 2.41 p.m.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, to continue with my speech, allow me to recapitulate briefly what I said yesterday because it has some bearing on what I am going to say today. Although we in this House are all from one party it does not mean that our Government is adopting a one-party policy because all of us were returned in the process of parliamentary democratic elections. The opposition parties were defeated at the last general elections; nothing more can be done because this is the will of the people. Parliamentary democracy will not exist if the communists gain control of Singapore because they are the arch enemy to the democratic system. Indeed, if they hold power not only will we be absent from this Chamber, we may be in jail or buried six feet underground. But neither will the opposition parties exist except the stooges. Although they have been defeated and have failed to dominate the student organisations and trade unions so far, they are not the type of people who despair quickly. Revelations of the past years amongst students and also the revelations of the activities perpetrated by G. Raman are proof that their objectives will be persistently carried out from time to time. Sir, yesterday I said that there were opposition parties which openly were anti-communist parties, but in the recent general elections these opposition parties consciously or unconsciously exploited communist issues in order to catch votes so that they could get one or two seats in Parliament. This is dangerous if we are not careful and if we fail to comprehend our situation, i.e, that we face this communist menace. The communists can feel proud because communist issues were used by the opposition parties during the last elections, and that the anti-PAP votes amounting to 26% could be intended for the communists; though not all of such votes. Perhaps it could be due to our mistake that there were votes cast against us at the last elections. In the name of democracy, I wish to call upon this House and to the opposition parties outside of this Chamber who believe in the principles of parliamentary democracy not to be deceived or fall into the trap of the clarion call or influence of the communists in order to gain one or two seats at the expense of the interests of our beloved country. There are signs in the forthcoming elections that if the communists are unsuccessful in an attempt to control this country through violence, they would opt one or two political parties to replace the Barisan Sosialis which has been ostracised by the people, and they would then use these parties to oppose the party that has complete faith in parliamentary democracy, especially our party. We Members of Parliament are representatives of the people and we are expected to express the wishes of the people. Because we come from the same party, the voice in this Chamber can be regarded as self-correction for the purpose of taking remedial measures. For almost 18 years that I have served in this Chamber I had no opportunity to speak as a Member of Parliament. Perhaps. Mr Speaker too, since his election to this House, could not make representation on the aspirations of the people he represents. But now I have the opportunity today to say a few words, not as a Minister of State, but as a Member of Parliament representing the Kampong Ubi constituency. Hopefully, perhaps my little contribution will not offend some of my colleagues, neither will it create any misunderstanding at all. We know that there is no government in this world that can offer everything to everyone. I will not repeat what has been said by Members over the last few days, but I wish to add bits and pieces. For the past few years we have tried to evolve a Singapore society, rugged, self-reliant and disciplined. These principles have been the theme of our message to all the people in the Republic. But from day to day we seem to hear less of these slogans. What we see, of late, is not a rugged, self-disciplined society as we are hoping for, but moral decadence among our youths. They imitate the western hippies. They take to drugs. We realise that our small country, without any natural resources, depends solely on our human resources for our development. We depend on our youth because youth is the backbone of any national development. I do not know where the fault lies. Is it because our life depends solely on materialism or that the implementation of our education policy has deviated to the extent that students show no respect for teachers while the children show no respect for their parents? Where does the fault lie? There is the theory that drug addiction is the result of activities of anti-national elements, especially the communists whose aim is to destroy our youth by the use of drugs and hippism so that in the long term our youth has no future. It would then be easy for the communists to influence them and they can then easily rule our country. I hope the Ministry concerned will go deeply into this theory because moral decadence, drug addiction, etc, do not affect those students who are less educated. Many youths who are in secondary school and who have completed secondary education are drug addicts. This is very strange. So this is a matter which we must look into. We hope to build a rugged society, self-reliant and disciplined, but unfortunately today the reverse has taken place. We will be questioned later on. At a time when we hold power and the world acknowledges our progress in the fields of economy and nation building, our grandchildren will condemn us, "How is it that during your period of rule the moral of our grandfathers regressed? Their lives were destroyed with the result that we, the grandchildren, are in a similar position." To avoid such accusation. I hope hon. Members of the House will ponder together. We should think deeply into this with a view to finding a solution. We realise that we should educate our children in line with the principle that our youths should be educated. Give our children an education different from that which we have obtained, because they were born for their era, not ours, and because their era is different from that of ours. But if we bequeath to our children moral decadence or if they are influenced by anti-national elements, it would indeed be a great pity to see our success in the various fields of nation building destroyed by them in a very short time, all because the basic values for their future had not been sound enough. I hope that the relevant Ministry sets up a commission of inquiry into the causes of moral decadence among our youth, and to make recommendations on the ways and means of overcoming these problems. There is no difference between the communist menace and the dangers of moral decadence among our youth. If drug traffickers, pro-communists and others, whose country of origin is outside of Singapore but subsequently obtained Singapore citizenship, are found and proven guilty of such perpetrations then the Government should automatically cancel their citizenships and drive them away from this country There is no Ministry yet to really focus attention to lead our youths on the correct path If we cannot create a special department for the youth, a youth and sports bureau should be set up to look after their problems. As the Member for Kampong Ubi, I share the views expressed by hon. Members in the House since the debate began. For instance, although this is a small matter but as a Member of Parliament who holds "Meet-the-People" sessions, there are many matters which are brought to my knowledge and which need the assistance of a Member of Parliament. One is the matter of Government officers passing on the buck. If the people want houses, "Go to the MP". If they want licences, "Go to the MP." Incidentally, I happen to be a Minister of State, better still, "Approach the Minister of State." We emphasise that in the present, Government there is no political nepotism. So we must inform these officers that disciplinary action may be taken if they are not careful. Likewise, with regard to payments, here and there people are complaining about payments. Why extra payments for this month? Why merely in respect of PUB charges? If the people write back to appeal, the answer is, "Pay up first and complain later." I remember that when I was a member of the People's Defence Force my superior ordered me to do something and I was not supposed to object. "Do it first and complain later " This is what is happening now. If we pay up first, we will have to wait for three or four months before we can get a refund, This is the problem, Mr Speaker, Sir, I raise this problem because in my constituency, which is a poor constituency, a person earning $200 per month has to budget for food, and this and that. If they have to pay excessive amounts on monthly bills, it is not possible for them to draw up a budget. They will be forced to borrow or to pawn their belongings. Another problem in Kampong Ubi concerns resettlement. I do not object to resettlement In fact, the question of resettlement has been a political issue since 1972. When I returned from the Philippines the then Minister for Law and National Development notified that Alsagoff estate would be acquired. The people agreed to the acquisition and resettlement for the purpose of redevelopment. Then 1973 passed on until today. What I regret most is the modus operand,' of resettlement. In the kampongs sometimes only a portion of it is cleared; five families would be resettled in the north, seven or eight families in the south, 10 families in the east, and six families in the centre. The houses of those families who had left were not looked after. In the end, the remaining families are scattered here and there. They suffered for more than two years They sent appeals to the Urban and Rural Services Committee to have the drains repaired, and the reply was that the houses would be affected by resettlement but they took two years to move them out. A doctor knows which particular disease requires an operation, but before he operates on his patients he would at least prescribe Panadol to relieve the pain. However, not a single action was taken This happened in my constituency of Kampong Ubi. So there was an absence of fair play. The clearance was carried out haphazardly. The people were told to keep the area clean but mosquitoes were found breeding in stagnant water in the area. As a Member of Parliament. I appeal to the Minister concerned to take action. Clearance should be taken in an orderly fashion, say. start with Jalan Labu, and not clear five houses in Jalan Labu and then another five houses in Jalan Kachang. This is not fair to the families because empty houses become the centre for drug addiction. This was the case in a recent fire which occurred in Geylang Serai, where an empty house was found to have been used as a drug den. This is the after-effect of resettlement. Another aspect of resettlement is that the officers are not trained in their work., They give an assurance to the people that they will be offered alternative accommodation, but when the time comes there is no accommodation "The houses have been occupied." When asked for a reason, they were told to see the MP. The MP says that, "The flats have been occupied, and therefore, the resettlement officers should not make promises." All that I have related actually happened in Kampong Ubi. I have not touched upon the problems in other constituencies. Another matter which bedevils the people is citizenship. We are aware that in certain countries the granting of citizenship is tightly controlled. I agree with this policy. But what I regret is that because of the fault of certain parents their children who were born in Singapore had their names misreported at the police station in those days. At that time police officers passed only Standard II or III. For example, the name of "Chang" was changed to "Chong"; "Mohammed" was changed to "Ahmad", and mis-spellings occurred. There are also people who were born in Singapore but are now stateless. They have no country of origin. Is it right that the children should be punished by becoming stateless because of the fault or sin of their parents? This problem, Mr Speaker, Sir, should be given due and weighty consideration. I was born in Malaysia but I came to Singapore. I became a Singapore citizen and I can enjoy the rights of a citizen of Singapore. In fact, I am a Member of Parliament. Why is it that those who were born in Singapore, but because of the fault of their parents, have become stateless? I have harped on this matter in this House many a time because this issue, on the basis of humanitarian consideration, should be given weighty consideration. I am not concerned about those who were born outside Singapore I am concerned merely with people who were born in Singapore. Nevertheless, those who were born outside Singapore should also be given consideration. In the spirit of ASEAN we should act. so that our citizens who were born in ASEAN countries, for instance, if 100 of them obtained citizenship we should reciprocate on a mutual basis. Sometimes in a family you find that the wife is a Singaporean and the husband a non-Singaporean, or the wife is a foreigner and the husband a Singaporean. This situation is commonly found for many years now. Before the introduction of family planning such a family may have 10 children and yet they are without Singapore citizenship. In the spirit of ASEAN we should discuss this aspect passionately. We do not wish other citizens to become our citizens. I think this is not quite just These are the points that are constantly brought up by my constituents who see me during my meet-the-people sessions. As the Member for Kampong Ubi, they put these grievances to me and, as I said earlier. the most important question is our youth. We hope that the Ministry concerned will take positive measures so that we will not be branded by our grandchildren later on. We cannot be proud of our developments, successes and achievements so long as our children suffer from moral decadence. With this, Sir, I support the Motion moved by the Member for Ulu Pandan. Some hon. Members: Hear, hear! 3.10 p.m.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, since the President made his policy speech in this House, many Members have spoken in the debate giving their criticisms or views, many of which seemed quite all right, moderate or objective. They merit the attention of this House and the attention of the Ministries concerned. On the other hand, certain criticisms do not seem practical; they even run counter to the policies and principles of the Government. Therefore, it behoves the Ministries concerned to reply, explain or to correct such criticisms. Sir, I believe hon. Members will agree with my views, that in the present living environment there are many matters which are easier to talk about than to act, not to speak of the complex entity of a society consisting of a very complicated structure made up of diverse factors. If we emphasise only one aspect of something it may lead to the neglect of other aspects. So only a balanced development can help maintain a balanced progress of a society. There is a Chinese saying to illustrate this point "Though the peony flower is beautiful, it needs green leaves to contrast and bring out its beauty." Moreover, before the plant can grow luxuriantly the gardener has to take a long time and much effort to fertilise, water and to cultivate the plant before it can come into bloom. Therefore, if we just look at things superficially without a deeper understanding and make certain assertions about them, that may not be correct. Therefore, I would like to correct certain criticisms levelled at the Environment Ministry by certain Members. At the same time, I will go a step further to explain the objects and the work of my Ministry. Sir, first of all. I will reply to the two points of criticism made by the Member for Changi. The Member expressed his dissatisfaction about certain hawker inspectors of the Ministry of the Environment for having taken action against certain unlicensed hawkers. I would like to ask him: if unlicensed hawkers are allowed the same rights as licensed hawkers, then what is the point of the Government issuing licences to the hawkers? What then is the use of setting up markets and food centres? Between these two categories of hawkers there must be some distinction made before the Ministry concerned can know how to exercise control. Furthermore, this matter is closely linked with the question of the maintenance of public hygiene and cleanliness and the preservation of the purity of water supply to ensure that there is no pollution. How are you going to exercise these functions without proper control? Sir. before us is a realistic question, do we want an orderly society or a loosely knit, undisciplined homestead? As a responsible Government we have to maintain law, order and peace for the people, and not just to curry favour with them. In so doing we may offend some people, but because of our duty and responsibility we have to try our best. The problem of hawkers had been dealt with between 1966 and 1973, that is a period of seven years, during which there was a nation-wide registration of hawkers and issuing licences to them. At present. there are altogether some 28,700 hawkers. Compared with the present population of our country, the number of hawkers is quite sufficient. In the Adendum to the President's speech this point has also been clearly stated. On the other hand, I am sure Members of this House may not want to see a resurgence of the old situation some ten years ago where the roads, car parks and public places were all congested with hawkers, At that time unemployment was at its height. But today the situation is entirely different. We are faced with a shortage of labour. We had to issue thousands of work permits to allow foreigners to come here to work. So the question we are facing now is not the lack of jobs but the manpower. Under these circumstances, I believe the Members will, of course, be very clear about what to do and what to follow. The Member for Changi has made another criticism. He criticised that the hawker inspectors have been taking action only in the Backbenchers' constituencies and not in the Ministers' constituencies. This is again even more incorrect. Let me quote some figures to the Member for his reference. Since September 1976 until recently, in the Changi constituency there were only seven cases of summons against hawkers. In the Kreta Ayer constituency there were 52 summonses issued.

(In Mandarin): Sir, on a point of clarification. The comparison does not seem to be quite correct, because in Changi there are very few hawkers whereas in Kreta Ayer constituency there are so many. Therefore, the use of such a comparison is not quite appropriate. It would seem that the Senior Parliamentary Secretary stands suspect of misleading the House.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I believe the Member for Kampong Chai Chee has forgotten another point. Changi is a much bigger area, perhaps 10 to 20 times bigger than Kreta Ayer. In view of this, the difference in the number of hawkers may not be so great. Maybe we have got to wait for another day when a proper survey can be made of the number of hawkers in these two constituencies. In the Kreta Ayer constituency there were 52 summonses issued. In the Rochore constituency there were 59 cases where hawkers were issued with summonses. At the same time, I have to reiterate that in 1967 when the exercise of adjustment of hawkers and the issue of licences was undertaken, the first constituency to have such action taken was Geylang West which was the constituency of the Minister who was in charge of the Hawkers Department then. The second constituency where the operation was done was Tanjong Pagar, the Prime Minister's constituency. From these facts we can say that we do not make any discrimination at all. Let me now talk about certain questions raised by the Member for Whampoa. He said that we should allocate more hawker stalls to those who are old, poor, destitute or those hardship cases. In fact, the Government has paid attention to this point for many years. But from our experience this is not a good way to help. I would like to say further that the allocation of stalls has been done after a thorough planning and consideration. The truth is that only with proper planning and operation can they make a profit. It is not just a matter of being allocated a stall and you can then make money. More important is that if you allot a large number of stalls to the old or destitute at the same place where the stall-holders lack experience, then it will be of no help to them. Perhaps they might be responsible for the poor business of that hawker centre, and thus they would land themselves in greater difficulty. The Member also wants to know about the conditions for the allocation of 5% of licences to hardship cases, This is not easy to enumerate. I can only tell him briefly that -

Mr Speaker, Sir, on a point of clarification. The Senior Parliamentary Secretary referred to the criteria for the allocation of stalls to old people. Mr Speaker, Sir, my point was that these are people with no other means of livelihood, Although they may have had no previous experience in hawking they still want to give it a try. So why cannot they be given a hawker stall? I have in front of me a letter written by the Hawkers Department to a hawker's application for a stall. If I may read out the criteria listed here: `I refer to your request ... [etc]. I wish to inform you that this Department has ceased issuing new hawker licences. However, consideration wit be given to applicants if they could , produce documentary proof: (a) that they have citizen/permanent resident dependants to support; (b) that they are unable to get alternative employment on justifiable grounds: for example. physical disability: (c) that they are in financial hardship: and (d) that they are 40 years old and above.' Sir, this means that if an old man does not have any children to support, he is, therefore, not eligible. Or if old people are deserted by their children - the children may be earning a lot of money but they are not filial and do not give a cent to the old parents who are then left high and dry, stranded without any means of financial support, again they are not eligible. So what do you do about such old people? According to the four criteria listed, I do not think anybody can qualify at all.

(In Mandarin): Sir, just now the Member for Whampoa spelt out the criteria. If there is anybody who satisfies any one of the four criteria listed, of course, he will be considered. Now let me continue. Concerning the definition or conditions on the issue of licences to the 5% hardship cases -

Sir, the Parliamentary Secretary has not replied to my question.

(In Mandarin): Sir, allow me to continue. He has a lot of opportunity to air his views. Sir, other than what has been said about such people being poor, destitute, old, or in hardship, as the Member has said, there is another situation which will also have to be considered. That is when someone who is affected by Government's clearance scheme is required to be resettled and would thereby lose his means of livelihood. Now the other criticism is about the raising of hawkers' fees which might lead to an increase in prices.

Point of clarification, Sir.

(In Mandarin): I do not wish to give way, Sir. He will have a lot of time and opportunity to air his views. On this point we have made a careful consideration. In fact, the Government is not trying to increase hawker fees. In fact, it is only a matter of reducing the subsidy given because the subsidy to every hawker stall has been quite substantial and has to be reduced gradually from now. In fact, the present rate is still far less than what is being charged by the private hawker stalls, such as in private eating houses or coffee shops. It is about one-half or one-third of the fees charged by the private hawker stall proprietors. Whatever it is, when adjusting the fees to be charged, Members will be given an opportunity to discuss and debate the matter. When the time comes, if the Member for Whampoa can extend his vision further to understand the real situation without looking through his own blurred glasses -

Sir, on a point of clarification. Sir, before the fees are raised, we should be given an opportunity to discuss, and not after.

That was what he said.

I will come to the point. (In Mandarin) Sir, if he can see further, he will realise that the hawkers do not constitute a significant number in the business population to influence the prices of commodities. The Member for Sembawang appears to be putting on the same shoes as the Member for Whampoa on this matter. It is the manufacturers/distributors, importers and more important the production countries that are responsible for the high increase in prices of commodities and inflation. Anyway, when we make adjustments to hawkers' fees, then hon. Members will have an opportunity to discuss or debate about this matter before we come to any conclusion or decision. The third point raised by the Member is that the Government should not abolish pasar ma/am which is a characteristic feature of nightlife in Singapore. In fact, there are many features of nightlife in Singapore, not just pasar ma/am alone. In addition this is a matter that affects the Government's long-term planning. The decisive factor as to whether pasar malam should be retained depends on several factors, such as whether the pasar ma/am is in a residential area, or along a main thoroughfare, or whether they will cause complaints of inconvenience to the residents, such as complaints of interference with traffic, noise and pollution, which the Government cannot just disregard. In such cases, the Government will have to consider the reallocation of sites for pasar ma/am hawkers to enable them to continue with their old trade of making a living. Such new sites may be in a market. The last point mentioned is that street hawkers should not be moved into a market or food centre where business is poor. This suggestion runs counter to the Government's policy and principle and is therefore difficult to accept. The main intention of the Government in the setting up of markets and food centres is to raise the standard of hygiene and to provide better services to the residents. Whether or not the removal of open-air street hawkers from their shabby pitches to well constructed food centres with better facilities will lead to better business actually depends on the individual hawker rather than the location. For instance, if the operator is not "positive" or a person without drive and his food does not suit his customers, then even though the locality is good, he may not get any good business. On the other hand, if he can provide cheap and good food and his services meet with the requirements of his customers, then even if his stall is at a somewhat lonely place, many customers will still go to his stall. As regards the choice of locality for setting up new markets and food centres and the provision of ancillary amenities, we have all along been dealing with such matters very carefully. We have always considered the need for a suitable locality for the convenience of the residents and customers. Generally, they are centrally placed and we would also provide supplementary facilities such as car parks, tables and chairs, sufficient space and other basic facilities. Sir, generally speaking, in this age of progress there will be produced two kinds of situations. In one situation, the people can change and adapt to the new environment, where they will be quite comfortable and march forward together with the progress. On the other hand, there will be those who cannot understand and hesitate; they do not adapt to the new situation and cannot face the challenge. So they become "drop-outs." I have full sympathy with such unfortunate people. At the same time, I hope they will strive to catch up with time and compete with the situation for their own good. I would like to appeal to the Member for Whampoa who is a learned and well informed economist and must be quite well versed with economic matters and the vicissitudes of economic situations. He should be able to show the people what to do and where to go. Therefore, I hope he can point out a way to such "drop-outs" to look for a new economic way out for them - of course, not to become hawkers alone - so as to provide new opportunities for them to make a living. At the same time, I would like to thank the Member for Anson for reminding me that we should pay more attention to penalising those hawker licence holders who do not operate the stalls but sub-letting their licence to other hawkers for profit. I thank the Member for such concern over the malpractice of sub-letting hawker licences, and we shall pay attention to him as we have always done so. Sir, after replying to all these questions. I would also like to avail myself of this opportunity to talk about the situation of our Ministry of the Environment staff to enlighten Members. These uniformed field officers, in the course of their duty, are often faced with a difficult and dangerous situation. Sometimes they have to carry out their duty late at night. Last month, there was a case where a thunder flash was thrown at a few staff of our Ministry when they were carrying out their duty in the early hours of the morning. Fortunately, nobody was injured. They were then dealing with a few cases of illegal foreign hawkers. If I do not explain this situation, Members may not quite understand. I have said earlier that a society consists of various units which interlink. So, in such diverse units, certain members of society occupy jobs which are better than the others. There are still others who carry out certain jobs which are less desired. Perhaps, we can say that it is individual luck, just as what is said in the Three Kingdoms. The strategist Kun Ming said: "Man proposes. God disposes." So, there must be somebody occupying some place in the society. Such are the difficulties and onerous tasks faced by the hawker inspectors. They are also part and parcel of our citizenry. In the course of their heavy duty, there may be certain faults or shortcomings. Very often these faults are quickly seized upon and criticised. However, seldom do we hear of any praises for any good work done by them in difficult circumstances. This is not fair to them. Therefore, lately, this work of uniformed officers is a job not liked by the young members of our society. For the same reason, there are people who are already in this kind of job in the Government service and they also want to leave. I am not trying to argue for them or to defend them. What I am saying is that there should be some clearcut line drawn between what is right and to be rewarded and what is wrong and to be punished. My contention is that if any of them has committed any serious and inexcusable error, then he should be severely punished. On the other hand, if any of them has not committed any error but has accumulated merits for diligent and faithful work, then we should by word or deed give them some commendation or encouragement. Seriously speaking, if we are short of such loyal and faithful uniformed personnel, then it will be worse for the people of Singapore and they cannot enjoy a life as comfortable as the one they have now, So, in view of this, we should not single them out and cavil too much about their faults and shortcomings. I believe that Members of this House will share my views.

Sir, a point of clarification. Let me hasten to add that the Hawkers Department has done a very good job indeed in re-locating the majority of hawkers in good hawker centres. My point is that I am not against the re-location policy as such, but simply requiring hawkers, already in good locations but on the streets, to move into those hawker stalls which have been vacant for a long time because the sites of those stalls are not good for business. I do recognise that there is a personal element involved - that some people are just no good at doing business. But we are talking about hawkers who are holding temporary licences and who are doing well in their present location. I think, in our resettlement policies in general, not too much attention has been given to the loss of business incurred by the people who are forced to resettle in the process, whether they are shopkeepers or hawkers. I have no quarrels with the general policy of requiring our young people to go out and work to learn a skill and so on rather than taking up hawking. But at the same time let us be mindful of people who are old and who are widows, who either have no alternative means of livelihood or in the case of a widow, which the Senior Parliamentary Secretary chose to ignore altogether, is really a very pathetic one, Sir, As I said earlier in this House, she may be below 40 years or above 40 years, and if she has three or four children to support and if she only qualifies for a $200" a month job as a sweeper or cleaner, how can she possibly support the children? At the same time if she has to go out and work, she cannot bring the children along with them. So she has to rely upon a baby sitter. But if she is given a hawker stall, she at least can have the younger children with her and that will save her the additional expense of a baby sitter. So I hope the Hawkers Department will relent in this particular regard, namely, for hawkers and for widows and also for other people who are resettled, like farmers who have no other means of livelihood. As we urbanise rapidly, the opportunities for the small man are disappearing rapidly. If anybody wants to start a provision shop or any kind of shop nowadays, he has to tender thousands of dollars per month rental in order to get any kind of business going. When a farmer is resettled into a Housing and Development Board flat, he loses the supplementary income that he can derive from having a few chickens, pigs and growing some vegetables. What can you do in a one-room flat if your children are not supporting you, and your rentals and PUB bills have to be paid, and the Hawkers Department just refuses to give you a hawker's licence? What alternative -

Dr Tan, I think your point has been taken.

Sir, I think he is making a statement.

Yes.

(In Mandarin): I think the Member for Whampoa has not paid attention to my reply. He made several points regarding the old, the widowed and the destitutes. In my reply I said that the Government has all along been paying attention to all these hardship cases. But what I was trying to say was that, in the same locality you cannot put all the same type of people together because it was of no help to them. On the other hand, it would contribute to poor business in such centres because all these people might be inexperienced in their business. On another matter raised by him, namely. resettlement. I would say that under the Government resettlement scheme we certainly give favourable consideration to people who are required to be resettled and have thus lost their means of livelihood. We have in actual fact taken care of them.

Sir, Members can certainly speak freely but there are certain rules of debate in this House. Perhaps I should remind every Member that when they get up on a point of clarification, they are to make their point but not a five-minute speech. 3.50 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to take this opportunity to elaborate on some of the more important aspects of labour policies which are outlined in the Addendum to the Address. We do not have natural resources or a big enough domestic market. Our continued well being depends on our ability to attract foreign investments and to sell our goods and services abroad. We were able to do this in the late 60's and early 70's aided by a favourable international economic situation. As a result we achieved double digit economic growth rates and enjoyed the benefits of successful development. Jobs were created. Wage increases were announced by the National Wages Council. There were increases and improvement in social services. However, the international economic environment has grown difficult. With the more than quadrupling of oil prices and fear of inflation, the industrial nations of the West have aimed for a modest growth rate of 5% per annum till the end of the 70's. The unemployment rates in these countries are expected to remain high. In 1976, the world economic recovery slowed down. Though the US, Japan and West Germany have announced their intention to stimulate their economies, the international economic situation for 1977 remains uncertain. OECD countries are our main sources of investments. They are also our important trading partners. Given the economic problems in these countries, investments will be difficult to come by. Furthermore, we will have to face competition for investments from our competitors like South Korea and Taiwan. Our competitors will also be marketing products and services in competition with us in these and other countries. Given increased difficulties in getting foreign investments and increased market competition and the need to find jobs for the 26,300 school leavers who will be entering the labour market each year for the next few years, policies to maximise our ability to persuade local and foreign capital to set up factories here and for overseas markets to buy our goods and services are called for. Where labour is concerned, it is in their long term interest that unions help to maintain industrial peace and pursue realistic wage and fringe benefits demands. Across-the-board wage increases and increases in the range and quantum of fringe benefits would not be possible in the immediate period ahead. Wage and other increases have to be tied to higher productivity. It is a tribute to the trade union leadership that it has moved in this direction. In the 1975/76 National Wages Council session, the union leadership has accepted full-offsetting of built-in annual increments and a freeze on fringe benefits. The National Wages Council will look into the question of offsetting of not only annual increments but all forms of increases in remuneration. Two aspects of wage policies attracted considerable publicity recently. One related to the payment of annual wage supplement. Honourable Members will no doubt recall that in April 1972, the National Wages Council, in an effort to end multitudinous disputes over bonuses and to provide for orderly wage increases, recommended that employers be given the option of choosing either an Annual Wage Supplement (AWS( plus Annual Bonus or Annual Wage Increase plus AWS. It also recommended the freezing of the levels of the Annual Wage Supplement. For those who had paid bonuses of a month's wages or more before, the Annual Wage Supplement would be calculated on the average of the bonuses of the last three years or the last annual bonus, whichever was higher, subject to a maximum of three months' wages. The only variation allowed was a decrease in the Annual Wage Supplement when trading result or productivity diminishes significantly. For those who had not paid bonuses or paid them at less than one month's wage, the Annual Wage Supplement should not exceed one month's wage. The annual bonus paid under the first option was negotiable subject to a maximum of three months' wages. These NWC recommendations were incorporated in an amendment to Section 46 of the Employment Act which were debated and approved in this House and became operative in July 1972. However, it was subsequently found that firms could still legally pay Annual Wage Supplement in excess of the frozen quantum. On 26.12.75 Section 46 was further amended to make it mandatory for employers and unions to observe the frozen levels of Annual Wage Supplement. At the same time, provision was made for employers to make additional payments subject to a maximum of three months' wages with the written prior consent of the Minister for Finance. The hon. Member for Bukit Ho Swee has suggested that employers be allowed to pay Annual Wage Supplement up to a maximum of three months' wages without having to apply for Government approval and that unions be given the right to request for higher AWS if employers made substantial profits. These proposals will mean a re-opening of negotiations on additional AWS payments in the case of many firms whose frozen quantum of AWS is below three months' wages. This will be contrary to the objective of the Government's wage policy of reducing disputes over bonuses in the form of Annual Wage Supplement and providing for orderly wage increases largely through the form of NWC wage guidelines It will also not be appropriate given the uncertain and more difficult future ahead of us. According to a survey of 2,016 firms conducted last year by my Ministry, 168 firms, employing 25,192 workers, were found to have been paying AWS in excess of the frozen quantum. Firms which have not been paying additional AWS in the past should continue to pay only the frozen amount of AWS. The problem lies with those who have paid above the frozen levels in the past. In the interest of industrial relations, the Government has allowed these companies to maintain the 1975 level of additional AWS payments if they continue to make profit in the year of application. If, however, in 1976 or subsequent years, such companies incur losses, no additional AWS payment will be allowed and they will therefore pay only the frozen amount of AWS. This is a reasonable solution to the problem of those who have paid additional AWS contrary to the policy laid down in 1972. The other aspect relates to fringe benefits. The last NWC session had recommended a freeze on the range and quantum of fringe benefits for existing companies and the provision of the minimum in the Employment Act for new companies. There had been press reports that some employers had tried to take advantage of the present situation by withdrawing accustomed fringe benefits from their employees after they have joined a trade union. My Ministry considers such actions anti-union and contrary to the spirit of tripartism which has been the foundation of our industrial harmony. Unless there are very good reasons, the same fringe benefits should be paid as before unionisation A freeze on fringe benefits is a good first step. The subject needs further deliberation by the NWC. Fringe benefits need to be rationalised and "bizarre" ones or those which are not conducive to our economic growth should be discontinued. Mr Speaker, Sir, our workers will need to be conscientious and disciplined They must strive for higher skills and competence in the years ahead to enable Singapore to achieve a comfortable level of economic growth in the midst of a less promising future of the world economy. The practice of job-hopping among our young workers must be curbed. In most cases, job-hopping among our workers can be attributed to their lack of dedication and professional pride in their job and their impatient pursuit for higher monetary rewards and rapid promotion As a measure to discourage job-hopping for frivolous reasons, the National Wages Council will be considering whether employees who job-hop should enjoy the full wage increase recommended. Several hon. Members have spoken on job-hopping. Their concern and reservations on the matter will be taken fully into account by the Council when it deals with the subject. I have no doubt that in making its recommendations, the Council will be mindful of those workers who change jobs because of a genuine search for opportunity to improve their skills. Monetary disincentive at best will alleviate the problem to some extent. The long term solution lies in employers taking more initiatives in building up a stable workforce through better motivation and concern for their workers. Mr Speaker, Sir, our entrepreneurs and managers must also play their part in preserving and improving our competitiveness. They must pursue more aggressive marketing policies. They must seek more determinedly to improve the productivity of their firms. The onus of raising productivity rests with management. Despite much encouragement on the part of the Government, not much progress has been made in this field. Part of the problem seems to be that both employers and unions do not know very much of the subject beyond the desirability of the principle of higher productivity. The hon. Member for Boon Lay himself has said he does not know what is productivity. One can assume that members of the public know even less about the matter. The National Productivity Board will have to do more promotional work in the field of productivity. For the benefit of those who were absent in this House last week when the Member for Whampoa elucidated on the subject, I would like to add that productivity means how well one uses our resources whether it is capital, labour, materials or machinery, to produce goods and services. An increase in productivity can result from using the same amount of resources but getting increased output or value of services provided Alternatively, you may get higher productivity by producing the same amount of goods or value of services with reduced amount of resources. Productivity increases can be obtained through better or more efficient use of either one or more of the resources used for production. Thus, management can be improved, the technology used upgraded or labour induced to give of their best. The National Wages Council has been grappling with this problem during its last few sessions. It has come to the correct conclusion that while it can exhort employers and unions to higher productivity, productivity guidelines should be worked out at the plant level. I have been informed by the National Productivity Board that areas for productivity improvement in our firms are many. Employers should initiate action to make better use of the resources of their firms. If they have difficulties in this regard, the National Productivity Board will provide the necessary assistance. The Board can train managers, supervisors and workers in modern management techniques and systems. It also has a team of experienced consultants who can provide technical advice to companies to improve their methods and quality of production and their marketing and financial systems. Management should also work out productivity incentive schemes. The benefits of higher productivity must be shared between employers and workers This having been said, it should be recognised that schemes to increase productivity will have to be worked out, implemented, and positive results achieved before incentive schemes are drawn up. The demand by union for incentives as a pre-condition to increase productivity is the other reason why employers have adopted a lukewarm attitude towards any productivity scheme. In opening the NTUC Seminar on "Maximising the Benefits of Productivity" at the Trade Union House on 29th October, 1976 of NTUC advised the participants that productivity programmes must precede incentive schemes, not vice versa, and that a more rewarding strategy for trade unions will be to get productivity programmes going, make them yield results, and then proceed to the negotiating table with confidence, and self-respect. I would like to commend the MPs who have spoken on this subject in this House as well as the unionists outside to take note of their leader's advice. Nevertheless, it is gratifying to note that a number of companies have on their own initiative implemented productivity incentive schemes. Again the National Productivity Board will provide the necessary assistance to firms which may have difficulties in setting up such schemes. The Board has a corps of industrial engineering consultants who are experienced in setting up standards of performances which are basic to productivity incentive schemes. Mr Speaker, Sir, last year the state of industrial relations remained stable and harmonious. There were fewer number of strikes and other forms of industrial actions than the previous year. A total of four strikes and 10 minor work stoppages occurred in 1976 as compared with seven strikes and 19 minor work stoppages in 1975 The conclusion to be drawn from this happy situation is that tripartism is progressing and collective bargaining is working in Singapore. To meet the challenges ahead, it is vital that we improve on the practice of industrial relations so as to achieve greater industrial harmony. This requires the joint efforts of labour, management and the Government. My Ministry will further improve its industrial relations services by adopting a more alert and positive approach to the prevention and settlement of industrial disputes. Priority will be given to the setting up of a departmental Labour Service to build up a corps of experienced labour and industrial relations officers. At present, almost all the officers in the Ministry are from the common user grades and, as part of their career development, they are subject to external postings after a short period on the job Officers who have the inclination and flair for such work and the requisite experience are not able to remain long enough to establish close rapport with both management and unions alike, and to pass on their experience to the younger officers. Furthermore, common user officers may not have the necessary aptitude for such work. With a departmental service, the problems associated with an open service will be avoided. Only suitably qualified persons and those who wish to make the Labour Service their career will be recruited and trained. The Ministry of Finance is now working out with my Ministry the details of the Scheme. The Scheme is intended to cover 21 Division I officers, 56 Division II officers and 70 Division Ill officers. There is, therefore, good prospects for advancement within the Labour Service. The trade unions had in the past 17 years made invaluable contributions towards the achievement of the national economic and social objectives. They could be counted upon to take the initiative to work for better mutual communication with management and inject greater professionalism among the second and third echelon union leaders. Through training, they will approach labour-management relationships from a cooperative, not combative, position :and conduct negotiations with moderation and an acute awareness that national interests must not be sacrificed. As regards the third partner in the tripartite partnership, some of them will have to discard the obsolete concept of industrial confrontation vis-a-vis the union. Personnel mismanagement in the form of adoption of inflexible and insensitive approach to labour-management problems and taking a too rigid stand on managerial prerogatives must be corrected. In many undertakings, systematic procedures for communication will have to be set up and there should be more consultation between employers and employees. Through better communication, company loyalty can be evolved and misunderstandings leading to disputes can be avoided. Mr Speaker, Sir, with our dependence on trained and productive manpower, optimal utilisation of our labour force must always be our goal, Not only is it important for our workers to acquire skills, utmost efforts must be taken to preserve and safeguard our human resources. The problems of safety and health attendant on our rapid industrialisation have been identified by my Ministry and over the last few years, my Ministry has, contrary to the impression created by the statement of the hon. Member for Potong PaSir, devoted considerable effort and time to improving the industrial safety and health of our workers, Activities were organised to promote greater safety and health consciousness on the part of both managements and workers. Three campaigns covering all factories, the construction industry and the shipbuilding and repairing industry respectively and one safety month for the wood-working industry have been held so far, A monthly publication entitled the "New Worker" on the problems relating to safety and health was started in 1973. The Ministry also laid down comprehensive standards of industrial safety and health. The Building Operations and Works of Engineering Construction Regulations was enacted in 1971. A new Factories Act was brought out in 1973. The Factories Act will be further amended shortly to provide for enhanced penalties for contraventions of safety provisions which are likely to result in the death of or bodily injury to workers. A code of practice and a guidebook were issued in 1974 for construction worksites. Guidebooks were issued on various aspects of safety and health. In 1975 a guidebook on safety in shipyards and on fire and explosions was published. Those on power presses and forklift trucks were released in September and October 1976 respectively. In 1973, a guidebook on silicosis was issued. This was followed by others - industrial dermatitis and noise-induced deafness in 1975, and hearing conservation and compressed air illness in November 1976. A van was commissioned in May 1976 to provide audiometric tests to workers. A tripartite study group on accident prevention in shipyards was set up in 1973 and a tripartite advisory committee appointed in 1975 to assist in the implementation of its recommendations. An advisory committee on the construction industry, which included representatives of developers and contractors, was established in 1973. Furthermore, to improve safety administration in factories, the Ministry enacted legislation requiring the setting up of safety committees and the appointment of safety officers. Training programmes were also organised for safety personnel, supervisors and workers, and industrial first aiders and nurses. The Ministry also expanded its Factory Inspectorate from a total establishment of 36 inspectors in 1973 to 55 inspectors in 1976. The Factory Inspectorate stepped up its enforcement by increasing the number of worksite and factory inspections from 9,995 in 1973 to 11,528 inspections in 1976. Consequently, 8,741 notices of noncompliance were served on occupiers in 1976 as compared to 1,689 notices in 1973. As a result of these efforts, positive progress has been made in the industrial safety and health situation in our two most accident-prone industries. Using the American Standards Association criteria, the accident frequency and severity in the construction industry in 1973 were 6.9 accidents per million man-hours worked and 3,860 man-days lost per million man-hours worked as compared to the 1976 statistics of 3.0 and 926 respectively. For the shipbuilding and repairing industry, the 1 973 accident frequency and severity rates were 16.9 and 2,880 as compared with 11.0 and 1,096 for 1976 respectively. These figures show that the accident rates have declined. While this decline is satisfying, nevertheless the Ministry is seeking to further improve the industrial safety and health standards in our industry. In absolute numbers in 1976 there were 698 and 1,095 accidents in construction worksites and shipyards respectively as compared with the 1975 figures of 651 and 1,142 accidents. In terms of fatalities, there were in 1976, 32 deaths in the construction industry and 15 in the shipbuilding and repairing industry The comparative figures for these two industries for 1975 were 36 and 21 fatalities. respectively. There is some improvement but more needs to be done especially by the construction industry. Where the construction industry is concerned, the Housing and Development Board, the largest developer, has agreed to my Ministry's suggestion to set up a safety department and to train its site supervisors in safety. We will concentrate on solving two major types of accidents - falling from heights and being struck by falling objects. The hon. Member for Potong Pasir has said that very little has been done to retrain our construction and shipyard workers to cope with the new situation. He might like to know that in addition to campaigns and the supervisors' courses, the Factory Inspectorate has been conducting safety orientation courses at construction worksites. In addition, a film on hazards in the construction industry to be shown to workers will be ready shortly. In the case of shipyards, some 13,800 workers have so far attended the safety orientation course organised by my Ministry. The hon. Member has also opined that wooden scaffolding should be replaced by metal scaffolding. This matter has been considered in the past. A committee headed by the Director of Public Works made recommendations in 1 972 for the safe use of wooden scaffolding. Its recommendations were circularised to all contractors. Metal scaffoldings, although more stable and mobile, have disadvantages which militate against their usage. In hot weather, they become heated which render them difficult to handle. When it rains, they are slippery and hazardous. But the most important inhibitive factor is one of economics. Metal scaffolds are almost three times more costly than wooden scaffolds. Until the costs of metal scaffolds can be reduced substantially or when we are prepared to accept a significant increase in cost of construction with the consequent increase in rental or selling price of HDB flats, wooden scaffolds will continue to be used for many more years. The hon. Member has also argued for metal scaffoldings on the grounds that steel girders have to be hauled up to high places. He might wish to know that such girders are usually hoisted up through proper lifting equipment. It is an unsafe practice to pull them up using metal scaffolding. The hon. Member for Potong Pasir can profitably enrich his knowledge on this subject if he acquires a copy of this report. In the case of shipbuilding and repairing industry, my Ministry, through the Advisory Committee on Accident Prevention in the industry, will work with shipyards to implement industrial safety and health self-regulating systems as part of their management functions. A consultancy team has been set up to assist shipyards in this and other safety problems. My Ministry is examining a proposal to set up an Occupational Safety and Health Institute to provide training, consultancy and research services. At present, training, consultancy and research are conducted on an ad hoc basis by different bodies. Therefore an institute to co-ordinate such activities appears necessary, especially as we continue to industrialise and meet other problems of industrial safety and health. A report submitted by an ILO expert on the matter is being examined by my Ministry. Finally, I agree with the hon. Member for Potong Pasir that one important technique of accident prevention is analysis of accident statistics. He complained that the statistical data in the Ministry's Annual Report lacks vision and does not allow employers and workers to pin-point the areas that need greatest vigilance. Mr Speaker, Sir, statistical data on industrial safety in the Annual Report is to give a summary picture of the situation in the year reported on. It is therefore general and not meant for use for specific safety measures by employers or workers. The hon. Member might like to know that detailed statistics on industrial accidents in construction worksites and shipyards are being maintained and analysed by the Ministry. These statistics and their analysis are supplied to the two Advisory Committees for remedial action. These statistics are also supplied to shipyards and contractors. I might add that any employer or occupier should know the nature and causes of accidents in their own factories or worksites. They need not therefore rely on the Ministry for such statistics as implied by the hon. Member. However, his proposal that safety committees be required to keep standardised accident frequency and severity rates will be looked into by the Factory Inspectorate.

Order. I suspend the Sitting now and will take the Chair again at 5 o'clock. Sitting accordingly suspended at 4.30 p.m. until 5.00 p.m. Sitting resumed at 5.00 p.m.

Resolved, "That, notwithstanding the Standing Orders, this House do adjourn at 7.00 p.m. today." - [Mr E. W. Barker]

Debate resumed Question again proposed.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I must certainly say that this House has become very interesting and lively in the last few days. Every Member who has spoken seems to be rejuvenated and has come out quite strongly on certain issues. If this keeps up and the debates remain as constructive and lively, then we shall all be working towards a better government and administration for the people. Hon. Members of this House have raised a few matters concerning my Ministry and I would like to reply to them. Firstly, of course, on sports. The hon. Member for Telok Blangah has suggested the introduction of daylight saving so that there can be one more hour of daylight for the people to participate in sports. May I point out that there is enough daylight as it is for everyone to enjoy recreation, if the people put their minds to it. With prudent practice of stagatime, the ordinary joys of keeping fit can still be the lot of our people. In his references to facilities for sports and recreation, the hon. Member, whilst complimenting "the many excellent facilities" which are being set up for the people to enjoy when taking part in "all forms of sports and outdoor activities", feels that the Master Plan caters for the haves and neglects the have-nots. He may not be aware that one of the major objectives of the Master Plan is to meet the deficiencies in popular sports facilities. If he makes some enquiries and research he would discover that there are facilities in football fields, open spaces, swimming pools, court surfaces and indoor halls which are largely used by the majority of our people, young as well as old. One of the offshoots of the Master Plan has been the release of many more school fields and halls, adding to the array of facilities available to our people. The hon. Member has also said that the facilities are revenue-generating and this immediately eliminates our younger citizens who cannot pay. We all know, Sir, that the Government's policy is not to provide anything for free. Persons using the sports facilities are expected to pay for their use so that they can appreciate what has been provided. The provision and maintenance of all sports facilities are heavily subsidised by Government grants. For example, a football field at Farrer Park is subsidised at 95% in its maintenance costs. For 22 young persons using a well-maintained football field, the cost works out at approximately 15 cents per head per day to the users, but it costs Government about $57 per day in subsidy. In swimming pools which are the most popular facility the subsidy varies from 50% - 90% in its maintenance costs. These costs exclude the capital expenditure involved in the construction of these facilities. The young also have various fringe benefits as all those in schools pay a concession rate to swimming poo1s and to the use of tennis courts on a school booking basis. Again all those in National Service and reservists, who form a large portion of our young citizens, similarly enjoy concession usage to poo1s and other facilities. The People's Association Youth Group which number some 20,000 in membership also enjoys concession privileges to swimming pools. The Liaison Officer and Chairman of the hon. Member's Constituency Sports Club would have been able to tell him that members of his Club too enjoy this latest concession to swimming pools. This philosophy of our people paying a little towards usage is to develop an attitude of proper use and to prevent abuse. The hon. Member also spoke of his disagreement with the Sports Council's rationale in the Sports for All policy. I would like to quote what our Prime Minister said when he declared open the National Stadium: `With a population of just over two million, let us not waste time to go Out of our way to produce gold medalists, whether for Olympic, Asian or SEAP games There are no national benefits from gold medalists for smaller countries. For the super powers, with large populations, winning in sports becomes national propaganda to persuade people of the superiority of their competing political systems. But it is foolish and wasteful for the smaller countries to copy this ... Any Olympic sports council member or an affiliate club which sets Out to persuade above average sportsman or sportswoman to devote the best years of their lives to training and becoming gold medalists will find their zeal misplaced, and funds cut off, For they will do an injustice to these persons ...` I have also said elsewhere that the Government's policy of Sports for All cannot be achieved if sports are confined only to the constituency level. More emphasis will be placed on inter-constituency sports to enable a broad base for sports to be built in Singapore. It is through the building of a broad base for sports that Singapore can hope to produce world-ranking sportsmen or sportswomen. Our priority is to build a healthy and robust society. We should not spend our time, effort and money in trying to produce world champions. Our country needs the people who are fit and if champions rise through our popular base of sports-consciousness, then we shall be thankful. But we do not need to produce champions in order to encourage sports participation. Our society has not the infrastructure to support the narrow pursuit of champion production. On the contrary, it is unproductive. We do not need to purposefully strive to produce a Pele or a Mark Spitz. What we want is a nation of fair-minded sportsmen, able to enjoy a competition in amateur earnestness among friends and neighbours, to enjoy the thrills of skilled display in the Athenian sense but not necessarily to see regimented materialistic and selfish modern gladiators, unable to think and act beyond the chase of gladiatorial glory. To this end. the SSC with the warm support of sponsors have schemes for the improvements of skills and the development of a skilled base. On the hon. Member's observation that Constituency Games are not popular, for his information, since 1972 when Inter-Constituency Games were introduced there has been a steady growth not only in the number of games but also in the number of participants. For example, the Inter-Constituency Table Tennis Tournament of 1977 has drawn 66 teams out of 69 constituencies. To the suggestion that Constituency Sports Rules be amended to allow sponsorship by business firms, we should not adopt a commercial hard sell for sports. We do not want each constituency game to become a duplication of a Business House League. Donors and sponsors are there and have been there. There should be no cause and call for blatant advertising by sponsors. It is the subtlety and quality of harnessing scant resources towards desirable sports promotion that have hallmarked our constituency sports promotion. With regard to the recommendation by the hon. Member for Whampoa that constituency sports clubs be given more generous funds, the Sports Council will continue to provide grants to help constituency sports clubs in their efforts to promote mass participation in sports. There is still no substitute for self-sustenance in sports promotion and I would urge that MPs should continue with their exemplary leadership and approach in obtaining funds for constituency sports promotion. The hon. Member for Long Kee has suggested that a Department or Ministry be set up to probe into youth problems. I would like to point out that there is a National Youth Co-ordinating Committee under the chairmanship of the People's Association. This Committee co-ordinates youth activities. There have been some comments on the care of the aged. Increasing attention is being given to the aged, particularly those who are destitute and have no families or close relatives. The destitute old people are granted public assistance allowance by the Social Welfare Department. Those not able to manage on their own and requiring institutional care are placed in the Woodlands Home for the Aged, an old people's home run by the Department, or in old people's homes run by voluntary organisations. I feel, as far as possible, old people should live in the community rather than be admitted into an institution. So, efforts are being made to encourage self-help among the aged so that given financial aid or supportive help they can continue to live within the community. It is agreed that more has to be done for the aged, but the Government alone cannot be expected to do all. Voluntary efforts and community involvement are necessary. The community is encouraged to assist in providing services to the aged. Various youth groups and voluntary welfare organisations are playing an important part. While more is being done for the aged, the Government is aware that it may encourage rejection or abandonment of the aged by their families. The call to instil filial piety in our children and youth is welcomed The most effective way is through the families and our education system The hon. Member for Whampoa and the hon. Member for Potong Pasir have commented on the inadequacy of the quantum of Public Assistance. The rates of Public Assistance have just been revised last year, 1st March, 1976 by 40% because of the substantial increase in the prices of essential commodities since January 1973 when the rates were last revised. Since March last year, prices of essential commodities have not changed much to warrant a further review of the Public Assistance rates at present. Sir, hon. Members are aware that the rates of Public Assistance are $40 per month for a Head of Household. $26 per month for the wife and $17 per month for each dependant, subject to a maximum of $100 per household. Relief recipients, in addition to receiving Public Assistance are also receiving benefits in cash and kind from charitable bodies and voluntary organisations. Free medical treatment is given by Government for those who are ill. Fares are also given to relief recipients attending Government hospitals and clinics for medical treatment. Every effort is made to encourage even the aged and the handicapped to do whatever casual work that may be available. This is partly to enable them to get a little extra income from elsewhere so that they need not be dependent on Government relief. More importantly, some casual work will relieve them of their boredom and loneliness and make their lives more meaningful The criteria for Public Assistance is stringent and those recipients who are able but unwilling to work are disqualified from Public Assistance. For 1976, $3.6 million was disbursed in Public Assistance to a monthly average of 6,640 families. With regard to the case mentioned by the hon. Member for Potong Pasir, I would like to state that it is not possible that the old lady and her husband had their Public Assistance reduced to $20 when she was hospitalised If the hon. Member can provide me with further information, I shall have the case investigated. The Social Welfare Department ensures that relief recipients are able to collect their allowances at Centres nearest their homes so that they need not be inconvenienced or pay unnecessary expenditure on transport. Where the head of a household is unable to collect the allowance due to illness or other reasons, he can authorise his wife or another person to collect it on his behalf. Where a recipient is unable to get anyone to collect on his behalf, the Public Assistance allowance is made to the recipient by the Social Welfare Department staff at his home. In all cases where the recipients are ill or found to be bedridden and there is no one to collect on their behalf, their allowances are always paid to them at their homes or at the hospitals by staff of the Social Welfare Department. The hon. Member for Whampoa had asked why there is no provision of legal aid for criminal cases, apart from murder cases He also mentioned that a poor person who is unfortunate enough to be involved in a criminal case and who cannot afford a lawyer is likely to suffer more injustice. Whilst it is true that the legislation which set up the Legal Aid Bureau way back in 1958 did envisage granting legal aid in criminal cases, it was decided not to bring into operation this part of the legislation as it was felt that there was a greater need with regard to civil matters then as now where legal aid would be more effectively used to the benefit of our citizens. Accordingly, when the Legal Aid Bureau started to function, it confined itself solely to civil matters. The Director and four Assistants dealt with a lot of civil claims, ranging from the recovery of small sums of less than $1,000 to the recovery of premises and acting for squatters who were dispossessed when their lands were reclaimed by their owners without any compensation whatsoever, although the squatters might well have been in occupation for decades. Since then. the activities of the Legal Aid Bureau have spread to all the branches of the civil law, including drafting contracts and helping widows and dependants claim their dues from deceaseds' estates. They have also been most active and helpful to wives who have been deserted and left without means of support. It is in matrimonial cases that the Legal Aid Bureau at present provides the most appreciated form of assistance. Even in regard to legal aid in civil cases, the Director and his present staff have, at times, been compelled to farm out their cases to members of the legal profession. Accordingly, they find themselves quite unable to cope with any increase that must surely come if and when the legal aid in criminal cases is introduced. This is not the first time that a request for the implementation of this part of the legal aid legislation has been made to me. I have had such requests since the early sixties but on each occasion I have been unable to bring about the operation of this part of the legislation mainly because of two reasons: (i) the tremendous amount of cost that would have been involved; and (ii) it is felt that all prosecutions, being supervised by the Attorney-General, would only be brought by the Police in cases where there is prima facie evidence against the accused, so that instances of injustice that may arise from a prosecution being instituted against a citizen, is reduced to the barest minimum. The Ministry feels that the social need for legal aid in criminal cases in Singapore is not as great as to warrant its introduction now, but we do have in mind its social benefits and when the, need and expense that will be incurred with its introduction are justified, it will certainly be given every consideration.

Mr Speaker, Sir, may I just clarify?

Sir, the Member can make his clarification after I have completed my speech. My Ministry is considering setting up a committee of officials to look into the immediate welfare problems which have arisen as a result of developments and, in consultation with officials of relevant Ministries, to see how assistance can be rendered in areas such as rent arrears cases, allocation of flats and hawker licences to welfare cases. 5.25 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, quite a large number of points have been raised by hon. Members with regard to the policy and administration of the Ministry of Communications and Ministry of National Development as well as the Public Utilities Board. I do not intend to reply to all of them. I will take a few points, the rest will be taken in due course by the two Senior Ministers of State. Sir, we all know that the fame of the hon. Member for Kampong Chai Chee as a rat catcher has spread far and wide. We also know him as a good story teller. But when he last spoke he revealed that he is also a fortune teller. He told us he foresaw the traffic jam that would result from development in the Central Business District and in vain did he warn the HDB against building one-room flats which he predicted would become future slums. Sir, let us examine why no heed was taken of the hon. Member's warning and, in doing so, let us remember that the period was more than a decade ago. i.e, in the early 6Os - a period of a world removed from now. Then, we were faced with the problems of poverty, of shortages and of unemployment. Now, after 1 7 years of political stability, economic progress and social development, we are faced with a different set of problems, though I say it is a more pleasant set of problems to face than the one we faced previously, and that is the problem of higher expectations as a result of growing affluence The average human being has a high propensity to forget the unpleasant incidents in life. It is a useful quality and helps to keep him sane. The Member for Kampong Chai Chee must have this quality in a high degree, and in the midst of his great oration, he must have forgotten that we were once faced with a serious shortage of housing. There was not much construction activity, as you will remember, Sir, in the period between the end of the Second World War and the early 60's. The population, however, had expanded due to natural growth and immigration and shanty towns or slums were found all over Singapore. To the head of a family, a one-room flat in more hygienic surroundings was far better than his overcrowded, smelly and dark accommodation. A one-room flat then with its running water., modern sanitation, electricity supply and proper kitchen was heaven compared to the congested, rat infested, unhealthy and fire prone hovel of an attap hut he occupied. Many hon. Members present here today must have remembered how an applicant's face lit up when he was allocated any HDB flat. He could not afford to be choosy then. The need for decent housing was urgent. Many applicants could only afford to rent one-room flats. One must remember that the average income then was $124.58 per month as against the present income of $506.73 per month. So whether we like it or not, the decision was taken to build these one-room emergency flats. The one-room flat has served its purpose. It is still useful and will still be useful. While listening to the hon. Member for Kampong Chai Chee the other day, I remembered a local Malay proverb Lepas jambatan buang tongkat, that is to say, "Throw away the walking stick which aided you, after crossing the bridge". Lest we forget, the poor is still with us and there will be a continual demand for one-room flats. For the information of hon. Members, there are 3,587 applicants on the waiting list to rent one-room flats. This is 25% of the 14,086 applicants on the waiting list to rent flats as at the end of last month. Well, to come to the Member's suggestion that we should do away with the one-room flats. Listening to him, I thought it was a very simple thing. I only wish I had a magic wand. But even though I had a magic wand which could, with one wave change the one-room flats into an old people's home or a community centre, I would not use it for the simple reason that there would be trouble. He has not thought out the problem properly. As I have said, hon. Members must be aware that there has been improvement in design as well as enlargement of the built-up area of HDB flats. For example, when the first flat was built, the built-up area of the one-room flat was 240 sq ft. It was then increased to 320 sq ft. As we went on and began to learn from the mistakes made, it was increased to 350 sq ft and the present one-room improved flat has a floor area of 370 sq ft. Mr Speaker, Sir, the rat catcher - I am sorry. The hon. Member for Kampong Chai Chee gave the impression that there was no progress made.

On the contrary, Sir -

Mr Speaker, Sir, he had his say and we had all listened to him with great patience. I think he should cultivate the quality of patience and listen in turn. An hon. Member: Well said!

Sir, I get the impression that he thinks the HDB is not concerned with the older estates. On the contrary, Sir, The HDB's priority is to provide Singapore citizens with adequate housing. It has done so for the majority and is now turning its attention to improving the older estates. The HDB has already converted 904 units of one-room emergency flats in Bukit Ho Swee into 384 units of self-contained two-room flats. Similarly. Sir, in St. Michael's Estate, the Board has converted 816 units of one-room emergency flats into 360 units of self-contained two-room flats.

And raise the rent!

Sir, if hon. Members have read the Addenda to the President's Speech with care, they would have noted that nothing is for free and that only social services and education will be subsidised But here. Sir, all the one-room flats are heavily subsidised and after conversion they will still be subsidised. So to charge a two-room flat for the price of one is not possible.

Sir, on a point of clarification. Are we going to have a debate or are we going to have a one-man show?

Do you have a point of clarification?

Point of clarification. Sir, I said in my speech that although this was done in my constituency, I decried the fact that the people were being deprived of the cheap rental, I suggested that in future improvements might be made by way of increased ventilation and so on, but not to increase the rent. I hope that helps the hon. Minister.

Sir, it does help me to refresh my memory of what he has said. But it does not contest my point that you cannot rent out a two-room flat for the price of a one-room flat. The HDB is aware and is very sympathetic with the desire of the residents of the older estates for improved recreational facilities and amenities such as those available in the new estates. It has drawn up a programme to improve facilities in the older estates. This, however, will take time and hon. Members must understand that improvements are restricted by physical limitations of existing environment. There are also competing interests, for example, do we provide car parks or open space? The HDB will endeavour to strike a happy balance between these competing interests Sir, the question of resettlement was also raised, Resettlement is a most unpleasant but necessary exercise. It has been the Government's policy to try and ameliorate the sufferings and hardship caused to those resettled. Much as we like to, we are unable to offer the same facilities to non-citizens as we do to our own, that is, giving them alternative accommodation. Priority is always given to our own citizens and as hon Members are aware, we have now more than 80,000 families waiting for public housing in addition to our own citizens who are affected by resettlement. Notwithstanding this, the rules have been relaxed to give special consideration for permanent residents who are affected by resettlement schemes to get public housing on rental if one of their children is the holder of a Singapore pink identity card. The Resettlement Department has been offering alternative shops to all shopkeepers affected by clearance scheme in so far as their trades are suitable to be carried out in such premises. The offer is open to citizens as well as non-citizens. The only difference is that in the case of non-citizens, they are not given rental concession for the shops as these benefits are only offered to the shopkeepers who are Singapore citizens. To come to another subject, Mr Speaker, Sir, I am really surprised that quite a number of Members in this House do not know what the surcharge on a PUB bill is. Many Members referred to it as a PUB surcharge. It is not a PUB surcharge. It is a charge imposed as part of Government's fiscal policy and the PUB acts as collecting agent for the Government as a matter of convenience. It does not form part of PU B's revenue and the PUB has no authority to impose, increase, reduce or remove it. Hon. Members who request the PUB to explain or reconsider the surcharge are barking up the wrong tree An hon. Member: Which is the right tree to bark?

Perhaps the appropriate place is to raise it during the Budget debate. Some hon. Members: Yes, we will.

However. Members may be interested to know that 70% of our domestic consumers are exempted from the surcharge as their total monthly bills are less than $35. About 14% pay tax at 5% and the remainder pay 10% as their bills exceed $50 monthly. Following the fourfold increase in the price of oil, electricity and gas charges have gone up considerably, and so have complaints over PUB bills. This increase in complaints is not only common to Singapore. It is a phenomenon common to utility authorities in other countries too. However, there has been quite a number of queries raised by Members over PUB bills and to assist them to explain to their constituents, the PUB has set up a team to assist Members at meet-the-people sessions in answering queries from their constituents. The hon. Member for Kampong Chai Chee has made use of the services. Recently, he had a team from the PUB at his meet-the-people session.

No. It was a forum.

I am sorry. Meet-the-people forum.

It is still wrong. It was just a forum.

Right! Just a forum where they met and discussed the queries which his constituents had raised. It was a useful session except for the fact that the hon. Member was playing the hero and baiting the members of the PUB team. We in this House have heard from time to time about how uncivil some of our civil servants are. Perhaps it is not out of turn for me to say that from time to time we also must remind ourselves that we should behave towards civil servants as we expect them to behave towards us. I know it is very difficult sometimes to resist the temptation to play the hero in front of your constituents but do not do it please at the expense of those who cannot or will not answer back. I hold no brief for the rude civil servant but I hope and expect that Members of Parliament will always behave as political leaders should. Members who want to make use of the services of this team to help them explain some of the queries which their constituents may raise with regard to their bills, please contact the PRO. Arrangements will be made accordingly. I mentioned sometime ago that the PUB is encouraging its consumers to read their own meters and they will be billed according to their own readings. This will thus reduce complaints about wrong meter readings and/or over-charging. Pamphlets explaining the reading of utility meters were sent out to all the 470,000-odd consumers. But so far, only about 1,000 consumers are sending in their own readings for billing. The campaign to encourage consumers to read their own meters will continue and the Board is working on a scheme to enable the consumers to submit their meter readings on prepaid postage cards. I hope the response will be more positive this time. The hon. Member for Kim Seng suggests a public debate before fixing PUB charges. Charging and pricing of utilities is a very complicated affair unlike pricing a grocery item off the shelf. Take electricity charges, for instance. Different charges have to be worked out for different types of consumers. There are the domestic low and high tension consumers; the industrial low and high tension consumers and the commercial low and high tension consumers. Some of these consumers have to pay a maximum demand charge in addition to others. These are but some of the factors which have to be taken into consideration when you draw up an electrical tariff. For the information of Members, for the last revision of electrical tariffs by the PUB, we engaged a very well-known electrical and tariff specialist. It took this specialist, a well-known company, Messrs. Electro Watts. 2 1/2 years of very careful study and evaluation before recommending a tariff which we accepted. That is the new tariff in which the same charge is levied for electricity, whether it is used for power or for lighting. It is not a simple thing. So to suggest that we have a public debate with the common laymen before you fix PUB charges is tantamount, Mr Speaker, Sir, to my asking you whether you would seek the opinion of the butcher before you embark on a very complicated operation. 5.51 pm

Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to clarify a few points. The first point is that I hope the House will note that I allowed myself to be interrupted twice by a Senior Minister and I was not allowed to clarify my position with one Minister So the standard is clear for all of us to assess and watch. If that is gentlemanly etiquette which the Minister expected, perhaps this is an example of what he meant by gentlemanly etiquette. Now, just a few points, Sir, When I referred to the one-room unit. I was referring to the emergency type one-room unit and not the improved type that the Minister has mentioned. That is the first point. The next point is with regard to my reputation or whatever fame the Minister has bestowed on me as a rat catcher. I did not ask for it. I would not have been a rat catcher if the Hon. Minister or some other Member had stood in that constituency, when somebody else would have been the tat catcher. The third point, Sir, If the PUB claims to have done so much for the people, I just want to know the cost of the construction of the PUB swimming pool. the saline content of that swimming pool and whether we, the consumers, since we pay PUB charges, are also entitled to take advantage of that pool which is right at the roof-top of the new PUB building.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I know that the Hon Minister is known for his debating skill and verbal -

Order. Dr Ong, are you rising on a point of clarification, or are you going to make a speech?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I think he has unfairly distorted what I said yesterday What I said was that in respect of PUB bills perhaps the television could provide a forum for the PUB to explain and justify its charges. I did not at any time suggest that the charges were too high or too low.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, just now the Hon. Minister said that some relaxation was accorded to holders of Singapore blue identity cards whose houses were affected by resettlement schemes and that they would be allowed to rent HDB flats on condition that one of their children was a holder of the Singapore pink identity card. I would like to ask whether, if the children are minors, but born in Singapore, this aspect could be given consideration?

Mr Speaker, Sir, When a child holds a card, it means that he is grown up. But in the case mentioned here, just for the sake of getting a Housing Board flat, they start to have a baby immediately I think there is a limitation there. Mr Speaker, Sir, I am very sorry that the Member for Kampong Chai Chee takes it very personally. I did not give him the nomenclature of a "rat catcher". It was headlines in all the papers. I do not mean it to be derisive. I am just making a statement of fact. Mr Speaker, Sir, he is welcome as my guest to swim in the PUB pool. The PUB swimming pool in the new building is part of the recreational facilities for members of the PUB staff. I do not think anyone would deny employees of a large organisation facilities for their recreation and relaxation A swimming poo1 is not peculiar to the PUB. There are many other statutory bodies which have swimming pools Coming to the Member for Kim Seng, maybe I did unintentionally distort a little bit of what he said. But what I am trying to convey to Members here is that to debate on PUB charges, especially the electricity tariff, is not a very simple proposition. I do not think it is a practical proposition unless you are a specialist too. If it is uncomplicated, there is no need for electrical tariff specialists. It took the specialist 2 1/2 years to come up with his recommendation To spend 10 to 20 minutes debating this complicated subject over TV with laymen is, I think, an impractical proposition.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I have forgotten one point. It is unfair for the Minister to accuse me of playing hero at the forum.

Mr Speaker, Sir, this is a matter of contention. I do not want to debate on this with him here. What I am saying is that we do from time to time in this House bring up the question of how uncivil civil servants are. We do not like that. What I am saying here now is that I am placing a group of civil servants at Members' disposal to help them solve their problems with their constituents. But. for goodness sake, let us remember that they are also human beings and let us be civil to them. That is all I am asking.

I am not disputing what the Minister has said. He is quite free to say what he thought fit. What I want to clarify is that before the forum, we had a discussion in order to crystallise certain points to be raised. Otherwise. if everyone were to raise a point, the PUB team would not be able to emerge from the forum after midnight. So certain questions were crystallised and I had the honour to mention just one of them. It happened that that particular question was a bit pungent. The PUB team found the explanation rather difficult.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not asking him for a justification of his attitude at the forum. The impression I had was that he was playing hero. and my appeal to Members here is to be civil. Let us do unto others what we expect others to do unto us. He can talk till the cows come home but he himself will not be convinced that he was quite aggressive and he was playing hero. I think it is a waste of time for me and him to stand up here and argue over that point

Mr Speaker, Sir, I think I should have the right to clarify this point. I am not taking on the Minister on a debate on that point He got that impression Now he is hearing it from me. There was no question of me playing hero. That was not my intention It was a simple question asked. If the Minister chooses to believe the kind of impression which somebody else has, or he agrees to that impression, I have no control over his mental capacity. Sir.

Thank God for that! 6.00 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Ministry of National Development appears to be extremely popular, as I have here a whole list of observations and complaints made by various Members of this House. However, I shall try to be as brief as I can and go through the more important observations or complaints made by hon. Members. To those Members whose queries or observations are not covered in my answers (they are actually here) they can see me if they really want the answers. Sir, let me start off with the most popular theme. and this is the Housing and Development Board. To start the ball rolling, the hon Member for Kuo Chuan questioned the transfer of tenancy of HDB flats from a deceased tenant Let me say that the hon. Member has been misinformed that, under the current policy of the Board, transfers of tenancy or leases to the next-of-kin in the event of the demise of the tenant or the lessee are not allowed. The true situation is that in such a circumstance, the HDB would effect an immediate transfer to the next-of-kin of the tenant in the case of rental or the lessee in the case of purchase. The immediate family who are non-citizens but are permanent residents also qualify. This policy also applies to applicants on the waiting list for HDB flats. Sir, my Minister has replied to a number of queries on the lack of recreational facilities as brought up by the Member for Aljunied. Perhaps for the new Member for Changi who complained vigorously on the poor workmanship in the construction of HDB flats, may I. for brevity, say that these observations and complaints were made at the last Budget session. Could I, therefore, indulge upon him to look up the Hansard where all the reasons have been enunciated. One important point perhaps he should bear in mind is that in 1976 the Housing and Development Board completed a total of 30,024 units of flats and shops. This is almost twice the number of 16.147 units of flats and shops completed by the Board in 1971. In terms of volume, this is four times the amount of building space put in. Perhaps I can just summarise for him, in general headings, what the HDB has done to prevent this complaint of poor workmanship; starting from apprenticeship schemes with the Industrial Training Board. He may have heard that the HDB has introduced a merit star incentive scheme for contractors. There is also an experimental scheme with different types of construction, such as the Danish industrial method of construction, the Australian progressive strength method of construction, and a scheme called the mental formwork. So if he really wants to know all the details, could he please refer to the Hansard. Sir, another complaint by the hon Member for Changi is that the HDB does not give clear instructions regarding regulations governing renovation of flats. This is also a general complaint made by a few other MPs. Let me state categorically that the regulations governing renovation work in HDB flats are extremely clear The procedure following the balloting of flats is that the successful applicants are given a resident handbook providing all the necessary information concerning application for permits for renovation. It also gives a list of contractors who are licensed to carry out such renovation. The majority of the purchasers of the flats have no difficulty at all in following these regulations However, there is a minority of flat owners who disregard the regulations, and therefore run into difficulties with the Board. A common example is the removal of the wall tiles and also the construction of a raised platform on the floor. The HDB has to take stringent action on this as it has resulted in overloading of the floor which in turn gives rise to a reduction of the height between the floor and the ceiling of the flat. Sir, the Member has also mentioned the concession shops at Changi. Perhaps he may want to know that out of a total of 46 shops in Changi Village which were let out solely to resettlement cases in January 1976, the rising rental is only $277 to $555. Out of the 46 shops let out, only one is left vacant. This vacant shop was open for public tender and the public tender was $750 per month. It is therefore unreasonable to suggest that the concession rentals are the cause of poor business. However, the Ministry will keep monitoring the situation. The Member for Anson brought up the question of HDB maintenance charges. I am surprised that he has raised this question because he actually spends part of his time at the HDB and he should know about the maintenance charges. Since he is not here now, I do not think I shall answer his question because I think he knows what it is all about. Sir, the next observation made by the Member for Telok Blangah as well as the Member for Punggol is on better timing of bus services to new housing estates. I think that is a valid observation. The HDB is equally concerned and, therefore, the Board has instituted a number of formal channels together with the SBS in order to plan a proper time schedule for buses serving new estates. Assistance for financially needy tenants was mentioned by the hon. Member for Ang Mo Kio. It suffices for me merely to mention that his concern is well placed, and that the HDB is helping these needy tenants in various ways: for example, giving them special consideration for hawker stalls, by informing the various CCCs and MCs and also the Social Welfare Department on their need for financial assistance. The hon. Member for Whampoa has mentioned that the HDB should be careful in selecting proper sites for hawkers. That observation is noted and I can say that that is actually being followed. Another observation made by the Member for Whampoa is on the question of designing window grilles. Here, the Board must explain that it is obviously undesirable to give a free hand in the decoration of flats to the whims and fancies of each occupier. As far as the internal surfacing is concerned, they have a free choice. But for external presentation, a certain conformity is required. If there is lack of such control in some blocks of private flats, the result is a chaotic presentation of exteriors of buildings which becomes an eyesore.

A point of clarification, Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, On this point of window grilles, I do not see how this can affect the exterior. I have looked at many private flats and they look very beautiful It is a matter of taste.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, as the Member has correctly pointed out, it is a matter of taste. And since the HDB has that authority, the taste is HDB's. Anyway, we will try to give as best a design as we can. The Member has also brought up the question of open air coffee shops. I would like to mention that coffee shops also involve the Ministry of the Environment. If more tables and chairs are allowed in the open areas, there is a possibility that they may need larger kitchens, perhaps bigger toilets, and this could lead to the problem of obstruction and to other complaints from residents or proprietors of adjacent shops. From experience, there have been such complaints in the past and even of incidents of fights, and the HDB therefore stringently observes the policy of not allowing extensions into open areas. Anyway, let me assure the Member that if any case merits consideration, it will be so given. Sir, the Member's observation on one-room flats has been ably explained by my Minister. The next lot of questions from Members is on resettlement. Here again. I am glad that the hon. Member for Jurong is not here because he is extremely persevering. He has brought up the question of bona fide farmer, every now and then. In fact. I just want to tell him that a bona fide farmer has been defined as one whose livelihood is entirely dependent on farming, and that subject has been brought up many times in the last Parliament where he had asked some questions and we had given him some replies. So I think there is no point `In labouring through all the various answers which run into three pages. The new Member for Changi has touched on the question of resettlement. He complained that the people were not properly compensated and even said that a resettlement officer actually made a commitment on the amount of compensation to be paid. If it was a verbal commitment, we are in no position to say whether it is right or wrong. But let me assure him that, as far as we are concerned, there can be no instance where, the actual compensation is different from the amount originally given in writing. If the Member is convinced that he has a case, we would be prepared to investigate. The Member also went on to complain about the unsympathetic, impatient and high-handed officials bullying illiterate rural folks by asking them to sign documents hurriedly. Here again, I can merely reiterate that resettlement officers have been instructed - and if he wants I can send him circulars to that effect - to provide all the necessary explanations and guidance to those affected by resettlement. Again, if the Member can bring to my attention any specific cases of rudeness and discourtesy, we will be happy to investigate. I think the Member should be happy with all these replies. The new MP has also brought up the question of inadequate compensation Here again, if he could bear with us and look up the Hansard of the last Budget session, when we spent a lot of time explaining the adequacy of the compensation. In fact, it touches on the resettlement of farmers who are allocated land and resettlement in housing for farmers who give up their land and who are not allowed to continue farming. So I would ask him to look up the Hansard on this matter. The Member also went on to say that the Resettlement Department is very hardhearted and that they do not take into consideration the livelihood of affected elderly farmers who have been working in the field for many years. Here again, I can simply say that farmers who qualify for land allocation are given alternative land to continue their livelihood. But for those who do not opt for alternative land, they get enhanced compensation and a free flat, or cash in lieu is given. It is the present policy of the HDB to build flats in the rural centres. These centres are close to the farming areas where employment can be found in the larger farms which are, by the way, in short supply of farmers or workers. Such rural centres can be found in Jalan Kayu and Punggol. But if the Member can justify that he has a really big farming community in Changi, perhaps he can let us know that he may need such facilities. The point raised by the Member for Kampong Chai Chee has again been answered by my Minister.

There is no answer yet.

Is the Member referring to a single person who is a citizen and is affected by resettlement and that he has to combine with another single person to qualify for priority allocation?

Yes.

Well, in fact I have the answer here. There are a large number of single persons affected by resettlement schemes and that makes it necessary to suggest that they should pair up for allocation of one-room HDB flats. Our experience has shown that these single persons who seek rehousing are often quite old and are without children or relatives, Most of them merely occupy a bunk or sharing a cubicle or room with others It is therefore more humane and indeed practical to rehouse them with other persons so as to provide them with some form of companionship and respite from loneliness and also an opportunity to share rent and utility expenses. If they cannot, then the MP concerned can always write to us and, on sympathetic and hardship grounds, consideration can be given. As I have mentioned many times before, each case will be considered on its own merit. The Member's query on permanent residents affected by resettlement has been answered by my Minister. The Member for Nee Soon has queried that in the rural areas the orchid growers and tropical fish breeders affected by clearance could not find alternative sites. In Singapore, available land for agriculture is unfortunately limited. Although tropical fish breeders and orchid growers are earners of foreign exchange, priorities for alternative land is accorded to those agricultural activities which produce food such as pig, poultry and vegetable growing. The Primary Production Department has found it extremely difficult to provide alternative sites for aquarium fish breeders due to their special requirements. They require sites with good water supply and soil conditions which are able to retain water for proper fish breeding. Such areas are extremely limited in Singapore and, if available, are normally heavily encumbered with existing farms. With regard to orchid growers, the Department is currently making available the buffer zones of the pig farming estates at Jalan Kayu for the resettlement of viable orchid growers

May I make a point of clarification? On the question of old folks finding their own "flat mates", if I may use the word, would it not be easier for them if the HDB, since the HDB knows who they are and their whereabouts, could help them to look for "flat mates", rather than asking them to look for their mates themselves.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the match-making role actually is being performed by the HDB. If the lonely old man seeks another old man, he can approach the Area Office and ask them whether or not there is any other old man interested in sharing a flat with him. This is actually being done all the time. I have promised the Leader of the House that I will finish my reply in half' an hour, and I think I can. The Member for Aljunied asked a question on the preservation of old buildings. I think this is an important observation. The Government is fully aware of the need to retain buildings of a historical value and architectural merit to serve as a reminder of our history and cultural heritage. Arising from this, a Preservation of Monuments Board was established in 1971 to preserve monuments of historic, traditional, archaelogical, architectural or artistic interests. The primary task of the Board is to recommend to the Minister for National Development the monuments to be preserved and placed under the protection of the Board. Members of the Board come from a very wide spectrum of our society and include representatives from the architecture and planning disciplines, development agencies, cultural and religious organisations and the business community. Since its creation the Minister has, on the recommendation of the Preservation of Monuments Board, gazetted eight buildings, among which are mosques, temples, churches and a medical institution for preservation. The Board is now looking into the preservation of entire street blocks, including some buildings in Chinatown. The Member for Changi has brought up another point on the Primary Production Department's ability to teach hydroponics for growing vegetables. This is not a new comment, The House was informed of the PPD's efforts to publicise the method of growing vegetables at its last sitting in November, 1976, just before the Member was elected. Anyway, may I sum it up by saying that the results of the experiments conducted by the PPD on hydroponics have been widely publicised over the last two years by the press, RTS and in publications such as the PPD Bulletin and the Singapore Journal of Primary Industries. On top of that, there is an Agriculture Handbook which is being sold to farmers and members of the public at $2.50 per copy. The handbook gives a full account of the setting up of the commercial hydroponics farm. But if the Member's constituents are interested, the Department will be prepared to organise classes on hydroponics method of growing vegetables. A few Members brought up the question of the Urban and Rural Services Committee. Both the Members for Bukit Panjang and Nee Soon complained about the inadequacy of the fund of the URSC and suggested that more money should be spent on the rural sectors. Perhaps I could merely quote that out of the 1975/76 budget provision of $3,351,920, $2,351,920 have been spent on the rural areas. This amounts to 70% of the budget for URSC. The Member for Nee Soon suggested that perhaps bigger projects, such as roads costing over $100,000, be carried out by PWD. If there is a necessity to build such sizable rural roads in the future, the PWD could look into it provided approval of funds could be obtained from the Ministry of Finance. If more such rural projects need to be done and can be justified, perhaps a more practical approach would be to request the Ministry of Finance to allocate a bigger fund for the URSC. These proposals can be forwarded to the Ministry of Finance for consideration. The Member for Punggol brought up the question of farm roads in Punggol. Here again, the main purpose of the farm roads in Punggol is obviously to provide a reasonable access to the farm holdings. These are not meant to serve as trunk roads. Although they are similar to the standard rural road, they are, in fact, five feet wider. Unlike other laterite roads, these farm roads have been reinforced with granite crusher run at additional cost. The total length of the farm roads in Punggol farm estates is about 21,730 metres. Of course, it will be ideal if all these roads could be metalled but obviously the cost will be extremely high. Because of the limited funds and other claims and priority projects, it will be difficult to metal and upgrade these roads all the time, but perhaps progressively we can consider them. and I think my earlier answer that perhaps getting more funds for URSC is the answer. Lastly, there were comments from the Members for Aljunied and Nee Soon on sympathetic or proper consideration of usage of acquired property after acquisition. The acquisition of land is, of course, a serious matter as it affects the livelihood of people who are dislocated and required to resettle elsewhere For this reason much care is taken to ensure that land is acquired only for redevelopment purposes. The exceptions are cases where the lots remaining after acquisition are too small or isolated and are not suitable for independent development. In that case it will be better to acquire them for a harmonious integration with their surroundings. Of course, despite these precautions it sometimes happen that due to unforeseen circumstances or change in Government policy the envisaged development cannot take place Fortunately, such cases are rare. Government departments and statutory boards engaged in land acquisition and development have the duty to ensure that their acquisitions are planned with great consideration in order to prevent such cases from occurring. The Member for Nee Soon brought up the question of widening of Sembawang Road Actually I have already given him a verbal reply just now - that it is actually for a three-lane dual-carriageway and that although the existing shops are not affected there are drains to be constructed on the side of the three-lane carriageway and that the drain and the road reserve would take up something like 20 feet out of 60 feet of the shop-houses. So although it is not immediately knocked down, it will be taken over by Government for such development

(In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Senior Minister of State has not answered two other questions that I have raised

I have not forgotten to answer the hon. Member for Sembawang. It is not because I have not got the answer but I thought it is not important enough to answer them. Anyway, let me reply to his questions in one minute. The matter of Tanjong Irau in Sembawang area that he referred to, unfortunately does not come under the jurisdiction of the Ministry of National Development. It comes under JTC So, would the Member please refer the matter to JTC? As to the second question about the abolition of the increase of rent from $10 to $18 for Hua Kwang School in his constituency, the primary school was acquired from the owner, with vacant possession, at a higher compensation. If the owner stays on in the premises he has to pay the rental based on the standard annual rate of 5% of the compensation. This revision in rental only applies to the owners whose properties are acquired with vacant possession. On the other hand, if the property is acquired on an encumbered basis, then there is no increase in the rent. 6.30 p.m.

Mr Deputy Speaker. Sir, in associating myself with all my colleagues in thanking our President for his Speech on behalf of the Government. I would like to take this opportunity to say a few words on some labour matters raised by hon. Members. The Members for Kallang and Telok Blangah have suggested that permanent residents should be allowed to be employed without having to apply for work permits. There are a number of reasons why the Ministry of Labour continues to require permanent residents to apply for work permits. Firstly, under the Regulation of Employment Act, all non-citizen employees and contract workers earning a monthly salary of not more than $750 are required to apply for work permits. Secondly, it is felt that from the manpower planning point of view, it is necessary for us to know the number as well as the deployment of permanent residents in the economy. I must assure hon. Members that usually permanent residents do not face difficulties when applying for work permit for their employment, The Ministry of Labour adopts a very liberal policy when it comes to issuing work permits to them. Furthermore, work permits issued to permanent residents are for two years instead of the usual one year. Hon. Members would recall also that in 1973 the Ministry of Labour made a public announcement that permanent residents who pass the appropriate skill test or who possess acceptable training qualifications will be eligible for citizenship if they satisfy the ten-year residential qualification. Holders of Singapore blue identity cards who are unskilled should therefore strive to upgrade their skill so that they can qualify for citizenship under this scheme. The hon. Member for Kallang has urged that serious attempts be made to find a solution to job seekers who are past retirement age. He has further suggested that certain light jobs in the public and private sectors be reserved for those who are old but healthy enough to work.

Sir, on a point of clarification. In my speech. I mentioned about permanent residents who are stateless persons, and not all permanent residents.

Sir, it makes no difference even if he is stateless. He is not a Singapore citizen and, therefore, according to the present law, a work permit is required of him. From CPF records, in the year 1974 there were 9,664 persons who reached the age of 55; in 1975 there were 12,820 persons and in 1976 there were 11,180 persons. Yet on the Labour Ministry's Employment Service live register, there are only 480 such people who are actively seeking employment, the majority of whom are unskilled. Out of these 480 persons, 430 are males. Apparently, older female workers are either staying with their families usefully engaged in helping their children in household duties or they have no difficulties in getting jobs. These figures suggest that quite a number of these older workers either do not want employment or do not need assistance in securing work. At present in both the private and public sectors, persons above the age of 55 years can continue gainful employment. In the public sector, although 55 years is the optional retirement age, those who are in good health and choose to continue employment, can do so up to the age of 60 years. Similarly in the private sector, collective agreements do provide for employment up to the age of 60 years. The situation does not therefore warrant the introduction of a scheme of reservation of jobs for those who are old but healthy. The hon. Member for Potong Pasir has proposed a job quota scheme for the employment of handicapped or disabled persons. Government, together with the voluntary agencies, have been actively promoting the employment of employable handicapped persons. In the job placement efforts, both the Employment Service of the Labour Ministry and the Rehabilitation Unit of the Social Welfare Department work in close cooperation with the voluntary bodies. Within the public sector, preference has already been given to the employment of handicapped persons in certain suitable light jobs such as caretaker, lift attendant, office attendant, telephone operator, tailor, typist and such like. In the private sector, the number of firms and factories willing to employ handicapped persons is increasing. A high percentage of disabled persons is being employed. Of the 4,603 handicapped persons in the working age group of 15-44 years, 1,285 are currently in gainful employment. 415 are either attending schools or undergoing vocational training geared to subsequent employment. Of the remaining 2,903, 477 are incapable of productive work, that is, they are unemployed because of severe disablement, 722 are not prepared to seek work and only a small number of 125 handicapped persons are actively seeking work and are awaiting job placement. The present arrangement of Government departments and voluntary agencies working together to assist the handicapped persons in securing employment is adequate. There is, therefore, no need for a special job quota scheme for the employment of handicapped or disabled persons at this moment of time. 6.38 p.m.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, in his policy speech, the President has timely reminded us that we must not seek to ape the life-styles and norms of permissive Western societies We must, instead, preserve our time-honoured cultural norms. values and institutions which have enabled us to withstand the onslaught of the more pernicious elements in the western culture. Of course, not all aspects of the Western culture are bad. Some are good ones and we have benefited from them and we intend to keep them even though they are alien to our society. Much of the undesirable part of the western culture is transmitted to us through the media. In both developed and developing societies, the importance of the printed word cannot be over-emphasized. Although TV can stir up thinking more quickly, it is a passing vision - it is seen, and is gone. So is sound broadcasting - it is heard and gone. However, a newspaper exerts a more lasting impact. It can be kept and re-read later on. Often its pass-on circulation is such that its impact is understated by its "official" circulation figures. Consequently, the newspaper is a powerful instrument of public education. The news media has acquired and wielded enormous power within the last two decades. In some countries, its power sometimes exceeds that of the legislature, the judiciary and the executive, through its influence on public opinion. Its enormous power can be harnessed for the benefit of society. It could also be manipulated to tear the society apart. Government in democratic countries are elected every four or five years, and they must therefore be responsive to the societies they serve. This is not so with the press as it is accountable only to its owners. In large societies, it may be possible for newspapers with conflicting views and values to balance each other out, so that no single newspaper can unduly influence public opinion. Even in these countries, it is socially and politically undesirable for newspapers to be owned and controlled by one man, or one family, as this would make it difficult for the press to be independent and impartial. In small countries where the economy or population can only sustain two or three major newspapers, the capacity of these newspapers to manipulate public opinion would be far greater Hon. Members will recall what happened to the Singapore Herald and the Eastern Sun. No long ago. efforts were made by certain foreign interests through their local proxies to soften up the ground for their own insidious purposes, namely, to gain footholds in our society. Fortunately, their plots were nipped in the bud. In Singapore, legislation exists to ensure that newspapers do not function as mouthpieces of outside interests to propagate alien philosophies and viewpoints The Newspaper and Printing Presses Act. 1974, is to ensure that public interests are safe-guarded by requiring that newspapers become public companies with Singapore citizens as directors. It is not intended to interfere with newspapers as an economic activity. Since the Act came into force on 1st January, 1975, the danger of local newspapers falling into the hands of foreign interests has been lessened. Nevertheless, the situation is still far from satisfactory, as the ownership of major newspapers remains with a small group of people In a small country like Singapore, it is undesirable to allow any person or family to have a monopolistic control of any major newspaper. In view of the great influence the newspaper has on every individual's life as well as national issues. it would be safer for their ownership to be spread as widely as possible. It is equally important to have a balanced representation in the management of newspapers. In, order to break the monopolistic control of major newspapers in Singapore by a small group of people, the Government is considering an amendment to the Newspaper and Printing Presses Act, 1974, to prohibit any person from holding either directly or indirectly through a nominee or a holding company or in other manner more than 3% of the stock of a newspaper, without the special permission of the licensing authority of the newspaper. Persons holding shares in excess of the permitted limit will have to dispose of them through the Stock Exchange. The proposed measures are not intended to be confiscatory We do not seek more control than we have now. We only seek to spread the ownership so that it reaches the small people and more people will have a say in the ownership of the newspaper. These measures are necessitated by the need to ensure that the newspapers are not merely solvent in the accounting balance sheet but also an asset in the balance sheet of national well-being I think at this juncture it would be helpful if I were to begin my reply to the hon. Member for Kampong Chai Chee and the hon. Member for Katong with the anthropological definition of "culture" to ensure that we are talking about the same thing. Culture as so defined is the sum total of the achievement and activities of any specific period, race, or people which include, inter alia, socioeconomic institutions, music, art, religious beliefs. traditions and language Singapore has inherited from the migrants who came to settle here from China, India and the Malaysian archipelago their ancient cultures. To these has been added the culture derived from western civilization. Singapore was a British colony for over a hundred years and we have inherited from the British their system of law and the Parliamentary system of Government. We feel that with such a sensitive issue as culture, the best way would be to let these inherited cultures develop within the Singapore context. While establishing cultural links with the past, we should not forget that we are Singaporeans. Thus, we have to build a cohesive, unified nation out of the disparate ethnic groups. The evolution of a national cultural identity is. therefore, part of the process of nation building. It is a task which has been put into motion some 20 years ago through our education system, our national service programme, our community centres and, not least of all, through the activities of the Ministry of Culture The evolution of a Singapore cultural identity is a long and time-consuming process. Its form cannot be laid down in advance because culture cannot be subject to direction in the same way as economic development It can only be nurtured and encouraged in an atmosphere of freedom to experiment, choose, reject, or adapt the various elements and forms that go to make up the whole. A few Members in this House have expressed concern over the young with their high expectations, their preference for soft jobs, and their acceptance of Singapore's prosperity as a norm and something which can be taken for granted. They have not experienced the hardships and sacrifices of their forebears. If we accept that culture in its widest sense means a way of life rather than merely confining it to the practice and appreciation of the fine arts, there are certain cultural norms and values common to all the three major streams of Asian civilisations represented in our plural society The moral precepts, patriotism, filial piety and traditional values such as industry and thrift are still relevant to our society. These are the values our young must acquire. and these values can only be acquired by learning and appreciating our cultural heritage At the same time, we must not overlook the fact that we are Singaporeans Only when we realise this, are we then able to provide the cultural ballast for our young through the evolution of a distinctive Singapore cultural identity based on the finest elements in our own cultures. Since Singapore is heir to four great cultural civilisations, it is thus given a rare and valuable opportunity to learn and absorb the best in all these. To deny or shut out any one of them would be to impoverish and endanger our rich heritage and narrow our range of aesthetic sensibility and experience. We must be honest enough to acknowledge that not all our traditional values and norms are desirable. We must, therefore, aim to achieve a balance between what is valuable and relevant in tradition and what is required in a modern industrial society. An admirable element of western culture is the spirit of scientific enquiry, of seeking to understand the laws of the universe, which has led to the technological advances of the West. We must learn to adapt to the imperatives of an industrial society without losing our cultural values. At the same time, we have to reject life styles and values of the West that are alien and pernicious to our Singapore society. We must not allow permissiveness, communal living, hippieism, drug taking, abhorrence for hard work and urban violence to permeate our society. To allow these undesirable elements of Western life styles into our society is to invite ruin and disaster for ourselves. Cultural "ballast" implies a firm and sound rooting in traditional cultures, but since our society is largely of migrant origin, these traditions have been inevitably weakened with time and distance. We should select and retain those cultural elements that have a broader appeal to all This would ensure that the young will not adopt those values and norms which are incompatible with our national aspirations. The awareness of our cultural past together with the forging of a distinctive Singapore identity will help provide our young with the necessary ballast against the inroads of undesirable western influence Without the Singapore cultural identity, our people especially the young are like a rudderless ship drifting with the wind But then we must not follow traditions blindly It is true that traditions and customs form part of the culture of a people. There are good customs and there are bad ones Our duty is to try to preserve and promote the good ones while at the same time keep down or do away with the bad ones. However, old customs and traditions die hard and the task to educate the people and change their way of thinking is quite difficult. It may take years or generations to change. But change we must. In this world of rapid changes it is necessary that we should adopt the policy of P'or chiu Iih hsin (destroying the old and establishing the new order). But in doing so, we should be careful not to open ourselves to accusations that we are ignorant of the good old customs, or worse still, we are trying to destroy the culture of a people. Full explanation must be given and the issue should be thrashed out thoroughly before any action is taken. The people must be made to understand why certain actions have to be taken even though some of them may not be happy with those actions. The way we handled cracker firing is a typical example. Cracker firing is a wasteful custom. Whatever merit it may have in an old agricultural society, in the Singapore environment where more and more people are living in high-rise buildings, it has become really dangerous. It has got to go. But before imposing a total ban we must give patient and exhaustive explanation. The Chinese philosophy on government is that when one governs one seldom speaks. Wei ch'erng pu tsai tuo yen. That was an old authoritarian way of government. But in our situation where we marry oriental society with western democracy, we must not only govern effectively, we must also explain convincingly. Therefore, we have suggested that instead of firing crackers everywhere and disturbing everyone, it should be allowed in controlled areas, in designated places near community centres, where the chances of people getting hurt are less. We have tried every means to dissuade the people from this age-old custom. We have even run films on cracker firing on TV, in the hope that the people will be satisfied with watching cracker firing and hearing its noise on TV. All the while, we knew for certain that nothing short of a total ban would solve the problem. And we also knew for sure that, to those diehards, no matter what we do they will not be satisfied. But then they knew that we have tried very hard to accommodate their wishes. In the end when the total ban came, no one could accuse us of being an unresponsive and an uncaring Government. And, therefore, we can have quieter sleep on Chinese New Year's eve not only because there is less noise but also because we know for certain that no one can make this into an explosive issue. Sir, had we taken the advice of the Member for Kampong Chai Chee and imposed a total ban right from the beginning without any experimentation or explanation, we would have plunged headlong into a crisis. The diehards would be angry, the common people would be confused and the Communists and the anti-social elements would agitate. And yet we are being accused of being ignorant of our culture and lack of understanding. Sir, it is precisely because we know too much and understand too much about our own culture and respect our own culture that we have to resort to this so-called "half-way house" measure in order to solve this delicate problem which involves a deep-rooted custom of the people. There is nothing wrong in it. Democracy itself is a system which is constantly devising a series of "half-way house" measures to solve the delicate problems of society. When it comes to problems involving culture. language and custom, they must be handled with tolerance, patience and understanding. Sir, these are the finer points in the art of government and if the Member for Kampong Chai Chee aspires to step into our shoes he must learn them, and learn them fast. I would like to assure the Member for Kampong Chai Chee that there is no such thing as the cancelling out game between the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Culture. We supplement each other. The only cause for him to make the allegation is that he saw a few commercial advertisements on TV not to his liking. But then everyone knows that TV commercials do not represent Government policy. My Ministry's Addendum explicitly gave the priorities of our radio and television services, namely, to inform, educate and entertain. Educational and information programmes acquired overseas and produced locally comprise 25%, the largest category of TV output. This compares with 23% for programmes which can be categorised as drama. and 9% for programmes which can be classified as music or musical variety. This percentage of educational and information programmes is among the highest in this region for the public broadcasting service.

Order. It is 7.00 p.m. now. We will continue tomorrow.

Resolved, "That Parliament do now adjourn " - [Mr Barker] Adjourned accordingly at seven o'clock p.m.