Hansard, Friday, 5 March 2021

1 Mr Leon Perera asked the Minister for Home Affairs (a) whether the Government undertakes systematic preventive measures to engage the children of drug offenders in programmes that aim to mitigate the risk of these children becoming drug offenders themselves in future; and (b) if so, what criteria or metrics are used to evaluate the effectiveness of such programmes.

Mr Speaker, I thank the Member for the question. First, we need to be clear on what are the primary causes of the drug problem which lead to children being affected.

The Member's question focuses on measures to engage the children of drug-abusing parents, to prevent them from becoming drug offenders themselves. Looking at this narrowly, from that perspective, will not give an accurate picture.

The primary issue is the trafficking and pushing of drugs in society. If we do not deal with those issues upstream, before the harm is caused, then there will be serious consequences to the lives of people and loss of children. So, we have to focus on deterring and disrupting the supply of drugs.

If we do not do that properly, the children will suffer neglect at best from their families and many will face the risk of getting into a life of crime and drugs. Downstream efforts to help the children, will really be like fighting against the tide in such situations. We are very concerned about the children and the other people affected by drugs. That is why we take a tough approach on drugs.

I will ask the Member if he agrees with the tough approach we have taken on drugs, the approach to severely punish the traffickers and suppliers responsible for this problem, if we are concerned about children, then I assume the Member will agree with us.

Let me give an example – a five-year-old boy, I do not want to name him – died after being scalded with hot water in 2016. Every year I can name you a case of such a child. Five years old, four years old, parents affected by drugs. The court heard that his mother, who had thrown the hot water on him, told the IMH psychiatrist that she had abused meth for years and that she was probably suffering from withdrawal symptoms in the days before the boy's death, because she was unable to buy drugs from her usual supplier.

In such cases I asked Members, what could have been done to save the child, which is part of the question the Member is asking. What we have done is to save the lives of thousands of such children with our focus on preventing widespread use of drugs through our very tough drug policies; probably one of the only country, if not, one of the few countries in the world that have dealt with this problem effectively.

That helps prevent such cases from happening in the first place. We could identify the problem accurately if we want to find the right solutions. I have tried to explain how we try and make sure we reduce, minimise the risks of the situation that the Member has been referring to, from even arising in the first place.

But despite all our efforts, and despite our tough laws and stance, there will be persons who will continue to abuse drugs and place their families and children at risk. In those cases, how do we help the children? The Government works closely with the community to help them. Newly admitted offenders are encouraged to participate in the Yellow Ribbon Community Project (YRCP). Under the YRCP, volunteers reach out to the families of inmates through home visits and link them up with various social support and community programmes.

They also identify vulnerable children of inmates who may require support in their education or who may require counselling and refer them to relevant community programmes. There are now more than 1,200 YRCP volunteers, who have reached out to more than 15,000 families. This is real hard work on the ground. Not glamourous, but thousands of people going, spending thousands of hours, helping.

Prisons will also refer inmates and their family members who require assistance to the Family Resource Centres, (FRCs). FRCs operate from the Prison Link Centre in Changi. They render financial assistance, accommodation and social assistance. Where necessary FRCs will refer the families to the Family Service Centres (FSCs) for further casework support within the community.

The FRCs have assisted close to 4,000 inmate families in the last two years. FSC social workers will try and review the family's risks and needs, and coordinate intervention and support across different agencies. For school-going children, FSCs will also link up with the schools to discuss their needs – the types and level of support needed by the children.

Besides FSCs, we also have youth agencies, which provide support services for children and young persons who have behaviours which put them at risk, or who require constructive engagement. These include mentoring programmes, interest-based activities and career coaching.

Then, there is the aspect of parent-child bonding. Prisons get involved in that. It provides inmates with family-centred programmes, like the Social Skills Training Programme and the Family Reintegration Programme, to equip them with communication skills, to engage their children and loved ones more effectively.

In the past five years, Prisons has provided about 21,000 programme places to inmates for this purpose. Prisons also works with various other community partners on programmes and services, aimed at addressing the impact of the parents being in jail. These include counselling, tuition assistance, parenting programmes and family bonding programmes, for example, run by The Salvation Army, Centre For Fathering and the Singapore Children's Society.

Over the last two years, 282 inmates and their families attended these programmes. The Member has also asked about how do we evaluate the effectiveness of these programmes? I think the first question is, when I lay this out, I think Members will agree that this has to be done. I cannot believe that any Member here would say, we should not do any of these or should be cutting back on these.

In terms of quantifying it, this is a very difficult to study, because there are too many factors that are outside of Prisons' control. Let me name some: how a child grows up, how a child averts the risk of a life in crime and drugs depends on family circumstances of the children involved; the social influences on the children; the willingness of the family to be fully involved and engaged in the programmes offered; also, how available the drugs are to that child, for children; the susceptibility of the family members including the children to the attraction of drugs. I can name many such factors.

So, it is not an area you can easily quantify. You have to make an assessment and go ahead and do it; as we have been able to convince thousands of volunteers to do, together with Prison's officers and NGOs which see the benefit of doing these activities.

While no specific quantification has been done, Prisons' professional assessment, based on the interactions, is that the programmes have helped the families which have a positive attitude towards receiving such help.

Prisons generally look at how the effectiveness of its various programs can be assessed. When they next assess, I will ask them to consider again whether there are ways in which some kind of measurement be done, either now or in the future because we are also talking about children growing up to be adults. So, you are talking about 20 years or so.

Mr Perera.

I did ask Mr Perera whether he agreed to the approach.

Mr Perera.

Thank you, Mr Speaker, Sir. I thank the Minister for his reply. I certainly do agree that penalties have a critical role to play to control the supply and availability of drugs, as the Minister has explained. Rehabilitative approaches and preventive and early intervention programmes, such as what the Minister has explained, also have a critical role to play as well.

I thank the Member for his unqualified support and I assume Workers' Party's position on the drug policies.

Leader of Opposition.

A good way to start the morning, Minister. Sir, I believe some years ago, the hon Member Mr Christopher de Souza filed a Motion on the drug issue, and I made a speech in that debate. It was really about acknowledging that this is a serious issue, the drug problem, especially internationally. And certainly, I would support a tough stance against drugs.

I thank the Leader of Opposition.

2 Mr Leon Perera asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs given the escalating developments in Myanmar involving the use of violence by security forces against demonstrators such as the violence seen in Mandalay on 20 February 2021 (a) what concrete steps will ASEAN take to facilitate a return to stability in Myanmar; and (b) what are the immediate and long-term consequences for the region if the situation does not abate.

3 Mr Louis Ng Kok Kwang asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs whether Singapore will consider sending another consignment of humanitarian aid to the Rohingya refugees in Cox's Bazaar, Bangladesh, since the efforts to repatriate the Rohingya refugees back to Myanmar have stalled.

Mr Speaker, may I answer Question Nos 2 and 3 together, with your permission?

Yes, please.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. It has been more than a month since the 1 February 2021 detention of Myanmar's civilian government leaders including President U Win Myint and State Counsellor Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. The situation in Myanmar unfortunately remains fraught with much uncertainty and there remains significant risk of escalation. The United Nations reported that on 3 March alone, 38 people died.

MFA has strongly advised all Singaporeans to defer travel to Myanmar at this time and we have also advised Singaporeans who are currently in Myanmar to consider leaving as soon as they can by commercial means whilst flights are still available.

I have spoken extensively on Singapore's response to these developments in Myanmar, including during my Ministry's Committee of Supply (COS) debate on 1 March. On 2 March, I joined other ASEAN Foreign Ministers via video-conference for an Informal ASEAN Ministerial Meeting (IAMM). At that meeting, the representative of Myanmar's military authorities, Mr Wunna Maung Lwin also briefed us on his account.

Singapore believes that ASEAN should play a constructive role in facilitating a return to normalcy and hopefully, stability in Myanmar, in line with the principles enshrined in the ASEAN Charter. The Chair of ASEAN issued a Statement on 1 February, the very day the NLD government was ousted. The Informal ASEAN Ministerial Meeting (IAMM) I referred to earlier, was convened on 2 March 2021. The meeting reaffirmed the practice for ASEAN to discuss important issues of common concern whenever they arise. This meeting was an opportunity to have frank and open, candid discussions, and to reflect the international community's concerns directly to the representative of the military authorities.

Members would be aware of the media coverage of that meeting. We also provided a full transcript of my intervention during that meeting.

The ASEAN Foreign Ministers urged the Myanmar military authorities to exercise the utmost restraint and to refrain from the use of lethal force against unarmed civilians. I conveyed Singapore's grave concerns over the situation in Myanmar. We are appalled by violence, inflicted by security forces against civilians. It is the height of national shame for the armed forces of any country to turn its arms against its own people.

The use of lethal force against unarmed civilians is inexcusable under any circumstances. The immediate concern is to step back from a rapidly deteriorating situation.

I called on the military authorities to seek a peaceful solution for Myanmar. The alternative is prolonged instability and to quote Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong, "an enormous tragic step back" for Myanmar.

The military is an institution in the body politic of Myanmar. In fact, the military authorities in Myanmar played a role in Myanmar’s political journey towards democracy in the past decade. It has to reach a modus vivendi with the other key stakeholders in Myanmar including Daw Aung San Suu Kyi. There remain prospects for a peaceful resolution as long as all sides can come together, engage in genuine and direct dialogue, and find a way to return to Myanmar’s democratic transition.

We thus hope that the military authorities will release President Win Myint and State Counsellor Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, so that these discussions can commence. We also support a visit by the Special Envoy of the United Nation Secretary General to Myanmar, Ms Christine Burgener, and hope that she will also be given access during her visit to Daw Aung San Suu Kyi and other NLD leaders.

Mr Speaker, if events continue to escalate, it will become even more challenging for all parties in Myanmar to achieve that essential reconciliation. If tensions do not abate, the longer term stability of our region will also be affected, with potential serious consequences for everyone. There will also be further humanitarian impact given the current severe COVID-19 and economic stresses confronting their people, and do not forget the unresolved resettlement of displaced persons from Rakhine State.

Singapore's assistance to the displaced persons from Rakhine State is on-going. Singapore has contributed over S$1 million in bilateral humanitarian aid to both Bangladesh and Myanmar. We also made contributions through the ASEAN Coordinating Centre for Humanitarian Assistance on Disaster Management.

Reflecting the generosity of Singaporeans, our private sector and community organisations have also stepped up, raising funds to provide for the material needs of those in the refugee camps.

Unfortunately, the COVID-19 pandemic last year also compromised the delivery of some of this humanitarian assistance.

It is important to resume efforts to ensure the safe, voluntary and dignified repatriation of refugees back to Rakhine State. We have lent strong support towards ASEAN's efforts to help improve the ground conditions in Rakhine State, such as through the Preliminary Needs Assessment (PNA) and the ASEAN Secretariat's Ad-Hoc Support Teams, which focused on implementing the recommendations of the PNA teams. These recommendations include priority projects, such as the supply of radio receivers to the local community, in order to strengthen the dissemination of accurate information.

We are prepared to send further consignments of aid and stand ready to support future comprehensive needs assessments once repatriation commences, so that we can be more targeted in helping the displaced persons.

But at the end of the day, the solution to both the political and the humanitarian problems lie within Myanmar itself and in the hands of its people. We hope to see an outcome that reflects the interests and the will of the people of Myanmar.

Singapore and ASEAN hope that Myanmar will succeed in its path towards democratic transition and national reconciliation. We will do what we can to support this. But, ultimately, only the people of Myanmar, including Tatmadaw, the NLD, and the diverse ethnic groups, some of whom have armed militias, only they can find a sustainable political solution that is in the best interest of their people.

We can only hope that wisdom will prevail. And despite all the bloodshed so far, I still think it is not too late.

Mr Perera.

I thank the Foreign Minister for his comprehensive reply and his clear condemnation of the situation in Myanmar. I think since I filed this question several days ago, the situation seems to to have worsened. I just have one supplementary question for the Foreign Minister, which is that at the ASEAN level, is this being monitored with a view to keeping other options open to nudge the government in Myanmar towards reconciliation, towards political settlement, should the situation worsen even further in the days and weeks ahead?

The short answer is yes and the foreign ministers are in daily contact with one another.

I thank the Minister for the reply. I have raised this issue in Parliament quite a number of times. I know the Minister is deeply concerned about the refugees as well.

Like him, I have been to the refugee camps in Cox's Bazaar and it really is suffering at a scale that is unimaginable. I met many of the children there, many of whom have watched both fathers and mothers get killed. So, I really hope and I asked MFA to consider sending another consignment of humanitarian aid this year, and that will really help the refugees that are currently in Cox's Bazaar.

Mr Speaker, as I said earlier, we would certainly consider additional assistance, but there are many obstacles. In fact, the more fundamental political and violent events occurring within Myanmar itself complicate any attempts to address this humanitarian disaster, but we will continue to look out for opportunities.

I thank the Minister for Foreign Affairs for his comprehensive answer. My supplementary question refers to two instruments: the ASEAN Charter and the ASEAN Human Rights Declaration.

In the discussions with Minister's counterparts in ASEAN, would reference be made to both those instruments and the general principles elucidated in those instruments, to have some level of forbearance over the actions of the military in Myanmar?

My view is that the actions do go against the whole tenor and principles laid down in the ASEAN Charter and the ASEAN Human Rights Declaration.

Mr Speaker, in our meetings, discussions, both formal and informal, clear reference has been made to the ASEAN Charter, and, of course, the question of human rights.

But I also want the House to have a realistic assessment of the factors at play. The history of Myanmar over the past 70 years, and I mentioned that earlier this week, is a long and tortured history of a large, wealthy talented country, unable to come together and achieve national unity, unable to reconcile differences between ethnic groups, political ideologies, between the different pillars of the political construct that is Myanmar.

Again, if you look over the past 70 years, the military authorities in Myanmar frankly do not respond to economic sanctions, do not respond to moral opprobrium. And certainly, references to the ASEAN Charter in Human Rights, whilst essential, are not sufficient to change their behaviour. So, we do need to be realistic in what we say or do. I want to emphasise that my key objective – again, perhaps, influenced by my medical background – is, first, do no harm. Do not raise false hopes, do not incite and do not encourage further crystallisation of disputes and violence.

I say all this so that Singaporeans, both within this House and outside this House, will understand that despite all our fervent and earnest hopes of reconciliation, the keys ultimately lie within Myanmar. There is a limit to how far external pressure will be brought to bear. It does not mean we approve of what they have done and how they do it, and we are clear in our expressions of disapproval. But let us also be realistic and let us hope that good sense prevails.

There are also profound lessons for us in Singapore, to count our blessings since Independence, that we have been able to come together as one people, regardless of race, language or religion. We have been able to build a democracy that functions. We have been able to reconcile differences. We really have so much to be thankful for and to count our blessings in Singapore.

Order. End of Question Time. Introduction of Government Bill.

[Pursuant to Standing Order No 22(3), Written Answers to Question Nos 4 and 6-7 on the Order Paper are reproduced in the Appendix. Question Nos 5 and 8 have been postponed to the sitting of Parliament on 8 March 2021.]

[(proc text) "to amend the Postal Services Act (Chapter 237A of the 2000 Revised Edition) and to make consequential and related amendments to the Criminal Procedure Code (Chapter 68 of the 2012 Revised Edition)", (proc text)]

[(proc text) presented by the Senior Minister of State for Communications and Information (Ms Sim Ann) on behalf of the Minister for Communications and Information; read the First time; to be read a Second time on the next available Sitting of Parliament, and to be printed. (proc text)]

Mr Speaker, may I seek your consent and the general assent of Members present to move a Motion to allow the Ministerial Statement on Review of Sentencing Framework for Sexual and Hurt Offences be taken now.

I give my consent. Does the Leader have the general assent of hon Members present to so move?

[(proc text) Hon Members indicated assent. (proc text)]

Leader, please proceed.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move, "that, notwithstanding Standing Order 91(2), the Ministerial Statement on Review of Sentencing Framework for Sexual and Hurt Offences be taken now.”

The Statement is on a matter of some importance and it would be more expedient and efficient for the disposal of Parliament business for the Ministerial Statement to be taken before the resumption of the debate on the Committee of Supply and it will also to allow sufficient time for Members to seek clarifications from the Minister for Home Affairs.

[(proc text) Question put, and agreed to. (proc text)]

[(proc text) Resolved, that, notwithstanding Standing Order 91(2), the Ministerial Statement on Review of Sentencing Framework for Sexual and Hurt Offences be taken now. (proc text)]

Ministerial Statement. Minister for Home Affairs and Law.

Mr Speaker, Sir, on 8 March, the world will celebrate International Women's Day. Our discussion today on protection of women is timely.

We have had some cases for the past few years relating to sexual and hurt offences which triggered much discussion on whether the sentences imposed were adequate.

In September 2020, last year, we started off an important broad-based conversation on the position of women in Singapore, how we can better deal with the issues they face, not just crimes but the overall position of women. That review goes beyond the law, beyond the narrow context of sexual and hurt offences.

This particular review here, which I am going to speak about, is on the context of sexual and hurt offences. Stiff and effective punishments are necessary, but they are only one part of the picture. The penalties may deter, but they are not going to remove the attitudes behind such conduct.

As a society, we must look deeper. The broad-based review will look into how equality and respect for women can be better ingrained in our society and inculcated as a fundamental value from young; and to change mindsets, tackle underlying attitudes and behavioural patterns.

We have had many discussions with various groups, many more discussions are planned and we are on track to issue the White Paper later this year. Today, for the purposes of my Statement, I will focus specifically on our approach on punishments that sexual and hurt offenders will face.

Let me start by referencing three cases.

First, in September 2019, we have the case of a 22-year-old university student who molested a woman on a MRT train. The Court gave him 21 months of probation. The probation report stated, and I quote, "good academic performance in school, highlighted his potential to excel in life". AGC appealed against probation. They did not agree that a sentence of probation was appropriate and the High Court agreed with the AGC and imposed two weeks imprisonment.

The second case was in July 2020, a 22 year-old university student caused hurt to his ex-girlfriend. He had put his hands around her neck, choking her and pressed her eye as well. He was given a 12-day Short Detention Order (SDO), 80 hours of Community Service Order (CSO) and a five-month Day Reporting Order (DRO).

The third case in July 2020, a 23-year-old undergraduate, used a handphone recorded a video clip of a female person in a bathroom. He was sentenced to a 14-day Short Detention Order and a 130-hour Community Service Order. AGC felt that the sentence was too light and they appealed, but the sentence was upheld in Court.

These cases generated public discussion. There were also other cases where male university students took videos of females in bathrooms. There was a public sense that the sentences were not adequate, questions were asked – was there more leniency because of the educational qualifications of some of the offenders?

In this speech, I will set out the Government's approach on sentencing adult offenders for hurt or sexual offences; and second, what should be the relevant factors in sentencing.

When it comes to sentencing, the Government decides on the policy, puts it before Parliament and the philosophy, principles – what we want to see in the laws, what should be the range of sentences, what factors are relevant – those are matters of policy that the Executive works on and puts before Parliament and Parliament decides. The Courts then apply these laws.

Thus, it is for the Government and Parliament to decide whether the punishments are adequate. The Courts look at the laws, the range of sentences and decide each case on its on its facts, because sentencing in the end is fact-specific.

So, when it comes to sentencing, what should our philosophy be? There are four principles that are often referred to.

First, prevention – where an offender poses a threat to public safety, the sentence should prevent the offender from causing further harm.

Two, deterrence – the sentence should deter the offender as well as others from similar behaviour in future.

Three, rehabilitation – the sentence should, where and to the degree appropriate, seek to encourage the reformation of the offender.

Four, proportionate punishment – the sentence should punish the offender according to his blameworthiness and seriousness of crime.

I will now deal specifically with sexual and hurt offences. The Government takes a tough approach on sexual and hurt offences. We have made significant amendments over the years to enhance the protection for victims of sexual and hurt offences. I have set them out in the Annex. With your permission, Mr Speaker, Sir, may I ask the clerk to distribute the Annex. Members may also access these materials through the SG Parl MP mobile app.

Yes, please. [Handouts were distributed to hon Members. Please refer to Annex 1.]

If I may carry on while that is being distributed.

In 2019, we amended the Penal Code and Protection from Harassment Act, or POHA. Under the amended provisions, those who commit sexual and hurt offences against vulnerable victims, face enhanced penalties. That would include: victims in intimate and close relationships with the offender; children under the age of 14; domestic workers; and physically or mentally disabled victims who are substantially unable to protect themselves from abuse, neglect or self-neglect.

Offenders who commit offences against such vulnerable victims are now liable for up to twice the maximum prescribed punishment.

For example, if you take the unfortunate case for the Myanmarese foreign domestic work Ms Piang – if those facts had taken place after 1 January 2020, then those found guilty could face much higher punishments.

For example, giving another example, there was a case some years ago, husband and wife abused their foreign domestic helper. The husband had slapped, punched and kicked the victim, hit her with canes and bamboo sticks and pushed her against the cabinet. The wife had slapped and punched the victim. They were convicted of numerous offences including voluntarily causing hurt under the Penal Code.

The husband was sentenced to 43 months' imprisonment. The wife was sentenced to two months imprisonment. If those assaults had taken place after 1 January 2020, their sentences are quite likely to have been higher because the penalties have been enhanced.

We also specifically made criminal acts like voyeurism, dissemination of intimate images without consent – these have become more prevalent with technology – the conduct were offences previously, but not specifically identified as voyeurism offence or a dissemination of intimate images offence.

Voyeurism, for example, previously would have been charged under insulting a person's modesty. Dissemination of intimate images, for example, would have been charged under distributing pornography. Maximum penalty for voluntarily causing hurt has been increased from two to three years imprisonment. We have also enhanced penalties under POHA for harassment of persons in an intimate relationship with the offender and for repeated breaches of Protection Orders.

Both the penal code and POHA amendments took effect on 1 January 2020 and the amendments apply to offences committed on or after that date.

In 2018, the CPC and the Evidence Act were amended. The accused and counsel were required to seek the Court's permission before questions could be asked about a victim's physical appearance, sexual behaviour, where these do not relate to the charge. We also prohibited the release of identity of victims before a complaint is made and the default position for trials is closed-door hearings when the victim testifies. We also allowed the use of physical screens to shield victims from seeing the accused when testifying in court.

Earlier in 2012, the Evidence Act was amended to remove provisions based on outmoded assumptions about victims of sexual offences. When it comes to sentencing of adult offenders who commit sexual and hurt offences, our position is that the sentences must reflect that such acts are deeply offensive to our fundamental values.

Outrage of modesty is not merely an offence that a man commits because he is tempted by the way a lady dresses. Voyeurism is not merely a thoughtless act that a young student commits in a moment of folly. These and other similar offences, whether committed against a female or male victim, should be dealt with seriously. These actions must be seen as an affront of fundamental values. There can in general, be no excuses for these offences.

Mitigation pleas based on the offender's educational qualifications or academic potential should not carry much weight. For such offences, principles of proportionate punishment and deterrence should generally take precedence over rehabilitation.

This means, if you touch a woman inappropriately without her consent, if you upload intimate images of an ex-girlfriend or any other woman; if you video record a woman showering, you must face serious consequences in law. And you should not be able to come to Court and say you have a bright future you will go far and so on. You can go far, but first serve the sentence. [Applause.]

If we make examples of some offenders, however bright their potential outlook in life, then the message of deterrence will likely be stronger. I am going to ask MOE to summarise these points and send to all students, boys and girls, so that everyone understands where we stand, and they must realise that a moment of folly can lead to very serious consequences. We will make sure our laws reflect this severity.

That said, there may be exceptional circumstances. Let me give a couple of examples. An offender, for example, may have a very low IQ, that affected his judgement as to right and wrong; or a serious mental illness that had a causal link to the offending conduct.

Relevant offender-specific mitigating factors should generally continue to be taken into account. These factors should be assessed on a case-by-case basis with due consideration given to the harm caused to the victim and the need for deterrence.

With this in mind, I will set out three steps that we are going to take now: one, increase penalties for three specific sexual offences; two, AGC will generally object to rehabilitative sentences for adult offenders who commit certain sexual and hurt offences; and three, a guide on sentencing will be published.

First, increase in penalties for three sexual offences. As Members know, I have been coming repeatedly to amend these laws and you can see that from Annex 1A. So, we have been constantly reviewing. We did a further review of our penalties for sexual and hurt offences in the Penal Code, including voyeurism, distribution of intimate images, outrage of modesty and voluntarily causing hurt.

In our view, the maximum penalties are properly calibrated for most of these offences. We have set them out in Annex 1B. There are, however, three areas where we intend to increase the maximum punishments.

First, outrage of modesty under section 354(1) of the Penal Code. From 2016 to 2020, on average, we had 1,190 cases of outrage of modesty reported each year, which is about 24% higher than the previous period of 2011 to 2015.

We want egregious cases to be dealt with more severely. We will increase the maximum imprisonment term from two years, to three years.

Next, where sexual activity in the presence of a minor takes place, or sexual images are shown to a minor between the ages of 14 and 16 years; and if you compare that with exploitative sexual activity in the presence of a minor or showing a sexual image to a minor who is between the ages of 16 and 18 years. These two offences are similar in nature to offences involving sexual communication with minors.

We will therefore correlate the penalties – increase the maximum sentence from one year to two years’ imprisonment.

Second, unless there are exceptional facts, AGC will, as a general rule, object to rehabilitative sentences for adult offenders who commit certain sexual and hurt offences.

Where adult offenders – I emphasise adult – commit sexual and hurt offences, the need for proportionate punishment and deterrence must take precedence over rehabilitation. This is a matter for the Government to decide. It is a matter of policy.

I have discussed this with AGC and AGC agrees with our view. Therefore, AGC will generally object to rehabilitative sentences, such as probation and community-based sentences, where the offenders are adults who commit certain types of hurt or sexual offences. I should add that that is the general position they have taken anyway, but they are going to be much stricter about it.

We will need to give due consideration to exceptional circumstances, which may justify deviation from this general position. We have to, in Parliament, and the Executive, and of course, AGC in court.

For example, where the facts of the case are such that rehabilitation should be the dominant sentencing consideration. Take a situation, where a first-time adult offender with an intellectual disability touches a woman. It may, in certain circumstances, better serve the public interest to impose a rehabilitative sentence with appropriate conditions, to reduce the likelihood of future re-offending, rather than to impose an imprisonment term.

Take another example, where the offender suffers from a treatable psychiatric condition that contributed to the commission of the offence, a Mandatory Treatment Order may be appropriate.

The third step that we will take is to publish a guide on sentencing in Singapore.

To better educate the public about the sentencing process, MHA and MinLaw have worked with AGC and the Law Society and we have prepared a guide on sentencing in Singapore. This guide explains sentencing process in our courts, addresses important questions of public interest like: (a) what are the objectives of sentencing? (b) what are the common types of sentences imposed by the Courts? (c) what factors does the Court take into account during sentencing? (d) how does the Court decide what sentence to impose? The guide will be published on the MHA, MinLaw and AGC websites.

Therefore, if I may summarise this part, in respect of sexual and hurt offences, based on what I have said, it should be clear that an offender will not receive a lighter sentence simply because he has higher educational qualifications, or has better prospects in life.

There is another important step that we are going to take. MHA and MinLaw have also been considering how we can achieve greater consistency in sentencing and how there can be greater public education about sentencing.

We studied the experience in other jurisdictions: England and Wales, and Scotland. We noted that the formation of a Sentencing Body that promulgates sentencing guidelines can be useful. It can enable proactive publication of guidelines to pre-empt or address areas of concern, and that can facilitate a more consultative process. And it will allow views of more stakeholders to be taken into consideration.

MHA and MinLaw have discussed with various stakeholders, including AGC, the Judiciary. We will set up a Sentencing Advisory Panel. The key function of the Panel will be to issue non-binding sentencing guidelines.

To illustrate, if the Panel decides to issue a sentencing guideline for a hurt-related offence, the Panel can set out the sentencing framework, sentencing bands, based on the twin factors of harm and culpability. The framework can include relevant aggravating and mitigating factors to be considered in sentencing.

The guidelines will be published and be accessible to the public. It will be persuasive, but of course, not binding on the Courts. The Courts decide each case on the facts before them.

We envisage that in working out the guidelines, the Panel will consult other stakeholders, where appropriate. And that will provide greater clarity to the public about the likely sentence and the relevant factors to be considered in sentencing, as compared to the current position where the legislation only sets out the maximum penalties.

It is expected to be an inter-agency Panel. It will comprise stakeholders from the criminal justice system, including Members of the Judiciary, AGC, MHA and SPF. We will give more details on the Panel later.

Let me now, in the context of the points I have made, consider again the cases I mentioned at the start of the Statement.

The first case, the one in April 2020, where the High Court overturned the initial sentence of probation and imposed imprisonment, our view is that that was appropriate and that would be the case now with the amendments.

The second case, the 22-year-old university student who hurt his ex-girlfriend in May 2019. The sentence in the case was decided in accordance with the law at the time and rightly so. Had the acts been committed on or after 1 January 2020, he is likely to have been charged under the new Penal Code provisions, voluntarily causing hurt to a victim with whom he was in an intimate or close relationship. He would have been liable for up to twice the maximum penalty. For voluntarily causing hurt, twice the maximum penalty is up to six years’ jail, $10,000 fine, or both. Because that is the maximum penalty, he would then not be eligible for community-based sentences, which by law, are only generally available for offences punishable with a maximum imprisonment term of not more than three years.

The third case is the 23-year-old university student who committed voyeurism. Before the Penal Code amendments came into force in 2020, such acts were usually prosecuted under the rubric of insulting the modesty of a woman, punishable with up to one year’s imprisonment, or fine or both. Now, with the introduction of a specific offence of voyeurism which carries double the penalty – two years’ jail, or fine – there is now also the possibility of caning.

As I said, AGC will also, in general, object to probation or community-based sentences being imposed in cases involving voyeurism offences. Offenders who commit such offences should not expect to be treated leniently.

Mr Speaker, I have set out our philosophy, a tough stance towards sexual and hurt offences.

Beyond these penalties, the criminal justice system also reflects the values of society. Such acts must be seen as penalising a gross violation of fundamental values in Singapore. The usual mitigating factors will have less force when viewed in this prism. The starting point should be the conduct should never have happened. No excuses. Offenders should expect to face the full force of the law.

Society needs to play its part as well to unequivocally repudiate sexual and hurt offences as violations of fundamental values. Collectively, with right laws and policies, and more importantly, with the right societal mindset in place, we can move towards being a society that fully lives up to our values. [Applause.]

Leader of the Opposition.

Thank you, Speaker. I thank the Minister for the Statement. My query pertains to hurt offences. I take the Minister back to the debate when the Criminal Law Reform Bill was tabled in Parliament in 2019. There was a discussion amongst Members of how voluntarily causing hurt, being a non-arrestable offence, is dealt with by the Police. Then-Senior Parliamentary Secretary who at the round-up speech confirmed that Police do look at voluntarily causing hurt (VCH) offences in some broad classes – I do not think those were closed classes. These included road rage, secret society members, fighting, racial, religiously-aggravated VCH cases. The Senior Parliamentary Secretary then in the round-up speech mentioned that, I will quote what he said, "post-amendment we can assess if there is a need to create a more expedited framework for the resolution of other types of VCH cases and if this can be done without compromising due process or compromising the delivery of Police response to other more serious offences".

I would just like to confirm whether the Ministry has considered looking at VCH offences, the section 321 type of offences, the non-arrestable offences, in a more variated manner so that we can take expedited action in the appropriate cases.

Thank you. That question actually highlights one of the more involved discussions that MHA has been having, with me involved. Let me put it this way. Voluntarily causing hurt, as Mr Singh would know, it can cover a broad ambit. Let me give a couple of examples.

You are in a supermarket. Someone goes past you and push you. Let us leave out the sexual part of it – just two men. He pushed you aggressively. That is at one level. You did not feel hurt, nothing, but he should not have pushed you. You go and file a Police report.

On the other end of the scale, could be a more serious assault which does not result in grievous hurt – because then, it would be voluntarily causing grievous hurt – but nevertheless, leaves you in a state of shock.

It is quite clear the second category — I mean, we talk about Singapore being a safe society. My position to the Police has been that those sorts of cases, you want to be able to walk in the streets, feeling safe. You need to know that if there is that kind of conduct, that will end up in court. But if you start taking every assault to court, I do not think we are doing justice as a society either. Because you will get into a detailed involved assessment of intent, cause.

I think the intent of your question then and now, Mr Singh, is that the criminal law is not the best solution for these cases. It should be dealt with through other ways, without undermining the rule of law. We agree. There are some internal frameworks for the Police to try and assess that and deal with it. If the Police try to deal every single case of police report on voluntarily causing hurt, it would be an impossible situation. And I do not think we will be better off as a society either.

So, there is a framework to try and deal with this. Of course, people who are not happy, there are other routes, as the Member knows as well; through a magistrate's route as well.

If you want more details of how we work it, to the extent that it is possible to give it, because we do not want people gaming it either, I am happy to share the details.

I thank the Minister for his Statement. I think we certainly welcome the new framework. I have spoken on this on a number of occasions and I welcome the updates. Just one clarification I seek from the Minister. In the last two years, one of the questions that was raised is, quite a number of cases relate to those who have a position of trust with the victim. Just to rattle off some recent cases: teacher molests seven boys, former Secondary school teacher abuses 15-year-old students, Secondary school teacher molests boy in school lab, Primary school teacher molests 12-year-old boy and so on. You also have, recently: male nurse allegedly molests male patient, Statutory Board director outrages modesty of female subordinate, doctor at Mt E accused of molest against a female patient.

Many of these are in a position of trust. Would the Ministry consider further enhancing the sentencing framework and increase the penalties for those who not only cause hurt or sexually abuse the victim, but start out from a position of trust, so that we ensure that such crimes where the victim already feels a sense of comfort in the presence of the person, does not fall prey to such offences.

I thank the Member for the question. I mean he reeled off a list of cases where people have abused that position of trust to molest or otherwise hurt someone close to them.

Let me make the general point first. We are a low-crime society. Societal relationships, man's behaviour with man, these things happen everywhere. I do not want people to go away thinking that, in some way, in Singapore, it is more extreme. In fact, it is much lower. It is much lower because, as I have said before – and I think Senior Minister Teo might have, too – in Singapore, a few things are quite certain. When you have done wrong, you are likely to be investigated. Second, the investigations do not usually take very long. Third, if you are guilty, you are likely to be found guilty and you are likely to face the penalties because we start off from that framework. Also, on the whole, we have a highly law-and-order-based society. People obey the laws. I think we have managed to keep the criminal behaviour to a much smaller context than many other countries do. So, we start from a position which would be of some envy to most well-ordered societies.

With that, the specific question that Mr Yam has asked, these factors are already relevant, highly relevant, for sentencing. If you are in a position of trust, if you are a teacher, that is a very serious consideration that is taken into account in sentencing. So, there will be no question in the minds of people, if you are a teacher, if you are a doctor, you are in a position of fiduciary relationship where you have control or you have oversight over the other person and you take advantage, the Courts treat that very seriously, and we have reflected that approach quite clearly.

And that is, of course, without considering, if you are a professional, the professional bodies will have something to say. For doctors, the Medical Council will follow up. So, you will face both professional consequences and criminal consequences. So, I think we ought to be quite clear that being in a position of trust is a very material – in fact, central – consideration in enhancing penalties.

Mr Christopher de Souza.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I agree with the Minister that we are starting from a position of strength. My question is in relation to the handout provided. At section 73, it says that there are enhanced penalties for offences against domestic workers, and that can be twice the maximum penalty.

My question here is really that it is good that we protect our foreign domestic workers because they are in a position of vulnerability. But I think that section 73 should be widened not just to include foreign domestic workers, but people who are in a position of vulnerability because of their employment. And that can expand beyond the FDW matrix. So, if we are, indeed, wanting to protect the vulnerable, then would a reconsideration of section 73 and the widening of it be considered in this review?

I thank Mr de Souza. I think the current position, we were quite deliberate that it should cover vulnerable victims. And in my speech now, as well as when I moved the amendments, the way we saw our society, what is happening, you have children who are vulnerable, you have domestic workers who are vulnerable and, in a fast-ageing society, you have senior citizens who are vulnerable, who are not able to take care of themselves, and you have intellectually-challenged people who are vulnerable. So, we have sought to define people in vulnerable categories; and offences against them, the penalties are much more severe. So, we have already gone down that route and the definition is quite comprehensive in terms of starting with what we mean by "vulnerable". So, all those categories I have mentioned are considered vulnerable.

We then added on another category that would not, in the usual sense, be considered vulnerable – girlfriends or people in an intimate partner relationship when they are subjected to violence. If you are in a marriage situation, the Women's Charter allows you to go and take an application, a Personal Protection Order (PPO). But if you are an unmarried partner, you cannot go and take a PPO under the Women's Charter because, by definition, it only applies to people who are married, spouses. So, we extended the protection to persons in an intimate partner relationship. So, if you abuse your girlfriend, now these enhanced penalties will apply to you, and your girlfriend can take out the appropriate orders under POHA, for example. So, we have covered vulnerable categories. But I will be happy to ask my Ministry to relook at it. But we were quite focused in the way our society was changing. Particularly, I was concerned about senior citizens who now are at homes, and elder abuse, and I felt that we ought to stiffen the law before it becomes prevalent.

Ms Sylvia Lim.

Thank you, Speaker. I have two clarifications for the Minister on what he said earlier regarding the policy that the AG in general will object to a rehabilitative sentence for certain kinds of offences. So, my first clarification on this is: is there going to be a change in the law to specifically provide that rehabilitative sentences will not be available to certain categories of offences?

My second clarification is: I think it is important also for the Minister to confirm that these moves in no way undermine prosecutorial discretion which is provided for under the Constitution. So, I would like him to confirm that, so that there is no misunderstanding on this point.

Thank you. On the first question that AG, AGC or prosecution will generally object in general, in fact, as I have said in my speech, for some time now, that has been the position of prosecution in general when it comes to sexual and hurt offences. They object to community-based sentencing or rehab-based sentencing, and they focus on deterrence and sending the message. I am re-emphasising and reaffirming that approach and saying that AGC will be even clearer in that approach hereafter.

On the second question whether this undermined prosecutorial discretion, absolutely not. I mean, as I have mentioned in my Ministerial Statement, you will have cases where individuals – intellectually-challenged, did not know what they were doing was right or wrong or on the margin – these are not matters that we can set out in broad terms here in Parliament, and AGC will have to decide, case by case, and the Courts will have to decide case by case. But what is important is that Parliament understands and affirms, and the Executive, my Ministry, puts before Parliament the Government's policy and this Ministerial Statement sets out the Government's policy for Singaporeans, which we put before Parliament that we will take a no-nonsense approach to sexual and hurt offences. Rehabilitation will not be the primary consideration. The primary considerations will be deterrence and prevention and sending the message clearly, and consistent with what I have articulated, as a fundamental tenet and value. So, it is for the Government to set out that policy. It is for Parliament to put that policy in law where it is not already in law. And I have said we will make amendments in three specific situations, and we set out what we believe should be the approach which is good for society as a whole. And that then has got to be the guidelines for AGC to apply in exercising their prosecutorial discretion. The discretion has got to have a framework to be applied; framework has got to be supplied by Parliament. And for the Courts, with their judicial independence to apply, the Courts also need a framework. So, that is the context to the Statement. Thank you, Sir.

Mr Murali Pillai.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I thank the hon Minister for his Ministerial Statement. I think his unequivocal Statement, in relation to the fact that qualifications of an offender would not matter in relation to sentencing, will go a long way to assuage members of the public that he were concerned about the sentences imposed on offenders that the hon Minister mentioned.

My clarification is on the Sentencing Advisory Council. The hon Minister mentioned that his Ministries will be looking at this. May I ask whether the remit of the Advisory Council would extend to not just offences dealing with hurt or having sexual elements, but really to the entire spectrum of offences, so that members of the public would be able to be apprised as to the sentencing guidelines and this would improve access to justice as well.

The second clarification concerns the Attorney General's role. The hon Minister spoke about the case whereby the 22-year-old undergraduate strangled and I think injured his ex-girlfriend's eye as well. I note that, in that case, actually, there were two offences that he committed. The Attorney General, or rather, the Public Prosecutor applied for the criminal trespass charge to be taken into consideration for purpose of sentencing and I also understand that there was no appeal arising from the sentence. Given that the hon Minister mentioned, in answer to the hon Member Ms Sylvia Lim, that it has been a practice of the AGC to object to rehabilitative and community sentences in relation to such offences, why then was there not an appeal? And in relation to the offence that was taken into consideration, it was criminal trespass but, as I understand, the offence was that he broke into the house of the girlfriend, and the Penal Code has an aggravated form of offence. Housebreaking is an offence for which the offence is punishable by three years' sentence. So, may I understand what is the AGC policy in relation to such matters where there is hurt in the context of a relationship?

I thank Mr Murali Pillai for the questions. On the Sentencing Advisory Panel, the remit is being worked out. I think it makes sense for the remit to be covering beyond sexual and hurt offences, and that is the intention. Precisely which offences would be covered, I do not want to prejudge that at this point.

Second, specific to the facts of the 22-year-old undergraduate, under the criminal trespass charge that was taken into consideration, this goes directly into what Ms Sylvia Lim had asked. It is really not for me to second-guess and say, on specific cases, why the Attorney General's Chambers did or did not do something. That is a matter of discretion. But let me recall or put across the facts as I remember them.

I think Mr Murali Pillai will remember. It was a case where, yes, there was a break-in but the ex-girlfriend then spent some time talking to the young man. And, in fact, took him – if I recall correctly – to a part of the house. It may well be, if I were the prosecutor, I would look at it and I will say that that is not going to be an easy case, because, yes, there was initial trespass but was there subsequent consent? So, one has got to look at the facts carefully. There can be a variety of reasons why charges are taken into consideration.

Why was there no appeal? As I said, it was dealt with in accordance with the law at that point in time. Today, we have enhanced the penalty. For example, this would have been treated like an intimate partner violence case, where the penalty would be higher. The Courts imposed a sentence that was in line with the precedents at that point in time and AGC's assessment was that it was not going to be easy to challenge. I cannot be dealing with every specific discretion that AGC exercises.

Mr Speaker, I would really like to thank the Minister and the teams from MHA and MinLaw behind this review and for hearing the voices of many young women as well as the effort to engage and review the framework. I have three clarifications.

The first, from a victim-centric point of view. Other than the intention to amend the maximum penalties for three sexual offences, will the Government consider putting in place programmes and training to better ensure trauma literacy within the criminal justice system to safeguard the interest of victims of hurt and sexual offences?

Second, Sir, the trauma on victims can be irreversible. But I have spoken in this House about going beyond second chances and I have worked with young offenders and families with people incarcerated. I know that some offenders pay for a very long time, beyond their sentence, and society includes them too. I hope the Minister can elaborate more about how the sentencing principles of deterrence and rehabilitation to prevent future incidence of reoffending are balanced in the second proposal as the range of sexual and hurt offences is very wide. What do certain offences where rehabilitation will not be considered include?

My last point. It is very evident from heated discussions online that there is significant public interest in this space. What steps are being taken to educate the public and, in particular, youths about consent and power dynamics in sexual interactions and what role can the media and public more responsibly play to elevate the conversation? I appreciate the sentencing guideline and just hope that it can be made friendly to the layman so that it is easily disseminated, for example, by social media.

I thank Ms Nadia Ahman Samdin for those questions. Let me start off with one point that I think we should all be very clear about. We can express our views set out in the Parliament through legislation – tough laws – but let us not walk out of this Chamber with the belief that the laws alone or even the enforcement of them is going to prevent all offences. No society works on that basis.

The one thing I have learned in 30 years in the law, in one way or another, is that the laws are there, the majority of the people do not need laws to keep them straight and a small minority who will be tempted, many of them will not be tempted as long as they know that the laws are tough and there will be enforcement. But there will always be, regardless of what steps you put in to prevent fraud, what steps you put in to prevent criminal action, there will always be a group that breaks the laws.

Having the laws is important for the bulk of society but let us be clear – there will be people who will break them and we will have to deal with it. That is the starting point. Whether it is laws against sexual offences or laws against fraud or laws against speeding; any of which.

With that, how do we take into account victims' interests and protect them? You have victim impact statements. They can be submitted to the Courts so that the Courts are very informed about the impact of the offence on the victim, and the emotional and physical trauma that has been suffered. I have talked about it earlier. In order to protect the identity of the alleged victim, gag orders can be made. I have given you in my Ministerial Statement a framework in such cases on how the victim could be protected from some types of cross examination, from having to face the accused, from having screens to protect them. Of course, in addition, there are Protection Orders available and Expedited Protection Orders available under the Protection from Harassment Act (POHA) and the Women's Charter, as appropriate.

We are also exploring, we are talking to the Courts about the possibility of recording video-recorded interviews of victims and then, using those videos as evidence in court in lieu of examination-in-chief. And we think that that might help reduce the victim's trauma from having to recount again in court the ordeal the person went through. We are trying to reduce the number of times a person has got to talk about the ordeal that he or she went through; usually a "she".

But when we speak about all of this, do not forget the presumption of innocence and the accused's right to a fair trial and have the allegations tested in court. So, never forget that.

Second, Ms Nadia Ahman Samdin also asked about the role of media and members of the public. In order to have meaningful discourse, you need a better understanding. To raise the level of understanding, we are, for example, publishing the guide on sentencing that I spoke about in my Statement. We are also talking about the Sentencing Advisory Panel issuing guidelines. But, of course, I think we must be realistic. Not every member is going to check out the MHA website on guidelines and read them. I think a few days ago I recall Mr Pritam Singh saying that he did not realise that I had made nine speeches. I am realistic about how many people read my speeches and visit the MHA website. But we will put it out and we will try and get people to understand. Of course, lawyers will be better informed as well.

The media, I think they play a very important role, in helping the public get a fuller and better understanding of the process and what is the framework. But I think one point to which I do not really have a solution is that individual cases, partially reported, without the full facts, tend to invoke a lot of passion, excite a lot of passion, and then people form views. We have to be careful about the cases being trialed in the court of public opinion. Or there being decisions which are pushed upon by the public with not a full understanding either of the law or the facts. Because not the full facts are out in the media most of the time. We have to allow judges to carry on and do their jobs.

But public opinion is important and for the Parliament to be aware of the public sense of right and wrong is also important because that allows us to calibrate and make sure our laws accurately reflect where the balance ought to lie. Now, we ought to decide that – in the best interests of the public. But public viewpoints and public opinions are relevant in coming to that assessment.

Ms Nadia Ahman Samdin also asked about the balance between deterrence and rehabilitation in sentencing. Most of my speech – quite a lot of my speech – was targeted at dealing with that. Again, it is for the Parliament to decide, depending on the offence, what the balance ought to be.

It should depend on age. That is why in my Ministerial Statement I spoke about adult offenders being treated more severely. You would treat a 15-year-old differently from a 25-year-old or a 23-year-old. So, we need to look those factors. We need to look at the degree of active consideration of what the person was going to do, the culpability, the seriousness of the offence.

For younger offenders, the general approach – the dominant factor – ought to be rehabilitation. Because they do not have the full maturity of adults and they are still in their formative years. The chances of reforming are higher.

But other sentencing principles, like deterrence and proportionate punishment, may take precedence over rehabilitation, even for younger offenders, where the offence is serious, the harm caused is severe, the offender in our assessment is hardened or recalcitrant, or the conditions that make rehabilitation options viable do not exist.

Say, a young offender has committed rape. The Courts may impose imprisonment and caning instead of a rehabilitative sentence like probation or reformative training, because of the nature of the offence, its severity and the likelihood or the possibility that this may happen again and other people need to be protected.

For adult offenders, I have explained, for sexual and hurt offences, rehabilitation would not be the dominant consideration unless there is a strong propensity to reform and specific factors strongly point to rehabilitation. But I have also said, "I am a person with bright prospects" or "I am an undergraduate who is going to do well in life" – those are not very relevant factors. I have been quite clear about that.

I thank the Minister for Law for that very clear statement. As an advocate to end domestic violence, I really appreciate the statements made. I have two clarifications. One on the guidelines themselves, second on the composition of this advisory panel.

On the guidelines, I understand that the guidelines are non-binding but highly persuasive. In the UK, they amended the Evidence Act to make those guidelines binding upon the courts but the courts can depart from them if it is in the course of justice to do so. But if I may offer another alternative position used in the Victorian courts, where the panel themselves can be invited by the court of appeal to provide some views before the sentencing of a particular case. I say this so that we do not shut out any possibility or flexibility to cater to evolving societal needs and specific individual cases.

On the second part, the composition of the panel, I ask the Ministry to consider a diversity, both in terms of gender and also expertise. In the UK, it is about 60% women but also entirely made up of legal professionals and judiciary. But in Victoria, it is about 50% women but comprising victims, crime support advocacy groups and also criminal justice professionals. Perhaps the Minister can see whether the Ministry can consider such diversity in the panel.

On Mr Zhulkarnain Abdul Rahim's two questions, and as to whether the panel can be invited to give views, we will give consideration but the situation in Singapore is slightly different from Australia. Let me explain why.

This is a relatively small place. The panel will also have judges. First off, it would look a little odd that judges appear before judges to give their views.

So, the composition that we are thinking of will have judges, practitioners, lawyers certainly, appointed by the Law Minister. The way we are thinking of, MinLaw might appoint two. Who those two persons will be, we will decide on whether it needs to be from the Bar or from other places. Other stakeholders will be involved.

A sentencing guideline issued by such a body, would be as I said, highly persuasive. It will be widely known across the legal and judicial circles. And I think that it helps us put up a framework beyond the legislation. Whether you need to go further, we can look at things as they evolve, but we also need to be careful how we structure it.

Second, I know, its a buzzword, diversity. I am a believer that you appoint the appropriate persons to the right job. This requires expert viewpoints. The guidelines from the panel must carry weight. It must have gravitas for judges to take it seriously. That does not mean that you cannot take in the viewpoints of a variety of people interested in this matter. NGOs will have interest, others would have an interest, people who want specific laws or specific types of penalties to be changed will have an interest. And you must appoint a panel that is open to hearing all these viewpoints. But the panel must have the expertise to make an assessment based on the law and what makes sense, and put it across. Open-minded, but an open mind is not an empty mind. It must also not absorb whatever nonsense that comes up. It must be able to assess what makes sense, what does not make sense, make an assessment, give guidelines that would carry authority and respect.

Who can provide that? There are many who have viewpoints. They will all be welcome to give their views. By necessity, the panel will not be a very large panel and there will be limits on how many people can be there. There is, in principle, no disability imposed on people, but I do not think we should run after this with diversity as a primary goal. The primary goal must be a sentencing body that would carry respect. In terms of gender diversity, I do not think Mr Zhulkanain or Members need to worry. That is something that my Ministry will keep front and centre, and even if we did not, I think more than half the profession are women anyway. So, you will expect that to be reflected in the panel.

Mr Speaker, we welcome the Government taking a tougher stand on sexual and hurt offences, and we also support the position that the offenders' academic achievements should not be a factor in sentencing.

But I do have a clarification though, on the Sentencing Advisory Panel. While it says that this panel's decisions will not be binding on the Court, it does create a situation, if the Courts were to deviate from the guidelines issued by this panel, it does create a situation that requires an explanation and therefore could create some pressure.

So, my question is, how does the Minister address the concern that this could be viewed as the Executive arm going into an area that has traditionally been under the Judiciary, and could this potentially compromise the independence of the Judiciary in the area of sentencing?

I am having difficulty following the question. But perhaps can I ask Ms Poa, in principle, does she support the setting up of a Sentencing Advisory Panel? Then, we may be able to discuss further.

I am afraid that I will not be able to answer that question because I need clarifications on how this sentencing panel will influence the Judiciary. My concern is actually about whether it would compromise their independence.

I think Ms Poa understands what I am asking, but she does not want to answer.

Why should it compromise the independence of theJudiciary? First of all, I said more than half the members would be from the Judiciary. Second, the purpose is guidelines for the future without referring to any specific case. Just like here, we are discussing what the laws ought to be. Do we compromise the independence of the Judiciary by doing so? Do we compromise the independence of the Judiciary when we set out in the law, what the punishments ought to be? Maximum, minimum, sometimes we say mandatory? Those decisions are made, that is a framework in which the laws are applied.

The guidelines are guidelines which will flesh out a little bit more. And it is for the Courts and the judges in the individual cases to decide whether the guidelines need to be departed from or need to be applied. How do the giving of these guidelines, how do the guidelines that the Courts have internally, how does any of this compromise the independence of the Judiciary? On Ms Poa's reckoning, the judiciaries in Australia and UK are no longer independent. May I have a view, please?

The range of sentencing will be actually specified in the law. And within that, the Courts then mete out individual sentences for each case. But so how does this Sentencing Advisory Panel add on to what is in the law? How does it further restrict? I need further clarification on how it will work.

I think I have tried to explain this a number of times. Let me make a further attempt. The law sets out maximum penalty – four years, five years – for such an offence. The law cannot, if you look at the legal provisions, go into much more detail than that. Sometimes, you can have illustrations, you can have some examples. And the Second Reading speech tries to flesh it out a bit more.

But a Sentencing Advisory Panel looking at different types of cases can set out, flesh out a little bit more, in non-binding language in cases that fall into this sort of factual matrix involving offenders above a certain age, involving this type of offence. Generally, we think the range of sentences, our view is that it should be between this and this. That is what the Sentencing Advisory Panel can do. And as I indicated, more than half of the Sentencing Advisory Panel will comprise judges anyway. It is bringing together a combined wisdom to set out a framework for how cases can be dealt with and it is aid for the individual judges faced with individual cases and applying the law and the guidelines to the specific facts to see whether the facts come within, should it fall within this range or there are facts which take it out.