Hansard, 1972-03-20

Under the provisions of clause (2) (d) of Article 30 of the Constitution of Singapore, IU have granted permission to the following Members to be or to remain absent from sittings of parliament to which they have been appointed) for the periods stated:- Mr Lee Kuan Yew (Tanjong Pagar), Prime Minister - from 20th to 24th March, 1972. Mr Fong Sip Chee (Stamford), Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Labour - from 20th to 28th March, 1972. YEOH GHIM SENG Speaker, Parliament of Singapore

The following Bill was assented to by the President of the Republic of Singapore on the date stated:- 20th March, 1972 Telecommunication Authority of Singapore Bill. YEOH GHIM SENG Speaker, Parliament of Singapore

Order read for resumed consideration in Committee of Supply [2nd Allotted Day].

2.31p.m. Head 0701 -

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0701 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*.(* The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs Yeo Choo Kok, Ho See Beng and Seah Mui Kok.) Sir, in the last Budget session, I spoke on staff shortage in the Telecommunications Department of the Ministry of Communications. Let me quote what I said on the 19th March last year [Hansard, Vol. 30, No. 13, col. 889]: `... we have a very serious shortage of staff in the Telecommunications Department. The employees in the operational side of the department work day in and day out without obtaining any time off for rest days and public holidays.' Sir, last year, the International Telegraph Section of the Telecommunications Department alone owed the staff for the period June 1969 to January 1971 a total of 30,000 hours for working on rest days and public holidays. The Department owed the messengers 11,500 hours, clerical assistants 5,600 hours, and counter clerks 1,500 hours. I also mentioned then, Sir, the fact that messengers were put on duty without a single day of rest for several weeks at a stretch. They worked for half a year without any rest days or public holidays. I also mentioned the fact that there should not be any problem at all in recruiting clerical assistants, counter clerks and messengers because they are not highly skilled persons. Let me now quote to you, Sir, what the Minister told this House then, and I quote from the same Hansard, col. 892: `I am very pleased to say that for the first time the department is well ahead on recruitment. The Public Service Commission has just completed an exercise to recruit over 250 Telecommunications clerical assistants and technicians. This will wipe out the present vacancy position as well as fill the 159 new posts now coming up for approval before the House. The department should be able to have a full complement of staff by May this year.' That was the reply last year. And he continued: `A crash training programme is being arranged which will enable the new staff to be trained and put into operating position some time in August. It is anticipated that the long overdue time off can be granted thereafter. It is likely that 24 vacancies in the vote for telegraph messengers will be filled by June, by which period time off for messengers can be granted thereafter.' Sir, I will relate also what actually is the position today. It is strange, but true, that although the Minister for Communications assured me on 19th March last year that the loyal and dedicated staff of the Telecommunications Department would not again be faced with an enormous accumulation of time off, for this year, i.e., from March 1971 to February 1972, the figure stands at 45,000 hours owing to the staff in the department. Sir, the workers in the department cannot be treated as cogs in the wheels of the department. They should be given justice. It would seem odd indeed that such a situation exists in the Telecommunications Department since, as the Minister intimated last year, the Public Service Commission had just completed an exercise to recruit over 250 Telecoms clerical assistants and technicians and that the 24 vacancies for telegraph messengers would be filled by June. Sir, what has actually gone wrong? Was the recruitment done? Were the people recruited at all? My firm suspicion is it has broken down. Let us hope not. The department is expanding with greater demands for higher technological Telecommunications. Rapid advancement has been achieved with the installation of the satellite earth station and the expansion of the telex service. But to keep pace with this rapid development in the department, staffing should also be increased commensurate with the development. Sir, progress, cannot be achieved without adequate, contented, and well-rested staff. May I suggest that the Minister radically revises the present situation existing in the Telecommunications Department to ensure that the defects are remedied without prejudice to any better provision which may exist or may be negotiated by the N.T.U.C. Sir, now that the Telecommunications Department is to be made the Telecommunication Authority of Singapore from 1st April this year, will this improve the situation at all? I have my doubts. Another statutory board, the Public Utilities Board, has similar problems of overtime and staffing. Do I have to come back again next year and make the same plea on behalf of the workers of the Telecommunication Authority of Singapore? An hon. Member: Will you be here next year?

I will be here next year!

Mr Speaker, Sir, it does appear to be a repeat performance on the part of the Member for Telok Blangah in respect of the Telecommunications Department. He has asked whether anything has gone wrong with the Telecommunications Department. The answer is: nothing has gone wrong. It is only that the growth of traffic has been more than normal. Because of the very rapid expansion and demands from the commercial public, the Telecommunications Department could only meet this abnormal demand by involving the staff in overtime. He has quoted passages from Hansard in respect of the previous year's Budget. Vacancies then were being filled. The Public Service Commission did interview the candidates concerned, and it is normal for applicants to be interviewed around February-March when the results of the Secondary IV examinations are known. I think that is normal procedure. So once again in February-March this year there would be another recruitment of staff to fill any vacancies. But may I, in reply, provide some figures too, for the benefit of the hon. Member? At the beginning of the last financial year, there were 166 vacancies for operational staff and 57 vacancies for technicians, which represent a vacancy percentage of about 20 per cent and 16 per cent respectively. It is very high, and I think it is unfair to the workers on the establishment having to work overtime to fill this gap. 174 operational staff and 51 technicians were recruited during the year. That would have virtually filled all the vacancies, but unfortunately with recruitment there were also resignations or retirements. There was a staff reduction of this nature by as many as 67 operational staff and 25 technicians (the word "wastage" was being used), leaving us with 59 vacancies - 4 operational staff and 31 technicians - waiting to be filled. This represents a reduced rate of vacancy percentage at only seven per cent and nine per cent respectively. I think if we compare with the previous `year's rate of vacancy percentage of 20 per cent and 16 per cent, we can say that there has been an improvement in the situation. However, selection of candidates to fill these remaining vacancies has just been completed, and it is envisaged that most, if not all, of the vacancies for operational staff and technicians, will be filled shortly. The Member has partly answered his own query when he touched on the establishment of the Telecommunication Authority of Singapore in 10 days time. The Telecommunications Department which is now part of a Government Ministry will be converted into a statutory organisation, and one of the reasons why we are converting it is to give it more flexibility in the recruitment and employment of staff. It may not be necessary, for example, to recruit staff annually. The new Authority will be in a position to recruit staff as and when it, is necessary and to decide on the salary scales, bearing in mind the Government salary structure and terms and conditions of service. As a statutory organisation, it will certainly be able to move much more quickly in dealing with overtime problems like we have now. With regard to overtime, may I say that the position is not as bad as that stated by the Member, who quoted the figure of thousands of hours of overtime due. Time-off, which was earned and accumulated up to 31st December, 1970, has been converted to leave, and such leave was commuted to overtime pay at normal rates of salary. So money has been paid for overtime which has been accumulated prior to that date. But from 1971 onwards, the accumulation began to build up once again and this will have to be adjusted at some future date. However, I can assure the Member for Telok Blangah that it will not be necessary for him to repeat a third performance at the next Budget. 2.45 p.m.

Mr Yeo Choo Kok.

I am not speaking. Sir.

I am not speaking, Sir.

Mr Seah Mui Kok is not here. Mr Govindasamy.

Sir, on the assurance of the Minister that the Telecommunication Authority will do better than the Telecommunications Department, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $421,700 for Head 0701 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0703 -

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker. Sir, I beg to move. That the sum to be allocated for Head 0703 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*.(* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy.) Sir, under this subhead, I would like to touch on two matters relating to the Paya Lebar Airport. I hope the Minister will pay special attention to them because of certain complaints I have received. The first complaint is that the officers of the Immigration Department at the Paya Lebar Airport are not very efficient. The number of porters at the Airport is also too small. There is a need for more porters. Being an international airport, the traffic has been increasing every year. At present the number of passengers is nearly two million a year. This shows that more and more travellers are coming from abroad. Therefore, we must extend the highest standard of service to them in order to impress them, so that they will spread our good reputation abroad. I understand that the Government has made provision for a few million dollars for the development of Paya Lebar Airport, which includes the extension of the runway and the building of a new hangar to accommodate the Boeing 747. This type of passenger air liner requires the redevelopment of the Passenger Terminal Building. In view of all this, we hope that our civil aviation services will reach international standards, which, I think, is the aim of the Government. We should maintain a reasonable standard of service. Therefore, all the staff at the Airport, including the staff of the Immigration Department, should provide an efficient service. They should be courteous to the tourists, so that those coming from abroad will have a better impression of Singapore. However, Sir, I regret to say that recently I have received some complaints from members of the public to the effect that the staff at the Paya Lebar Airport were rather slow in rendering their services. For instance, air travellers have to take two or three minutes, and sometimes even up to five minutes, to be cleared at the Immigration counter. If there are 100 passengers arriving, how long will that take to clear? It may be that they are too busy. I have also received complaints that some of the staff on duty used to crack jokes among themselves. They are thus wasting their time and prolonging the waiting time of the passengers. This is uncalled for, and I would like the Minister to look into this matter and take measures to remedy the situation. There are also complaints about the shortage of porters. According to my information, there are only three porters to cope with more than 100 passengers. Obviously this number is not enough. If at times the porters are weak, the luggage will be thrown about because they cannot carry them. They are not able to cope with so many passengers. I have to bring all these complaints to the attention of the Minister because the number of tourists is increasing and our Government is spending a lot of money on civil aviation, particularly in the development of the airport. We should see to it that our civil servants there render a high international standard of service.

Mr Speaker, Sir, there is only a limited staff at the tax-free store for passengers at the Transit section of the Paya Lebar Airport to cope with the present increased passenger load. Can the Airport authorities look into this matter to increase the staff of the store? What measures have been introduced at the Airport to prevent the hijacking of aircraft, now that hijacking has become a popular sport for neurotics and political desperadoes? If there is any special device, is it used to check on all the passengers? Are there any measures for all passengers to go through a screening device? What plans have been made for the use of Changi Airfield now that the British troops have withdrawn? Can the facilities available at Changi be considered for use in conjunction with Paya Lebar Airport, so that it forms an extension of the Airport services, particularly for chartered flights?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would just like to comment on the Member for Sembawang's allegation with regard to the slowness of the Immigration counter officers at the Airport in clearing passengers. Perhaps, if he would care to go to the Arrival Lounge in the new Passenger Terminal- I believe it is upstairs - he would be able to see a few counters where several Immigration officials are at work. I once had an occasion to visit this Terminal Building, and saw quite a good number of passengers coming through the Lounge. Judging from the speed with which Immigration clearance was made, and this is based on personal experience, I think the Member is exaggerating when he says that it takes two to three minutes, or even five minutes, to clear each passenger. However, he is more or less correct in his remarks about the Customs and Excise counter, because over there the passengers upon arrival will have to declare themselves, and for this reason there may be a little delay. I hope my clarification will help the Minister for Communications.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am always grateful to Members sitting on the Opposite bench, answering on my behalf. It does help now and again to have your ball at the other man's foot. May I now refer to the point raised by the Member for Sembawang regarding complaints against the Immigration Department. Strictly speaking, this is something not within my portfolio. Immigration Department comes under the Ministry of Home Affairs, and my colleague, who is the Minister, is having a good laugh behind me. It is quite likely that the complaints received by the Member were in respect of persons whom the Immigration Department were quite interested in and, therefore, probably a little longer time was taken before they could be cleared at the Arrival Hall. However, the Airport does provide adequate facilities for the Immigration Department. In our view, ever since the completion of the short-term development of our Airport costing $10 million, the floor area in the Passenger Terminal Building has been doubled from over a hundred thousand square feet to 270,000 square feet. The clearance facilities for passengers in respect of Health, Customs and Immigration have, therefore, improved. For the information of the Member, there are six triangular counters corresponding to six channels at the Arrival Hall for Immigration authorities to process arriving passengers simultaneously. In addition, there are two other counters behind the main Immigration counter to be used for checking arriving passengers who have no documents or whose documents are improper. Probably these are the people who have been complaining to the Member. If they had the proper documents, it would have been very simple for them to gain entry into Singapore. In our view, these eight Immigration counters are adequate to cope with passenger arrivals even during the evening peak period. As regards the complaint about baggage handling, which is under my portfolio and for which I am responsible, the problem has probably arisen because there is more than one organisation handling the baggage. It is our intention to have one Baggage Authority in the near future. Anyway, may I say that even at this moment, there are four different organisations handling the baggage. Firstly, the Malaysia-Singapore Airlines handles baggage of more than half of all the airlines that come into Singapore. There are, in all, 24 international airlines. M.S.A, handles at least one-half the number of airlines' bag-gages. The others are Pan-American, Garuda and, lastly, the Civil Aviation Department. 3.00 p.m. The Civil Aviation Department handles seven airlines. Sir, if there is one authority, we do agree that it would be more efficient. We know exactly who is responsible. But when an aircraft comes in and four authorities have got to find out which one of them is responsible, inevitably some delay is involved. Whatever it is, after the $10 million short-term development of the Airport, we now have at the Arrival Hall five conveyor belts for the conveyance of baggage from the ramp to the baggage claim area. In our view, these five conveyors are adequate to cope with the demand at peak periods. The time taken for the baggage to be transported to the Arrival Hall at the Airport depends on the handling capacity of the airline or agent, which is responsible for it, and also the number of aircraft that lands at any one given time. If there were four landings within the space of half an hour, then of course there would be a big jam. It also depends on the location of the parking bays where the aircraft are ultimately parked. Anyway, may I say that normally baggage should be available for claiming in the baggage claim area within five minutes after the arrival of the aircraft which, I think, is a very good time. And this is the normal handling time undertaken by the Department of Civil Aviation for the seven airlines which it is in charge of. Coming to the question raised by the Member for Anson, he understands that there is not enough staff for the tax-free store in the Transit lounge. This matter will be conveyed to the Department of Civil Aviation to see that the store does provide adequate staff. May I add, Sir, that the stores at our Airport are doing such good business and, believe it or not, the rental for a store is not less than $40,000 a month, or half a million dollars a year, because we have at least two million people -as many as the population of Singapore-using our Paya Lebar Airport. If the concessionaire is able to pay half a million dollars in rent for a store in the Airport, he will see to it that there are more than adequate staff to handle the business because more staff means more business, and ultimately more profits. The Member also raised the problem of hijacking of aircraft. As you know, Mr Speaker, Sir, we have passed a Bill sometime ago to enable the Government to comply with the so-called Tokyo Convention, which takes strong measures against hijacking. I believe our staff in the Department of Civil Aviation is quite wide awake to this possibility and, together with the representatives of international airlines, they are taking all steps to ensure that maximum security is maintained. Sometimes it may bring about some delay to passengers leaving or arriving at our Airport. I hope that if Members get complaints in future, they will understand that it is not because we are a little sticky about security, but because we have to be a little longer on the ground rather than something to happen up in the air. Lastly, the question whether or not Changi Airport can be used as an extension of Paya Lebar Airport for charter flights. Sir, there is a possibility that Changi Airport may be reverted to civilian use. It is now being reserved by the Ministry of Defence. They want it as a military airport. But there is no reason why Changi Airport may not be partly used for civil aircraft if air traffic continues to increase. May I say that, at the present moment, Paya Lebar Airport is not fully stretched. The present traffic is equivalent to about 40 per cent of what it can take. As and when it does come close to 80 or 90 per cent, then perhaps we can divert some of the chartered air flights from Paya Lebar to Changi Airport. But should it be necessary for Paya Lebar Airport to be closed, we do have arrangements whereby aircraft are advised to land at Changi Airport instead. So there is really no problem to use Changi Airport as an extension of Paya Lebar Airport, as and when the necessity arises.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, is it the opinion of the Minister for Communications that what I have said does not exist? In any case, if the Minister has the time, or his Parliamentary Secretary if he has no time, he should investigate into this complaint. If there is no truth, then it is all the better. But if there is some truth, then there must be some improvement to our services. It is my hope that our high standards will be maintained. However, in view of the explanation given, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Hwang Soo Jin-

Amendment (2), Mr Hwang?

I am not moving, Sir.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0703 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1371*.(* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Cheong Yuen Chee.) Sir, if my understanding is correct, Simbang Aerodrome was taken over by the Government from the British Forces. My queries to the Minister are: (1) where is this aerodrome sited, and what does the Government propose to do for its future use? (2) if it is to be used for civil aviation, for which a sum is provided, what type of aircraft will be allowed to operate in this aerodrome? and (3) why are only fire-fighting services stationed in this aerodrome, instead of an administrative set-up? Will the Minister clarify, please?

Sir, I would like to inform the Member for Mountbatten that Simbang Aerodrome is a military aerodrome situated in Sembawang, and was vacated by the British Armed Forces. That being so, it came under the control of the Ministry of Defence. However, at the request of the M.I.D., the Department of Civil Aviation is responsible for providing the fire-fighting services, both at Simbang Aerodrome and the missile base. As regards the type of aircraft that will make use of Simbang Aerodrome, I assume that it will be military aircraft, and not civil aircraft. If more interest is shown, perhaps the Member can inquire from the Ministry of Defence officials.

Sir, in view of the explanation given by the Minister, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Ng Yeow Chong-

Amendment (4), Mr Ng Yeow Chong.

I am not moving, Sir. The sum of 59,704.180 for Head 0703 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0704 -

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0704 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001. Sir, now that Singapore has built a satellite earth station in Sentosa, may I know if the Meteorological Services Department is keeping up with the latest in weather forecasting, if such facilities are available? If the Department says there will be no rain today, but it does rain, then they are incorrect. They should have more forecasting stations in order to give better information to the public.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I think the comment made by the Member for Anson is that there is rain today but our Meteorological Department says there is no rain. This is not something unusual in Singapore. It happens in the best of cities. If you take a newspaper and the weather forecast says "No rain", it means, bring your umbrella! He has, however, mentioned the fact that since the Telecommunications Department is reasonably up to-date with the satellite earth station, should not our Meteorological Department also keep pace with technological advances? Sir, I wish to assure him that our Meteorological Services Department is reasonably up to scratch with international requirements, because it falls on the Department to provide meteorological services for civil aviation as well as for shipping. And they have to conform to international standards stipulated by the World Meteorological Organisation as well as the International Civil Aviation Organisation, so that constant efforts are always being made by the Department to ensure strict observance of these international standards. To cope with the new development in meteorology and to provide improved quality of service, the Department has, over the past three years, acquired a number of sophisticated meteorological instrumentation. This includes a ground satellite station to receive meteorological data from orbiting satellites, as distinct from the telecommunication satellite. There is also a 10-centimetre radar at Paya Lebar capable of detecting storms within 400 kilometres from Singapore. There are also two other weather radars of lesser range at Changi and Tengah Aerodromes, and a new wind-finding radar and telecommunication equipment for the prompt reception of computer-produced weather charts from overseas meteorological stations. The Department also supplied a large volume of climatologically information to commercial and scientific organisations and Government departments for their varied purposes such as factory siting, off-shore drilling operations, engineering construction and also air pollution studies. 3.15 p.m. During the North-east monsoons, warnings of prolonged and heavy rainfall likely to cause flooding are broadcast over Radio and Television. Furthermore, a daily weather outlook forecast has been issued to the press for publication since 1970. The compact size of Singapore, the absence of distinct seasons - we have perpetual summer, we do not have the four seasons in Singapore - and the character of local tropical weather, all these factors necessarily impose a limitation on the accuracy of this daily forecast. So it could be "Fair weather this afternoon", but it rained before 12 o'clock. What could we do?

In view of the explanation given by the Minister, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $1,535,660 for Head 0704 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0705 -

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0705 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*. (* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy) The total vote for Postal Services this year amounts to more than $22 million, showing an increase of over $400,000 as compared to last year. This means that an increase of population and the development of commercial and trade services have caused an increase of mail in Singapore, thereby increasing the workload of the Postal Department. Undeniably, the Postal Services Department in Singapore has all along enjoyed a reputation of high standards, it provides very good service to the people of Singapore and is a source of our pride. However, following the increase in population and of requirements and a shift in population, the degree of efficiency has been affected. As a result of this, I have received several complaints recently against delays in the delivery of domestic mail. It normally takes about two to three days to deliver a letter locally. This is quite true, because I have some personal experience. For example, a certain friend of mine rang me up one day and asked, "Have you received my invitation card?" I told him, "No". In reply, he said, "Strange! This invitation card was posted some three days ago." Sir, this is quite a frequent occurrence, and 1 believe that other Members of this House may have a similar experience. Since there are signs of a lowering of standards of efficiency, we must try to find a remedy. This cannot be dismissed as a small matter and allowed to deteriorate. It will be a wrong attitude to adopt. What has caused the low standard of our Postal Services recently? Is it because of shortage of staff or poor allocation of duties? Or is it because of traffic congestion which causes delay to postal delivery? If it is a question of traffic congestion, it is within the portfolio of the same Minister. I would, therefore, ask the Minister to explain and to find ways and means to remedy this situation. The next point I wish to raise is the matter of wrong delivery of mail. I have on several occasions received letters, or even Public Utilities Board bills, addressed to other people. So I have to perform the duty of a postman to return these mails and letters. I think this wrong delivery happened because the postmen are careless in their duty. 1 have come across postmen who are mostly young people. The Department concerned must urge these young postmen to be more careful in the delivery of letters, instead of sending Paul's letter to Peter. If it is an important letter that is wrongly delivered or a love letter sent to the wrong person, then it will create a lot of misunderstanding and difficulty on the part of the recipient. It may even cause the separation of a couple. I, therefore, hope that the Minister in charge will take immediate steps to remedy the situation and to reduce instances of wrong delivery of letters If this can be wiped out entirely, this will be all the better.

Mr Speaker, Sir, before I raise the point of my amendment, I would like to touch on the criticisms of the Member for Sembawang regarding the delivery of letters by postmen. There is no doubt that I also have to draw the attention of the Minister for Communications to this matter. The Minister had taken very serious measures for the reorganisation of the Postal Department. It is most probable that during the reorganisation, deliveries were delayed, or letters wrongly delivered. So because of reorganisation, I can accept the complaints. But today I do not think I can accept complaints of delayed delivery because some postmen are using motor cycles, which makes for fast delivery. Formerly you would get your letter at about 10 o'clock. But now when you get to your office at 8.30, you will get your letter at 9 o'clock. `this delivery service is going on very smoothly and efficiently. I must congratulate the Minister for Communications for taking such serious action to reorganise the Postal Department. But I have to ask the Minister now about the use of the warehouse in Nelson Road as a sorting section. What action has he taken to alleviate the very poor conditions that the workers are experiencing? On a hot day the heat is so great that it is like an oven. Could the ventilation system be improved with, say, the provision of some fans and make openings in parts of the warehouse as windows? The workers' health is in danger all this time, and the conditions are made worse by a film of dust settling around the warehouse. Around the Maxwell Road postmen's quarters, the common bathroom and lavatories are very filthy. I wonder whether the Postmaster-General will consider recruiting an attendant, as has been done previously, to maintain the toilets of these quarters. Sir, we are having campaigns against pollution and we are also talking about keeping Singapore clean. But yesterday when I went to the postmen's quarters, I saw that everything was very bad. The lavatory is very ugly, and in the bathroom some of the window panes are broken, and the chicks are worn out. At the backyard, nobody has been sweeping it, not like before when there was one attendant appointed to sweep the quarters. Even in the estates of the Housing and Development Board, there are people to sweep the flats. Why does the Postmaster-General not employ one man to sweep and clean the common lavatory and the common staircase? This is very bad for the postmen who are living there. If you go to the personal quarters, it is very clean and decent, but outside, just because it is common property and used by everybody, nobody wants to take the trouble to clean it. You must have one man to look after it. Therefore, I ask the Minister, without any previous notice, to please visit the Maxwell Road postmen's quarters, and to take the necessary remedial action on this matter.

Mr Speaker, Sir, having complained about the Telecommunications Department, I think I must stand up this time to compliment the Ministry on the vast improvement in the postal services. I am sorry that I cannot agree with the views of the Member for Sembawang. Sir, if you will remember correctly, during the last Budget debate, I spoke on two aspects of postmen. One was the uniforms which were not only unattractive but also unsuitable for the climate of Singapore. You will notice that the postmen are now on a smart turnout. Let me take a little credit for that for having criticised the uniforms of postmen last year. If you remember, Sir, I also mentioned the problem of providing postmen with faster vehicular transport. That also has been done. Now, I see postmen in rural areas, as the Member for Anson said, using scooters resulting in faster delivery. There has been vast improvement in the Ministry of Communications, if not in the Telecommunications Department, then in the Postal Department. Let us congratulate the Ministry on that.

Mr Speaker, Sir, it looks as if it would not be necessary for me to answer the criticisms by Members. I would like to say that if there has been any improvement in the Postal Department, credit is due to the Backbenchers of Parliament because, arising out of their strong criticisms, action was followed up. Therefore, I would appreciate it if Members have constructive criticisms, could they please direct them not to the Member for Sembawang, but to pass them on to me, because there is a lot of work to be done. The complaint of the Member for Sembawang that there are two or three days' delay in the delivery of local mail does not appear to be justified, because there are two other Members who feel that they are getting their letters earlier than usual. This may well be, because the Member for Sembawang is living in a rural area and the other two Members are living in an urban area where services are more efficient.

(In Mandarin): Point of clarification, Sir. Even if a man lives in a rural area, he is entitled to an equally speedy service. Does it mean that those who live in the rural areas must accept a slower service?

It will be an ideal situation if the Postal Department is able to give the same high standard of service in the rural areas as in the city area but, knowing the background and the history of so many complaints, surely the first priority is to satisfy the large city population and then work towards the rural areas. So I hope the explanation should satisfy the Member for Sembawang. After the reorganisation of the Department, with the assistance of the National Productivity Centre, it is possible for letters which are posted before 1.00 p.m, in the city area to be delivered the same afternoon. That, I think, is reasonably good service. On the whole, in the urban areas there are two deliveries of mail - one in the morning and one in the afternoon. For the outlying rural areas, we are at the moment gearing for just one delivery each weekday. Perhaps the time will come when, with more motor-cycles and motor-scooters, our postmen with their new smart uniform will be seen in the rural areas more often. 3.30 p.m. As for wrong delivery of mail, this is possible in the best of circumstances. But it would be better if such complaints can be made known to us rather than to the Member for Sembawang. We cannot do very much unless the complainants give us specific information. It is no use saying, "I have received a letter which is not meant for me." But if they can give us more details - such as the address of the mis-delivered item, the date and approximate time it happened to enable us to know which particular postman was on the beat and to ask for an explanation then we can do something about it. But the postman may have a good explanation. It may be that the dogs in the rural areas are so fierce that he is unable to deliver the item, and therefore hands it over to the neighbour who has agreed to accept it. I mean, there may be good explanations. I now come to the specific complaints from the Member for Anson. First, the Nelson Road Centre. I think he will agree with me that the movement of the Parcels and Mail Centre from the General Post Office basement at Fullerton Building to Nelson Road is an improvement, because it was quite unhealthy down at the basement. But it is to be admitted that, having moved over to Nelson Road, which was, in fact, a P.S.A, warehouse and not built for the purposes of a postal department and therefore not really a proper place for the Parcels and Mail Centre, conditions existing there are not as good as we would want them to be. The move was made in December last year, and so it is already three months since we have moved there. It is also admitted that unfortunately there were some inconveniences. However, renovation work is almost completed, and we hope that most of the initial problems would have been sorted out. As a result of a report in January 1971 by the Occupational Health and Safety Committee of the N.T.U.C., the Ministry looked into the working conditions at the Nelson Road Centre and made certain recommendations which were immediately investigated into, and action has since been taken. For example, vacuum cleaners have been purchased and 14 large wall extractor fans have been installed to improve the ventilation. They are currently looking into the various types of floor varnishes to reduce the problem of dust accumulation on the floor. And we hope to continue keeping a watch on any further defects, so that improvements can be made as we go along. As regards the Maxwell Road postal quarters, I am sorry to hear from the Member for Anson that he thinks that the place is quite filthy. As suggested by him. I shall make an unheralded visit to see conditions and to insist that the matter he put right as soon as possible.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker. Sir, with regard to the delay and wrong delivery of mail, perhaps certain Members have not encountered such difficulties. I would like the Minister to look into this aspect of the postal services. I have said that on the whole our Postal Services are very good. However, because of the increase in population recently, there is bound to be a certain amount of delay and wrong delivery of mail. But I would still like the Minister to take steps to remedy these shortcomings. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0705 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2017. Mr Speaker, Sir, regarding the postman's uniform, I am quite happy that all postmen are very satisfied with it. However. I would like to say a few words about it. Recently, new uniforms were supplied to the Postal Department. With the exception of the name tag on the postman's uniform, there is no indication to show the various grades of postal workers. Could some sort of distinguishing feature be introduced so that members of the public can straightaway identify a mail officer, inspector, postman, or ordinary postman? Further, the tailoring of these uniforms is of very poor standard, and it gets torn very easily. Sir, I also understand that the postal driver, who at times performs the duties of the ordinary postman, is given only three suits of uniforms per year, whereas an ordinary postman gets five. I would, therefore, suggest that these drivers be also given five sets of uniforms, like any other ordinary postmen.

I think I can answer the Member for Anson rather quickly. His two suggestions which he has put before the House this afternoon, i.e., (1) more gradations, other than name tags on uniforms, so that the public will be able to recognise the various grades of officials in the Postal Department, and (2) that drivers be issued with five issues of uniforms instead of three, will be given consideration.

In view of the answer given by the Minister, I withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir,I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0705 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3004. Sir, I notice that there is a huge increase in the allocation for new issues of stamps, that is. from $140,000 for last year to $360,000 for this year. I believe there is an increasing interest in stamp collecting among our school children and adults. So these new issues would be welcome additions for all these budding philatelists and professional stamp collectors. What I wish to ask is the number of new issues of stamps to be made for this year. I would be grateful if the Minister for Communications would be kind enough to indicate the type and number of new issues of stamps with the various denominations, which the Postal Department will be introducing this year. Sir, I would also like to point out to the Minister one aspect of these new stamp issues. In past years, when a new :issue of stamps is introduced, pamphlets about the new issues are distributed to those who ask for them at the Philatelic Bureau of the General Post Office. On some occasions the supplies are insufficient. e.g., sometime last year, there was a special commemorative issue of the Festivals series, and there were insufficient brochures to go round. These Festival stamps were quite big and colourful and there was a great demand for them. But when applications for brochures were made, the Bureau could not supply them, probably because of the large demand for them. Nevertheless. I hope the Minister will look into his matter as well. Sir, as I pointed out just now, there seems to be a growing interest in stamp collecting. I am happy to say that in one of the community centres in Punggol, a small stamp collecting group of about 20 students and adults was set up sometime last year. This group held regular meetings and with the interest generated among them, it has now swelled to about 70. I think this is a good start, and I hope that with the advance information provided for by the Postal Services on the new issues, other groups interested in stamp collecting, from schools and other community centres, will he able to get the information they want on such new issues.

Mr Speaker. Sir, I should like to inform the Member for Punggol that provision under subhead 3004 "Stamps - New Issues $360,000" for the coming financial year is really for expenditure on the production and issue of new definitive stamps, that is to say, new definitive stamps for normal sale to the public. The present series was introduced in 1968-69. It consists of the Dance series, Mask series, and the Musical instruments series, ranging from one cent to $10. It is normal practice in postal administrations to change the definitive stamps every three to four years. So we intend to produce a new definitive series for 1972-73 with about 14 denominations, also ranging from one cent to $10. This new series is in the process of being designed and, when ready, will be issued. What the Member has in mind really was the commemorative issues which. I think, had generated considerable interest ever since the Stamp Advisory Committee was appointed in 1968. 3.45 p.m. In the past there were only one or two sets of commemorative issues per 3ear. But since 1968 we have tried to make it a normal policy to issue about four or five sets of commemorative issues per year. We have also given our local artists an opportunity to design our stamps, which have created so great an impact that even the Punggol Constituency has a stamp club, as stated by the Member. For this year, we will have five sets of commemorative issues depicting designs based on coins, art, festival (we hope without any controversy), youth and shipping. As regards the complaint that there were insufficient brochures for new commemorative issues, I am sure the new Chairman of the Stamps Advisory Committee who is my Political Secretary, the Member for Bukit Merah, will take note of the complaint. I am also sure that he will see to it that there wilt be more than adequate copies of these pamphlets and brochures in future, so that sales of commemorative issues can improve and. therefore, it means more revenue for our Consolidated Fund.

Sir, before I withdraw my amendment I would like to make just one small observation: I was talking in terms of the two types of issues, i.e., the commemorative and the definitive issues. I am very grateful to the Minister for his detailed reply, and I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $22,630,370 for Head 0705 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0706 -

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0706 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*.(* The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs Ng Yeow Chong, J. F Conceicao, Ch'ng Jit Koon, Low Yong Nguan and P. Govindaswamy.) Sir, this head of expenditure relates to the provision for the Registry of Vehicles amounting to $2.3 million. As we all know, Singapore has a large number of vehicles. According to statistics there are about 140,000 motor cars alone. In addition, there are buses, motor-cycles, scooters, trucks and bicycles. The total number of vehicles is about half a million. We can imagine the workload of the Registry of Vehicles. I would like to take this opportunity to ask two questions. I have received some complaints from the public, and it is my duty to convey them to the Minister concerned. I would urge him to investigate these complaints and to remedy any shortcomings, so that the department can carry out its work efficiently. Firstly, some taxi drivers have complained against certain R.O.V, officials who carry out routine inspection of taxis. These inspectors are trying to make things difficult for the taxi drivers. For example, on inspection of a taxi, the inspector will tell the taxi driver that a certain part of his taxi is defective, and that it should be corrected before it can be passed. The taxi driver will then have it repaired. The next day he will drive his taxi to the R.O.V, for a further inspection, of course, thinking that this time his taxi will pass the test. But the same inspector will take a hammer and knock the taxi here and there, saying, "No, no. This part is also faulty." And he might also say that the engine is noisy and that it should be repaired. All this has caused much dissatisfaction among taxi drivers. If the inspector could only tell the driver once for all what parts of the taxi are faulty and need repair, which perhaps can be done in one day, then it will be convenient to the taxi drivers and also avoid another day's loss of earnings. Mr Speaker, Sir, if the allegation is true, then it shows that the inspector's approach is not correct. I hope the Minister will carry out a detailed investigation to see whether there is any truth in such an allegation. Taxi drivers have also complained that there is always a long queue at the R.O.V, whenever they send their taxis there for inspection. Certain officers are very discourteous in their attitude towards taxi drivers, although our Ministers have always told our civil servants to be courteous. I hope the civil servants will take note of what the Ministers have said and maintain their services at a high standard. I would urge the Minister to look into these complaints.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate the Minister for Communications on his success in the reorganisation of the motor transport service. There has been a lot of improvement in bus services since its reorganisation last year. However, one can still see some old buses operating on the roads.. These old and out-dated buses should have been condemned long ago as scrap for the national steel mill. Instead, they are still permitted to continue to operate, and most of them are polluting the air with their smoky exhausts. Besides, these old buses frequently break down, thereby upsetting the time schedule and causing great inconvenience to bus commuters. There was an occasion when I had to travel by bus, and I had to wait more than half an hour for it. I was later told by the bus conductor that the delay was due to the breakdown of a bus of the same service route somewhere on its return trip to the terminal. Sir, every morning as I travel from Changi to the city, I often see at least one or two buses parked on the roadside, apparently stalled with engine trouble. In one morning alone I counted no less than five buses, belonging to two bus companies, which were rendered inoperative with engine trouble. They were parked along Changi Road within a short stretch of half a mile. This state of affairs is highly undesirable. Something must be done quickly to rectify this situation. Why did the bus companies not replace the old buses with new ones, according to the plan? The Government should initiate action to press the bus companies for an early Replacement with new buses. Meanwhile, action must be taken against bus companies which do not keep their buses properly serviced and maintained before putting them on the road. Sir, I would also like to ask the Minister concerned whether the law enforcement section of the Registry of Vehicles has been adequately staffed, and whether these enforcement officers have been sent out to carry out their duties.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in the last Budget debate in 1971, the Minister for Communications informed the House that steps would be taken to improve the standard o, driving in respect of buses in the public transport sector. The Minister informed us that courses on courtesy, first aid, etc., would be run. Since that time we have heard a suggestion that one of the reasons why our bus drivers seem to be in such a hurry to get from one place to another is that their schedules impose a pressure on them. If this is so, can the Ministry not take such steps that will result in more reasonable requirements for bus drivers to keep to time schedules for bus routes? The Member for Mountbatten has raised a matter which I would like to endorse. It relates to the standard of maintenance and operation of buses. I agree with him that one notices too frequently buses breaking down and holding up traffic. They also caused inconvenience to bus users. I am sure that bus drivers will feel more disposed to listen to advice given in courses on proper bus driving, if pressure of route schedules was not so great and if buses were better maintained. In respect of these two points, can we be informed of (a) the progress of educational courses for bus drivers, and (b) the extent to which the Registry of Vehicles has a say in the proper maintenance of buses, and to what extent is this right exercised? Sir, we were also told during the last Budget debate that the Ministry of Communications was observing the extent to which pedestrian facilities, for instance, overhead bridges, zebra crossings, and so on, were used. I recollect that it was stated that consideration would be given, if necessary, to legislation against jay walking - legislation, of course, that would concomitantly protect pedestrians. Mr Speaker, Sir, it has been frequently declared that a large proportion of those killed and injured in road accidents consists of pedestrians. 4.00 p.m. In view of this, special measures have to be taken to protect pedestrians. The Minister will recollect the extent to which our legislation on safety helmets for scooterists and motor-cyclists and pillion riders has helped to reduce injuries and even the number of deaths arising from accidents. Of course, Mr Speaker, Sir, the real answer to the problem is education - to persuade people to be more careful and to be more conscious of pedestrian hazards, and so on. We hear that solution quoted again and again. But the time may be ripe for measures dependent on education .and social persuasion to be, strengthened by legislation. Perhaps the Minister would like to enlighten us on that point.

Mr Speaker, Sir, when the reorganisation of the motor transport system was implemented last year, drivers and conductors of buses behaved, to everyone's surprise, marvellously. Unfortunately, time has proved what they really are. Daily, our travelling public have to put up with rude conductors, inconsiderate drivers who fail to stop at designated stops, and thereby causing great inconvenience to the travelling public. The buses too are not maintained properly. Quite often these buses break down at odd places and cause great inconvenience to other road users. The bus companies should be pulled up for allowing faulty buses to run on the roads. Many of these buses run around without any petrol filler caps. As such, when they negotiate turns, they leave a trail of oil on the roads. Any motor-cyclist will know what this trail of oil will lead to eventually. It is high time that companies were fined for taking such an irresponsible attitude towards the safety of the ordinary road user. Furthermore, there is an acute shortage of buses running certain routes. It is high time that more buses were put into operation. On the other hand, bus drivers should be given better conditions of service, such as vacation leave and medical benefits. May I also know whether the increase in fines for traffic offences has proved to be a deterrent, and has it in any way produced better standards of driving and ease on the roads? It is my view that this is not so. Has the Registrar of Vehicles exploited the possibility of using television as a medium for instructing and educating Singaporeans in better standards of driving? There seems to he a great lack of courtesy and goodwill on our roads at present.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I fully support the views expressed by various Members of this House about our buses. Since the implementation of the reorganisation of motor transport system in Singapore, there has been some general improvement of our transport system. Unfortunately, after the closing down of the Singapore Traction Company, bus commuters still have to wait very long for buses. Also, the buses are very overcrowded. Sir, a good number of the old buses are very dirty. We can see black smoke coming from the exhaust pipes, seats with the cushion badly damaged, windows cannot be shut when it rains. These old buses are littered with used tickets, paper, and other rubbish. Perhaps they have never been swept for months. The noise from the old engines is so terrible that if you sit near the front portion of the bus, you will at times get a terrific headache as well. There have been frequent breakdowns of these old buses causing traffic jams here and there. Sir, I strongly urge that these old buses should not be allowed to carry commuters any more, as it is very dangerous to do so. I would strongly suggest that the Registry of Vehicles should give another check on all these buses to ensure the safety of bus commuters. Sir, may I take this opportunity to ask the Minister for Communications how many new buses have been bought and put to use by all the bus companies since the implementation of the reorganisation of the motor transport service? And would he be kind enough to request the bus companies to `put more new buses on the various routes to ease the present overcrowding and the unnecessarily long waiting for the buses?

Mr Speaker. Sir, I propose to deal first with the complaints mentioned by the Member for Sembawang. I appreciate the fact that in his criticism he did say that some of the members of the staff in the Registry of Vehicles would appear to be difficult when it comes to the question of inspection of taxis. I appreciate his use of the word "some" because it is not just a wide sweep that the whole department is proving to be difficult, but some may be difficult. The Member's complaint is to the effect that the vehicle inspectors do not give the taxi owner or driver a full list of all the complaints as to where the taxis have failed to come up to the required mark and would need attention and repair in order to get a clearance. And that instead, the vehicle inspectors would, after pointing out one complaint which is subsequently attended to, then look for another complaint and send them away. It would appear that this state of affairs did unfortunately exist during the months of June, July and August of last year. But I am pleased to say that the department has, since August, considerably improved the situation, and the inconvenience caused to taxi drivers should not now arise. It is quite possible that the complaint that the Member has received is not a recent one, but perhaps a fairly long outstanding one which is therefore something of the past. But if `there are more complaints of this nature, I hope he will be good enough to forward the particulars to us so that, while they are fresh in the minds of everyone, we will be able to deal with them much more quickly and have the matter rectified. As for rudeness on the part of an official, as stated by the Member, it is the policy of the Government not to encourage rudeness on the part of any public official to the members of the public. If there are cases of such a nature, will he be good enough to advise the complainant `to submit his complaint, and the matter will be looked into. I would now like to move on to the comments of the Member for Katong, first, before coming to the Member for Mountbatten. There seems to be a general complaint that some bus drivers are rude. That is also the complaint of the Member for Anson - that bus commuters appear to be harassed by very crude bus drivers. Courtesy is something that takes some time to inculcate. It is either in you or not in you, in which case you have got to be educated. And education is a very long process. Sometimes I feel that the Member for Katong, who is associated with adult education, seems to have little confidence in the efficacy of education with respect to improvement of human nature.

Mr Speaker, Sir, may I clarify? My view is that one of the best forms of education is legislation.

I hope Members will agree that it is not necessary to legislate in order to educate. One would think that the Member for Katong is a very impatient man. I think we should not resort to legislation unless as a last resort. I think we should talk, educate and persuade until we are blue in the face and, if it does not work, then perhaps resort to legislation. So with regard to his request, in view of the fact that legislation for the compulsory use of crash helmets has been a great success, whether or not it is time to introduce legislation against jay walking, I would say that I am a patient man and a very patient Minister. I would still say that it is not time yet, as far as I can help it, to introduce legislation against jay walking. Perhaps this time next year I may change my mind if he raises the subject again. Sir, it is true that there is a very' tight schedule for bus drivers to bring their buses back to the terminals. Otherwise, if there were no proper bus schedules, complaints would come from the bus commuters that `they had to wait not half an hour but probably one hour for the buses, in which case the complaints would be even louder. Of course,, we do not believe that bus schedules, should be so tight that drivers should be reckless or that we encourage negligent driving. Far from it. We will take action if it is proved that the driver or the conductor has been negligent in the execution of his duties. As for maintenance of buses, I think bus operators themselves realise that, if they keep a proper maintenance of their vehicles, they will be able to get more out of their buses. Firstly, there will be savings in fuel and the buses will be' able to run for longer periods of time, because when a bus is on the road it is earning money. I think it is in the interest of bus companies themselves to ensure that there is proper maintenance. It is possible that sometimes the buses are unable to keep to the schedule and may be in a very poor condition. I now come to the Member for Anson who, speaking on behalf of bus workers, said that there should be an improvement in their working conditions, vacation leave, etc. Here again, a good bus operator as an employer will see to it that his workers are reasonably paid, with adequate time for rest and recreation, and therefore they should be able to give maximum service. I think I would be exceeding my authority if I tried to say more than this, in other words, to tell the bus operator how to be a good employer. It is understood that it would be in the bus operator's interest to be a good model employer to his workers, and leave it to the union leaders who speak on behalf of the bus workers to negotiate with the employer concerned; and we wish both sides the best of luck. 4.15 p.m. Now I come to the Member for Mountbatten. Before coming to his question of scrapping old buses and so on and so forth, he has asked when would the Enforcement Section of the Registry of Vehicles be operative. I am pleased to say that this section is almost ready to begin its work. We had recommended under the White Paper on the Reorganisation of the Motor Transport Service of Singapore, which was tabled in this House in July, 1970, Command Paper 21, the recruitment of 80 policemen with 40 motor-cycles to be attached to the Registry of Vehicles. We expect this new Enforcement Section to be operational in April, 1972, which means 10 days from now. As early as July 1971, an Assistant Superintendent of Police was seconded to the Registry of Vehicles to get acquainted with the work involved and to lay the necessary groundwork. Thirty policemen and two sergeants were posted to the Registry of Vehicles in January this year. The motor-cycles have also arrived and are registered with distinct numbers - ROV.l to ROV.

40. We do not have to ballot for these numbers. They are for free! The present recruits are now undergoing motor-cycle training, which would be completed in a week's time. A further 30 policemen and an Inspector of Police are expected to join this Section by June this year. The officers in this Section are basically policemen and are vested with all the powers of a police officer. However, they will generally concentrate on the conduct of drivers, especially drivers of public service vehicles, and on the general condition of motor vehicles to ensure that they are mechanically safe and sound. These officers will complement the traffic police strength in antipollution campaigns against motor vehicles. In order that this special force is to be respected rather than feared, they will be instructed to achieve their objective through education and persuasion and, when necessary, only by strict enforcement of the rules. I now come to the main crux of the complaints from Members of the House. The Member for Mountbatten has suggested that old buses should be scrapped and the Member for Anson complained that there is a shortage of buses, followed by the Member for Bukit Ho Swee who complained that the noise of the engines of some old buses are terrible. He has also asked how many new buses have been operating since reorganisation. It is not denied that many buses which are still running are in such poor condition that they should be scrapped and replaced by newer buses. I would suggest to Members of this House and the public that we should ponder a little over this matter to see whether we are pushing matters too hard too soon against our bus operators. If we refer to the White Paper (Command 21 of 1970) tabled in this House on the 21st July, 1970, on the Reorganisation of the Motor Transport Service of Singapore, according to paragraph 4.3 the 10 Chinese bus companies had a total bus fleet of only 768 buses. That was two years ago when this Report was published. But at the end of last month, February, 1972, the total bus fleet of these three Chinese bus companies - the previous 10 companies were merged into three companies -was 1,988 buses, which represents an increase of 1.220 buses, or close to 150 per cent of the fleet which existed `two years ago. Even if allowance has been made for the fact that the ex-Singapore Traction Company fleet of 407 buses were acquired by the three companies in December, 1971, i.e., three months ago, at the price of $2,750,000, Members should bear in mind what the cost is to the operators for the balance of the increased fleet of over 800 new buses -800 over the last two years. Assuming that each new bus costs $40,000 - it could be $40,000 or $50,000 depending on the size of the bus, but let us work on the average of $40,000 - these three bus companies had to find the resources over the past two years to invest a sum of not less than over $30 million. This is not an insignificant amount by any standards; it is not $3 million, or $10 million, but over $30 million. It is just one year ago since the massive reorganisation of our public bus services was put into effect in April, 1971. Had the S.T.C, taken our advice as contained in the White Paper para. 4.15 - STC to be reorganised - that reorganisation was coming and that it would lose its privileged position as the bus company of Singapore since the other three amalgamated companies are coming in as equal competitors, then today, after one year of reorganisation, everything would have settled down. But they did not take the advice and Government had to intervene three months ago in early December to prevent a collapse of STC services. In my view, the present three bus companies, Amalgamated Bus Company (blue), Associated Bus Services (red), and the United Bus Company (yellow), had risen to the occasion by taking over the running of the former STC services. The full operation of ex-STC services resumed with only a break of 24 hours. What is most appreciative on my part was their willingness to take over all the 1,700 drivers and conductors of STC, as otherwise these people would have been unemployed. Therefore, the smooth progress of the bus service reorganisation has suffered only a temporary setback because of the collapse of STC and it is only fair that we should give the three bus companies reasonable time to adjust themselves to this new situation. Only three months have passed, and therefore we cannot pass judgment on the adequacy of our bus services at this juncture. What was the state of the bus services in Singapore a year ago? Take April 1972 as against April 1971, and again, against April 1970, what was it then? Let us give thought to the first before we begin to be critical. Furthermore, although the White Paper lays down an age limit of 17 years for public buses, it is felt that our bus operators will, of their own accord, replace buses even before they have reached the age limit of 17 years. Singapore's bus commuters are so choosy that when an old bus comes along they will not board it. They prefer to wait for another 10, 15 or even 20 minutes for a new bus to come along, and bus operators are aware of this. They know how selective bus commuters can be, and they will, of their own accord, quickly replace them long before the age limit is reached.

They want to make their money's worth!

I do not blame them. I think they are right. So there is no need for any directive from the Registry of Vehicles or the Ministry of Communications to tell the bus operators to change their old buses for new ones. In conclusion, Sir, may I remind this House of a recent critical article published in the New Nation on this subject, "The Bus System - Good or Bad?" The article ran for three days and came to this conclusion; page 9 of the issue of 9th March, and I quote (I did not say it, they said it): `It would also be nice to bear in mind that Singapore has the best public transportation system in the region, if not the whole of Asia. And the tax-paying public can rejoice in the fact that it is also one of the few non-Government-owned non-subsidized services in the world. It makes a profit!'

Mr Speaker, Sir, when the Minister mentioned the investment of $30 million, can he tell us the income of the company? He has not mentioned any income of the companies.

Sir, I wish to make myself clear to the Minister. I am not for a moment advocating the taking off of all the old buses from the road at one time. All I want is that the Government should suggest to these bus companies to maintain their old buses and to service them properly before putting them on the roads.

Sir, we are all very impressed with the eloquence with which the Minister has defended the public transport system, and we must certainly agree with him on the conclusion that he has reached, without the aid of the article in the New Nation. At the same time, I feel that there are little points which show that the system is not all that perfect. There can be no system which is perfect, and it is the job of the Backbenchers here to point to the need for one or two small things, not in the spirit of carping criticism, but in the spirit of constructive contribution. 4.30 p.m. For myself, may I say that I would like to correct any impression that I may have made in the debate just now that I feel that one should resort to legislation at the drop of a pin. I would like to clarify that there is educational value in legislation, provided the time is opportune for its implementation. But in respect of jaywalking, apparently the Minister wishes to wait for yet another year.

I am glad to know of the reactions of Members because it gives me a chance to say more. If it will satisfy them, let me say that we do take action on bus company operators, but we do not talk about it. For the information of Members, over the past year we have imposed financial penalties on the bus companies -against the Amalgamated Bus Company, $1,600, Associated Bus Services, $13,200, and United Bus Company, $17,400. If we find that they are not putting on the routes as many buses as they are supposed to, and they have been checked and found wanting, we penalise them $2,000 a bus that is found lacking. This is the screw that we are tightening on them. But, I think, we should be fair. They have made a great effort to bring in more than $30 million investment in the buses - 800 new buses on the road over the last two years, which is fantastic. That is as big a fleet as we ever had in donkey's years. Therefore, I think we should be careful as to how far we can press them do not kill the goose that lays the golden eggs because, believe it or not, the 1968 revenue for the Registry of Vehicles was only $50 million, but for last year. 1971-72, the revenue was $81 million.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I thank the Minister for having answered not only my question, but also those of all the other Members. So, with their agreement, I would like to thank the Minister on their behalf for such a wonderful answer. I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $2,367,030 for Head 0706 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0801 -

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*.(* The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs Tay Boon Too, Ng Kah Ting, Ho Kah Leong, Ho See Beng and P. Govindaswamy.) Sir, I notice the Members for Paya Lebar, Jurong and Moulmein have also moved amendments to this Head of Expenditure. As we know that all three of them are Presidents of Teachers' Unions, I will leave it to them to take up the professional and industrial problems of teachers and the Education Service in general. I will confine myself to those aspects which affect teachers and pupils as a whole. One of the problems I wish to raise is the high cost of education in Singapore. Let me hasten to add, Sir, the high cost of education to certain categories of people, that is (1) the lower income group, and (2) the over-worked pupils in secondary schools. Sir, we are aware of the emphasis on technical education and participation in uniformed groups. In the case of the lower income groups, this emphasis is costing more than what they can afford. I have spoken on this subject once before. This policy does not appear to give any consideration to the minimisation of the economic effect of the readjustment of its policies on the parents of the students concerned. While it is not possible for the Government to implement a scheme of free secondary education, it is reasonably expected of the Government to bring secondary education within the means of as many citizens as possible. Many citizens, particularly those from the lower income group, have found the cost of educating their children to secondary level very expensive. A student in the secondary school has to pay a school fee of $4 per month, plus a fee of $2 for miscellaneous purposes thus making a total of $6 per month. The only students who are exempted from the payment of such fees are students of Malay origin. Others, even those whose parents are in receipt of public assistance from the Social Welfare Department, are expected to pay at least a fee of $1 for miscellaneous purposes. Conditions prescribed by the Ministry of Education for the remission of school fees from $6 per month to $1 per month are extremely rigid and restrictive to such an extent that it is impossible for the student from a family of very difficult financial circumstances to be granted such a remission of school fees. One of the conditions is that the family income does not exceed $200 per month, and the other is that the remission, if granted, is subject to a maximum of 10 per cent of the total enrolment in each school. There are other expenses involved in respect of pupils, especially from the lower income group. If the schools are far from their homes, invariably they are, the children will have to remain be-hind in school at least twice a week for extra-curricular activities and technical classes. This involves additional expenses for meals as well as additional transport where workshops are not located close to the school where the children are admitted. I have known of lower in-come group parents, especially those earning $200 or less, complaining that it costs them at least $30 per month to keep each child in a secondary school. Sir, in addition to this monthly recurrent expenditure, there are some expenses at the beginning of the school term, such as the purchase of books, drawing boards, workshop aprons, geometrical instruments, etc., which are required for technical classes. A system of loan scheme should be devised. I agree with the Government's policy of requiring every pupil to be enrolled in at least one uniformed group in a school. I have known that in some schools uniforms have to be purchased by the students themselves. In certain cases they have to buy two sets of uniforms, one for ceremonial purposes. We are encouraging school bands to be formed. In many schools, uniforms for the bands are not provided and therefore children from poor homes, even if they are talented and interested in joining the bands, feel shy of joining them just because they cannot afford it. I hope the Minister will look into the possibility of providing these uniforms free-of-charge which will be returned to the school when the pupil leaves the school, or is no longer in the uniformed group. This is being done in some schools, but not all. Surely we do not want participation in school bands to be the exclusive right of only those who can afford it. Sir, another common complaint of parents with children in secondary schools is the heavy load on the school curricula. I have heard complaints from parents that secondary school pupils have very little time for homework and for home environment. Sir, I speak this with some experience and authority. I have the same complaint. The pupils spend very little time in the house as they are required for extra-curricular activities, games, sports, etc., at least three to four times a week, either in the evenings or mornings, outside their regular school hours. Education should be an enjoyable process and not a burdensome one.

May I remind hon. Members of Standing Order 87. Paragraph (6) states that: `...no Member shall be entitled to address the Committee for more than ten minutes at any one time.' This is to prevent possible heartaches among the hon. Members here!

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, to talk about education within 10 minutes is too short a time. Our general education policy today should move in the direction of consolidating our basic education. That is what I would call back-bone education. In other words, the children of the various communities should receive a certain amount of education in their mother tongue. Sir, all along we have emphasised that children should first receive education in their mother tongue, and at the same time learning a second language in order to fit them into the multi-lingual and multi-cultural context of our country. Indeed, parents in general appreciate the value of mother tongue education. But may I know why many parents do not want their children to receive mother tongue education in the first instance? If this can be satisfactorily answered, then our back-bone education will be a success. Sir, the Ministry of Education has made considerable praiseworthy efforts. There is no doubt about it. But on the other hand, there is still plenty of room for drastic improvements in our education system. We all appreciate that Singapore thrives on international trade. It is also a multi-racial Republic. We also appreciate that English is used as a medium of communication for promoting inter-communal understanding in our own country. It is also a language of science and technology. But while our economy and technology are making a headway, we must also pay equal attention, if not more, to other values which have been acquired as a result of over 4,000 years of experience and cultural traditions. Parents, in general, understand the value of this. However, because they are unable to have the cake and eat it, they send their children to a language stream other than their own. This is indeed a matter for regret. As a Government, we must think of the interests and future of our next generation. 4.45 p.m. We must find ways and means to ensure that every child receives an education in the mother tongue first and, at the same time, improves his second language, so that secondary school leavers will be effectively bi-lingual. If we can achieve this aim, then I believe many parents will send their children to schools to receive education in the mother tongue first. Sir, education systems in the world vary from country to country. In my opinion, in the context of our multilingual and multi-racial society, the present system of a six-year period for primary education should be extended to seven years. The seven-year period will be allocated as follows. For the first six years, every child will receive education in his mother tongue which, at the same time, prepares a foundation for the second language. The seventh year will be reserved entirely for the teaching of a second language, except for certain periods to be reserved for the teaching of the mother tongue. At the end of the seventh year, the parents will then decide to which stream of education they wish to send their children. I believe that in this way we can ensure that children from any language stream will be effectively bilingual at the end of their secondary education. In this way, we would be able to bring our policy of bi-lingual education to a satisfactory conclusion. I think there is an urgent task ahead for a reform in our education system. If we still maintain the present system of six years for primary education and continue to increase the teaching time for second language at the expense of the mother tongue, then it will not help us in our policy of bi-lingual education. This is my opinion. It is no solution to our problem. Sir, next I would like to talk about schools in the rural areas, in particular, the aided schools. The school premises in the rural areas are far from ideal. In the past when aided schools first accepted the full grant-in-aid system, the Government undertook to grant a dollar-for-dollar aid for the building of schools. But recently there has been some modification to this dollar-for-dollar system. The capital grant is now made on the basis of the performance of the school. Mr Speaker, Sir, this is not in keeping with the actual circumstances of the schools in the rural areas, in which the members of the Board of Directors are not very rich people. They have to work very hard to be able to raise money to rebuild their old and dilapidated school buildings. Very often they have to spend large sums of money to build school lavatories, leaving only a meagre sum for the main building itself. Most of the school premises are made of planks and attap leaves for the roof. Are we to allow these old and dilapidated huts to continue as schools? Sir, we must understand that in such circumstances, the progress of the schools in the rural areas will be impeded. Students and teachers could not -

Your time is up, Mr Tay.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I will confine myself to three matters under this subhead. My first question is in regard to the posts of Teachers-, in-Training. 118 such posts have been abolished, as shown in page 177 of the Estimates. In other words, these posts of Teacher-in-Training do not exist any more. I would like to know from the Minister for Education the reason why these posts have been abolished, and why will there be no more intake in the Teachers' Training College in 1972-73. The second question concerns the problem of relief teachers. We had occasion last year to hear the Minister of State for Education mention that there was then a very high number of relief teachers required for various reasons to fill vacancies or to relieve those who were on maternity leave, sick leave, or on retirement. I believe that some of these relief teachers are graduates, and some are not. However, some of them are suitably qualified, and I am just wondering whether they have any opportunity to be absorbed into the Education Service. My next point concerns T.T.C, graduates required to step in as relief teachers. I understand that the next batch of T.T.C, graduates will be passing out sometime this year. Therefore, with the problem of relief teachers being resolved, another attendant problem will arise - how to absorb this year's batch of graduates into the Education Service,, and what of future batches? I do not know whether there are plans to see that there will be no occasion for the supply to exceed the demand. Now, if I can come to the types of courses which were organised sometime ago by the Ministry of Education. These are in-service training courses for teachers to acquire additional skills or to polish up their skills, and the Bonus courses which, on successful completion, will entitle a teacher to some sort of a bonus for a certain period. I would like to know from the Minister the number of courses which were conducted last year, and whether such new courses will be conducted this year as well as next year. With regard to the Bonus courses, I believe my colleague, the Member for Telok Blangah, had occasion to seek clarification from the Minister of State for Education as to whether such courses would be organised more frequently to enable more teachers to participate. I hope the Minister will care to make some observations on these points.

Would the Minister like to reply to some of the points first?

Yes. Mr Speaker, Sir, I am quite taken up with the suggestion from the Member for Telok Blangah about a loan scheme to help needy pupils. We can consider that. However, I cannot agree with him that the cost of education in Singapore is high. I would say that in this respect we are in a better position than most countries because we have the facilities to allow everyone to have an education. Whenever a case of real hardship can be made, aid is given. I think the management committees are now seriously considering the possibility of giving free lunches to very poor pupils who have to attend workshop sessions in the evenings. 5.00 p.m. With regard to the Member's other observation that an added burden is imposed on poor students, by their having to supply their own uniforms for school bands and other extra-curricular activities, either he or I have been misinformed. As far as the policy of the Ministry of Education is concerned, all uniforms for uniformed groups and bands are supplied free. Only in certain cases are students asked to buy their own shoes. But here again, the poor students are aided, as shoes are bought for them. As regards the heavy load on the students, I heartily agree with the Member for Telok Blangah that education should not be a chore. I hate to see our school children going to school with tears in their eyes. A directive has already been given and steps have been taken to see that, as far as possible, learning should be made enjoyable for our children. In fact, if Members were to take time off just to drop in at one of the large number of our primary schools and watch the new integrated syllabus being implemented, they will know what I mean when they see children learning their lessons happily without any inhibitions. I think, in this respect, the Ministry of Education is re-examining its priorities to find out what its objectives should be. In fact, during the last few years, we have been so engaged in nation-building that many other Ministries have, shall I say, imposed their requirements on the Ministry of Education. We want them to be strong and healthy. We want them to keep Singapore clean and green. While these and many other national campaigns, in which we are all engaged, are very good for us, we must at the same time realise that the schoolboys and girls have limited time at their disposal. Their capacity to do the many things they are now asked to do is limited by the time available. We are examining and re-examining this aspect to establish the order of priority so that first things come first instead of wanting to do too many things at one time. I can assure Members that this is foremost in my mind. The Member for Paya Lebar has made a suggestion that in order to really succeed in our objective to make our citizens bi-lingual or multi-lingual, we should extend the primary school period from six years to seven years. It can be done, but it will cost a lot of money. I think it is reasonable to assume that, with an additional year and with the proper method of teaching, we will be able to make bi-linguists of our students. At the moment my Ministry is examining the possibility, with the two semester system, of giving special coaching to students who are weak in the second language for six months or a year. This should enable a student from any stream on completion of his primary education to be in a position to choose any language stream for his secondary education. For instance, students in Chinese primary schools who take English as a second language may, in the secondary institution, elect to continue their secondary school education in English or Chinese, and it is the same with the Malay and the Tamil streams. If we are able to use modern methods appropriate to our environment, we may reach such a stage when transference from one language stream to another will present no problem for the student. Once that is achieved, I think we can consider that our schools are truly integrated, because the barrier to integration among some of the school children is largely one of language. With regard to aid for rural schools, I think the Member for Paya Lebar is misinformed. There has been no change in the policy of a dollar-for-dollar grant to rural aided schools. Where they find difficulty in getting aid, or where there is no encouragement given to continue the aid, it is because the school may be in a resettlement or in a redeveloped area. It would then be advisable for the management committee and for Government not to throw away good money, because the school would have to be shifted very soon. On the question of relief teachers raised by the Member for Punggol, I think the Member for Moulmein has replied very clearly in his press interview this morning with regard to the position of relief teachers. This interview was published in one of the local dailies. I agree with him that the position will improve when the 800 or so final year students of the Teachers' Training College have sat for and passed their examinations. One of the reasons why the post of Teacher-in-Training has been abolished is to keep up with international practice. It has been found by experts - not by me - that part-time training is not suitable. Teachers should be trained full-time. Of course, there is no question of doubt that, wherever possible, T.T.C.-trained graduates will be recruited as relief teachers. To the Member's question whether we should give jobs to T.T.C, graduates in the Ministry of Education, in reply I will instead ask him whether we can guarantee jobs for graduates of the University of Singapore, the Singapore Polytechnic, Ngee Ann College, or any other institutions for that matter. This is something which nobody can do. The Member for Punggol also wants to know how many in-service courses were conducted last year and whether we will continue to run these in-service courses. To the second part of the question, of course, we will continue to run them because it means upgrading the skills of teachers. As regards the number of in-service courses which were conducted last year, may I suggest that since this is a matter of detail, the Member puts in a question for Question Time. I am really very surprised to learn from him - and I hope it is not true -that in-service courses to upgrade skills would only be popular because there is bonus as an incentive. At least he has implied that. However, I would like to believe that the 20,000 teachers that we have in the service would, of their own accord, improve themselves rather than depend on bonus as an incentive.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to make some clarification. First of all, with regard to the Minister's reply on the question of relief teachers, I am well aware of the fact that the Member for Moulmein has said something to the press. But the Minister for Education totally missed my point. I said that some of the relief teachers, graduates and non-graduates, are adequately qualified, and I wanted to know whether they can be absorbed into the Education Service. On the question of in-service training courses, the scheme with bonus payment was started by the Ministry of Education. I think the Minister of State for Education can bear me out that if a teacher successfully completes a bonus training course, he is entitled to a bonus. I believe this was one of the incentives given to teachers because of the many grouses they had, before the restructuring of their salary scales.

Of course, Mr Speaker, Sir, relief teachers who are capable and efficient always have the opportunity of being absorbed into the Education Service. There is no doubt about that at all. There is no fear that they would not be absorbed. As regards bonus for in-service training courses, we started it as an incentive. But, as I say, I would hate to think that it is only incentives which motivate our teachers to attend in-service training courses. We will continue conducting in-service courses for upgrading the skills of our teachers. While it is an incentive, I hope that it is a secondary motivation for teachers to attend these courses, and not the primary consideration.

Sir, whether or not this is a primary or secondary motivation, I am not less concerned with the question of monetary inducements that are forthcoming under such a scheme. What I am more concerned is whether the Ministry is continuing to run these in-service training courses and, if so, how many? Or is the Ministry of Education going to continue running these so-called bonus courses? I for one would like to see that when our teachers attend in-service training courses or bonus courses, they do not go in with the idea of getting one or two extra increments, but because they want to polish up or upgrade their skills.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to make my contribution on a point arising out of the Minister's reply. With regard to the Member's remarks that teachers should be motivated other than monetary reasons when taking up in-service courses, I would like to tell him that normally teachers, on their own accord and in the interest of the service and career, take up extra courses without any expectation of bonuses, and so on. But this is the case only with courses which are related to their own interest and their own liking. Very often because of the major shifts in the educational system in the last few years, teachers sometimes are asked to do jobs contrary to their own aptitudes and interests. Sometimes it helps to pay bonuses for attending these courses, as the Ministry itself has recognised. Therefore, while agreeing with the Minister that the main motivation must be for the love of it, there is no harm for the Ministry to increase the number of courses where bonus payments are made. Therefore, this question of motivation for the wrong purposes should not be given too much prominence. Otherwise, the impression would be given that it is only for the sake of bonuses that teachers take up these courses.

Mr Lim, I think it would be a good idea to take the suspension at this stage.

Yes, Sir. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

I suspend the sitting now and shall take the Chair again at 5.45 p.m. Sitting accordingly suspended at 5.16 p.m, until 5.45 p.m. Sitting resumed at 5.45 p.m.

Resolved, That progress in the Committee of Supply on the Main Estimates for the financial year 1972-73 today be reported immediately after completion of the discussion on Head 0801, and leave be sought for the Committee of Supply to sit again tomorrow. - [Mr Lim Kim San].

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

5.47 p.m. Head 0801 (cont.) -

Mr Speaker, Sir, to clear up any misunderstanding that may have arisen during the debate just now, I would like to say that the Ministry of Education will, of course, continue to conduct these in-service courses which carry bonuses, because the exigencies of service may require it with the introduction of technical education and greater emphasis on technical education. It is possible that some teachers who have been in the academic streams will have to undergo special courses for retraining, and for which they may have to spend quite a long time to acquire the skills to be proficient enough to teach certain subjects in the technical stream. So, therefore, these Bonus courses will continue to be conducted.

Sir, I am indeed very grateful to the Minister for Education for having pointed out that more courses along such lines will be conducted. I am also grateful that he has clarified the points I have raised just now.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I am glad to see that the Minister for Education is now able to answer all queries with ease and in a calm manner. I hope he will have the same confidence when we come to the next amendment. In the past few years our education system has been undergoing tremendous changes. Besides the major change from academic-bias education to technical-bias education, there are many other changes. However, I am sorry to say that some of these changes are indecisive in nature, while some others are dependent on the change of Ministers. Whether the changes are all for the good, we will have to wait for history to tell. Because of the speed of the changes, sometimes even people in the educational circles feel at a loss. Thus, I wonder whether adequate and prudent consideration had been given before the changes were made. For example, a few years ago, it is required to use English in teaching Mathematics and Science in Chinese schools, and the teaching of History, Geography and Civics in Chinese in the English schools, and so on. However, before long the directive is not rigidly enforced and principals are given the discretion to decide. At the moment, it is not certain in what language textbooks are to be used for Mathematics and Science in Chinese secondary schools. The reason given for the abolition of geography and history as examination subjects for the combined primary school leaving examination is "to raise the interest of the students in these subjects so that the students may not have to learn by rote for the examination. Thus the teachers will be better able to use their teaching methods freely to obtain greater effect in order to achieve the aims of education as expected." This was the reply given to the Chinese Middle School Teachers' Union by the Ministry of Education and it was published on 1st March this year in the Chinese newspapers. If that is the case, why not abolish the combined primary school leaving examination? Why not let us do away with all this, so that teachers may be able to effect better teaching methods to achieve the expected aims of education? Another example is the use of so-called "wordless new syllabus". It may be all right to experienced teachers and bright students. But if the teachers are without any experience and the pupils are backward, then it will amount to nothing, whether the students are attending school or not. I have come across certain pupils who, after attending primary school for two years, are still not able to write their own names. Sir, I am not being very archaic and I am not against educational reforms, but the question is whether these reforms are good for our education. Here, I would like to suggest to the Minister that before the implementation of any change in the education system or policy, we should consider the views and opinions of all the people concerned. We should not merely go by the reports of experts or the liking of some. In case of any failure of the reformation, the losers will always be our innocent students. It will also adversely affect the quality and interest of our nation in the long run. Now, let me touch on the question of the teaching of second language in Chinese schools. All along Chinese schools have been using English as a second language. They have been striving hard to promote the learning of English by increasing the sessions or by other means. Some schools even go to the extent of providing additional English teachers out of their own funds to teach the English language. However, all these efforts seem to have achieved not much success. Basically, I think it is because both the textbooks and the teachers are far from ideal. Generally, not every English teacher in Chinese schools is properly trained in the teaching of the second language. There is great mobility of such teachers too. Some pre-university level classes are taught by teachers with only a Cambridge School Certificate. It is necessary to have trained teachers and to have new textbooks compiled to meet the needs and background of our local situation in order to meet the actual requirement for a better standard of English in Chinese schools. Sir, I would like to raise a final question for the Minister's consideration. That is the abolition of the post allowance to school Vice-Principals. In October last, the Teachers' Unions had reached an agreement with the Ministry of Education on the readjustment of salary structure. To be fair, the Ministry should not change the substance and spirit of the agreement by acting unilaterally. How can the post allowance of Vice-Principals be entirely abolished in the course of the readjustment after it has been implemented for so many years? I would like the Minister to explain this.

Mr Speaker, Sir, it is praiseworthy to note that the Ministry of Education is continually making efforts to improve the quality of education. The recent decision to abolish examinations in History and Geography in the primary schools is an example of such effort. However, this decision has been questioned in some quarters and the validity of some of the criticisms merits close attention by the Ministry. The main reason for abolishing these examinations seems to be the heavy learning load on children and the lack of time or the teacher to cover the syllabus for these subjects. The pressure of time in the learning of these subjects has caused students to commit to memory a mass of facts which have no meaning to them, who only present them out of context. With History and Geography becoming non-examination subjects, it is hoped that children will be able to learn at their own leisure, thus ensuring a comprehensive grasp of the subjects in their totality so that learning becomes meaningful and directional. However, the mere abolition of examinations on these subjects may not help to achieve this objective. Children in the Primary School Leaving Examination classes tend to be over-examination conscious, and may not pay due attention and interest to non-examination subjects. This frame of mind applies with equal truth to the teachers teaching in these classes. So it may perhaps be more feasible to revise the syllabi of these subjects by reducing their content so that they do not impose a burden upon the children's capacity for learning. However, if it is intended to carry through with the decision to suspend examinations, then this should be confined only to the P.S.L.E. classes. Examinations in these subjects should continue in the lower standards in which these subjects are taught. An overall suspension of these examinations may lead to its total neglect in the other extreme and defeat the very purpose for which it is intended to achieve. I think the Minister for Education will agree with me that history is an important subject in our school curriculum for it records the events of a nation's past. If students do not know the events of our nation's past, then there is hardly any chance to build a nation's future. And more so, our future generation will not be able to know, for instance, who is the Minister for Education in the year 1972! Whether or not there is merit in abolishing examinations on history, I strongly urge the Minister for Education to seriously consider it before taking steps to implement this policy. 6.00 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, during the last Budget session, I touched on the integrated school system. I regret that even now there are very few schools that can be truly said to be integrated schools. Many schools display signboards to say that they are integrated schools but, in fact, they are completely segregated schools. Some of these Government integrated schools are separated by language, the English stream occupying one half of the building while the Chinese stream occupies the other half. Even in the field of sports, the two streams are separated. It is further disappointing to note that segregation exists in the English stream where the students are separated by race. Chinese students are put in different classes while Tamil and Malay students are put together in one class. The excuse for this is second language. I wonder how the second language can be used as an excuse for these students to be segregated throughout their secondary school career, when it is the Government's intention and policy to integrate the people of different races. This is a very pressing problem. May I ask the Minister for Education to look into this matter as soon as possible before further damage is done in our schools? It is commendable on, the part of the Government to lay emphasis on bilingualism, which has been long overdue. It is true that bi-lingualism or bi-lingualism can make our citizens more tolerant and to achieve a better understanding of each other's cultures and traditions. But I wonder if we have sufficient teachers who are themselves bi-lingual. May I suggest that emphasis be laid on persuading teachers to be bi-lingual themselves. It is through their understanding of the complexities or problems faced by the other races that they will be able to impart their views of tolerance on the younger generation. At present, we find teachers educated in one medium only and, therefore, conversant only in one language, like living in cocoons. These teachers are quite often insulted from ignorance of their own problems, customs, traditions. The aesthetic qualities found in a knowledge of a language other than their own are not much of an asset to Singapore.

Mr Speaker, Sir, an option was given to the various schools to teach Mathematics and Science in the language they prefer, largely because there was insufficient staff to teach these subjects in English in a Chinese-medium school, and as a result we found that the standard of Mathematics and Science began to fall. About a year ago, I announced that when sufficient staff has been trained in the T.T.C, and are available to teach Mathematics and Science, we will make it compulsory to teach these two subjects in English in Chinese schools. Sir, I am afraid the Member for Jurong really made a wild and sweeping statement when he said that many children who have been in school for two years cannot write their names. I know there are always black sheep to be found in a group of people and probably we also have our share of retarded children among the young ones. However, if it is really true that these students cannot write their names after two years of schooling, I think what they need is not so much a teacher or help from the Education Ministry, but help from the psychologists. However, I am sure that such cases are, few and far between, and if they should come to the notice of the Member for Jurong, I would ask him to appeal to the Ministry of Health for assistance. Sir, on the question of incorporating the allowance of the Vice-Principal into the new salary scale, it may also interest and please him to know that we have written to the Ministry of Finance on this subject. This was a point which was probably overlooked by both the Union and the Ministry during the negotiations. Anyway, we are trying to rectify this. The final decision will have to depend upon the Ministry of Finance, though I can assure him that the Ministry of Education will advocate the incorporation of this allowance, because we think that there is a case to be made. I am very glad that the Member for Bras Basah has realised, or agreed, that it will be a good thing to do away with examinations in History and Geography in the P.S.L.E. If this is so, and if his own reasoning has led him to this conclusion, I think it will lead him to the fact that we should abolish this examination in the primary schools. Therefore, I cannot understand why, on the one hand, he considers that it is advisable. in order to make the students less examination-orientated, to abolish the P.S.L.E, examination, but on the other hand to continue with the examination of these subjects in the primary schools at the lower levels. Anyway, I am of the opinion, though I am not a professional educator, that it is no use talking about the significance of History or the importance of Geography, if children do not understand what they read. I think our first priority should be to teach and allow children to get a firm grasp of the language or languages. That is the reason why I thought, after consulting professional educators, that we should take History and Geography as part of a language lesson. Although there is no examination for the two subjects, part of the information and facts which they read and gather from the History or Geography textbooks would be required when they sit for their language examinations. This would also allow the teachers more freedom in approaching the subject and to make it more interesting. So it is not a question of free-for-all for the teachers to do what they like and ignore the subjects. But we hope that, by making both History and Geography non-examination subjects, they would be made more interesting and more pleasant for the child to learn. Sir, all of us, including the Member for Anson, would like to see actual integration taking place in the schools. But I think it is too much to expect a miracle to be performed in five years. and to see all our people mingling freely. The barrier to integration lies in the ability to communicate in a common language. We want to integrate them by making them multi-lingual. Therefore, it is not true to say that instead of encouraging integration, the Ministry is discouraging it by putting pupils of different races into different classes, i.e., the Tamil and Malay students are in one class and the Chinese students in the other classes - students are only put in the same class when they take a second language. For instance, if the Tamil and Malay students are studying either Tamil or Malay, then, wherever possible, we put them in the same class. I think all the teachers and principals are aware of this integration policy. So I do not think the Member for Anson has got the right information. There is no segregation in the way that he seems to think. Mr Speaker. Sir, I think I have covered most of the points. But if there are any points which I may have left out, probably Members can remind me.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I am glad to know that the Minister for Education has seriously discussed matters with us here. However, there is one point which he has overlooked, and that is the question of raising the standard of English in Chinese schools. I would like to hear his views on this.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to express the hope that the Minister for Education will enlighten us on the present policy of the dollar-for-dollar grant-in-aid for aided schools in the rural areas. I have discovered that several schools in the rural areas have to rebuild their schools, but they have not been able to obtain this dollar-for-dollar grant in aid or any capital grant. Now, if the Board of Directors of the school or the school authorities do not understand the procedure in applying for this dollar for dollar grant-in-aid, I wonder whether the Minister will consider giving more information to such people.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to comment on a particular point on the post-allowance for Vice-Principals which the Minister, in his reply, had left out. He mentioned that this allowance was possibly a point his officials and the unions had missed in their negotiations. I would like to tell him that that is not so, because the principles enunciated in the agreement are very clearly spelt out and they cover them. May I suggest that someone in the Finance Ministry has messed it up.

I will not quarrel with the Member for Moulmein about that. Coming first to the Member for Paya Lebar, let me assure him that there is no change in the policy of giving a dollar-for-dollar grant to aided schools. Where he has difficulty. I would say that it is largely because the management committee has probably experienced difficulty in raising the requisite amount, which they will have to raise in order to continue the projects which they have in hand. Or it could be that, as I have said earlier, the school is likely to he resettled, or that the area is marked for further development so that it would be wise not to spend further money rebuilding and repairing the school because it would have to be demolished. Sir, with regard to the Member for Jurong on how to improve the teaching of a second language, we are trying to supplement or give further sessions in English as second language by opening classes in the afternoons, so that those who really need it will have the opportunity to spend more time on the study of the language. But here again, I think it depends on whether we can evolve a suitable system to teach English as a second language, or Chinese as a second language for that matter because of the special content of our society. This is where professionals like the Members for Jurong and Paya Lebar can help if they will just get their unions to consider what is the best approach under the special circumstances. Anyway, the Research Officers in the Ministry of Education are exercising their minds on this matter and possibly we may come up with a new syllabus and new methods. It could be something of the type which was considered a great success in America and which is now telecast over our T.V. But I do not consider this method to be exactly appropriate here, because it deals with people who already know how to speak English, and moreover it deals with adults. Anyway, this is food for thought for the professionals in the Ministry of Education. I hope they will be able to come to some conclusions, so that we can have a syllabus appropriate to our surroundings arid so make it easier for our students to acquire a knowledge of English, Malay. Chinese or Tamil as a second language without too much sweat; though in the end it comes to sweating on the part of the students before they can grasp a command of the language. 6.15 p.m.

Sir, perhaps when I moved the amendment and spoke on the expenses of uniforms for students in the uniformed groups. I did not make myself clear. If I remember correct, the Minister mentioned that all such uniforms are provided free And he has also said that I was perhaps misinformed. I want a clarification, to make clear on what I have said, and also to listen to the Minister's further views on free uniforms, If I am correctly informed, uniforms are provided free in the case of members in N.C.C. that is, the National Cadet Corps of the Army and the Police. However, the uniformed groups in schools are not confined to these two categories alone. There are other uniformed groups, for instance, the Boy Scouts, the Girl Guides, the Red Cross, the Boys' Brigade, the St. John's Ambulance Brigade and, most important of all, the school bands which we are very keen on advocating. As I have said earlier on, I speak with some experience as I have children in schools. I have said that there are many schools which provide these uniforms free of charge, on a loan basis. However, there are also some schools where the children have to buy the uniforms themselves. It is all right for me to buy uniforms for my children, but there are some people who cannot afford to buy them. This is where I think the Minister said that the school management committees are even looking into the possibility of providing free lunches if students have to stay behind for technical education. This is a welcome move. Perhaps we can extend this privilege by providing free uniforms so that we do not confine children from the lower income group to the N.C.C, of the Police or the Army. If they have talent and if they are interested, they can join the school hand. It is exorbitant to buy uniforms, especially those for the school band. I know this from experience. Can I have the Minister's clarification on this issue?

Mr Speaker, Sir, if school bands are encouraged by the schools and form part of the school curriculum, then uniforms are provided completely free. I would not know whether Scout uniforms are given free, but I know for certain that needy students who join the Boys' Brigade or Boy Scouts are given free uniforms. Anyway, all the N.C.C, uniforms are given completely free. In the case of Scouts group, where the Troop belongs to the school, free uniforms are probably provided. If it is not free, then it is a remnant of the old custom. Whether or not the school management committees will provide free uniforms, I do not know. As far as the Ministry of Education is concerned, we have provided free uniforms for the different categories of uniformed groups which I have stated. Much as we like, I will not make promises just now, because finance is not in the hands of the Ministry of Education. It has to come from the Ministry of Finance. There are many aspects of the problem which must be looked into before we can provide free uniforms for the uniformed groups, like the Boys' Brigade, Boy Scouts or the Red Cross. And I say it again that in the case of the N.C.C., which is encouraged by the Ministry of Education, uniforms are completely free, For sports too, jerseys, shorts, boots and spikes are supplied completely free if the students are members of the school team. In cases where these items are not supplied free, the poor students can apply for and be given aid,

I thank the Minister for his elaboration. I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Teong Eng Siong -

I am not moving, Sir.

Mr Sia Khoon Seong, amendment (3)* * Amendment (3), standing in the names of Messrs Sia Khoon Seong, Tay Boon Too, Yeo Choo Kok and Ho Kah Leong, reads as follows: That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1005.

I am not moving. Sir.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker. Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1005*. I have said just now that even if I were allowed to speak for one whole day on the question of education, I might not be able to finish expressing all my views. However, let me briefly touch on some problems of education which require urgent attention. My colleagues and I, who are in the teaching profession, are of the opinion that the numerous educational seminars organised by the specialist inspectors were not very well managed. There were too many. In the first term of this year alone there were seminars for Primary I and II revised syllabus for Mathematics, the Primary III and IV revised syllabus for Physical Education, the Primary III and IV revised syllabus for Music, etc. All these so-called seminars were of two or three hours' duration only. In these seminars, the specialist inspectors merely took out their notes and rattled them off, and that was the end of it. However, the teachers who had to attend these seminars, especially those who come from the rural areas are experiencing some difficulties. As soon as their schools were dismissed at about 12.50 p.m., they had to take a quick lunch, rush off to catch a bus and should within one and a half hours reach their destination. The seminars would begin at 2.30 p.m. They were in such great haste that when they reached their destination they were panting like dogs. The seminars were of two or three hours' duration. I doubt whether these seminars will help the teachers in familiarising themselves with the new teaching methods and whether any real objectives can be achieved. Moreover, most of the primary school teachers are not specialist teachers. They should be able to teach all subjects. The subjects taught by them are not the same every year. Sometimes before they are conversant with a certain subject they are asked to attend a seminar. We can imagine the outcome of such a seminar. As for those teachers who come from the small schools, they have to teach many subjects in different classes. Therefore, it is very likely that they will be asked to attend seminars on various subjects. Under such circumstances, it is not possible to expect these teachers to perform their duties well and to benefit from such seminars. Hence, the main objective of the seminars was lost. Mr Speaker, Sir, there is no limit to learning. It is the duty of a teacher to keep himself abreast of the latest trend in his particular field. He must keep himself informed of the latest knowledge. The theory of education cannot be studied in two or three hours, A teacher has to spend a lot of time studying the methods of teaching. Whether or not the methods of teaching are suitable will depend on the specific school in which he teaches. I am of the opinion that the seminars should be well planned. They should be conducted during the long vacation period. They should last at least a few days. The discussions should be held in a systematic manner. The results of the discussions, including the teachers' reactions, should be considered, and any proposals made should be implemented. It is only logical to do so. It is impossible to discuss a subject within three hours at a seminar. To my mind this is only a waste of time and effort. Sir, let me touch on a different problem which has become quite common in Singapore, but which has not been solved. I am referring to the allegations of members of the public against public officers. We live in a democratic country and the people have every right to censure any corrupt officials or to make any constructive criticism against certain aspects of the Government's policy. They are allowed to exercise such rights. However, some of the allegations are groundless and are not based on facts. Some of them are mere frame-ups. Such allegations are usually made in the form of anonymous letters. On receipt of such letters, the department concerned will carry out an investigation and if there is any truth in the allegation, the officer will be punished. If not, then that is the end of the matter. We can imagine the mental torture the alleged officer has to undergo when an investigation is being conducted, and the effect it might have on his reputation. However, the person who makes an untruthful allegation has achieved his purpose, that is, malicious defamation of a certain official, and is allowed to go unpunished. Such procedures in dealing with the complaints will result in the victimisation of these officers. Mr Speaker, Sir, those in the teaching profession are very particular about their good name. When dealing with such complaints, the Ministry of Education should follow a rational procedure. Any letter of complaint which does not bear any real names and addresses should not be dealt with. 6.30 p.m.

Your time is up, Mr Tay.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not want to talk on the problem of policies. I merely want to touch on the technique of implementing our policies. Our policy of multi-lingualism is a wise and farsighted one and has won international acclaim. However, from the views expressed by other Backbenchers, it seems that they are not entirely satisfied with its implementation, and that something has gone wrong somewhere. Our students are not fluent not only in their mother tongue but also in their second language. This might be due to the fact that our Government is more concerned about fostering science and technology, thereby resulting in the neglect of the languages. Subjects such as the humanities have been neglected. A certain Chinese press recently advertised for translators. There were about 20 applicants and the result of the interview was that the applicants were not proficient in their second language or even in their first language. And these were graduates. This shows that there is no proper training in the second language. In the Universities, there are courses in translation. There are also language laboratories. However, such courses appear to be mere frills, not being put to good effect. By themselves, they are not adequate to train our pupils' ability in languages and translation, There will be more and more scope for translators, as translation has become a profession. There may be language specialists in the higher institutions who are not fully utilised and as our language teachers have not been given any special training, may I suggest to the Minister to set up a specialist language training course for our language teachers. We can get the T.T.C, to make use of the language laboratories in the universities to train them. The T.T.C, can organise training in these labs for our language teachers at all levels and from all streams. There are many language teaching scholars who had been trained abroad and they have been posted to teach simple language classes, Thus, their talent is little used. The authorities concerned have not fully made use of their ability and talent, which can be fully used to train our language teachers. Such scholars should be properly utilised by the Ministry. There should also be theoretical courses in language teaching so as to enhance the standard of teaching of languages.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to touch on the behaviour and thinking of our students in the schools. I think the kind of behaviour and thinking they have will have a great bearing on our future. Sir, not long ago the students in our schools were guilty of extremism in their thinking and behaviour which caused us some concern, They were a bit radical and this lasted for some length of time, and they were criticised by the society at large. However, now there has been a complete change to the other extreme. They have become indulgent in pleasure seeking and licentiousness, and some of them even try to imitate hippies of the West. This has also infected our schools. You can notice it. If we do not arrest such trends now, allow it to continue, it will result in our young people becoming decadent and degenerate. How then are we going to bring up a rugged generation? The purpose of having extra-curricular activities in the schools is to channel the learning and energy of our students to the right direction. Hence we have civic subjects in our schools. How then could our youths have changed? I think we can deal with this matter under several subheadings. Firstly, the evil vogue and environment in our society exert harmful influences over our youngsters. Youngsters of lesser will power will not be able to resist such enticements and trends, Mass media like Radio and T.V, broadcasts, gramophones, the press, advertisements and posters, bookstores and coffee houses, all exert a kind of degenerating influence on our young people. On this, the Member for Thomason has given his view in the House a few days ago. Secondly, the disciplinary control by the schools has recently been lax on our students. Many teachers have sighed with a heavy heart about this. What are the causes? The answer may be that the schools do not bother to control the students, The less you do, the less trouble you get, otherwise your good intention may get you evil recompense from the students, What is the reason for this situation? It is because the schools are not given proper authority to deal with the students. Teachers are not given the right to mete out corporal punishment. With the system of automatic promotion, persuasion and character records will have no avail on the situation. If any corporal punishment is to be meted out, the school must be prepared to brave the possible anger of parents because they may write to the Ministry or to the press to complain. Under such circumstances, is it any wonder that most schools do not want to get any credit hut hope to avoid getting into trouble by not exercising control over the students? Thirdly, parents do not exercise their guidance adequately. This might be due to lack of time or proper understanding on their part. Most of them send their children to school in the hope that they will be taken care of by the schools. Since students spend about 5� hours in the school and most of the time at home, then if parents do not take proper care of their children but allow their children to wander about and to get mixed up with bad elements, they will be led astray. These are hut a few common causes; there are many other factors. If we want to produce a rugged and healthy generation, which possesses not only brawn hut brain, we must allow the schools to have a settled and peaceful environment. To achieve this, the maintenance of discipline in the schools is most important. At the moment, the tendency to indulgence, looseness and self-seeking on the part of youths is still in the incipient stage, anti therefore it is time we took steps to arrest such tendency. However, this cannot be done by merely holding a few seminars or talking and lecturing by some experts. It is not a time to sit and talk but a time to stand up and act. In this respect, the Ministry of Education should shoulder its particular responsibilities.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am glad Backbenchers are not happy with certain aspects of our implementation of policies. As my colleague, the Minister for Communications, has said earlier on, any improvement which has been made in the Ministry of Communications is in a large part due to the dissatisfaction of Backbenchers; that it is largely due to the constructive criticisms that improvements have been made. In the same way I hope that improvements can be made in the Ministry of Education, partly due to the' criticisms and dissatisfaction of Backbenchers. I can assure the Member for Delta that because of the introduction of technical education, there is no likelihood of our neglecting academic studies at all. Probably his dissatisfaction, and the dissatisfaction of many other Members, is with regard to the lack of linguistic ability of our students stemming largely from the fact that probably we are expecting too much in too short a time. This question of multi-lingualism and bi-lingualism is a recent phenomenon, I am not surprised at his disappointment in finding that, in answer to an advertisement for translators, there were only 20 applicants who turned out to be inadequate for the job. I should think it is too general to blame our educational system for the lack of proficient translators because if I were an efficient and proficient translator, I can make a much better living elsewhere rather than being a translator and spending my time translating documents. The mere fact that there were only 20 applicants with inadequate qualifications for the post or translator does not mean that we do not have efficient bi-linguists or multi-linguists in our midst. They are there, but we expect to see more of them. Here again, we must realise that today's child in school, whether he be' in a primary or secondary school, is expected to learn much more than what was required in my time. In those days, first and foremost, we spent all our time on one language. There was then not that much explosion of knowledge as today, such that the child now has to divide his time not only studying the great mass of new knowledge and discoveries that have come to the fore, but also studying two languages. On top of that, he is also involved in extra-curricular activities. This is where we have got to be a bit chary anti wary in choosing the kind of syllabus that is required to develop our children in an all round manner, so that they will be technically orientated and will also have the academic background to live a fuller and a more gracious life. I would say that we are in a position of flux just now and the Research Department of the Ministry of Education will have to spend more time in evaluating carefully the kind of syllabus anti teaching that we have, and the kind of subjects that are being taught in schools. 6.45 p.m. I am very pleased to hear that we have what the Member for Delta described as linguistic scholars, who are being underused in Nanyang University and his offer of their services to improve the teaching of language in the T.T.C, is most welcome. For the information of Members, we are not lying idle in the T.T C We are running classes in E,L.II, i.e., English classes for non-English medium teachers anti Chinese classes for non-Chinese medium teachers, to improve their command of anti skills in the languages. All this takes time. It does not happen all at once. On another point, I do not know what the Member for Jurong actually meant when he said that we can do something in the way of controlling the very lax attitude of the students, and their love for an easy life. Among the points raised by the Member for Jurong I would think that what he expects us to do is to return to corporal punishment in school. He is an educator himself, but from reports I have gathered, I would have thought that this is a retrograde step. Anyway, there is sufficient authority in the school for corporal punishment, if the case warrants it. The principal is already empowered, but to allow' each and every teacher to inflict corporal Punishment on a child is a retrograde step. From the limited experience that I have in the Ministry of Education, I can well imagine the amount of abuse that can come up from this because among the 20,000 school teachers some are probably not quite conversant with the object of corporal punishment. Probably some of them may need psychiatric treatment, in the same way that psychiatric treatment may be needed for those who are unable to write their names after being in school for two years, as mentioned by the Member. Therefore, it will he very dangerous to empower teachers in general to administer corporal punishment. There are other solutions. But what I can agree with him is that we can improve the behaviour and attitudes of our students if more parents take an interest in looking after their children while they are away from schools. I think this trend should spread through a society because in a very highly urban uric! industrialised society the tendency is for more and more parents to leave the training or their children entirely to the schools So if parents will take more interest and more time in looking after their children, half the battle is won. It is true that some parents do not fulfil the responsibility of training their children, but by and large, most of them do. We only hope that more anti more parents, having listened to the views of a professional educator about the role of parents, will now take an interest in their wards, so that it makes it easier for us to give them the requisite education and an all-round education for their future development.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, before I beg leave to withdraw, I would like to point out that the Minister has not answered my question. Is it possible that he is waiting for me to read another text before answering my point? I mentioned earlier that the complainant must furnish his own name and address to facilitate investigations into an allegation. If there is any truth, then action must be taken by the Ministry of Education. But if the allegation is unfounded, I think the complainant himself should be punished for a false complaint. Sir, I have brought this matter up because I feel that if a school is undergoing great reform there will be lots and lots of complaints and counter-complaints. And another related point is that at the time when principals were enjoying the post-allowance, the teachers would make complaints against their principals before their retirement.

My apology to the Member for Paya Lebar because I have completely left him out while turning over my notes. To come to the point that he raised with regard to scurrilous allegations, the Member must be aware that during the last year we have not entertained any frivolous or scurrilous allegations by anonymous writers. We only take action where there are specific instances named and where, on the surface of it, there are some doubts as to whether the allegations are true or not. We do not just act on receipt of any anonymous letters. Quite a large number of his colleagues disagreed with his view that seminars serve no useful purpose. We have received, as well as the newspapers, requests for more of these seminars. So they must have served a useful purpose. The Member also said that most of the teachers are general teachers; that they take several subjects, and it is a waste of time to spend two or three hours listening to a specialist. I say that even if a teacher does not teach the subject of the seminar which he is attending, he will be the better man for it because he is learning first-hand tips from a specialist who knows the subject. I cannot agree with the Member that seminars are not well-planned. A lot of work, time and thought are put into the planning of a seminar, and I do not think that the School Inspectors or officials in the Ministry of Education will spend time, effort, money and thought over something which they think will be useless. Nor will they plan the seminars in a haphazard fashion, because they know that Backbenchers like the Member for Paya Lebar will surely bring it up in Parliament. In the majority of cases these seminars are well-planned. I have no doubts in my mind that these seminars do serve a useful purpose for those teachers who attend, except perhaps for a few who probably arrived panting, tired, and hungry, and therefore did not know what was going on. The rest of them must have derived some benefits from attending those seminars. I think I have answered most of the points that the Member has raised.

(In Mandarin):Not enough.

If he can mobilise the members of his union to come and attend a seminar during the holidays, I say welcome to them.

(In Mandarin): Sir, what I would like to clarify with the Minister is this. I am not opposed to the holding of seminars. What I am saying is that with this short duration of one or two hours only for the seminars, even if you can get the experts to lecture, you cannot make better teachers out of those trained in the old or new teaching methods. The period is so short that you cannot produce any results at all. The next point is this. I have received complaints from my members against the seminar on the teaching of music. The music specialist in the seminar was publicising his own composition of music. That cannot be called a true seminar. On the seminar on physical education, it was a session for the selling of lottery tickets run by Inche Othman Wok. Can this be called a true seminar? I am not opposed to seminars as such. In fact, I am asking for longer sessions for seminars, so that teachers can really learn something. I do not want seminars to be turned into sessions for selling lottery tickets or Toto tickets, or sessions to publicise the compositions of music specialists.

Sir, if the Member had studied Economics, he might like to know where Singapore is heading in the next 10 years, or he might want to make or to listen to a good analysis, and if he had attended the talk given by Dr Gob Keng Swee at the Symposium at the University of Singapore, which lasted less than an hour, then I wonder whether he would still be of the opinion that a seminar of one, two or three hours is useless. A seminar does not improve one's knowledge or understanding of a situation, but to make one understand the situation and therefore make one a better teacher. With regard to the selling of tickets, it is probable that some teachers undertook this extra-mural activity. It could not be, and I would not say that the organiser of the seminar encouraged ticket-selling among his fellow members. But in the other case of publicity, if the music specialist in the seminar is a good composer, I see no reason why he should not publicise his composition. It is up to the teacher to evaluate whether the composition is worth their while or not. I would not say outright that the composition is useless; it may have its own merit.

(In Mandarin): Sir, before I beg leave to withdraw, I wish to say that the Minister for Education mentioned the talk given by another Minister at the University of Singapore. I have more confidence in our Cabinet Ministers than experts. Although I am not very satisfied with the answer, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn, The following amendment stood in the names of Messrs J. F. Conceicao and Ng Kah Ting-

I am not moving my amendment, Sir. 7.00 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1010. Sir, in moving this amendment, I am merely seeking information with regard to the appointment of a Visiting Professor to the Ministry of Education, I shall be grateful if the Minister will be kind enough to inform the House about the provision of a salary scaled at $1,950-50A-2,050 for this post. What is the purpose of this appointment, and what is this Visiting Professor expected to do in the Ministry of Education?

Mr Speaker, Sir, this provision of Visiting Professor was made with a view to engaging an expert in Teacher-training to assist the Principal of the Teachers' Training College, in view of its enlarged functions because the School of Education of the University of Singapore has closed down. We are keeping this in review, if the manpower of T.T.C, is sufficient to meet our own requirements, we may not fill this post.

In the light of the reply from the Minister of State for Education, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the names of Messrs J. F. Conceicao and Yen Choo Kok-

I am not moving, Sir.

Mr Yeo is not here.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1111. Sir, I received several complaints from principals that for the past year they have been filling in more than 100 different forms. They complained that these forms are very complicated and have to be completed in English. It is not easy to fill in all these forms. Sometimes when forms have been filled in and submitted to the Ministry of Education, they are returned because they have been wrongly filled. As a result, a lot of time is wasted before all the forms are properly filled. If a school principal is kept busy with this form-filling exercise, then the rest of his work will have to be sacrificed. Let us take this academic year by way of illustration. So far, more than 20 forms have to be filled in by principals. In one instance, a form is to be filled in by school children giving the constituency to which they belong. In this respect, even the teachers themselves are not sure about what is required. The students are also confused, because they do not know which constituency they belong to. When they ask their parents, they too do not know. So they just fill up the forms haphazardly, as a result of which the necessary correct information is not obtained. I have also been given to understand that these forms are required by the Research and Statistics Department to ascertain the school requirements for the next ten years. If this information is to be supplied in such a great hurry. I do not know whether they will be of any use. Sir, I would like to know what is the exact function of the Research and Statistics Department in the Ministry of Education. What has this department done so far to be of benefit to education? Can the Minister concerned please enlighten the House?

Mr Speaker, Sir, just now the Member for Jurong complained about the Ministry of Education changing its policy without planning, but now he is complaining that we send the principals too many forms calling for statistics. I do not see how the Ministry can make any plans without statistics and data. The sending of the various forms to schools asking for details is an annual affair, We are trying our best to send them out in one lot so that the schools can fill them up either at the beginning: or at the end of the term, With respect to the particular form mentioned by the Member, he has correctly pointed out that it is designed to make a study of the mobility patterns of the student population, and so to enable us to prepare a school building programme for the next ten years. The Education Ministry has already clarified that the information, regarding the constituency where the student is residing, is supposed to be filled in by the teacher and not the student or his parents. This information is only used as a rough guide. He has also asked about the work of the Research Unit. The Research Unit has various functions. amongst them the appraisal of the education system -I believe the Member for Jurong is extremely keen on this - the evaluation of teaching methods, and curriculum development. Over the last two years, the Research Unit has done some 20 reports, which have proved extremely useful to the Ministry.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, if the forms to be filled by the schools are of any use, then I have no objection. But as far as I know there are some forms which have been filled in and submitted to the Ministry of Education, but they were just shelved without putting them to any use at all. Sir, I would like the Minister to give us an assurance that, in future, all forms to be filled in by Chinese schools should also be in Chinese.

I can give assurance to the Member for Jurong that we will try our best to get the forms translated into all the four languages.

(In Mandarin): Sir, in view of the assurance given, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1161. Sir, I understand that after the readjustments of salary scales, following the negotiations between the Ministry and the Teachers' Unions, the post of "Principal" does not appear in the Estimates any longer. Teachers are no longer known as teachers. All teachers and principals are known as Education Officer, Senior Education Officer and Principal Education Officer. All the salaries of these Education Officers have been properly regraded too, in view of this, I do not understand why there are still two posts of Principals of Secondary Schools, Grade G, appearing in the Estimates. Can the Minister concerned explain which are the two schools that require a Principal at Superscale G, and why?

Sir, I hope the Member for Jurong does not imply in his question that we should abolish the two Superscale promotion posts for secondary school principals. I agree with him that the designation does not sound very well. Perhaps it should rear! "Education Officer, Superscale G" instead of "Principal of Secondary Schools". But this is a minor point. Promotion posts to Superscale grade are very hard to come by. We have only two and we intend to keep them for the promotion of those in the teaching profession.

(In Mandarin): Sir, the Minister has not told this House whether or not the two Principals are for two separate schools, and what are the schools.

Sir, as the Member for Jurong is aware, the newly revised salary structure is to allow for greater flexibility. Therefore, we do not intend to designate the principal of any two schools for these two Superscale G posts. At the moment, these two Super-scale posts are held by the Principal of the Raffles Institution and Principal of the Raffles Girls' School. Sir, if the Member will refer to last year's Estimates, he will see that it was designated as Principal, Raffles Institution, and Principal, Raffles Girls' School. But this year, it has been designated as "Principals of Secondary Schools" to allow for the necessary flexibility.

(In Mandarin): Sir, in view of the answer given, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1191. The recent restructuring of the Education Service has enhanced the promotional prospects of the serving officers in the Education Service. May I know what steps have been taken by the Education Ministry to determine the criteria for assessing the merits of deserving Education Officers for promotion from one grade to another? How and when will the Ministry conduct the next promotion exercise, and how regular will future promotion exercises be conducted?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I believe the Member for Moulmein will recall that when agreement was reached on the restructuring of salary scales, it was pointed out that it may take a few months to finalise the conversion. 1 think we will he able to finalise it by the end of this month. Meanwhile, we have already drawn up certain criteria for promotions for the consideration of the Public Service Commission and the Ministry of Finance. This involves a newly developed Staff Confidential Report which, among other things, takes into account assessment on the performance of teachers, including personality, E.C.A., and work in community services. As soon as agreement is reached, we will carry out a promotion exercise. The promotion exercise will be carried out for Group III officers first. Being smaller in number, we will carry out promotions first for craft teachers, and then for technical teachers. As for frequency of these exercises, I am afraid I am not able to answer the question, but it is supposed to be flexible. For the coming exercise, we do not know the number of promotion posts that will be available. I believe I have answered most of the points raised.

Point of clarification, Mr Speaker, Sir. He has mentioned that the immediate promotion exercise will be conducted for craft teachers first and then for technical teachers. Will there be a promotion exercise for the other teachers? If so, how soon?

This is subjected to the final agreement with the P.S.C, and the Ministry of Finance. Once the newly developed Staff Confidential Report is ready, we will carry out a promotion exercise.

In view of the reply given by the Minister of State for Education, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Sia Khoon Seong -

I am not moving amendment (9), Sir,If I may proceed with my next amendment. Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 he reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1211. With the recent restructuring of the Education Service, promotional opportunities for aided school teachers will be considerably enhanced. In view of the fact that the promotion exercise for aided school teachers does not come under the purview of the Public Service Commission, what steps will be taken by the Education Ministry to ensure that promotion exercises are conducted for them, regularly and fairly? Will the Education Ministry also consider seeking the Finance Ministry's concurrence to allow aided school teachers to apply for holiday bungalows recently acquired by the Government from the Royal Air Force, particularly in view of the recent policy of the Finance Ministry to let out such holiday bungalows to members of the public? 7.15 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, with regard to the first part of the question, a Special Committee, headed by the Director of Education as Chairman, has been formed, and it will study and review the position and carry out a promotion exercise for all aided school teachers. It will also follow the same pattern as the promotion exercise for Government school teachers. On the second question regarding holiday bungalows, aided school teachers can apply for bungalows as any other member of the public. The fees chargeable to them will be the same as those for the public. Incidentally, I would like to point out that bungalow allocation is under the charge of the Ministry of Finance.

Sir, I am not happy with the reply to the second question. However, since he has passed the buck to the Ministry of Finance, I will in due course raise the matter again with the Minister for Finance. Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1221*.(* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy.) When the new Minister for Education took office, he shelved the Institute of Education Act. It was a great disappointment to the teachers and as a result, some of them left the Education Service. I understand that the School of Education in the University of Singapore has also closed down recently. I would like to ask the Minister concerned what opportunities for advancement are there left available for ambitious and promising teachers? Are there training courses for teachers to acquire degrees in the T.T.C.? If there are, ambitious teachers in the primary and secondary schools can undertake such degree courses and thus our education system will be improved. I wonder whether the Minister has any information on this matter.

Mr Speaker, Sir, why is discrimination shown by the Ministry of Education towards the Indian graduates in the Tamil secondary schools? Although these officers possess university degrees and have gone through the T.T.C, they are not paid a graduate's salary. In other words, their degree is not recognised and they are not paid accordingly. It is time the Ministry looked into this discrimination and put an end to it once for all.

Mr Speaker. Sir,I am afraid the Member for Jurong has completely misunderstood the Minister when he said in Parliament last year that we were reviewing the role the Institute of Education would play. In fact, with the closing down of the School of Education in the University of Singapore, the T.T.C, will enlarge its function and take over the work of the School of Education in preparing students for post-graduate degrees. like Master of Education and Ph.D. (Education). If he wants to know more about the degree of Bachelor of Education, I would like to refer him to the report by Lord James who was appointed by the British Government to study the question of the role of the Institute of Education in the United Kingdom. The finding is very revealing. With regard to the query raised by the Member for Anson, there is absolutely no question of discrimination. As far back as 1961, a Foreign Qualifications Committee was set up by the Public Service Commission to assess the qualifications and to consider the merits of applicants possessing foreign degrees. As a result, many teachers in possession of Indian university degrees were put on the appropriate salary scale. Since then all teachers with foreign qualifications, irrespective of the country of origin, have been considered on individual merit for emplacement on the appropriate salary scale.

Mr Speaker. Sir, there are some graduates who are trained teachers, but they are put on a salary scale not on par with those in the English stream, Why is it so? After all, their education js higher than Senior Cambridge or the S.L.C.

Mr Speaker, Sir, one of the findings of the Foreign Qualifications Committee was that, and I believe the Member for Anson will agree with me, different universities have different standards.

Mr Speaker, Sir, with regard to recognition of foreign degrees, while accepting the fact that it is the prerogative and the role of the Special Committee, a set-up by the P.S.C. to assess foreign degrees, the point at issue is this. This particular Committee was set up sometime in 1961, and is no longer active. Since then, there could be deserving cases requiring the assessment of this Committee. Perhaps a solution to this particular problem is to resuscitate this Committee so that it could assess the merits of foreign degree holders.

Mr Speaker, Sir, all foreign qualifications should be considered on their individual merits, and there is no question of giving a blanket recognition.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not wish to concern myself too much with the closure of the School of Education, so long as opportunities for further education are given to ambitious and enterprising teachers. I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn,

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1251. Sir, since the introduction of the Educational Television Service, there have been programmes for technical and primary schools. However, all these programmes are screened in the daytime. Sometime ago the Adult Education Board announced its intention to introduce E.T.V, programmes for adults. So far there is no sign of it. May I ask when will these E.T,V, programmes be introduced for our adult population?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I wonder whether the Member for Anson watches television. The E.T.V, service for adults was introduced as far as five years ago. There is a programme titled English for Everyone, dramatised by "Connie and Walter". It was produced jointly by the Adult Education Board and the E.T.V. This is followed by "Slim John". In addition to this programme designed specially for adults, there arc other programmes, which the Member for Anson has made reference to, which have been repeated on T.V. over the last five years. These are being telecast during viewing hours on Sunday evenings. The programmes include Health Education, Discovering Science, etc. With the establishment of C.E.P.T.A., that is, the Centre for the Production and Training of Adult Education and Television, the Member can be rest assured that both the range and intensity of E.T.V, for adults will be increased.

In view of the explanation of the Minister of State for Education, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 he reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1401*.(* The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs P. Govindaswamy, Ng Kah Ting and Ho Kah Leong.) Sir, in view of the current campaign to promote industrial safety conscious ness, I would like to enquire what steps have been taken by the Ministry of Education to promote such consciousness in the technical workshops. What schemes are there, if any, to cover occupational risks and accidents for teachers? Will the technical teachers in the aided schools be covered by any insurance scheme in case of accidents in the technical workshop?

Mr Speaker, Sir, today, our secondary schools are giving emphasis on technical education. This is a very sound policy indeed. However, on second thought, do all our students have an aptitude for technical education? The aptitude test at present carried out is very unsatisfactory. It takes into consideration the school examination results, and the workshop practice. From the results of this test only the best students go to the technical schools. The rest are left to plod their way in academic schools. This system of selection will mean that the State is liable to lose political scientists and experts in the other fields. Moreover, do we have enough technical schools in Singapore? Are we not emphasising too much on technical education and producing too many school leavers with secondary technical education and thus produce a surplus of technicians?

I am not speaking Sir.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the emphasis on education has been shifted from the academic to the technical, resulting in the Establishment of the Technical Education Department. Technical education has been given priority from all quarters, and consequently the officials in the Technical Education Department seem to have become rather arrogant. I have received complaints from principals and teachers that there is too much bureaucracy in the Technical Education Department. I have personal experience of this attitude. I have tried to take up the case of a teacher who claims recognition of his past teaching experience but without results. I wrote two letters on the 14th of June and the 21st of July last year to the Technical Education Department. There was not even an acknowledgement, not to say of achieving a due reply. Such treatment is meted out even to a Member of Parliament, and let us not mention about treatment to members of the public. I do not know whether or not letters from Members of Parliament carry any weight, or is it a question of inefficiency in the department itself? I would like the Minister to explain this in this House. The next point I wish to raise is the question of textbooks for technical subjects. We are on the fourth year of technical education. However, there are still no proper textbooks for the technical students. There is only the syllabus on technical education, and because of the dearth of textbooks different teachers have devised different notes for distribution to students. As a result, the progress in technical education differs from one school to another. I do not know whether the Technical Education Department has taken any action to produce textbooks. Mr Speaker, Sir, I have also received complaints from principals of schools which do not have technical classes for Secondary III and onwards that, as a result of the aptitude test all their best students have been selected to go to the technical schools. This has been mentioned by the Member for Anson just now. If the best students are selected for the technical classes, what will happen to the teaching of the humanities and other social sciences? Of course, we will produce the best of technicians, However, if we do not have people with a knowledge of the humanities and the social sciences, then we can at best build only a technical society which can be listless. In the long-term interest of the nation, I do not know whether or not this is good. The next point is that after these students have been selected for the technical classes in other schools, the extra-curricular activities, in particular, the uniformed groups in their schools, are affected and put at a great disadvantage. They cannot carry on their activities because the best students have been taken away. I would like the Minister to think of a solution to this problem. 7.30 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Ministry has always been aware of the need to develop safety consciousness and correct work habits and aptitude among technical students, In fact, we consider this an integral part of the whole training. In most technical schools, we have introduced instruction in first aid, and in most schools we have such a set-up as a safety committee. Constant care is always taken to stress the safety aspect of workshop practice to the students by the teachers. In fact, pupils are not allowed to use any machine unless they have been briefed by the teachers on its proper use and the safety precautions to be taken. I believe the Member for Moulmein also raised certain issues about the question of insurance coverage in case of accidents occurring in technical schools. All technical teachers in Government schools enjoy the same coverage as any civil servant. So there is no question of a separate insurance scheme to cover any occupational hazards encountered by them. In the case of aided schools, their technical teachers are in a position similar to all other teachers in aided schools, where there is no insurance scheme to cover them. It is up to the management committee of the school to decide whether they should provide such an insurance scheme. There have been no major injuries sustained by the technical students so far, largely due to the safety precautions that we have taken, But should any accident occur to students in the Government schools, the Government will take full responsibility of the accident, as in the recent case of accident in Anderson Secondary School. In the case of aided schools, I am afraid the first claim will be on the management committee. To the best of my knowledge, there is no precedent case yet. The Member may be interested to know that for the students of the only Government-aided vocational institute, i.e., the Boys' Town Vocational Institute, there is a limited form of insurance cover for each student provided by the school management. The Member for Anson has some misgivings about the channelling exercise. As pointed out by the Member himself, the channelling exercise was based on (a) aptitude; and (b) their performance in related subjects, i.e., Language, Mathematics and Science over the first two years in the secondary school. As far as we are concerned, the preliminary evidence seems to indicate that the system we are adopting is functioning very satisfactorily, although I must admit that no amount of testing and measurement is 100 per cent accurate, and there is bound to be a few exceptional cases. I am afraid it is not true that we have put too much emphasis on technical education. After all, technical education is only part of an all-round education to be provided in secondary schools. And there is, therefore, no danger of over-training. I think the Member also asked for the number of technical students. The intake of technical students depends very much on the manpower requirements of our industrialisation programme. Our present level, which is roughly one-third, or one in every three school leavers will be technically biased, is, I think, about the right level for any country. I do not think we should increase it any further. The Member for Jurong referred to the efficiency of the Department of Technical Education. I must apologise if the Department has not replied to his letter. It must be due to an administrative slip-up. I give him my assurance that it will not happen again and, in future, all such inquiries will be acknowledged immediately. The particular case that the Member for Jurong has raised has become so famous that it has also come to my ears. It is about a teacher with teaching experience in some other countries, and the delay was due to the prolonged correspondence between the Ministry and the foreign government on the recognition of his experience as a teacher. Technical education has only been introduced very recently and we have not really drawn up a very comprehensive list of textbooks to be used; we have to bear in mind that the system we adopt, which is the modular system, is quite unique. We will develop the textbooks to be used by all the technical students. The guidelines we provide to the teachers are very comprehensive and, in fact, are based on a programme-learning approach, which is fairly satisfactory. In fact, the Member may be interested to know that we are in the process of developing textbooks for metal work at the moment. Both the Members for Jurong and Anson raised the question of students being transferred out of academic schools to attend technical schools. We tried to rectify this by introducing the concept of the arrangement of centralised workshops at Technical III and IV levels, which is now being practised for 16 schools, whereby a student will remain in his own school but go to a centralised place to study the technical subjects. This arrangement unfortunately will affect the E.C.A activities of the students and, therefore, both the supervisor of the centralised workshop and the principal of the sender-school have been asked to liase with each other to cut down the interference with the E.C.A, activities of the students as much as possible.

Sir, in view of the explanation by the Minister of State for Education, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendments stood on the Order Paper Supplement - Mr P. Govindaswamy: (14) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1531. Mr Ng Kah Ting: (15) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2015. Mr Yeo Choo Kok: (16) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2108. Mr Sia Khoon Seong: (17) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2116.

Amendment (14), Mr P. Govindaswamy.

I am not moving, Sir.

Sir, I am not moving amendment (15).

Sir, I am not moving amendment (16).

Sir, I am not moving amendment (17), but I will proceed with amendment (18). Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2120. Sir, the holding of the Annual Youth Festival by the Ministry of Education places great strain both on the teachers and the pupils in those schools which annually participate in this Festival, I wonder whether the Ministry of Education has considered the desirability of zoning the schools into two zones, so that the schools need only to take part in the Annual Youth Festival once in two years.

Sir, the Singapore Youth Festival is, in the nature of things, an excellent opportunity for highlighting the achievements of our youth and the rich cultural heritage of a multi-racial society. The Festival brings about a sense of fulfilment in many schools and also serve as a source of inspiration to others. However, if and when the activities connected with the Youth Festival become too onerous, we will consider holding it biennially, as suggested by the Member for Moulmein.

Sir, in view of the explanation, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Ng Kah Ting-

Amendment (19), Mr Ng Kah Ting.

I am not moving, Sir.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2251. Sir, I would like to enquire what approved courses were organised last year, and what bonus payments were made to participants of such courses? What approved courses are planned for the coming financial year? And what are the criteria for determining bonus payments to participants of such courses?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I believe my Minister has already touched on this matter earlier. As pointed out by him, the courses run last year were mainly to strengthen the teaching of languages and technical subjects. And more of such courses will be run for the next financial year. As regards bonus, I believe the Member asked about the quantum of bonus?

What is the criteria for determining the payment of bonus? In other words, what are the conditions that the teachers must satisfy before they are eligible for bonus payments?

Sir, the criteria depend on the length of the course, the demands on the teachers' time, and also on the demands of the services.

Sir, in spite of the very vague answer, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Sia Khoon Seong -

Amendment (21), Mr Sia.

I am not moving, Sir.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2458. Sir, I am taking this opportunity to enquire from the Minister as to what is being done in the area of career guidance in the technical and non technical streams. From my own personal enquiries from school leavers and some of the youngsters in the final year of secondary education, I often get the idea that they seem to be rather vague as to what they want to do or what they can do. Perhaps more can be done in the area of career guidance not only by the Ministry of Education but also at the school level. Perhaps there should be teachers delegated to the special charge of guiding the pupils as to the requirements of commerce and industry.

Sir, the unit under the Technical Education Department is only for administrative convenience but it covers work on all aspects. In fact, in each secondary school there are at least two career teachers to organise and co-ordinate career guidance activities, and there are about 200 teachers in this category. The activities cover talks, seminars, exhibitions, excursions to factories, and also include publications of the various literature for the benefit of the students.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. 7.45 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3001. Sir, I notice that there is a reduction in the vote for this subhead, from $7.00() to $5,200. I would like to enquire what educational exhibitions, career conventions and teachers' seminars were held last year? Moreover, why is there a reduction in the vote for the next financial year instead of an increase, seeing that they are such highly desirable educational activities?

Mr Speaker, Sir, the sum of $5,200 was based on the expenditure which was incurred over the last financial year. I cannot give off-hand what type of educational exhibitions, etc., were held last year. If the Member could give us notice, we should be able to give further details. He also raised the question why there is a decrease instead of an increase in the vote. We were hoping that, by soliciting participation from the industrial sector, we would be able to carry out more such exhibitions at the same cost as has been done for many of the previous exhibitions.

In view of the explanation by the Minister of State, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the total sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $100*.(* The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs Sia Khoon Seong and Ng Kah Ting.) Sir, the Government Printing Office is now a commercial corporation and is competing with the private sector in placing tenders prom statutory boards and private firms for printing work. But in respect of the magazine Harapan which I know is printed by Eurasia Press, why was the printing job not given to the Government Printer? Were tenders invited before the job was given to Eurasia Press? What was the cost per copy charged by Eurasia Press as compared with that of the Government Printer? Because a lot of technical work is required, I wish to know how many Malay students from both the Malay and English streams have opted for technical education? From this number, how many have passed and how many have failed? Are these technical students given the opportunity to opt for the particular subjects of their choice, or are they being taught technical subjects not of their choice? Another point that I wish to know, Sir, is - this, The Government has encouraged its staff, including the teachers, to enhance their knowledge. Those teachers who wish to go to the university after having served 10 or 12 years, can they be given study leave, if they have been accepted by the University of Singapore, the Nanyang University or the University of Malaya?

I am not speaking, Sir.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in filing my amendment on this subhead, I originally wanted to speak on a variety of topics pertaining to the Ministry of Education. But it appears that, in tact, most of the points have already been covered by my colleagues, the Backbenchers. However, there is still one small point which I wish to raise since I have missed it just now, and that is, the Milk Feeding Scheme that has been introduced. This is, in fact, a new provision which comes under subhead 2127. I personally welcome the setting up of such a scheme in our schools. I presume this Milk Feeding Scheme is for primary school children, but I would like to know whether the provision of $10,800 is sufficient for all the primary schools. I understand that this is a pilot scheme to cover only a few primary schools, and that children are given powdered milk, But it appears to me that in some schools the children do not like either the taste of the powdered milk or its colour. Therefore, these schools tried to induce them to drink by adding some colouring. But this does not go a long way to make them drink either. Subsequently, I was told that sugar was added, but I do not know what the result is. I would like to seek some clarification from the Minister as to what steps are being taken to encourage more school children to take to the drinking of milk, I believe that this supply of powdered milk comes from UNICEF. Has the Ministry any plans to supplement this scheme by giving a better type of powdered milk instead of the present supply which has no taste and has to be sweetened by adding sugar? In this respect, can the Minister also inform this House as to the number of schools and the number of children who are under this pilot scheme? And will this scheme be extended to all primary schools?

Mr Speaker, Sir, may I answer the question raised by the Member for Punggol? This Milk Feeding Scheme is run on a nation-wide basis. I think it applies practically to all the primary schools. Unfortunately milk does not agree with the Asian stomach. Whether you add colour, flavour, or sugar, I think the Asian people still do not quite like to drink milk, I believe we do not belong to the zone called the "milk drinking belt", Anyway, we are encouraging the milk-drinking business by adding flavour to the milk for the primary school children to induce them to drink. I think that answers the point on milk drinking.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not think I can disagree with the Minister of State's assertion that the Asian stomach does not react favourably to milk. I am a layman to diet, but I would have thought that most of us, if not all, were fed with milk in our infant years. The Minister of State in all probability was also brought up on milk to a certain extent! As I have said, it was probably the type of powdered milk with a taste which the children did not like, and the quality was not too good. I am not quite sure, but perhaps his Ministry would care to look into this to see why a good number of school children do not like this kind of milk supplied to them.

Sir, no doubt I was brought up on milk also, but when we were young we were always hungry; there was not much choice! The Ministry of Education does not have to carry out an investigation to find out why our young children do not like to drink milk. In fact, research has been carried out by international agencies and it proved that we do not belong to the "milk drinking belt". No doubt there are people who drink milk, but I think this is just a diet-preference. Incidentally, this is skimmed milk which tastes slightly different.

Sir, my question has not been answered.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in answer to the Member for Kampong Kembangan, I hate to have to disappoint him. One of the questions he asked calls for details as to the number of Malay students who have been admitted to technical streams in the schools, and how many have been able to be admitted into classes of their choice. If he were to put in a notice for Oral Answer then the relevant details will be given. 1 thought we are here debating matters of general policy. With regard to his query on the publication of the Harapan, with your kind permission. Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like my Parliamentary Secretary to reply to it because he is closely connected with this magazine.

What about study leave?

As regards study leave, my Parliamentary Secretary is au tab' with the question, and he will also answer that question.

Mr Speaker, Sir, with regard to the matter of Harapan, raised by the Member for Kampong Kembangan, the Harapan is a publication of the Educational Publications Bureau, and not of the Ministry of Education. It is a magazine mainly on current affairs, and is intended for Malay secondary school students. The articles have to be submitted to the Ministry of Education for vetting to ensure that the contents are in every way suitable for publication. Of course, the editors of Harapan are officers in the Ministry. There is another point queried on the printing of Harapan. The contract for the printing was awarded to the lowest tender. In regard to his other question about granting study leave to teachers, the answer is yes, if the subjects of study are relevant to the teaching service. But each individual case has to be considered on its own merit, The Member also wanted to know the number of Malay students who are successful in their option for the technical stream, and the number allowed to take the technical subjects of their choice. I would like to inform the House that all technical students, irrespective of language media, are given the opportunity to indicate the preference for workshop subjects. While the preference is taken into account, the final selection of a student for the various workshop subjects depends on his aptitude and performance in the workshop subjects in Secondary I and II levels, and his performance in the relevant supporting subjects, for example, Mathematics and Science.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, there are teachers from the Malay stream who wish to further their studies by going to the university to take up Malay studies. Is this a relevant subject as mentioned by the Parliamentary Secretary?

Sir, I think the number of graduates in Malay studies is already too great, and therefore it is considered not really relevant to our immediate requirements.

(In Malay): Sir, can the Parliamentary Secretary inform this House what are the subjects that are considered relevant? 8.00 p.m.

Order. Moment of interruption.

(In Malay): Sir, I beg leave to withdraw, Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $209,784,470 for Head 0801 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Estimates of Expenditure for the financial year 1st April, 1972, to 31st March, 1973, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.

So be it.

Resolved, "That Parliament do now adjourn." - [Mr Lim Kim San]. Adjourned accordingly at One minute past Eight o'clock p.m.