Hansard, 1973-03-13

asked the Minister for Law and National Development when work will start on the proposed seaside park in the Sembawang Constituency.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Port of Singapore Authority has earmarked the Sembawang seaside park for expansion of the Sembawang port. In exchange for the park plan, the Port of Singapore Authority is prepared to reclaim an equivalent area of foreshore to be developed as a seaside park in Sembawang. My Ministry is discussing this proposal with the PSA. If agreement is reached for the exchange of sites, reclamation work is expected to commence in early 1974, and the seaside park can be built only after reclamation work is completed.

Order read for resumed consideration in Committee of Supply [2nd Allotted Day].

2.32 p.m. Head 0801 --

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*. (* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Ho Kah Leong.). In the kampung areas there still exist common problems which have to take a considerably long time to solve and with much effort. Therefore, in the present circumstances, I find it necessary to speak up in this House with all earnestness to appeal on behalf of the rural people, hoping that the authorities can sympathise with the difficulties and sufferings of these people and to exercise some flexibility in order to allow them to enjoy a more reasonable and better livelihood and a more hygienic way of living. In this way, I hope it can reduce the loss to the country. By loss, I mean the problem of the drinking water of the poor rural people. We all know that in this world if there is no water, it is tantamount to having no blood in our human body. We know that water is precious, especially in Singapore as it has to depend on a neighbouring country for its water supply. Therefore, water is all the more precious to us. In recent months, we use to hear or see on the television, over the radio and Rediffusion, in public places and in the newspapers, the appeal and advice not to waste water. In fact, even if water is inexhaustible, because it is a primary need for life, we have to treasure it. We should not waste it. In the rural areas, there are still some people staying in attap and wooden houses. Originally they had to depend on public standpipes for their drinking water. However, since many public standpipes have been shut or removed, their water supply was also cut off. But for the sake of making a living and because of health, they are willing to save up to pay for the cost of installation of water pipes. However, their applications were turned down because they have no house numbers. Thus they could not get any water supply. As a result, these people have no alternative but to try to get their water supply from their nearest friends or some good samaritans. Even the Minister can appreciate that they cannot live without water. So this puts them in a predicament. They can only get very little water for their daily needs. They pass their days in this way, as though they are living in hell! In the rural areas water is very important because many of them rear domestic livestock and poultry. Poultry animals are not like human beings. They will defecate anywhere and at any time they like. They cannot be taught to go to proper places to do so. In these circumstances how are we going to prevent pollution of the environment? Now our Government has set up a department for the control of environmental pollution. Since some of our people live in such unhygienic environment, how are we going to bring up a new rugged generation? If this situation were to persist for some time, I am sure this will become a burden to the society, and it will also constitute a loss to the country. I believe that Members will also agree with me that in the rural areas, even today there are still many unauthorised attap houses. This is a fact. This is not something that only happens today. You can trace this fact up to the time when Rallies founded Singapore and set up the colonial Government. However, since rural people are in existence, if we do not supply water to them, we can all feel that these unfortunate people who stay in houses without numbers will not be able to live in a hygienic environment. Of course, I do not mean to say that the Government has not done anything. Ever since the present Government came to office, it has done many things. However, we should also remember that in the present circumstances we can still try to solve the problem, if not, the fundamental cause of the ills. The Government can exercise some flexibility and relax its rules and so allow those people who stay in unnumbered houses to install water-pipes in order to solve their problem of drinking water. In this way, the Government is keeping to its policy of giving the people a better environment to live in. This will also promote public health and prevent pollution from worsening. Furthermore, if the Government insists on its hard and fast rule that houses without numbers should not be allowed to install piped water, then our recent efforts in the various campaigns in respect of anti-mosquito, anti-pollution, etc, will be wasted.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, as a Member of Parliament from a rural constituency, I fully endorse and sympathise with the Member for Paya Lebar in respect of the hardships suffered by the rural people of Singapore. It is, therefore, my hope that the Minister will give sympathetic consideration to his appeal. Here I would like to take the opportunity to raise a few points with the Minister. The first question is that of the disposal of industrial waste. We know that industrial development in Singapore is in full swing and is going at a very high rate. As a result there has also been an increase of industrial waste in Singapore. In my view, the present method of disposal of industrial waste is inadequate. Whether it is in respect of a single-storey factory or flatted factories, we can see that around such factories there is always a collection of industrial waste, heaps and heaps of rubbish attracting a lot of flies and other pests. They are also a fire hazard. In fact, some factories have suffered losses as a result of fire. I wonder whether the Minister concerned has any new method of disposal of the accumulating industrial waste in Singapore. The next question I wish to raise is in connection with air pollution in Jurong Town. Jurong Town has developed into an industrial area with many factories in production. There are some 40,000 people living in the residential part of the industrial town. 2.45 p.m. According to a recent survey, there is indication to show that the air in Jurong Town is the most polluted. As a result, there have been many complaints from residents who are concerned over the increasing pollution of the air in their environment. I would, therefore, ask the Minister whether he is aware of the increase of air pollution in Jurong Town. I have received complaints from residents in Jurong Town that every morning when they wake up they can see and feel a layer of black dust on their furniture, or on any flat surface in the house. I would like to ask the Minister whether the black dust is injurious to health and whether steps are taken to ensure that the production of such black dust is minimised. Lastly, Sir, I would like to raise the question regarding the hygienic conditions of Jurong Town. Jurong Town is a model industrial town in Singapore. Tourists very often pay visits to this industrial town. Because of these foreign visits, whether the state of the environment is hygienic or not will leave a good or bad impression on the foreign visitors. Sir, does the Minister know what is the actual position regarding the hygienic environment of Jurong Town? I have seen that in some places the situation is far from satisfactory. Some drains are choked up in one place, and in other places, rubbish is strewn all over. These are the places occupied by foreign workers. Perhaps these imported labourers do not know the legal aspects of our social requirements. There may be cases of those who choose to ignore our requirements. But the fact remains that there are people in Jurong Town who do not keep to public health standards. I wonder whether the Minister concerned can do something about this.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am most happy to learn that the Member for Paya Lebar is now well aware that water is precious. He has further emphasised how precious water is to us in Singapore by enumerating the difficulties which some of his constituents have faced because they suddenly found themselves without water. I think, having understood how precious water is, he will probably understand the reason why we are removing standpipes because a lot of wastage has been caused by these stand-pipes. Sir, the removal of standpipes in the Paya Lebar constituency is not done arbitrarily. I am sure all Members are aware that the Water Department of the Public Utilities Board have, in all instances of the removal of stand-pipes, worked closely with Members of Parliament. The procedure adopted before removing a standpipe is this: the Water Department will consult the Urban and Rural Services Committee which, in turn, will consult the Citizens' Consultative Committee of the area. The Member of Parliament is the adviser to the CCC of his constituency. It is only after these two Committees are satisfied that an alternative supply of water is available, or that there is an alternative supply of water, then and only then will the standpipe be cut off. In the case of the Member for Paya Lebar, I am sure this procedure was followed. As far as I am aware, I have ascertained from the URSC and the CCC that there has been no complaint from him whatsoever. Therefore, I believe there must be a satisfactory alternative supply of water. Anyway, I am glad to note that the problem which he has brought up has made him realise that water is precious, and it is part of his duty to see that he saves water. Coming to the Member for Jurong, let me say that it is neither the policy nor the duty of the Ministry of the Environment to remove trade or industrial refuse. Removal of trade or industrial refuse is part of the manufacturing process. The Government will try its best to remove refuse from trade premises and from houses daily. It is only when there is an increase in absenteeism of the workers, usually during festivals and holidays, when a greater amount of refuse is discarded that there is a pile-up of refuse. This is perhaps also because of the higher standard of living. It is usual to find that there is an increase in absenteeism during public holidays. And to highlight the problem, the newspapers publish a picture of a refuse heap just before it is removed. I think we are probably one of the few countries in the world where refuse is being removed daily, and it is not our duty to remove industrial refuse or trade waste. If the Member for Jurong said that manufacturers are willing to pay for its removal, I am sure there are many contractors who are willing to remove their refuse for them. As for the fire hazard arising from industrial waste, it is largely because the factories have a very irresponsible attitude: they pile up their refuse and leave it there for quite some time. That is where the hazard lies. I would like to reassure the Member for Jurong and the House again that the air in Singapore, including Jurong, is quite pure. We take measurements regularly and when factories violate anti-pollution requirements, action is taken against them. A number of offenders have been warned. In fact, two of them have been prosecuted under the Clean Air Act, because their chimneys have been emitting an excessive amount of smoke. A few others were also prosecuted for open burning of trade waste, thus causing a nuisance. An acid works has also been fined for emitting acidic fumes which exceed the minimum allowed. I think it is advisable for hon. Members to note that open burning of trade and industrial refuse is now prohibited under the Clean Air Act. This Act was gazetted on the 26th of January this year. I would like to assure the Member for Jurong that the Anti-Pollution Unit will continue to closely watch emission from the various factories, and there will be no let up in their surveillance. We will not hesitate to bring the offending factories to court, as most of them have been given more than adequate time to comply with the requirements of the Clean Air Act. As regards pollution in the urban area from motor vehicles, this is being closely watched. The Anti-Pollution Unit is working closely with the Registry of Vehicles on the measures to be taken to control pollution from this source. I am glad also that the Member for Jurong has invited my inspectors to go to Jurong and ticket those people who have been throwing refuse all over the place. I only hope that when summonses arc issued to these offenders, he will not come up to me and ask for the summonses to be waived.

Mr Speaker, Sir, since we are ahead of guillotine time, I wonder whether you will permit mc to say a few words.

Yes.

Sir, I do not wish to participate in this debate, but I just want to make a point of clarification. I think the Minister had side-tracked his answer to the question of the Member for Paya Lebar. What the Member for Paya Lebar asked was that since the standpipe has been removed, the villagers were not able to get any water. So they asked the PUB to supply them with water. But the PUB said. "You do not have a number to your house, and therefore we cannot supply you with water." So under the circumstances how are these villagers going to get their supply of water?

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Member for Bras Basah for his support and assistance in clarifying my question to the Minister. The question I raised was not answered at all. The Minister has not answered my point. My question is: is it possible for water supply to he given to unnumbered houses? In other words, is the PUB prepared to supply water to unnumbered houses? I am not complaining against the removal of stand pipes. I am fully behind the Minister in removing the standpipes, because of the wastage caused. But once the standpipes have been cut off, the PUB must give an alternative water supply to the villagers. The second question I wish to clarify is this. He has said that the CCC and the Member of Parliament for the area have not complained to the Urban and Rural Services Committee. In fact, the URSC informed us that these stand-pipes would be cut off, and I was advised to tell the villagers to apply for an alternative water supply. I asked them to do so, but their applications were turned down. There was a stand-pipe at Lorong Tai Seng market meant for the hawkers to keep their places clean. We brought this up with the URSC and requested for a standpipe to be installed at Lorong Tai Seng, near the market. It was turned down. We did take action on this. My question is not so much about standpipes. My question is: is the Minister prepared to grant water supply to those people living in unnumbered houses? Yes or no? That is all.

Mr Speaker, Sir, let me ask him a question: will he pay for the water consumed by these people? Since they have no house numbers, where can I send the bill to? That is the reason why the Water Department does not approve applications from residents of unnumbered houses, because we cannot send the bill to these people. That is the simple reason. As regards consultation with the URSC, I think we have had none of these problems from any of the other Members, and we do not disconnect the water supply unless the URSC and the CCC are satisfied that there is an alternative water supply. I presume when the CCC says so, it has the benefit of the advice of the Member of Parliament concerned, and unless they say that there is an alternative supply, or there is available an alternative supply, we do not cut off the water supply. We know how difficult it is for people to be without water. Therefore, if the Member for Paya Lebar has really looked into the problem, he would have raised the matter with the CCC and the URSC. We do not cut off water supply without making sure there is an alternative supply. 3.00 p.m.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, before I withdraw my amendment, I would like to tell the Minister that in 1972 I made an application for a standpipe to be erected at Lorong Tai Seng market, but this was turned down. The crux of the matter is still this. The Minister says that it is difficult to send the water bills to the unnumbered houses. It is a very simple matter. Even though there are no houses in Singapore we may have to build thousands upon thousands of houses for the people. Assuming that there are no numbers, we can still send the bills to the houses. It is as simple as that.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not number the houses for people.

(In Mandarin): Sir, the question is not whether you are responsible for giving the house numbers. You can give a special number for the supply of water and electricity. Then with that special number, you will be able to get the bills paid.

Sir, this is the first time I have heard of a "water number". What is a water number? Who gives the water number? And with the water number, can you find the addresses? The answer is that, if you do not have numbers to our houses, you do not get water.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Ministry of the Environment is a new Ministry. The consumers' numbers are available. We can ask the URSC.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I think the answer is a very simple one. If these attap house dwellers at the moment have no house numbers with which to apply to the PUB for water supplies, then the simple thing for them to do is to come to the Ministry of National Development, Building Control Division, for assistance in applying for house numbers to be given by the Property Tax Division. That is the proper way to solve the problem. If the Member has any special difficulties, he can write to my Ministry for attention.

(In Mandarin): I would like to thank the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for National Development for his answer. My concern is that when these people who live in unnumbered houses write to the department, then they would be considered as dwellers of unauthorised houses and their houses would be pulled down.

(In Mandarin): This is not a question of the demolition of unauthorised houses. But if the Member has any difficulty we are prepared at any time to give him assistance.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I am not satisfied with the answer given by the Minister for the Environment. I would like to call for a Division. Question put, "That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001."

Division. The House divided: Ayes. 1: Noes, 37; Abstentions, 6; Absent. 21. Ayes Noes Tay Boon Too A. Rahim Ishak Ahmad Mattar Abstentions Ang Kok Peng Baptist, Ivan Abdul Aziz Karim Chai Chong Yii Govindaswamy, P. Chin Ham Tong Ho Kah Leong Ch'ng Jit Koon Ho See Beng Chor Yeok Eng Hwang Soo Jin Conceicao, J. F. Tan Eng Liang Fong Sip Chee Ho Cheng Choon Absent Hon Sui Sen Jek Yeun Thong Ang Nam Piau Lai Tha Chai Barker, E. W. Lee Yiok Seng Chan Chee Seng Lim Kim San Cheong Yuen Chee Mohd. Ariff Bin Suradi Chiang Hai Ding Ng Kah Ting Absent:-cont. Noes:-cont. Chua Sian Chin Ng Yeow Chong Goh Keng Swee Ong Leong Boon Govindasamy, N. Ong Soo Chuan Lee Chiaw Meng Ong Teng Cheong Lee Khoon Choy Phey Yew Kok Lee Kuan Yew Phua Bah Lee Lim Guan Hoo Rahmat Bin Kenap Al-Haj Ong Pang Boon Rodrigo, L. P. Othman Bin Wok Seah Mui Kok Rajaratnam, S. Sha'ari Bin Tadin Selvadurai, P. Sia Kah Hui Tan, Augustine, H. H. Sia Khoon Seong Toh Chin Chye Sim Boon Woo Wong Lin Ken Tang See Chim Ya'acob Bin Mohamed Teong Eng Siong Yong Nyuk Lin Wee Toon Boon Yeo Choo Kok Yeo Toon Chia Yeoh Ghim Seng Question on the amendment accordingly negatived.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1071. Sir, since the implementation of legislation for the control of pollution in Singapore, there has been a remarkable improvement in the environment. However, I wish to point out the dirty and smelly condition of the rubbish collection centres located in different parts of the island. Obviously certain centres do not have enough containers for the collection of rubbish. Consequently, there is a fantastic amount of rubbish spilling on to the road resulting in dirty and smelly roads. One clear example is the rubbish collection centre next to Kandang Kerbau market. Not only does the rubbish spill on to the road but also into the canal next to it. All efforts will be wasted if the hawkers are careless or if there are insufficient bins at the collection centres. It is very unhygienic for health and could result in the breeding of flies. I hope the department concerned would look into it and see that the rubbish is cleared at least twice a day, even on holidays and Sundays, especially in the hawker areas and housing estates. 3.15 p.m.

Sir, we try our best to clear all the refuse. But, as I said, during holidays there is usually an increase in absenteeism and also an increase in rubbish because of the rise in the standard of living. The Member for Anson suggested that we remove the rubbish at least twice a day. 1 have known of instances where we remove the rubbish five times a day and the rubbish still keep piling up. We are trying to solve the problem by mechanisation, and if the Member will help us recruit workers, probably the problem could be more easily solved.

Sir, the Minister for the Environment has asked me to recruit workers. What does he mean by that? He is a responsible Minister. He should recruit the workers. If he cannot get the workers in Singapore, he should import them from other countries under an agreement.

Do you want to take a vote on that, Mr P. Govindaswamy?

No, Sir,I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move. That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1182. Sir, we should feel proud that foreigners visiting our country praise Singapore for its cleanliness. The cleanliness of our city is well looked after. But, to my surprise, the rural areas are neglected. During my periodical tour of my constituency, the residents approached me and complained that refuse in the kampungs were not removed, sonic-times for weeks. Sir, I think the other Members of the rural constituencies also face the same problem. I appeal to the Minister to immediately look into this matter with great urgency and to pay more attention to the health of the rural people. Sir, I would also like to bring to the attention of the Minister the problem of inconsiderate drivers of Public Health vehicles which carry refuse for dumping at Koh Sek Lim Road. They drive at a pretty fast speed along the narrow roads, thereby spilling the refuse on to the roads and, at the same time, this is quite dangerous to the children in the villages. I hope that the Minister will take immediate action to remedy the situation.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I presume the Member for Changi must be talking about rural areas which are inaccessible either to the vehicles of the Ministry or to hand-carts, because normally where premises are accessible to the Ministry's vehicles, the refuse is collected direct. Where premises are not accessible to the vehicles of the Ministry, the refuse is collected by hand-carts. It is only in places where it is inaccessible either to lorries or to hand-carts that we ask the residents to bring their refuse to the collection centre. I have already mentioned just now that there is a shortage of workers and to remove refuse by hand is labour-intensive. The problem here is to find enough men to do that. However, as I said, we are mechanising, and I hope that with more mechanisation we can make-do with less manual labour. With regard to the complaint about inconsiderate driving by drivers of the Ministry's vehicles along Koh Sek Lim Road, it is difficult to take action. We have asked our inspectors and drivers to be considerate and to be careful in what they do. But if the Member for Changi can give me specific instances of inconsiderate driving, resulting in refuse spilling on to the road, action will be taken.

Sir, I will certainly give the Minister specific instances. In view of the explanation, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1261. Sir, in moving this amendment, may I range over my next amendment* on subhead 1441? (* The amendment reads as follows: (5)That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by 510 in respect of subhead 1441.)

Yes.

Sir, I have been noticing that many drains have been found to be choked and the flow of water is being obstructed, especially with the underground and the monsoon drains. It is therefore necessary to clear these drains as often as possible. Some of them are found to be awfully smelly and filthy, for example, the drain along North Bridge Road opposite the former Raffles Institution. Sir, I would also like to know the progress of the construction work at Rochore Canal, which will provide a better drainage system. It looks as if the work has stopped. If so, why is the work left uncompleted? Sir, I would also like to voice out that there are many places, especially at construction sites, where stagnant pools of water are found, and these become grounds for mosquito breeding. This may affect the health of our citizens, even for the people living in the Housing Board flats. I wonder what is the Department doing to get rid of this menace. Although malaria is not a common disease in Singapore, it should nevertheless be completely eradicated.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in spite of the "Anti-Litter Campaign", people still keep throwing refuse into the drains. As a result, the drains are choked, mosquitoes breed in them, giving rise to smells and all that. We are well aware of the problem, especially with mosquitoes. The health inspectors do go round to persuade contractors to take preventive measures against mosquito breeding. We try to clean the drains as often as possible. But here we must seek the co-operation of the public in trying not to throw refuse or sullage water into the drains so as to block the free flow of water. We are carrying out regular oiling in all these places. The inspectors do go round to the contractors and warn them of the dangers of mosquito breeding. If they do not conform and do not take preventive measures, they are summoned and fined. To assure the Member for Anson, I would like to clarify that mosquitoes commonly found breeding in construction sites are of the Aedes and Culex species, and they are not vectors of malaria. The construction work at Rochore Canal Road has stopped because the original contractor has failed. We have suspended him and we have got a new contractor. The work will resume as soon as the new contractor can get to the work site.

Sir, in view of the Minister's explanation, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to he allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1541*. (* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy.) Sir, the policy of licensing hawkers who were hawking before 1968 should be reviewed, especially in the case of Changi constituency. Hon. Members of this House will agree with me that Changi was hard hit economically by the British withdrawal. Many of the former RAF employees, whether directly or indirectly employed, were out of employment. Some of them were unable to get other jobs and they turned to hawking for their livelihood. This took place two or three years ago. With the present policy of licensing hawkers, these people are therefore not qualified to get a hawker's licence. I would strongly urge the Minister to reconsider the present hawker's licensing policy to enable many of the present hawkers, who were doing such business for their livelihood for the last two or three years to get a licence.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I have received many complaints about some hawker inspectors not carrying out their duties justly and reasonably. The complaints were that they issued summonses to some hawkers biasly. There was an instance when many hawkers were found to cause obstruction to a passage way and yet only one was served with a summons. And when the hawker inspector was questioned for his actions, he answered. "That is not your duty." It shows that there is prejudice and injustice going on in this regard. The department concerned should take action to stop this state of affairs. Sir, I wonder whether during festival days, rules relating to obstruction of roads or public places could be relaxed so that the poor hawkers can do their business more freely in view of the fact that business is brisk on such days. I hope the department concerned would be lenient and sympathetic towards the hawkers during such periods.

Mr Speaker, Sir, much as I sympathise with the Member for Changi with regard to the plight of his constituents, the department's policy of not giving new hawker licences is a good one. Otherwise, the policy that we are carrying out now of resiting all bona fide hawkers would go awry. We are already finding great difficulty in resiting bona fide hawkers, i.e, hawkers who were registered prior to 1968. If, at the same time, we are to increase the number of new hawkers, then it would be an impossible job to resite all of them. I doubt very much whether new hawkers can be registered. It is not our policy to encourage hawking as such because it has brought about a lot of pollution. As it is, we are already finding our hands full with controlling whatever pollution there is. 3.30 p.m. We have looked into this problem and, as I have said, the Ministry itself is short of workers. In this respect we have gone down to his area and we have so far employed 50 of those who were retrenched by the British forces. There is no reason why some of these retrenched workers cannot be retrained because quite a large number of new industries are being set up in Changi. If there are real cases of hardship, perhaps they can be brought to my notice. We could employ these people in the Ministry of the Environment to help us clear the rubbish and keep the place clean. The Member for Anson said that he has received many complaints about discrimination by hawker inspectors. The Ministry takes a very serious view of any discriminatory practices by hawker inspectors. Largely, I think the complaint is not so much that they are discriminating; it is perhaps because they have done their job very well. However, if there are real cases of discrimination, they can be brought to my notice with specific details and action will be taken. I am very much worried by his request for relaxation of the rules during festive seasons. Once you relax, you allow people to do as they like - illegal hawkers will come in; hawkers will obstruct traffic during festive seasons- and this will become a habit and compound the problem. As it is, we are having great difficulty in keeping these people within the law, it is easy to relax rules, but very hard to bring them back to observing them again. Therefore, we cannot make exceptions even on festival days.

By "relax", I mean just close an eye! That is all.

Sir, if I should close an eye and ask my inspector to close an eye, Members will come up to me and say that my inspectors have been discriminating, "How is it that on such a day, they did not summon so-and-so? And yet today he is being summoned?"

In view of the explanation given by the Minister, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendments stood on the Order Paper Supplement: Mr P. Govindaswamy: (7) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1621. Mr Ng Kah Ting: (8) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 11.

I am not moving amendment (7), Sir.

Mr Ng Kah Ting is not here. Amendment (9), Mr Teong.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 19*. (* The same amendment also stood in the name of Tuan Haji Mohd. Ariff Bin Suradi.) Sir, our Government has done all it can to look after the welfare of our hawkers. Hawkers were formerly under the control of the Ministry of Health, but now that they come under the control of the Ministry of the Environment, many new measures have been introduced, for example, the resiting of hawkers, and issuing of licences to hawkers to enable them to carry out their business in hawkers centres. These hawkers now ply only on one side of the road, whereas previously they used to ply on both sides. This has helped to ease traffic congestion. We have also built hawkers centres, for example, near Newton Circus, 6th m.s. Bukit Timah. All these are very good measures for the benefit of the hawkers. In the current Estimates, there is a provision of $5 million for development and improvement to markets and hawkers' sites. I would like to ask the Minister two questions concerning this provision. Firstly, where will the new hawkers' sites be? I know there is one in Sembawang; so I am not going to ask one for Sembawang, but for other areas. Yesterday the Minister said that other areas will be looked after too. So where will the new hawkers' sites be? Secondly, what are the old markets that are going to be developed and improved?

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, during the cholera epidemic 2 1/2 years ago, the area that was affected by cholera was Kampung Kembangan and its neighbourhood. According to a statement of the Ministry of Health at that time, the condition of the stalls was poor. The hawkers had to stop their business on the instructions of the Ministry concerned. The livelihood of these hawkers was badly affected. Although they were given assistance by the Social Welfare Department, it was only given as a token of sympathy by the Government. It was far from sufficient to meet the needs of their families. I urge the Minister for the Environment to take steps to provide a hawkers centre in the Kampung Kembangan area so that such an epidemic would not happen again.

First, to answer the Member for Sembawang. We are building three hawkers centres: at Empress Place, Telok Ayer Market and North Bridge Road. They are expected to be completed this year. These are the old projects. Tenders for hawkers centres at Jalan Besar and Beach Road are now being called. In addition, there are eight more projects in various parts of Singapore. They will be implemented this year. The above 13 hawkers centres, plus one centre already built at Yung Sheng Road, Jurong, will accommodate about 1,600 hawkers in all, and the estimated cost is about $7.4 million. Coming to the Member for Kampung Kembangan, may I say that the building of a hawkers centre will not stop any epidemic of enteric diseases. I think it is more the practice of personal hygiene. Regardless of whether they are accommodated in a centre or hawking. If hawkers were to practise personal hygiene, they are not likely to spread diseases, and therefore their livelihood and the health of their customers will not be endangered. It is unlikely that they will be ordered to stop selling unless there is a danger of their spreading diseases. For instance, at the last and biggest cholera epidemic outbreak we ever had, there was a total of 114 cases, with three deaths. Twelve carriers were detected. Fortunately, we were able to control the outbreak. Most of the victims ate from hawker stalls. Out of 641 food samples taken from hawkers in the affected area, 357 samples, or more than half of the hawkers were found to sell food contaminated with faecal coliform organisms. These are germs found in faeces of human beings. In other words, you find traces of faeces in the food. These findings indicate that the food handlers had not practised personal hygiene. Therefore, even if we move them into hawkers centres so long as they are not careful in their personal hygiene, there will be an epidemic and they will have to stop selling. There is going to be a major development in the Kampung Kembangan area. In common with all the other areas where development will take place, there will be plans for markets and hawkers centres in Kampung Kembangan. So if the Member will bide his time, he will have all these developments in his constituency.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister has answered my question satisfactorily, and I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 20. Sir, mechanisation of the Public Cleansing Services is given a provision half as much more than last year's Estimates. I do not know what type of equipment will be necessary for these services. But what I would like to bring to the notice of the Minister is that the refuse, that is being dumped in bins for daily collection by this Service, is not collected daily because the refuse vehicles cannot enter into these areas. Hand-carts cannot go through these lorongs and lanes because they are damaged, as for example, the roads and lanes in Kampung Kembangan. These hand-carts collect refuse from only five or six houses where the refuse is being thrown. These workers find difficulty in pushing their hand-carts because they are so full of rubbish. Moreover, the roads are not properly surfaced. Such places which are inaccessible to lorries and hand-carts should be improved. House owners pay for such cleansing services every month, whether the refuse is collected or not. Therefore, 1 feel that people who send their refuse to rubbish dumps elsewhere should be exempted from paying for this service. 3.45 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, it is very difficult to exempt payment of refuse fees to only a section of the population. The only thing we can do, Sir, is to see that we have enough people to collect the refuse. There is a shortage of labour. However, we are trying out a new way of collecting waste by encouraging people whose premises are not accessible either to hand-carts or trucks, to put their refuse in paper bags, and dump the bags at the refuse centre. They will probably find this method of refuse disposal much easier. But it will be difficult to exempt a certain portion of the population from paying refuse fees. Probably in the course of development within the next few months or years, the area mentioned by the hon. Member may have a few roads or tracks opened so that the hand-carts can go in. We will look into this matter, but it is impossible to exempt them from payment of fees.

(In Malay): Sir, in view of the explanation given by the Minister, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 21. Sir, I think acquisition of land for refuse disposal should not be the only means of refuse disposal. At the same time whilst I appreciate the difficulty involved and the time needed for the refuse incinerator and compaction plant to be built, the conventional means of merely dumping trade and household refuse at the refuse disposal sites is both unhealthy and "anti-environment". I am sure the Members will agree with me on this, because this will cause air pollution, not forgetting the stench emanating from the rubbish heaps. For example, I have received many complaints from my constituents regarding the stench and breeding of flies in the Tampines refuse dumping ground. I wonder if steps are being taken to eradicate this. As a matter of interest, Sir, the Housing and Development Board is at the present moment, building flats at the Tampines Estate, just next to the Tampines dumping ground. When these flats are ready, and with the present Tampines dumping ground still in existence, and with still more refuse being dumped there, I do not know just what will be the reaction of future residents of this Estate. Sir, under this vote, more land is being acquired for this purpose. In this respect, I would like to know from the Minister when will the refuse incinerator and compaction plant be built, and where will they be sited? I hope it will not be in Punggol again!

Mr Speaker, Sir, refuse sites are usually located in tidal swamp lands. For obvious reasons, I think it is advisable for me to indicate the actual locations, as the Ministry is in the process of acquiring these lands. We are well aware that with the increase in population and with our limited land space, we have to think of new ways of disposing refuse. So the uses of incinerator and compaction plant are possible ways. But this is something which you are not likely to go ahead with lightly because the cost of the compaction plant and incinerator is in the region of $100 million! There is also the problem of pollution: how big is the incinerator and where is it going to be sited? What sort of compaction plant will you have, and where will you locate it? If you locate the plant at Tampines, the Member for Punggol will again complain because, in addition to the smell, he will get the noise. And if the incinerator is also there, he will get air pollution too. Therefore, this matter needs very careful study by specialists. Anyway, we arc embarking on this study, and it will be some time before we come out with the appropriate method or methods suitable for our use. I hope that answers the question.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister has not answered one part of my question, i.e., whether his Ministry will take steps to minimise the pollution emanating from the Tampines dumping ground. I have said that, apart from air pollution, there is the question of breeding of mosquitoes and flies, which is so acute that I have to come to this House every year to raise this problem. The hon. Minister for Health and Hone Affairs can bear me out on this. I would like the Minister for the Environment to assure the House that he will take steps to minimise air pollution and fly-breeding in the Tampines dumping ground. I know very well that we have to use that area as a dumping ground because it is a swampy area and affected by tidal waves. But nevertheless, Sir, steps must still be taken to minimise this inconvenience caused to the people living there as it is a danger to health.

Sir, it is a very good sign that people are complaining about smell. It means they are becoming aware of the need for a clean environment, and are more voluble now. However, if you live somewhere near a dumping ground, the smell is just unavoidable. We can keep it to the minimum. I believe the department has been quite efficient, and they have been keeping the smell down to the lowest minimum possible. If you live next to a septic tank, then of course you cannot avoid smelling what is in it. But we are doing everything possible technically, to keep the pollution down to the barest minimum. For the information of the Member, we do spray the dumping ground regularly with anti-malarial or anti-mosquito oil, and insecticides. We do not let the refuse rot to high heaven. We try to keep pollution down to the minimum. It is just too bad if you live in that area where the smell is unavoidable.

In fact, I was in that area before the dumping ground was there. Anyway, Sir, I must thank the Minister for his reply, and I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, with your permission I would like to move my amendment together with amendment (14)*. * Amendment (14), standing in the name of Tuan Haji Mohd Ariff Bin Suradi, reads as follows: That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 45.

Yes.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $l0 in respect of subhead 38. Sir, this year's provision for the Siglap Canal Improvement project is six times more than last year's. Although the provision has increased from year to year, the development of the canal at Siglap, in Kampung Kembangan constituency, has not progressed much. Digging of sand is not being carried out there. Sir, the majority of the area in Kampung Kembangan constituency consists of sand. During the rainy season, sand is usually washed into the drains. As time goes by, the condition of the drains grows from bad to worse, and water cannot flow properly because of the lack of attention given to this canal. Sir, I would like to request the Minister concerned to look into this problem so that this canal could be properly maintained and that the area is not polluted by this canal.

Sir, contrary to what the Member for Kampung Kembangan may think, the Siglap canal is being maintained regularly. I agree there is a lot of sand. This is largely because of the development and earth-works going on in the area there. When there is heavy rain, sand gets washed into the canal, and this problem is accentuated by the sand-bar at the south-end of the canal. However, steps arc being taken to widen the canal and to bring the peak fall beyond the sand-bar into a deeper part of the sea, so that the sand that goes through will not pile up on the sand-bar and thus block the canal. The work is in hand. That is the reason why $600,000 is required for it.

(In Malay): Sir, in view of the explanation given, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 42. Sir, the provision allocated for Minor Drainage Improvement is $450,000, as compared with $300,000 last year. With the extra provision of $150,000 this year, I hope the drains in most of the roads in Kampung Kembangan can be repaired. For example, the drains on both sides of Changi Road have broken down and the same condition can be said for the drains along the roads made under section 19 of the Local Government Integration Act. The drains are not properly made. As a result, water cannot flow properly, so much so that the owners of land in the area had to pay for the repair of roads and drains in front of their houses. This is because the drains are not properly constructed resulting in poor water drainage. Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister has said just now that water is precious and that we should not waste water. But I know that a lot of drains are being flushed with potable water from hydrants. Why cannot these drains be flushed with effluent water transported by lorries? Is this not one of the ways to waste water which is, of course, precious? 4.00 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I think the Member for Kampung Kembangan will recall that a large number of drainage improvement projects have been completed in his constituency. For example, there are two main drainage outlets, one along Jalan Kembangan and the other along Jalan Wijaya, not to mention a number of subsidiary drainage projects which have been completed. As 1 have said just now in reply to certain questions raised by him under another subhead, there is going to be a major development in his area, and there is no point in spending money on improving drains when they will only be temporary. However, where it is found that a minor improvement could improve the drainage, and where it is feasible to do so, money will be spent on it. But where a major development will affect the drainage, then we will just do a little bit of repair work. With regard to using potable water to flush the drains, I would like to say that this practice has been stopped for almost a year. We have not used potable water to flush drains, unless for health reasons we have to use potable water, for example, in the markets and crowded hawker centres. Much as we like to use effluent water to flush drains, it is not safe to do so because it might contaminate the food. At the moment effluent water is not as clean or as pure and sterile as potable water. We are, however, working on a system of tertiary treatment of effluent water. By further treatment, we hope to be able to bring it up to the standard of potable water. By then we could probably use effluent water for flushing. But at the moment to use effluent water for flushing drains would endanger the health of our citizens. In the process of flushing, sprays of effluent water may drop on to the food or may spill on to passers-by. Therefore, though water is precious, the health of our citizens is more precious.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, the drains I referred to are the drains which had been made in the developed areas, at Lorong Maideen, Lorong Melayu, etc. These drains were made under section 19 of the Local Government Integration Act with funds collected from the owners. However, these drains, for which the owners have paid, have not been properly made and, as a result, water does not flow properly. Will the Minister concerned consider improving these drains without any extra cost, because this has been fixed by the PWD?

Mr Speaker, Sir, there is no doubt that where work has not been properly done, it will be rectified.

(In Malay): I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment (14)* has been dealt with Amendment (15), Mr Ng Kah Ting. (* See footnote, col. 760.)

Mr Speaker, Sir, 1 beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 52. Sir, this subhead concerns the Serangoon Sewerage Scheme. I have just one simple question to ask of the Minister: will this Serangoon Sewerage Scheme be extended to the Upper Serangoon constituency, and ultimately to Punggol constituency? If so, when?

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Punggol is going to be very disappointed. At the moment it is not likely that the sewerage scheme will be extended to the Punggol area. Under our sewerage scheme, we are undertaking to sewer the whole of Singapore in as short a time as possible. For this, we require a lot of money. It is quite costly to sewer, and we must get loans from the International Bank for Reconstruction and Development (IBRD). As Members know, when the IBRD lends money for any project, it must be economically feasible. Comparatively speaking, Punggol has a lower density of population than the other areas of Singapore. Therefore, to sewer the area there is not economically feasible. I think Punggol has a very low priority in our sewerage scheme. But if something should happen, such as a major development in Punggol, perhaps this question can be reviewed. Moreover, Punggol is in a very low-lying area, and it will cost quite a lot of money to sewer such areas.

Mr Speaker, Sir, on the last note of the Minister concerned, I mentioned just now that the Housing and Development Board is at the present moment building more than a thousand flats in that part of Punggol, along Tampines Road. And next to this Housing and Development Board project, there is a major scheme going on because an area of not less than 60 acres have already been acquired. I believe one-third of it is under construction at the moment.

If that is so, there is hope for him, but I cannot tell him definitely whether this is in the Punggol area. I have not been there. But where the Housing and Development Board has a housing project, there is sewerage.

Sir, in that case, I must say that the Minister has been misinformed. That part of Tampines Road definitely comes under Punggol area, because I happen to live there, and I am also required under Acquisition order to move. The Minister may say that Punggol rates very low in priority for a sewerage scheme. All I am asking is: when will this sewerage scheme be extended to the Upper Serangoon constituency, in which there is a great deal of development going on, and whether it will ultimately extend to Punggol constituency?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not good at working out time-tables. But if he says that there is going to be development there, so be it. There will be sewers. I hope that will satisfy him. And if he says that that part of Tampines is in Punggol, well, he lives there and he knows better.

On that note, Sir, may I thank the Minister for his patience. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of item (01) of subhead 58. Mr Speaker, Sir, only a few residents of wooden houses in Kampung Pachitan have been notified that the sewerage scheme, now being carried out in Lengkong Tiga, would be extended to their homes. These are houses sited close to the main sewers. However, many other residents in the Kampung Pachitan area have not been given such notices. I would like to know from the Minister whether these few residents, who have been so notified, could be exempted from payment of sewer connection fees.

Mr Speaker, Sir, it is true that only a few of the residents in front of Lengkong Tiga have been asked to install modern sanitation, while quite a large number of the others have not been asked to do so. This is because the sewerage system only goes as far as the front of these few houses. However, whether you install it now or later, it is ultimately a question of time. But as far as the installation is concerned, I will not press the point. I would only say that if I were the owner or if I were the tenant, since there is the opportunity for me to get a connection to the sewage system, I may as well take advantage of it. It will probably be cheaper to do it now than five years later.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, the question is that the land does not belong to them. They only rent the premises. Therefore, if they were to install modern sanitation, it will cost them thousands of dollars. And later if the landowners decide to take back the land, they would suffer a loss.

Mr Speaker, Sir, as I have said, I will leave the option to them.

(In Malay): With this explanation, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $53,141,850 for Head 0801 ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $36,194,100 for Head 0801 ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

I propose to take the Suspension now. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

I suspend the sitting now and shall take the Chair again at 4.45 p.m. Sitting accordingly suspended at 4.14 p.m. until 4.45 p.m. Sitting resumed at 4.45 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, may I seek your consent, and the general assent of hon. Members, to move a motion for the rising of Parliament before 8 p.m. today? I propose to move that the adjournment be taken at the conclusion of the consideration of Head 0901 today.

I give my consent. Do I have the general assent of Members for the motion to be moved by the Minister, and the Question thereon proposed? Hon. Members indicated assent. Resolved, "That, notwithstanding the Standing Orders, the adjournment today be moved immediately after the conclusion of the consideration of Head 0901." -[Mr Jek Yeun Thong]

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

4.47 p.m. Head 0901 --

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0901 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead l001*. (* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Ho Kah Leong.) Sir, culture and art have a very important influence on the life of a people. A country must have flourishing cultural and artistic activities to enrich the spiritual life of the people. It is only then that the people will be encouraged spiritually to take part in other endeavours for the interest of the country and the society. Sir, in the field of culture and artistic activities, there have been a number of foreign cultural delegations performing in Singapore, such as the Russian and the North Korean dance troupes and so on. They have achieved a very high standard of the performing art. They provided our people with an eyeful of what cultural life is like in other countries. The Ministry of Culture has done its part in the promotion and the development of culture and art. It is the responsibility of the Ministry of Culture to develop the fine traditions of culture, art, music, painting and other literary works. Encouragement must be given in all these fields to ensure that activities of this nature will flourish in Singapore. At the same time, the Ministry of Culture should formulate a definite policy on culture for the development of culture in Singapore. For example, a publication bureau or a publishing house should be established to encourage local writers to have their work published. This is one of the concrete forms of encouragement for local writers who can be encouraged to write works of local content. There are many causes for the low level of publications in Singapore. It includes, firstly, the fact that publishers are not willing to publish local works. Secondly, the writers are not able to write on a full-time basis even with the necessary encouragement. So if assistance can be given in this field, I am sure the situation will improve. Sir, in the field of music, the Ministry of Culture should also do more promotional work. In this respect, the National Theatre under the Ministry of Culture should set up a National Symphony Orchestra. At the moment, there is a Chinese orchestra in the National Theatre. With the setting up of a National Symphony Orchestra, we can have better performance at our national functions or festival occasions. On this point, when the Minister of Defence opened the Seiwen Japanese Garden at Jurong, he made an appeal for the setting up of a National Symphony Orchestra. He said that this was an important and urgent matter, and I endorse his view. A National Symphony Orchestra will be of great importance for Singapore in the inculcation of music consciousness among the people and the attraction of tourists. The Ministry of Culture has done a great deal in the promotion of cultural activities such as the organisation of Music for Everyone, concerts and other activities. But the performances are limited and the effect has not been so wide. I hope that the Ministry of Culture will give encouragement to local music groups or give them financial assistance for the purchase of musical instruments and for expenses incurred in rehearsals. At the same time, the Ministry of Culture can also encourage cultural activities in the various schools by making arrangements for school children to perform at the National Theatre or for Radio and TV. In this way, the younger generation will be given the necessary encouragement to form a successor to our cultural effort. Sir, radio and television command a large audience. And the radio and TV programmes will therefore certainly have a great impact on the audience. If the programmes on TV and radio are of an educative nature, the people will get not only entertainment hut also education at the same time, if the programmes put up by Radio and Television Singapore are nothing more than decadent music about love and so on, and a lot of fuss which they call "comic sketches", then such programmes will be of no value to the audience. Instead, they will have a bad effect on the young audience or viewers. I am not denying the fact that there are good programmes broadcast by RTS. I am just making a fair comment. There are, of course, good programmes such as Youth Festival, and the various programmes on forums, reports and reviews, and "What's Happening in Singapore", and a host of others. But very few such programmes are broadcast or televised. I think programmes of this nature should be increased both in scope and in volume so that those farcical programmes can be reduced to a minimum. Sir, sometime ago in order to promote cultural exchanges, the Ministry of Culture sent a cultural delegation to Adelaide, and this was well acclaimed overseas. It is a good plan to send cultural troupes overseas. It will give encouragement to our local artistes and will also promote cultural understanding between countries. I would like to ask the Minister for Culture whether there are any plans to send cultural delegations overseas this year. The Ministry of Culture has conducted healthy and sound cultural activities such as concerts at grass-root level in the rural areas. But this programme was stopped. I do not know for what reason. This kind of programme should be continued and promoted and the contents of these concerts should be enriched to bring culture to the people and to ensure that the broad masses of the people can also enjoy cultural programmes. I hope the Ministry will revive the programme of holding concerts in the rural areas.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, last year when we debated this item, I raised a matter with the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture, in the absence of the Minister who was then away. During that debate, I made the proposal for an open air art gallery at the Queen Elizabeth Walk for local artists to display their work and to provide portrait painting for tourists. This could give encouragement to local artists and could turn the place into a tourist attraction. I also made the proposal that some form of sculpture work should be on display at traffic islands. We could invite local sculptors to put up their work on some outstanding or convenient places, like traffic islands. At that time, the Parliamentary Secretary promised to look into the matter and give me an answer. And I am raising the matter again because I am still waiting for an answer.

Sir, may I have your permission to speak now, as I do not wish to speak on amendment (9)* when it comes up later? * Amendment (9), standing in the names of Messrs Teong Eng Siong, P. Govindaswamy and Ng Kah Ting, reads as follows: That the sum to be allocated for Head 0901 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1751.

Yes.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Sembawang has mentioned about television programmes and I would like to link it up with cinema shows. In recent years, too many films portraying violence, vengeance, gangsterism, and drug-taking, which are dominant issues of the day, have been shown in our cinemas. These films, I would like to believe, have caused and will cause considerable harm to our society, a major section of which consists of people below the age of 21. Moreover, in the last few years, the film distributors have been importing and exhibiting such films which have drawn full houses. Alas, sad to say, there has been a marked increase in the number of cases of juvenile delinquency, armed robbery and drug-taking. This issue has been discussed very widely. There has been a lot of allegations as to who is responsible. 5.00 p.m. May I say that before there is any damage beyond repair, so to speak, can the Minister indicate to this House as to whether his Ministry will take steps to ensure that the public exhibition of such films will be cut down. But I must point out that mere censoring of certain parts of such films will not serve any purpose at all as the main theme will remain, thereby allowing the obvious impressions to take effect. One has only to look up the newspapers any day to notice that such films are being shown in many of the cinemas. I would therefore like to suggest to the Minister for Culture to introduce the classification of films, and that film distributors be asked to exhibit films of a classical content, as for example, those portraying historical events, and not films depicting violence and vengeance.

Sir, I thank you for the opportunity you give me to say a few things about the Government's cultural policy. Culture may be related to the group aspirations of a people and the embodiment of their values, their hopes and their strivings; in other words, their way of life. Where our own cultural development is concerned, thought and extensive thought should be given to some integrated progress of our way of life. In other words, some sort of a general policy must be thought out about our total development. Emphasis has been laid on our material development - on hard work, determination to succeed, achievement-orientation; and all this is certainly a manifestation of our collective aspirations. But there is also another side to our life - the spiritual, the ethical and the specifically cultural. What quality is there, with regard to this aspect of development? What sort of encouragement are we giving to cultural development? What realistic sums of money are we voting for this? What administrative devices are we working out to encourage this cultural development? The Member for Sembawang has made some practical suggestions. I am merely speaking in terms of general responses, because this question of support for culture should be essentially Government's responsibility. We cannot leave the question of cultural development to some voluntary organisations to which we vote token sums. Government has to bear the main brunt of working out a policy and supporting such a policy. We have heard frequently of an emphasis on quality of life. In what does this quality consist? Does it mean a better car, a bigger swimming pool, or more fashionable clothes? I think much encouragement should be given to a debate on this topic. Development does not consist only of material development. It is when we recognise common spiritual and cultural forms, and when such forms become familiar to all, then only will our society become cohesive. It is because of this social cohesion that we may succeed in resisting the debilitating effects resulting from our exposure to industrialisation and modernisation. We are under some sort of onslaught of the trivial from the West. We are undergoing a sort of material siege, a striving after material things as we can see representing a marked phenomenon in our environment. This striving is divisive, because each thinks of himself, each tries to elbow the other out of the way. Any cultural policy should aim at the participation of the greatest number of people, deriving enjoyment out of cultural expression, even if it is sport, which is one aspect of culture. Culture is not elitist. If enjoyment of what is quality in our environment is confined only to a few, this is elitist culture. For this reason, I shall mention later when we talk on Broadcasting, how important it is for the mass media to help in stimulating and disseminating mass appreciation of culture.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the debate on Culture is bound to get very abstract - words like spiritual, integrated progress, achievement-orientation, achievement manifestation, quality of life will crop up and people can take sides in different ways. In order not to get into difficulties, I propose to get down to something realistic. The Ministry of Culture will continue to promote good and healthy culture for all races, as suggested by Members. I myself feel that the cultural activity of a people in a country cannot alone be protected, promoted or initiated by just one single Ministry. It requires the effort of the whole nation. People from every walk of life will have to contribute towards building a cultural heritage for' the people. Because our nation is a new one, it is very necessary for us to drive this point home: that not just one Ministry, or any one particular official, should be held responsible, and if we fail to provide a good and progressive culture, then the whole society will have to be blamed for its shortsightedness. To reply now to the points raised by Members. The first point is that raised by the Member for Sembawang about setting up a publications department to help local writers, and to give them encouragement. I would say that this is a very good suggestion, and we will, of course, look into the matter. I myself feel that we need a market for these writers. It is no use producing books if you can only sell a few thousand copies. The writer would not be able to make a living just by writing books. Therefore, we really have to look for a market for these writers if they are to be protected. For a population of two million which is made up of different language streams, I think it may be difficult for local writers to go ahead if they are to make a living purely by writing. In any case we will give them all the help that a writer requires. On the symphony orchestra, it is a good suggestion but it may not be realistic to start one straightaway because, according to our estimation, if we were to have a full-fledged symphony orchestra we would have to import a lot of good musicians in order to get it started, and we would have to pay them very well in order to get the good ones to come. According to our estimation, it may cost us in the region of $2 million a year to maintain such a symphony orchestra. We are going to do something about this, but it will not be on a grand scale as yet. We are going to have a Chamber Ensemble, i.e, a small group of musicians, to get something started. We hope that this will provide some kind of good music in the course of the next few years. I think the main point here is to create an audience. It is no use having a symphony orchestra or a Chamber Ensemble if you do not have an audience. The audience will have to be trained from a very young age, and that is why the Ministry of Culture is conducting Sunday concerts, and giving concessional rates to students to encourage them to come to these concerts. We hope that by getting them accustomed to good music, we may be able to build up a good following. 5.15 p.m. The Member for Sembawang also complains that not enough of this sort of concerts arc conducted. I think that is true. If we were to have our way, we will have it once every week. At the present moment, we are having it once a month. We are trying to increase the frequency of these Sunday concerts, within our budget. Regarding the suggestion that we should give away free musical instruments to musical organisations, I think it would be the surest way to spoil them. I would be happy to see them stand on their own feet, and survive on their own. There is also some criticism regarding TV and radio programmes. As has been raised in the past, there are a lot of sword fighting and love story programmes. The Member must not mix up cultural items with entertaining items. There must be something interesting in our programmes. We cannot have cultural items all the time over TV or radio. It is not possible, because if you do that, then nobody would want to tune in to your radio or TV programmes. We have got to maintain some kind of balance. The programmes should not only be entertaining, but also educative and informative. It is the function of Radio and Television Singapore to provide such programmes. As for sending cultural troupe delegations overseas, I personally think that cultural activities should begin at home. We have got very little resources at home, and it may be too ambitious if our cultural troupes were to go overseas and perform on a grand scale. But right now we have plans to send a troupe to the USSR if we are able to find the money. I agree with the Member that sending cultural troupes overseas would promote the good image of Singapore. However, we have to do this within our resources. We have not stopped the cultural shows in the rural areas. True, the Ministry of Culture has not conducted these shows for the past few years. But it does not mean that cultural shows will not be staged in the rural areas. This function has been taken over by the People's Association, and occasionally they do send their cultural troupes to perform at various places in Singapore. That is all I have to say in reply to the Member for Sembawang. The Member for Jurong has suggested that we should have an open-air place for artists to exhibit their works. This was, tried out a few years ago and it was not successful. The main reason is that the weather in Singapore is unpredictable. Sometimes it may he hot one moment, and then suddenly there is heavy rain. If this occurs, the paintings will be spoiled. The artists themselves experienced difficulty in finding such a place to exhibit their paintings because of the unpredictability of our weather. Another reason is that this sort of exhibition does not really help the artists very much. Established artists will not send their paintings for display in an open air exhibition. They do not even have enough paintings for display in galleries or hotel lobbies, let alone have some to spare for this open air exhibition. As for the young up-and-coming artists, I do not think they lack any opportunity or facilities to display their works. The Ministry of Culture has been holding Art for Everyone series of exhibitions in community centres at the frequency of once a month. Any good artist can always apply to the Ministry of Culture for his works to be included in one of these exhibitions. Apart from that, the Ministry of Culture also regularly organises art exhibitions on a national scale in the Victoria Memorial Hall. Therefore, this suggestion of an open air gallery may not be a feasible one. As regards sculptures on traffic islands, I do not know what is the opinion of the other hon. Members. I myself feel it may contribute to more traffic accidents. Our traffic islands are not big and for a sculpture to be visible, it has got to be sufficiently big. And if they are huge sculptures or monuments, they may attract unnecessary attention or obstruct the visibility of motorists, and thus cause traffic accidents. The answer perhaps is to have them displayed in front of buildings, plazas, squares, hotel lobbies, or other places. But it is not practical to have one in every traffic island. The Member for Punggol has asked that films should be classified. I have given my reply to the Member for Katong in this House, the last time we were talking about film classification. At that time, we found we could not get any advantage in film classification. This is because we would "kill off" good films, as people will then go for "X" films. Then there will not be any patronage for the other films which are not given an "X" classification. This may do more harm than good to the film industry in the long run. Sir, we have had some discussions with the film distributors, and they are quite happy with the present system of censorship. Of course, they would want to have more sex films or more gangsterism in their films. But we cannot allow them to do what they want. I share the concern of the Member for Punggol that films may induce gangsterism, terrorism, and so on. That is why we have got to strike some sort of balance. There is also the difficulty of laying down exact rules as to what to show and what not to show in a film. The censor may say that there should not be any sword-fighting scenes in a film. The producer will respond by producing films portraying fist-fighting. And when you say that there should not be any more fist-fighting films, they will come out with something else. The film distributors' main concern is to sell the film. Therefore, they will go for anything that will create sensation. This is the primary problem. It is like playing cat and mouse. That is the job of the film censor. Singapore alone may not be able to stop this kind of exploitation, because the market here is too small and it is not worthwhile for any film producer to produce a film just for our market. They are producing films for the whole of Southeast Asia, or the world market. So unless the various governments in Southeast Asia make concerted efforts against such films, we will not be able to do anything. Fortunately for us, we are getting some results in this respect. For instance, when we first said that we were not going to have any more violent scenes in our films, the film producers just ignored us and kept on producing such films. But when Taiwan and Hong Kong also took the same steps, they began to realise that they have got to conform with the censorship requirements of the countries concerned. So this is really a matter for the various countries concerned. For our part, we are trying our best to keep this under control.

Mr Speaker, Sir, may I make a point of clarification? The Minister for Culture has just mentioned that films are being produced for the countries in Southeast Asia, and that unless the governments in Southeast Asia are concerned with the extent of violence portrayed in such films, and get together to work out a solution, there is nothing much that our Government can do. May I suggest, Sir, that since ASEAN has been dealing with all sorts of projects, such as tourism, would it not be good for its members and for us if ASEAN could set up a steering committee on film censorship with a view to cutting down violence? In this way, producing countries will realise there is no market for such films and they will thereby reduce acts of violence and terrorism in their films?

Sir, the suggestion, of course, is a very good one. It is worth trying, but I doubt very much if we can get all the ASEAN countries to bring their minds to bear on this matter. They have got much bigger and more serious problems to deal with at the present moment.

No, Sir. Whilst ASEAN may have other more urgent and important problems to deal with, I think this is just as important a problem for ASEAN. Whilst the Minister is very pessimistic over this issue, I would like to suggest that he brings it up, and if ASEAN members are agreeable, something may come Out of it. We should be optimistic, and should not be pessimistic.

I did not say I am pessimistic. I am never pessimistic. I am as optimistic as he is. But the thing is whether we can get all the ASEAN countries to bring their minds together to bear on this problem. We will try, of course. We never say die. But the main thing is that different countries have got different policies in the matter of film censorship. Not only have we got to persuade the policymakers that they have to follow our steps, but also have to persuade the film industry in their respective countries to do the same. Of course, this work is not simple. I agree with the Member for Punggol that we should try to do it, but there is no promise of any success. 5.30 p.m.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I am quite satisfied with the Minister's reply. What he has said is quite logical. He is sincere and quite moderate in his views. Of course, the Minister himself was formerly associated with cultural activities. He is very sharp with his pen. He has fought against colonialism. I am sure he is capable of leading our country in establishing distinguished cultural traditions, so that Singapore will become the cultural oasis of Southeast Asia. I hope he will practise what he preaches. I also hope his Ministry will do something for our local writers and that an indoor music hall will be built by next year. Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Yeo Choo Kok -

Mr Yeo Choo Kok, amendment (2).

I am not moving, Sir.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0901 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1071. Sir, we know that the Government is looking after the health of our people. It has therefore banned all forms of cigarette advertisement. It has organised an anti-smoking campaign over the TV and radio. Logically, as a result of this campaign, people should have stopped smoking. However, I see at page 6 of the Memorandum on the Main and Development Estimates that: `Despite the campaign to discourage cigarette smoking, there are indications that the consumption of local and imported cigarettes may increase marginally.' So I have my doubts whether our anti-smoking campaign has been intensive enough. I wonder if the Ministry of Culture will intensify the campaign by displaying anti-smoking slogans over pedestrian bridges.

Mr Speaker, Sir, there is an Anti-Smoking Advertisement Unit in my Ministry. However, the function of this Unit is to keep an eye on the mass media so that no cigarette advertisements are being publicised. Actually it has very little to do with the anti-smoking campaign. But nevertheless, the Broadcasting Department has carried out a campaign against smoking, just as it has carried out other campaigns like the anti-pollution campaign, "Save Water" campaign, and so on. We should not be blamed for the failure to convert smokers into non-smokers. The campaign is actually directed at the whole population. I personally feel that no matter what sort of campaign is conducted, and on how grand a scale the campaign is no smoker can be converted. If a person is a smoker, I think he will remain a smoker. I can say that there are a few Members in this House who are smokers and no matter how you prevail upon them not to smoke, they will never give up smoking. I think Members will agree with me that at the very least the campaign over radio and TV will achieve some effect on our younger generation because, being potential smokers, they can be drawn into the smoking habit by the advertisements put up by cigarette companies, and in this respect the anti-smoking campaign can prevent that. I can quote several instances where some fathers said that they had been told by their children not to smoke lest they die if they continued smoking. This is the effect of the campaign: we have put our message across to the younger generation. If this kind of campaign goes on, we would be able to create a kind of resistance against cigarette smoking in the subconscious mind of the younger generation. As for anti-smoking banners on overhead bridges and so on, I think we may be overdoing it if we do this because, as I have said, it is not possible to convert the smokers into non-smokers. They are already a "gone" case.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, does the Minister mean to say that the present anti-smoking campaign is adequately carried out and, therefore, he does not intend to do anything else?

Sir, may I speak in Mandarin? Perhaps I can explain more clearly in Mandarin.

Yes.

(In Mandarin): Sir,I am not saying that what we have done is sufficient. What I am saying is that for those confirmed smokers, whatever campaign is carried out, they cannot be persuaded to change their habits, or to give up smoking. What is important is that the younger generation should not be influenced by these advertisements to take up smoking. I think that a campaign of this sort is really to prevent the younger generation from forming the habit of smoking. It should not be something to stop confirmed smokers from the habit. The programmes on our television and over radio are quite sufficient.

Mr Speaker, Sir, may I make a suggestion in connection with the point raised by the Member for Jurong? The Member wanted an intensification of the anti-smoking campaign. Bearing all the facts in mind, no sensible person would doubt that cigarette smoking is bad. But we are not discussing the merits or demerits of smoking in this Chamber. We have accepted the fact that the anti-smoking campaign must go on. The question is how can we further produce concrete results. I was just thinking that instead of putting up slogans, signboards or banners across overhead bridges, perhaps we can follow the examples set by certain western countries, on every cigarette packet you put a label in clear language, saying "Smoking is bad for your health. You are smoking at your own risk." Or there can be some other slogans which the Minister for Culture might think of.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not dispute the fact that we should have this anti-smoking campaign. What I am saying is that this campaign should not be carried to the extent of having banners on overhead bridges and so on. As for putting labels on cigarette packets, that is another matter. I think the smokers themselves know what they are in for. And if, in spite of all these anti-smoking campaigns, they still carry on smoking, then it is their own lookout.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, since the Minister has given his reply, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0901 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1101. Sir, may I range over my next amendment* on subhead 1251 under the same Head? * The amendment reads as follows: (5) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0901 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1251.

Yes.

Mr Speaker, Sir, recently it was announced that newspapers might have to go public, after legislation to that effect has been enacted. That is well and good. However, can the Minister tell us how will it he possible for a newspaper with a small circulation, or whose readership does not exceed a few thousand, to go public? I am afraid that such a newspaper with a poor circulation may have to mid up if it has to go public. Sir, the Ministry of Culture should screen its films more often in the various parts of the island. We have several campaigns going on in the island, and yet some people in the rural areas are completely neglected as far as publicising the campaigns is concerned. Many of the rural folks do not possess a radio or television. May I suggest that the Ministry of Culture vans frequently visit the rural areas to publicise the campaigns. There should be film shows telling them what is going on in Singapore. We should also make it compulsory for all theatres to show the Ministry of Culture films before the main show begins. Many of our citizens are surprisingly not aware of what is happening in our island. The television is a good medium of information. But the cinema as an avenue of publicity is being completely neglected. In the theatres I find that the national anthem is not being played at the end of the last show. I do not know why this practice is stopped. The national anthem should be played at the end of the last show, because the people of Singapore must respect their national anthem. Sir, the other matter I wish to raise is this. Under the urban renewal project, I believe the Ministry of Social Affairs will be resited at Pearl's Hill. May I know whether the Victoria Memorial Hall will also be affected by the resiting? 5.45 p.m. Sir, I also wonder whether the State crest could be erected at the clock tower of the Victoria Memorial Hall, which appears to be bare at the moment. I know that I had brought up this subject last year to which the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture suggested referring the matter to the proper authority. I believe because of that reason nothing has been done so far. Can I suggest to the Minister to liaise with the proper authority and reconsider the matter'? Since this building is in the heart of the city and also a tourist attraction, something must be done to better its appearance.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Anson has raised matters under the various subheads. He has mentioned the Victoria Memorial Hall, the clock tower and many other matters.

Sir, only two matters were brought up: publicity and the Victoria Memorial Hall.

Sir, in the Government statement on the detention of the Managing Director of Nanyang Siang Pau, it was stated that the Government was considering legislation to require all major Singapore newspapers to go public, so that no single person or family should be in control of a newspaper. The Government is now considering an amendment to the Printing Press Act to provide for all major Singapore newspapers to go public. Therefore, the proposed amendment will apply not only to Nanyang Siang Pau but to all major Singapore newspapers. Here the operative word is "major". That means, it must be a very big newspaper. If a newspaper has a circulation of only a few thousand, then there is no point in asking that newspaper to go public, because it is not possible to get people to buy its shares. For newspapers with a small circulation, I think, this amendment may not apply to them. As regards screening films in various parts of the island, the Ministry of Culture did have a film unit in the past, which screened films in the rural areas. But with the advent of television, we found that the unit has become obsolete because people can see more up-to-date films on TV. It would also be a waste of public money to continue with these film shows, since the people in the rural areas can watch films on their TV sets. For those who do not have TV sets or radios, they can always go to the rural community centres to watch TV shows. We feel that we may be duplicating the work of television if the film unit was asked to go round to show films in the rural areas. I do not know if the national anthem is still played in the theatres. I have not been to the cinema for a long time, and I do not know what is happening there. If they do not play the national anthem, I think it is to avoid the embarrassment of disrespect to the national anthem when after the show the cinemagoers scramble for the doors. That may be one reason why the cinemas do not play the national anthem at the end of the show. The Member for Anson also suggested that the clock tower of the Victoria Memorial Hall should have a crest on it. I think he is quite serious about it because this is the second time he has raised it; the first time was last year. This is a matter of opinion. I myself feel that the clock tower is already a very famous landmark of Singapore and we need not have anything on it. As it is, I like the beauty or the simplicity of the clock tower. If we put a crest on it we may spoil its beauty and we may have to spend some money maintaining it by giving it a coat of paint regularly. In any case, there is already a crest at the front entrance to the Victoria Theatre, and there is also another one at the front entrance to the Victoria Memorial Hall. Therefore, we have enough crests in the building, and I do not think it is necessary to have one big crest on the clock tower. Regarding the urban renewal project, I have no knowledge that the Victoria Memorial Hall would be pulled down or would be resited. I think it is now the subject of discussion by the National Monument Board. Once it is designated as a national monument, it will not be touched. At the present moment, I have no further information about this.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not objecting to what the Minister has said about the clock tower. He can see for himself whether it is attractive or not. Previously, the British crown was at the top of the clock tower. Now, there is nothing there. Therefore, we should put a crest which will be a tourist attraction. This is my proposal, and I hope the Minister can see some way to do it before next year's Budget sitting.

Sir, in order to save the Member the trouble of bringing it up again next year, I think he should stop here because I do not think there is any necessity to put up a crest on the clock tower. The appearance is good as it is, and we should not spend any more money on it.

Sir, in view of the Minister's reply, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0901 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1301*. (* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy.) Sir, here I would like to refer to the question of the educational potential of broadcasting. I do not feel that this potential is being fully exploited. Sir, management of the mass media is an extremely grave responsibility. Yet despite what the Minister has already remarked on, I feel that the policy is not too clear. What is it that we want to put on TV and over radio? Is it only what we feel is popular? Is there any attempt to educate in order to raise the standard of taste among our people, the standard of cultural appreciation? Or do we simply respond to the lowest common denominator of demand? There does not seem to be any attempt at a feed-back, no audience rating that I know of, no significant research into audience responses. I think more could be done to make people more conscious of one another's forms of cultural expression. This is simply an example of the possible educational uses to which we could put our normal television channels. For example, when we put up a programme consisting of a Chinese cultural item, why not explain what we present? If there is a Chinese orchestra rendering some selection, why not explain the particular features of the instruments of the orchestra, and how these instruments are combined to give effect? Perhaps some further explanation of the finer aspects of Chinese music could be conveyed to a non-Chinese audience. Again, if there is the presentation of a Chinese opera, what sort of story does it attempt to tell? What is the significance of the costumes and of make-up? What we nowadays see is merely a straightforward presentation, with no attempt at explanation. We can do the same with the cultural forms from some other streams. Take an Indian dance, for example. We can show the meaning of gestures, of movements of arms, legs, head and eyes. In this way, we can give a cultural experience to people who watch television or correspondingly to those who listen to the radio. Otherwise, we have the Chinese enjoying Chinese culture, Indians enjoying Indian culture, and there does not seem to be any kind of cross-fertilisation or cross-explanation, and no attempt to bridge the cultural gap which continues to exist. For other educational purposes, why can we not have interesting courses for the worker and his family? Courses which may be related to culture, but which may be related to the other preoccupations as well. There are many cases which have shown that people in Singapore do not adequately know their own cultural background. A course on historical monuments, landmarks, sites, the interesting stories behind these objects, even religious edifices and other features, all these would go to make an interesting programme, giving people a sense of belonging to their environment, a Singapore identity, a sense of common relationship, one with another, because of common recognition of common features. It would appear that tourists seem to know more about Singapore than Singaporeans themselves. Then we come to another matter -, the question of the quality of technique possessed by our TV personnel. Just watch, Mr Speaker, Sir, for example, how a TV interview is conducted. The way questions are asked could only be described as gauche, to say the least. At one time, if not recently, there was a lot of camera gimmickry going on even in serious programmes, like zooming, panning, super-imposition. Even when it is a ballet, an Indian dance or an orchestra, it is quite a giddying experience to watch the tricks of the cameramen. Sir, all this indicates that there is a necessity for an improvement of our telecasting expertise. I hope that steps will be taken in this direction. 6.00 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to know why Tamil radio programmes close down at 9.00 p.m., whereas the other language programmes continue till midnight. I am raising this matter in the House because I have received complaints from the public to this effect. Therefore, I have to bring this matter up here. Can the same privilege be extended to the Tamil programme listeners? I have also noticed that Tamil news-readers have all along been pronouncing the word "million" in English. Is there no such a word in Tamil? Or is it because the reader does not know the actual word in Tamil? In Tamil, "million" is called oru latcham. "Ten million" is oru kodi. It is so simple. I have to bring this matter up although it may be trivial, because there has been criticism by some Tamil speaking groups on the word. Sir, at the last two Budget sittings, I had brought up the question of Tamil films being shown on TV rather too late in the evening. The Parliamentary Secretary last year had promised to consider the matter, yet so far nothing has been done. Can the Minister concerned do something positive to screen the films at an earlier hour? At present, the film is scheduled at 9.25 p.m. or 9.30 p.m. For God's sake, stick to the scheduled time! Do not extend it to 9.40 p.m., or 10.00 p.m. At 9.20 p.m. or 9.25 p.m. is fair enough, because sometime they have to change the time. When you see in the newspaper that the scheduled time is 9.40 p.m., they will only telecast it at 10.10 p.m. Therefore, I think they should strictly keep to the scheduled time, at 9.25 p.m. Further, Sir, in respect of Tamil programmes, I observe that very often most of them are repeated and only a few artistes appear in all these programmes. Can the Tamil section programmes be improved with more new items and more artistes participating? Sir, I would also like to know the progress our country is making in respect of colour TV. May I know when will this be introduced? Everybody is expecting to buy a colour TV. If the Ministry is not introducing colour TV, then they would not want to buy, and moreover we would not get more revenue. What my colleague, the Member for Katong, has said about the Indian cultural show is very important. When they move their hands, there is some meaning. When they move their eyes or heads, there is also some meaning. These movements must be explained so that the other races can understand and may learn how to bring this culture together with other cultures to mould our national culture. I hope the Minister will instruct the Broadcasting Department to explain the significance of these movements for every show, so that it will be easy for the people to learn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, can I again seek your permission to speak on this amendment, because just now my colleague, the Member for Anson, raised the question of colour TV? If I am permitted to speak now, I will not be moving amendment (12)*. * Amendment (12), standing in the names of Messrs Teong Eng Siong and Ng Kah Ting, reads as follows: That the sum to be allocated for Head 0901 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 12.

All right, Mr Ng.

Thank you, Sir. Just now the Member for Anson asked the Minister for Culture when will colour TV be introduced. I would like to say, Sir, that it is all very well to introduce colour TV but the cost is in the region of $3 million. In actual fact, according to the Memorandum on the Main and Development Estimates, it will require $2.9 million. In introducing colour TV, I wonder whether the Minister for Culture takes into consideration the question of cost of colour TV sets to the viewer. In this respect, I wonder how many people will be able to afford the luxury of a colour TV set. To my mind, only a few will benefit, i.e, those who are well to do. When Government introduces colour TV, I take it as another form of social service for the benefit and enjoyment of the general public. Therefore, if the introduction of such a service is beyond the means of the majority of the people, due to the high cost of the set, I would say that such an introduction would be unwise. However, as a first step upon the introduction of colour TV, perhaps the Minister will consider installing colour TV sets at community centres for the general public. Will he also consider ways and means of reducing the high cost of such sets, so that more people can enjoy this new amenity? I am saying this because I do not wish the Government to give the impression to the general public that when such a service is introduced it is only for the benefit of the privileged few. Also, I hope the manufacturers will not take advantage of this new amenity by charging exorbitant prices for these sets. I am sure Members will agree with me that public money apportioned for such a purpose must be justifiably and worthily spent. That is to say, everybody, whether he is with or without any means, should benefit.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, this provision of $2.9 million is for the development of colour TV. I recall that during last year's debate on the Budget, I talked about this matter too. The Minister told me then that he had plans to implement colour TV. 1 am very glad that in this year's Estimates, he has very quickly and rapidly provided for the expenditure of this item. This goes to show that the Minister is doing his job efficiently. We know that colour TV has already been introduced in other South-east Asian countries. As a financial centre of South-east Asia and as a country with a high level of culture and education, Singapore should not lag behind other countries. We should catch up with other countries and provide this service for the benefit of our people. What I want to raise now is in two parts. Firstly, under this provision of $2.9 million, what sort of plans are in hand? Can the Minister give us some details of the various plans? Secondly, the Minister told us last year that colour TV would take three to five years to implement. I think that is rather slow. I would like to ask the Minister when can we actually implement colour TV programme.

Sir, I agree with some of the remarks made by the Member for Katong that we need what he called "cross-fertilisation" in this cultural field. But the problem is that we need to have the personnel to do this "cross-fertilisation". It is no use asking a mono-lingual person to do it because he would not understand what it is all about - the movements of the fingers, eyes and so on. It is a rare breed of species, like myself or some other people, who can enjoy a Cantonese opera as well as an Italian opera, and who can also enjoy a Western symphony orchestra music as well as a Chinese orchestra music. At the present moment very few people can do this. I think we should be given time to work this out. Of course, our aim is that whatever we produce for screening on TV should be understood and enjoyed by the majority of the people. Here again, the language barrier is also a problem. It is no use explaining to them the significance of certain movements in the Cantonese opera, if the people cannot understand Cantonese at all and it is too late to teach them Cantonese. So I think there is some obstacle to this. However, we will try our level best to bring about this kind of "cross-fertilisation". The courses to be conducted on the historical landmarks and monuments of Singapore is, I think, a very good suggestion, although the other departments should also be responsible. What the TV can do is to produce films depicting the various landmarks of Singapore, before they are gone. We are definitely going into this, and I think it is a very good suggestion. On the techniques of the producers and the personnel involved in making a film, I admit that we have some shortcomings because technicians are difficult to get nowadays. And if they are well trained, it is also difficult to retain them. 6.15 p.m. The interviewers are young. Therefore, they have got to be trained. Some of them are just fresh from school. It will take some time for them to become more sophisticated in their interviews. But I will take note of this and will urge for a better performance the next time. The Member for Katong says that camera gimmickry can make a person giddy. This is something producers like to try out because there are so many gimmicks that they can do to make a scene more interesting. Instead of just showing the face of a singer, they can make it more interesting by superimposing something to give it a better effect. I must, of course, say that I am not fully in agreement with this. But we have to let them try out their own techniques because it is in the nature of technicians to improve through experiment. We will therefore have to tolerate this for some time. The Member for Anson is, as usual, complaining about Tamil films. I am not quite sure what he is trying to aim at. At one point he was saying that we do not provide midnight shows for the Tamil viewers, and in the same breath he said that the Tamil programmes are too early for them. Perhaps this is because some Tamil films are intolerably long. So they are scheduled at the end of the daily programme series, so that the films can carry on into the night.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister is on the wrong track. There is a weekly film show in Tamil, on Thursdays and Fridays. Usually they telecast the film at 9.25 p.m. on Thursdays, and at 9.30 on Fridays. Sometimes these times have been changed from 9.25 and 9.30 p.m. to 10.00 and 10.30 p.m. respectively. It will therefore mean that people will have to stay up late to watch these films as they go on up to midnight. So I want the times for the Tamil films to be fixed at 9.25 and 9.30 p.m. for Thursdays and Fridays respectively. I do not want the times to be earlier or later than 9.25 p.m. or 9.30 p.m. This is because on Fridays some Tamil people want to visit the temple and when they go home they can watch the Tamil shows on TV. If it is telecast earlier, they may not go to the temple as they will want to watch the shows. Therefore, we should stick to 9.25 p.m. and 9.30 p.m. Does the Minister understand now? The other point I wish to make is about radio programmes. Radio Singapore stop broadcasting Tamil programmes at 9.00 p.m. For the other language mediums, they broadcast the programmes up to midnight. Why is this so? Radio Singapore should also end the broadcast of Tamil programmes at midnight. Then the Tamil community will not talk of discrimination in a multi-racial society. That is the reason why I am asking the Minister to extend the times.

Mr Speaker, Sir, this is a very tall order - to have the Tamil films telecast on Thursdays and Fridays at 9.25 and 9.30 p.m. respectively, and not earlier or later! But we must bear in mind that we have to be flexible when arranging programmes just in case some other popular and exciting programmes like boxing, for instance, come on. Then we have to put them on first, and leave the lengthy Tamil films to the end so that people who enjoy these films can stay up to enjoy them without interruption. Conversely, people who do not enjoy these films, can then switch on to another channel. We will have to leave the Tamil programmes as they are, because of the need for flexibility in arranging TV programmes. The radio programmes in Tamil always stop at 9.00 p.m. to give way to the other Chinese dialects. This is done because we have to meet with the demand of the majority of the listeners. This has been so for several years and we do not intend to change this time-table.

Sir, it is not a question of the majority or the minority. We are now talking in the context of our multi-racial society. Therefore, why should there be this discrimination? Singaporeans do not think in terms of whether they are in the majority or minority nowadays. They belong to a multi-racial society. So why should radio broadcasts in the other three languages go on to midnight, and stop broadcasting Tamil programmes at 9.00 p.m.?

Sir, this practice has been going on for several years and we are quite happy about it. This is the first time it has been raised. However, we have to take into consideration the proportion of the problem. Nevertheless, we do not intend to change the present practice.

Sir, I have not brought this matter up in the past few years because only recently did I receive such a complaint. Therefore, I now bring it up for the Minister's consideration.

Mr Jek, what about colour TV?

I beg your pardon, Sir. The Members for Punggol and Sembawang have asked about colour TV. We have done everything we can to lay down the foundation for colour TV. If everything goes on well, we will probably have colour TV, a pilot programme, in the later part of 1974. The important thing for us to do now is to persuade the dealers to send their technicians for training in the field of colour TV. RTS has already done the necessary training for its staff. It has sent three engineers abroad for training, and they have all come back. We are now seeking funds to purchase certain equipment. The dealers will also have to step up the training of their technicians, because it is imperative that they provide good service as the colour sets are much more complicated than the black-and-white sets. The colour sets can go out of order very easily. Hence, this need for better servicing. We are also in the process of calling a meeting with dealers to urge them to go ahead and train their staff. Sir, the total cost of setting up colour TV is $20.4 million. The amount shown in the Development Estimates is $2.9 million. This is the amount required for the financial year 1973-74. But if you look at the provision carefully, you will notice that there is an asterisk against the amount. This means that it is subject to the sanction of the Development Planning Committee. The Committee is now asking us what sort of equipment we are purchasing, and other matters. As soon as we have satisfied their curiosity, we hope to get the money to carry on with our plans. I agree that the cost of a colour TV set is quite expensive, and the Member for Punggol has rightly shown his concern for the high cost. He has asked whether anything could be done to reduce the cost. I remember when we first introduced black-and-white TV in 1963, everyone was saying that a TV set would cost them $400 or $500 and they were not sure whether people could afford that sum. We can now see that practically every family has one set. I am quite sure our standard of living will have gone up by the time colour TV is introduced and by then many people will be able to afford a colour set. One way to reduce the cost of a colour set is for a dealer to take back the black-and-white set and offsetting the trade-in value for the colour set. When I was in Taiwan last year, I found that Taiwan has a large rural population. This is an advantage for conversion into colour because when they introduced colour TV, what happened was that the dealers took back the black-and-white TV sets from the city and sold them to the people living in the rural areas, resulting in the city people all having colour sets and the rural people having the black-and-white sets. Moreover, the black-and-white sets will slowly be phased out as the standard of living of their rural people goes up. But here in Singapore we do not have a big rural population. So the dealers may have to think of some other way to dispose of the black-and-white sets. Perhaps they can sell them to places like Sarawak, Sabah or Indonesia, and then give good discounts for the colour sets. That may be one way to reduce the cost of the colour sets. Another way for the people to enjoy colour TV is to have one in each community centre. I can safely say that the People's Association will definitely take steps to install a colour set in each community centre, if and when colour TV is introduced. But it is still too early to say that. So I will leave it to the People's Association to decide when the time comes.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to make a point of clarification. The Minister mentions that the People's Association will take into consideration the request I made just now. I would now like to add to what he has said about the People's Association. I believe the Minister for Culture is the Deputy Chairman of the Board of Management of the People's Association. Therefore, when he says that such request will be taken into consideration, I hope that it will be realised. 6.30 p.m.

Sir, before I withdraw, I would like to make reference to the Minister's statement that we do not have enough bodies to produce our own programmes. I think that if we spend less money on acquiring programmes, such as buying these canned programmes that are ready-made, it might be better if we spend more money training our people to produce more useful programmes. But otherwise, I find his answer most satisfactory, and I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Conceicao, amendment (7)*. * The following amendments stood in the name of Mr J. F. Conceicao -

I am not moving, Sir,I also do not wish to move amendments* (10) and (11), as the matters that I propose to speak on have already been adequately aired.

Yes. Mr Ho Kah Leong, amendment (8).

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0901 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1551. Sir, I would like to ask the Minister for Culture whether there are any plans to set up a library in Jurong Town. As we all know, Jurong Town is under rapid development. There are about 40,000 people living there now. In years to come it may well become a satellite town of 100,000 people. There are branch libraries in the other satellite towns built by the Housing and Development Board, such as Toa Payoh and Queenstown. Therefore, may I ask the Minister for Culture whether he intends to set up a branch library in Jurong Town? Perhaps he can make use of one of the HDB premises as a library.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the answer is yes, but it will have to be in the financial year 1976-77. In the consideration for the setting up of branch libraries of the National Library, priority is given to areas with at least a 100,000-population. The first full-time branch library was set up in Queens-town in 1970. The second branch library at Toa Payoh is now under construction and will be completed in the 1973-74 financial year. Provision has also been made for a third branch library to be built in Katong in the 1974-75 financial year. The fourth branch library is being planned at Telok Blangah and Bukit Merah housing estates in the financial year 1975-76. Jurong Town is expected to have a population of 70,000 by the end of 1973, reaching a population of 100,000 by the end of 1975. Therefore, a branch library is being planned for Jurong Town in the financial year 1976-77. The present population is now served by means of a regular bulk loan of 500 books per loan to the Jurong Town Residents' Association. Altogether, 1,690 books were borrowed in 1972 in this manner.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Teong, amendment (9)*, Film Censorship. I think the Minister has already answered matters of film censorship, amongst other things. Are you still going to move this amendment now? (* See footnote, col. 771)

(In Mandarin): Yes. Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, * That the sum to be allocated for Head 0901 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1751. (* See footnote, col. 771) Film shows are one of the most popular forms of entertainment and recreation for the masses. The film industry has made a great profit, which may amount to millions of dollars. Since our people have spent so much money on film shows, they deserve to get back something for what they have paid, that is to say, the films the people see should be healthy and meaningful. However, I regret to say that the films shown in recent years have been bloody. They are violent, nonsensical and meaningless to the audience. Some of the films depict sex, and the pornographic art. These films have deleterious effects on the minds of the people. They also have an adverse effect on the morals of the people. Many parents now realise that they should guide their children along the right path. They feel that it is difficult to get films which are healthy for their children. In recent days we have read in the newspapers about juvenile delinquency. There was a case when two teenage boys robbed a couple at a bus station. One even kissed the girl and tried to assault her. This incident did not occur without any reason. I think it is the result of bad social influence. The other reason may be due to the deleterious effects of films depicting sex and violence. In view of the harm that is being done by these films, the Board of Film Censors should take positive action to ban these films. The Ministry of Culture should encourage the showing of more healthy and educative films so that the general mass of the people can enjoy healthy films which will be of benefit to them. In this way, our society will be more peaceful and secure.

Mr Speaker, Sir, may I inform the Member that we are doing our very best to try to put a stop to films which glorify violence. I do not think we can put all blame on films. For instance, juvenile delinquency can be brought about by many factors other than films. All I can say is that the film distributors aim at making a profit. If they can make money out of producing good and healthy films, I am quite sure they will do that. But they find that they can make more money out of films which depict violence and sex. Therefore, everyone goes for this type of films. Our problem is that we are not in a position to say what sort of films should be allowed to come in. We can only censor the films, impose cuts, or ban the films altogether. As to the kind of films to be brought into this country, it is all a matter of supply and demand. If more people want good films, I am quite sure there will be a lot of good films coming in.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I am glad to hear from the Minister for Culture that the Board of Film Censors would be taking positive measures to deal with various types of films depicting violence and sex. I hope the officials involved in this work will pay attention to what the Minister has said. When censoring films they should bear in mind the Minister's statement of policy. The Minister for Culture has also said just now that the film industry is only aiming at making a profit. The Ministry concerned should persuade the film industry not to regard profit-making as the only motive but also to pay some attention to the benefits which it can contribute to our people and thus help maintain stability and peace in our society. The people in the film industry can make a valuable contribution to our society, since they are also human and they also have a conscience. Therefore, I think they will take heed of our aspirations. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment (13), Mr. Ong Teng Cheong.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0901 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 61*. (* The same amendment also stood in the names of Mr Ho Kah Leong and Tuan Haji Mohd. Ariff Bin Suradi.) Sir, commenting on the effect of industrialisation and citizens' fashions and ways of life during the last week's debate on the Budget statement, the Minister for Finance had agreed that there is a lot to be said for turning away from materialism towards more cultural projects and worthwhile activities. I have no doubt that the Minister for Culture will agree with me that community centre development and activities are worthwhile projects. Activities in this direction provide alternative outlets for our energetic youths. In our endeavour to encourage our youths to participate in cultural and other healthy activities, in order to keep them away from less desirable indulgence, especially drug-taking and other pill-abuses, there is no question that we need to urgently upgrade the facilities of most of our community centres. Sir, many of the 180-odd community centres in our Republic are sub-standard. Besides, a good number of our constituencies are without a community centre. In this connection, I am of the opinion that the total sum of $1.03 million allocated for the People's Association for the development of community centres, i.e, the purchase of land, equipment and furniture, and for other activities, is grossly inadequate. If we divide this sum equally among the 187 community centres, it will come to something like $6,000 a year for each community centre, or $500 a month, which in many cases is barely enough to pay for the PUB bills, let alone upgrading the facilities, like providing colour television in the next financial year. I, therefore, wonder if the Minister for Culture will kindly inform the House as to how he intends to utilise the limited funds made available, and what programme of activities is he contemplating. Finally, I would like to know whether he would consider taking steps as soon as possible to secure additional votes for the coming financial year to upgrade the facilities in the community centres.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I merely want to find out from the Minister for Culture in what way the Ministry is going to help the community centre now being built in Jurong Town. $400,000 is the target cost of building this community centre, and it will take a long time and a lot of effort to get this large sum of money. When asking for contributions, I have often been asked in what way is the Government giving financial assistance for the building of community centres. Is it a dollar-for-dollar grant in the case of this Jurong Town community centre? 6.45 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in planning the expansion of the community centres, especially in the provision of funds for the construction and improvement of community centres, we have always relied on local participation. The amount that is being voted for is for the construction of 11 community centres in various parts of Singapore. We are giving priority to constituencies without community centres. In the case of Tanglin constituency, it has no community centre and we are therefore going to build a standard-type community centre there. In fact, last year, we allotted a sum of money for the construction of a community centre in Tanglin constituency, but they did not use it. So this is a revote. We are going to build a centre in Jurong Town, one in Potong Pasir, one in Henderson constituency, and one in Toa Payoh constituency. Toa Payoh constituency has been divided into two, and the one which is still called Toa Payoh constituency has no community centre. So we have to provide a sum of money for this. We arc also providing some money for the reconstruction of the existing community centre in Anson constituency. Another community centre is to be built in Moulmein constituency, and one in Kampung Chai Chee. The community centre in Kampung Chai Chee is inadequate because it is sited on the ground floor of a block of Housing Board flats. We find that the space is too limited for the various activities of the community centre and provision has been earmarked for its development. As regards the construction of rural-type community centres, we have to build three, at Bukit Gombak, Paya Lebar and Punggol. These are the projects we have in mind. We have set up a Development Committee in the People's. Association, and the Member for Kim Keat is also a member of this committee. The function of this Development Committee is to look into the various aspects of activities of community centres and to put up recommendations for the improvement of facilities in these centres. With this sum of money, I think we can go a long way towards improving the facilities of the centres, provided we have the support of the local people in providing money for these improvements. I have always said that the activities of community centres must have the support of the local population. There is no point in spending a lot of money when the facilities are not used. The purpose of getting the people's participation is to ensure the full use of the facilities. The Member for Jurong has asked for the full amount of money to be spent on the Jurong community centre. I am afraid we cannot give him the full amount. It is the policy of the People's Association to give grants, dollar-for-dollar, for the construction of community centres. But there must be a limit. We cannot just go on giving dollar-for-dollar subsidy without a limit. They may ask for a $400,000 or $500,000 community centre. And I do not think they can expect the People's Association to meet with the demand. So a ceiling has got to be fixed, and that ceiling is about $80,000.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the Minister for his explanation. Before I withdraw my amendment, I would like to comment on the principle involved, i.e, that there should be a ceiling for the grant. I think we should conceive that the facilities in the community centres or the provision of community centres is a form of public institution, like the provision of schools for the children, provision of public recreational facilities, as part of the State responsibility. In that sense, I feel that although I agree with the Minister that we should encourage or would like to see local participation, the main responsibility of these provisions should be that of the State. If the State can provide additional funds, then it should do so to lighten the burden of the local residents, like residents in my constituency, for example, where almost 100 per cent are Housing Board residents, 30 per cent of whom are one-room flat dwellers. And for them to raise $150,000 or even $100,000 is rather impossible. Sir, on that note, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Teong Eng Siong -

Mr Teong.

I am not moving, Sir.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0901 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 63. Sir, I welcome the proposal to replace old buildings and holiday camps at Changi and Tanah Merah with chalets and picnic pavilions with the provision of $200,000. This proves that holiday chalets are becoming more and more popular, and hence there are insufficient chalets to cope with the increasing demand for such facilities. On the question of booking holiday camps and chalets, it takes a long time for the People's Association to approve the application. Moreover, applications have to be submitted very early. I would also like to know from the Minister for Culture whether the People's Association is in the process of acquiring more land, especially in the coastal parts of our Republic, for the purpose of building more holiday chalets or picnic pavilions. Sir, I have pointed out to the House earlier that in an urbanised society like ours, there must be room for recreational facilities for those living in Housing Board flats. I would certainly hope that this is not the end of the holiday complex. I would like to see more holiday complexes being built for the people.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Punggol complained that the holiday chalets are not sufficient. Yes, they are not sufficient. But in what periods of time are they not sufficient? In Pasir Ris we have 30 holiday flats. But they are all empty during school terms, and full during the school holidays. I think the problem here is not that we do not have enough. It is a question of how to allocate or how to make full use of these chalets. During the school terms, there are many holiday flats, bungalows and so on looking for occupants. During school holidays, however, we have applicants looking for holiday chalets. Perhaps one solution will be that our people should take their holidays in different periods and not take their holidays all at the same time. If they do that, then I do not think we need to have so many chalets. Otherwise no matter how we allocate them, we will still not be able to meet the demand for holiday chalets. If everyone goes on holiday at the same time, then it is really not possible to approve every application. The booking of a holiday camp takes a very long time. I presume that it will take some time to book a holiday camp because of the popularity and also because of the number of people who want to get into these camps. The problem here may not be just acquiring land to open up new camps, because in land-hungry Singapore it is not feasible to do that. One solution may be to partition the present holiday camps in such a way that more groups can use the camp at any one time. For instance, we can have the Tanah Merah Camp renovated to allow not just one group to use it at any one time but to partition it in such a way that several groups from different organisations can occupy this camp at the same time. I think that may be a solution to this shortage of camps. I agree that we need more camping sites for our young people in order to encourage them to get used to outdoor life. But the problem is how to get more camps. How are we going to get land in order to convert it into camps? As I have said, I think the solution may be to subdivide the camps now available.

As regards land availability, I think there is no problem. Even though there is a term known as "land-hungry Singapore" as mentioned by the Minister just now, I think the Government can easily acquire land if it wants to. We have seen this going on all the time. So there is no problem about that. What I wanted was that certain coastal parts with beautiful beaches be acquired so that holiday complexes can be built. The Minister also mentioned that holiday camps or complexes are only fully occupied during school holidays. I concede that that is true. But that, of course, proves one point, that during the school holidays everybody goes on holiday, especially parents who want to bring their children to the seaside, or some place like that. It also proves another point, that not everybody can take his holiday and use it by going to the seaside where the People's Association have got these holiday camps, because the children have to go 10 schools. So that is ruled out. But in all probability it may be that the organisations might want to make use of these holiday camps or chalets during certain weekends. Similarly, in that respect, where there is a great demand for these holiday camps at certain times or certain particular periods of the year, there would hardly be sufficient holiday camps or complexes to go round. The Minister said that partitioning may be one way to solve the problem. I would say that it may ease the problem a little but not totally solve it. I cannot agree with him in his assertion that it is difficult to look for land because, as I have mentioned just now, if Government wants to acquire a piece of land for public development it can do so at will. There is no question to that. I do not think it is going to be very costly when Government acquires a piece of land for public development because it is in the interest of the public. In that respect, if I get the assurance of the Minister for Culture that he will look into all these aspects, then I will consider withdrawing my amendment.

Yes. The Member has my assurance.

Thank you. Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $27,666,940 for Head 0901 ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $10,671,900 for Head 0901 ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Pursuant to a resolution of the House, Mr Speaker thereupon left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Main and Development Estimates of Expenditure for the financial year 1st April, 1973 to 31st March, 1974, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.

So be it. Resolved,

"That Parliament do now adjourn."-[Mr Jek Yeun Thong]. Adjourned accordingly at Six minutes past Seven o'clock p.m.