Hansard, 1974-03-22

Order read for resumed consideration in Committee of Supply [5th Allotted Day].

Head LA --

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head LA be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AA 1004*. (*The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs Cheong Yuen Chee and Ong Teng Cheong.) Recently the Ministry of National Development announced that 45 acres of land at Bah Soon Pah Road would be used for commercial pig farming, and that the land would be subdivided into eight lots of about five acres each for development by public application. This is a new project for pig farming in Singapore as we are encouraging the development of pig farming into a commercial enterprise. I have gone through the terms and conditions attached to the application form. It is clearly stated that the applicant should put up the building and all facilities including multi-storey piggeries on the 5-acre land and maintain a production of 1,000 porkers per acre per annum. Therefore, this project must involve at least a capital of $« million or even more. As such a big capital is required. I am sure that even if pig farmers in Singapore have the desire and the practical experience of participating in this project, they have very little chance of doing so because they are individual smallholders without big capital. I am very disappointed over the fact that the Minister does not take into consideration the present condition of pig farmers in Singapore, whereby provision could be made to give them a chance to participate in this project. Therefore, I sincerely urge the Minister to consider if the Government can set aside a portion of this land for the small pig farmers? Moreover, I propose that Government be responsible for the building of multi-storey piggeries and all the other necessary facilities, including pig pens. This piggery can then be subdivided into smaller units which will be suitable for the small pig farmers. Such pig farming units can be rented out to the pig farmers or sold to them on an instalment basis. This will enable the pig farmers to benefit from the project, and at the same time help them to develop their pig rearing in a far better environment. Sir, if this can be done 1 am sure the farmers will deeply appreciate it.

Sir, the announcement in increases in prices for Housing Board fiats made by the Minister on 30th November last year came as a stunning blow to many prospective flat owners. With the current inflation, the increase in prices is an additional burden to the ordinary wage earners. Sir, you will appreciate that before one decides to apply for the purchase of a Housing Board flat, he will have to ascertain whether the price of the flat and the instalment payments allowed fit in with his financial resources. He will then decide on either a three-, four- or five-room flat and the period of repayment, whether it is in 10, 15, or 20 years. Many applicants who have applied for flats two or three years ago have based their decision on these assumptions. But the increase of more than 50 per cent in prices will entail a corresponding increase in the monthly instalment payment. Such a move by the Housing Board has indeed caused a major upset in the financial circumstances of these prospective flat owners. Sir, I am not in disagreement with the reasons given by the Minister but I am questioning the manner in which this considerable increase in prices is being imposed. In his statement the Minister stated that the cost of providing public housing has risen considerably. These are facts that cannot be disputed. But why cannot the increase in prices be spread over a period of, say, eight years, thereby gradually increasing the burden rather than a sudden blow. By doing so, the price of a three-room flat will only be increased at the rate of $500 each year. Moreover, such a scheme will apply to a lesser number of applicants at any one time. It will be gradual. Probably the Minister feared that the private property developers will take advantage of this and use this as an excuse for raising the prices of their properties. Sir, prices of properties in the private sector have been increasing by leaps and bounds over the last eight years, which is several hundred per cent more. I would also like to touch on another problem faced by applicants for Housing Board flats. Many applicants have been waiting for their flats for as long as three years. Since the Board is unable to meet the needs of these applicants many have resorted to unauthorised occupation of Housing Board flats rented from the flat owners or tenants. Unfortunately, the Housing Board took a dim view of these happenings, and eviction notices were served on the owners or tenants. Notices read like this: `You are hereby requested to evict so-and-so and resume proper occupation of your flat, failing which legal action will be served to recover the said property.' Sir, where can these people go to for alternative accommodation, if the Housing Board itself is unable to provide them with alternative accommodation because of the length of time in the construction of flats. They are all ordinary wage earners and they are in no position to find cheap alternative accommodation in the private sector unless they want to live in shacks in squatter areas. I am not encouraging or condoning breaches of Housing Board regulations, but in situations of this nature sympathetic consideration should be given in order to alleviate the plight of these applicants for Housing Board flats. May I, therefore, suggest that unauthorised occupiers of Housing Board flats, who have registered for the purchase or rental of Housing Board flats, be permitted on compassionate grounds to stay in such flats until they have been allocated flats.

Sir, you may recall the announcement that was made in September last year regarding the restriction on the purchase of residential properties in the Republic. It stated that non-citizens, permanent residents, and companies incorporated in Singapore or abroad must obtain permission from the Government to buy houses. This announcement, though rather belatedly, was welcomed as it is intended to curb speculation in residential properties with a view to assisting our middle income group of citizens, who are not eligible at the present moment to purchase HDB flats, to own private houses as part of the Government's overall home ownership policy. But since the announcement in last September, there was a complete silence on the subject. Some of the permanent residents and non-citizens who wish to buy houses genuinely for their own use, hoping to make their home in the Republic, are at a loss as to where their applications should be submitted, or how to go about obtaining the necessary permission. Some of them have tried, I believe, and they have been going around from one department to another. Some of them are in our civil service and industry and other services. Many of them are making a useful contribution to the progress and prosperity of this country. There is no doubt that we wish them well and look forward to their continued contributions and service. Therefore, I will be pleased if the Minister could kindly inform the House as to when will he introduce legislation relating to this announcement last September to regulate the purchase of local residential property. And will the Minister also indicate the reasons for the delay in enacting this piece of legislation, and whether the delay is a deliberate measure? While I am still on the subject of home ownership, I wonder if the Minister could elaborate on a recent announcement that the Government will be building houses for our middle-class citizens. Would he inform the House as to who will be responsible for the project? Where and when will this middle-class housing estate be constructed? How many units will be built annually? What will be the terms of sale and whether there will be any income limits imposed on the purchase of these houses? I am sure that not only members of the middle-income public are thrilled by the announcement, but also some Members of this House are just as anxious to hear more about this scheme.

Sir, I rise in support of my colleague, the Member for Bukit Panjang. Sir, though we cannot deny the commendable job done by the Primary Production Department on agriculture over the decade, we must admit that sometimes it does make silly decisions. Although we are not discussing the merits and demerits of the Department at this juncture, I cannot but point Out to the Minister one or two mistakes made by the Department recently. One mistake, which appeared somewhat shameful on the part of the Government, was that sometime ago the Primary Production Department ordered the feedstuff merchants to decrease the price of feedstuff. However, later the merchants not only ignored the order but also jacked up the price further. Surely the Department could have studied the supply and demand of feedstuff before placing an order, and then the order could be made firm and effective. 2.45 p.m. Another mistake was the decision to lease out the plot of land, as mentioned by the Member for Bukit Panjang, only to big-time farmers for the purpose of pig rearing. This is another evidence that the Primary Production Department is in favour of big-time farmers only. Ordinary farmers, I believe, are frightened by the rules and regulations in respect of this proposed pig farm. In the first instance, I think it is basically wrong to look after the big-time farmers only, for this is in violation of the fundamental principles of democratic socialism which our Party advocates. It is the small-time farmers that we should look after. Sir, we all know that land is scarce in Singapore and we have to make use of air space to develop agriculture. Surely the Government can build standard multi-storey pigsties with infrastructure provided and let them out to our small-time farmers to enable them to make a living out of pig rearing. I think this is more workable and beneficial to our farming community as a whole. I will, therefore, urge the Minister concerned to give serious consideration to this proposal.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to touch on a very small point on the Government's policy on land acquisition. The Government policy has caused dissatisfaction among those property owners who have been affected by it because they felt that the compensation was not only inadequate but also unfair as the offer of compensation was made to them nearly four years after they were informed of the acquisition. Mr Speaker, Sir, the Government has started acquiring houses for urban renewal in my constituency since 1969, and the owners were asked to submit claims for compensation to the Commissioner of Lands. In compliance with the notice, all affected house owners submitted claims for compensation through their certified valuers in 1970. But after that, nothing was heard from the Commissioner of Lands. However, in 1974, four years after the submission of claims, the Commissioner of Lands has just made up his mind to announce his offer of compensation to the people concerned. Sir, you will agree with me that there is a world of difference in land prices as well as the purchasing power of money between 1970 and 1974. There is no need for me to illustrate or elaborate on this. They felt that the Commissioner had taken unfair advantage by delaying the matter for four years, as the claims for compensation had been forwarded to the Commissioner since 1970. Why was it necessary to take four years to pay the compensation? Besides this unnecessary delay, the compensation offered by the Commissioner of Lands was only half of what they claimed four years ago. No doubt, there is provision for appeal if they feel that the compensation is inadequate. But let us be frank about it. How many people would like to go to court and appeal against the Government? Going to court and fighting a case against the Government is one thing, there is also the legal expenses, the time spent in court, and the inconvenience caused. In view of this, Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to ask the Minister: is four years the usual length of time that the Commissioner of Lands needs to determine the offer of compensation for acquisition of houses?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I have an amendment to a subhead* relating to Loans to the Housing and Development Board, but I observe that the Member for Kim Keat has raised the matter on which I intended to say a few words. With your leave, Sir, may I raise my views at this stage? * The amendment, standing in the names of Messrs N. Govindasamy and L.P. Rodrigo, reads as follows: (6) That the sum to be allocated for Head LG be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AA 3008.

Yes.

Sir, I appreciate the soundness of Government policy to urgently meet the housing needs of the lower income group. The fact of owning a home or staying in one at a reasonable rent is satisfaction of a basic physical and social need of the people and the achievement of a sense of security. This is a basic need of the middle income group as much as it is a basic need of the lower income group. Where this need could be satisfied by their own efforts a few years ago (that is, the people in the middle income group), the dramatic rise in the value of houses in the private sector has removed hopes of their realising this need. The prevailing restriction, Sir, on the sale of private property to non-citizens was enforced in September last year to lower the steep rise in property values, so that home ownership may be spread among the different categories of workers in our society. The restriction has had a dampening effect and property values have been said to fall by 15 to 25 per cent of values in August last year. However, prospect of a further significant decline in property values does not appear to be real in view of the steep rise in prices and costs of building materials, services and labour. The present property values seem already grounded upon real cost of materials and construction and appear unlikely to fall further significantly. This notwithstanding, the middle income group generally cannot afford the prices of houses in the private sector today, as these prices remain beyond their financial resources. The situation makes it important for the Government to start programming for ownership of HDB homes by the middle income group. The middle income group comprises professionals, administrators, and executives both in the public and private sectors upon whom, as the Government has admitted last year, the security and progress of Singapore depends. The middle income group would be assisted in some measure towards buying a home from the private sector if a portion of their savings in the Central Provident Fund could be used by them for this purpose. However, this suggestion was turned down by the Minister of State for Labour a few days ago in the debate on the Estimates for his Ministry. As long as all our workers can find in the meaning of hard work a practical realisation of their basic aspirations relating to true necessities and sound luxuries, our nation will continue, I think, to survive and prosper by the loyalty, skill and dedication of the middle income group workers. I hope the Minister will be able to state a favourable answer to me on this issue as much as to the hon. Member opposite and which answer, I am sure and agree with him, is very much awaited by members of the middle income group.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I agree with the Members for Bukit Panjang and Jurong when they said that the Primary Production Department should build small pig farms for letting out to small scale farmers so as to enable them to carry out pig farming. There are reasons for such a move. Firstly, this will help small farmers to alleviate their economic difficulties. At present, pig farmers in the rural areas, for example, Sembawang and Jurong, Bukit Panjang, and Nee Soon, are faced with the same difficulties. In order to comply with the regulations of the Ministry of the Environment, in other words they should not pollute the water resources, they must construct a drain round the pig farms to ensure that there is proper drainage of the filthy water. But it costs a few thousand dollars to build such a sewage system. This is quite beyond the means of the small farmers. Secondly, the building of pig farms will increase pig production. We know that because of the high cost of animal feed, small farmers were not able to carry on with pig farming, and hence there was a shortage in the supply of pigs. The result was that pig prices went up by 300 per cent from $50 to $220 per picul. This will increase the burden on the consumers. So long as the Primary Production Department could let out the pig farms at low rentals to the small farmers, and buy animal feed in bulk and sell it to the farmers there will be a reduction in prices of animal feed. Thus, there will be a balance between the supply and demand of pigs to bring down prices of pork. Thirdly, to prevent pollution in the farming areas where there are modern pig farms and facilities, the pig farmers can be grouped together in a collective farm so that the problem of pollution will not arise. Fourthly, the Member for Jurong said that in drafting such a project, the Primary Production Department seems to look after the interests of the big farmers because they are able to put in $1 million or $2 million capital, but for the small farmers even $10,000 is quite beyond their means. Sir, letting out such pig farms to the small farmers will get rid of the monopoly of the big farmers so that more and more pig farmers can take part in pig farming. Mr Speaker, Sir, if the Minister could accept such suggestions, namely, that the Primary Production Department builds pig farms and then sell or rent them out to farmers, I believe the small farmers in the rural areas will be grateful.

Since the Member for Serangoon Gardens has touched on Head LG subhead AA 3008, would the Member for Telok Blangah like to join in too?

Certainly, Sir, if it will help. But I am really going to touch on a slightly different aspect of the problem altogether. 3.00 p.m.

I am sure the Minister does not mind.

Very well, Sir,I have also given notice of amendments* to Head LG, subheads AA 2730 (item a), 3006 and 3008? Since the subject matter that I am going to discuss on all these subheads are related, I am wondering if I may, with your permission, Sir, range my discussion on all these three sub-heads simultaneously? * The amendments read as follows: Mr N. Govindasamy: (2) That the sum to be allocated for Head LG be reduced by $10 in respect of item (a) of subhead AA 2730. Mr N. Govindasamy: (4) That the sum to be allocated for Head LG be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AA 3006. Mr N. Govindasamy: Mr L. P. Rodrigo: (6) That the sum to be allocated for HEAD LG be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AA 3008.

Yes.

I am grateful to you, Sir, and to the Hon. Minister who has helped me solve a number of very knotty problems connected with the resettlement in my constituency. Sir, in addition to $506 million to be given as a loan to the Housing and Development Board under subhead AA 3008 and the appropriation of $10,552,000 to the Resettlement Department under subhead AA 3006, $30 million is to be given as a contribution under subhead AA 2730 to the Housing and Development Board for the financial year 1974. This totals up to $546,552,000. Sir, I am sure that doubling this appropriation would not even save the Housing and Development Board from the difficulty that it is facing in building the required number of housing units for our needs. Although the Housing and Development Board has been accorded world-wide acclaim for its achievements, it has not been able to satisfy our needs, the local needs. I believe it is not because we do not have the means to build more flats than at present but because the planning and programming of our housing requirements have gone haywire. Perhaps, the Minister being an amiable man has allowed himself to give in too easily to pressures by other Ministries and the statutory boards. As it is, the people affected by resettlement, although eligible for priority, have to wait for years before they are offered alternative accommodation. There are other categories of persons who are also eligible for priority accommodation. The latest addition to the priority list is ex-national servicemen. If we go on adding to this list of priority cases, then the day will come when normal applicants for Housing Board flats may have to wait a decade before they are allocated flats. Sir, if the Minister is not careful, one of these days, the Minister for Health, who is not here now, is going to ask for priority for people who undergo voluntary sterilization. As it is, we have now two queues - one for persons with priority and the other for persons without any priority. Let me explain what I mean by bad planning and inadequate programming. I can best illustrate this by quoting examples from my own constituency. By the end of 1971, part of Pulau Brani was to be used by MINDEF and the other part was appropriated for PSA. A survey was made and residents were told that they had to move out, but no Housing Board flats were set aside nor planned for orderly resettlement. They had been asked to register for areas of their choice. Many of them wanted flats in Telok Blangah, but upon registration when they requested that they be registered for flats in Telok Blangah, they were told that they would have to register for Henderson area which had apparently been set aside for them. However, when the Henderson flats were balloted, only a handful of them were allotted flats there. Again, in 1972 a few households were allocated flats far away from Telok Blangah, resulting in undue hardship to the persons affected. It took almost two years to resettle about half the households from Pulau Brani. Meanwhile, the school on the island was closed, quite rightly, as the student population had decreased and the remaining islanders found themselves practically marooned on the island as the sampan-ferrying facilities were disrupted. Sir, to-date almost 2« years after being informed that they would be resettled, a large number of households are still on the island without any basic communal or social service such as schools. Moreover, the houses on the island, which are not brick and mortar houses but built on stilts with planks and attap or zinc roofing, are in a serious state of disrepair. They need constant repair and maintenance. Once indication was given that they would be resettled soon, neither the chief tenants nor the house-owners were prepared to incur additional expenses on repairs. Partially abandoned huts also pose many health and fire hazards. This is what I mean by improper planning and programming before urban renewal is undertaken. Sir, resettlement is not a pleasant business though it is sometimes necessary. Let me liken resettlement to surgery for the removal of a cancerous growth with which you are very familiar. Sir, when a surgeon needs to perform a surgical operation, he will have all his instruments ready, the theatre prepared, a ready bed in the ward, and assurance of an adequate supply of blood made available, before even deciding to wheel the patient into the theatre. And during surgery, he will use a sharp scalpel and make a firm deft one-stroke incision. He does not go about it using an old razor blade, nor after having gone halfway through the operation look for a hospital bed or look for a supply of blood when the patient begins to bleed. This is what the Housing and Development Board is doing today.

After such a gory description of resettlement, perhaps the Minister would like to reply!

Sir, may I first deal with the question of commercial pig farming which has been referred to by three Members of Parliament? First, the Member for Bukit Panjang has given some details about the proposals, which were quite right. There are eight 5-acre lots of land located off Bah Soon Pah Road which were recently offered for commercial pig farming. Members may be interested to know that of the lots offered there have been seven tenders, some wanting more than one lot. The whole object of this exercise, which is a pilot scheme, is to increase the supply of pigs for the market. The Members have suggested that the Government should build these multi-storey structures and rent them out to the smaller farmers. The Member for Sembawang went further to say that the Primary Production Department should buy the feed in bulk and sell them to the farmers. Next, he will suggest that the Primary Production Department should rear the pigs for them! I think all these three Members know, if they are active in their constituencies, that the work done by the Primary Production Department over the years has been to help small farmers. I do not propose to go into the details. But to allege that we are only helping the rich farmers and that it is not in accordance with the policies of our own Party, is not fair. They have also grumbled about the silly mistakes made by the Primary Production Department, one of which was to let out these lots of land. Only time will tell whether this is a silly mistake. Assuming the project is successful, we may then go on to smaller projects. But for the moment, in order to be successful we think that the project ought to be a substantial one. I am also surprised that the Primary Production Department is blamed for evicting small farmers from the catchment areas. The Members should have taken this point up when the Ministry of the Environment was being discussed in this House. It is the Ministry of the Environment that is in charge of pollution, and it is the Public Utilities Board that is building the reservoir in Kranji. The question is whether they want enough fresh water or enough pigs. So where the pig farms pollute some of the streams, we move them away from the streams. Hence, this pig farming project. But they have got to decide what they want. And sometimes the Government decides this for them. The Member for Toa Payoh grumbled about the increases in prices of Housing Board flats. I would not go into the details as to the reasons why the prices have gone up. He just wants to know why we did not spread this over a period of eight years so that the blow would not be so heavy. It is not easy to spread it over eight years. Because I do not know what will happen in eight years time! Perhaps the prices will have to go up again at the end of this year or next; I do not know, but I hope not. But to plan for so long and spread it over eight years is not a practical solution to the problem of rising prices. 3.15 p.m. The Member then said that because of the shortage of flats, unauthorised subletting should not be interfered with. The Member will remember that sometime last year or early this year, the Housing and Development Board announced that sublettings would be allowed. A three-room flat could be sublet, so could a four-room or five-room flat provided there are not many occupants already in the flat. I would suggest to the Member that he advises his constituents who have sublet their flats to regularise the position because it is no longer illegal to sublet Housing Board flats. And they can go further; they can even sublet Housing Board flats to non-citizens. The Member for Kim Keat wanted to know when legislation will be ready in respect of the Government statement made last September about foreigners owning land, and whether the delay is deliberate. I can assure him that it is not. What is the point of delaying this legislation? The Government gets no benefit from this. It is not simple legislation and we have had several drafts drawn up by the Attorney-General. The Member will be happy to know that a final draft is now before Government, and the Bill will be introduced at our next meeting of Parliament, after the Budget session. Meanwhile, the Registrar of Titles has received quite a few applications from foreigners to purchase land. These applications are being processed by a committee and replies will be given soon. Anyone who does not know whom to apply to, should apply to the Registrar of Titles. The Member for Bras Basah grumbled about land acquisition. He made some good points. One is on delays in issuing awards. There have been some delays of up to four years, which I agree is unfair. But I had on several occasions in the year before last directed those in charge to issue their awards as soon as possible and at the latest within a period of six months. But there are difficulties in cases where a large piece of land has been acquired and there are thousands of people on the land, and in cases where there are several owners. A survey of those present on the land takes some time. But the Member can rest assured that I have already directed and the Land Collectors are doing their best to expedite the issue of awards. The Member also talks of appeals, saying that appeals are no good because they cost money and who wants to appeal against the Government. Well, some people do. Is the Member suggesting that I amend the Land Acquisition Act to get rid of appeals? The Members for Kim Keat and Serangoon Gardens want to know more details about middle income housing. I only hope some other Members opposite do not accuse them of not being for the poor people. The Housing and Development Board and the Urban Redevelopment Authority will jointly be constructing about 1,500 to 2,000 residential flats per year for sale to the middle income group, that is to say, those who are not eligible for HDB housing. Six sites have been selected to provide about 3,200 units of flats in the first few years. The first lot of flats is expected to be ready in 1976 and more details will be announced shortly. The six sites proposed for these houses are at Tanjong Rhu, on the reclaimed land in front of the Singapore Swimming Club, about 760 units; Upper Thomson Road about 240 units; Farrer Road about 600 units; East Coast reclaimed land about 900 units; Mount Pleasant about 320 units; and Braddell Road, near Braddell Rise, about 400 units. A joint company, the Housing and Urban Company (Proprietary) Limited, has been incorporated to undertake the construction and sale. Obviously there must be limits to the incomes of those wanting to purchase these flats. At the moment, if a person's income exceeds $1,500 a month, he cannot purchase a Housing Board flat. Perhaps it would be fair to allow those earning, say, between $1,500 and $2,500 or $3,000 to purchase these new middle income houses. Of course, they must be Singapore citizens and, further, they must not own any other property. If they already own a house, then they will be prohibited from buying any of these new flats. The Member for Serangoon Gardens also wants an answer from me about the use of Central Provident Fund savings for middle income housing. The CPF does not come under my Ministry, and whether or not it is desirable to allow intending purchasers of middle income housing to draw their CPF monies is a matter over which I have no jurisdiction and on which I have no comments. The Member for Telok Blangah alleges that planning has gone haywire in my Ministry. If it has, God help Telok Blangah. He compares the exercise in Pulau Brani with that of a surgeon who does not prepare at all but goes in with a blunt scalpel. The "surgeon" in Pulau Brani is not the Housing Board or the Ministry of National Development. It is the Ministry of Defence and the Port of Singapore Authority. They have gone to the island to develop it and my Ministry has been left to pick up the parts. We do not want Pulau Brani, and we never pushed the Member's constituents out. Others did it. But we are supposed to provide public housing.

You are the instrument!

We are not the knife. We are supposed to provide housing as quickly as possible because pressure is put on us by the Ministry of Defence, who are in a hurry to get in, and by the MP, who is in a hurry to get houses for his constituents. All I can say is: be patient. We are doing our best. It is not easy to build Housing Board flats. It is not like producing motor cars, chickens or eggs. We are increasing the number of flats and there are so many demands spread throughout the island. So it is not fair to allege that the number of those entitled to priority is increasing to such a great extent that no one else will have a chance. The number does not exceed ten per cent, whether it includes the Army, the Police or some civil servants. But I assure the Member that about 90 per cent goes to the general public, including the resettlement cases. Sir, I do not know whether I have dealt with all the queries. There have been so many. But if I have not, I am prepared to be reminded of what I have omitted.

Sir, may I just clarify the question I raised in connection with unauthorised occupiers? I am aware of the Housing Board's recent policy to allow subletting to certain categories of applicants. In fact, I have assisted quite a number of these people to regularise the position. What I was referring to is the group of unauthorised occupiers who cannot meet the required stipulations, in other words a flat owner has more than three children to a room and the unauthorised occupiers number more than four persons to a room. These are the people who are in a desperate position because while they are waiting for a flat to be allocated, maybe in a year or two years from now, they are unable to find any other form of alternative accommodation. So my request to the Minister is whether he would ask the Housing Board to consider relaxing this rule?

Sir, if I were to ask the Housing Board to relax that rule, the whole of Toa Payoh will be turned into one big slum. The answer is no, unless the Member wants over-crowded flats. 3.30 p.m.

Sir, for the record, I wish to state that I was not seeking an answer from the Minister on the issue of the Central Provident Fund. I merely mentioned that, in view of the Minister of State for Labour having turned down the request for the release of Central Provident Fund contributions for the purchase of property in the private sector by people not qualified for HDB flats, the decision by the Minister, such as the one released just now, was very much wanting. I was, in fact, not seeking an answer on the provident fund from the Minister. However, may I say that the answer given by the Minister has indeed been favourable, and I am gratified for it and I am sure that a large number of people in the middle income group are similarly gratified.

(In Mandarin): Sir, the Minister for National Development said just now that he does not agree to the construction of flatted pig farms for renting purposes. He also said that the next thing I would ask is to get the Primary Production Department to rear pigs for the farmers. This is not my intention at all. But if it is the intention of the Minister to get the Primary Production Department to rear pigs, I think it will be most welcome. Although I appreciate that water pollution comes under the portfolio of the Ministry of the Environment, I think the present problem is a policy for the Government to implement. If we have modern flatted pig farms made available to small farmers on a renting basis, it will help a great deal in reducing water pollution. Irrespective of which Ministry is responsible for water pollution, the ultimate result is the same. With these flatted farms we can cut down water pollution, and that is the Government's intention. So this is a plan to be welcomed. In any case, I urge the Minister concerned to reconsider this matter. If it cannot be done at the present stage, perhaps he can consider it at the second or third stage so that when this plan is implemented we will be able to have flatted farms available for small farmers.

Sir, as the Minister has rightly put it, whether or not the Bah Soon Pah farm will succeed only time will tell. The Minister also informed the House that besides the big project there are some smaller projects. I wonder whether the Minister could inform the House what the smaller projects are that his department intends to undertake. As regards the question of pollution, I think the problem is not so acute that we have to choose between water and pig production. If the Government is more sympathetic towards the affected farmers, it can help them move away from the streams which run into our reservoirs, by giving them financial assistance in the form of subsidies or low-interest loans. I think the Government should do something now to help these poor affected small farmers, otherwise they will disappear and only the big farmers will be left, i.e, the capitalist farmers, who can then easily manipulate the pig prices.

Sir, the Minister did not quite fully answer my question just now. I wonder whether he would indicate the price range for middle income housing which he proposed, and when will this be open for registration. Sir, may I now speak on resettlement and compensation, which had already been touched on by other Members?

I think it is better to let the Minister reply first.

All right, Sir.

Sir, if I am to take all 15 Members at once, I must at least combine the subject, otherwise they will not get a satisfactory reply. And if all 35 Members opposite are going to range over the whole Budget, then I will not give them satisfactory answers. So let us confine ourselves to the subject on which we are discussing. If any Member wants to speak in clarification or for further information, by all means do so.

Sir, I would like to give my support to the point made by the Member for Jurong. As far as I know, some of these farms are situated quite far away from the reservoirs. Even then the farmers have been asked to implement certain measures which cost a lot of money, such as building septic tanks. It would cost something like $10,000 to $20,000 to build a septic tank, and I do not think any of these small farmers can really afford it. Perhaps what the Government could do is to consider a comprehensive plan. Look at any one particular area and see whether Government could subsidise to some extent, because after all the Government builds sewerage, drains and all sorts of infrastructure which are not charged directly to the citizens. Therefore, by developing such kind of facilities on a collective basis, the Government can definitely cut down the cost, and even if it asked the farmer to contribute to some extent, I am sure they will be prepared to do so. At the moment, they seemed to be at the mercy of the inspector going around. If he feels like it, he says, "Look here, I want a septic tank built there. If there is no septic tank, your licence is withdrawn." This is not the way. I think there should be a comprehensive plan to develop all these measures.

Sir, to the Member for Sembawang, I was merely pulling his leg. I think he understood that. He said that we should do something. We are doing something. Hence, these five-acre lots which we have offered, and which he has criticised. We are not against the poor farmers, in spite of what the Member for Jurong says. We can still have pigs near the catchment area provided the streams are not polluted, which means that the pig farms have to be moved. If there is available land, they can move there. When Seletar Reservoir was constructed, it was Government that built the cesspits. The Member should have raised his question with the Minister for the Environment. His inspectors go round and check on pollution, not mine. But we are doing our best not to eliminate the poor farmers, but in the process I think the backyard farmer will be pushed out. He is not really a farmer. He lives there with a few fruit trees, rears a few chickens and keeps a few pigs for Chinese New Year.

Sir, although my constituency is an urban one - we do not have pigs in an urban constituency -- I fully agree with the Member for Jalan Kayu who suggested that Government should give subsidy to the farmers so that they can bring down the cost of rearing pigs. I would like to suggest that, if Government were able to give a subsidy, it would be good because it would enable the farmer to reduce the price of pigs. And when the price of pork is reduced, it would be in the interest of the people of Singapore who eat pork.

Just a point of clarification, Sir,It is not my intention to suggest that we subsidise the farmers. What I have suggested is something quite different.

I am glad that Members have clarified the air, as it were. Perhaps I can close the discussion on this particular item by reminding those Members from the rural areas of the time they ran around just before the last election, when the prices of pigs went below $50, and put considerable pressure on my Ministry as to what we would do and could do to help the pig farmers. Now, the price of pigs has gone up. All I say is, who are the Members who represent the consumers here?

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $766,590 for Head LA ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. Head LD -- The following amendment stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy -

Sir, I am not moving.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head LD be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BA 1111*. (* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Ong Teng Cheong.) Sir, this is an item in respect of the Bases Economic Conversion Department. In my dealings with this particular Department, I have often found them to be quite inflexible and insensitive to human problems. I had on a number of occasions to go there concerning notices for the demolition of illegal structures or unauthorised change of use of premises. Despite my pleas for extension of time, the officers have displayed a complete lack of sympathy by flatly refusing to grant an extension in a number of cases. Yet, in one particular case, after my constituents had managed to obtain a letter from a particular Minister - incidentally it was not the Minister for National Development - the extension of time was immediately granted. So one gets the impression that the department seems to be practising double standards. They seem to consider that the request is based not so much on the merits of the case but on who puts it up. From the complaints I have received, some of the staff would appear to be rather off-handed in attending to members of the public. I give them the allowance, as this is a fairly new department. It may well be that the staff are not sufficiently well-oriented to provide courteous service, and I would appreciate the Minister's attention in this matter. 3.45 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I only wish to ask the Minister if he will inform the House of the achievements of the Bases Economic Conversion Department, and the progress made so far in the conversion programme. I need not stress, in our land-scarce State, the vital role played by the Bases Economic Conversion Department in expeditiously redeploying land, formerly occupied by British bases, to economic use. I shall also be pleased if the Minister could indicate when will the full conversion programme be completed, and what will be the status of the Bases Economic Conversion Department after it has completed its conversion programme?

Sir, the Bases Economic Conversion Department was formed in 1968 and it was under the portfolio of the Prime Minister. But the Department has since the 1st April, 1973, been functioning as a division of the Land Office in the Ministry of Law. I hope it is not being suggested that civil servants in the Department were previously inflexible and that since coming to the Land Office things have changed. But the policy is the same and, since 1972, the Department has handled a total of 149 enforcement cases which have been the subject of representations by Members of Parliament. Of these, 100 cases were dealt with departmentally - 35 representations from Members of Parliament for extension of time to permit voluntary demolition were all approved, and 65 cases, 18 of which involved minor alterations and contraventions, which did not violate the planning or building by-laws were regularised. The remaining 49 cases were rejected. The policy appears to me to be flexible. Seven appeals against decisions of the Land Office were dealt with by the Licensing Committee which authorised regularisation in four cases and rejected the other three. Of the 42 appeals made to me, 38 have to be rejected, three have been regularised, and one case is still being processed. It is significant that out of these 149 cases, 77 cases were from the Chia Keng and Simbang areas. Simbang is a catchment area, and most of the appeals that were turned down concerned unauthorised structures, mainly pigsties, within the immediate vicinity of the catchment areas, thus adding to pollution problems. At Chia Keng, most of the appeals encountered concerned illegal motor workshops or illegal and unsightly dumping of junk on State land. Enforcement action, of course, had to be vigorously pursued in this area, which would otherwise have become a centre for illegal workshops and factories. Enforcement officers have the unpleasant task of ensuring that policy objectives are successfully implemented and not frustrated by violations of conditions of temporary occupation licences. Only limited discretionary power is allowed to Senior Enforcement Officers in regard to minor infringement for the period of time that could be granted to carry out demolition. The Member for Kim Keat wants to know details of the work done by the Bases Economic Conversion Department. The planning work involves both short-term and long-term planning. Short-term planning has, as the main objective, the evaluation of claims and the allocation of facilities handed back to the Singapore Government to ensure optimum utilisation of land and buildings. In the case of vacant land or land used for farming purposes, the immediate objective was to prevent encroachment. Wherever possible, such facilities were converted to commercial or industrial uses. Thus, the Naval Dockyard which was transferred to the ownership of the Singapore Government on 1st December, 1968, was converted to commercial use, and the Sembawang Shipyard (Pte.) Ltd, has now developed into a major thriving ship-repair yard. Similarly, the weapons and radio repair facilities of the Naval Dockyard were converted into an international service centre, and the Singapore Electronic and Engineering (Pte.) Ltd., wholly-owned by the Singapore Government, was formed to operate the facility. The Loyang Boom Defence Depot with its pier, slipway, warehouse and machine shop, equipment and buildings, provided the necessary facilities for the establishment of an offshore support base for oil drilling operations in South-east Asia. Various facilities at the air-bases at Seletar and Changi have been utilised in connection with the development of the aerospace industry. And, as the Member will know, Sentosa itself is being developed by the Sentosa Development Corporation into a tourist resort. The long-term planning proceeded simultaneously. Plans for the redevelopment of the entire areas to fit in with the overall Master Plan for the island were prepared by the Planning Department in consultation with the Bases Economic Conversion Department. These long-term plans are being continually reviewed, revised and implemented in accordance with the overall timetable for the redevelopment of the areas. Thus former Defence lands which fall within the general areas of Telok Blangah, Woodlands, Ang Mo Kio and Changi Village, are being integrated with adjoining State land, or private land which has been acquired to enable comprehensive redevelopment. The Changi and Telok Blangah redevelopment schemes are underway, and proposals for the necessary land acquisition to implement the Woodlands and Ang Mo Kio New Town development are being undertaken. The Senoko area of the Naval Base has been levelled off by the Jurong Town Corporation for redevelopment as an industrial area. Seventeen acres of land at the Naval Base are being developed by the JTC to provide about 660 units of housing. Perhaps I have given the Member sufficient information.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would just like to clarify that my complaint of inflexibility is more on the question of extension of time. I have pointed out that - and I think the Minister would appear to seek to evade the issue - a request put up by a Minister was granted, but from a Back-bencher the request for extension was not granted. What explanation is there for that?

I am sorry I did not touch on that point. Let me assure all Members here that requests from Members of Parliament, on behalf of their constituents for extensions of time, are dealt with by my Ministry very sympathetically. We do not distinguish between Ministers, Ministers of State, or Backbenchers. If I had personally refused the Member's request for an extension of time, I would never have given blessing to a similar request made by a Minister, unless it was a mistake. One can never justify granting an extension of time when a Minister makes the request, after having turned down a similar request from a Backbencher.

I must thank the Minister for the assurance. I do hope that the message is driven across loud and clear to the entire civil service. Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $2,631,350 for Head LD ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $50,500,000 for Head LD ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head LG --

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head LG be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AC 1109. Sir, with the acute shortage of housing in Singapore, the private developers are engaged in a new racket. Before an estate is declared open for booking, relatives and associates of developers book the houses in advance. So when the actual advertisement comes out in the papers the property is already three-quarters booked. What little is left open to the public is grabbed by speculators within the first hour or two. The genuine house-buyer who shows interest in any property is told that he has to wait for someone to cancel his booking. This is where the speculators make an instant profit. What measures does the Minister intend to take to stop this racket? Too many members of the public have been made suckers by these unscrupulous capitalists. Can the Minister bring about legislation to fix a ceiling for prices of these private houses?

Mr P. Govindaswamy, do you know what this subhead says?

Yes, Sir. And I am speaking on that subhead, Sir.

It is all right then.

Sir, I wish to raise another two or three points with regard to buildings. There are some old buildings which are going to collapse, but the owners do not want to repair them. It is very dangerous for the subtenants to live in those buildings. The Building Control Division of the PWD must go and check on those buildings to find out whether they will stand for long or not. If they agree that the buildings will not last long, they should ask the owner to repair them. Otherwise, they should demolish the buildings, take the land and put up new buildings. Many tenants have been complaining of leaks here and there, they have no other house to go to, and the owners do not want to carry out repairs. The Minister must look into the matter to see if something could be done about these old houses. 4.00 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, private housing developers are at liberty to sell their houses to whom they like, whether relatives, friends or members of the public. They are not even obliged to advertise their housing development; they can sell their houses by private negotiations. Some people merely register their intention to buy many houses, of course hoping that prices will go up and then resell. Is it advisable that we should stop this practice? Intending purchasers are subject to the market forces of supply and demand as in any other commodities, and control of prices of houses cannot be a good measure. What we can do is to encourage the construction of more residential units by giving incentives, such as higher densities and exemption of certain development charges. The Member's suggestion to have legislation enacted to deal with this matter is certainly not going to encourage the construction of housing units. In fact, it would be unwise for Government to interfere with the free enterprise system. If such control is attempted, houses are likely to be sold in the black market, making it even more difficult for members of the public to buy houses in the open market. It is also likely that private housing developers will build less residential units if they are subject to such control. As regards old houses, I take it that the Member is referring to houses which are under rent control. The owners, of course, are anxious to evict their tenants, sub-tenants and other occupiers and, therefore, would not repair the premises. Sometimes the premises are repaired by those in occupation, and sometimes we call the owners in and order them to repair their houses. In some cases we acquire land on which such houses are situated. There have even been cases where owners were ordered to repaint their houses. This has led to many representations from Members of Parliament saying that the prices of paint have gone up considerably and that their constituents cannot afford to paint their houses.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I agree with the Minister that in a situation of free enterprise, the question of price fixing is determined by the position of supply and demand. But here, it is not a simple question of supply and demand. I think it is a question of excessive manipulation. In the other areas like the prices of basic commodities and so on, the Ministry of Finance has set up an Anti-Inflationary Committee to deal with them. This excessive manipulation has helped to inflame the inflationary situation in the prices of houses. In consistency with the recent policy of Government to fight inflation, which must also include housing, I wonder whether this matter could be referred to the Anti-Inflationary Committee set up by the Ministry of Finance.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not think it is a question of legislation. The Housing and Development Board is building more houses for the lower income group. Moreover, Members have heard me just now stating the sites where the middle income housing is coming up. But if the Member is suggesting that we interfere with the private developers and restrain them from selling to whom they like and at what price, then I would say that such a move would be highly inadvisable. We had some limitations placed on land speculation last year, which were announced in the policy decision of the Government and is to be followed by legislation, but not in the manner suggested by the Member.

Mr Speaker, Sir, regarding the price ceiling, the Planning Department has some power to deal with this matter. For example, before approving the plan, the Planning Department can find out how much the building will cost and how much the developers are going to sell it. The Planning Department can investigate on all these matters and put a ceiling on the selling price in relation to cost. The Planning Department has the power to approve any project. If the Planning Department turns down a project, a developer cannot put up any building. Therefore, developers must keep proper records of a building project, how much it costs and so on, and only then will the Planning Department consider it for approval. I do not know whether the Minister will consider my suggestion and take action on it.

Mr Speaker, Sir, this is the same suggestion, and I have said that it interferes with the business of the private developers. If planning approval is going to be made subject to the cost of the buildings, are we to go further and say that a developer should sell his buildings at a certain price, and allow him to make only 5 or 10 per cent profit? We might not have any private developers around. But if it is a situation where we want to control the amount of development, then we could go into the question of costs. In fact, a Statistical Unit is being set up by my Ministry, with the help of the Deputy Prime Minister, to computerise not only the various components of our building capacity but also to give details at any time of the building construction industry. From the information gathered we can regulate our planning approvals on a much better basis. But certainly it is not to be done with the object that the Member has in mind.

In view of the Minister's explanation, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr N. Govindasamy has spoken on amendments* (2) and (4). (*See Col. 641.) The following amendment stood in the names of Mr Lee Yiok Seng, Encik Rahmat Bin Kenap Al-Haj and Haji Mohd. Ariff Bin Suradi: (3) That the sum to be allocated for Head LG be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AA 2730.

I am not moving, Sir.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head LG be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AA 2730. Sir, it is most regrettable to learn that in the implementation of the recent redevelopment plan by Government, the Member of Parliament for the constituency concerned was not consulted in respect of the resettlement scheme. No notices of eviction were also given to the residents affected. As in the case of urban renewal in Kampung Ubi last year, the Member of Parliament for that constituency was not consulted. This has caused confusion, and has created the impression that the work has no system at all. What is most regrettable is that the residents affected by the resettlement are holders of Singapore blue identity cards and they have been staying there for many years. They own these houses and, therefore, they have not been offered Housing Board flats. Some of these blue identity card holders were born in Singapore. Because they lost their birth certificates and they cannot remember the dates of their birth, they were given blue identity cards by the Government. These people do not have alternative accommodation in Singapore, and the notice of resettlement compels them to leave but the Government does not offer them any alternative accommodation. This has caused confusion among the residents. I would like to ask this question. If these people are not given the right to alternative accommodation in Singapore, what about letting them live on rafts in Singapore territorial waters? Will they be given permission to live in rafts in Singapore waters? If this happens, more tourists will come to Singapore to see our citizens living on rafts in Singapore waters, a way of life that is permitted by the Singapore Government. It will be very surprising if it happens. On humanitarian grounds, the Government should not shirk its responsibility towards the permanent residents holding blue identity cards if their houses are affected by re-development projects. It is the responsibility of the Government to find alternative accommodation for these people because they have nowhere else to go. The Government should consider this matter on humanitarian grounds so that justice can be upheld.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to seek a clarification from the Minister for Law and National Development. Can the Minister explain to this House the development projects for Kampung Kembangan constituency? Listed in the Budget for 1974, we find a contribution of $30 million and a loan of $506 million to the Housing and Development Board. There was an explanation by the Minister earlier, but there was no mention of any development in Kampung Kembangan. I would therefore like to ask the Minister when will the development plans for Kampung Kembangan be implemented.

Mr Speaker, Sir, sometime ago the Government did come up with a plan to construct pre-fabricated houses. Can the Minister enlighten me as to when these pre-fabricated houses will be built or if they have already been built? These pre-fabricated houses will alleviate the housing problems that we are facing at the present moment, especially housing for the lower income group.

Sir, if I may first deal with the Member for Potong Pasir with his request for information on pre-fabricated houses. Work will start sometime this year, but it will take at least a year or more before the first flats come up. 4.15 p.m. Sir, may I remind the Member for Geylang Serai that there are certain advantages in being a Singapore citizen. One advantage is that a citizen is entitled to low-cost accommodation. There is such a long list of applicants, more than 80,000 wanting to purchase flats and about 25,000 wanting to rent. Last year we built about 23,000 units. So obviously our capacity to build is not adequate enough to meet all demands. It is for this good reason that we are unable to provide accommodation for those who are not our citizens. Citizens come first. However, to relieve the hardship of certain deserving cases, the Housing and Development Board has allocated BECD or British reverted quarters at economic rentals to permanent residents. More recently, Housing Board flat owners have been permitted to sublet one or two rooms to permanent residents who are eligible as sub-tenants, so that those with blue identity cards are not exactly homeless. The Member also complains that not one of the MPs for Geylang Serai, Kampung Kembangan and Kampung Ubi has been consulted on resettlement. In the past I have on many occasions seen all three MPs to try and help iron out some of the problems in the Perseverance Estate. The MP himself is well aware, having been in this House, of Government's acquisition of large tracts of land in the estate. The first phase of development at the Jalan Eunos estate bounded by Paya Lebar Way, Jalan Eunos, the extension of Sims Avenue and Paya Lebar Road, falls partly within the Kampung Ubi Constituency and partly within the Kampung Kembangan Constituency. Resettlement of the affected residents is now in progress. Construction will commence in about three months' time after all the affected buildings have been cleared from the site. The Housing and Development Board proposes to build the following flats within the first phase of development: about 700 two-room flats; 1,350 three-room flats; 550 four-room flats and 380 five-room flats, at a total estimated cost of $50.5 million.

(In Malay): Sir, I did not mean to ask about those who applied for HDB flats. I was referring to those people with blue identity cards whose houses are affected by the redevelopment project. These people own the houses they live in. They have no alternative accommodation. Where can they go? Do they have to live on rafts? These people are permanent residents holding blue identity cards. If the Government shirks its responsibility, why must it give blue identity cards to permanent citizens? Their houses are affected by the redevelopment project. This does not mean that they want to apply for HDB flats. Therefore, on humanitarian grounds the Government should think of giving them alternative accommodation.

Sir, I have already set out the reasons why we cannot provide them with alternative accommodation. But there are other ways in which they can find accommodation, and I have mentioned that they can rent BECD properties or, if they wish, they can be sub-tenants of HDB premises. But taking it a step further, is the Member suggesting that unless we provide such accommodation the redevelopment of Geylang Serai must cease?

Sir, I am just wondering whether the Minister is aware that compensations are being paid to owners and tenants of unauthorised structures and buildings, which are affected by clearance and resettlement schemes, in order to make room for development of public schemes. Some of these unauthorised structures and buildings were under court mandatory orders and because of the substantial backlog of such mandatory orders, action on many of these cases has been pending for years. There is obviously a serious lack of co-ordination between the departments concerned. I hope the Minister will look into the matter, as this unnecessary expenditure and wastage of public funds has got to be stopped.

Sir, it is easier to detect unauthorised structures on State land. If they are put up and allowed to remain, it is only because of the condition that when they are required to vacate the State land, they will not be paid compensation. It is more difficult with cases of unauthorised structures on private property. Sometimes where the project is an urgent one, the department feels that perhaps a little compensation would give them quicker vacant possession. But if this has happened in many a case, I will certainly look into the allegations made by the Member for Kim Keat.

Sir, would the Minister care to explain why the Housing Board fell short of the target of building 25,000 to 30,000 flats, as we had publicised last year? And what were the shortcomings? Would the Minister urge the Housing Board to accelerate the building programme to cope up with the long waiting list?

There were no shortcomings. It was not the intention to build 30,000 units overnight or over a year. It is not easy to raise our target from 20,000 to 30,000 units in one year. We can do it over several years, and the target is to do it over five years with the ultimate object of building 40,000 units per year. But it is going to take time. It means more architects, more land, more building construction workers, more materials. Once again, I have to tell Members the same thing: it is not like producing motorcars.

Sir, developing on the point of increasing the number of units to be built by the Housing and Development Board, can I ask the Minister whether it is his view that the programme to improve or to convert one-room standard type Housing Board flats built some ten or more years ago will necessarily have to be shelved for the next five years? If so, will the consequent labour available be employed to construct more flats?

Sir, the Member need not have any fears in that respect. Wherever it is found advisable, we tear down old standard type one-room flats to make way for better type of development. This will go on with the years.

(In Malay): Sir, I hope the Government will consider giving alternative accommodation to people whose houses are affected by redevelopment plans. Or they should at least be given assistance. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head LG be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AA 3007. Sir, you may recall that on the 24th October, 1972, when we were debating the President's Speech in this House, I brought up the question of strengthening supervision on road construction in the rural areas. This was recorded in Hansard, Vol. 32 [cols. 916-7]. Sir, I am sad to say that, to-date, the situation has not changed. Take, for example, the pedestrian pavement at Hong Kah Road in my constituency. The work was so badly done that it was damaged within three months after its completion. Reports were repeatedly made to the department concerned. By now only one side has been repaired. The other side is still in a bad condition. I do not know what has gone wrong. Another example is a road called Lorong Kabong which was metalled half a year ago. Now pot-holes exist all over the road, and some are so big that the diameters are not less than 1.5 metres. Naturally this road needs a major repair. Sir, the point I am trying to stress is that instead of patching up pot-holes every now and then, why do we not correctly plan on the necessary quality of road to be constructed and, at the same time, strengthen supervision on construction to ensure that no malpractices, such as the short-supply of materials or short-work of labour, take place? In so doing, I think we can save a lot of money which can be utilised to build more roads for the rural folk. 4.30 p.m.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I agree fully with the Member for Jurong that construction work in the rural areas should be taken care of by the Government. More funds should be provided for construction work in the rural areas. I am pleased to note that there is an increase in the allocation of funds for road construction in the rural areas. Although the amount increased is not very substantial, it shows that the Government is looking after the interests of the people in the rural areas. With this meagre sum of money it is difficult to carry out work effectively. I would suggest to the Minister that more construction work should be carried out by the national service boys in the spirit of gotong royong, so that the local residents can also participate in it. As the cost of labour is rising and also the prices tendered by the contractors have gone up, we should encourage the local residents and the national servicemen to participate in construction work, in the gotong royong style, so that we can save labour costs.

Sir, since so much has been said on roads, I thought I might as well join in the chorus rather than wait until my amendment* under Head LH subhead BA 1109 comes up * The amendment reads as follows: (2)That the sum to be allocated for Head LH be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BA 1109. Sir, during the last few years many new roads have been constructed and many existing ones have been widened in Singapore. Generally the department is to be commended for a job well done. Had it not been the case, traffic congestion would have been much worse than it already is in Singapore. However, in recent months it is the consensus of the travelling public that the condition of road surfaces seems to have deteriorated rather badly. It could well be another indirect measure to discourage car ownership! Except for the so-called VIP roads, pot-holes, uneven surface, protruding manhole culverts and poor patchy repairs are to be seen all over the island. I am not so worried about the comfort of people travelling in cars but rather the question of road safety. I think poor roads are quite often the cause of road accidents. Repair work appears to progress too slowly. For example, one section of Yio Chu Kang Road collapsed months ago, and in the process it "swallowed" a car. Fortunately, nobody was hurt. Up till today, I am sorry to say, nothing has been done. The road has still not been repaired and the traffic has to be re-routed through Seletar Hills estate, and all the residents there are suffering the air and noise pollution.

Perhaps I should join in the chorus, Sir. The poor condition of road surfaces is generally due to the following factors. The frequent opening up of roads for the laying of services by the various service departments, water, gas, electricity, the Singapore Telephone Board and others, thus undermining the stability of the roads; spillage of fuel oil from vehicles, especially public buses, thus causing deterioration of the road surfaces; a high density of traffic nowadays subjecting the roads to very severe stresses and abrasive actions. For heavily used roads with high density traffic, it is necessary to resurface the roads with a new coat of bituminous premix once in every five years to maintain a good riding surface. The PWD itself has a yearly programme for the resurfacing of roads. However, owing to the limited funds allocated, the amount of resurfacing work that can be done cannot cover all the roads that normally require resurfacing. Consequently, only the very bad roads are given priority in the programme. But there are certain roads under this priority scheme which even the PWD cannot resurface, because a service department may have notified the PWD that it is about to dig up that road in a few months, and therefore it would be a waste of time and costs. May I ask all Members of Parliament to help in this way? They represent 65 constituencies and they can help by telling me which roads have defects and where. It is not possible for me to go round the whole of Singapore. But I do, on occasions, see holes on the road or part of a road that has collapsed, and on my complaint these are attended to immediately. Members of Parliament represent the whole of Singapore. I would suggest to them that whenever they travel, not necessarily in their own constituency, if they see a big pot-hole, they can drop my Parliamentary Secretary a note giving the exact site and the name of the road, and I assure them that their complaint will be attended to. The Member for Jalan Kayu has referred to a road that had completely collapsed. It is being attended to, and it will take some time to complete it. I myself have passed that road and 1 was a bit annoyed to have to be diverted. But it is not just roads in the rural areas that have been neglected. I was astounded on one occasion by the number of holes I saw along Jurong Road which, in fact, constituted a danger to traffic. However, we seek your assistance: tell us where the bad defects are and I assure you that repairs will immediately be done.

Sir, I would just like to say a few words. In addition to being petition writers, hon. Members of this House now got another job as Inspectors of Roads! I think the Minister has not replied to the point on the standard of supervision raised by the Member for Jurong, which I think is a good one. I have seen many stretches of roads newly repaired, but the condition was no better than what it was before.

Sir, I just wish to mention that, as against the Member for Jalan Kayu, I welcome the suggestion of the Minister. I hope that the Member for Sembawang, in particular, will react very intensely to the Minister's suggestion, because being a constituent in his constituency I am aware of the vulnerable nature of many of the roads in that constituency, and I am rather discouraged that there appears to be extreme passivity on his part.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I am certainly aware that the Member for Serangoon Gardens is living in my constituency. He should also appreciate that he lives in a private housing estate and roads in private housing estates, I think, are the responsibility of the house-owners themselves. Should there be any need for repairs, the house-owners should collectively be responsible for the cost of such repairs. He cannot expect the Government to pay out of public funds to repair a private road in a private housing estate, which is a luxurious one.

Sir, I do not think it is a question of supervision alone. Perhaps the Member for Jalan Kayu came to that conclusion when I asked Members for assistance. They live in different parts of Singapore, and all I ask of them is their help. I agree that the surfaces of some of our roads have deteriorated, and in the case of the complaint of the Member for Jalan Kayu, the culvert collapsed, hence the road collapsed. Whether it was a faulty construction, I do not know. But I need their help and also their help to get more money from the Minister for Finance. It is the Roads Department that does not always get what it asks for. It is usually $1 million short. So the Department does its best with the money available. But I am not putting the blame on the Minister for Finance. The job is ours. Frankly, we could do much more with more money.

Sir, I think the Minister has totally missed my point. When I referred to supervision, I meant supervision at the time of construction of the road and not after it has been completed. More often than not, when roads in rural areas are metalled, potholes would appear everywhere one or two months later. This is the point I want the Minister to look into.

Sir, I certainly will. Of course, there is more supervision when a road is being constructed than after it has been constructed. But not all roads in the rural areas are metalled. And if big lorries go over them every day, and the rain comes, there must be pot-holes. The Member for Sembawang suggested more gotong royong. Gotong royong more recently has improved. I remember gotong royong in one constituency where, after the first week-end, everybody went home and the Public Works Department had to complete the work and it cost more. Since then, I am glad to say, matters have improved, and we have had several gotong royongs. But it means that Members must work. It is up to them to get the national servicemen and their constituents to take part. We will provide the expertise and the materials, but they must finish the job. 4.45 p.m.

Sir, I would like to ask the Minister whether he is satisfied with the general work of road-repairing or road-making done by the contractors, and whether the quality is satisfactory. In other words, can the contractor give a guarantee of the quality of his work for at least six months, or a year, failing which the contractor has to make good the defects?

Sir, it really depends on who the contractor is. Sometimes the work is done by a unit within the Department itself. The PWD goes around repairing roads too. But when new roads are being built, sometimes by a contractor and sometimes by a housing developer, there is a guarantee that the road will last for at least a year, not six months. I remember the case in Sixth Avenue. One-third of the road was built by the private developer through a contractor, and the other two-thirds by the PWD. The one-third built by the private developer was always collapsing. It is strange because one-third of the road was always full of holes and the other two-thirds were all right. So I asked for a reason, and the reply was that the PWD built two-thirds and the private developer one-third. Finally we completed that road and charged the private developer $54,000. So that was that.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister seems to express some dissatisfaction over gotong royong projects. I can tell him that in the Sembawang constituency there are about 10 roads which have been repaired on the basis of gotong royong. We have a lot of people participating in this voluntary gotong royong project. These gotong royong roads are of a much higher standard than those undertaken by private contractors. They last longer. I believe that our rural MPs also took part in this gotong royong project. As this project was carried out during the school days, students from the University of Singapore, Nanyang University and the Singapore Polytechnic also took part in this gotong royong project, although they do not live in my constituency. So I hope the Minister will encourage more gotong royong projects to save at least half the cost.

Mr Speaker, Sir, developing on the point raised by the Member for Sembawang, may I just join in the chorus on our road works and so forth?

Yes.

On the first point of road signs, I think it is evident to all of us here as road travellers that often-times we come across road signs that are inappropriately placed or exhibited where they catch the least attention of pedestrians or drivers. This is one aspect which the Ministry can pay attention to. Frequently we drive into a "No Entry" road only to discover that the sign was exhibited in a very inconspicuous corner.

Dr Ong, do you know which subhead we are on now?

Yes, Sir,I thought that since we are discussing road works -

But you are on road signs.

Thank you for pointing that out, Sir,I will come back to road works. I think it is abundantly clear that we have come across so many instances where the Public Works Department of the Ministry of National Development goes about digging up roads or doing some repairs. It seems to me important that where there are road works, the driver or the cyclist should be given ample warning of the road works ahead. Frequently we find that all of a sudden we come right on to some road works and this causes the unnecessary problem of traffic control. The other point which the Minister raised regarding the digging and re-digging of roads is well-known. The Public Works Department comes along to improve and to widen a certain road, next comes the Singapore Telephone Board to undo what the PWD has done, then PWD comes back to repair everything. Then the Public Utilities Board comes in to make some improvements. And then when the question is raised in Parliament, the Minister gives his assurance. And all the different departments go back to their work, oblivious of what the Minister has obviously assured. The point I am trying to drive at really is, could there not be better co-ordination among the various departments in this respect? Instead of having to dig the road three times, could they not plan it together and finish it at one go?

Sir, everyone is talking about roads. But I have an amendment to be moved under the subhead on PWD. May I have permission to speak now?

We are not on PWD yet, Mr Govindaswamy.

Everybody is speaking on roads, and I am also going to speak on roads.

Yes, but roads in the rural areas.

Sir, I was not referring to the constituency of the Member for Sembawang. I said "one constituency" and it was not his. But he seems to have the answer to the bad condition of rural roads. All they have to do is to get the MPs together, headed by the Member for Sembawang as Chairman, and some national servicemen, and they will improve all the roads in Sembawang and Jurong. We certainly encourage gotong royong, not only because it improves the roads, but it gets people together in the sense of community spirit. Hence, the word gotong royong itself. The Member for Kim Seng raised the same old question about road digging which I have answered before in Parliament. `The departments have not been oblivious to my comments in Parliament. In fact, there is a Roads Action Committee which meets from time to time. This Committee is headed by the Director of the Public Works Department, and its business is to co-ordinate road digging, so that everybody concerned digs at the same time. But sometimes it is not possible, and they come in a few months later. The position now is that once a road has been dug and resurfaced, no one can dig that road again without the permission of the Director of the Public Works Department. But sometimes this happens and they ask. "What happens if a water-main bursts, or an electric cable bursts?" I say, "Get permission." Unless we are strict with them, everybody thinks the road belongs to them and they dig it as and when they please. But there is this Roads Action Committee and it has done some good work, though we still have some trouble. Another nuisance, of course, is that when a road is dug and levelled again, there must obviously be a hump. Otherwise it collapses and there is a little trench, and this takes time to level up. Sometimes the fill put in by the contractors is no good. So instead of a slight depression, there is a big hole. But it is the duty of the Public Works Department to only resurface the road after it has been levelled, with a hump if you like, by the contractor doing the job.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I thank the Minister for his reply. Now I would like to move on to another matter, not about gotong royong. I would like to speak on this digging and re-digging of roads. I suppose I can offer some help. Perhaps the departments concerned can form a co-ordinating committee. But if there is already such a co-ordinating committee, how is it that it has not been fully effective? Perhaps the co-ordinating committee can draw up a time-table for the several services to be done at one digging, so that re-digging is not necessary.

Sir, in view of the Minister's explanation, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment (6) has been dealt with. The sum of $34,637,740 for Head LG ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $621,951,000 for Head LG ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

I think it would be a good idea to have a break now. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

I suspend the Sitting and shall take the Chair again at 5.30 p.m. Sitting accordingly suspended at 4.58 p.m. until 5.30 p.m. Sitting resumed at 5.30 p.m.

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

Head LH --

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head LH be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AA 1105*. (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Dr Ong Leong Boon.) Mr Speaker, Sir, it was with great pride that we were able to claim to have the best roads in Asia. That was sometime ago. Now, sad to say, we have acquired a reputation that is the reverse of what was said at that time. The state of some of the roads is deplorable and disgraceful to the tourist. Take, for instance, Victoria Street and North Bridge Road. These roads were dug up by a contractor sometime ago for some purpose, god knows what! With so much digging going on, sometimes one wonders whether they are digging for oil! Anyway the condition of the roads at present is best seen to be believed. The pot-holes have never been repaired. The patch-work type of repairs carried out is so badly done, that they do not last even a few days. Is there any supervision of a road contractor's job? Is there a time limit given to the contractor before payment is made? Are there any penalties imposed for poor workmanship? These are two examples of the condition of main roads, and there are countless others. If one drives along Upper Thomson Road, one will be bumping and bumping all along and will soon be tired out. Upper Thomson Road has been commonly called the shock absorber test road. All we see nowadays is `tax up quality down'. This is Parkinson's law in reverse. The more taxes are imposed on cars, the worse will be the roads for the motorists. In Orchard Road, opposite Lido Cinema, a beautiful pedestrian walk was constructed sometime back purposely for the Commonwealth Prime Minister's Conference. The same walk has now been demolished and made into another type of walk called a pedestrian mall. With the high cost of materials and workmanship, with inflation setting in, is this mall really necessary? Are we going into grandiose schemes at great cost, just to serve a few pedestrians, who are quite comfortable walking along the present pedestrian ways? Could not the money be used for more useful projects? We seem to acquire land at great cost for road widening schemes. We cut into the frontage of shops and houses, and what happens after that? Of late, about a quarter o a road lane is taken either for pedestrian use or tree planting. I myself do not understand what it is all about. Now in Stamford Road small flat stone walls have been put, and they are always being knocked down by cars. I do not know for what purpose these small flat stone walls have been put along the road. In Robinson Road trees have been planted on pedestrian walks. They are not only an obstruction but can also damage roads and buildings, besides littering the road with dead leaves. Bus lanes have been introduced to ease traffic congestion in the central areas of the City. Rather than help, they cause traffic congestion, stretching for miles at a time. A better system is, therefore, called for. In certain housing estates, after the Government has taken over the frontage and the surfacing has been done, the owners of the houses have been asked to pay $1,000 each. As the work carried out was simple and did not involve much material and manpower, cannot the Government lower the fees chargeable? At certain junctions, traffic lights are not functioning well. Can the Government do anything about the lights damaged in accidents which are not repaired for weeks at a time. Again some roundabouts have been removed to be replaced by traffic lights. Can the department give reasons for this kind of spending? With regard to roads, if the Singapore Telephone Board wants to lay the cables or do some other work, they will dig and put in the cables. After they have levelled up the road, the Electricity Department will come in to dig it up again to lay their own cables. After they have levelled up the road, then the Sewerage Department will come iii to dig it up again. What is all this? Why incur unnecessary expenditure? This is a very bad way of expending money.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I will come back to the topic of road signs. Earlier on I emphasised that there was a need for improvement in the erection and placing of road signs at the proper places in order to effect better observation of the road signs and so give the road users adequate notice. I have said that the "No Entry" signs are sometimes placed in rather inconspicuous corners, and frequently dual carriageways have been turned into a dangerous two separate-lane traffic where you have cars coming straight on when they should really be going in the other direction. This is particularly true with the road junction at Havelock Road and Kim Seng Road where a number of serious accidents occurred recently and to which ample publicity had been given in the press. The other point which I think deserves attention is the safety of road workers and road users. Road repairs can be seen going on all the time, and yet insufficient warning is given to road users and that road workers themselves are not given adequate protection. Here I would stress particular importance on the insistence that all road workers must wear luminous jackets. This is made compulsory for road workers in many advanced countries. In Singapore, particularly for road workers at night, I think it would be advisable to impose this regulation. It is very dangerous for road workers to work at night. They pave roads in the face of constant danger from road traffic.

Mr Speaker, Sir, earlier on I had given answers to most of the points raised by the Member for Anson. Perhaps I should confine my reply to some of the specific points which he raised but not dealt with by me earlier. As I have said earlier on, the poor condition of some of our roads is generally due to the digging up of these roads for the laying of the various services to cater for our requirements. This results in uneven road surfaces which can be properly resurfaced only after time is allowed for the soil to settle. The resurfacing of North Bridge Road has now been completed, and work on Victoria Street, which the Member for Anson referred to, is now in progress. Part of Thomson Road is being widened and improved to serve a dual carriageway. Other parts of the road have been dug up for the laying of services to serve the new housing estates in that area. Once housing estates are built, the residents need services and the roads have to be dug up. Perhaps the inconvenience to motorists using Upper Thomson Road is, in fact, unavoidable. The Member for Anson has also referred to the pedestrian mall. Just before the meeting of the Commonwealth Prime Ministers' Conference in January, 1971, work was undertaken to improve Orchard Road and to provide footpaths for pedestrians, as this is an important and busy road. At that time there were no plans to construct what the Member has referred to as the pedestrian mall. However, this concept of the mall was initiated in late 1971. It serves the dual purpose of keeping the canal along Orchard Road and Stamford Road clean and pollution free as well as providing ample space over the canal for pedestrians to walk. The planting of trees and shrubs alongside walks provides shade and greenery and follows the policy of making Singapore a garden city. But sometimes things go wrong. The Member has referred to Robinson Road. Now there is a new bus lane along Robinson Road and we should have a place for passengers or bus commuters to wait for the bus, otherwise they will all converge on to the road. So we have a little sidewalk between the shop-house in front and the bus lane. This sidewalk does not necessarily have the same width all along that road. It depends on the width of the road and what is in front or adjacent to it. In order to provide some shade along this road for people waiting for buses, pong pong trees were planted as they do not grow to great heights. Of course, with the high-rise buildings coming up, it is only during the few hours around noon that the sun shines down. If the Member is right that the trees prove to be an obstruction, they will be removed. But the trees have already been planted, and I think it would be a waste of time and money to pull them out and replant them somewhere else. I would suggest that we leave them alone and see what the future holds. The Member also complains about the $1,000 cost which each of his constituents had to pay for roads along their houses. This is the practice when we build a road. The frontagers pay according to the length of the road along their boundaries. Recently, of course, prices have gone up and the cost of materials and labour has increased. May I point out that frontagers may pay in instalments if there are difficulties in paying the full amount outright. 5.45 p.m. I believe the Member also complained about roundabouts. Roundabouts can only handle traffic up to a certain limit. If the traffic is too heavy, congestion must occur. Some of these roundabouts have been replaced by light-controlled intersections with sufficient approach lanes, which not only permit a much larger volume of traffic to flow but can be regulated to allow for pedestrian crossing. The Member for Kim Seng complained about our traffic signs, "No Entry" signs in particular, found in the wrong place or facing the wrong way and this causes accidents and confusion. There are so many signs all over Singapore. Sometimes they are put facing the right direction but turned around by some rascals. I am not saying that this is always the case, but this has happened. I would suggest to the Member that whenever he sees a sign which is not satisfactory, he brings it to the attention of my Ministry. I myself have had occasion to redirect certain signs along Havelock Road which were not facing exactly in the right direction. When there are more than four lanes or four roads, Sometimes you might even have six or seven lanes, meeting at one junction, putting up signs or lights can be difficult. Coming from one direction one might be looking at the wrong light and think one has the right of way, seeing green instead of red. This is dangerous. But wherever this occurs we do our best to redirect the traffic lights. As regards the night work which the Member referred to, I agree with him that when road workers work at night they should put on luminous uniforms. Most of them do, but not all. As for warning signs, every department that digs a road has to have warning signs telling people who is digging it, whether it is the PUB, PWD, etc. But I agree with him that sometimes these warning signs are placed too near the site where work is progressing; so that if a motorist comes along he does not have sufficient warning that work is going on. I agree that sometimes these signs should be put up, say, 100 or 200 yards away for the motorist to see before he comes to the particular obstruction, along the road.

Sir, I thank the Minister for his reply. Before the Minister gave his reply, I had a feeling that he would say those same words, that is, he would pass the buck to us and hold us responsible for pointing out the irregularly placed signs and also for pointing out a finger at some rascal for that dastardly work. I believe there are too many signs inappropriately placed and that his Ministry should hold itself responsible for making sure that these signs are placed correctly. With regard to the second point, I was asking whether his Ministry would make it compulsory for all road workers to wear luminous jackets at night. I am aware that some road workers do wear these jackets, but they form a very small number and certainly not most of the workers as mentioned by the Minister.

Sir, I am not passing the buck. All I am asking the Member is for his assistance; and I did mention this earlier - we are finally responsible. But earlier on the Member complained of the holes in the roads. We are not aware surely of all the holes around Singapore. But 65 of us can point out where these holes are. All I am asking the Members is for their assistance. But I disagree with the Member that all the signs put up in Singapore face the wrong direction. An hon. Member: Not even in Kim Seng!

Not even in Kim Seng. Otherwise there will be chaos. But there are a few cases. All I am asking the Member to do is not to turn the sign but to tell me about it. This is not a question of passing the buck. It is a question of asking the Member for his assistance and to point out where these wrongly placed signs are, and we will correct them.

(In Mandarin): Sir, trees have been planted along certain roads. For instance, in Robinson Road there is a reserved bus lane specially for the buses. And there is a sidewalk which is about five feet wide with circular holes. At first, I thought they were constructing a pedestrian walk for the safety of pedestrians which should be very good. But soon I found that trees were planted in the plots of earth that were encircled for the purpose of beautifying the place. Even at Bras Basah Road, trees have been planted along the roadside. I would like to ask the Minister how many pedestrians can appreciate these trees, when they are so busy trying to leave their offices for homes. Nobody has the pleasure or time to enjoy the scenery or the beauty of the trees. So I would like the Minister to investigate into the usefulness of the trees planted by the roadside because this would endanger the safety of the pedestrians. There is no more space for the pedestrians to walk as the trees have taken up much space and buses are running along the road. We should have proper places to plant trees. We do not plant trees in the kitchen!

Sir, I can assure the Minister that I shall point out to him all the irregularly placed road signs in my constituency and also those in his constituency. With regard to my second point, I think the Minister has not given me an answer as to whether he would make it compulsory for all road workers to wear luminous jackets at night.

Sir, I am sorry. We will certainly consider it and make it compulsory if it is desirable. At the moment, it really depends on the type of work and on which part of the road work is being done. For instance, when white or yellow lines in the middle or along the side of the road are painted in the middle of the night, obviously these workers need luminous clothes, and this is the position at present. But if the workers pack up, say, at about 6 p.m., they do not need luminous clothes. On the other hand, there might be urgent work such as the breakdown of a pipe in the middle of the road which has to be repaired at night; then I would agree with the Member that proper clothes should be worn so that the workers can be seen. I have not seen any signs in Tanglin pointing in the wrong direction, and not even in Kim Seng. But I would be grateful if the Member can do some of my work for me.

(In Mandarin): Sir, the Minister has not replied to my question.

Sir, the Member for Sembawang has raised the same point as the Member for Anson. I do not think I can take it much further. Trees have been planted on the side-walk. If they are a danger to pedestrians or cause an obstruction, I have said that we will remove them. That is the position. One must be blind to walk into a tree.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the names of Messrs J. F. Conceicao and Hwang Soo Jin-

Mr Conceicao is not here. Mr Hwang has spoken* (*See col. 668). Amendment (3), Mr. Tay.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head LH be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead DA 1107*. (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Hwang Soo Jin.) Sir, over the last 10 years or so, the Ministry of National Development has achieved outstanding results in housing which has won acclaim from countries all over the world. Although the Ministry has speeded up the work of housing, but because of the increase in our population, there are more and more applicants wanting to purchase or to rent flats, with the result that demand has outstripped supply in housing. We all know that Rome was not built in a day, and it is much less to mention the rebuilding of the central district and the task of improving the living environment of the people. This task is more arduous and of a greater magnitude because we are not able to provide enough flats or houses for the people either for purchase or for rent. Therefore, it is unavoidable that certain sections of the population have to live in the rural areas in old dilapidated attap houses made of plank and zinc. It does not mean that they do not realise the fact that dwellings in the rural areas are not hygienic and can easily catch fire. But in order to have a roof over their heads, they are forced to live in such attap or wooden houses in order to scrape a meagre living. These attap or wooden houses are old and dilapidated. They are unauthorised houses built long ago. 6.00 p.m. I do not mean to say that these attap houses should be allowed to exist. What I am trying to say is that the Building Control Division had erred in the implementation of policy in respect of demolition of these houses. We know that the Building Control Division has to carry out the work of demolition of these houses. This is understandable. What is to be questioned is the manner and way this demolition squad carried out their duty. We are not happy with the discourtesy, rudeness and the ferocity of these enforcement officers. I would like the House to note their undesirable attitude when they carry out their work. Sir, the making of laws in any country must have reference to the social custom of that country. In other words, justice must be tempered with humane feeling. If everyone is law-abiding, there will be universal peace and courts of law will not be needed. They could be moved into the museum. Human nature being what it is, there are people who are prone to commit offence. Sir, for offences of putting up unauthorised structures, even a very strict judge will be lenient to the culprits. In other words, he will temper justice with humane feeling. In demolishing an unauthorised structure, the official must all the more be lenient. Due to extenuating circumstances they were forced to build the unauthorised structures. Maybe, the family is growing, and so they have to enlarge their home. We should adopt a sympathetic attitude towards them. I fully support the principle that these unauthorised structures should be pulled down. But, Sir, I have received a lot of unusual complaints from my constituents. The demolition squad officers sent by the Building Control Division behaved as though they were gangsters. They went and demolished an unauthorised house in my constituency. Of course, I am not voicing their grievances, but I would like the Minister to understand that these civil servants are wrong in adopting a rude attitude. 6.05 p.m.

Not all the complaints are perfectly true, but I feel there must be some basis for lodging them. Sir, a person who puts up an unauthorised building knows that he is in the wrong. He can only plead with the authority. He dares not resist the authority. He is not guilty of murder, theft, robbery, or any such crime. On the other hand, we see the enforcement officers going around pulling down the houses. They go in a big group, armed with parangs and axes, and frighten the residents in the whole village and cause resentment among them. The demolition squad sometimes go to the extent of assaulting the residents. Whether or not there is any basis for the allegation, I hope it would be investigated into by the Minister. Of course, we have to uphold law and order. On the other hand, we should see to it that the enforcement officers should also abide by the law. They should not resort to assaulting the people. Sir, I hope the enforcement officers despatched by the Building Control Division could be reeducated so as to re-orientate their attitude towards residents who live in unauthorised houses.

Sir, grouses have been made in this House time and again by Members representing the rural constituencies concerning the rather tedious and time-consuming procedures involved in getting approval to effect urgent repairs and minor alterations to attap houses and similar structures. I believe some attempts have been made to simplify the procedures, but as far as I know, the delay in granting permission still exists. I have heard of recent cases involving a change of roofing from attap to corrugated iron. The applicants were asked to engage the services of an architect. Sir, this seems to me rather ridiculous and it also imposes unnecessary financial strains on these poor people. In any case, as most of our architects are more interested in big fish, perhaps there is a real difficulty in getting the services of an architect. On the 15th March, 1973, the Minister stated, and I quote from Hansard, Vol. 32, col. 883: `.., the Building Control Division will shortly be issuing a booklet on the do's and don'ts of building activity to inform the public of the procedures to be taken before any building works are carried out.' It seems to me that the Department's definition of "shortly" is one or two years. I quote again from the same paragraph, in which the Minister stated: `To provide on-the-spot service and advice to the public, sub-offices have been established at Bukit Panjang District Office (Rural West), Serangoon District Office (Rural Central) and at the former Midwives' Maternity Centre (Rural East) in Jalan Eunos.' As far as I know, this so-called on-the-spot service does not really give much service at all. When we go and talk to them, they do not seem to be able to give much guidance. This is the complaint that I have received.

Sir, perhaps I should deal with the Member for Paya Lebar first, as he quoted more serious allegations. All I want to reassure him is that we have a demolition squad whose duty is to demolish houses, not human beings. The one particular case which the Member is harping on is this. There was an incident, I think, it was on the 17th January this year, when a demolition squad comprising some 15 labourers supervised by one officer went to a house in Lorong Gambir. There was an altercation. It was alleged by the complainant that she, her husband and her niece were assaulted. These allegations have been denied by the officer and the labourers concerned. They admitted there was a scuffle. I do not propose to go into the facts here because, subsequent to the incident, a complaint was lodged at the police station. Surprisingly enough, the complainants have not gone to court. They could have taken the case by way of a private summons, but they have chosen not to do so. Instead, the Member has written to me asking for an inquiry, and this is being done. As long as the inquiry is on, I do not think I should take this matter further in Parliament if I am to be fair to the parties involved. Demolition is not a pleasant business and very few people like to work for the demolition squad because they have been assaulted many times. That is the natural reaction. If the squad moves in to demolish somebody's home, he is there to defend it, whether authorised or unauthorised. Sometimes we have the police to stand by. But people get excited and one is liable to go off the rails, as it were, if one's house is being demolished even by the Government. It is a very unpleasant matter. Strict instructions have gone out to demolition squads to be as nice as is possible. But it is not pleasant or enjoyable to demolish somebody's house. 6.15 p.m. The Member for Jalan Kayu complains about the promises I have made and never kept. There are these three centres. He himself admits that, but he says they are no good. Well, at least they have been set up, and we can take it a step further by improving conditions in these centres. The procedure for application for repairs to temporary houses is quite simple really. The applicant submits an application form obtainable from the Building Control Division, together with three copies of the sketch plan and three copies of the site plan, which is obtainable from the Planning Department at a fee of $2. No prior planning permission for the repairs need be obtained. An architect's plan for a change of roof-covering is not normally required, but is required when the proposed change involves the roof trusses of a permanent building. For example, the Member referred to the case of the roof changing of an attap house to corrugated iron. What is a corrugated roof doing on an attap building? Naturally a corrugated iron roof must have an architect's plan, in case it falls on somebody's head. This is the reason. It becomes a structure of a permanent nature. It is not just a matter of changing the roof, but what it comprises. Changing from attap to zinc or zinc to attap is all right. But the moment you have corrugated iron, that is another matter altogether.

On the last point made by the Minister, there does seem to be inconsistency between the Minister and his department. Because in one case after I had written to point out whether there was any real need to call for a plan, they agreed to waive the plan from the architect. So where do we stand? And next is, how can we help these people to get an architect? As I have said, most architects are so busy that they are only interested in the big fish; they could not care less with these people because they cannot make much out of them.

Sir, it shows that my department is flexible and we are human. Some of the Members do not think we are. It does not mean to say that all cases will be allowed. Each case really depends on its merits and on the circumstances.

I think the Hon. Minister is a very good debater. The position is "Heads you win, tails I lose", so I will not go any further.

(In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am happy with the reply given by the Minister that he has set up a committee of inquiry. I hope the results of its investigation will be made public. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Cheong Yuen Chee -

I am not moving, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head LII be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BA 3027. Sir, I remember asking about this Feasibility and Engineering Study for Central Area Expressway during the Budget debate last year. According to the Minister's reply, I believe Phase I of the Study should have been completed by now. I only wish to seek information from the Minister regarding the progress of this Study, and what are the recommendations for Phase I of the Study.

Sir, consultant firms have been invited and short-listed for the Feasibility and Engineering Study for Central Area Expressway. The successful consultant firm has yet to be selected. But the firm must be selected in consultation with the Asian Development Bank. Pending the selection of this firm, the PWD is collecting the necessary data from the various service departments. Once the firm is appointed, negotiations will be made on the financial terms of the Study, and it is anticipated that thereafter the Study can commence in a few months' time.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, in view of the Minister's reply, I beg to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head LH he reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BA 3037. Sir, again I am only seeking information from the Minister regarding the Feasibility Study on Computerised Traffic Control of the Central Area. I wonder whether he could tell the House the aims of the Study, who will be conducting it and how long will it take.

Sir, that is a very interesting question. A computerised area of traffic control is a control system in which a central computer plays a major role in controlling the flow of vehicular traffic, especially in the busy areas of the City. This system will reduce traffic congestion by the creation of a more efficient linking of signals, having regard to the traffic situation at any given time, and also by the diversion of traffic where space capacity is available on alternative routes. That, in short, is the system. The computerised area of traffic control system requires a very large capital outlay, probably several million dollars. Therefore, we need to undertake a feasibility study. A specialist consultant firm will be engaged for the study. That is all I have for the moment.

Sir,I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head LH be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BA 3038. Sir, again I only wish to seek information from the Minister regarding the special projects for which a sum of $5 million has been allocated. Can the Minister inform the House of the nature of this project, as a large amount of money is involved?

Sir, a lot has been said from both sides of this House about our road transport system, our buses, our taxis, methods to improve the transport system and the bus system. The provision under this item is for road transport improvement schemes for which no provision has been made elsewhere in the Development Estimates. Such schemes will arise from recommendations of the Road Transport Action Committee which the Minister for Communications has had occasion to refer to during the course of this debate. Members may remember him mentioning the construction of fringe area car parks and the purchase of material and better equipment for traffic control. If I may just take one item, the fringe area car parks. This means the construction of several car parks on the outskirts of the City, where owners of cars can park their cars, jump into a bus or mini-bus and come to town, and also go back from work in the evening, take their cars and go off. This means that no cars can come into town, except with a special licence, and that we must build car parks on the outskirts, not just half a dozen but probably 15 or 16 car parks. Very few are already in existence. For instance, the car park at the National Stadium is ideal for the purpose. But elsewhere we may have to convert fields into car parks such as the one at St. George's Road, along Serangoon Road, or the golf course near Tanglin Circus which will, of course, upset our golfers. Turning a green area into a car park, a hard surface, means money, and this is part of the provision which has not been budgeted for elsewhere. I do not think I need bother the Member with further details, as the Minister for Communications has already said that before we implement the scheme, public suggestions and recommendations will be invited. We are not rushing into the scheme. We are being very careful about it because it is quite, perhaps I can call it, a drastic measure. It will only be implemented after very, very careful consideration, and after the views of the public have been asked for and given.

Sir, I would like to thank the Minister for the explanation given, and beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $42,168,000 for Head LH ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $32,154,900 for Head LH ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

Order. A business motion. Thereupon Mr Deputy Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

6.30 p.m.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, after several hours of debate, I need your consent, and the general assent of Members, to move that the adjournment be taken at 7 p.m. today.

I give my consent. Do I have the general assent of Members for the motion to be moved by the Minister, and the Question thereon proposed? Hon. Members indicated assent. Resolved, "That, notwithstanding the Standing Orders, the House do rise at 7.00 p.m. today." -[Mr E. W. Barker].

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

Head LI -

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head LI be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AA 1107. Sir, some two years ago when the Ministry of Health was responsible for the Hawkers Department, it requested the Planning Department to requisition building developers, especially in the Central Business District, to provide for sufficient canteen facilities in large office buildings. This is a right move. Sir, you may be aware that in the Shenton Way area and in the other parts of the Central Business District, a number of mammoth buildings are springing up. During the lunch break thousands of office workers can be seen hunting for meals within their means, as the canteens required by the Planning Department are not yet operating in these large high-rise office blocks. There are, of course, in these office blocks posh restaurants which begin operation as soon as possible. But office workers cannot afford to patronise these restaurants. Sir, is the Planning Department's requirements for canteen space for workers in high-rise office buildings adhered to by the developers? If they are, then as soon as even partial occupation takes place, the canteen facilities must be made available. If the Planning Department's requirement is not adhered to, why not? Sir, in the Shenton Way area many of these buildings are partially occupied, and if the planned facilities for reasonably priced food establishments are not put into operation soon, then it is going to create another social problem.

Sir, as far as we are aware, all restaurants now in operation in commercial office buildings were approved as restaurants, and I shall be grateful if the Member can let me know the specific cases where approved canteens have been turned into restaurants. The canteens or restaurants in large buildings are operated on a commercial basis. Sometimes the ownership or management of the restaurant or canteen changes hands several times because business is not as good as expected. It is difficult for us to compel the developers or owners of buildings to operate or continue to operate and maintain a canteen if there is not enough business for the canteen, resulting in heavy financial losses.

Sir, I did not say that any canteen has been turned into a restaurant. What I said was that there is a need for canteens in many of these buildings. If he is not careful, then with so many office blocks around Shenton Way, the Minister's own National Development building will very soon be invaded by office workers from Shenton Way, and his own staff will have no place to eat in.

Sir, that is because the food in the Ministry's canteen is really good. We do not want to keep other workers out.

Sir, before I withdraw, I think this is a serious problem.

On a point of elucidation. Sir. At the present moment, food in the restaurants costs more than five times what one has to pay for in the SILO canteen.

Sir, that is agreed. But it does not mean that we are just encouraging restaurants at the expense of canteens. If a large firm in a large building desires to put up a canteen for its workers, it will naturally have our blessing. In fact, we are encouraging firms to do so. This is the point which the Member for Telok Blangah wants me to answer. I agree with him entirely that more canteens should be provided, but we cannot force people to provide canteens. I think the duty of an employer is to provide a canteen for his workers. Perhaps the Member can persuade the employers through his trade unions to do so.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $2,002,100 for Head 1.1 ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. Head U -

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head U be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AA 1107. Sir, we have introduced parks to serve as lungs for the city, but have we considered our children? What is the use of a park if children cannot make use of them? The park in Seletar Reservoir has excellent facilities for children. Most parks for instance, the one opposite the Istana, the MacRitchie Reservoir, the Peirce Reservoir, the park at Newton, are completely devoid of facilities for children. Where can the children go? We must attract our children to healthy places, like parks, by providing facilities for them to play, rather than discourage them, by planting too many bushes everywhere. Further, the Housing and Development Board should ensure that every available vacant ground in the housing estates be made use for the children's benefit. It is an ancient belief - give the children a place to play, and you end up with healthy and robust citizens. An idle mind in an idle body is a devil's workshop. Housing estates with no playgrounds can only be an ideal breeding ground for drug addicts. In some parks stone benches have been provided. What use are these if they have no back rests and arm rests? Must the people suffer even while trying to relax? Planting trees along the road is no doubt good, but I wonder if any effort is being made to check their growth. Some trees are allowed to grow wild along roadsides and buses travelling by the side brush against them. This is a source of danger to passengers travelling in the buses. I quote Napier Road! Holland Road as an example. Further, some trees are so big that their branches obstruct the street lights. This becomes a source of danger to pedestrians and motorised traffic along the road.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Member for Anson was thinking of his grandchildren! But let me assure him that the Parks and Recreation Division of the PWD is aware of the need to provide amenities for children in our public parks and other open spaces. There are plans to develop playgrounds at the Central Park and Kampung Java Park, and other recreational activities at the East Coast Park to attract not only children but grandfathers like the Member for Anson. However, it is not always possible to construct a playground, specially set aside for children, in every park or open space as this depends on the site, space, location, surrounding and environment. For instance, the Orchard Park opposite the Istana is too small an area to contain a children's playground. The design of this park is primarily aesthetic as well as functional for the benefit and convenience of office workers, shoppers and others, rather than children, who wish to take a rest from their daily activities. The Housing and Development Board has also provided very extensive sporting and recreational activities in its housing estates. I have said before that when the Housing Board first built flats the emphasis was on housing. But today the picture has changed. We have become more affluent and demands have changed. Before anyone moves into a Housing Board flat, he wants to know which school his children are going to, where they are going to play or swim, or what have you. In almost every neighbourhood today there are properly equipped children's playground, and badminton, basketball and sepak raga courts. In Queenstown a sports complex costing $5 million was built and, in fact, another swimming pool complex costing more than $3 million is now under construction, in addition to the pool which has already been built. In Toa Payoh more than $10 million had been spent on the development of a park, a swimming pool complex and a running track. Another swimming complex costing more than $3 million is now under construction off Mountbatten Road to serve the residents of Mountbatten, Tanjong Rhu and Kallang. 6.45 p.m. Benches are generally provided with back rests at all public places. In a few parks like those in Bras Basah and Kampung Java, stone benches have been provided. I am told that this is a variation to blend with the landscape design. I am inclined to believe that stone benches were built in order that they could last. Wooden benches do not last as they are easily broken. Anyway, benches with back rests are being constructed in the Central Park and Labrador Park. Many people, of course, visit the parks for a stroll and relaxation for a short duration and do not really sit there for too long. But there are others who sleep on the benches. They are not bothered with the park. They want a place to rest for several hours. This is what we want to discourage. If someone sleeps on a bench for several hours, he is depriving someone else of a seat. He is taking three or four places. Hence, some benches have been built with an obstruction or hump jutting out in the middle so that if a person sleeps on it, he is going to have a crooked back. I think the Member will agree that the primary purpose of planting trees on the roadside and in other open spaces is to ensure their proper and healthy growth. At the same time, trees require regular pruning and inspection, especially those which are likely to cause obstruction to traffic or street lights. From time to time, a tree poses a hazard to life or property. But when we are aware of this, these trees are pruned, removed or replaced with smaller ones.

Sir, the more we hear and see about the wonderful things being done, such as recreational facilities being provided for the new towns, the more those of us from the rural areas feel that we are being totally neglected. We feel very jealous. While those in urban areas are asking for benches, parks or swimming pools, we from the rural areas have to come here year after year begging for a little bit more money to build roads. We do not even have metalled roads. The contrast is there I am afraid. This is one aspect we should not really overlook at all because the population in the rural areas is still quite large. And I cannot see why all the money is going into the satellite and new towns, when in the meantime we are not even getting enough to build roads.

Sir, may I first reply to the Member for Jalan Kayu? The fault cannot really be placed on anybody. This is part of the history of Singapore. When this town first came up, it was the central area that was developed. Hence the buildings, and the roads. And slowly development has spread from the central area. Some of the housing estates which the Member referred to were, in fact, rural areas before. Toa Payoh was one big squattered area. But now Toa Payoh has been developed and people are living there quite happily. We do our best to provide these amenities like parks, benches and schools. I do not think the rural areas have been completely left out. Under the Urban and Rural Services, most of the money goes to the rural areas because much more is needed there, and not much has to he done in the urban areas because the urban areas have already been developed. We do our best to spread around the affluence that we have.

I think the Member for Jalan Kayu is struggling against l1istory. This is almost as old as the Bible. The Bible says "To the rich it shall be given. From the poor it shall be taken away." The Chinese equivalent is Tze yu chin shang tien huah nah yu shyer chung sung tang.

Sir, on the point made by the Minister concerning the development of new towns, he said that Toa Payoh used to be a rural area. On the other hand, there are certain rural areas which are resettlement areas, e.g., areas in the Deputy Speaker's constituency. I think the resettlement areas are going to be permanent rural areas. For such permanent rural areas, surely we should do something such as providing some recreational facilities since they are not going to be bulldozed away within the next one or two years. If such resettlement areas are to be designated on a fairly permanent basis as agricultural areas, then I think we ought to give them a bit more recreational facilities. This is my point.

Sir, we are doing our best to give the rural areas as much as we can. It does not mean to say that Jalan Kayu is going to remain rural forever. To give him an instance, the Housing Board is now building in Woodlands. Why not Jalan Kayu? Why not Lim Chu Kang? The day will come. In other words, may I say that the rural areas will not be permanently rural.

(In Mandarin): Sir, just now the Minister replied to the Member for Anson on the planting of trees by the roadside which entails the employment of workers to look after the trees. Since the Government has to spend so much money on the workers to look after trees and shrubs, I would like to ask the Minister whether he would consider using the money to plant fruit trees instead so that we can enjoy the additional benefit of an income from the fruits. At the same time this income to our country will reduce the expenditure on foreign supplies of fruits. I hope the Minister would consider this suggestion.

Sir, I am just wondering whether the Minister is aware that most of the open spaces at Toa Payoh New Town are, in fact, badly water-logged due to very poor sub-soil drainage. Most of these open spaces remain soggy for days after a rainfall. This really defeats the purpose of providing open spaces. The people cannot even run about on a proper turfed area. I was just wondering whether the Minister would look into this because I have spoken to the Housing Board officer many times and I have written in too. So far nothing has been done, and I believe the condition has remained the same for many years. I hope some action could be taken soon.

Sir, may I deal with the Member for Paya Lebar first? The planting of fruit trees on roads may eventually be implemented. But as a first step, fruit trees are being planted in enclosed open spaces, school grounds, some community centres and mainly in MINDEF camps, which means one cannot steal the fruits. The Parks and Recreation Division has also plans to set up a fruit orchard on an 8-acre site on reclaimed land at the East Coast Park where various types of popular local fruit trees will be grown. To the Member for Kim Keat, yes, I am aware of the water-logged condition of some parks at Toa Payoh. In fact, when I visited the Games Village during the SEAP Games or around that period, I was surprised to find that after perhaps an hour or two of rain some of the open spaces were flooded and it took some time before the water could seep through. I have already asked the Housing Board to look into it, and I will chase them again on the matter.

Sir, nobody wants to go to the Kampung Java Park because previously it was a cemetery. We have spent so much money on the Park but nobody goes there because they are afraid of devils. The Minister should find out why people do not go to the Kampung Java Park.

Sir, perhaps our people are superstitious and are reluctant to go to a park which was previously a graveyard. But then people forget. Some people are occupying Housing Board flats which are sited on previous cemeteries. The park itself is in an area which is not heavily populated and, moreover, Farrer Park is just near by. The Farrer Park field, I am glad to say, is packed everyday.

With the Minister's explanation, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Tay Boon Too -

Mr Tay, amendment (2).

I am not moving, Sir. The sum of $5,566,080 for Head LJ ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $5,598,900 for Head LJ ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Pursuant to a resolution of the House, Mr Deputy Speaker thereupon left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Main and Development Estimates of Expenditure for the financial year 1st April, 1974 to 31st March, 1975, and ask leave to sit again on Monday, 25th March, 1974.

So be it.

Resolved, "That Parliament do now adjourn." -[Mr E. W. Barker]. Adjourned accordingly at Seven o'clock p.m.

asked the Minister for Education if he will give details of the school building programme and the locations of the 54 new schools; and if he will consider expanding the facilities of Jalan Kayu Primary School and the Yio Chu Kang Secondary School in view of the growing population in the neighbourhoods of those Schools.

The new school building programme of the Ministry of Education provides for 28 primary schools and 26 secondary schools to he built in the course of the next few years. This is additional to 8 primary and 4 secondary schools which are scheduled to be completed in 1974 and 1975. The locations of these schools are as follows: -