Hansard, 1975-03-21

Order read for resumed consideration in Committee of Supply [4th Allotted Day].

Head R -

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head R be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 1004*. * The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy. Sir, under this subhead I wish to call for a re-statement of the policy on non-citizen female work permit holders wanting to marry Singapore citizens or, to be fair to the opposite sex, the other way round, Singapore citizens wanting to marry female non-citizen work permit holders, in making a re-statement of this policy, I hope the Minister can make special reference to those female non-citizens who are in the family way and seeking licence to marry. I realise that this policy has been stated before, but it has been some time since and there are a number of queries along these lines arising in the various constituencies. A re-statement of the policy will be beneficial.

Mr Speaker, Sir, last year, I mentioned that the National Stadium was as good as a `white elephant'. But surprisingly it has made a tremendous improvement. Football has been responsible for attracting the big crowds. At this particular juncture I should mention that it is football alone that has brought in the crowd to fill the stadium, sometimes to full capacity. For this, I must compliment the Football Association of Singapore. The officials and coaches have done a very good job. The Singapore team has played great football against tremendous odds. But let me ask, is soccer the only game in Singapore? What is the Singapore Sports Council doing to promote the other sports? Surely they are not resting on the laurels they have attained through football alone in Singapore. To make matters worse, the SSC is trying to promote inter-constituency sports without proper liaison with the community centres. As a result, there is an overlapping of activities. Something is wrong somewhere. This overlapping of activities will cause further confusion. The SSC was granted a loan of $1,600,000, and I presume it will still continue to receive aid from Toto. What is being done to promote sports with these funds? It is high time the SSC became more realistic and help to promote the other sports. Singaporeans are keen sportsmen and sportswomen. The SSC can become a very useful organisation to promote sports in Singapore. Unfortunately, it appears that it is not doing a very good job in promoting sports in Singapore. Let me come back to the National Stadium. Although the stadium has become "alive", the grounds around the stadium require some attention. Sir, not only is the lighting very poor, but many places in the grounds are very uneven. There are insufficient footpaths, and even then these are criss-crossed with so many drains of various sizes that they become a hazard and accidents are likely to occur. In fact, many accidents have occurred when people cross these drains. When a large crowd moves, people are not aware of obstacles in their path. Even the doctors in the hospitals are aware that accidents occurring on the grounds around the National Stadium are very common. There was a very recent case in which a person, after watching a football game, had an accident and dislocated his arm. It was not easy to summon an ambulance. Even the police who were on duty controlling the traffic did not have a walkie talkie to summon an ambulance. Fortunately, this person was with his manager who later drove him to the hospital. Such is the state of affairs at the stadium. Something must be done to remedy this situation. The Minister may reply that this matter does not come under his jurisdiction. But I would suggest to him that he should liaise with the Minister for the Environment to cover up these dangerous drains and to install adequate lighting outside the stadium. Sir, some of the security officials of the National Stadium should undergo a course on human relations so that they can be polite and helpful to the people who go to the National Stadium. I have received complaints of rudeness and discourtesy on the part of some officials towards members of the public. Furthermore, those ticket collectors at the gate do not issue counterfoils. As a result, many people enter the stadium without tickets, particularly during interesting matches, and there are no means of detecting them, because a counterfoil has not been given to a person who has bought a ticket. May I ask how do these people get into the stadium without tickets? In any major sports game at the National Stadium the crowds go there early, sometimes two or three hours before the game starts. Surely the Singapore Sports Council can think of something to entertain the crowd, perhaps a display of bands, some track events or some minor games to entertain the crowd. Sir, last year I mentioned that the grounds of the National Stadium were like a fish pond. And this year I noticed that there is a signboard outside the Stadium at the east side saying "No fishing or swimming allowed". I presume someone had been found fishing or swimming there. I also notice that the Stadium authorities used a primitive method of drain-fling water from the field. To quote an instance, during the football game between Singapore and China, where more than 50,000 spectators were present, the authorities used towels and blankets to drain off water before a very large crowd. I would also like to know why there were only 40 spectators as against 65 officials during the finals of the Inter-constituency Badminton Tournament at the Badminton hail last year. I hope the Singapore Sports Council could generate more interest in sports instead of providing only service. The Farrer Park field is used practically everyday for football games. Many of our soccer stars were discovered from games played at this field. Unfortunately, the ground at this place is badly maintained. Even with a light rain, the ground becomes sodden with pools of water here and there, thereby spoiling the games played there. The field is situated in an ideal place, but unfortunately the maintenance is poor. Toto could help here to remedy the condition.

Mr Speaker, Sir, may `I first reply to the Member for Serangoon Gardens. There is a restriction in respect of non-citizens holding work permits :marrying Singapore citizens: This is not found in- our marriage policy but in the work permit policy. This work permit policy came into effect on 1st July. 1973. Under this policy work permit holders must first obtain the approval of the Commissioner for Employment before contracting marriage with Singapore citizens. A condition is stipulated in all work permits that a work permit is automatically forfeited if the holder, having less than five years' continuous employment in Singapore, marries a Singapore citizen without the prior approval of the Commissioner for Employment This provision cannot be evaded by the work permit holder .giving up the work permit and then contracting marriage with a Singapore citizen in another country. Thus, a non-citizen female work permit holder who wishes to marry, a Singapore citizen will have to obtain the prior approval of the Commissioner for Employment. Where one of the parties to such a marriage is below the age of 18 years, then a special licence must be obtained as required under the Women's Charter. For this, the same criteria apply to all applicants irrespective of whether they are work permit holders or not. We normally consider whether the general welfare of the girl will be enhanced by the marriage. We also consider the maturity of the couples and their financial position. Applications for special licences are normally rejected if the couples show no genuine desire for marriage or are pressurised by parents, guardians or relatives to marry. We will also reject the applications for special marriage licences if one or both parties to a marriage knowingly flout our laws. Pregnancy of the girl is one of the considerations, but certainly not the overriding consideration for the granting of special licences, though we normally expedite such cases. The Member for Serangoon Gardens can rest assured that my Ministry takes a sympathetic view of cases of genuine hardship, either due to pregnancy or to family circumstances, and in many instances the Social Welfare Department goes out of the way to provide assistance to couples who are in difficulty. 2.45 p.m. Sir, the Member for Anson made criticisms on the National Stadium. I have this to say. The Singapore Sports Council is not, promoting only football. It has given it proper emphasis as it is only football that will draw crowds to the National Stadium. No other sport can pack the National Stadium. This also helps the SSC to earn revenue, besides maximising the usage of the National Stadium. The SSC has assisted in the promotion of a number of other sports by way of free usage of facilities for training, organisation-, of courses for coaches and officials, training schemes and instructional lessons. To name a few, they arc basketball, sepak takraw, swimming, waterpolo, netball, badminton, lawn tennis, and athletics. Inter-constituency sports are being promoted by the SSC while intra constituency games (between community centres) are, at present, being mainly organised by the People's Association. There is no overlapping or confusion, as there is very close coordination and cooperation between the SSC and the People's Association. The preparation of the Inter-Constituency Tournament Calendar is made available to the People's Association which is also represented in the organisation of every inter-constituency sports competition. The loan of $1.6 million which the SSC received from Government is being utilised for the following projects: (a) to upgrade sports facilities with a view to maximising usage; (b) to landscape and develop certain areas at the National Stadium Complex; (c) to settle the fees due to Phase 11 Consultants; and (d) to pay to Government its share of renovation and construction of the car parks at the National Stadium Complex for the Park and Ride Scheme. The SSC has the responsibility of upgrading existing facilities and developing new facilities. For all such capital expenditure, loans and not grants are approved by Treasury. The revenue from Toto does not go directly to the SSC. The Government, however, after examining the budget of the SSC and offsetting it against anticipated revenue, makes up the deficit with a direct grant which includes a donation from Toto. Situated between the National Stadium and Nicoll Highway is a parcel of land which is undulating in places. This will be developed by the Parks and Recreation Division of the PWD into a park complete with lighting and footpaths. The SSC will develop, in conjunction with the Parks and Recreation Division, the entire area including the Sports Garden at the East. Entrance of the National Stadium into a recreational area. Also included will be an ornamental pond and a proposed food centre. The SSC will look into the question of lighting up the area referred to, in conjunction with the Parks and Recreation Division, when the area has been developed into a park. The people who fall into drains are those who have tried to take short-cuts and who are careless. Quite a number of them have even damaged plants and torn down chain-link fences in order to take short-cuts across the area. There are sufficient open spaces and footpaths for people to walk. The tiny drains within the Stadium grounds do not pose a danger. In any case, the SSC will look into this problem more closely and, if there are drains which need to be covered, appropriate action will be taken. The security guards as well as the staff of the SSC have always been told to be polite and courteous when dealing with members of the public. They will be reminded again of the importance of public relations. The SSC always welcome complaints of discourtesy from members of the public and will examine these complaints impartially. For football matches where admission charges are' levied at the National Stadium, entry is either by tickets or by turnstiles for which no tickets are issued. When a capacity crowd is expected, pre-game sales of tickets are carried out. For all tickets sold, counter-foils are issued. Band music and performances have been and will continue to be provided to entertain the spectators. The organisation of additional activities to entertain the crowd will be looked into by the SSC. The Stadium gates open three hours before each game. Usually, the more enthusiastic spectators may come in about two hours earlier before the scheduled time of play, and their purpose is to secure the best seats for the game. The field at Farrer Park has no underground drainage. It is also subjected to constant flooding as it is lower than the roads surrounding it. Every time the Farrer Park field is flooded, the top soil is washed away and, moreover, the field is heavily used every day. All this accounts for its poor condition. The cost of raising the level of the field and the provision of an underground subsoil drainage is prohibitive. So I am afraid the field has to be left as it is for the time being. The Member also referred to the signboard outside the Stadium-"No fishing or swimming is allowed". He was not aware that he was, in fact, looking at an ornamental pond in its embryonic stage of development. This has been in-eluded as one of the development projects for the new financial year. The Ministry of the Environment and the PWD are now finalising plans for the development of this pond to blend with an aesthetic landscaped area. In order to prevent mosquito breeding in this pond, fishes are reared there, and the signboard is to ensure that the fishes can be left in peace. The Member further referred to the football match against China when it was necessary to drain off water before the commencement of the match. Pumps cannot be used when there is no more than 1½ inches of water on the ground. The Sports Council only use pumps when the water level is higher, at about 4½ inches. The officials should, in fact, be commended for their keenness and initiative in trying to improve the condition of the ground before the match. The finals of the inter-constituency badminton tournament last year was held at the SBA Hall and not at the Gay World Badminton Stadium. Obviously, the Member for Anson was not there. This tournament was organised by the Singapore Badminton Association and not the SSC. Admittedly, at this tournament there were not many spectators, but there were definitely more than 40 spectators present. Badminton nowadays appears to have lost its glamour because even at national championships organised by the SBA, spectator support has been disappointing. For the tournament in question, more than 6,000 invitation cards had been issued to each constituency to encourage them to witness the finals and to give support to the tournament. The finalists were given extra invitation cards as it was expected that they would bring in their supporters to cheer them on. It would have been quite easy to fill the SBA Hall with "conscripted" spectators, but this is the wrong thing to do. It is better to have fewer genuine and interested spectators than to have unwilling and disinterested spectators. The solution to this problem lies in reviving badminton as a sport for the masses. A long-term plan will have to be worked out by the SBA with the assistance of the Singapore Sports Council.

Sir, the Minister for Social Affairs said that I was not present at the finals of the inter-constituency badminton tournament. It is not possible for me to be present at every sports event to see what is happening. It is only when I receive a complaint that I bring up the matter in this House. This is the proper place for me to bring up these matters. If the Minister wants me to be present at every sports event to see what is happening, then I would not have time for other work.

Sir, I agree with the Member. I thought that, since he has made this complaint, he could have been there. It is just a misunderstanding and I apologise.

Sir, I accept the Minister's apology.

Sir, in view of the explanation, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to allocated for Head R be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead ACA 1111*. (*The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs Cheong Yuen Chee and Ho Kah Leong). It is believed that the Registry of Cooperative Societies is being reorganised into the Cooperative Development Department. This is indeed a good move. Can the Minister elaborate on the functions of this new proposed Cooperative Development Department? Sir, recently two International Labour Organisation experts have made recommendations to strengthen the cooperative movement in Singapore. May I know what are the recommendations they have made, and how would they affect the state of our present societies? I wonder whether non-citizens are allowed to hold office in these recommendations. I would also like to know how many societies are in existence at the moment, and how many are really active. In the past, there were proposals by some societies to engage in multi-purpose cooperative societies in order to fight inflation. How far has this programme been successful, and how many societies have been converted into multi-purpose cooperative societies?

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Ministry of Social Affairs, I must say, was quite aware of the shortcomings of the Registry of Cooperative Societies. It is to the credit of the Ministry that an effort was made to rectify this deficiency. What the Ministry did was to ask for guidance and consultation in the form of two International Labour Organisation experts. With the wealth of their combined experience and expertise, the two ILO experts made some rather drastic recommendations on the reorganisation of the Registry of Cooperative Societies itself and on the reorganisation of the cooperative movement in Singapore. One of these recommendations is the proposal to form an Apex Council to supervise and regulate the functions of the various cooperative societies in Singapore. But what has given me cause for concern is the announcement by the Ministry of the total acceptance of the recommendations of the two ILO experts who, I must acknowledge, have spent several months in Singapore before drawing up their comprehensive recommendations. I am not sure that it is desirable for the Ministry to accept every single bit of the recommendations of the ILO experts. For one thing, I regret to say that the staff of the Registry of Cooperative Societies in the Ministry, due to the rather high turnover of staff in that particular department, cannot be said to possess in-depth knowledge of cooperative society affairs in the Republic as to be in a position to make critical comment in relation to such recommendations. For another thing, the concept and practice of cooperative societies in other parts of the world may not be introduced into Singapore without first undergoing some form of suitable adjustment. 3.00 p.m. As the Members of this House may be aware, the trade union movement in Singapore, which is comparable as a social institution to the cooperative movement in Singapore, has prided itself on its refusal to accept unquestioningly the concept and practice of trade unionism as developed in other parts of the world, particularly in the industrialised countries of the West. The trade unions in Singapore believe that they must develop their own mode and style of operation in harmony with the socio-economic circumstances prevailing in Singapore. It is also a belief, if I may say so, which the Government has shared and supported. Now, the same consideration should also apply to the development of the cooperative movement in the Republic. It is true that the concept and the practice of cooperative societies in other parts of the world are mostly valid in the Republic. To that extent, the recommendations of the ILO experts may be accepted and translated into future reenactment of the Cooperative Societies Act, so as to improve the quality of the cooperative movement in the Republic. But at the same time certain aspects of cooperative affairs in Singapore did not seem to have been considered. For instance, the membership of a cooperative society is presently confined to natural persons or other cooperative societies. If a trade union desires to participate in a cooperative society the permission of the Minister has to be obtained and published by notification in the Government Gazette. Sir, I am of the view that restrictive participation of a trade union in the affairs of a cooperative society is neither necessary nor practical. For one thing, it has been forgotten that cooperative societies in other parts of the world first developed in the form of producers' cooperatives, whose members are small farmers or small businessmen. Such members usually have considerable surplus funds at their individual disposal. The cooperative societies in Singapore have been, until recently, mainly consumer cooperatives whose members are usually workers with hardly any surplus funds at their disposal. It is not surprising that, prior to the participation of the NTUC and other institutions in the cooperative movement, the cooperative societies in Singapore usually take the form of thrift and loan societies with more emphasis on loans than on savings. The trade unions in Singapore, therefore, can assist in the further development of the cooperative movement in the Republic. The trade unions, by reason of the fact that they are precluded from giving loans to members, have been able to build up surplus funds which can be invested in the cooperative movement. It is desirable that a trade union should be allowed to participate in the affairs of cooperative societies without having to seek the permission , of the Minister each time it wishes to do so. The concept of a rigid and strict separation between cooperative movement and trade union movement should be discarded as being impractical. If the Ministry is worried that the unrestrictive participation by a trade union in the affairs of a cooperative society may lead to abuse, it should be noted that the membership, the shareholding and the control of a cooperative society are not synonymous. The control of a cooperative society can be strictly supervised and regulated by the Registry of Cooperative Societies without in any way restricting the right of a trade union to participate in the affairs of the cooperative societies. I may also state that the Budget estimates for the Registry of Cooperative Societies for 11975 does not seem to indicate any drastic change in the staffing position. With the range of business conducted by the cooperative societies becoming more complex and esoteric, such as housing, supermarkets, transport, insurance and possibly banking, it may be necessary to beef up the Registry with more qualified and competent staff not only to supervise but also to advise the management of the various cooperative societies in Singapore.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like first to congratulate the Minister for converting his Registry of Cooperative Societies into the Cooperative Development Department with a view to coordinating and expanding the cooperative movement in Singapore. This is commendable. However, I must remind the Minister not to forget another section of our population which also needs the help of his Ministry to form cooperative societies. This section is none other than the farming community. In the past the farmers tried to form all sorts of cooperative societies, but most of these societies ceased to function after a few years, due mainly to poor management. Now that the Ministry has established the Cooperative Development Department, can this Department pay special attention to help our farmers to organise a Farmers' Multi-purpose Cooperative Society, with emphasis on production and the marketing side? If this cooperative society is formed, I believe that not only the farmers themselves will benefit but the consumers as a whole will also benefit. The reason is obvious. If the farm produce can be passed on from the farmers direct to' the consumers, without having to go through the middlemen, prices will be greatly reduced. So it `is in the interest of both the farmer and the consumer, if an effective Farmers' Multipurpose Cooperative Society is formed. In this respect I would urge the Minister to give serious thought to this matter.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank the various hon. Members who endorse the idea of reorganising the Registry of Cooperative Societies into a Cooperative Development Department. The present Registry of Cooperative Societies, transferred to my Ministry from the Primary Production Department, is only equipped to handle routine administrative work such as inspection and audit of accounts of societies, enquiries, arbitration, liquidation and the registration and de-registration of societies. The new Cooperative Development Department will be the Government machinery to undertake promotional and educational work in the cooperative field. The cooperative movement had been in the doldrums for many years. Only in recent years, there has been a spurt in the growth of the movement with the setting up of the various NTUC cooperatives and the development of consumer cooperatives and multi-purpose cooperatives. In the context of the changing socio-economic conditions in Singapore, cooperative societies, rightly conceived and efficiently managed, can play an important part in improving the economic and social, positions of persons of limited resources and opportunities. We have now 80 registered cooperative societies with a total membership of 74,000. Seven of these societies are inactive Regarding multi-purpose societies, there are only two, but there are 11 other societies which are providing auxiliary consumer services to their members in addition to their normal activities. These societies, in addition to the consumer' activities of the NTUC cooperative supermarkets and consumer clubs, have helped in no small measure in combating inflation in Singapore. The Members for Anson and Toa Payoh will recall that I mentioned to the House during the last Budget debate that my Ministry would seek the services of experts to strengthen the cooperative movement and to re-draft the cooperative legislation. Since then, my Ministry has appointed an ad hoc committee to study the cooperative movement and to develop a Framework for cooperative development in Singapore. The ad hoc committee was assisted by two experts, Dr J, von Muralt, ILO Cooperative Technical Officer, ,and Professor Hans H. Munkner, 1LO expert on cooperative legislation. Dr Muralt recommended the reorganisation of the Registry of Cooperative Societies into a Cooperative Development Department and the setting up of a cooperative apex organisation. He also recommended the diversification of cooperative activities and the establishment of a Cooperative Education Fund, the setting up of a Cooperative Training Institute and a programme of Cooperative Education and Training. Similar recommendations are also made by Professor Munkner who made other recommendations, including the complete revision of the Cooperative Societies Act, the creation of a central audit system, the setting up of a Cooperative Training Centre and a new system of provisional registration of societies. Both experts have worked closely with leaders of the cooperative movement and NTUC. Based ,on the Framework for Co, operative development, the Ministry has worked, out the requirements to, be incorporated into the new cooperative legislation. At present, Professor Munkner together with legal officers of the Attorney-General's Chambers are preparing the new Cooperative Societies Bill. It is expected that the draft Bill will be finalised in the middle of this year. The new cooperative legislation will provide a sound legal framework for the development of cooperative societies in Singapore. It will encourage the consolidation and diversification of cooperative activities and the establishment of an integrated .system of primary societies, secondary societies, and an apex organisation. ` The fundamental change in the new Act is to ensure that the movement will grow by giving emphasis to cooperative development. This is done in two ways. Firstly, the new Cooperative Develop, ment Department will help to monitor the growth of the movement and foster the development of cooperative societies by providing guidance and advice as well as training for cooperative officials in cooperative subjects such as management of cooperative societies, marketing, financial administration, and so on. The Department will have trained staff to undertake this work. Secondly, an apex organisation will be formed to provide the leadership to the movement so as to encourage cooperative societies to work closely with one another to seek improvements through the pooling of ideas, resources and manpower. The new Act will also, among other things, provide for the establishment of a Central Cooperative Fund to finance centralised services for the benefit of all cooperatives in Singapore. The Member for Anson wanted to know whether non-citizens could be allowed to hold office. It is the intention that non-citizens should be debarred from serving in the management committees of cooperative societies unless the prior approval of the Minister is obtained. In reply to the Member for Jurong, the formation of a farmers' cooperative is not entirely a new idea. In fact, when cooperative societies were under the Primary Production Department, there were moves to organise farmers on a cooperative basis. It was found that there were inherent difficulties in doing so due to lack of interest among members, poor financial position, weak leadership and the resettlement of farmers as a result of rapid urbanisation. The Primary Production Department, in fact, has been giving direct assistance to the farmers instead of encouraging the development of farmers' cooperatives for which management expertise is difficult to develop. Past experiences have shown that farmers' cooperatives do not fare well. Since 1960, nine societies have been de-registered and two have been dormant for some time. So far, agricultural cooperatives have not been very successful. Recently, however, the Teachers' Multi-purpose Co, operative Society has sponsored the formation of a new Livestock and Agricultural Farming Cooperative Society, which may be the beginning of a new period of modern agricultural cooperation in Singapore. However, I would assure the Member for Jurong that should there be a need for farmers to form cooperatives in the future, the new Cooperative Development Department would be most happy and willing to look into the feasibility of forming farmers' cooperatives in consultation with the Primary Production Department and the Farmers' Association. The Department will provide all the necessary assistance and guidance to farmers for such purposes.

Sir, in view of the Minister's explanation, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. 3.15 p.m.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head R be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BCA 1111. Sir, I wish to congratulate the Minister for Social Affairs on his efforts to get the Government to agree to a scheme to deduct 50 cents per month from each Muslim on a voluntary basis through the Central Provident Fund towards the Mosque Building Fund to be organised by the Majlis Ugama Islam Singapura (MUIS). The idea of building mosques in satellite towns was mooted many years ago, but the donations collected from Muslim donors, the majority of whom were wage earners were made, inadequate for the purpose. Now, with the cooperation of Government, I think it should not be difficult to overcome the other problems as well, for example, compliance with the need for building plans. Not only in respect of the construction of mosques but, in fact, in any other project, the primary question is the availability of funds. With the assistance of the Government forthcoming, the idea to deduct a small sum on a voluntary basis from the salaries of Muslim workers has been welcomed by local Muslims. This will greatly relieve the burden of the Mosque Building Committees. What I wish to suggest to the Minister is that upon completion of the construction of the mosques, it would be wise to continue with the deductions for those who wish to do so. The reason is that upon completion of the mosques, there are recurrent expenditures to be met, such as repairs and renovation; payment of PUB bills, remuneration for the imams and officials and other miscellaneous expenditure which require funds. Otherwise, the mosques which would have been built at very high costs, would fall into a state of neglect. Similarly, there is the question of welfare of the Muslim community, for which assistance is needed in the matter of raising money to finance awards of scholarships and bursaries. In the past, in addition to Government assistance in the form of special bursaries for the Malays, there were voluntary organisations like the LBKM which collected funds by organising flag days, to assist poor students. These bodies have now coordinated their efforts with the MUIS. Therefore, I think these voluntary bodies need no longer continue to function because MUIS, with Government assistance, can now collect the funds through the CPF, and the awards of scholarships and bursaries can be effected through the Public Service Commission to avoid allegation of favouritism in such awards. Sir, a few years ago the Minister made a promise in this House, but it has not as yet been fulfilled. This is in regard to haj pilgrims from Singapore. He said that they would be provided with medical facilities and their welfare would be looked after by a welfare officer during their sojourn in Mecca and Medina. Sir, I would like to know whether the Minister will fulfil his promise this year or whether he will merely put this matter in his KIV file.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Kampung Kembangan referred to the scheme of collecting 50 cents from each Muslim per month through the CPF for the Mosque Building Fund and asked whether this scheme could be extended for other purposes which would benefit the Muslim community in Singapore. It is necessary to make it clear that this scheme as well as the Mosque Building Fund are introduced for a specific purpose, and that is, to raise sufficient money for the building of a mosque in each new town. The scheme as it stands is to build four new mosques, each varying between $500,000 and $800,000 in cost, in Toa Payoh, Jurong, Queenstown and Chai Chee in the course of the next three to eight years. Two other mosques will also be built eventually in Woodlands or Ama Keng and Telok Blangah or Pasir Panjang. The Government will review the situation after the completion of these six mosques to find out whether there is a need for this scheme to continue. But, first, let us collect the money to enable us to build all the six mosques. I share with the Member for Kampung Kembangan his concern for the welfare of Singapore pilgrims during their pilgrimage to Mecca. I have, in fact, asked the Muslim Religious Council to look into this problem closely to ensure that our Singapore pilgrims are well looked after in Saudi Arabia. For this purpose, a Pilgrimage Committee was set up by the Council. At the same time, the Administration of Muslim Law Act is being revised to place the responsibility for pilgrimage on the Council. Even before the legal framework for implementing various decisions to improve the arrangements for pilgrimage of Singapore Muslims, the Council has implemented a number of measures. Singapore pilgrims now travel with pilgrimage passes issued by the Pilgrim Officer of Singapore. The Pilgrim's Fund, Malaysia, which has a network of welfare and medical facilities in Saudi Arabia, recognise these passes and extend to Singapore holders of these passes its medical and welfare services at Saudi Arabia. Officials of the Council have checked on this at Saudi Arabia and found that these arrangements are very satisfactory. They have reported that our pilgrims enjoyed excellent health services provided by the Malaysian Medical Mission. They received prompt medical attention whenever and wherever medical care was required. I have said this before in Parliament, and I still am of the view, that since the arrangements made with the Pilgrim's Fund, Malaysia, to provide medical and welfare services to our pilgrims are satisfactory, there is no necessity to set up our own medical and welfare missions. The Council is also looking into the activities of pilgrim brokers to ensure that they provide good service to Singapore pilgrims. As a start, the Council has recommended to the Ministry that pilgrim brokers licences should only be granted to those who have a good record of service. Those who are just interested in making money and who make empty promises to pilgrims will not be granted licences. The Council is considering appointing a few reliable pilgrim brokers in Mecca specially to look after Singapore pilgrims. This arrangement will ensure that Singapore pilgrims will not be neglected by brokers who are only interested in making money and are not really prepared to render good service in Mecca, Medina and Jeddah.

(In Malay): Mr Speaker, Sir, since Singapore is an independent country, why should we rely on another country to render medical and welfare services to our pilgrims? Is the Ministry of , Social Affairs contributing towards this service?

Sir, there has already been cooperation between the Singapore and Malaysian Governments on the question of looking after the welfare of Singapore pilgrims in Jeddah. In fact, the Singapore Government gives a contribution to the Pilgrim's Fund, Malaysia, every year to look after our pilgrims in Saudi Arabia.

(In Malay): Sir, what is the amount of the contribution?

Sir, I think the contribution for last year was over $40,000, it depends on the number of pilgrims going to Mecca from Singapore every year.

(In Malay): In view of the Minister's explanation, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the names of Messrs Ng Kah Ting and P. Govindaswamy -

Mr Ng is not moving. Mr P. Govindaswamy.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head R be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BDA 1107. Sir, whenever the subject of Legal Aid Bureau comes up for discussion, the only question that is brought up is the delay in the handling of cases that have been referred to the Bureau. Sometimes it takes about one to two years to deal with a simple case. Why is there such a delay? Probably the Bureau is understaffed and overworked. It is useless to discuss year in and year out the same complaint, without any action being taken. Can something be done to improve the situation, such as increasing the number of staff? It is also observed that the staff at the counters are unable to assist the public in any way if there is no written information to trace the case, even if the person, who had previously been there, was able to recall the nature of the case. This is evidence to show that so many cases have been referred to the Bureau that the staff are unable to recollect and trace any case even after a short duration. Sir, it is believed that the Registry Section of the Bureau is unable to cope with the demand for attention. Unless a numbered card is produced, thus leading to inconvenience to the public, one is not able to get any attention thereby causing the case to be delayed. Can something be done also to improve the function of the Registry and to instruct the staff to be polite, courteous and helpful to the poor and also the illiterate people who are forced to come to this Bureau .for legal assistance? 3.30 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, while I agree with the Member for Anson that the Legal Aid Bureau is in critical need of more staff, I cannot agree with the statement that there is undue delay on the part of the Bureau in dealing with the cases. Legal cases are not all the same. Some are simple cases which can be settled straightaway. Others take a longer time depending on their complexity and the legal processes involved. Cases that require court proceedings normally take some tithe to resolve. Take the example of a person seeking aid to claim damages for injuries sustained in a traffic accident. In such cases, the Bureau has to apply for police reports, medical reports and particulars of vehicles involved from the Registry of Vehicles. The Police would have to investigate the more serious accidents and inform the Bureau of the results of their investigations. More often than not, there is a need for applicants to undergo further medical examinations. The question of liability would have to be discussed and correspondence entered into with insurance companies or their solicitors. Instructions have to be obtained from applicants in respect of letters received, and suitable replies sent. Should an offer be made subsequently, this would have to be communicated to the applicants and, more often than not, the quantum of damages would be the subject of negotiations until a settlement is reached to the satisfaction of the applicants. Should a settlement fail to materialise, court proceedings would have to be instituted. Court documents would have to be prepared, filed and served. Thereafter, a date would have to be fixed by the Court for the hearing of the cases All these take a great deal of time. I am more concerned about the staffing position of the Legal Aid Bureau. As the Bureau is rendering a useful social service for the poor, it must have adequate staff to carry Out its work satisfactorily. The Ministry will continue to press for the required posts to ensure that the Bureau functions effectively. It is simply up to the Ministry of Finance to consider the requirements of the Legal Aid Bureau in terms of funds, resources and manpower and accord priority to them in relation to proposals in other fields. Regarding the Member's comment on the Registry Section, action has already been taken to improve the situation. A Record Keeper/Paper Searcher has been posted to the Bureau. The Bureau has a system of issuing interview cards similar to what the Member for Anson suggested. The receipt issued to applicants on payment of $ 1 for registration also contains particulars of the applicant and the file reference. Applicants are expected to bring these documents whenever they convey to the Bureau. Difficulty in tracing case files only arises when the applicants either do not bring or forget to bring their receipts or the interview cards. I am satisfied that the staff of the Registry Section of the Bureau have been efficient. There have been no complaints of impoliteness or discourtesy.

Sir, in view of the explanation given by the Minister, .1 beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the names of Messrs Ng Kah Ting and Teong Eng Siong -

Mr Ng Kah Ting is not here. Mr Teong Eng Siong.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head R be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BEA 1107. Sir, the Social Welfare Department has done quite a lot for the benefit of the people. It has, for example, been giving public assistance to the poor, set up homes for the aged to look after the old and the destitute, set up creches to look after children. All these are very commendable moves and is evidence of the Government's desire to help the people. However, it seems that facilities in the two homes for the aged are not adequate. They are filled to capacity, and prospective occupants are not able to find a place or have to wait for a long time before they can get a place. I would like to ask the Minister whether he would consider setting up another home for the aged to look after the old and destitute people. Another question I would like to ask is whether the Minister would consider setting up a home to look after those who are disabled so that these unfortunate victims can be looked after by the Government.

Mr Speaker, Sir, there is no long waiting list for admission into the Social Welfare Department's Home for the Aged at Woodlands. There are only 18 aged persons awaiting admission into this Home, and their applications have been proposed. Although there are a number of aged persons awaiting admission into the voluntary homes for the aged, there is no lack of initiative and effort to meet this increasing demand. The Salvation Army's Lee Kuo Chuan Home for the Aged will open sometime in June this year, while the Society for the Aged Sick is planning an extension to its premises at Jalan Payoh Lai. The Singapore Council of Social Service is also building a home for the aged in Mandai and another voluntary organisation plans to build a similar home. The Government agrees that homes should be provided for the aged who require them and will continue to encourage and support voluntary and community initiatives in the development of more homes for the aged. But there is also a need for a balanced approach in the planning and implementation of welfare facilities for the aged. Institutional care for the aged is not a substitute for family care. The support. security and continued interaction with the family and the members of the community are vital elements in the life of an aged person. The Government recognises the need for the aged to live with their families. The revised income tax laws which allow tax relief for maintenance of aged parents and grandparents is one of the positive measures the Government has taken. The Housing and Development Board is also giving special consideration by providing adequate accommodation for large families. Those organisations concerned with the care of the aged should now consider the alternatives to long-term institutional care for the aged. They should give increasing attention to the development of facilities and services which would encourage the aged to continue living and participating in the community. It is possible that the long waiting list referred to by the Member for Sembawang may mean the aged chronic sick who, however, do not come under the purview of my Ministry. As for the building of a residential home for handicapped people, the Member for Sembawang may be interested to know that in the voluntary sector, an impressive network of services for the care and welfare of handicapped children already exists. It is the Government's view that parents should be encouraged to keep their handicapped children at home where they can provide them with the love and attention so necessary for their growth and development. A number of voluntary organisations do provide institutional facilities for some categories of handicapped children. The welfare and training of the physically and mentally handicapped children is a field in which the voluntary organisations have all along excelled. The Government does not intend to duplicate the facilities these voluntary welfare organisations provide. The Government will, however, continue to assist these organisations so that they can carry out their welfare work among the physically and mentally handicapped more effectively. At present, the Government pays the salaries of many of the teaching staff in the voluntary organisations and makes per capita grants to approved institutions that provide residential care for handicapped children and quarterly grants to meet administration expenses of a number of voluntary organisations. In addition, it administers a fostering scheme for mentally defective children and a maintenance allowance to encourage parents to keep their mentally defective children at home. There is, therefore, no need for the Government to build an institution for handicapped children. As for handicapped adults, the Government lays emphasis on their training and rehabilitation to enable them to be self-supporting and to remain with their families as useful members of the community.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, although the Parliamentary Secretary has given me a very detailed explanation that many voluntary bodies have done a lot to look after the disabled, I think that their services are not sufficient. I have received complaints from parents of disabled and handicapped children that they had to wait for a long time before their handicapped children could get a place in these institutions. I would like to know whether the Ministry can set up institutions to receive these handicapped persons.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, at the present juncture there is no need for the Government to set up such an institution. I think it is best left to the voluntary organisations to set up homes for the handicapped persons. When it is necessary, we will consider such needs.

(In Mandarin): Sir, in view of the Parliamentary Secre tary's explanation, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

I would remind Members that the "guillotine" for this Head is 6.10 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head R be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BEB 1111. Sir, in my constituency - I might as well say Telok Blangah, otherwise the newspaper reporters who are present here might report me as the Member for Anson instead, as had been the case this morning in respect of yesterday's speeches. They have also passed snide remarks in this afternoon's papers; perhaps this is as a result of the Culture Minister's running down of the press yesterday. Sir, in Telok Blangah there is an old folks' home in Bushey Park where the old citizens who are vagrants or who have no place to go are sheltered. This Bushey Park Home is spotlessly clean and the surroundings reasonably well maintained for which the Ministry of Social Affairs and the officials responsible ought to be congratulated. And the congratulations must end here. The inmates look after the surroundings well, and that is the only good thing that I can say about this Home. 3.45 p.m. Sir, the living quarters are terribly overcrowded and the amenities are terribly poor. The meals provided are communally cooked. I went there unannounced and have personally seen the meals cooked and served. I have no complaints about the rice that is served. But what goes with the rice cannot be imagined, unless one personally witnesses what is served for food. One need not be a dietician to know that a square meal needs to have protein, carbohydrates, fat and roughage. The inmates are provided with these. Vegetables and fish are boiled in a large cauldron with water and perhaps some salt. I would not dare taste it. At the whims and fancies of someone who is supposed to be the cook, this concoction is dished out to the inmates who are our senior citizens of Singapore in Bushey Park. One has to see this meal to really know what a mess this is, it is colourless, tasteless, not palatable, meshed and, as far as I am concerned, not fit for human consumption. [Laughter.] I do not think this is a matter for amusement. Sir, is this the way we treat our citizens in one of our welfare homes, citizens who perhaps have been neglected by their children or, in certain instances, even neglected by the State? I do not expect the Social Welfare Department to provide these inmates with restaurant-cooked meals. I do not expect the old folks to be provided with sumptuous meals. But one can reasonably expect them to be provided with at least a palatable meal.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Telok Blangah has made certain complaints about the food provided in the Bushey Park Home. The actual situation is not so serious as he has made it. The old folks in the Home are there because they have already made their contribution to society in their youth. So it is our duty and responsibility to look after them now that they are old; hence the Home for the Aged. The Member's complaint is that the food provided in the food is tasteless and colourless. I think it is difficult to please everybody's taste. People with different backgrounds have different tastes. If the old folks there had a background of riches in the past they must have developed a very keen taste for good food. But if they had a poor life, then their taste is different from the rich people. The real test is whether we ourselves have tasted the food. Anyway, I would like to thank the Member for showing concern and interest. As regards his complaint we have, in fact, investigated the matter and found that the bean curd, ikan bilis and sambal were served on that particular day when the Member called at the Home. And it was because of the knowledge that an MP was coming that the cook became nervous, and mixed up all the food. The ikan bills was put together with the vegetables and the bean curd. And so the whole thing became a "concoction" as the Member has said. Perhaps it was this nervousness that caused the food to be so tasteless or "in a mess". Sir, nowadays it is difficult to get good cooks, and we must also realise that mass cooking is a problem in itself. The cooks do not have to cook for individuals. They have to cook for many people at a time. Anyway, I agree with the Member that we must look after our old people properly and give them good food and to prepare the food as palatable as possible. We must realise that there are about 270 inmates in the Bushey Park Home. When they were admitted, some of them were feeble, while others were sick. But because of the medical attention and the care given, these old people develop a very good appetite after two weeks of admission. In fact, their appetite has increased, and there arc very clear instances to prove this. Even the swill collectors complain that there is not enough left-overs for the swill cans. All this goes to show that the food has been well consumed. It also goes to show that the health of the inmates has improved to the extent that they are able to consume all the food provided, with very little left-over for the swill cans. Anyway, I would like to thank the Member for showing interest in our old people. We will continue to give our care and concern, particularly in respect of the food that is provided.

Sir, I do not particularly accept the explanation. If they had known that I was coming and yet served that mess, I think we can well imagine what sort of food is served if no VIP is present at that place. Sir, swill cans are empty because less and less are being cooked and not more are being eaten. Having made the point and having brought it to the notice of the House and in particular to the Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary, who is responsible for the Bushey Park Home, I hope that there will be an improvement. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Ang Nam Piau -

Mr Ang is not here to move his amendment. Mr P. Govindaswamy.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head R be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BFA 1109. Sir, after the major fire at Robinson's a few years ago, it has been compulsory for all organisations, government departments, factories, departmental stores, etc, to eradicate all fire hazards and to provide greater fire safety measures in order to avoid a recurrence of such a disaster. But it is sad to note that although a large sum of money was spent on this item of expenditure, we still hear of numerous major and minor cases of fire in the last few years with losses amounting to millions of dollars. What measures are being taken to prevent fires in big departmental stores? After the Robinson fire, many departmental stores have introduced side-staircases. But unfortunately all these exits are securely locked. What happens if there is a fire? If the officer in charge of the keys were to panic or was not around, then a lot of people would be trapped and roasted alive. How often are checks and drills carried out to ensure that departmental stores do not display their goods in such a manner as to become a hazard in a fire emergency? I want to know whether the use of fire-fighting equipment and the methods of combating fire are being taught to workers in offices, factories, departmental store staff and school officials. Because if these people are ignorant of the correct use of this equipment, then it is pointless to have them. Sir, how often are fire-fighting equipment checked to see that they really work, because quite often when they are tested, some of them are found to be out of order. I hope that fire-fighting equipment, such as fire extinguishers, in all buildings, be it departmental stores, theatres, offices, etc., are checked regularly. It would be wise to introduce a helicopter service to fight fires in high-rise buildings, i wonder how this service is going to help in fighting a fire. Can the Minister explain?

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Singapore Fire Brigade has recommended that the first-aid fire-fighting equipment, such as extinguishers which are installed in commercial buildings and factories, should be tested and checked at least once a year, and also immediately after they are discharged. The Brigade provides this service to members of the public at a nominal fee. The Brigade conducts regular courses on the fundamentals of fire-fighting, rescue methods, evacuation procedures and fire prevention for industrial personnel, occupants of high-rise buildings and organised groups. Last year, about 3,000 persons from various sectors of our community, including factory workers, shipyard employees, safety officers and staff of commercial and industrial establishments, civic organisations and occupants of high-rise buildings participated in these courses. Since the beginning of this year, over 2,000 persons have benefited from the Brigade's educational programmes. When the training wing of the Jurong Fire Station is established in June 1975, the Brigade would be in a better position to expand and diversify its training programmes for members of the public. The Brigade also conducts regular fire drills at the numerous industrial premises, high-rise buildings and fire-risk areas all over Singapore. Such drills arc sometimes organised jointly with the managements of industrial and commercial buildings. These drills also enable the firemen to be familiar with fire-risk areas and the possible hazards in the various buildings, so that they can plan and coordinate fire-fighting and carry out fire ground operations more effectively in the event of fire. 4.00 p.m. When the Singapore Fire Brigade was actively involved in making recommendations for fire prevention facilities in all buildings, they ensured that there were adequate measures for the protection of life and property in the event of fire. Stringent requirements were imposed on high-rise buildings including the provision of -

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head R be reduced by $10 in respect of item (m) of subhead AAA 3020*. (*The same amendment alos stood in the names of Messrs N. Govindasamy and Ivan Baptist). Sir, this subhead gives me the opportunity to ask the Minister what the financial standing of the Singapore Sports Council is at the moment, and also to make some observations on the objectives of the Council which is formulated in Part III of the Singapore Sports Council Act. One of the main objectives of the Council is to plan for sports development and promotion. To-date I am not aware of any comprehensive plan on sports development and promotion being produced by the Sports Council. I hope the Council is working towards the production of such a plan, a plan which is to some extent a total plan on sports development and promotion, taking into consideration our population movement, population concentration, age groups, residential status, occupational patterns of residents in various ages in the State and also the physical development of sports facilities that are being undertaken by statutory boards like the HDB, Ministry of Education, maybe the Urban Redevelopment Authority and so on. Secondly, is the Council also working towards the planning of sports at the management level? Here, it may be a little complicated, but if the efforts are directed towards coordinating the management of sports that are being undertaken by bodies like the SNOC, the sports organisations, and Ministry of Education, then a kind of effective plan of sports management might be achieved. Thirdly, I also would like to enquire of the Minister what the Sports Council is doing in the field of physical education, which is another objective of the Council described in the Sports Council Act. I am aware that there are two other sources that are concerned with physical education. One is the Institute of Edu- cation that is worried over it. The other is the Physical Education department in the Ministry of Education. Has the Sports Council involved itself in physical education and undertaken efforts to promote physical education? Has it coordinated a plan among the two other institutions in order to promote physical education in the State?

Mr N. Govindasamy and Mr Ivan Baptist are not here.

Sir, the Singapore Sports Council, which was formed through the amalgamation of the National Sports Promotion Board and the National Stadium Corporation took over the assets and liabilities of the two former sports organisations. Though efforts are being made by the management of the Council to make a good number of its sports projects economically viable, most sports facilities and activities co-ordinated by the Council have to be heavily subsidised. An example is the seven swimming pools which are being administered by the Council. Subsidy of these pools ranges from 45% to 92.5%. The charges for admission to the swimming pools and for the usage of other sports facilities such as playing fields, are low, and have to be so, if we are to encourage people to take part in recreational sports. The financial standing of the SSC is as follows. The SSC carries loans, for the construction of the National Stadium, totalling $15.15 million at 5¾ and these are fully repayable. The interest payable from 1975 is $238,438 and this will increase proportionately in the coming years. The income of the Council which includes a projection of revenue up to the end of the financial year (31.3.75) will be in the region of $5.101 million, while the expenditure, including the estimated expenditure up to 31.3.75, will be around $5.058 million. The revenue includes a $2.5 million grant from Government and a $800,000 grant from the Singapore Pools. The reason for the likely excess revenue over expenditure is due to the Council earning more revenue for 1974 than had been anticipated. However, there has been no provision of payment of interest due to loans, or part-payment of the loan itself. SSC cannot see how it can ever pay these outstanding loans. SSC is currently planning a sports programme which will provide sports development in the country over the next 5-10 years, in conjunction with the Master Plan on Sports Facilities. This planning is now at the data collection stage, after which consultation will be commenced with all departments and organisations involved in sports promotion, such as the Ministry of Education, Ministry of Defence, People's Association, the Singapore National Olympic Council and national sports organisations. The plan will examine the integration of all sports promotion projects and activities from the schools to the national level. It will cater for all grades of participants. Some areas of development in this plan which will be examined by the Committee to be set up, are as follows: (a) A comprehensive physical education curriculum from kindergarten through university to ensure that meaningful activities and continuity throughout the years of formal education and carry-over value into adult years. (b) Systematic establishment of a network of recreation and sports centres throughout the Republic in conjunction with the Master Plan on Sports Facilities. (c) Preparation and training of physical recreation and sports leaders at a rate commensurate with the growth and requirements of physical recreation and sports centres. (d) Provision of a comprehensive sports service through which the public is provided with ample opportunities to learn sports skills. The question of the implementation of such a plan will depend primarily upon how the various ministries anti organisations can shoulder the responsibilities and respond to the overall plan. The role of SSC is one of coordination. Both the Ministry of Education and the Singapore Sports Council have looked into the respective sports promotion programmes in their areas and have independently come to the same conclusion that popular demand for sports promotion involves 15 sports, including sea sports. These sports are being actively promoted in schools, SSC will develop programmes and facilities to ensure that continuity is provided for. The Member for Serangoon is right in stressing the importance of physical education. Both the Ministry and the Singapore Sports Council recognise that a programme of mass participation and involvement in sports is needed to raise the level of physical fitness of our people, particularly our young. Planning for sports by the Council and the schools and educational authorities will he based on, the philosophy of encouraging participation in sports and games by both the talented and the untalented, the strong as well as the weak. The Council is now studying the requirements pertaining to physical education. A Committee has been appointed to look into the necessity and feasibility of establishing an Institute of Physical Education and Sports in Singapore. Two senior officials of the Ministry of Education are now serving as members of the Singapore Sports Council, one of whom is the Deputy Director of the Ministry of Education and the other is the Chairman of the Extra Curricular Activities Advisory Committee. The People's Association is also represented on the Singapore Sports Council, and it has been given the res- ponsibility for the co-ordination of intraconstituency sports. The Council will effect co-ordination between the People's Association, the community centres and their sports organisers with the various national sports associations to ensure that suitable sporting activities are planned at the grass-root level, which are of appeal to young and old alike. In the final analysis, sports promotion is a community obligation. The Sports Council cannot be expected to achieve its objectives within a few years. Sports consciousness needs a long time to inculcate.

I appreciate the Minister's reply and beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. 4.15 p.m.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head R be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BFA 2030 Firstly. I would like to find out from the Minister why the provision apportioned to this subhead has been reduced from $15,000 to $8,000 this year. Does it imply that the primary aim o, the Fire Brigade Week has been attained or otherwise? Would the Minister care to enlighten this House? The next point is that the Fire Brigade Week should place emphasis on driving home to the people the various methods of fire prevention and in case of fire the best means of escape, instead of sheer manifestation of new fire-fighting equipment and techniques. I am not opposing something interesting to attract the crowd, but the primary objective of the Fire Brigade Week should not be outdone by too many unnecessary performances.

Mr Speaker, Sir, although a few fire-fighting displays were held during the Fire Brigade Week last year, emphasis was in fact placed on fire-prevention. The fire-fighting displays attracted huge crowds and helped to arouse greater fire-consciousness in the people, while a massive programme to educate them on fire hazards and the methods of fire prevention was being mounted. Booklets, brochures and posters on fire prevention in the home and industry were printed in the various languages for free distribution to the public, and the Brigade visited some schools and community centres to give lectures on fire prevention. The week-long exhibition at the People's Park Concourse also provided a wealth of information on fire prevention. The Singapore Fire Brigade had, in fact, proposed an ambitious programme for this year involving a total sum of $27,550 to educate our population on fire prevention methods and what to do in the event of a fire. However, owing to the constraint on public expenditure, only $8,000 was approved for this project. The bulk of this provision will be spent to expand the Brigade's educational programmes for every level of the community.

Sir, in view of the reply given by the Minister, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr L. P. Rodrigo -

I am not moving, Sir.

Sir, I beg to move. That the sum to be allocated for Head R be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BBA 8101. Sir, the first time I visited the Registry of Marriages was some nine years ago when I got married. The second time was two months ago - of course, not a second marriage - but to witness the marriage of a friend of mine who is a foreigner at the Registry. I am ashamed of the poor condition of the Registry building; it is small and unsuitable as a Registry of Marriages. With this year's provision, we are given to understand that the Registry of Marriages will be renovated. The Minister must be congratulated on this after such a long duration. I would like to suggest to the Minister that at least a decent reception hall should be provided in the Registry of Marriages. In Hong Kong, which is a British colony, the Registry of Marriages has a decent and beautiful reception ball with facilities for the holding of small receptions. Sir, what I am pointing out is that the Government is asking the people not to spend and throw unnecessarily big parties on such occasions, and it is also educating our people to cultivate the habit of saving. With the facilities of a decent reception hall, I am sure the young married couples could save a lot of money by making use of such a reception hall to give small tea reception to their relatives and friends after they are married by the Registrar of Marriages. I would also request the Minister to consider the provision of a reception hall not only in the Registry of Marriages but also in the Shariah Court for the Muslims.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Changi may wish to know that my Ministry has given considerable thought to the need for a new building for the Registry of Marriages. The present Registry is crammed and not so well located. The ceremony at the Registry leaves little for the married couples to treasure in their memories. Furthermore, the present site is affected by the development project to convert Fort Canning Hill and its surrounding slopes into a Central Park-cum-Cultural Centre. The Ministry has considered a number of sites as alternative accommodation for the Registry, and has decided to house the Registry of Marriages in a building at Fort Canning, which is now occupied by the Singapore Command and Staff College. As soon as the Ministry of Defence finds another place to accommodate the College, renovation works will begin to convert the building for use by the Registry. The new Registry of Marriages building will blend with the scenic beauty of the Central Park at Fort Canning. It will have proper facilities for the solemnisation of marriages. There will be two solemnisation halls, a notice section and one waiting room. In addition, there will be a large marriage ceremony hall with space for musical hands, which could be used by couples for reception to he held to entertain their friends and relatives. Other facilities in the new building include restaurants, shops, photographic studios, piped romantic music while the couples are waiting to be married as well as a chamber for brides.

In view of the explanation, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head R be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BFA 8101. Sir, the subject of Jurong Fire Station has been brought up in this House on many occasions. I hope this will be the final one. Every year the Minister or his Parliamentary Secretary says that the fire station will be ready the following year, but up to-date the fire station is still not operational. During the past year, as far as I know, several factories in Jurong had been burned down; so there is an urgent need for a fire station in Jurong Town. In this respect, I would urge the Minister to expedite the matter and to ensure that the fire station will be operational as early as possible. Just now in reply to a query by the Member for Anson, the Minister said that the Jurong Fire Station will be commissioned sometime in June this year. Can the Minister confirm this? I would also like to find out from the Minister how will this fire station be run. Will it be operational round the clock, and how many fire engines will be stationed there?

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Jurong never gives up. The Fire Station will be completed next month and it is expected to be operational in June, as I have said earlier. It will have two fire engines and an ambulance and they will provide a 24-hour round-the-clock service to the public and give fire cover to the western part of Singapore including, of course, the Jurong Town, the Jurong Industrial Estate, the major portions of the areas served by Jurong Road and Chua Chu Kang Road, and the whole of Lim Chu Kang and the areas around it.

In view of the most satisfactory reply so far, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendments stood in the name of Mr Ng Kah Ting -

Mr Ng Kah Ting is not moving both amendments. The sum of $23,698,480 for Head R ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $4,149,100 for Head R ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

I propose to have a break now. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

I suspend the Sitting and shall take the Chair again at 5.00 p.m. Sitting accordingly suspended at 4.30 p.m, until 5.00 p.m. Sitting resumed at 5.00 p.m.

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

Head S -

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head S be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 1004*. (*The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs Ang Nam Piau, P. Govindaswamy, L. P. Rodrigo, Cheong Yuen Chee and Ong Teng Cheong). Sir, the President mentioned in his speech that there would be much in 1975 to keep Members busy. It is fitting and honourable for us to be given the opportunity of having a greater share in the affairs of our country. We sincerely accept this noble piece of encouragement. However, it cannot be denied that for any kind of work to succeed, a stable, reasonable and cooperative environment is necessary. A Member of Parliament is the representative of the people in his constituency. So it is reasonable to expect him to serve the electorate; in fact, it is his duty to do so. However, there are many matters which, with adequate cooperation from Government officials concerned, we could save a lot of trouble and be able to make more and better contribution. In the past there was a period when officers of various departments under the Ministry of National Development had shown some degree of courtesy toward members of the public. But in recent years there have been criticisms again that officers in that Ministry have resumed their old weakness and have become bureaucratic again. Their attitude now is even worse than before. This is most regrettable. For instance, the Ministry of National Development has been issuing decrees to tenants ordering them to remove within a given time. No sympathetic consideration was given. There are some small-scale industries, cottage industries and store houses which have been in existence for a few decades. The occupiers suddenly received orders to remove by a certain date and time as specified. They were unable to remove to a suitable place immediately. They have been depending on the use of their buildings for a livelihood and if they cannot find alternative accommodation to carry on with their business operations, their livelihood will be in jeopardy. In fact, the development plans of the Ministry of National Development for the various constituencies relate to the promotion of social and economic interests of the whole country. At the same time they are aimed at improving the living environment of the people. This had originally been well-received by all the people generally. However, what is bad is the urgent order to quit, which is inhuman. We reckon that the Ministry of National Development should at least first arrange for alternative accommodation for those who are required to quit under urgent orders, and they would surely have accepted it. In this way, the development plans of the Ministry could be carried out smoothly. Moreover, the people affected will also not have any complaints against the Government. If the Ministry continues to disregard the feelings of the people and persists in cowing the people by decrees which they have to obey, it will not be to anybody's advantage. Our system is a one-man-one-vote democracy. I believe the Ministry of National Development will not want to turn it into a one-man-one-gun society. Sir, finally I would like to touch upon the development plans of the various constituencies. Perhaps we all know that many constituents on receiving notices to quit would go to their respective Members of Parliament for advice. But the MPs themselves are kept in the dark about such notices. If the authorities concerned could notify the respective Members of Parliament in advance about any removal or plan for development to be carried out, then things would be much better and results can be achieved with half the effort. This would be similar to the practice of PUB, where it would notify the consumers concerned before cutting off electricity and water supplies. If this arrangement could be adopted by the Ministry, the Member of Parliament concerned can also assist the Ministry or the constituents to solve their problems so that both sides concerned can cooperate and the task can be carried out smoothly. This would save much time and trouble for all. I hope the Ministry of National Development will follow the example of the PUB or PWD so that in the implementation of any future development or resettlement schemes, the authorities concerned would notify the MP concerned in advance and cooperate with him in order to help solve or expedite the matter. There is another point. Recently some of my constituents have been asked to remove because the site was required by the HDB for a housing development.

The Member has half a minute more.

(In Mandarin): But before any alternative accommodation could be allocated to them, the authorities concerned had already forced them to sign documents to move out. Perhaps the Minister concerned does not fully understand the difficulties of the rural people.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the allocation of Housing Board flats is made on a "first come first served" basis according to the registration of applicants. The applicants have to wait for at least three to four years before a flat can be allocated to them. Moreover, priority of allocation is given to those who are affected by resettlement schemes, and also to police personnel and National Service personnel. This will cause an applicant on the register to wait even longer. Sir, Government officers are public servants who render service to the people. Government officers in Singapore have also been acclaimed to be among the most efficient. However, they are not given priority for HDB flats. However, the national service reservists and police personnel are given priority. This is contrary to Singapore's principles of justice and equality. So, in order to be fair, I hope the Minister concerned will consider the suggestion that all public officers who have served for more than three years should be entitled to priority in the allocation of HDB flats. ]

I am not speaking, Sir.

I am not speaking, Sir.

Mr Cheong Yuen Chee is not here. Mr Ong Teng Cheong.

I am not speaking, Sir.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Sand Granite Quarries Regulations, 1971, were revoked and in their place the Sand and Granite Quarries Regulations, 1974, were introduced. Clauses 13 and 18 of the 1971 Regulations - very important clauses, mind you - were deleted when the 1974 Regulations were introduced. Clause 13 requires the licensee of a quarry to ensure that every employee and worker on his premises shall undergo a full chest X-ray examination before he is employed, and that no person found to be suffering from any pulmonary disease is allowed to work on his premises. 5.15 p.m. It is well known that the incidence of silicosis or pulmonary fibrosis caused by the inhalation of dust containing free silica, a dreaded occupational disease, has been on the increase in Singapore over the last few years. By 1973, out of 461 notified cases, 185 were confirmed. This constitutes more than 10% of the mining and quarrying industry workers in Singapore. Clause 13 of the 1971 Regulations took cognisance of the dire need to ensure that the condition of any individual affected by the pulmonary disease should not be worsened. Clause 18 of the 1971 Regulations required that a record of X-ray examinations be kept by the licensee in an approved register. Although the 1974 Regulations require a yearly X-ray examination of all employees in a granite quarry, and a biennial X-ray exami nation in the case of a sand quarry, no records of these examinations are required to be kept. By deleting clause 18 of the 1971 Regulations, the competent authority cannot check immediately whether all employees have been X-rayed in accordance with legislative requirements. The long process of having to consult the medical practitioner or practitioners to obtain details will mean extra cost, delays and additional exposure of affected workers, if any, to greater risk of contracting silicosis. The 1974 Regulations have indeed taken a dangerous retrogressive step. I wonder why such a callous step was taken.

Mr Speaker, Sir, may I deal first with the Member for Paya Lebar who has made general accusations against my Ministry. He said that my officers were cooperative and courteous in the past and they have "suddenly become bureaucratic and even worse than they were before". I hope this is only confined to Paya Lebar. Something appears to have gone wrong somewhere. We do consult Members of Parliament when there are large schemes affecting certain constituencies. In Paya Lebar itself, the Perseverance Estate was acquired in two parts in 1971, which means something was on. It is only recently that a survey was taken of part of the estate and resettlement started. Surely the Member should have known what was happening. He wants priority for alternative accommodation perhaps for everyone. He says we issue decrees. We do not. We issue notices to quit. Decrees telling people to move out immediately is a waste of time, and issuing a notice to quit asking a family to move out immediately is also a waste of time. Because they never move. The notice to quit is usually a one month's notice to quit, and it is several months before they are moved out. Resettlement is a most difficult and unpleasant business where people are moved out of their homes. Wherever possible, if the occupiers are eligible, alternative accommodation is provided. No one is kicked out of his house immediately. Perhaps the Member is referring to some squatters in the estate who have erected unauthorised structures and extensions and have sublet or assigned their houses to operators of various small scale industries. In order to reduce the magnitude of the resettlement problem when the estate is redeveloped, the Board has taken enforcement action on these illegal operators. Perhaps the Member may be referring to this problem. But even in those cases an adequate grace period is given on appeal. Sir, before I go on to the complaint of the Member for Thomson, may I just assure the Member for Paya Lebar that if there has been no cooperation between my Ministry and his constituency or with him, it will be done in the future. The Member for Thomson wants priority for Housing Board accommodation for civil servants. All sorts of people want priority. The question is, who deserves priority? We are giving priority to a small percentage of national servicemen and a small percentage of policemen. The reason is that if you have a few policemen in one block and some national servicemen in another block, then the gangsters will keep away. For civil servants, those who are occupying Government accommodation because of the nature of their work and are asked to move out when they retire are given priority. The others are not. But we have been giving consideration to this matter from time to time. If we give priority to more and more sections of the community, it means that the waiting list becomes longer and longer. The Member for Potong Pasir referred to the deletion of two important clauses in the Sand and Granite Quarries Regulations of 1974. There seems to be substance in what he says. I was not aware of the deletion of these two clauses. Perhaps there is good reason, but there does not appear to be. But I will look into these regulations and reinsert these two clauses if that should be done.

(In Mandarin): Sir, just now the Minister mentioned that I have some prejudice against the officers of his Ministry. Actually it happened yesterday. After the Parliament sitting, when I returned to my constituency for my Meet-the-People session, I found to my surprise that there were about 30 constituents waiting to see me to seek my help. They said that in the morning the officers from the Ministry of National Development went there and asked them to sign their names on a document and thumbprints were taken from the old folks who could not sign, and they were told to quit. If they did not want to move, the officers said that they did not care. Perhaps the Minister does not understand the problem. It is difficult for old people to get alternative accommodation. Even if their thumbprints are taken, they cannot move out if they do not have alternative accommodation. I wish to make a request that the officers should be more considerate. My constituents are not dissatisfied with the Ministry of National Development. They are only asking for Satisfactory alternative accommodation for resettlement and they will be satisfied. For instance, at Bartley area in Paya Lebar, some families have been told to quit. There should have been prior planning and alternative accommodation should have been found for the affected families. A survey should have been conducted to find out the number of families who will be required to move and suitable alternative accommodation should be found for them. If they do not have alternative accommodation, surely the Minister does not expect them to sleep on the roadside! If the Minister is a kindhearted person, he would not do such a thing on these unfortunate people. But I know that the officers in his Ministry have such an attitude which is most oppressive to others. I hope the Minister can try to understand the matter deeper.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to support what the Member for Paya Lebar has just said. Last night I also had the same experience. When I turned up at my Meet-the-People session, some constituents in my area reported to me that they were forced to sign a certain document by officers of the Ministry. All those poor people are not literate in English. They were not even told what that document was supposed to be. When they put it to the officer concerned whether they were to be evicted or to be resettled and whether the Government would provide them with alternative accommodation, the reply given, to my mind, was unfortunately a very heartless one. There was an elderly lady. She has got only a daughter, and the reply given to her was, "No, you are not going to get any accommodation. We would only allow you to apply if you can get two more elderly ladies or persons, and then we would consider your application." Well, this is not the only complaint. Two weeks ago I had a similar experience in another part of my constituency. Some of my constituents were presented with blank forms. I was shown one. It was supposed to be a form used for an offer of compensation, but that part where the quantum of compensation was supposed to be indicated was left blank and the people were asked to sign the blank forms. Thus they did not know how much they were going to get. I think this is quite unfair. Surely the person who signs should be told how much he is going to get. Another point is this. The Member for Paya Lebar was not exaggerating when he stated that there was a lack of consideration. I had an experience recently. Quite a number of families were suddenly served with notices advising them to register for alternative accommodation within 24 hours. For some of these people, their menfolk were away from home at work. How were they going to get their menfolk to come back for registration? Surely 24 hours is too short a time. As for the support given to Members of Parliament, I think the Minister is aware of the case I mentioned here. I said that recently when I heard of some projects going on I asked for plans to be supplied, and I was told that I would be given the plans if I paid $30. Well, we are not asking for the plans to do our own business. We are asking for plans to serve the people and to help the Department to explain to the people what is involved. We are not even given this support. I finally got the plans and I said I would take up the matter of the payment of fees with the Minister. Sir, to be fair to the officer, he was very sympathetic. Unfortunately, when the matter was referred to the Ministry of Finance - the Minister for Finance is here today and I think it is an appropriate occasion for me to raise it --- the Ministry of Finance said, "No, the MP should pay for the plans." It is a very simple photostat plan costing $15 a copy. Does it make sense? A similar photostat document costs only 50 cents if you get it done in a shop outside. I think I have stated enough, Sir. 5.30 p.m.

Sir, on a point of clarification. The debate now appears to centre on resettlement. I have filed an amendment on the Development Estimates under Resettlement. Can 1 raise the issue now, Sir?

You might as well.

Sir, there is a major project of clearance going on in my constituency.

Sir, with your permission, I should like to be given the opportunity to reply to those two Members first, before some other Member starts on something else.

All right, Mr Barker.

I hope the Member for Jalan Kayu is not complaining of non-cooperation from my Ministry. Of course, there are resettlement officers going on their rounds, and if his constituents are asked to sign blank pieces of paper, his advice to them should be, "Do not sign". It is dangerous to sign a blank piece of paper. But surely they are not given 24 hours to remove from these houses. I remember the Member for Jalan Kayu himself inquiring from my Ministry what was happening in Jalan Kayu when a survey was being taken. We gave him full details of what was going to take place. So there was cooperation. But, as E said before, resettlement is unpleasant. Naturally he will have angry constituents in his PAP branch premises looking for his help when resettlement officers go round to his constituency. But surely if they are asked to register within 24 hours for alternative accommodation, that does not mean that they arc debarred from alternative accommodation if they do not turn up in 24 hours. There might be cases where those who are about to be evicted are not entitled to resettlement benefits for various reasons. First, they might not be citizens. Secondly, they might have just moved in, after the cut-off date. And there may be other reasons. But wherever possible, we provide alternative accommodation.

Sir, I think I ought to make further clarification. I did, in fact, write to the Ministry on the 3rd December, 1974, asking for details as to the development. I did not get a reply till February this year. In the meantime, before I got my reply, letters were sent Out by the Resettlement Department. The letters state very clearly: If you do not turn up for registration within 24 hours, it will be presumed that you will take care of your own alternative accommodation. The letter is a printed, standard form of letter. It is in black and white. How do we expect the people to feel? They naturally feel nervous. The Government always mean business. Does the Minister mean to say that what is stated there does not mean anything? That is not our Government. Whatever we say, we mean it. It is stated in black and white, and I still have a few copies in my possession.

Will you send me a copy?

I will be very happy to do that. There is perhaps a breakdown in communications. It might be that the officer lower down the line is given a certain order to carry out, and he is anxious to push it. But in the meantime he has forgotten that, those individuals affected are also human beings. We have to try to minimise the inconvenience to them. Naturally we have to look after the majority of people. To that extent, the minority might be affected. But in the process it is our job to make sure that we minimise the sufferings and inconveniences. This is not asking for too much, is it?

Mr Rodrigo.

On second thought, Sir, I think I will move my amendment when the appropriate time comes, because this subject of Resettlement appears to offer tremendous scope for further debate. By that time, I am sure a number of MPs will also be raising it.

(In Mandarin): Sir, before I withdraw my amendment, I would like to express the hope that the Minister would advise those pompous, bureaucratic and haughty civil servants to be more courteous to our people and to look after their interest with some sincerity and sympathy. I believe that the civil servants in the Ministry of National Development also have some kindness in their heart. With that, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head S be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BBA 1108. Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the Minister for Law and National Development to the unfair award in respect of land acquisition by the Commissioner of Lands. Sir, arising from urban renewal, the Commissioner of Lands has acquired three shophouses, all of which were owned by the same person in my constituency. These three shophouses have a total area of 1,985 sq, ft. They were acquired by Government for an award of $28,750 which amount, if divided by three, is equal to $9,583.33 for each shophouse. Sir, one of the acquired shophouses was occupied by the owner himself who runs a grocery, while the other two were let out: one a bookshop and the other a clan association. What is unfair is that, while the property was being acquired, the tenants of the bookshop, as well as the clan association, were offered a compensation of $15,000 for each premises or an alternative shophouse, whichever is preferred. But the tenant of the grocery, who happened to be the owner-occupier, was unfortunate as he received only $9,583.33 for his grocery shop, which was acquired with vacant possession. It is a common practice in Singapore that if you sell your house with vacant possession, the value of the property is always higher than if it is encumbered, everything being equal. But in this case the reverse is true. I can vouch that everything is equal in this particular case that I have mentioned, whether in terms of land area or condition of the buildings. But unfortunately in terms of compensation, the owner is worse off than the tenants by about $6,000. Mr Speaker, Sir, in view of the glaring anomaly, I respectfully request the Minister concerned to look into this matter and see that justice is not only done but must be seen to be done to the aggrieved party. 5.39 p.m.

Sir, the three properties referred to by the Member for Bras Basah were Nos. 7, 9 and 11 Holloway Lane, which were acquired for urban redevelopment purposes. They all belonged to one land owner. Premises Nos. 7 and 11 were tenanted by a bookshop and an association respectively, whilst No. 9 was occupied by the ex-owner himself. The total award was $28,750 paid to the land owner for his three properties, and was based on encumbered values for No. 7 ($5,750) and No. 11 ($ 7,280) and a much higher vacant possession value for No. 9 ($15,720), which are the two distinct issues raised in the Member's query. Under the Act compensation is paid to persons having a legal interest in the acquired properties, that is to say, the landowner or lessee. Computation of compensation will be governed by the prevailing market value, which must be higher in the case of premises where vacant possession can be given by the landowner than in the case of premises which are tenanted, especially premises which are rent-controlled. An unencumbered award under the Act takes into account encumbrances and tenancies, which are liabilities to the acquiring authorities and for which exgratia resettlement benefits or compensation (such as HDB shops at concessional rents or cash grants ranging from $5,000 to $15,000) have to be given to the displaced occupiers in accordance with the current resettlement policy. In the particular case raised by the Member, an offer has been made by the Resettlement Department of a shop with a flat above provided the landowner refunded the sum of $10,000 from the award made to him, which was based on vacant possession value. It is understood that the Member's constituent is still considering the offer.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, if the complainant refunds the sum of $10,000, then the position is that the house is not acquired with vacant possession. It would be acquisition with an encumbrance. That being the case, then the tenants and the sub-tenants must be offered alternative accommodation, because the land is encumbered. In this case, the tenants have not been offered alternative accommodation. So they arc waiting to find out whether upon the refund of $10,00() the HDB will be willing to offer them alternative accommodation.

Sir, I think it is better that this matter is settled outside the House. To debate the matter further in this House will not get us anywhere. Raising a particular case, I think, is better done by correspondence, unless this is on general policy.

In view of the reply, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. 5.45 p.m.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head S be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BEA l107*. (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Ho Kah Leong). Sir, I would be very grateful if the Minister could enlighten this House of the policy on agricultural land, with special reference to the Bedok resettlement area. I would like to know whether the policy has been changed recently, and if so, what are the changes. Recently, the Land Office has been issuing about 60 notices to repossess lands which are either leased or occupied by Temporary Occupation Licences. The occupants received the notice of repossession from the Land Office. This notice creates great anxiety and concern among these people over their future. I share the same view with the Member for Paya Lebar and the Member for Jalan Kayu that in any exercise of repossession or eviction, the Members of Parliament are kept in the dark. When these people received these notices they approached me but I was unable to explain to them and I had to write to the Parliamentary Secretary (National Development) for an explanation. Sir, this state of affairs must be remedied. Previously there were a number of cases of repossession of land. The usual procedure was that the Land Office would send out their land inspectors to go round and inspect the site. If the land inspectors found that the land was not being utilised for vegetable growing or farming, they would issue a letter warning them that if they did not do any farming or vegetable planting, their land would be repossessed. The inspectors did not find out the actual reasons why the licensees did not farm the land. It might be that salt water had seeped into the land and they could not plant any vegetables. But these people obeyed the warning of the land inspectors and resumed their farming. But after a month they were again issued with another notice stating that their land would be repossessed. Sir, it is rather unfair on the part of the Land Office, if there is a major change in policy, the MP should at least be given a chance to know about it so that he can be equipped with answers if he is approached by his constituents. I hope the Minister will investigate into these irregularities.

(In Mandarin): Sir, as a Member of Parliament from a rural constituency, it is my duty to reflect in this House to the Minister concerned the various difficulties, hardships and grievances of the rural people. On this basis I would like to endorse the views expressed by my colleagues from other rural constituencies, because I too have come across similar problems as they have. Perhaps the Minister might not understand the situation in the rural areas as well as we do, and therefore it is our duty to point out to him the various difficulties so that he would be able to direct his officers to handle the problems of the rural people in a proper manner. It is my belief that a kindhearted Minister like the one we have now would certainly do so, because every time I write to him he will personally reply to me and for that I am very grateful indeed. Some other Ministers, or even Parliamentary Secretaries for that matter, do not regard Members of Parliament with due respect. Whatever letters they receive from the MPs, they will direct their officers to reply instead. I would like to inform time Minister that there are some unauthorised structures in the rural areas. MPs from rural constituencies will share my view that there is no place in a rural area without any unauthorised structures. Why should there be unauthorised structures in the first place? Therefore, we have to get down to the root cause of the appearance of these unauthorised structures. Only then would we be able to handle the problem with consideration and sympathy, instead of ordering them about like criminals - asking them to demolish their unauthorised structures within 24 hours or within a specified period, and if they fail to comply, action would be taken to demolish such unauthorised structures and to charge them the cost of demolition. Sir, we know that in rural areas there is always a need to renovate old buildings or to repair old structures. And sometimes because the family is increasing there is need to extend the building to accommodate the family. In my constituency there are cases where 20 people live in a small attap house. In the circumstances, there is always a need to put up a lean-to to provide an extra room to accommodate the increasing number of people in the family, or some partition may be required to make another room. If such alterations or lean-to are discovered by the Land Office, they will be regarded as Unauthorised structures and action will be taken to demolish them. The demolition squad does not come from the Land Office alone; the Building Control Division as well as the Primary Production Department also take part in the demolition process. I have seen notices served by the Primary Production Department to the rural people to demolish their unauthorised structures. So the poor rural people are confronted with three big Government departments. Sir, I would like to suggest to the Minister that the Land Office should handle such cases with great sympathy and consideration. They should make a distinc tion between the various cases. If the so-called unauthorised structures are put up under extenuating circumstances in which the people concerned have no alternative but to add to, change or alter their existing structures, then proper guidance should be given to regularise the unauthorised structures instead of just issuing a notice to demolish. But where unauthorised structures have been put up for profit-making, then no sympathy can be expected from Members of Parliament. I am sure the people concerned will have nothing to say if such unauthorised structures are pulled down. The next matter I would like to raise concerns absence of records in the Land Office of existing old buildings. There are cases of people who have been living in old buildings for many years. When the Land Office discovers that such a building is not on its record, a demolition order is issued. In such cases the Member of Parliament or members of the Citizens' Consultative Committee can certify the existence of these old buildings although they are not on record in the Land Office. But such certification and representation by the MP and CCC are not considered at all. As a result, the poor rural people have to live on the roadside. I think liberal consideration should be given to such cases. I would therefore urge the Minister once again to consider sympathetically such representations by the MPs and CCCs, or even from the rural people themselves.

Sir, the Member for Changi has not only been beating about the bush but he has also been rather unfair to me when he said that he was not informed of what was happening in the Bedok resettlement area. Unless he has got a poor memory, I informed him on 25th October, 1974, of Government's decision to recover vacant and under-utilised land in this area amounting to a total of about 47 acres. As the Member is aware, a survey of land utilisation in that area had shown that there had been widespread breaches of the terms and conditions of their leases and the Temporary Occupation Licences issued to the settlers. It is Government's intention to recover such under-utilised vacant land from the lessees who had breached these terms and to use this land for the relocation of cottage industries and other appropriate uses. 6.00 p.m. Out of a total of 58 cases affected in this exercise, 39 were previously on 16-year agriculture leases and 19 were on TOLs. Notices to revert the whole of the land to agricultural use, in accordance with the terms and conditions of the leases, were served on the 39 lessees in November, 1974, and on failure to do so within an agreed period the Land Office would formally repossess the land on 31st January this year. The Land Office has, however, not yet taken physical occupation of the repossessed land nor served notices on the ex-lessees to vacate the land. In the case of TOL holders, notices of termination of licences were served in December, 1974, and the land repossessed from 1st January, 1975. In the case of those whose TOLs had terminated, the following action has been taken. Licensees who are required to give up part of the land have been so informed, and site plans have been sent to them showing the portion of the land to be recovered. They have been told that they could retain the balance of the land on fresh licences, the terms and conditions of which would be made known later. Where the entire holding has been repossessed, licensees have been told that they would be advised in due course whether alternative accommodation would be given. They have been informed that no compensation would be paid for ancillary structures, crops, etc, which they should remove from the land immediately. Ex-licensees who have, in violation of TOL conditions, allowed other occupiers to operate factories, workshops and holdings have been informed that the Land Office had resumed possession of the land, and the actual occupants have been told not to pay any further rent to the ex-licensees. The Land Office would then issue separate TOLs to occupiers who would, be allowed to continue operating their factories and workshops. The Resettlement Department is presently investigating to find out whether occupiers or dwellers on land recovered, which, were held previously under lease or TOLs should be, given alternative accommodation. Resettlement questions are still under study by the Resettlement Department. No workshops or industries have yet been moved into the area. I can assure the Member that consideration will be given to regularise existing non-agricultural uses which can be tolerated on the basis of revised TOLs. But no compensation will be paid for ancillary structures or crops found on the land to be recovered, as the owners have been given ample time to remove such structures or crops. I believe that the Land Office had informed the Member for Changi on most of the matters which I have set out in a letter dated 20th February, 1975. The Member for Jurong has spoken generally about resettlement, and he has complained about the Land Office. According to him, we must be more human towards cases of families growing bigger and extensions made to accommodate them. As is usual, if only repairs are done to the premises, nothing happens. But when a structure is enlarged, then the land bailiffs will be on them either asking for more premiums or demanding that the unauthorised alterations are pulled down. These are matters on which, as far as possible, we try to be as humane as ever. But when extensions are made and other families move in, then we have no alternative but to take action. Usually TOLs are granted to the persons in actual occupation so as to prevent the chief licensee making money out of subleasing TOL land to the persons in actual occupation.

(In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir just now I raised the point about old structures and the absence of such records in the Land Office It is possible that these records could have been lost or mislaid But if Members of Parliament or member of the Citizens' Consultative Committee :could certify as to the long-standing existence of such houses, I wonder whether sympathetic consideration can be given to prevent the demolition of these structures.

Sir, consideration is being given to such cases. However, the members of the CCC and some of the MPs are new, and some of the houses may be even older. But if someone occupies land on TOL from the Land Office, it is usually known. It would be on record as to whether it is a house or what kind of a building is there. If it is private land there may be no record, but if it is Government land let out on Temporary Occupation Licence the record is there to say what type of structure is on it. But in doubtful cases we would have to consider them. If the MP has been there for many years, and if he certifies its existence we will take his word for it. But, as I have said, even the CCC started only in 1964. Of course, ten years have passed, but they might claim that the house is 20 years old.

(In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister said just now that applications for repairs to houses would be given sympathetic consideration. I would like to know whether in the case where the land is private land and the landowner refuses to approve or endorse the application for repairs, I would like to know whether the repairs can still be carried out.

Yes, they can. If they are structural alterations to the house, then the occupier must get the landowner's permission. But if it is just a case of repairs, he can get the Department's approval, not necessarily the owner's approval.

Sir, I think the Minister is mistaken when he said that I was being unfair to him by saying that he did not tell me about the project that was going on in the Bedok resettlement. Perhaps the officers who briefed the Minister could have made the mistake. The first case of repossession of land was at Lorong Dangai and Koh Sek Lim. But I was referring to a very recent case which was not acquired for the Bedok resettlement purposes. In this case the notice is for repossession of the TOL land and the lessees who have been there for 16 years were from the Paya Lebar International Airport. That is why I am asking the Minister that whenever such an exercise is to be carried out, the MPs should be informed beforehand, as was the case with the first repossession of land in Lorong Dangai and Koh Sek Lim.

As far as my memory goes, the MP was informed before we took one step. And when the Government made the decision, I told him personally.

That was the first case. This is the second one.

The Member for Changi cannot expect to be told of every little thing that goes on in his constituency. Of course, we give him advice, otherwise he will have 20 or 30 persons running to the PAP branch to disturb his Saturday nights. But I cannot inform him of every little thing that goes on in his constituency. Wherever possible, we give MPs advance notice so that they know what to tell the people.

Sir, I am still not satisfied with the Minister's answer, and I would like the Minister to refer this particular case to his officers. Anyway, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head S be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead CAA 11O5*. (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Ong Teng Cheong). Sir, at present there are many people living in attap houses in the rural or suburban areas. Some of them have applied for HDB flats. In the meantime before flats are allotted to them, they have applied for permission to repair their attap houses, but the landowners did not give their approval. In his reply to the Member for Jurong just now, the Minister said that even if landowners did not give their approval for repairs, the village dwellers could carry on with the necessary repairs. So I think half of my problem has been solved. I understand that these attap houses may not last for another 10 or 20 years. Now if there are people who live in dilapidated attap houses, can they be given priority for HDB flats? Again, if after these attap house dwellers have moved in to the HDB flats, would the authorities put such attap houses in the category of premises which cannot be rented or sold? If so, I think the landlord or the attap house owner may not be too unreasonable or cruel to the tenant by refusing him permission to repair or attempting to evict him. This would be good to both landowner and tenant so that the landowner would not be overbearing on the tenant or not allowing him to do this or that. 6.15 p.m. Sir, we all know that many people who live in very clean HDB fiats have applied for larger flats because their families have grown bigger, and their applications have been approved. What 1 regret is that the Government or the HDB has approved such applications. HDB flat dwellers are allowed to apply for bigger flats whereas the attap house dwellers who do not have a decent accommodation are not given priority for flats. So I hope the Minister can give special consideration to the attap house dwellers.

Sir, I shall wait until the Minister has replied to the Member for Paya Lebar.

It will probably be more convenient, Sir, if I deal with one Member at a time. The Member for Paya Lebar wants priority to be given for all dwellers of attap houses which are about to fall down. This will lead to complications because more people will move into houses that are dilapidated or attap houses that are about to fall down. He wonders why we allow people to move from one-room to two-room or three-room flats - the answer is that the families have grown bigger. When they move into a bigger flat, the smaller flat is available for the accommodation of some other family. That follows the law. When the poor attap house dweller extends his house without permission, then he is breaking the law and either the Land Office or the Building Control Division serves him with a notice. Sir, it does not mean that dwellers of attap houses are not granted priority. Where the Government has acquired the land for some purpose and wishes to demolish these attap houses, they arc given alternative accommodation provided they are eligible. But for the Government to grant priority o, accommodation to attap house dwellers on land which belongs to a private developer, Government will be only helping the private developers. Surely the Member does not consider that desirable - I take it that his suggestion is that every attap house dweller must be given priority.

(In Mandarin): Sir, if we give priority to dwellers of dilapidated attap houses, it does not mean that when these families move out, their houses cannot be used any more even if they are on private land. I believe the Government can resort to the provisions of the Land Acquisition Act to acquire the land. That is a very simple way to solve the problem, and it will not give the private landowners any opportunity to speculate. Is that not quite right?

Sir, the Member may be right if he wants us to acquire all the land in Singapore. We have acquired large portions of land in Singapore and the landowners are getting a bit tired of our acquisition.

Sir, there have been grouses and complaints about unreasonable charges and fees which one has to pay to the various Government departments and regulatory agencies in the Ministry concerned when he submits his application for development, alterations and renovation works, etc. First of all, he has to pay a processing fee to the Development Control Division, and this fee was introduced, I believe, sometime early last year, or perhaps a bit earlier. At the same time, he has to pay another similar processing fee to the Urban Redevelopment Authority in respect of car parking requirements. The Minister may perhaps recall that when the Urban Redevelopment Authority was first established in April, 1974, it introduced an exorbitant charge or fee on car parking requirements which must be paid by the applicants before the applications could be considered by the Authority. These car parking charges often amount to thousands of dollars, and in some instances up to hundreds of thousands of dollars. This has created a lot of unhappiness and had discouraged some would-be investors in proceeding with their development projects. After numerous complaints, these unpopular car parking charges were then waived and replaced later by a nominal processing fee to the satisfaction of most people concerned. Sir, besides the above, there are other fees to be paid, for example, plan fees, consent fees, search fees and other fees. Even to look at the Master Plan at the counter on the 3rd floor of the Ministry of National Development building, a $2, fee is levied. I understand, Sir, that some charges and fees have to be levied in order to prevent or discourage abuses of the services provided. But they must be reasonable. I only wish to urge the Minister to review the charges and fees currently chargeable by the various departments and statutory bodies in his Ministry, and to disallow further introduction of new levies unless they have been carefully examined and proved to be reasonable and absolutely necessary. An hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Sir, I also wish to request the Minister to consider waiving the current charges or fees in respect of reapplications or resubmissions which are necessitated by changes in Government policies and standards or due to the necessity to comply with departmental requirements.

Sir, the levy of fees for the processing of planning applications was introduced in January, 1974, in line with the policy that any service that is provided should not be free of charge. This is not just the policy of the Ministry of National Development. It has been found that, with the introduction of processing fees, architects have taken greater care in the submission of proper designs and layouts. The developers also have been more definite, as any subsequent amendment would entail payment of further processing fees. The introduction of these fees has, in fact, cut down the number of frivolous and speculative applications. But, as the Member has rightly pointed out, sometimes this can be taken too far. Where another fee has to be paid because the developer has to send in amended plans to comply with Government's requirements, then I am inclined to agree with the Member that the second fee should not be charged. These are matters which 1 am grateful to the Member for raising in this House and which I promise him will be given every consideration.

(In Mandarin): Sir, in view of the clear explanation of the Minister, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment (5). Mr Ng Kah Ting is not moving. Mr Baptist.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head S be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead CCA 1109*. (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Ng Kah Ting) Sir, under the Land Titles (Strata) Act, Part IV, (Management of the Building and the Management Corporation) it is mandatory for the proprietor or subsidiary proprietors to establish a management corporation upon registration of the strata title plan. Among the duties and responsibilities of the management corporation is the maintenance of all common properties. This is usually done by a council elected from among the subsidiary proprietors of the management corporation. Of course, the money required to maintain the property is paid by each subsidiary proprietor of the management corporation. This is in the form of maintenance fees collected monthly, half-yearly or yearly as the management corporation decides. The amount is also decided by the corporation. The Government, I am sure, is well aware that there is always difficulty in obtaining payments from individuals and so many laws have been enacted to ensure such payments. This difficulty is also faced by management corporations. However, unlike Government, management corporations have no power to ensure payments of maintenance fees. There is, of course, a possibility of management corporations resorting to legal action. But, as is well known, this is time-consuming, protracted and costly. Simple folk live in strata land, and it is hardly worth the additional cost and time to recover maintenance fees which generally is no more than $25 to $50 per mensem. 6.30 p.m. What is most depressing is that although Government has made it mandatory to have management corporations formed, Government is not bothered to ensure that management corporations function effectively. To function effectively, a major necessity will be to ensure the easy collection of maintenance fees. Members serving on the council of management corporations usually do so on a gratis basis. Most of them are wage earners and have very little time at their disposal to enable them, if given the power, to go round soliciting fees from subsidiary proprietors. I must again stress that since Government introduced this legislation for the formation of management corporations, powers should be given to the Building and Common Properties Maintenance and Management Unit to take action against subsidiary proprietors who fail to make the required maintenance payments. Penalties such as fines should be introduced to enable the management corporations to speedily recover maintenance fees due to them so that properly maintained properties will ensure a cleaner and greener Singapore.

Sir, under the Land Titles (Strata) Act, owners of flats registered under the Act are automatically formed into a management corporation. The corporation is required to elect a management council to perform duties and conduct business on behalf of the corporation. The corporation is required among other things to control, manage and administer the common property and to establish a fund for such purpose. It is empowered to levy contributions from all the owners. If any contributor is at default, this can be recovered as a civil debt by the management corporation. Some management corporations have been unwilling to take court action against recalcitrant owners because of the reasons set out by the hon. Member for Potong Pasir. There is now a proposal in the Land Titles (Strata) (Amendment) Bill to make it an offence if the subsidiary owner fails to pay or make his contribution. I hope this measure will succeed. But I can assure the Member that if it is the Government that passes legislation to form management corporations, then, of course, it is our business to make them work.

Sir, when will this Bill be presented to Parliament?

If not during this Sitting, it will be soon after.

Sir, the Minister says that since Government is introducing this legislation, it will ensure that this legislation when passed will empower management corporations with tools to succeed. On the tone of his reply then, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment (6). Mr P. Govindaswamy is not here. Haji Mohd. Ariff Bin Suradi.

(In Malay): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head S be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead CDA 1105*. (*The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs P. Govindaswamy and Ho Kah Leong) Sir, I discover that certain roads which have been constructed to public standard are far from satisfactory. Roads like Lorong Marican, Lorong Marzuki, Lorong Malayu, Lorong Mydin, Jalan Ishak, Jalan Daud and others, which were built according to public standard, already have potholes within a short space of five years. If these roads had been constructed according to specifications, surely they would not be so badly damaged within such a short time. The construction of these roads was the responsibility of the owners of land fronting the road. They were obliged, to pay to the PWD for the construction of these roads. On rainy days water, is collected in these potholes. On such occasions the dwellers feel that instead of getting benefits for the money .they have paid for such facilities, they have to suffer. They are dissatisfied and angry because water is splashed on them when vehicles pass by. Ever since Changi Road, from Still Road to Geylang, was made a one-way street, these roads have been used as shortcuts for vehicular traffic heading towards Paya Lebar. Lorries, motor cars and buses all use these roads. Jumbo buses heading towards Jalan Eunos and Kaki Bukit terminus from Changi Road depot also use these roads. As a result these roads, already damaged' and deteriorating with potholes, become even more congested, especially during the morning and afternoon rush hours. I wish to know whether proper supervision had been carried out when these roads were constructed, and whether the contractors had built the roads according to the correct specifications. .1 hope the Minister for Law, and National Development would contact the Minister concerned to ask the Traffic Police not to allow' vehicles to pass through Lorong Marzuki, Lorong Malayu and Lorong Mydin by putting up "No Entry" signs along Changi Road at the entrances to these roads so that they do not get any worse and there will not be any traffic congestion in the morning and afternoon.

Mr Barker, as the matters raised seem to be local in nature, would you like to reply first before I call upon Mr Ho Kah Leong?

Yes, Sir. The Member complained about several roads in his constituency which were built sometime ago. I do not know the exact reasons why they have deteriorated, but the matter will be looked into and the roads put' into proper order again. Generally there has been so much digging in Singapore. There were complaints last year about roads and road surfaces and we had a whole island programme to resurface and recondition most of our major roads. I was shocked to learn that in the course of the financial year some departments were going to dig up about 80% of our roads, leaving only 20% untouched, scattered all over. It is no use reconditioning and resurfacing our roads, which cost so much money, and then having either the PUB or the STB moving in to dig. On the other hand, if no roads are dug up it means that development in Singapore has come to a full stop! It is because of more houses and more factories that more water pipes and more electric cables have to be laid. As the Minister in charge of roads, I feel disgusted when half the whole stretch of a road is dug up just to lay a 50-foot diameter pipe, which takes nearly one-third of' the road. That done, a couple of months later they do it on the' other side of the road. I have given directions that an intensified programme to improve our roads be instituted,, and because taxes on motor cars using the roads have gone up I do not expect any difficulty in getting the necessary finance from - the Minister for Finance. . As for the suggestion to make the lorongs a one-way street or to put up "No entry" signs so that lorries and jumbo buses cannot use some of the roads that are close to the heart of the Member for Kampung Kembangan, I can only tell him that we will look into this possibility and let him have the answer later.

(In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, under this subhead I would like to ask the Minister a few questions. As we all know, Jurong Town is the largest industrial town in our country. There are about 500 factories and the working population number about 100,000. But of all the roads leading into Jurong Town, only one is a main road and that is Jalan Ahmad Ibrahim. Therefore, there is bad congestion during peak hours and even during non-peak hours. Although the factories in Jurong have staggered their working hours in answer to the Ministry of Communications' request, traffic congestion there is still not alleviated. I think the Member for Bukit Panjang can confirm this because he is working there. So I would like to ask the Minister what plans are there to build other roads leading into Jurong Town. If it is just a question of expanding Jalan Ahmad Ibrahim, it will not solve the matter. At the moment at the mouth of Jurong River there is a bridge built by a contractor. The bridge links up Jalan Buroh and Jalan Penjuru, and the other road along the west coast. I would like to ask the Minister whether he will permit vehicular traffic to make use of the bridge built by this contractor. I feel that the bridge must be strong enough because it has been used by lorries to carry earth. If the PWD thinks that the bridge is not strong enough, then I would like to ask whether this department has any plan to build other bridges. In my opinion this bridge is very useful in helping to solve the traffic problem in Jurong. 6.45 p.m. Another question is in regard to traffic lights. A request has been made to the authority concerned for the installation of traffic lights along Corporation Drive at the junction of Yung Kuang Road. Up to now, there are still no lights. I would like to know whether traffic lights will be installed there and at the junction because traffic accidents have occurred there.

Sir, the last question first. At the moment, the junction at Corporation Drive and Yung Kuang Road is controlled by stop lines and stop signs. At Yung Kuang Road, which is a minor road, traffic lights will be installed at this junction during this year. As for the bridge in question, it was built by a JTC contractor in 1970 for its earthwork contract. On completion of the contract, the central pontoon stand of the temporary bridge was removed last December. In fact, JTC is in the process of dismantling the rest of this temporary bridge. I am not in charge of JTC, but I understand the Member has suggested that we build another bridge. Is that correct?

Yes.

We will look into it. As for major roads leading to or out of Jurong Town, there are no plans at present. There have been complaints of traffic jams within Jurong Town and of traffic congestion along the approach road, Upper Ayer Rajah Road, leading to Jurong Town during peak hours, especially when ice-skaters are on their way to the rink. The PWD is now widening Upper Ayer Rajah Road to a six-lane carriageway to ease traffic congestion. The work is expected to be completed in October this year. The other bottlenecks on the approach road to Jurong Town are at the Ayer Rajah/Clementi Road Circus and Jurong Town Circus. The conversion of the former into a traffic light controlled intersection is in progress and is expected to be completed by the end of June. The PWD is also looking into a similar conversion of the Jurong Town Circus.

(In Malay): Sir, in view of the explanation and assurance by the Minister, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

6.50 p.m. Resolved, "That notwithstanding the Standing Orders, progress be reported and leave asked to sit again."-[Mr E. W. Barker]. Thereupon Mr Deputy Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Main and Development Estimates of Expenditure for the financial year 1st April, 1975 to 31st March, 1976 and ask leave to sit again on Monday. 24th March, 1975.

So be it.

Resolved, "That Parliament do now adjourn."-[Mr E. W. Barker]. Adjourned accordingly at Eight minutes to Seven o'clock p.m.