Hansard, 1980-03-21

Order read for resumed consideration in Committee of Supply [4th Allotted Day].

Resolved, "That Head K, Ministry of Defence, and Head X, Ministry of Trade and Industry, be considered immediately before Head J, Ministry of Culture." - [Mr Chua Sian Chin].

Pursuant to the resolution of the Committee, a schedule (Cols. 1287 - 1288) of the revised times for the remaining allotted days for discussion of the Main and Development Estimates will be circulated to hon. Members. schedule - MAIN AND DEVELOPMENT ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITURE FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR 1ST APRIL, 1980 TO 31ST MARCH, 1981 (Cols. 1287 - 1288) Head I -

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head I be reduced by $10 in respect of Object Group 1100 of Subhead Code IA-01 of the Main Estimates. Sir, the Hon. Minister has informed the House that it would take more than a decade to complete the Mass Rapid Transit system. Hence, for the next ten years or so, Singaporeans have to rely on either private transport, taxis or buses as a means of land transport. Sir, the Hon. Minister for Communications seems a mild mannered person, but this is deceptive. Judging by his actions of late, he can be an aggressive Minister. He is determined to succeed in his car population control policy and, towards that objective, he has surreptitiously over the years injected car population control pills into Singaporeans who would otherwise produce, I mean buy, more cars. The enormous increases in registration fees, additional registration fees, road taxes and other measures are bitter pills to swallow, but Singaporeans have to, if they want to own cars. I hope, however, that the Hon. Minister will not introduce more increases in taxes in the near future. Sir, the Hon. Minister has over the years focused his attention on one side of the coin. He has looked at the problem of traffic congestion on our roads but, unfortunately, he has ignored the other side, namely, an efficient transport system for Singaporeans. I wish the Hon. Minister would give equal attention to this problem. In this respect, the SBS may be an alternative efficient system. But they need to improve their services and facilities for the bus commuters. There have to be improvements in a number of areas, I would like to list some of them. 1. The SBS buses must be spacious and comfortable. At the moment there are too many old buses, and congestion is frequent. 2. There should be more buses to provide greater frequency for various services. Presently, queues of people have to wait for various services. 3. More and better bus shelters and bus stops must be provided. A case in point is Ang Mo Kio Now Town along Avenues 3 and 8. There are no bus shelters at all along those two long stretches of road. Bus commuters have to brave the sun and rain in order to take the buses. 4. Separate bus services should be provided for school children, especially during the hours before and after school. Separate bus stops should also be provided for the school children. I have seen groups of children crowding the bus stops and rushing to catch the buses. Often, the school children have to stand on the main road to wait for the buses. I dread what will happen if an unattentive bus driver were to crash the bus into them. 5. A bus interchange with facilities for the convenience of commuters should be built in every new town. The case of Ang Mo Kio has already been brought up to the attention of the Hon. Minister. Members of the House need to observe only the crowd of people waiting for buses outside Block 322, Ang Mo Kio, to see the terrible condition of the temporary terminal. I hope the Minister will act speedily to build the interchange. 6. Last but not least, the bus drivers and conductors should be more courteous. Some bus drivers drive recklessly, fail to stop at bus stops, overtake at high speed, brake suddenly, weave in and out of the traffic, and so on. Such a driver is a menace on the road. Sir, more and more Singaporeans will have to turn to the SBS to provide them with an efficient means of transport. However, many improvements have to be made before this is possible. I hope the Hon. Minister will see to it that the SBS shows improvements at least in those areas that I have outlined above.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I share the sentiments expressed by my colleague, the Member for Serangoon Gardens. I wish to draw the attention of the Hon. Minister to another problem, that is, noise pollution. Sir, the price hike on motor cars and the inadequacy of public transport have driven many people to buy motor-cycles. Soon our roads will be crowded with such vehicles. The end result will be the unbearable noise of motor-cycle engines. This irritating noise at the moment is getting more and more pronounced everyday. Sir, since we are so conscious of keeping our environment as pleasant as possible, the pollution, caused by this noise which is seriously detrimental to our otherwise tranquil environment, cannot be overlooked. I wonder whether the Minister has any measures in mind to curb the noise produced by motor-cycles. Perhaps it may be necessary to insist or compel the installation of a noise suppressor or a special silencer to the exhaust pipes of motor-cycles. May I have the Minister's comments on this matter?

( In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, over the past few years the Ministry of Communications has implemented several measures, such as increasing the road tax and additional registration fees in an attempt to curb the increase in the number of cars on the road. These measures have been effective for a time in preventing the number of cars from increasing rapidly as it would, if allowed to go unchecked, pose serious problems of traffic congestion. In this respect, credit must be given to the Ministry of Communications. However, in the past one or two years the standard of living of our people has risen and their incomes have also increased. As such, it has become the desire of many people to own a car as a means of transport. This has resulted in the number of cars registered last year to reach a peak of 140,000. As we all know, the space on our public roads is limited and we cannot accommodate more and more cars with the limited space available. The ever-increasing road tax and additional registration fees (ARF) are not the most effective measures to curb the increase in the number of vehicles. From the statistics available to us, we know that the number of cars registered in 1978 was 136,000 and by 31st September, 1979, the number had risen to 143,000. This goes to show that with increased incomes our people are prepared to bear the burden of higher road taxes and ARF. Thus, the number of cars on the road keeps on growing. With this trend, traffic congestion will certainly become a big problem for the Ministry of Communications to solve. Sir, in order to effectively curb the increase in the number of cars, I would suggest that legislation be introduced to impose a higher down-payment for cars on hire-purchase. In this way, those who have only a few thousand dollars to spare will be discouraged from buying cars. On the other hand, the Ministry of Communications may consider introducing the quota system for the registration of new cars. Under this system, registration of cars may be entertained on a first-come first-served basis. Once the quota is filled, no more new cars should be accepted for registration. In this way the number of cars will be effectively kept under control. Another suggestion I would like to make is to impose a ban on motor car advertisements just as we have prohibited the adver- tisement of cigarettes to discourage smoking. Without the advertisement of motor cars in our newspapers, the desire to own a car will be lessened and the people will not be encouraged to buy cars. Otherwise it would seem that while we adopt a policy of discouraging ownership of motor cars, we are on the other hand tempting the people to buy motor cars through advertisements in the cinemas and newspapers. Moreover, I hope that the Ministry of Communications would take further steps to improve the public transport system so that car owners will be encouraged to take public transport instead of driving their own cars. Since the proposed MRT may take some time to build, the number of buses and taxis should be increased to meet the demand of the motorists who are willing to give up driving. 2.45 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to seek some information from the Hon. Minister and to offer a couple of suggestions for his consideration. Stage One of the bus plan for Telok Blangah was implemented in December 1979. This brought some joy to the residents of Telok Blangah in the Depot Road area. In his answer to my oral question on 11th December 1979, the Hon. Minister mentioned that the full new bus plan is expected to be completed by the middle of 1980 with the completion of the bus interchange. Would the Hon. Minister please inform the House as to the progress of the planned implementation of this new bus service which would greatly facilitate transportation for my constituents? Sir, SBS has shown signs of improvement in its services and as it gets more and more expensive to travel by other means of transport, I envisage that more people will travel by bus. It is also in SBS interest to encourage more commuters. For this reason, would the Hon. Minister consider the issue of a monthly season ticket for regular commuters? I understand that special bus passes are issued to shareholders. Since not everyone can be an SBS shareholder for various reasons, a monthly season ticket would be welcomed as it may be cheaper than buying single trip ticket, especially for multiple trips. This will assist not only the SBS but will also contribute to a general improvement all round. For instance, the bus conductors or drivers need not handle tickets. Singapore would be spared the litter of used tickets, and this would encourage more people to travel by bus than by car. While waiting for the new bus plan to be implemented and even after its implementation, I suggest a car pooling bay be introduced in Telok Blangah. This would enable symbiotic relationship to be generated between the motorist and his passenger because car pooling is mutually beneficial. This will also promote neighbourliness. I notice that the experimental car pooling station in Marine Parade is well received. Of course, a necessary study would need to be done to decide where this car pooling bay should be located in Telok Blangah. In this respect, the Residents Committees and the CCC could assist in this study.

The Member for Khe Bong has an amendment on the same subhead. Would you like to speak now?

Sir, I would like to speak on the subject of the proposed MRT system for Singapore. It appears that our Government is lacking in self-confidence on the building of the MRT because it is worried whether the cost can be recovered within a specified number of years. The authorities concerned have made strenuous efforts to improve our traffic conditions all these years. But a careful study will reveal that the measures taken are only stop-gap measures and not permanent solutions. The reason why I am talking about finding a permanent solution to the traffic problem is that I foresee by the mid-80's, that Singapore's population will be very much more than the present 2.2 million. By then, Singapore's trade will be a more thriving one and the number of ships in our port will be greater. She may even become the centre of ASEAN external trade. This is because of Singapore's geographical position. Singapore has grown in importance as a result of the tussle for supremacy among the three world powers. By the mid-80's, Singapore's land transport will have become so busy that the question will arise whether or not the existing zebra crossings, highway code and the traffic rules and regulations aimed at restricting vehicular movement will still be effective in easing traffic congestion and reducing road accidents. This is why it is necessary for us to make an overall plan now to improve the land transport system of a greater Singapore. In order to make provision for the development of a city of six to seven million people in a greater Singapore in future, we should now quickly build an MRT system to alleviate traffic congestion. The existing land transport system in Singapore has been utilised to its saturation point and there is no way to increase its efficiency. Hence the one and only way to solve the problem is to construct an underground railway. Mr Speaker, Sir, underground railways have been in use in Asia and Japan for a long time. Hong Kong adopted this system recently. Singapore is very interested in this system and intends to follow suit. But it is worried as to whether the cost can be recovered within a specified number of years. Nevertheless, Sir, in the interest of the people of greater Singapore in the future, it is advisable for us to be farsighted and bold enough to lay down a strong foundation for the construction of a transport system. This will be more beneficial, with less trouble and money saved, than to implement some stop-gap measures. Sir, a further point is that when the Government embarks on an undertaking and makes a financial commitment, it is concerned only with how it will benefit the people and what improvement it will bring to society as a whole. So long as the money is well spent, it can go ahead with the project. The Government is assured of peace of mind so long as the money is used for the benefit of the people. This is different from investment. Investment is a business enterprise which is primarily concerned with the recouping of the capital within a given period and the reaping of profits thereafter. Otherwise it does not make good business sense. Sir, admittedly the underground railway is very costly because it is a colossal project. However, for the greater prosperity of the country in keeping with the expected growth of extra-regional trade of ASEAN in the future and for speedier land transport for our people, the money should be spent. It is worth while, I believe that given the shrewdness and acumen of our present political leadership, the project will definitely become viable against the background of the growing prosperity and political stability of Singapore, for the simple reason that with the steady increase in our population, the underground railway will be used more and more by the people. Sir, the Japanese are known to be the shrewdest businessmen in the world. As they have much confidence in our distant political and economic prospects, they have made a huge investment in the development of a petrochemical complex on an offshore island as a joint venture with Singapore. In the circumstances, can we be lacking in self-confidence? Sir, in traffic improvement, passive reorganisation and punitive measures will yield very little result. A well-run MRT system will make available a convenient, fast and safe means of transport to the greater prosperity of our people. Only the develop- ment of the MRT system would provide the basic solution. Let us hope that the authorities concerned will make an in-depth study of the project and then move ahead with the greatest determination to bring about a long and lasting solution for the benefit of the people of Singapore.

Thank you, Mr Speaker, Sir, for giving me this opportunity to take part in this debate. I have the following points to make with regard to the increase in road tax recently. Sir, the increase in the CBD area licensing fee from $4 to $5 per day for private motor vehicles and from $8 to $10 for 'Q' cars cannot be justified as, at present during the peak hours, traffic still flows smoothly into the CBD. There are no signs of congestion. In fact, if there is any increase in vehicular traffic into the CBD, it is from commercial vehicles only. I would like to know the number of CBD licences sold at the beginning of 1979, before the rise in the number of cars on the road, and at the end of December 1979 when the car population is supposed to have increased by 3%. Sir, the increase in cars is due to the fact that car purchasers now do not offer scrap cars to enjoy the PAR F, since the difference between PARF and ARF is too small, especially for cars below 1,500 cc. As company cars are not eligible for PARF, therefore most companies do not scrap their cars but continue to add to their fleet. If company cars are eligible for PARF, we are confident that the growth in 'Q' cars can be controlled. At present, the number of 'Q' cars does not show an increase because more and more owners are registering their cars for private ownership. Sir, if the increase in registration fees from $15 to $1,000 for a private car and $5,000 for a company registered vehicle is meant to restrict the growth of vehicles, then we support this increase. But existing car owners should not be penalised by paying the increase in road taxes which is extremely high for those cars between the 2000 and 3000 cc group where the increase is 40%. Sir, the present facility of providing civil servants with car loans at low interest rates and the present method of requiring only 20% down-payment for the purchase of a vehicle are encouraging people to buy cars. With increases in road taxes occurring every few years, car prices do not go down. Therefore, when the buyer struggles for three years to pay his instalments, at the end of the instalment period, he will have a car worth more than what he has paid for, in spite of having used it for three years. This encourages everyone to buy a new car. If the hire purchase terms, Sir, could be amended, say, to 80% down-payment, this will reduce the sale of cars. In Japan, before anyone can buy a car, one must have written proof that he has a garage to park his car. At present, even owners of Housing Board flats have as many as two or three cars per family, and this results in parking problems. If we insist that one can only own a car if he has a parking lot, this would control the increase in cars. Sir, the Minister, in his talk at a forum recently, pointed out that we would see improved traffic conditions next year. The East Coast Expressway will be completed; the Bukit Timah one-way traffic scheme will be completed and road traffic will improve. Surely we should wait and see if this improvement would take place before increasing road taxes. The present increase in road taxes has caused undue problems to people in the middle and lower-income groups. Many school teachers, sales representatives and construction workers need cars for their daily business and without their cars, it would hinder their work. Many families have two or three cars per family. Maybe we can look into restricting each family to one car and every economically active member in the family with an additional car up to a certain maximum. In this way, Sir, the control of those with cars can be a painless one without the need to increase road taxes. Finally, the Hon. Minister also said at the forum that the Ministry had set a target ratio of 12 persons to one car. At present the ratio is 16 to 1. However, I feel that taxes should not be increased as it would only cause further inflation. 3.00 p.m.

Sir, I would like, first of all, to thank hon. Members for their interest in land transportation and the various suggestions they have made. Some have, in fact, suggested further controls on the growth of motor cars and how one should go about making car ownership more painful. Perhaps I would start with a general comment first, since there has been a lot of heated debate and discussions inside and outside this House when the increases in registration fees and road taxes were introduced last month. There is no question at all that the motor vehicle has penetrated well into the social and economic lives of the people. It has revolutionised transport systems with far-reaching consequences on urbanisation patterns and the distribution of human activities. It has found many important social uses, among which are the enhancement of individual mobility and the enormous widening of personal horizons. On the other hand, this new mobility brought about by the motor vehicle has caused and enabled cities and towns to sprawl, often in ugly confusion. There are also several adverse by-products in the form of terrible human sufferings and even the loss of lives and continuous deterioration of amenities of every kind. The motor vehicle's contribution to our civilisation is one which could be justifiably described as a mixed blessing. There is no point in lamenting the arrival of the motor car or the motor vehicle. What we must do is to learn to control this machine. But before we are able to control the machine effectively, we must be clearly aware of both the good and the evil it can do; and to understand the man who sits behind the steering wheel inside this contraption. It is not my intention to pretend that I have all the simple and practical solutions to all the urban transportation problems. All major cities in the world are facing a similar problem, some much more serious than others, while many continue to deteriorate because of a lack of effective control on the growth in the number of motor vehicles. Sir, with rising affluence in Singapore, many people increasingly find the motor car an added attraction. This is because the convenience and the degree of mobility afforded by the private car cannot be surpassed by any mode of public transport. The last round of tax increases was to slow down the high growth rate of motor cars, especially during the last 12 months. These were preventive measures to ensure that we do not have to look for costly and painful remedies after our roads are clogged with cars and traffic grinds to a halt. Tax measures are perhaps one of the most efficient ways of restraining our growth. Hon. Members have made various suggestions, so have others outside this House. But there are practical problems. Import quotas, as suggested by the Member for Paya Lebar, would raise the prices of cars artificially, benefiting only a small group of unscrupulous people. It may be inequitable because only the rich or very rich could afford these artificial prices. Rationing these quotas to those considered deserving would run into charges of favouritism or, worse, corruption. Restricting one car to each family will not really help as there are always ways to circumvent this. Limiting credit facilities would hit the less well-off man-in-the-street who depends on credit facilities to own the car he requires for his job and livelihood. The Member for Paya Lebar suggested that there should be a ban on car advertisements. I do not believe advertisements can encourage people to buy cars if they do not have the means to maintain them. Traffic congestion is a problem experienced, as I said, not only in Singapore but in other large cities as well. There is no single solution to the problem. Fiscal measures have so far been used successfully. Those who argued against fiscal measures said that it was indiscriminate, a blanket tax hike that hit every car owner regardless of whether or not they contributed to urban traffic congestion. They disagreed with this concept of equal misery. Some car owners claim that they use their cars only for social and leisure trips and even then only after 7.00 p.m. and during weekends, hours which are outside the normal congestion hours of a working day. Others claim that they use their cars in rural areas or less urbanised areas where traffic is light and public transport service is less comprehensive. Therefore, they argue that they should not be asked to pay higher taxes to the same extent as those who contribute to traffic congestion in towns. These arguments are not unreasonable. Perhaps a scheme could be devised to distinguish those who contribute to urban traffic congestion from those who do not, so that differential tax rates will apply. But such a scheme would have many practical problems and also enforcement problems, which need to be carefully studied and resolved before they can be introduced. What is needed is a multi-prong approach to this problem. Perhaps we have to continue to regulate ownership and usage of cars - to encourage car pooling, to improve bus and taxi services, to use time zone and area zone controls, to further relieve congestion, and other traffic management measures. There is no single simple solution. Members have raised the question of bus services, contending that since it will take another 10 years before the MRT could come into operation even if Government decides to go ahead now, there is need to provide a good alternative as a mode of transport for the general public. As Members will remember, the SBS bus fleet has increased from 1,400 buses in 1974 to 2,400 buses now operating daily in the streets. SBS will continue to purchase buses to further improve its service. SBS has embarked on a programme to buy a total of 552 new buses over the next two years, costing approximately $76 million. These will be put on the road as soon as they are delivered. 152 of these buses will be double-deckers. These buses will also have improved features to enhance safety and provide better comfort for commuters and drivers, such as bigger engine capacity, automatic transmission, power steering, dual brake system, better suspension, lower floor bus board, better engine insulation against noise and heat to make the job of the driver more comfortable. Hopefully this will also cut down the rate of accidents. The Member for Serangoon Gardens made a suggestion about building more bus shelters and bus interchanges. SBS has a programme to build interchanges in all major new towns, but this will take time. We cannot build everything overnight. But the Member's observation is right and SBS will no doubt take note of his suggestion. As regards bus drivers, their manner of driving leaves much to be desired. The Ministry is aware of this. This is a discipline problem. The number of public complaints against bus drivers for reckless driving has increased by about 68%, from 198 in 1978 to 333 in 1979. Stern disciplinary action has also been taken by SBS during the same period. In 1978, 116 cases of disciplinary action were taken as against 374 in 1979. Refresher courses for drivers with poor driving records have also been organised and conducted by SBS. 3.15 p.m. To be fair to SBS, their overall performance has improved. Despite the increase in the operational bus fleet, the number of accidents has decreased from 7,018 in 1978 to 6,854 last year. The number of accidents per bus has also decreased from 3 1/2 to 3 in 1979. This is a 15.7% decrease. The rate of accident per 100,000 km travelled has also been reduced from 3.4 in 1978 to 3 in 1979. There is a reduction of 11.8%. The Member for Telok Blangah has sought information on the bus service in his constituency. I am glad to inform him that work on the passenger concourse in the interchange has begun and the interchange should be completed as scheduled, i.e. in the middle of this year. When the new bus plan is fully implemented, there will be nine trunk services operating from the interchange. All the four neighbourhoods in Telok Blangah will be linked to the interchange by feeder services. In addition, there will be a ring service linking all the neighbourhoods to the interchange. He asked about season bus pass. I am afraid SBS is not in a position to issue such a pass to every commuter. This is because commuters will only opt for season bus passes if they can derive substantial savings. In other words, it means a substantial loss for SBS. Therefore, SBS cannot afford to provide such concessions on a large scale without resorting to fare hikes. The Member also raised the question of car pooling pick-up points in Telok Blangah. The Member may wish to know that there is already one such point along Telok Blangah Road, opposite Kampong Jagoh School. A new point along Telok Blangah Way will be put up by PWD soon. The Member for Khe Bong asked about the Mass Rapid Transit system, and accused us of dragging our feet. Although I do not entirely agree with all the comments that he has made, I would like to assure him that we are not dragging our feet. The Member may recall that, on 26th February this year, I informed the House that a decision on MRT will be taken as soon as we have examined all the aspects concerning its costing and development potential. In the meantime, the Provisional MRT Authority which is being set up will carry out all the preliminary works related to MRT. These works are necessary anyway before construction can begin. The Member for Jurong mentioned about noise created by noisy exhausts of motorcycles. There is existing legislation to provide punishment for such indulgence. It is an offence to use motorcycles which make excessive noise. This is provided for in the Road Traffic Act under the rules governing the construction and equipment of motor vehicles. Offenders are fined and are required to bring their vehicles to the ROV for inspection. These vehicles will be allowed back on the road only after the cause of the noise has been rectified, Last year, 961 persons were booked by the ROV and Traffic Police for this violation. However, I do also agree with the Member that perhaps more strict enforcement should be carried out. He may recall that my colleague, the Minister for Home Affairs, has already mentioned that his Ministry is looking into this matter to further tighten the rules and regulations. The Member for Bedok is unhappy about the increase in the Area Licensing Fee. We find that it is necessary to increase the Area Licensing Fee because the number of motorists entering the CBD during the restricted hours has increased despite the previous increase of ALF in 1976. He also wanted to know the reason for penalising the existing car owner who is buying a new car to replace the old car by making him pay a higher registration fee, as against a new car owner who buys a new car for the first time. As far as the land transportation policy is concerned, it is very difficult to make a distinction based on the time when a car is bought. Whether you bought it in the past or you buy it now, it contributes to traffic congestion just the same. So it is difficult to say who has to pay a higher penalty for owning a car. Anyway, those who buy to replace old cars are already enjoying the Preferential Additional Registration Fee which works out to roughly about 40% or 50% of the Additional Registration Fee on a new car. I hope I have covered all the points.

Sir, may I be permitted to raise a few points in regard to the siting of bus bays at bus terminus? Do the SBS and ROV take into consideration the noise pollution and also the air pollution by smoky exhausts caused by the siting of bus bays near blocks of flats? I refer in particular to the bus terminus in Toa Payoh Central. This terminus has been in existence for many years and there are altogether four bus bays. But it seems strange that despite repeated requests by residents in Block 183, SBS still continues to use the lane nearest to the block of flats and shops. Not only does the noise cause annoyance to the residents but the exhaust fumes cause a lot of dirt and soot to settle on the goods in the shops, the residents' window curtains and so on. Why cannot the SBS use the outer lane, the fourth lane, instead of using the first lane which is about two or three metres away from the block of flats? The other three lanes are not used at all despite the fact that they are there. I am taking this opportunity to raise this matter because the HDB and the PWD are now renovating the bus shelter along this particular lane, and I would like to know whether they could make some arrangement to change the system whereby the outer lane could be used rather than the inner lanes.

Sir, I am afraid I am not too familiar with the particular terminus that the hon. Member for Toa Payoh has mentioned. I will ask SBS to look into this. But this is a general complaint that we used to receive from members of the public. They all clamour for better bus service. They want the bus stop to be not far away from their homes but yet they do not want the bus stop to be right in front of their homes because of noise pollution and air pollution. This is a contradiction in itself. As I said, the only way to solve all these problems is for SBS to step up its maintenance programme to ensure that the buses do not generate as much noise as it is today or pollution through smoky exhausts. My Ministry will continue to get SBS to pull up their socks to work harder in this respect.

Sir, the point that I raised is that as SBS is the only alternative for an efficient land transport system until the MRT arrives, it has to improve its services. The Minister has stated that with affluence the tendency is for people to own more cars but at the same time the policy is to control the ownership of cars. Therefore, more and more Singaporeans would have to look to SBS. I am happy that he has taken note of the suggestions that we have made. 3.30 p.m. However, I would like two clarifications from the Hon. Minister. The first is the point that I have made with regard to a separate bus service for school children before school hours and after school hours. I am sure hon. Members have noticed crowds of school children waiting at bus stops and often spilling over to the main road. This is highly dangerous. I am sure parents would like to be assured that no harm comes to their children. Secondly, the Minister has made the point that more and more buses will be put on the road in the near future. He has given figures of cases of reckless driving, an increase of 68% over the past year. However, with more buses, the question of greater vigilance on the part of the SBS has to be considered. I would like the Minister to comment on these two points.

Sir, I am not too clear as to the proposal for a separate bus service for school children.

May I clarify that, Sir? Many school children take buses to school. They have to queue at bus stops and compete with other bus commuters. The queues normally occur before school hours when they have to go to school, and after school hours when they have to take the buses home. As I have said, hon. Members must have seen the crowds of school children. It is a very dangerous situation prevailing at the moment, when there are school children crowding at bus stops competing with other commuters for the bus. One suggestion is for the SBS to provide a separate bus service for the school children during these hours so that, when the buses come to the bus stop, only school children can take these buses. In other words, the SBS should put in additional buses on the road specifically for school children.

Sir, I have the impression that the SBS has been asked to look into this matter. But I am not too sure at this stage whether it has implemented this particular scheme. I will definitely ask the SBS to look into this matter to see whether they are in a position to do so or whether such a service would actually solve the school children's problem. It is too early for me to say anything definite at this stage. The Member's other question is about greater vigilance on the part of the SBS in view of the increase in reckless driving. I have mentioned earlier that the new batch of buses that the SBS is buying are better equipped, with fully automatic transmission, better engine capacity, and are much more comfortable for the bus drivers to handle. One of the reasons which the bus drivers give for the unsatisfactory manner in which they handle the buses is their uncomfortable working conditions. In other words, they have to drive in the sun and in heavy traffic. They have to shift the gears very frequently. This is something which the SBS is very much aware of. We hope that with the new batch of buses coming in and with other improvements to existing buses, these problems would be further reduced.

I would like to thank the Minister for his reply, especially his assurance that we will have a better SBS service in the near future. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head I be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead Code IE-01 of the Main Estimates. Sir, last Christmas and New Year, because of the unusually heavy volume of mail, the Nelson Road Mails and Parcels Centre utilised the services of about a dozen national servicemen to sort the mail. The Amalgamated Union of Public Employees (AUPE), which represents the staff in the Centre, agreed that it was necessary for the national servicemen to be engaged as the entire staff at the Centre could not cope with the additional volume of work, even with overtime. However, the AUPE has expressed its concern that the Centre may have created a precedent in that the assistance of national servicemen would be sought on other occasions in order that overtime work for the staff may be cut, thereby depriving them of overtime earnings. An assurance is, therefore, sought from the Minister that national servicemen will not be used unnecessarily, especially when the staff can cope with the mail by working overtime so that they can earn more pay. My next point on this topic concerns the postal express mail service arrangements which Singapore has with other countries. Under such arrangements, the postal authority in the sender countries has to arrange for express mail, in other words, mail with "express" label on the envelope, to be sent by the fastest possible means to the country of destination. The postal authority in the receiving country is obliged to deliver such mail to the addressee immediately, normally by special despatch. Sir, from my own experience and that of my friends, I find that the express mail sent to people in Singapore is usually delivered very fast. We certainly appreciate the good work being done by our postal authority in this respect. But the problem usually lies with the other destination countries. If we send something from Singapore by express mail, experience has shown that with certain countries where we have such arrangements, a letter sent by express mail can sometimes take a longer time than a letter sent by ordinary air mail. While I do realise that we have no control over the operation of postal authorities in other countries, I feel it is necessary to draw this matter to the attention of the Hon. Minister so that it can be brought up with countries where such delays are generally experienced.

Mr Speaker, Sir, our Postal Services Department is one of the most efficient Government departments in Singapore, but one particular area which is causing concern is the mail delivery service. It is appalling to see that the mail delivery service in Singapore is fast getting from bad to worse. Letters posted locally normally take one day or even at the latest two days to reach the addressee in Singapore after the date of posting, but in recent years, this service seems to have deteriorated. The lapse in such a service is causing much concern to Singaporeans. Nowadays, ordinary local mail takes as much as three days, maybe more, to reach the addressees. During festive seasons, the mail delivery service deteriorates still further as normal mail takes as much as four days to reach the addressee. This unduly long delay in the delivery of mail does not speak well of our Postal Service which serves only a small population of approximately 2.4 million people in a small island of approximately 572 sq. km in area. The delay causes inconvenience to the people. Sir, the introduction of the special mail services, such as LUM, speedpost and express services, for the rapid transmission of mail is an excellent facility provided to serve the public. But does this mean that Singaporeans are compelled to make use of these facilities in order to ensure that their mail reach the addressees promptly? If this special service is introduced at the expense of the ordinary local mail delivery service, then it is sad to say that we are not conforming to our Government's aim to increase productivity, whereby not only have we to upgrade the skills of our general workers but also their efficiency and standard of performance in all fields. In this instance, not only should the Postal Service upgrade its standard of performance in the delivery of local mail but also improve its mode of operation. May I ask the Hon. Minister whether he could enlighten this House on the causes of this slow delivery in local mail in recent years? May I also ask the Hon. Minister whether he would consider implementing the mail delivery service on Sundays as well as public holidays to speed up the mail delivery service? Perhaps a shift system could also be considered.

Sir, first I would like to assure the Member for Alexandra that the Postal Department's engagement of national servicemen to help sort the high volume of mails during the festive season will not deprive the postal workers of their overtime earnings. In the last seasonal period, the Postal Department only engaged about 20 or more national servicemen working on three shifts. Even with the help of these additional national servicemen working in three shifts and with all the postal staff working overtime, they were still unable to cope with the large volume of mail that they had to handle. Under normal circumstances, these additional hands are not really required. It is only during the festive season that they are required. Perhaps in the future we should make use of retired postal pensioners to help out during the peak period. As regards the Member for Changi's complaint about the delay in delivery of normal mail, we are satisfied that the standard of service that is being maintained is satisfactory. The Postal Service Department conducts a check once every three months on the standard of service. On the average, over 97% of the local ordinary mail are delivered one day after the day of posting, and only about 3% take more than two days to deliver. Letters are occasionally delayed if there are staffing difficulties at post offices; for example, postmen on urgent leave and there is insufficient replacement, or when the mail postings are abnormally heavy, such as what I have mentioned earlier, during festive seasons or during the beginning of each month when the banks despatch bank statements to their clients and firms and also firms send out their bills at the same time. Sometimes delays are caused by letters not fully or clearly addressed. 3.45 p.m. I would like to assure the hon. Member for Changi that the introduction of the LUM (local urgent mail) service, speedpost and international express delivery is not made at the expense of the ordinary mail service. The Postal Services Department will continue to improve the standard of its services. The Department will be acquiring two cancellers and one letter sorting machine to speed up the process of facing and sorting of letters in its Mails and Parcels Centre at Nelson Road within this financial year. When these machines are installed sometime next year, it will upgrade the skill of our postal workers and further speed up delivery of letters. The Postal Services Department does not intend to provide delivery service on Sundays and public holidays as there is no real need for this service since most Government offices and commercial firms are closed on Sundays and public holidays. Urgent messages on such days can be communicated by other means such as telex, cables, telegrams and telephones. The hon. Member will agree that postal delivery is a labour-intensive activity. The trend in developed countries that experience shortage of suitable labour is to curtail rather than increase the number of mail deliveries. The Member for Alexandra mentioned about express mail delivery service encountering some delay at the overseas end. Under normal circumstances, letters sent under the international express delivery service are delivered more quickly than ordinary air mail. This is because at the overseas office of express delivery, letters are taken out of the special delivery in advance of other mail. It is, of course, possible that delays occur from time to time for some reason not known to us. However, if details of specific cases of delayed delivery in overseas destinations can be furnished to my Ministry, the Postal Department will definitely be asked to look into this and bring the matter to the attention of the countries concerned and request remedial action. The Postal Department will, of course, require to know the particulars of the addressee, the place, date and time of posting.

Sir, in view of the answers given, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head I be reduced by $10 in respect of project 8101 of Subhead Code IE-04 of the Development Estimates. Under this Subhead Code, the provision is for minor improvements to postal services. We see a paltry sum of $83,480 allocated for this item and it is well explained in the Memorandum. What I wish to bring to the attention of the Hon. Minister for Communications is the problem faced by my constituents. They live in Punggol Estate which has about 25 blocks with 3,091 units and the population is no less than 16,000. At present the nearest post office is at Lim Ah Pin Road which is about 1 km away and it is also known as a non-delivery post office. The problem here, Sir, is that residents who want to purchase postage stamps or to post letters have to walk no less than 1 km on the average. I would therefore like to ask the Hon. Minister whether, with the expansion of Punggol Estate, he will consider setting up a post office in Punggol Estate. The Hon. Minister for National Development, in reply to a question, has said that Punggol Estate will be expanded by a few hundred units. Therefore, there is a need for a post office in Punggol estate. I am surprised to see that there is no provision for this purpose. A further question can also be asked. What plans does the Postal Services Department have with regard to the setting up of post offices not only in Punggol but also in the other large housing estates?

Sir, as a general policy, the Postal Services Department will establish a post office in a housing estate if it has a population of not less than 30,000 and if there is no other existing post office within a kilometre radius. At present, there is no plan to establish a post office in Punggol Estate since it only has a population of about 5,000.

You are wrong, Mr Minister. Who gave you that figure?

Sir, I am talking about Punggol Estate. This estate is adequately served by the existing Lim Ah Pin Road Post Office which is only about 400 metres away. In addition, there is also a postal agency which is located about 300 metres away; at Block 6, Tampines Way, This postal agency sells postage stamps, postal orders and accepts registered letters and parcels. There is also a post box provided in the same area. However, the Member for Punggol will be pleased to know that a post office is being planned for Neighbourhood 4 of Hou Kang New Town which will be developed within his constituency over the next few years.

Sir, with regard to the number of people living in Punggol Estate, the Hon. Minister has been misinformed, There are 3,091 units to be exact. The Minister says there are 5,000 people. I think the figure of 10,000 is missing somewhere. Is it because of a typographical error, or could it be that the Hon. Minister has been misinformed? The Minister mentioned Neighbourhood 4 of Hou Kang Estate that is coming up. For the information of the Minister, Hou Kang Estate stretches from Upper Serangoon constituency, i.e. from Surin Avenue along Upper Serangoon Road, past Jalan Hock Chye, down to Tampines Road and into Punggol. Hou Kang Estate, therefore, covers not only Punggol proper.

Sir, even if the figure supplied by the hon. Member of 3,091 housing units is correct, it still falls outside the general policy. It is still below the criterion of 30,000 people.

Sir, that is the norm set by the Ministry of Communications. With the expansion of Punggol Estate and the development of Hou Kang Estate, a new post office nevertheless has to be built. I think the Hon. Minister has not given me a satisfactory answer. Nevertheless, much as I would like to call for a vote -

Do you want me to put your amendment to a vote, Mr Ng?

I am a bit reluctant, Sir. Anyway, I will let the Hon. Minister off the hook. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head I be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead Code IF-01 of the Main Estimates. Sir, may I have your permission to range my remarks over my amendment (6)?

Yes.

Sir, in moving this amendment, I merely wish to seek information with regard to the application for a taxi driver's licence. The processing of applications for taxi driver's licences appears to be unduly slow. I wonder whether steps could be taken to improve the method of processing these applications. Most of the applicants are unemployed and their grouses are justified because they have been waiting from six months to a year. In this regard, I would like to urge the Minister concerned to look into the method of processing applications for taxi driver's licences. Another matter concerns the increase in the Area Licence Fees. Recently, there was an increase of 25% in the ALF from $4 to $5 daily and from $80 to $100 monthly. The object of this increase appears to be purely to raise revenue rather than to deter entry into the Central Business District (CBD). I would like to ask the Minister for Communications whether he could provide the House with statistics of the number of area licences bought in a month when it cost $3 and for a month when it cost $4, and the basis of his calculation of the anticipated drop in the purchase of area licences with the present fee of $5. 4.00 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in recent years more and more kindergarten children and primary school pupils depend on school buses for transport to and from schools. As such, the lives of thousands of these little delicate children are left in the hands of the school bus operators. For the safety and comfort of these school-going children, many school bus drivers do take the trouble to ensure that these unaccompanied children travel to and from schools safely and comfortably. There are even some drivers who personally accompany these children across the roads either to the school premises or to their homes. This, I must say, is a job well-done by drivers who have the children's safety and comfort at heart when driving them to and from schools. But there are some school bus operators who could not care less for the children's safety, let alone comfort. Such bus operators have been seen to blatantly flout the law. It is not an uncommon sight today to see some school buses overcrowded with children, as if they are packed like sardines in a can. Worse still, the speed limit is not observed by these drivers. As a result of the excessive load of these little children, these drivers tend to drive beyond the restricted speed limit in order that the children could reach the various schools in time. Obviously, the more children these drivers have, the more they earn, otherwise they may not earn enough to pay for the fuel price increases. But they do not realise that their prime responsibility is to ensure the safety of these children who are left in their care. So not only are the lives of the children in their custody endangered but also those of other road users. Should an accident happen to any one of these vehicles, it will be disastrous. In fact, several accidents have already happened and many parents are expressing more and more concern about the fast-growing rate of accidents in which innocent young school-going children are killed. But what can these parents do as they have to rely on these drivers to ferry their children to and from schools because the public transport is still not as efficient as expected? Sir, the main reason for these drivers rushing from one school to another is not just to ensure that the children report at the schools punctually but also to ensure that their next round of earnings from picking up office-going commuters is not lost. This unhealthy state of affairs brought about by some of these drivers at the expense of the children's safety undoubtedly causes much concern among parents and other road-users. Would the Hon. Minister inform this House what enforcement measures are being taken or will be taken to correct such malpractices in the light of more accidents in which young innocent school-going children have lost their lives?

Sir, there has been no complaint about delays in processing of applications for taxi driving licences. However, I will ask the ROV to look into this matter, since it has been raised by the Member for Khe Bong who has requested that this process be expedited. The Member has also asked for figures regarding the area licensing fee. An average of 2,752 monthly area licences for private cars were sold for the three months in 1975 when the fee was $60 per month. This was raised to $80 per month in 1976. The average monthly sales for the whole of 1976 fell to 2,400, a drop of about 13%. The sale of daily licences also followed the same trend, dropping from an average of 889 in 1975 to 654 in 1976, a decrease of 26%. Since then sales have gone up again.

There you are!

In 1979, an average of 2,690 monthly licences and 1,027 daily licences were sold. It is still too early to gauge the effect of the latest fee increase on the sale of monthly area licences, as a large number of these were bought in advance. The sale of daily licences has, however, fallen to an average of 985 for the first eight days of this month compared to 1,027 for the whole of last year, a drop of about 4%. Traffic counts will be made in about two to three months' time and this will give a clearer picture of the situation. The Member for Changi asked what legislation is there to check the school buses from committing the offences of over-crowding and reckless driving. There is existing legislation for the ROV to check both overcrowding in school buses as well as reckless driving by school bus drivers. It is an offence for a school bus to carry more passengers than it is licensed for. In the case of serious overcrowding, both the owner and the driver can be prosecuted in court. Reckless school drivers, like any other reckless drivers, can also be prosecuted in court. The number of school buses found operating Scheme B service outside the authorised hours has dropped from 238 in 1978 to 69 last year. Stern measures, such as the revocation of licence and prosecution, have been taken against school bus drivers who exceed the speed limit whilst carrying school children. This action will continue to be taken.

I am afraid I cannot accept the explanation of the Minister. He said that in 1979, the number of cars that entered into the restricted zone has gone up instead of down. But he tried to defend it by saying that it was too early to gauge the effect. So I would like to pose this question. Let us suppose that in time to come the number of cars entering the restricted zone area does not come down, what will he do? An hon. Member: Increase the fee.

Sir, the whole purpose of the Area Licensing Scheme is to regulate the flow of vehicles entering the restricted zone during the peak hours in order to relieve traffic congestion. As I have mentioned earlier, when the Area Licensing Scheme was introduced in 1975 at $60 per month, the monthly area licences purchased by private car owners numbered 2,752. When it was increased to $80 per month in 1976, it was brought down to 2,400. Since then, because of growing affluence and better economic performance, it begins to grow and has gone up to 2,690 monthly licences in 1979. The recent increase in the area licensing fee is expected to bring this figure down to a more acceptable level. If it continues to grow again, we may have to raise the area licence fee once more.

Sir, is the Hon. Minister considering extending the restricted hours to cover the peak hours in the evening?

Sir, if the hon. Member for Kim Seng feels strongly that it should be extended because he has experienced congestions in the Central area, we will consider it.

Sir, that is a very contorted reply to my question. The decision lies with the Ministry and not with me. He is trying to pass the buck!

Sir, as I said, if the Member feels strongly, we will consider that. As of now, there is no immediate plan to extend the restricted hours.

Sir, I would like to thank the Hon. Minister for his very frank answer to my questions. i beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn. The following amendments stood on the Order Paper Supplement -

That the sum to be allocated for Head I be reduced by the whole sum in respect of Subhead Code IF-06 of the Main Estimates.

That the total sum to be allocated for Head I of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100.

Mr Cheong is not here. Mr Tan Soo Khoon is not moving. The sum of $83,952,930 for Head I ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $264,668,480 for Head I ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head K -

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head K be reduced by $10 in respect of Object Group 3310 of Subhead Code KB-02 of the Main Estimates. Sir, this concerns the Grant to the Military Welfare Fund. I notice that for FY 79 as well as FY 80 a token sum of $10 was provided. I am wondering how this token sum of $10 grant can help in achieving whatever the objective of the Military Welfare Fund is. The explanation given under the Programme of Welfare Services is "for contributions to the Military Welfare Fund." I would like to know from the Hon. Minister of Defence - he is not here, but maybe his Minister of State of Defence who is here in the House - if he could elaborate further as to how this token sum of $10 can help towards maintaining better welfare in the Armed Forces. 4.15 p.m.

Sir, I can assure the Member that when the Ministry of Defence asked for an allocation of more than $1,000 million for the financial year 1980/81, we need more than $10 to provide for the welfare of our SAF personnel. Prior to financial year 1978/79, the Military Welfare Fund received grants from the Armed Forces block vote but since then, because there are other sources of income, the Military Welfare Fund has been dependent on these sources rather than a straight grant from the Finance Ministry. These incomes include rebates of payment from canteen operators in the various SAF camps. Every year we tender these canteens to be operated by contractors and rebates are charged and credited to the Military Welfare Fund. We also tender out the collection of swill from our SAF units cook-houses to civilian contractors who similarly have to pay a rebate. There are other incomes from operating of coinafons. SAF pays for the rental of the machines and repairs, but keeps the proceeds. The proceeds are also credited to the Military Welfare Fund. Occasionally, there are contributions from external organisations, such as the NTUC Income. These donations and contributions are not sent to the Ministry of Finance but also credited to the Military Welfare Fund. Since the administration of welfare depends critically on speed, because sometimes some of these welfare needs have to be dispensed very quickly and also because of the scale of the operations involved, the Ministry of Defence has arranged with the Ministry of Finance to allow the Military Welfare Fund to retain these incomes, i.e. instead of crediting these incomes to the Consolidated Fund, they go straight to the Military Welfare Fund. The Fund is administered by a committee chaired by the Chief of General Staff, and its membership comprises all the senior SAF Commanders as well as heads of the relevant civilian Departments. The Fund is used for the following purposes. It provides financial grants to soldiers, for example, education grants, hardship grants for single soldiers doing national service and who are the sole breadwinners of their families. We also provide funeral grants for soldiers who die in active service or for members of their immediate family. Drug parolees are also given allowances to enable them to rehabilitate. Part of the fund is used to provide amenities to SAF units, such as sports equipment for indoor games, television sets for the messes, film shows, newspapers, periodicals and, occasionally, when SAF units celebrate anniversaries, grants are also provided from this fund. The fund is also used to provide services, such as repair of television sets and other minor repairs. In the past several years we have spent on the average $3/4 million every year to look after the various aspects of welfare. The incomes from the various sources amount to just over $1 million but the fund is accumulated from year to year and the hon. Member can be assured that all the welfare needs of our SAF personnel are properly looked after.

Sir, this is one credit which I must give to the Ministry of Defence. I asked one question which embodied the other sub-questions, and forthwith came all the answers. This is where I am more than satisfied, and I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $1,119,740,130 for Head K ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $150,000,000 for Head K ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

I propose to take the Suspension now. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Order. I suspend this Sitting and will take the Chair again at 4.50 p.m. Sitting accordingly suspended at 4.20 p.m. until 4.50 p.m. Sitting resumed at 4.50 p.m

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

Head X -

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head X be reduced by $10 in respect of Project 8201 of Subhead Code XB-01 of the Development Estimates. Sir, public cleanliness in Jurong Town is the subject of discussion at almost every monthly meeting of the Jurong Citizens' Consultative Committee. It seems that this is a perennial problem and I think the authorities concerned should look into the matter seriously with a view to finding a long-term solution. Right now, corridors and staircases are not regularly washed, rubbish chutes not regularly flushed, public places not regularly swept, so much so that more and more rats are found scurrying in the estate. I do not know whether these rats can constitute a health hazard. Perhaps some learned Friends in this House can advise me on this. Sir, the general impression given is that the contractors engaged by JTC to do cleaning work in the estate do not have enough labourers. So they will only attend to problem areas. Service is provided only when a complaint is lodged. This is certainly not the way to maintain an estate. The JTC should have a better arrangement for public cleanliness in Jurong Town. Sir, the other point I would like to bring to the attention of the Minister is that it seems there is no consistency in the leasing policy of public housing as far as JTC is concerned. At one time, when there were many vacant flats left, whoever wanted to rent flats, so long as they could afford to pay a rental higher than normal, were entertained. Now that JTC is running short of flats, it begins to evict this category of tenants. Those who prefer to stay in Jurong Town must have very good reasons, either they are running a business or working in Jurong. They must be in one way or another connected with Jurong. The point is that this category of tenants are already residing there and are willing to stay on. They do not owe JTC a single cent on rental. Now they are being chased out. Where are they going to find alternative accommodation in Jurong Town, since all the flats are under the jurisdiction of JTC? My point is that so long as the tenants are willing to pay the enhanced rentals, let them stay on. Why bother to evict them? Why create problems for the tenants? Sir, the Housing and Development Board is currently building thousands of units of flats in both Jurong East and Jurong West which are actually not far away from Jurong Town. Those late applicants on the waiting list can be asked to take up flats in Jurong East or Jurong West when the flats in these areas are ready for allocation which is expected to take place in the very near future.

Sir, first, on the question of cleanliness. Cleanliness is as much a duty of JTC as it is of the residents. If, as the hon. Member has said, the corridors have not been properly swept and chutes have not been frequently flushed, I shall ask JTC to ensure that this is done. But I would like to emphasise that residents themselves must play a big part in keeping any estate clean. If residents insist on littering the premises, then it will be difficult, even with constant sweeping and flushing, for an estate to be kept clean. For JTC, this is a problem because they have a higher number of workers who are from outside Singapore staying in Jurong. These workers have a standard of cleanliness which is lower than the average Singaporean. But, nevertheless, we have to educate them to help to keep the premises clean. Secondly, we should also, as JTC is doing, give them warnings if they insist on littering the premises. The employers should also be told about the anti-social habits of the workers whom they employ. With this collective pressure on the foreign workers who are staying in Jurong, we hope the standard of cleanliness in the estate can be improved. On the second point of inconsistency in the leasing policy of the JTC, far from being inconsistent, the JTC is, in fact, rather consistent. They follow the policy of the HDB in renting out JTC flats which are under their jurisdiction. On the particular problem mentioned by the hon. Member for Jurong, it is true that some tenants are being asked to leave. This is because there were about 1,700 vacant flats as a result of over-construction in 1976 and 1977. So, rather than leave the flats vacant which could result in vandalism and a loss of revenue for JTC, the JTC decided, with the approval of the Ministry of Finance, to waive the normal rules for renting public housing. In other words, those who did not qualify under HDB rules were allowed to rent these premises. But it was clearly made known to them that the rental period was one year and thereafter it was subject to a monthly renewal. So the tenants who moved in and who did not qualify under normal circumstances for public housing knew exactly where they stood. At the moment, there is demand for such flats from workers who qualify for such housing. Therefore, JTC has taken steps to rectify the situation by asking the occupants to leave so that the workers in Jurong who qualify for public housing can be given priority. There could be instances where individuals find difficulty in getting alternative housing at short notice. If there are such instances, JTC is prepared to allow them a longer period to find alternative accommodation. 5.00 p.m.

Sir, not just a few such tenants, but most of them find difficulty in getting alternative accommodation. As I have mentioned just now, the HDB is building thousands of units of flats near Jurong Town. Why can we not allow those who are already staying in Jurong Town to continue to stay there, and those late applicants who are allocated flats can be accommodated in the estate built by the HDB which is very near to Jurong Town?

Sir, my understanding is that the demand exceeds the supply. If the situation is indeed what has been described to me, namely, that demand does not exceed supply because of the construction of new housing estate, then the suggestion can be considered by the JTC.

Sir, I hope the JTC will consider this request. On that note, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head X be reduced by $10 in respect of project 8304 of Subhead Code XB-01 of the Development Estimates. Sir, in moving this amendment, I wish to seek clarification from the Minister on the need to convert the existing loan of $105 million to the Sentosa Development Corporation into a grant. Is it because the Corporation is running at a loss and cannot generate enough revenue to pay the interest on the loan? Will the Hon. Minister enlighten the House on the present standing of the Corporation? Sir, I notice that, under Development Expenditure, an additional sum of $5.8 million is allocated to the Sentosa Development Corporation for the development of infrastructural facilities on Sentosa island. Can the Hon. Minister give some more details on the type of facilities that will be provided and, whether these facilities will cater for the general public or will they cater only a section of the population, like the present Sentosa Golf Club members? Can he give an assurance that, with the addition of $5.8 million, we can expect more visitors to Sentosa island and an increase in revenue?

Sir, I fully endorse the views expressed by my colleague, the Member for Ang Mo Kio. I for one am also interested to know why the loan to the SDC has been converted into a grant. Perhaps, in explaining the rationale for this, the Minister may wish to inform the House what is the cost-effectiveness of this grant and who are the people who are likely to benefit. Sir, I understand that the Singapore Sports Council has an outstanding loan with the Government for the construction of the National Stadium. The SSC is struggling very hard to pay interest of between $900,000 and $1 million to the Government every year. I hope the Member for River Valley, who is also the Chairman of the Singapore Sports Council, can bear me out on this point. Sir, why can the Government not also convert the loan to the SSC into a grant, so that the SSC can concentrate its efforts on sports promotion rather than waste its time in finding ways and means to raise money to pay the interest so that more people will benefit in the long run?

Sir, actually the question should be answered by the Minister for Finance since only he has the authority to decide whether or not a loan should be converted into a grant. But, nevertheless, speaking as the Minister in charge of Sentosa Development Corporation, I would like to explain the rationale why a request was made for the loan to be converted into a grant. The question was asked as to the financial status of SDC and whether, in fact, it incurred a loss. It was not a small loss; it was a huge loss. There is a reason for this. The Sentosa Development Corporation was required to reclaim offshore islands and to undertake infrastructural development for recreational purposes. The East Coast Park is available free of charge to the public of Singapore. So also is the Botanic Gardens. If we require the Corporation to undertake basic land reclamation for recreational purposes, there is no way in which the Corporation can be financially viable. The original objective of giving a loan instead of a grant to the Sentosa Development Corporation was to instil some financial discipline in the Corporation. The Minister for Finance did not want the Corporation to run amok by spending money unnecessarily on various projects. There was a purpose in it. After a few years of operation, it was discovered that there was no way in which the SDC could pay back the interest element as a result of infrastructural development. If I could give a breakdown of the figures for hon. Members here: $23.9 million were spent by SDC on the purchase of land; $11.8 million on infrastructural development; $18.4 million on recreation and other attractions. For the off-shore islands, $33.2 million were spent on reclamation and infrastructure. All these projects were financed by loans from the Ministry of Finance. As a result of the lopsided loan-equity capital ratio, SDC incurred a deficit. Just to give the figures for 1976: before the loan was converted into a grant, the SDC has a net deficit of $1.27 million, including interest. In 1977, the figure was $3,79 million, including interest. When the loans were converted into grants, the picture, of course, changed. Sentosa island itself was operationally profitable. There was a surplus from the operation of Sentosa island. In 1977, Sentosa island itself, not the SDC, had an operational surplus of $344,229. In 1978, the operational surplus was $261,195. In 1979, the operational surplus was $300,000. But SDC, as a whole, still suffers an operational deficit because of the offshore islands. The deficit for the offshore islands was $820,600 in 1976, $575,773 in 1977, $632,345 in 1978 and $452,000 in 1979. The Minister for Finance agreed in the end to convert the loans into grants because he recognised that land reclamation, like land reclamation in East Coast Park, has to be financed from Government budget and not by the Corporation. If we leave it to the Corporation to undertake land reclamation for public recreational purposes, I am afraid the Board of the Sentosa Development Corporation will not be very enthusiastic in making the offshore islands available by reclaiming more land. As regards the related question of the National Stadium and whether a similar case could be made out for it, as I have remarked earlier on, the question should be answered by the Minister for Finance. But, nevertheless, I will venture an answer from my point of view. The National Stadium is different from the Sentosa Development Corporation in the sense that once the structure is completed, there is no necessity for those in charge of the National Stadium to undertake further projects of this sort. There are also no competing services for the stadium, for example, competing venues, whereas in the case of Sentosa island, there are the East Coast Park, the Chinese Garden, the Japanese Garden, the Botanic Gardens and so on. For the National Stadium, there is only one National Stadium. To show that the National Stadium can be profitable, let me give some figures from 1976 onwards. The operational surplus for the National Stadium was $54,000 in 1976. The interest was $457,000. Therefore, there was a net deficit. But in 1977 the National Stadium had an operational surplus of $845,000 against an interest element of $692,000. There was a net surplus of $153,000. Thereafter, the revenue of the National Stadium went down. The operational surplus went down in 1978. It went up further in 1979. The interest element had gone up and, therefore, there was a net deficit situation. I believe a moratorium has been granted to the National Stadium on principal repayment and on interest repayment. The Member for Ang Mo Kio asked a question as to the kind of facilities that have been provided on Sentosa island as a result of further loans being given or as a result of further expenditure incurred. The facilities envisaged include a monorail to be financed by a loan from the Government. The assessment at this stage is that it is a commercially viable project and the loan can be repaid on the terms given. There will be a cycle-cum-jogging track to be financed from the surpluses of the Sentosa Development Corporation. A second golf course will be constructed. This will be financed from membership fees. A resort hotel is planned but this will be a private sector development. A musical fountain is also planned to be constructed on Sentosa island. This will be financed by the Singapore Tourist Promotion Board. These facilities to be provided by the Sentosa Development Corporation will cater for the local population as much as they will attract the foreign tourists. Sentosa is meant to be developed into a resort island as well as a day holiday island in the sense that Singaporeans can visit the island on a daily basis. A section of it will be used for resort development. This will cater mainly for the foreign tourists.

Sir, I would just like to raise a point of clarification. Would the Hon. Minister please inform the House when was the loan to SDC converted into a rant?

Sir, I believe it was in 1978.

Sir, if it was in 1978, then I submit that whatever decision made by the Minister was ultra vires because it should have come to this House for approval before the conversion could be agreed upon. Today we are being asked to vote on a decision made in 1978. 5.15 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in fact, the question should have been asked at the debate on the Finance Ministry and the Member would have got an answer. I am justifying from my point of view why the loan was converted into a grant. I do not think that the decision was ultra vires because the Finance Minister, I believe, has the authority to decide whether or not to convert the loan into a grant.

Sir, I seek to disagree because, in the first place, the question of whether or not to extend the grant or loan to a statutory body has to come to the House for approval. Until such approval is given. by the House, no Minister should be empowered to give that grant or loan. Technically, I am quite sure this is the position.

Mr Speaker, Sir, all I can do is to convey the Member's remarks to the Finance Minister for him to take note.

Sir, I really do not know whether I should withdraw the amendment since it has been pointed out that the matter of conversion could be ultra vires. Anyway, I am happy with the reply given by the Hon. Minister and I hope that he will convey what the hon. Member for Jalan Kayu has said to the Finance Minister. In future, the Minister should make sure that funds must be approved by the House before extending them to statutory boards. Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head X be reduced by the whole sum in respect of Subhead Code XC-02 of the Main Estimates. Sir, the recent decision by the Hon. Minister for Trade and Industry on the removal of tariff protection for some locally-manufactured goods is indeed a move in the right direction. The general reaction is that this will lead to cheaper imported goods that have been subjected to import duty in the past. Sir, I am not quite sure whether this is true in all cases. It will be recalled that last year the duty on cosmetics and toiletries was abolished. Soon after, an importer of a leading brand of cosmetics and toiletries informed retailers to this effect: 'We should have increased the prices long ago. But because of the withdrawal of duty, we will not increase our prices now.' This is only one instance where I managed to get evidence. But there may be others. I would like to ask the Hon. Minister whether the removal of tariffs would induce importers of goods, on which duty has been abolished, to pass on the benefit to the consumers? I hope that he would take the necessary steps to monitor the situation to see if the benefits of the abolition of import duty are passed on to the consumers. The other point I wish to raise is on the taking over of established agency lines from agency houses by principals. As a matter of fact, this is now the trend among many principals. As we are aware, Singapore has been a well-established place for agency houses for many decades, and many of the lines have been developed successfully for many years. This creates a temptation for principals to take back the agency lines and to trade under their own company's name. This not only causes dislocation in employment and career opportunities for local employees but it does not also lead to any transfer of marketing expertise, so to speak, or any technology to local industries. This also causes disruption to established trading patterns. Some of these companies merely set up a small office with a handful of staff, usually key personnel whom they have poached from agency houses. As a result of this, they bring in more expatriates to man these new trading houses. A recent case in point is a Japanese manufacturer who has established trading facilities in Singapore with a capital of $5 million. This was reported in the Singapore Stock Exchange JournaL If this son of situation is allowed to continue, it will not only disrupt the traditional trading pattern which has been operating in Singapore for so many years but also will cause dissatisfaction amongst our workers. On 3rd March, our Ambassador to Japan, Mr Wee Mon Cheng, made a speech at a dinner hosted by the Nanyang graduates. I will not quote the speech because it is too long. I agree with some of the comments he made with regard to the attitude of Japanese employers towards local executives. In most Japanese firms and trading houses in Singapore, the ratio of expatriate personnel to local executives is rather high. These companies should be encouraged to pass on their expertise to local executives rather than staff them with large numbers of expatriate personnel. I would also like to ask the Hon. Minister, what is the present Government policy in relation to allowing overseas principals to take over established agency lines in Singapore?

Sir, I rise to speak in support of the sentiments expressed by my good Friend, the hon. Member for Toa Payoh. I did raise this matter in the House on the 17th March during the debate on the Budget statement made by the Hon. Minister for Trade and Industry. I think this is quite a serious situation and it is certainly detrimental to us if we allow foreign trading companies to be set up locally and to act as agents when hitherto we have our own local trading companies which have done a much better job in establishing the market for the products of those countries. I see no reason why we should allow a proliferation of such foreign trading companies acting as agents in Singapore. I would also be grateful if the Hon. Minister could care to comment on the remarks.

Mr Speaker, Sir, two issues have been brought up for discussion. One is whether prices would drop as a result of the removal of protective tariffs on certain products. The second issue concerns the taking over of established agencies in Singapore by the principals. To answer the first question, I would expect that prices should fall as a result of the removal of tariffs. If prices do not fall, the local product would still enjoy a similar position as before, i.e. there is still an element of protection. If the distributors of imported goods want to increase their share of the market, one way to do so is for them to reduce prices. I would also expect local products that are substitutes for the imported products to fall in price over time, though not immediately. The whole rationale for the removal of protective duties is to bring about greater efficiency in the production of these goods. And if we succeed in doing so, i.e. if the policy works as we expect it to work, then the cost of production of the goods should fall. An example was cited in the case of cosmetics where prices did not fall. J think there is a difference between cosmetics and the manufactured products like airconditioners, refrigerators and television sets. In the case of cosmetics, we do not have firms in Singapore to produce these products which are comparable in quality to those which are imported into Singapore. There is also the value attached to the brand name of imported products. The demand for cosmetics also appears to be fairly inelastic.

Meaning what?

Meaning whatever the price, there will still be demand by our women for such items. Therefore, the distributors will find it profitable for them to retain the original price even though tariffs have been removed. I shall, however, ask my Department of Trade to monitor the price situation. We can only monitor because I do not think we can insist that prices should come down as a result of the removal of ti3riff duties because we should leave pricing to the private sector. But I would expect, as I remarked earlier on, that prices should fall as a result of the removal of tariffs. The second point is more basic in economic policy. If we believe in free enterprise, free competition and free trade, do we believe it all the way or do we believe it pan of the way? We have just removed tariffs for local industries. And to interfere with the distribution system is, in fact, to institute measures which are worse than tariffs. We are interfering if we prevent the overseas principals from establishing companies here to take over the distribution of their products in the private marketing arrangement. Generally, overseas companies would take over the distribution of their own products only when, in their own assessment, they believe they can have a bigger share of the market. If the local agents are performing an efficient job and can perform even better than the overseas companies coming over here to establish offices, then I do not see the commercial logic for these overseas companies to take over the agencies. I would therefore be loathe to interfere with business arrangements. The point, however, can be made as to what contribution these foreign companies bring to Singapore. This is where the employment pass can be used to ensure that only personnel who can bring along with them expertise are allowed to come in. Employment passes should not be given liberally to expatriates if they come over only to do a job which is no better than what a Singaporean can do. So in terms of issue of employment passes for expatriate personnel for such companies, from an administrative point of view, we shall be restrictive in recommending the issue of such passes. I hope my reply allays the fears of the two Members who touched on the issue. 5.30 p.m.

Sir, there seems to be an element of contradiction in what the Hon. Minister has said. First, he advocates free competition, and then he says it is all right to restrict employment passes, the purpose presumably is to protect employment for local people. I am all for preserving jobs for Singaporeans. But by the same token there is a point in restricting competition if that competition drives out local entrepreneurs, or if that competition is on an uneven footing, or if that competition is brought about by established trading companies with a wealth of expertise, economies of scale and so on behind them. There is a point, surely, in trying to encourage local entrepreneurship, and I think it is the function of Government to do so. To put that example on the same footing as removal of tariffs for products coming to Singapore is a different issue altogether. The fact is that we have a small economy and that the local market is too small to protect and that all our manufacturers ought to be export-orientated if we are going to survive, prosper and grow, and so on and so forth. But the point raised by the hon. Members of Parliament earlier was that we already have firms in Singapore taking care of distribution. Surely there is something to be said for Government policy to try and encourage the growth of local agency.

Sir, first of all, there is no contradiction in my remarks that we should be restrictive on the issue of employment passes. The qualification is, we should be restrictive in the issue of passes to expatriates who do not bring along with them skills which are not already present in Singapore. If the expatriates have skills which are better than Singapore's. I have made it very clear that we welcome such inflow into Singapore. So there is no contradiction in terms of the policy of free trade and free competition. But I see a contradiction if we were to prevent these companies from coming here, even though the local entrepreneurs may be the ones who are affected. But in many instances, it is not the local entrepreneurs who are affected. It is the established British trading houses which could be affected. Their lines of distribution for certain products could be taken away from them as a result of these foreign manufacturers wanting to do their own distribution in Singapore. I cannot see the logic of this unless in the view of the manufacturer they can do a better job here in Singapore than the existing distributor. To prevent local lines of distribution from being taken over by the principals, I think there is no way out but for the local distributor to be efficient. If he can prove that he is efficient, then I do not see why the manufacturer would like to disrupt his own market share. The manufacturer can take over the existing market but there is no guarantee that he can retain what he has. The market can shrink if his own marketing efforts are not efficient once he takes over the distribution of his products.

Sir, in view of the Minister's reply, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $41,611,250 for Head X ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $346,551,000 for Head X ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

With the consent of Mr Speaker and the general assent of Members present, Question put, and agreed to. Resolved, "That, notwithstanding the Standing Orders, progress be reported now and leave be asked to sit again on Monday, 24th March, 1980." - [Mr Goh Chok Tong]. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House

Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Main and Development Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 1980 to 31st March, 1981 and ask leave to sit again on Monday, 24th March, 1980.

So be it.

Resolved, "That Parliament do now adjourn." - [Mr Goh Chok Tong]. Adjourned accordingly at Twenty-two minutes to Six o'clock p.m. schedule - MAIN AND DEVELOPMENT ESTIMATES OF EXPENDITURE FOR THE FINANCIAL YEAR 1ST APRIL, 1980 TO 31ST MARCH, 1981 (Cols. 1287 - 1288)