Hansard, 2002-05-22

Under the provisions of clause 2(d) of Article 46 of the Constitution of the Republic of Singapore, the following Members have been granted permission to be or to remain absent from sittings of Parliament (or any Committee of Parliament to which they have been appointed) for the periods stated: NameFromTo (2002)(2002) Mr Lee Kuan Yew22 May24 May Assoc. Prof. Low Seow Chay25 May1 Jun Mr Yeo Guat Kwang29 May4 Jun Mr Lim Swee Say3 Jun8 Jun ABDULLAH TARMUGI Speaker Parliament of Singapore

asked the Minister for Health if he will introduce legislation to allow for the transplant of human organs from living persons to recipients who are not related to one another.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the current laws governing organ donation are the Medical (Therapy, Education and Research) Act (MTERA) and the Human Organ Transplant Act (HOTA). MTERA provides for an opt-in system for organ donations, whereas HOTA provides for a presumed consent system covering only kidneys from accidental deaths. Both laws are narrowly defined and refer only to cadaveric donations. My Ministry regulates living donor organ transplantation through professional guidelines. The existing guidelines allow living donors who are related. Last year, MOH announced that it was prepared to consider living unrelated organ transplants. We have examined the regulations and practices of other countries that allow living unrelated organ donations and have worked out a set of ethical guidelines. There are legitimate concerns about allowing living unrelated organ transplants. Firstly, there are risks to the donor from the procedure, particularly for organs such as the liver, where the risk of death or medical complications is significant. Secondly, there is a danger that healthy individuals may be offered financial inducements to donate their organs, thus creating the potential for organ trading. MOH is therefore very careful in allowing living unrelated organ transplants. They would only be allowed under exceptional circumstances if they meet the following conditions: (i) the medical condition must be urgent; (ii) all options for organ donation by a living relative of the patient have been explored and found to be not possible; (iii) the donor's motive must be purely altruistic, as established through a review by an independent psychiatrist and a medical social worker, and stated by the donor in a statutory declaration; and (iv) the risks and the possible outcomes of the operation must be fully explained to, and accepted by, the donor and the recipient. Another, and better, option to increase the availability of organs for transplantation is to raise the number of cadaveric organs. To achieve this aim, my Ministry is considering amending the Human Organ Transplant Act, such as including non-accidental deaths under the Act.

Mr Speaker, Sir, rather than leave the matter to guidelines, which means a decision would then have to be made by, presumably, a Ministry official, would it not be practical to have legislation to permit the transplant of the organs, so that the decision is not a discretionary matter? Secondly, could we also not, when introducing such legislation, take steps to ensure that it would be an offence to engage in the trading of organs?

Mr Speaker, Sir, as I have explained, today our two Acts, MTERA and the HOTA, cover only cadaveric organ transplants. All other transplants, particularly for related organ transplants, we have regulated these through professional guidelines under the Private Hospitals and Medical Clinics Act. Last year, we said that we were prepared to look at unrelated living organ transplants. As I also said in my reply, we are looking at the Human Organ Transplant Act, and we will be conducting consultations sometime towards the end of the year to gauge public reaction to our proposals to expand the Act. Right now, the main thing we want to expand the Act is, first, to cover from accidental death to non-accidental death. The second thing we want to put forward to the public to consider is to expand the scope of HOTA, to expand from just kidney to also include liver, and maybe even cornea. This is something that we want to propose and gauge public response. And, third, to be able to move from cadaveric transplants to living transplants. All these are being considered, and the best way forward, because the Ministry does not want to be too far ahead of community reactions to such changes, we will put these proposals up for consultation. We will then make the necessary legislative amendments after that.

May I ask the Minister how would his Ministry ensure that donors are not under emotional coercion, and that donors know the long implications of organ transplants, as well as the high medical risks of organ transplants, including death? And whether we should make it compulsory for donors to have psychological assessments or evaluation by psychiatrist, apart from being certified fit by doctors for an organ transplant.

I agree with the hon. Member that there are many issues involved, and that is why we are taking a more cautious approach before expanding the scope of organ transplants. As I mentioned earlier, before we allow a living unrelated transplant, we require that the donor's motive must be purely altruistic, and that the donor must be reviewed by an independent psychiatrist, and not just a medical report that he is medically fit. So, we do have these safeguards in place for living unrelated donor. We are also concerned about emotional coercion and that there could be a risk of financial inducements leading to organ trading. We could put in a clause - as we have in HOTA - to say that organ trading is illegal, but then we have to enforce it. There are many issues involved and, as I have said, we are putting up some proposals. We will do a fairly comprehensive public consultation, and we will then come back to the House later with our final proposals.

I would like to ask the Minister, roughly, how long will the review take and how soon can the changes be implemented.

Sir, our time-frame is to put up the consultation paper sometime at the end of the year and then, depending on how the public response progresses, we hope to come to Parliament probably early next year.

Order read for consideration in Committee of Supply (7th Allotted Day).

Head L (cont.) - Resumption of Debate on Question [21st May, 2002], "That the total sum to be allocated for Head L for the Main Estimates be reduced by $100." - [Dr Teo Ho Pin].

Question again proposed. 12.38 pm

Sir, it is not uncommon to see refuse vehicles carrying wastes leak sullage water on the roads. They cause nuisance to road users and residents. It also pollutes the environment. Some popular spots I notice of the leak of sullage water from garbage trucks are the uphill road in Hillview Estate, the junction where vehicles turn from Chua Chu Kang Drive into Chua Chu Kang Avenue 3, and the junction, turning from Toh Tuck Road into Commonwealth Avenue West. Under the sun, the sullage water emits a strong and unbearable pungent smell that affects the people living near the contaminated roads, and also the roadusers. Such dirty and smelly sullage water from the garbage trucks is unhygienic and could be a health hazard. Sullage water must not leak from garbage trucks. I would like to ask the Minister whether his Ministry has any rules to prevent leakage of sullage water from garbage trucks. Last month, large amounts of construction debris dropped from an overloaded lorry, causing two out of three lanes of the PIE unusable. Luckily, it happened during an off-peak period; otherwise, it would have caused serious traffic jams. For trucks carrying sand, marine clay and incineration ash, due to the nature of these materials, the fine and soft materials leak continuously from the gap between the tailgate and the body of the trucks carrying them. As a result, it contaminates the roads, dirties the cars, generates dust and pollutes the air. Sir, all the above problems are partly due to the inadequate design of the waste transportation vehicles, and partly due to the negligence of the drivers. What are the measures taken by the Ministry to ensure that all waste carrying vehicles have adequate designs? Is there any action to deter people from committing such irresponsible acts?

Sir, I thank the Members for sharing their views relating to the management of solid waste and water resources. This afternoon, I would like to respond to the solid waste issues first, followed by water issues. Yesterday, Assoc. Prof. Low Seow Chay, Mr Ang Mong Seng and Mr Low Thia Khiang asked about the reasons for the recent increase in incineration fees and refuse collection fees. Sir, there is no more landfill sites on the main island of Singapore. Today, 7,000 tonnes of solid waste are generated and burnt at our incineration plants every day. These 7,000 tonnes are burnt because we need to reduce the volume of our solid waste to preserve our landfill capacity. These 7,000 tonnes of solid waste are turned into 1,600 tonnes of bottom ash. We then landfill them at Pulau Semakau. The present approach poses two problems. Firstly, every 5-7 years, we have to build a new incineration plant. These plants are not cheap. For example, the latest plant we built at Tuas South costs $890 million. It is not cheap. The second problem is that every 25-30 years, we have to find a new landfill site, the size of Sentosa Island. I think Members here will agree with me that the present approach is not sustainable. It is not possible for us to build a new incineration plant at a cost of $890 million once every 5-7 years. It is not possible for us to find a new landfill site, the size of Sentosa Island, once every 25-30 years. We, therefore, have to adopt a new approach to the management of solid waste. Basically, we have embarked on three strategies. Firstly, we do whatever we can to encourage the reduction of waste, so that we can reduce the amount of waste that goes into incineration. Secondly, even for those waste that has to be incinerated, we try to find ways to re-use the bottom ash, so that they do not have to go to the landfill site. And, lastly, for those solid wastes which go directly to the landfill site without going through an incineration process, we also find ways to re-use them, so that we can move towards what we call zero landfill. Hopefully, the day will come when there is no need for landfill requirements at all. In fact, zero landfill is the only sustainable way for Singapore in the management of solid waste. This is the reason why we have no choice, but to continue to increase the charges for the incineration fees, not to make profits, but only to recover costs. Even with the latest round of increase to $77 per tonne, the amount collected is still below the full cost of processing the solid waste. 12.45 pm Incineration fee accounts for about 60-70% of the total operation cost of the public waste collectors. Companies that collect waste from the households have to pay for the incineration cost. The fees they pay for incineration accounts for about 60-70% of their business cost. This is the reason why when there is an increase in the incineration fees, they will have to recover this increase in the fees from the increase in refuse collection fees. The ENV is mindful that this adjustment will have some impact on our households and, in particular, on the SMEs. We have therefore spread out the increase over a period of few years. The last increase from $67 to $77 came up to about 15% increase. But, of course, incineration fee does not account for 100% of the business cost - only 60% of business cost. So, 60% of 15% gives you 9%. In other words, the refuse collection fees for households and SMEs would have to go up by about 9%, and not 15%, as mentioned by Prof. Low Seow Chay yesterday. This works out to about less than $1 per month per household. For HDB flat, it is about 88-95 cents per month. In the case of landed property, it is about $1.50 per month. In the case of the hawker centres and market stalls, it is about $5 a month. Sir, I know that nobody likes any increase in the refuse collection fees. But, as I have mentioned, the present way of managing our solid waste is not sustainable. So, the only way for us is to work together to enhance the level of recycling, as that is the only sustainable solution. Mr Ang Mong Seng asked at what point in time that the refuse fee can be lowered if the residents continue to support waste recycling efforts. Sir, this is a very good question. The refuse fee comprises two components. The first component is the service fee that we pay to the public waste collector for collecting the waste from our doorsteps. The second component is the disposal fee - for them to send the waste to the incineration plant for incineration. For every tonne of solid waste that the household is able to recycle, the public waste company will be able to avoid the payment of $77 for that tonne of waste, because he no longer has to incinerate that tonne of waste. But the problem is, on the whole, the level of participation in recycling, as well as the amount of waste being taken out from our waste stream, at this moment, has not reached a critical mass. As a result, the public waste companies are still not able to derive enough savings from recycling to compensate for the cost of recycling infrastructure. Sir, what it means is that, over time, if we can continue to encourage our residents and households to participate in recycling, then hopefully the day will come when certain precincts could reach the critical mass to the extent that the public waste collection companies will be able either to contain the rise in the refuse fees, or maybe even to reduce the refuse fees, because they will be able to derive additional value from the avoidance of having to pay for the incineration, as well as to be able to derive values from the recyclables. Sir, in this regard, the Members of the House here can actually do a lot to help us encourage the residents to take part in recycling. Hopefully, their precinct will be among the first to benefit from having achieved the critical mass in recycling. Sir, some Members may ask, is it possible for us to achieve a critical mass in recycling? For me, the answer is "Yes". In April last year, 2001, we initiated the National Recycling Programme. At that point in time, only 15% of the residents took part in recycling, meaning 1 in 7. By the end of last year, it has gone up to 22%, 1 in 5. By the end of this year, our target is to achieve 1 in 3, and by the end of next year, 1 in 2. In other words, if we continue our momentum in recycling, we can indeed achieve a critical mass in recycling. We have made a good start, but I would admit that there is still room for improvement. Take, for example, some households, even today, are still not issued with green bags, because the recycling company, for whatever reasons, decided that it is not worth their while to issue the green bags to certain categories of households. In some cases, the companies, even though they were supposed to collect the green bags once every two weeks, did not do so regularly. It has not been consistent and thereby created a problem for the households. At the same time, many of the private apartments and condominiums in Singapore are not part of the National Recycling Programme yet because the collection of waste for private apartments does not come under the ENV. Sir, in the coming months and years, we intend to take three actions to further improve the National Recycling Programme. The first action we are taking is to expand the coverage of the National Recycling Programme. In the case of the condominiums, the participation rate today is only 4%. Our aim is to increase it to at least 30% over the next two years. ENV has started working with 14 major managing agents in the private sector to introduce recycling to the condominiums managed by them. Some of them have indicated to us that they do intend to introduce recycling within the next 3-6 months. The second action that we are taking is to improve the quality of service of collection. ENV is now looking into the introduction of what we call "Minimum Quality of Service" (QOS). These QOS standards will be imposed on all the public waste collection companies, and all companies that want to take part in the collection of recyclables. For example, we are looking into the possibility of requiring them to provide 100% coverage to every household within their area of responsibility. It means that they cannot pick and choose. Secondly, door-to-door collection must be done at least once every 2 weeks, and on a fixed day of the week, so as to make it easier and less confusing for the households. Last, but not least, they must be committed to collect a minimum list of recyclables, so that the scope of recycling can be broadened over time. At the same time, we will also encourage them, for example, to place recycling bins in void decks, to supplement the door-to-door collection. Last, but not least, we will continue to strengthen public education, and to improve community awareness. Sir, in this regard, we will be working very closely with the grassroots advisors, Town Councils and so on. For example, we will put up posters on notice boards, in the Town Council Newsletters, and we intend to conduct roving exhibitions at the various community centres. Sir, we believe that these three actions, when taken, will be able to ensure that the operation of the National Recycling Programme will become smoother and, at the same time, lead to a greater level of participation by the households. Hopefully, this will lead to a reduction in incineration, and thereby help to contain any potential rising cost in refuse collection in the future. But, of course, to reduce incineration, household recycling alone is not enough. We will continue to promote recycling in the industries. In fact, we are very happy to see that the level in recycling in the industries has improved last year in the areas of construction and demolition waste, used copper slab, paper, cardboard, and so on. We are also beginning to see the recycling of food waste from the food industry. All these are very encouraging signs. Sir, in the coming years, in order to reach a 60% target by 2012 under the SGP 2012, we have set ourselves much higher targets for a whole host of waste stream. Sir, having addressed our strategy to reduce incineration, I would like to go on to talk about what we can do with the incineration bottom ash, when it comes out from the incinerators. As I mentioned earlier, everyday 1,600 tonnes of incineration bottom ash are being produced from the burning of the solid waste in Singapore. At this moment, they account for two-thirds of the waste that end up in the landfill site in Pulau Semakau. Sir, we believe that if we can find ways to reuse this bottom ash, then over time, we will be able to reduce the demand for landfill. We started doing this with the LTA. A pilot project is now on-going. We were using the Incineration Bottom Ash (IBA) for road construction. If this project is successful, we do intend to broaden the use of IBA. Sir, let me move on to the third strategy, which is to reduce the solid wastes that are not being incinerated, but end up in the landfill site directly. We call it the direct landfill, eg, construction and demolition waste and used copper slab. Today, these are the two top solid wastes that end up in the landfill site directly, and they account for 50% of our direct landfill waste. So, we have decided to set a higher target for recycling these two waste streams. Sir, take for example the case of construction and demolition waste. We are now working with the construction industry to see how we can increase the recycling rate from 85% today to 90% by the year 2012. At the same time, in the case of the copper slab, from 90% to 95%. Sir, yesterday, Mr Ang Mong Seng asked whether something can be done to recycle tree branches, trimmings and so on, and turn them into useful products. Horticultural waste, as mentioned by Mr Ang yesterday, is not small. Every year, we produce about 280,000 tonnes. These are basically generated by the landscape contractors of NParks and the various Town Councils. Sir, our intention, basically, is to create more facilities in the private sector, through the private sector, so that some of this horticultural waste can be turned into compost and charcoal. Two new facilities will come into operation by the end of the year. Our target is to increase the recycling rate for the horticultural waste from 32% today to 70% over the next 10 years. Sir, the overall outcome of these three strategies that I have mentioned - reduce incineration, reuse bottom ash, as well as reuse and reduce the direct landfill, will hopefully help us to reduce, not just the amount of waste, but also the amount of waste for landfill. Today, we dispose about 2,400 tonnes of solid waste in the landfill site, and this quantity is expected to increase to 3,300 tonnes by the year 2012, an increase of almost 50%. We believe that the three strategies outlined earlier will enable us to reduce the waste disposed at the landfill site by 50%. Sir, instead of going up from 2,400 tonnes to 3,300 tonnes over the next 10 years, we should be able to reduce it, from 2,400 tonnes to 1,600 tonnes. And if we can succeed in doing so, we will be able to reduce the need for new incineration plants from 1 in every 5-7 years to 1 in every 10-15 years. But, more importantly, we will be able to extend the life-span of Pulau Semakau from 25-30 years today, to at least 50 years in time to come. Sir, I will now go on to address some of the specific cuts brought up by the Members. Prof. Low Seow Chay asked why do we allow some recycling companies to collect more waste than they could, and as a result pose a fire risk. Sir, ENV is aware that some of the recycling companies do accumulate a large amount of waste at their premises. What they really have to do is to upgrade their recycling operations, so that they can recycle these wastes faster and more efficiently. Under our Innovation for Environment Sustainability Fund, we are working with some of these recycling companies to see how we can help them to come out with new and better methods to recycle their wastes. For example, we are now working with the industry to see how we can process the horticultural wastes to produce compost in a shorter time so that the quality will be more consistent and better. At the same time, we will continue to enforce strict actions against those who deliberately flout the regulations. Over the past five years, we only had two cases of fire in the waste recycling facilities. One case was the wood waste recycling company at Lim Chu Kang. The wood waste caught fire in March 1998. The SCDF conducted an investigation and came to the conclusion that the fire was not set deliberately. So no legal action was taken against the company, but that company did clear the debris very promptly. The second case was the fire in November last year. I think this was the case cited by Prof. Low Seow Chay. As the case is now in court, I will not comment further on the case. 1.00 pm Prof. Low also asked whether there are any rules on enforcement to prevent the refuse trucks from leaking sullage water. Yes, indeed, there are rules and regulations on refuse removal operations. The waste collectors are required to use compaction vehicles for the collection of domestic waste, as well as various organic wastes. They have to minimise the smell and they have to prevent the spillage of waste. Before they embark on the road, they have to drain off the sullage water from the compaction of refuse into sewers in the bin centre. We are aware that there are some trucks that are still not conforming to the rules and regulations. The ENV will continue to take enforcement action, and will pay particular attention to the locations cited by Prof. Low. Prof. Low also asked whether we have any rules to prevent vehicles carrying construction debris and sand from polluting the environment. The lorries are required to cover up the construction materials. The ENV carries out enforcement rounds regularly. Last year, there were 54 offenders. When they are caught, for the first offence, they are fined $150; second offence, $200; third offence, $250. Beyond that, for subsequent offences, these are not compoundable. They will have to go to court and the fines will be determined by the court. Sir, I believe I have addressed the issues relating to the management of solid wastes. I will now move on to address the issue relating to the management of water resources. On 5th April, the Prime Minister said in this House that Singapore will move away from our reliance on Malaysia for water. Yesterday, several Members - Dr Teo Ho Pin, Prof. Low Seow Chay and so on - have also called for the Government to increase our self-sufficiency in water supply. Sir, in 10 years' time, on the demand side, we can expect our demand to go up by about one-third, meaning that we will be consuming one-third more than what we are consuming today. This is on the demand side. On the supply side, the expiry of the 1961 agreement in 2011 will reduce water supply from Malaysia. Basically, the Members are asking, when that happens in 2011, with higher demand and lower supply, will we be faced with water shortage by then? Broadly speaking, Members of the House, as well as members of the public, are concerned with three issues. First, will we have enough water by the year 2011, if the 1961 agreement is not renewed and extended? Second, will we have enough water from 2011 to 2061? Lastly, what happens after 2061? Sir, I am glad to assure this House that even though the 1961 agreement will only expire in 10 years' time, the Government has already embarked on several key projects to increase our own water supply. I will now give the House an update on this. First, we are going ahead with three major projects to increase the supply of the local catchment water. We are going to convert the Marina Basin into a fresh water reservoir. Second, we want to create a new reservoir, down stream of the Lower Seletar Reservoir. Third, we are going to link up all the reservoirs in Singapore, so that we will be able to maximise the yield of the various catchment areas in Singapore. These three projects will be completed by the year 2009. They will significantly increase the supply of our local catchment water from where we are today. Secondly, we are going to proceed with desalination as a new source of water supply. The cost of desalination has come down steadily and rapidly by 50% over the last 10 years. PUB has therefore called a tender for 30 mgd of desalination water. The tender will close on 31st May. The plant will come into production by 2005. Besides desalination, what are the other options? Yesterday, Prof. Low asked whether we can ferry water from Australia, New Zealand, Indonesia and so on. Let me explain to the House that we are talking about securing water supply to meet the long-term requirements of Singapore. We are not talking about having additional supply to solve our problem for one day, one week, next five years or next 10 years. We are securing water supply, hopefully, that will strengthen our supply system for the next 50 years, 100 years and beyond. In this regard, I do not feel comfortable relying on this idea of ferrying water, no matter what is the amount, no matter how cost effective it may be, from places like Australia, New Zealand and so on. As pointed out by Prof. Low, in times of emergency, maybe those options are viable. But, for today, I want to talk about long-term water supply, meaning sources which will be able to provide good quality and substantial quantity of water over a long duration - 50 years, 100 years and beyond - and at a competitive price. Otherwise, over time, we will not be able to contain the cost of water if these water sources are not cost competitive. With that in mind, I would say that the two strategies, which I outlined earlier to expand the local catchment area and to increase water supply through desalination, are what I call the strategies of addition. For example, let us say that in our zoo today, we have only one lion. If we decide that one lion is not enough, and we would like to have four lions, what do we do? One way is very simple. 1 plus 3 equals to 4. So we go out to look for another three lions. We bring them to the zoo. Then, 1 plus 3 equals to 4 lions. So this is the strategy of addition. Sir, there is another approach. Assuming that we have a lion, and why do we not find a lioness? With a male lion and a lioness, they can together produce baby lions. 1 plus 1, multiply by 2 also equals to 4. In other words, as we look for a long-term supply solution, we should not confine our mindset to just looking for new water sources to add to our supply. But, more importantly, we should think about how we can multiply the capacity of our water supply. Sir, this leads me to our third strategy which is to develop water reclamation into a major source of supply in the long-term supply system of Singapore. Some may ask what is the difference between water reclamation from desalination. Why do we say that desalination is addition? Why do we say that water reclamation is multiplication? There is a big difference. Today, we consume 300 million gallons of water per day. Every single drop of the 300 million gallons of water, after being used, is treated by PUB to internationally accepted standard before it is discharged into the open seas. And to make sure that this water is treated to the standard required of the international community, we continuously invest in our infrastructure to ensure that sewage water will be treated properly. This is precisely why we embarked on the DTSS (Deep Tunnel Sewerage System), as mentioned by Mr Zainul yesterday. The DTSS is our long-term solution to ensure that every single drop of used water will be treated properly and in the most cost-effective manner. In other words, the implementation of DTSS is to help us save money in the treatment of used water. It does not incur additional cost. In fact, it saves us cost. Therefore, the concern that the DTSS may lead to higher water prices in the future is unfounded. Secondly, Mr Zainul also asked whether we can find ways to use the DTSS for other utilities. It is a good idea, except that the DTSS is very deep. That is why it is called deep tunnel. It is about 30-50 metres underground. It is too deep for us to use it for electricity, cable and so on. Having said that, let me come back to the point about water reclamation. As I said, every drop of water is now being treated before we discharge it into the open seas. At this moment, only 5% of the water after treatment is reclaimed as industrial water. The other 95%, or more than 280 million gallons per day, is being discharged into the open seas, and is really wasted. Today, with the advancement in membrane technology, it is now possible for us to recover a good percentage of this 95% of treated used water and turn it into clean water again. In other words, we can really give every drop of water a new lease of life. Instead of releasing this water into the open sea, let this treated used water be mixed with sea water, and then take it back to go through desalination, which will be very expensive. Basically, we are saying, why do we not capture this water before it is being discharged into the open sea? So, we turn the treated used water into new water, and we give it a new lease of life, and that is why the PUB has called it the NEWater. Dr Teo Ho Pin yesterday asked whether this strategy is a costly option. Will it be very expensive? In fact, water reclamation has two major advantages. Firstly, it is much cheaper than desalination. In terms of capital cost of the facility for reclaimed water, it is about half that of desalination. Secondly, in terms of energy consumption - energy cost - water reclamation costs only one-quarter to one-fifth that of desalination. Putting the two together, the saving in capital cost and the reduction in energy cost, in fact, NEWater will cost about half to one-third that of the cost of desalination. The second advantage of NEWater is that it is clean. It is even cleaner than PUB water. If we are to look at the total organic carbon of NEWater, it is less than one-tenth of PUB water. Precisely because of that, the industry users find NEWater to be very attractive. Take, for example, the wafer fabrication plants. Today, they take our PUB water and process it to reduce the total organic carbon to a level that is acceptable for their operation. This will cost them money. But starting from next year, all the wafer fab plants in Singapore will be using NEWater instead of PUB water. Why? Because NEWater is cleaner than PUB water, and is more suitable for their operation. Yesterday, Prof. Low Seow Chay asked what are we going to do to market NEWater beyond wafer fabrication plants. Sir, this is a very good question. Our intention is to set up a reticulation system to reach out to various industrial estates and commercial hubs in Singapore, so that over the next 10 years, we will be able to expand the use of NEWater beyond wafer fabrication plants, to various other sectors such as semi-conductors, chemicals, electronics, utilities, engineering and so on. Starting with 15 million gallons per day next year for the wafer fabrication plants, our target is to expand the use to more than 55 million gallons per day by the year 2012. By the year 2012, NEWater or water reclamation will account for at least 15% of total water demand in Singapore. Sir, this increase in our water supply, namely, local catchment expansion by the year 2009, desalination by 2005, and NEWater by 2003 will be more than enough to make up for the drop in Johor water, by the time the 1961 water agreement expires in 2011. In other words, to the question whether we have enough water by the year 2011, the answer is yes. We will have more than enough to make up for the reduction in Johor water. At the same time, this increase in our own supply will enhance our self-sufficiency in water supply. Sir, the next question is: during the period between 2011 and 2061, will we have enough water? During this period, beyond 2011, we expect our total demand for water to continue to increase, as our population continues to grow and the economy continues to expand. On the demand side, we need to conserve as much as we can, a very important point mentioned by Dr Teo Ho Pin yesterday. The PUB has an on-going educational and publicity programme. Over the years, the education programme and the restructuring of our water tariffs have been effective. Take, for example, in 1996 and 1997, the increase in water consumption was about 4-5% a year. By 1998 to 2000, it dropped to 1.2%. Last year, the growth in water consumption continues to decline to 0.5%. Therefore, I share Dr Teo's point that it is very important for all of us to continue to do whatever we can to create this awareness towards water conservation. 1.15 pm At the same time, on the supply side, we will continue to increase our own supply. With the three projects which I have outlined earlier, there is still further scope for us to further expand the catchment areas. At the same time, with the cost of desalinated water coming down, there is still scope for us to continue to increase the amount of desalinated water. But, more importantly, there is still tremendous scope for us to produce a lot more NEWater from 2011 to 2061, and beyond. Sir, let me just share with the House here that the multiplying effect of NEWater is tremendous. For example, if we were to reclaim 50% of the used water, we will be able to double the water supply capacity in Singapore. Today, membrane technology for water reclamation can achieve a recovery rate of up to 75%. At 75%, it means that every drop of water can be turned into four drops of water. This is the power of multiplication. So, the adding to and the multiplying of our water supply system - expansion in local catchment areas, desalination and water reclamation - is a very effective and very powerful combination. Furthermore, the challenge of water shortage is not a problem faced by Singapore alone. It is a global challenge. We can be sure that there is research going on today looking for cheaper and better ways of producing water. We can expect a breakthrough in technology in the coming years and decades. We intend to take full advantage of any technological breakthrough. Sir, on the whole, this diversified platform of water supply will enable us to increase our water supply in a sustainable manner for the next 50-60 years and beyond. Therefore, the answer to the second question, whether we are confident of having enough water from 2011 to 2061, again, is yes. Yesterday, Mr Othman and Mr Ahmad Magad asked whether NEWater is safe to drink and, if so, when do we plan to use it for potable use. The use of reclaimed water for potable use is not new, as pointed out by Mr Othman. This has been done in several parts of USA for more than 20 years. Take, for example, just outside of Los Angeles, a place called Orange County, they have been using water reclamation since 1976 under a project known as Water Factory 21. This Water Factory 21 produces 13 mgd, and is supplied to a population of about 2.5 million. They have plans to increase the capacity of Water Factory 21 to 110 mgd over time. Another example is North Virginia, a place called Fairfax County, just outside Washington D.C. Since 1978, they have been implementing water reclamation for a population of about 1.2 million. Today, this water reclamation plant produces about 44 mgd. Again, they have plans to expand it to 70 mgd. At these various locations, they discharge the reclaimed water into the reservoirs, either aboveground or underground reservoirs. The reclaimed water is then further processed together with the water in the reservoirs, both underground and aboveground. The whole process is what we call the indirect potable use of reclaimed water. This means they do not consume the reclaimed water directly, but go through the process of mixing it with reservoir water and process it for the second time. Members may ask, if we say that the quality of reclaimed water is so good, why then is there a need to process the water one more time, by mixing it with reservoir water? I asked the technical experts and the answer given to me is very interesting. The technical experts told us that the reason they do this - indirect potable use - is not because the reclaimed water is not clean enough, but rather it is because the water is too clean. After going through dual membranes and ultra-violet, it is so clean that the process takes away the minerals and nutrients in the water. As a result, in all these places, what they have to do is to mix the reclaimed water with reservoir water because this is the easiest way to put back the minerals and nutrients into the water. After processing, it is consumed. Sir, another point to note is that while this process of water reclamation started in the 1970s in USA, it is becoming a growing trend in USA and other countries today. Why? Because the technology is improving all the time. The quality of the reclaimed water is improving and, at the same time, the cost of water reclamation is coming down. We were told that in Atlanta, Georgia, they are now building a water reclamation plant. Starting with 15 mgd, which will come into operation by 2005, it will eventually be expanded to 50 mgd. Again, North Virginia, having been very successful with the project that I mentioned earlier, is now building another plant. Starting with 10 mgd, it will come into operation by 2008. Basically, what is happening overseas has given us a lot of confidence regarding the potential indirect potable use of reclaimed water. Sir, in the case of Singapore, the NUS laboratory has been conducting very comprehensive analyses of NEWater to ensure that the water quality is indeed as good as what the technical literature has put it up to be. These analyses are supervised by a panel of experts, both internationally and locally, because we want to make sure that we tap on the best brains in the world. The process started more than two years ago and tests are now on-going. So far, the NUS laboratory has conducted 20,000 analyses over the last two years, and they have established that NEWater is cleaner than PUB water. Normally, we look at water quality from three angles; first, in terms of chemical quality such as the total organic carbon, minerals, nutrients. They have established, after 20,000 analyses, that NEWater is even cleaner than PUB water. Next, in terms of physical quality such as clarity and colour, again NEWater outperforms PUB water. In other words, NEWater is WHO+, because it is able to meet and exceed the World Health Organisation's standards. This explains why it is attractive to the industry for use as high-grade water. The third aspect is the bacteriological quality of the water. This is a very important factor because for potable use, we are concerned about bacteria count, viruses, and so on. Sir, here, I am happy to inform the House that based on the 20,000 analyses so far, they have established that the bacteriological quality of NEWater is as good as PUB water, because the presence of bacteria and virus is not detectable - it is so low. It is just not present in the water, thereby meeting the World Health Organisation's standards again. In other words, if we look at NEWater, it is not only WHO+, it is also PUB+. It satisfies all the WHO's standards and it is even cleaner than PUB water. Notwithstanding that, there is no need for us to rush the process. We intend to take it one step at a time. The next step is for us to await the recommendations from these international experts. We give them enough time to conclude their studies. We expect the recommendations to come to the PUB and the ENV sometime in July. Sir, Mr Ahmad Magad asked when will the Visitors' Centre for NEWater be ready. I am aware that the interest in NEWater is now getting higher and higher. This is a good sign. The PUB is now building the Visitors' Centre at the Bedok NEWater Plant, which will be ready by early next year. At the same time, to make it more convenient for our school students to get to know more about NEWater, we are exploring the setting up of a Visitors' Centre in the Singapore Science Centre. Sir, let me sum up the issue of water supply. As Members of the House have mentioned, it is very important for Singapore to secure our water supply, and to be more self-sufficient. With the increased supply of our local catchment areas, together with desalination and NEWater, we are now diversifying and increasing our water sources from two today - Johor water and local catchment water - to four by the year 2005. In other words, if we look at Singapore as a country, we will have four big national taps. What is even more important to note is that the water coming out from each and every one of these four taps is of equally good quality. Should the supply be disrupted in any of these four taps, the other three taps can provide the mutual back-up to the fourth tap. We do not know what will happen to the supply of these four taps. Maybe drought will reduce the supply of local catchment water. Maybe pollution in catchment areas may reduce the supply of water from Johor. We do not know what will happen. But what is important is that we now have four taps. Whenever the supply in one tap is being reduced because of whatever reasons, at least we have three other taps to provide the mutual back-up. Sir, in this way, our supply system will not only become more cost-effective but, at the same time, more resilient as we become more self-sufficient in our water supply.

can we be completely self-sufficient in the long term? Sir, the 1962 Water Agreement will continue to run until 2061. Therefore, the issue of whether Singapore can be completely self-sufficient does not arise until 2061. After 2061, of course, we do not know whether there will be an extension of water supply from Malaysia. This is an on-going issue being negotiated today. But what is important is for us to recognise that Singapore is an island surrounded by sea water. Today, with the advancement in membrane technology, with the cost of desalination coming down, with the ability to multiply water sources through water reclamation, the answer is: Yes, Singapore certainly can become completely self-sufficient, after 2061, if need be. Sir, let me conclude by saying that I want to assure this House and our people out there that they can count on this Government to do whatever necessary to ensure that we will have enough supply to meet the needs of our industry, of our people, today, in the future, for a long time to come.

Sir, in the Singapore Green Plan, the target for air quality is 85% of good days - "good days" being defined as days when the PSI reading is below 50. I understand that the key pollutants that matter in this regard are sulphur dioxide and also particulate matters. One of the main contributing factors, if we take away the haze, is diesel vehicles. And we know that public transportation in Singapore is the main user of diesel vehicles. Sir, we are now in an era where there is a range of more environment-friendly options. The range includes electric vehicles, hybrid vehicles, right through to natural gas, and so on. So the question is: how actively are we pursuing these options as part of our longer term effort to improve air quality in Singapore? I welcome the initiative of the compressed natural gas pilot project that the Ministry of the Environment has initiated with SBS and also with the taxi companies, ie, Comfort and City Cab. I think 30 buses and 50 taxis are involved. Sir, the questions I have are, first of all, what is the time-frame for this pilot project, and what criteria will be used to assess its success and viability for extension to the broader fleet within the public transportation system? The second question is that the feedback, in general, suggests that the upfront cost of many of these green vehicles is not adequately compensated for by the vehicle rebates that are given by LTA. I believe that there has been some discussion on this in the debate on the budget of the Ministry of Transport. My question for the Ministry of the Environment is, assuming the Ministry of Transport's policy remains unchanged on the matter of green vehicle rebates, whether it is capital or operating cost rebates, what more can the Ministry of the Environment do to encourage public transport operators to adopt the use of more environment-friendly vehicles? 1.30 pm

Dr Teo, you can take your two cuts together.

Sir, my topic is heat island. The Concept Plan 2001 has increased the density and height of future developments in Singapore. High-rise and high-density development will have an impact on the quality of our living environment, such as ventilation, warming, pollution and noise. One area of concern is the build-up of heat in our built environment due to the compact development and lack of cross natural ventilation - this is what we call the wind tunnel effect. This problem is further compounded by the extensive use of airconditioning, which emits hot air to the surrounding areas. Sir, I wish to ask the Minister the following questions: (1) What is the long-term plan to prevent the heating up of our living environment? (2) What are the measures taken to ensure that the air ambient temperature is within tolerable limit? (3) How does the Green Plan 2012 integrate or coordinate with the Concept Plan 2001? My next cut is on green consumers. Human activity has left a permanent mark, potentially increasing the earth's temperature, destroying massive areas of tree cover, and obliterating thousands of living species. When we go shopping, we use public or private transport, and we choose a place to live. Our choices have an effect on the quality of the air we breathe, or the water we drink, and the environment we live in. Everything we do will affect the ecological balance. Sir, I wish to ask the Minister the following questions: (1) What is the long-term plan to encourage "green consumerism"? (2) What are the measures or incentives undertaken by the Ministry to support "green products"? (3) How do we educate Singaporeans to be green consumers?

Sir, I was pleased to learn from MOS Vivian Balakrishnan on Monday that the use of HDB flats for home-based food business is allowed within certain guidelines. Nonetheless, I noted with a tinge of amusement when MOS Vivian added that, eventually, whether these home-based food operators would take off would depend on the Ministry of the Environment. Sir, it would appear that the common complaint we often hear is how the public is referred from one department to another is also making its manifestation in this august Chamber. It seems that, although HDB has given its blessing, it is no guarantee that such home-based food business can take off. Now, I would have to refer the matter to the Minister for the Environment. Coming back to what is foremost in my mind and being an optimist, I am hopeful that the Minister for the Environment and his MOS had followed through the arguments I had put forward to the Minister for National Development in my petition on Monday. As such, I will not labour over the same arguments for advocating an informal sector in Singapore to help the unemployed, and to nurture mum and papa entrepreneurs among the heartlanders by allowing them to use their flat dwellings for operating home-based food business. If this group of people were to be granted licences to distribute and sell their home-based cooked food, it is important that we ensure that the hygiene standards of the food that they prepare are up to the standards prescribed by the Ministry for hawkers preparing and serving food in the hawker centres. Sir, over the last six months, I have seen no less than 10 residents who had been fined for selling food without a proper licence. I raise this matter to the Minister as a matter of public concern, because of the need to meet two seemingly opposing imperatives. On the one hand, I am concerned that we help these unemployed people find temporary sources of income, while they search and wait for job offers elsewhere. On the other hand, we need to ensure that standards of public hygiene, with regard to the handling of food, need to be strictly adhered to. I fully empathise with the Ministry's concerns in respect of granting licences to people who want to operate their food business from their homes and to sell the food. It is not easy to ensure that hygiene standards are adhered to, because of the diffusion of multiple food businesses in the homes of these people. Nonetheless, as advanced in my arguments on Monday, administrative difficulties in doing something should not be used as reasons for not exploring solutions to facilitate the outcomes that we are seeking. In this instance, we can stipulate a number of measures to address these concerns of hygiene standards and quality. For example, we could do the following: organise short educational, food preparation and hygiene courses by the CDCs, and aspiring small scale home-based food operators are required to go through this programme before being issued a licence to sell food. Limit the type of food that can be prepared from home, eg, cakes, biscuits, desserts, satay and other dried food. I urge the Minister to consider these measures in order that his Ministry can justify the issue of such licences. In this way, we can ensure conformance to standards and practices, and this is where the CDCs can come in to ensure this. After all, CDCs were established to provide decentralised service to the constituents to serve them better. I firmly believe policies must be responsive to changing needs and times. Where we have constraints in making change at the Ministry level, the CDCs, at their level, must provide the flexibility to address the needs of these people. Those who do not comply to specifications can have their licences revoked. Another way in which the Ministry, or CDCs, can also maintain a better control of those who have been issued with a licence would be to maintain a registry of these operators. CDCs could consider setting up a central kitchen for these small-scale operators to prepare food and organise for distribution of such prepared food to hawker centres, restaurants and other food outlets. This will spin off a totally new food cottage industry in Singapore. To reiterate what I said on Monday, in fact, the successful Bengawan Solo started its cake business from its HDB kitchen flat many years back. I also understand that in Taiwan, ---

Mdm Ho, you are taking too long again.

--- many of their successful businesses started from home. Our leaders have been hailing Singaporeans to change their mindset. On this premise, I am calling on the Ministry of the Environment to embrace a new mindset. I would like to urge the Ministry to consider granting licences to enable these people to sell their food.

Sir, I would like to thank the Members of Parliament - Mr Iswaran, Dr Teo Ho Pin and Mdm Ho - for the very important issues they have brought up. I will first begin with the issue that Mr Iswaran brought up on air quality. If we look at air quality and look at domestic factors that affect the air quality, certainly, vehicle emissions are the most important. Of the three fuels that can power vehicles - petrol, diesel and compressed natural gas (CNG) - CNG is the cleanest, and diesel the least clean. If we compare CNG to diesel, if we use CNG, we will reduce particulate material emissions by more than 95%, and it will also reduce emissions, things like nitrate oxide, hydrocarbons and sulphur dioxide. So, ENV is taking a pro-active approach to encourage public transport companies to try out CNG buses and taxis. This is because the vehicular emissions from these vehicles are a major source of air pollution. One major initiative we have taken is to work with our industry partners in the establishment of supporting infrastructure for CNG vehicles. The cost of the first CNG vehicle refuelling station in Jurong Island was jointly funded by the gas company and ENV, under the Innovation for Environmental Sustainability (IES) Fund. ENV has also been providing funding support to help defray the higher cost of CNG buses compared to diesel buses, so that the bus companies can experiment with CNG buses and gain a better understanding of the long-term cost effectiveness of operating CNG buses versus diesel buses. ENV is focusing on public buses and taxis as the first step. If the outcome is positive from operation and environmental point of view, ENV intends to facilitate other fleet owners to try out various types of green vehicles to protect our air quality. Sir, these schemes have just started. We need to wait and see how they work out. From this experience, we also need to see what will be the long-term economic feasibility of going completely into CNG. With regard to the issue of higher temperatures in cities, that Dr Teo brought up, this urban heat island concept was attributed to an American meteorologist who pointed out that the temperature of cities is a few degrees higher than that of the surrounding areas. There are two factors that give rise to this. This urban heat island effect is, firstly, caused by the absorption and radiation of heat by man-made surfaces during the day, and the lack of vegetation to provide shade and absorb the heat in an urban environment. The second factor is the heat released into the urban atmosphere by combustion processes from vehicles and from airconditioning and other sources of energy used within the city. ENV, together with other Ministries, is working to reduce the heat island effect by tackling both causes. First, MND, BCA, URA and NParks have already implemented measures that could help to counter, or mitigate, this heat island effect. And these measures include, first, the use of lighter and cooler roofing and pavement materials that do not absorb or radiate as much heat as dark surfaces or materials; secondly, by setting up guidelines, standards and building design codes to reduce the heat trapped within buildings and to incorporate green spaces as far as practicable; thirdly, by planting roadside trees and shrubs to increase the vegetation within the city; fourthly, by provision of parks and gardens around buildings; finally, by promoting roof-top gardens and high-rise greenery under the concept of Singapore as a City in a Garden. The second way of trying to reduce the temperature within the city is to reduce the heat produced by the energy that we use, and we do this by promoting energy efficiency. This is being done under the auspices of the National Energy Efficiency Committee (NEEC). The NEEC recently introduced the energy label scheme for home appliances, such as refrigerators and airconditioners, to promote the use of more energy efficient home appliances. The scheme will extend to other appliances, such as washing machines and TVs. The NEEC is also looking at other initiatives to improve energy efficiency in the industry, building and transport sectors. 1.45 pm With regard to Concept Plan 2001 and the Singapore Green Plan 2012, the Concept Plan 2001 allows more land to be used as green spaces and for further greening of our urbanised landscape. With this increased vegetation, the heat island effect will be reduced. The Singapore Green Plan 2012 complements the Concept Plan by encouraging building designs that make use of better natural ventilation, and hence reduce the need for air-conditioning and, therefore, more efficient use of energy and less use of energy within the city. The Singapore Green Plan 2012 and the Concept Plan 2001 complement each other in our efforts to reduce the temperature within the city. Dr Teo also brought up a very important point, that of green consumerism, that each and every one of us, as a consumer, has an impact on the environment by our choice of lifestyle and the consumer products we use. While some amount of official incentives may be necessary to start off some green product programmes, they are not sustainable and cannot be a permanent solution. ENV has, therefore, been emphasising awareness-building and public education to develop a more environmentally-conscious population. Changing mindsets and behaviour, however, takes time, and requires a comprehensive outreach programme that is sustained over the years. ENV has embarked on an aggressive programme to build a more environmentally-conscious population. This includes making environmental education a life-long process, organising public campaigns such as the annual Clean and Green Week in November, and sustaining the awareness through commemorating international events, such as Earth Day and World Environment Day. We are also promoting community involvement through activities organised by CDCs and grassroots organisations. In addition to these on-going programmes on education, public campaigns and community and grassroots activities, ENV has also launched the Singapore Green Labelling Scheme (SGLS) in 1992. The scheme is administered by the Singapore Environmental Council (SEC). The initial scheme, however, met with limited success. There were several reasons for this. One reason is that many consumers were not aware why a product, as labelled, is considered green. Another reason is that not many consumers were interested in green products, as they were not environmentally-conscious. Consequently, in the past, there was a low demand for green products. Hence, manufacturers were not keen to apply for the label. But ENV and SEC have since worked together to improve the scheme. One way is to provide useful information on the label that would assist consumers in making a choice. For example, the energy label for airconditioners and refrigerators was launched in April 2002. The label provides energy-efficiency information to consumers. This enhancement has met with more interest from the distributors of airconditioners and refrigerators than the old SGL scheme. ENV and the SEC will be extending the energy label to other appliances, such as washing machines and dishwashers. Ultimately, whether the revamped Green Labelling Scheme will succeed will depend on each and every one of us. Manufacturers will respond only if there is a demand for green products. If all of us, as consumers, can make a deliberate choice to support green products, manufacturers will take the cue. This is a concrete way for all of us to demonstrate our support and do our bit for the environment. Sir, I now come to the issue which Mdm Ho brought up, about home-based small food businesses. My Ministry does not allow food intended for sale to the general public to be prepared and cooked at home for public health reasons. The concerns are that food prepared and cooked at home may not be done under strict hygiene conditions at all times, and that the persons handling food in the home may not meet our public health requirements. All persons who handle food intended for sale to the general public have to be medically screened. They also have to pass a course on food handling before they can be registered. Unlike licensed food establishments where their premises are readily open for inspection by our Environment health officers, food preparation and cooking in a residential premise are done within closed doors. This makes inspection and enforcement of public health requirements very difficult. In comparison, a licensed food shop can be inspected at any time the food shop is open for business. No licence, however, is required if a person cooks for his or her friend or neighbours. Such private arrangements are not prohibited. Sir, like Mdm Ho, I am sympathetic with those facing difficulty in finding employment. ENV will not be intrusive and regulate private cooking arrangements among friends, family members or neighbours. However, everyday, many Singaporeans, foreigners and tourists eat out at public establishments with little fear of food poisoning. This is due to the vigilance of our public health inspectors and the high standards of hygiene that they ensure. From a public health point of view, ENV does not intend to allow food prepared for sale to the general public to be done in the closed environment of the home. This is to ensure public health safety.

Let me remind Members that if they make long rambling speeches, we will not be able to finish this Head within the stipulated time. That goes for all other Heads too. Mr Ang Mong Seng.

(In Mandarin): Mr Chairman, we have altogether 124 hawker centres in Singapore, 32 come under the purview of ENV and the remainder under the control of HDB. However, the administration of each hawker centre involves three authorities - the Housing and Development Board for rentals, ENV for licensing and the town council for the collection of maintenance fees and other charges. So, even for a small hawker stall, we have to involve three departments and the administrative costs become unnecessarily high. This could lead to much confusion for the hawkers. When something goes wrong, they do not know where to go for remedy. A stallholder told me that when the hawker inspector came to check on his stall, he found that there was something wrong with the water pipes. The inspector told him that this matter was under the HDB, and he was referred to the HDB. When he went to the HDB, he was told that this was a maintenance and repair matter and it should come under the charge of the town council. He went to the town council only to be told that the piping problem was within the stall, and that it was the stallholder's own responsibility to rectify it. I had to step in to get the town council to look into it. The problem was resolved within four hours. I feel that this kind of problem would not have happened if the hawker centres come under one centralised Ministry, ie, ENV. ENV should be the main coordinator, and handle all matters relating to the hawker centres, such as issuing of licence, collection of licence fees, rentals, maintenance charges and looking after other related problems. In this way, we can have a one-stop service centre under the Ministry of the Environment to administer all hawker centres.

Sir, on upgrading of hawker centres. The hawker centre is one of the places that provides affordable food for Singaporeans, in particular for the low-income people. Watching the trend of prices charged by hawkers, prices are rising. This is partly due to the relatively high prices charged by the stallholders in HDB eating houses, and partly due to the increase in rentals due to tendered hawker stalls. Upgrading, no doubt, will improve the ambience and comfort level of hawker centres. With millions of dollars spent, it is also natural to expect the Government to recover part of the costs through an increase in rental. The amount of rental increase depends very much on the cost of upgrading. I have seen some of the upgraded hawker centres - expensive wall tiles with graphic pattern designs being used. I have also seen some of the conceptual designs. I have seen fanciful roofs and 3-dimensional roof structures have been adopted. All these will lead to an increase in the cost of construction, and may also lead to difficulty maintaining these high 3-D structures. Ultimately, these factors contribute to an increase in rentals and maintenance costs. I would like to ask the Minister what action has been taken at the design stage to keep the cost of construction and upgrading of hawker centres and their subsequent maintenance costs low. Does the Ministry plan to increase rentals after the upgrading and, if so, what plans does the Ministry have to keep food prices as low as possible in the upgraded hawker centres?

Dr Amy Khor is not here. Mr Ang Mong Seng.

(In Mandarin): Sir, during my overseas trips, I had occasions to visit their public toilets. I found that the public toilets in Korea and Japan were very clean and the standard of hygiene there was exemplary. I would say they are the best in the world. However, in China, it is an entirely different story. I was told that the ladies had to carry an umbrella whenever they went to the toilet, because there were no doors at the toilets. However, in preparation for the Olympic Games 2008, they are sprucing up all the amenities, public toilets included. I suppose by 2008, their public toilets will be as exemplary as those in Korea and Japan now. In Singapore, much has to be done to our public toilets too. Years back, when I was in charge of the Island-wide Cleanest Estates Contest, I found that some public toilets were quite clean, but overall the standard of cleanliness and hygiene left much to be desired. If we aspire to become a gracious society, we should improve the overall image of our public toilets. May I ask the Minister what is the progress in the upgrading of our public toilets. As for the toilets in the coffeeshops, some may say that it is the responsibility of the coffeeshop owners to keep their toilets clean. However, the fact is that the use of these toilets is not confined to the customers and staff of the coffeeshops. Members of the public also make use of these toilets, as coffeeshops are public areas and are accessible to members of the public. They are de facto, public toilets, and should be included in the upgrading programme. May I suggest that we have a Public Toilet Cleanliness Contest, so as to encourage the managers of these public toilets to keep the toilets under their charge clean and hygienic, and to contribute to our strive to become a gracious society.

Sir, Prof. Low Seow Chay touched on the issue of upgrading of hawker centres. I want to assure Prof. Low that we are fully aware that upgrading of our hawker centres is a very expensive exercise. It will cost the Government about $420 million over 10 years. In batch one of the programme, the total cost came up to about $120 million. For the second batch, the budget is in the region of $50-$70 million. Therefore, we are equally mindful, as Prof. Low is, on the need to keep the cost of upgrading to as low as possible. Sir, I want to assure Prof. Low and this House that the ENV places emphasis of design basically on a few areas. Firstly, it is to improve ventilation; secondly, to improve the layout for better circulation; and, thirdly, where possible, to put in some handicap-friendly features. At the same time, we try to make the seating arrangements as innovative as possible, so that groups of different sizes can sit together. On the whole, we have been able to contain the costs of upgrading. So far, based on all the tender returns that we are getting, I would say that we are able to derive some savings from our budgetted sum. Notwithstanding what I have said, I can assure Prof. Low that we will continue to be mindful of the need to contain the costs of upgrading. 2.00 pm Prof. Low also made the point that upgrading may lead to higher rentals, and that higher rentals may lead to higher cost of hawker food. I want to clarify that this is indeed not the case. Yes, we spend a lot of money on upgrading the centres, but it is not our intention to recover the costs of upgrading through rental adjustments. Just a few weeks ago, I was at the Adam Road Hawker Centre. It costs us $1.7 million to upgrade the centre. But at the end of the day, the rental adjustment for the stallholders there was only $1 per day. In other words, if we were to try to recover the cost of upgrading through rental adjustment, I work out that we will need something like more than 100 years before we can recover the cost of upgrading. This is not our intention. The whole purpose of upgrading is to ensure that Singaporeans will continue to have a place where they can have good food at affordable prices in a conducive setting. Prof. Low asked whether there is anything we are going to do to ensure that prices at the hawker centres will not go up. Sir, this is an open market. What I can assure the House is that, under the ENV and HDB hawker centres, there are altogether 20,000 hawker stalls. In other words, we should let market forces work to the fullest. If there is any stall that charges higher prices, I would encourage the consumers to stay away from such stalls. On the whole, I would say that the upgrading programme has progressed quite smoothly. By the year 2004-2005, we aim to upgrade one in three of the hawker centres. Mr Ang Mong Seng asked whether ENV would consider taking over the function of HDB in managing all the hawker centres in Singapore. HDB and ENV do work very closely together. But I do see the point brought up by Mr Ang Mong Seng. What I intend to do is to discuss with my colleague at the Ministry of National Development to see whether we can work together, as suggested by Mr Ang, to provide a one-stop service to the hawker centres. Let me go on to the cut on public toilets. Mr Ang asked what is the progress on the upgrading of public toilets. Today, the National Parks, SMRT, bus interchanges, hawker centres and HDB together manage about 1,100 public toilets. Out of these 1,100 public toilets, 800 of them are found in the coffeeshops. Over the years, these agencies I mentioned earlier have implemented a systematic programme to upgrade these public toilets. For example, for ENV and HDB, we have upgraded 52 public toilets at hawker centres at a cost of $5.5 million. Over time, all the public toilets in all the hawker centres will be upgraded under the Hawker Centre Upgrading Programme. Likewise, for the National Parks and SMRT, they also have a formal programme to upgrade their public toilets. However, there is one area where we do not have a formal programme. These are the public toilets at the coffeeshops. As I mentioned, there are about 800 of them. These coffeeshops, as pointed out by Mr Ang, are used not just by the customers, but also by the members of the public. I therefore fully agree with him that it is useful for the Government to see how we can speed up the upgrading of these public toilets at the coffeeshops. I am happy to say that we have decided to launch a new upgrading scheme known as the Toilet Upgrading Scheme (TUP). Under TUP, the Government will co-pay 50% of the cost of upgrading of these coffeeshop toilets up to a maximum of $5,000 for each toilet. This would be made available to all the 800 toilets in the coffeeshops, both rental as well as those that have been purchased. This will cost the Government a total budget of $4 million. We think it is a worthwhile investment. This scheme will start in September. Let me conclude by saying that it is insufficient to just upgrade the toilets, because at the end of the day, it is very important that we take good care of these toilets as well. We intend to mount a 3P partnership programme. We are going to work with the Restaurants Association of Singapore, the Coffeeshop Association, the Singapore Tourism Board, the National Parks Board, grassroots organisations and so on, to heighten public awareness on the need for clean public toilets. At the same time, we are going to improve the standard and quality of public toilet cleaning. We are now working with the Centre for Cleaning Technology, as well as SPRING Singapore. We are going to train all the cleaners of public toilets to make sure that they will have the proper technique and equipment when they clean these public toilets. Last but not least, Mr Ang suggested that we should have an island-wide competition on the "Cleanest Public Toilet". Again, I think it is a very good idea. Since Mr Ang is the man behind the island-wide "Cleanest HDB Estate Competition", I encourage him to organise this competition for the "Cleanest Public Toilet". I assure him that ENV will give him our fullest support. Let me conclude by referring to what Mr Ang said about China. I was in China briefly in December on a holiday in Beijing. I asked a taxi-driver, "Why is your public toilet so clean now?" He mentioned the same reason - they are gearing up for the Olympic 2008. He said, "Look, our leaders told us that a country with dirty toilets has no future." Sir, in the context of Singapore, I would say that a country with dirty toilets has no pride. I hope all Singaporeans would take pride in having clean public toilets in Singapore. Our aim is to turn these dirty public toilets a thing of the past. Therefore, your aim will help!

Sir, I am often reminded that as an MP and Mayor, one must keep close to the ground. I agree. But that is not the only reason why I have this cut on cemeteries. Sir, it is a serious matter of life and death. It is laden with emotions and thus needs sensitive handling. Nevertheless, to moderate emotions with realities, allow me to quote what Senior Minister Lee Kuan Yew said sometime back when asked about the reuse of the Kampong Java cemetery land. SM Lee said, "We have done enough for the dead. Let's worry for the living". Today, we have the KK Women and Children Hospital on the same site, delivering more lives and healthcare for the children. Sir, I would like the Minister to explain ENV's thinking, programmes and efforts at assuring sufficient burial grounds, what plans ENV has to meet that need in land-scarce Singapore. I gather that ENV and MUIS officers have made study trips to a few countries outside Singapore. What are the findings? Will there be any new innovations introduced to make burial better, cleaner and more suitable for Singapore's need to recycle burial grounds? I do not know whether the Minister wants to call it Cemetery Upgrading Programme (CUP). Meanwhile, I hope the Environment Minister would also take a look at the present cemetery ground in Pusara Aman, maybe on a rainy day, to see how messy it can be and see what can be done to give it a decent look there. Finally, right now, ENV is undertaking a major cemetery exhumation exercise at Bidadari. I believe that the contract was offered on a tender basis. Has the Ministry taken sufficient measures to ensure that the sensitivities involved are factored? What are they? I would like to urge ENV to take all measures and steps necessary to make sure that sensitivities are taken care of during the exhumation exercise. I also learn that the contract for providing of columbariums is also done on a tender basis. Is ENV confident that such a method would not lead to escalating prices so much so people might then say, "even to die, not cheap".

Sir, it was reported in the press that the latest attempt of ENV to solve the problem of dengue fever is to breed one new breed of mosquitoes to kill or neutralise the dangerous breed that will cause dengue fever. My concern is: how confident is ENV in ensuring that this initiative is 100% error-free? Is the Minister sure that the bio-science laboratory responsible for the project will not mistakenly unleash another type of mosquito that is more deadly than what we already have here? I would also like to know whether the new breed of mosquito bites and sucks blood like other types of mosquitoes. If so, when the new breed of mosquitoes is released and residents complain of mosquito bites, what should we tell them? Are we to tell them that they are healthy and friendly love bites, so never mind? Sir, despite my concern, it is a quite a bold idea. If the initiative is proven successful and safe here, perhaps, we can export the new breed of mosquitoes to make some money and maybe develop ourselves into a regional mosquito hub.

Sir, I hate to be a pest. My cut is still on mosquitoes. I would like to compliment the Ministry of the Environment for being very proactive. In fact, even before I raise the cut, my question has been answered. You can see from the Straits Times, they did a very good job, about the $100 million war on infectious diseases and bio-terrorism. More than that, they even have a very good expose about what has been done to battle this problem about the mosquitoes and other pests. I would like to just briefly talk about more bites with a hotter weather. I think that is still a problem with El Nino and we can expect a lot more mosquitoes. In fact, some residents are exasperated with this problem to the point that each time when I go on house visits, I always get feedback that the children have been bitten by mosquitoes. In fact, one resident has even sent me a collection of about 200 mosquitoes. It looks like a piece of artwork. But this is just to show how desperate they were. I have given this feedback to my colleague, Mayor Othman, and the ENV apparently has acted on it. They do act fast. But what can ENV do to help alleviate this problem, especially when the weather gets hotter and the El Nino strikes?

Sir, I thank Mr Zainul and Mr Low for their questions. I will begin first with the issue dealing with the dead. Sir, in land-scarce Singapore, both the living and the dead compete for available scarce land. We estimate that the cemetery at Chua Chu Kang can last up to 2064. However, as this is the only cemetery that we have, we are concerned that we need to find ways to extend the lifespan of the cemetery. I am pleased to say that we have found a solution, that we call the Modular Burial System (MBS). The MBS is a system where pre-fabricated rectangular concrete crypts are constructed, forming a grid. Each rectangular crypt is fitted with a concrete lid. When the time comes for burial, the lid for the crypt is lifted to reveal the empty chamber below. The coffin or body is then lowered into the crypt and the crypt is filled with earth. After that, the lid is put back in place before it is covered with a final layer of earth and turf. We have consulted MUIS and a few other religious organisations and they have found the MBS to be an acceptable system. The MBS makes better use of the land for burial. With the MBS, the cemetery land can last up to 2130, an extension of more than 60 years. We agree with Mr Zainul that exhumation must be done properly. We will consult MUIS and other religious and ethnic groups to ensure that cultural and religious sensitivities are taken into consideration in carrying out exhumation. Exhumation would be carried out individually, with dignity and respect. Currently, for the exhumation of Muslim graves, the agency requiring the exhumation, for example, HDB, will appoint MUIS to take charge of the exhumation. ENV will also do the same when exhumation at Chua Chu Kang cemetery commences. With regard to the problem of mosquitoes, because we are situated in the tropics where the weather is warm and humid, we will always have mosquitoes around us. We cannot get rid of them, but we can keep their population size down so that the impact, both as a nuisance and as a vector, will be minimised. In dealing with mosquitoes, we must realise that we are dealing with an ecological situation out there. When we reduce the population of one type of mosquito, it is possible that another species of mosquito, which previously would not be able to thrive, would now increase in numbers. There are two species of mosquitoes that bother us in Singapore, the Aedes and the Culex mosquitoes. The Aedes breeds in clean water inside and outside homes, for example, in vases, roof gutters, pots, plates and litter thrown into bushes. The Culex breeds in dirtier waters, like choked drains. 2.15 pm The only way to keep mosquito population down is to make sure they have little opportunity to breed. Using chemicals to kill the mosquitoes will not help if the sources of breeding remain present. ENV's Vector Control Team, together with pest control companies engaged by ENV, carries out daily surveillance in areas where the vector population is known to be high. We have good ground surveillance system that is linked to our geographical information system (GIS), which will tell us, on a real-time basis, where the build-up of vectors are taking place. However, ENV will need the help of everyone, from the residents, especially those who live in landed properties, to management agents, including Town Councils and, contractors doing construction work, to prevent mosquitoes from breeding within their premises. Sir, regarding the concern about new types of mosquitoes, our scientists are doing research on the various types of mosquitoes and their genetic labelling so that we can better understand how the mosquitoes spread from one region to another, and what factors allow one population to increase, while another decreases. I can assure Members of Parliament that we have no intention of creating new species of mosquitoes in our laboratories that we are going to release into the environment. That is something that we are not doing.

Yes, Mr Zainul. We are running out of time, Mr Zainul.

Mr Chairman, if Mr Ang Mong Seng is not going to crow on the other cut, I would like to inform the Minister that he did not answer my question about the tender system.

In general, Sir, the tender system is the best and most efficient way of deciding how a project is to be done. If the contractor meets the tender specifications, then we would have no problem with it. If there is any specific problem with the contractor, Mr Zainul can bring it up with our Ministry, and we will look into it.

Sir, I wish to thank the Minister and the Minister of State for their comprehensive replies. I am very impressed by the performance target set by the Ministry, and I am very confident that the Minister will bring in more lionesses to safeguard the interest of Singapore. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head L of the Main Estimates be reduced by $10 in respect of Code LC 1500.

(In Mandarin): Sir, my cut is only for $10, so I am only going to ask five very simple questions, $2 per question. First, does the Minister know how many crows we have in Singapore? Second, the Ministry of the Environment has engaged professional shooters to cull crows. How many have they culled so far? Third, many residents complained that some elderly people were attacked by the crows. Is there any plan to prevent that from happening? Fourth, is there any plan to stop the propagation of crows? And fifth, I was told that some crows flew from Johore Bahru to Singapore in the day and then fly back to Johore Bahru at night. Is there any plan to stop them from flying in?

Sir, I shall be brief. First, the crow population in Singapore today is about 120,000. Second, we have a culling rate of about 60,000 crows a year. In the last three months we have culled the same number of crows as the whole of last year, and so our culling programme is extremely successful. We hope to bring down the crow population eventually to about 10,000 in Singapore. Crows do not normally attack people. They may do so only if provoked, or they perceive a threat to their nestlings. So we do not think that crow attacks are really a big problem.

Mr Ang, would you like to withdraw your amendment?

I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $456,276,240 for Head L ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $674,608,900 for Head L ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

Head Q -

Head Q, Ministry of Information, Communications and the Arts. Amendment No. (1), Mr Seng Han Thong.

Sir, I beg to move, That the total sum to be allocated for Head Q of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100.

Sir, investing in cultural capital is MITA's new vision. Arts is now viewed as investment capital as opposed to consumption. In short, arts is not just for arts sake, but also for business sake. Any concept which promises job creation and economic growth is, of course, welcome in these difficult times. I must congratulate MITA for its creativity in extending and repackaging the Renaissance City Report by adding a business element, so that expenditure in the arts is increasingly seen as an investment, something that will reap economic rewards. However, I must say that a close scrutiny will show that both the cultural capital and the Renaissance proposal bear similarities. The three tenets of the cultural capital are: (1) Creative cluster; (2) Creative people and workforce; and (3) A connected nation. The fact that a creative cluster engaged in traditional and the fine arts can become a potential growth engine for our economy has already been recognisd in the Renaissance City Report. "Creative people and workforce" was "Renaissance Singaporeans", and "Connected nation" was "Renaissance Nation and Society". What is new is perhaps the new emphasis on the sector of applied arts, ie, design, media and advertising. When fused with artistic innovation, it is hoped that we can come out with new products and services. Sir, to devise such a thorough and far-reaching proposal must have required a fair bit of time and energy. I am sure the ideas behind them are sound, but why two reports when one will do? In the same vein, we can allocate resources to push through the reforms envisioned under the Renaissance City Report rather than putting our entire arts community through another round of brainstorming and vision seeking. On this note, I would like to add a few ideas. First, the Green Paper should argue for the increase of funding for arts. I know that in these difficult times it is hard to argue for more money to spend on arts, something which many see as a luxury. However, as the Ministry has already acknowledged that spending is now a form of investment in the economy, we have no reason not to spend more to stimulate growth through arts spending. Second, Sir, in order to introduce arts at all levels, we have to start at our education system, to build an arts loving society. I am happy to note that we will have an arts school soon. Let us dare to dream of an arts university in the future. Funds for the Arts Education Programme (AEP) have now increased to reach 50% of the student population. But, from what I know, AEP, in most schools, amounts to merely sponsoring tickets for students. Of course, parents also have to change their mindset. Parents want their children to be a doctor over a violinist, a lawyer over a writer, a teacher over an actor. Our children are told that this is a pragmatic world, one cannot live on the arts, keep it only as a hobby - as the Chinese say, er bu si, chi bu bao. Sir, arts education must have a bigger role to play in the life of our young, otherwise we can forget about the creative cluster of a cultural capital vision. It will never create 5% of our GDP. Finally, Sir, there must be a sizable arts industry in order to provide sufficient job opportunities. Some, like the film industry, involve high overhead costs. This is where funding comes in. Hence, we come a full circle. If arts is to be seen as an investment, we must have not more visions and reports but a sound and solid business plan. We need to have a clear direction of where we are heading, where are the returns we expect on our investments, and how we can exhibit. Sir, I am not saying that everything must reduce itself to dollars and cents. Instead, what I want to see are implementation plans, and the enhancements to what is already a very good blueprint.

Sir, I support MITA's vision to develop Singapore into a creative and connected place. Arts and culture can definitely play a significant role in the economic and social development of Singapore. We must aim to develop Singapore into a culture hub. It should also, at the same time, attract more tourists to Singapore. Cities like Paris and Edinburgh are good examples of places which have developed the arts and cultural capital to boost economic activities and community bonding. Sir, I wish to ask the Minister the following questions: (1) What are the plans to develop cultural capital in Singapore; and (2) What are the key performance indicators to measure cultural capital?

Sir, I was a little disappointed to note that the budget allocation to MITA stood still at 1.5% for Financial Year 2002. It is a moderate increase of $20.94 million to $425.53 million, in absolute terms, but nevertheless, I was hoping to see more. Many may ask, in such time when many face unemployment and economic hardship, is there room for arts and culture? The answer is a resounding "Yes." Perhaps, more so now, because it is in critical times like this that we need to delve deeper into ourselves and bring out the intrinsic value of our rich cultural capital from within, so as to achieve a breakthrough. Let me illustrate my point with an example. Sir, how much is a watch worth? It can be $10, $100 or tens of thousands, depending on who created it, which artist has his hands on it, and which musician puts a tune in it. In the 1980s, when the famous Swiss watch-making industry was facing laggard sales and serious threats from high-tech, lower-cost Japanese products, a man called Mr Nicholas G Hyak took an ordinary mass-produced watch and got a few artists to exhibit their works on it. He said, "We have to give Swatch a warm heart and soul so that people would love it." As such, within a short span of five years, Swatch, a plastic watch company, became the largest watch making company in the world. Capitalising on cultural diversity of a nation brings a breath of fresh air into the watch economy, and put a piece of Switzerland onto many people's wrist. In fact, it has got a back-end added value of promoting tourism in Switzerland as well. Singapore can do the same too. In fact, Singapore has a very rich cultural capital. With the diversity of race, language, religion and a highly cosmopolitan city, we are in a good position to tap on our cultural capital to give us an edge in the competitive world. A few examples are the Banyan Tree, and Creative Technology who has recently created the ProdiKey. These are all very good examples of combining arts with music and culture into traditional and technological platforms. As such, my questions are: (1) What are some of the programmes that we have put in place to tap on our cultural capital so as to bring this diversity into our technology, and into our products? (2) Is this funding sufficient as proportionate to the value that it can bring to our economy? (3) Is this funding sufficient as proportionate to the role that it plays in making Singapore a vibrant cosmopolitan, as well as it being a social glue? If I could coin the 5Cs in cultural capital, the 5Cs would stand for: (a) Creativity - which is the power to invent and innovate; (b) Connectivity - which is the power to connect people on a heart and soul level; (c) Capability - which is helping all our artists, our other talents to come in and contribute to our economy; (d) Competitiveness - because it makes an ordinary product extraordinary, it makes it unique and gives us the competitive edge; and (e) Community - because it brings together groups of people with different talents to communicate with each other to create new things from this collaboration. Last, but not least, I would also ask, as some of my colleagues have asked, what are some of the yardsticks that would be used to measure the success of germinating this cultural capital, both from the economic and social perspectives. I would like to add that we should bear in mind that arts and culture, or the germination of a cultural capital itself takes time to come to fruition. And, as such, the measurement used to determine the ROI from such investments should be different from that of mere statistics alone. 2.30 pm

Sir, as we grow and mature as a nation, we have to look at our development in a wider perspective than just in the economic sense. There is an increasing need for us to grow and develop our cultural capital. The strategy to grow our cultural capital is laudable and long overdue. We must understand that many used to consider the arts and culture as a luxury. This view is passe, and there is a need for a major mindset change. We must take the opportunity in our process of remaking Singapore to make this shift. We must view the arts and culture as an integral part of our development and growth. Our cultural heritage is rich and multi-faceted. We should harness this vast potential and exploit it to our advantage. The investment and resources that we allocate to the arts and culture should not be seen as wastage. We have to look at the long-term rewards, and the intangible returns, ie, a more culturally rich and vibrant Singapore. We need, over the long term, to portray Singapore not only as a place of economic excellence but also as a centre for artistic excellence. To recapitulate what was said by Dr Ng Eng Hen yesterday, the congregation of brains and minds would attract investments. I would further add that congregation of brains and minds in a vibrant and artistically and culturally rich environment will be ever sweeter for investors. In conclusion, in view of the growing importance of this aspect of our country's development, I would encourage the Minister for Finance to allocate more resources to MITA. Over time, we should accord more funds to the Ministry than the 0.3% of GDP as it is today.

Sir, we are now in the process of remaking Singapore. I would therefore like to join my fellow colleagues to ask the Minister if he would share his vision on the role of arts and culture in the strategy to remake Singapore. In particular, we are searching for competitive advantages for a changed world, and here we must exploit all our strengths. Our arts and cultural heritage does not need to be "nice to have". Art and cultural centres of the world have exploited arts and culture as a source of growth. For example, London and Paris have used arts and culture to lure both tourists and talents. We can do the same. I would therefore like the Minister, in his reply, to address, if possible, the role of arts and culture as a strategic tool for our economic development and competitiveness.

Sir, the other day, Prime Minister Goh Chok Tong spoke about attempts by the Government to try and uplift the morale of Singaporeans. So far, in Parliament, the only thing that we hear are about the downturn of the economy, the doom and the gloom. Really, arts and culture should be for all seasons. When times are good, there are reasons for us to celebrate. When times are not so good, arts and culture can indeed uplift the mood of Singaporeans. Therefore, I would suggest that the Ministry take a contrarian view as far as the budget provision is concerned. If we think that the economy is not likely to be good, in fact, we should give more money to the Ministry, so that there would be the enhanced outreach programmes to the people. In fact, in the budget provision, the outreach programmes have plateaued. I do not see efforts being made to enhance these outreach programmes. We remain ambitious to achieve the middle class society. I think, as we attempt to more forward in our economic ladder and with a better educated population, two-thirds of Singaporeans are receiving tertiary education. The intangibles become important. Singaporeans are no longer materialistic. They are very interested in the things of the spirit and the soul, and arts and culture become very important. Singaporeans are well travelled. They are exposed to top displays and performances. We are also talking about attracting top talent to Singapore. So it is very, very important for a society like ours that we have this wholesome living, this quality of life that we are looking at. The Ministry of Information, Communications and the Arts is really a very young Ministry. It is only about 10 years old. It is a very long journey. I think we have made very good progress, and we should encourage the Ministry to press on. Sir, I just want to ask the Minister about the balance of the three sectors, of Government, private and people sectors. I believe too much is imposed on the private sector to provide the funds. I think the Government can do more, because we have not developed the patronage system as yet. So it is not easy to get the private sector or even the people sector to cough up the money. Maybe the Government should put as much seed money as possible. The other thing is the question of job creation opportunities. In times where jobs are difficult to come by, this is an area where jobs could be created. Finally, Sir, I have a query about Capitol Cinema. It is in my constituency. When Capitol Cinema was closed, it was intended to become a theatre. It has been mothballed for a long while. One of the problems with eviction is that when the place becomes empty, the whole place gets hollowed out. And that is always the problem when there is lack of synchronisation between the party that acquires Government buildings and filling up the place. I am waiting to see when Capitol Cinema will come back to life again.

Sir, arts and heritage play an important role in helping to build a cohesive and gracious society. It strengthens the sense of belonging of our people and enhances their quality of life. As a young country, Singapore must chart clear directions to promote arts and heritage. Sir, I would like to urge the Government to provide more resources for MITA to work closely with community-based organisations to organise more arts and heritage programmes for our people. Sir, I also like to ask the Minister the following questions: (1) What is the masterplan for the arts and heritage programme in Singapore? (2) What is the strategy to promote arts and heritage to our people? (3) How much resources are allocated for arts and heritage programmes?

Sir, I was delighted to hear during one of the briefings for the GPC for MITA, that they have an Arts Everywhere programme. I was delighted because the Arts Everywhere programme means that it will enable everyone to appreciate and to partake in the process of enjoying the arts itself. However, I would like to also ask whether it is just arts everywhere, or is it arts everywhere, arts everyone and arts every time as well. Sir, to inculcate a nation that breathes and lives art, the art and heritage initiatives have to permeate every strata of the society, making its presence felt everywhere, lives in everyone and present every time. To quote Prime Minister Goh in his National Day Rally speech last year, he said: 'In new Singapore, there will be abundant opportunities for Singaporeans and global talent to work and do well. New Singapore will be one of the world's finest most livable cities. Arts, theatres, museum, music and sports will flourish.'

To quote him again:

'Our city will not only have that, but also the richness of diversity. But above all, Singapore will be a home for Singaporeans.'

As such, I would like to ask MITA if they would consider extending their Arts Everywhere programme on a faster scale, as well as beyond a few centralised locations, beyond that of arts that is appreciated only by the elite, and expand beyond just a few major events like the Arts Festival or the Womad. What initiatives are there to bring arts and culture to the heartlands, and what funds are available for community-in-partnership programmes? I hope there will be more initiatives and at a quick pace that could be generated within the next year.

Sir, I was very much encouraged to read in the newspapers the other day that MITA is pursuing the concept of cultural capital, ie, the synergy between arts and enterprise. I really do think that this is long overdue, because for too long, the arts have been regarded as the poor cousin to sciences in Singapore. When we were a developing country, we could understand the need to push science and technology. But I think that concept, in the present changing global economy, is a little outdated, because the arts does have a tremendous economic value. In this regard, I really think that the budget for MITA should be increased. I see arts not just as something for arts sake. I am a firm believer in arts for arts sake, but the problem is that I do not think that artists can live off talent and fresh air alone. They obviously need funding. They obviously need a demand for the arts and the creative sciences. I was wondering if the Ministry could comment on whether it sees Singapore as a potential design centre for the region, because there is a big demand for design in furniture, handphones, computers. The Scandinavians are especially good at this, but we do not have a reputation for this in Southeast Asia. So, I was wondering whether Singapore could be developed as a design centre. The second area is in fashion. Fashion, obviously, is often regarded as frivolous - girls' stuff. But the thing is that it is actually a multi-billion dollar industry. And I do not think that, in Singapore, we have actually fully tapped into this. New York, London, Paris, Milan are fashion capitals of the world, but not a lot of the manufacturing goes on there. Their value is actually as a design centre for fashion and, of course, they outsource the manufacturing. I was wondering whether it would be possible to develop Singapore as a fashion centre of the East, something which Thailand is aiming to do, but perhaps we can pip them to it. And whether, possibly, we could have something like a weekend fashion street to allow young designers to display their designs and sell them. The reason why I say this is because we should not put them in shopping centres where the rents are high. Let them go to somewhere where the rents are relatively low. They can sell their designs and the acid test of whether their design is good or not is whether people will actually buy it. And this is something where tourists can go as well, because the demand is not always for branded goods, but sometimes for street fashion - things which are considered as edgy and funky. Finally, I would like to ask the Ministry what are the plans to develop Singapore as a cultural hub, certainly in terms of concerts and performances. Again, this has an economic reason behind it. If we want to attract MNCs and expatriates to Singapore, one of the reasons why they might choose Singapore over another country is when they look at lifestyle. If they had to make a choice between Singapore and Hong Kong, if all else remains equal, if we are able to offer a better lifestyle in terms of arts, performances, concerts, we might have an edge. Sir, I would be very grateful if the Minister could answer that.

Sir, may I first thank Mr Seng Han Thong and all the other Members who have just spoken for their enthusiastic support for the arts, especially for the call for more money. Perhaps they could repeat that another day when the Minister for Finance is in the House. Sir, Members have pointed out that the arts has economic value. Indeed, our economy has changed, and we are now restructuring the economy and, likewise, the arts is at a turning point. What I would like to do, before I answer the specific suggestions that have been raised, is to sketch out MITA's new vision for the arts. To get the most value out of the arts, we need to have a new way of looking at the arts. But this is a difficult task to do, because many of us look at the arts as something of an indulgence, something that is for the well-heeled, the rich and those who have the time to spend. 2.45 pm Sir, to help me illustrate this point, I brought along a piece of unusual art. If I may, I will hold it up for Members to see. At first glance, this is a very ordinary picture. It is a picture of rows of flower baskets. But this is no ordinary picture. This is a stereogram. Stereograms were all the rage several years ago, all over the world. You see, Sir, within this picture, there is a hidden picture, and this is a picture that you can only see if you have the technique to look at it. It is a special technique. But if you know how, you will see that within this picture, right in the middle of it, is one big heart of flowers. Sir, the problem is most of us are very frustrated when we look at this and do not see the heart. The problem is that we have been taught our whole lives, when we look at a picture, to focus on the picture. But we can only see this heart if we do not focus on this picture, but that we focus in front of it. I can cross my eyes like that [indicating] or focus my ends behind it. Like, if I held it up, I look at you while looking at the picture. Sir, this is a fusion of arts and technology. But I bring up this illustration because unless we take a different way of looking at the arts, unless we move away from our notion that the arts is only for the well-to-do or is an indulgence, then we would not begin to see the potential that the arts has for the economy. Now, let me share MITA's vision. Today, the arts plays three roles. Firstly, the arts keeps alive our traditions and culture. Whether it is gamelan music, or Teochew opera, the arts connects us with our heritage, one of the "Cs" that Ms Penny Low brought up. We may not understand the opera, but watching it somehow gives us a sense of identity and belonging. Or as Ms Penny Low also said, the arts provides the "social glue" that keeps us together, and I think most of us accept this view of the arts. Secondly, the arts is also important for the sheer enjoyment and wonder that it brings. It arouses our emotions, and stimulates our minds, and it makes us feel alive. The arts reminds us that there are some things that money cannot buy. It lifts our human spirit. It affirms our humanity. I think most of us would also agree with the second view. Thirdly, even though the arts is important in and of itself, we can leverage on the power of the arts and especially the fusion of arts, business and technology to spur the growth of a creative economy and to make Singapore a vibrant city. The arts has economic value, but here, I think, is when not everybody agrees. It is true that artists are often driven solely by their passion. They may create images or play music only because they want to express their innermost thoughts and feelings. But whatever their motivations, their performances add life and zest to our community, and create economic benefits perhaps in more ways than they intend. Here, let me expand on some of the ways that the arts can and do create economic value. Firstly, as Dr Teo pointed out, the arts attracts tourists. This creates jobs for Singaporeans. For every dollar that a tourist spends on the arts, Singapore Tourism Board estimates that $1.80 is spent on other things, like food and accommodation. Can we do more? Yes, we can and will. NAC and STB collaborate closely to make the arts one of the attractions for tourists. The NAC estimates that up to 5% of the people who attended the Singapore Arts Festival last year were tourists. But that is just 5%, at most, a mere 8,000 people. So there is clearly potential here to do more. Our new performing arts centre - the Esplanade - Theatres on the Bay - which will be a world-class performing centre, will give us a big boost in this direction. Secondly, the arts creates economic value because it makes talented people want to live in Singapore. And we all know that talents create jobs. Our first priority is to develop and retain our own home-grown talent. Offering them good jobs is one thing. But we also need to offer them interesting, exciting and fulfilling lifestyles. If through the arts, we can make Singapore the preferred choice of our own home-grown talents, then, I think we also have the chance of attracting international talents. Thirdly, as many of the Members have said, the arts is also an industry. In developed economies, like the US and the UK, the creative and copyright industries, that is, activities such as advertising, film production, music, fashion and design, account for between 5-7% of the economy, and they are growing more rapidly than the total economy. We should therefore build up our applied arts industry, as Mr Seng has urged. MITA, together with our economic and educational partners, will launch a new design initiative to develop our design capabilities. We would include fashion, as suggested by Ms Indranee, but we also want to go beyond fashion to exploit the value of design across all sectors of the economy. Media and content creation are also good industries to promote. We have a good chance of turning them into a new growth area if we can leverage on our strength in digital technologies such as animation and multi-media, and promote more companies to set up pre- and post-production facilities in Singapore. Perhaps, one day, we can get Harry Potter or Gandalf, or Yoda, to make a movie in Singapore, and to conjure the magic here. Or perhaps it will be a combination of Mulan and Lara Croft fighting the toy soldiers. The possibilities, of course, are endless. Finally, the arts helps to make us a more creative economy. The arts shapes the way we think. It challenges us to think out-of-the-box, and develops new habits of looking at things from unusual perspectives. If we practise these new habits, then, over time we develop a more curious spirit and a more probing mind. Such a change will help promote original and critical thinking in every sector across the economy, so that creativity becomes our natural response to challenges. Sir, the arts and culture have always been an essential part of our society, enhancing the quality of our lives and shaping the character of our communities. But, today, in a globally and sharply competitive world, the arts plays an important economic role. So this, then, is our new vision for the arts: That it adds vim and vitality to our city, drawing tourists, and keeping talents. That it drives new industries and creates new jobs, and opens up new employment opportunities for Singaporeans. Most of all, that it makes us a more creative people, equipped and energised to drive a creative economy. Now, Sir, let me move on to address a number of specific issues Members have raised. Mr Loh Meng See raises a pertinent point when he calls for the conservation of certain old buildings, like the Capitol Cinema, to retain our heritage. Such projects require the concerted effort of various agencies, such as the URA, STB and NHB, and also the private sector. I assure Mr Loh that these agencies will work actively to identify suitable uses for old buildings, including the ones owned by the Government. Mr Zainudin wanted to know whether the money spent on the arts has brought the sought after benefits. Over the past two years, additional funds under the Renaissance City Project (or RCP) have enabled MITA to support more artistes and to bring the arts to wider audiences. Let me cite a few examples. In FY 2000 and FY 2001, about $7.5 million and $8.3 million were disbursed through NAC's grant schemes respectively. This higher funding enabled our artistes to develop new works and also to perform overseas to gain wider exposure. The funds also provide 31 individuals and 66 arts groups with affordable space to practise their art under the NAC's Arts Housing Programme. Last year, Singapore hosted more than 4,500 art events - so on any one day, you've got more than 10 things you can do - attended by about 940,000 people at ticketed events - these are the highest figures we have ever seen in our local arts scene. Compared to 1997, the number of events has increased about 60% while audiences have grown 25%. This is not explosive growth, but it shows a steady and sustained interest in the arts. So we have made progress. Mr Loh Meng See suggested that we work more closely with university and polytechnic students to tap them, both as audiences and artistes. I agree, but the process of exposure should start earlier. This is the aim of the joint MITA-MOE Arts Education Programme, which reaches out to primary, secondary, JC and ITE students. Mr Seng Han Thong expressed his hope that everyone will develop an appreciation for the arts. I agree. To achieve this, we need to change people's perception that the arts is only for the rich or well-educated. We can only do this by giving more people a first-hand experience of the arts. Some arts groups are already doing quite a bit of this. The SSO performed in Tampines earlier this year, attracting about 2,000 people. Last month, STB's performance at West Coast Park drew 3,000 people. But we can and will do more, and it will not plateau, as Mr Loh Meng See fears. MITA will launch an "Arts Everywhere" movement to bring the arts to everyone, every time, to make the arts a part of our everyday environment. We will partner agencies like HDB, CDCs and grassroots organisations, to bring more performances to neighbourhood parks and community halls. We will also develop mobile exhibits that can travel to the heartlands. Mr Seng will be glad to hear that many of these performances and programmes will be free. But if you want to buy a painting, you have to pay for it. But, Sir, nothing is really for free. Ms Penny Low asked, given our new vision for the arts, and the contribution of the arts to the economy, whether we have set aside sufficient funds to promote and develop the arts. The RCP funds have given the arts a boost, and helped to make Singapore a more "happening" place, indeed, a more funky place, as Ms Indranee said. With our new vision for the arts, and with the support of hon. Members of this House, MITA will continue to make a case for higher Government funding and for the arts to develop a creative economy, both in good times and bad. But, at the same time, we need the continuing support of the private sector. The private sector has been supportive. But MITA will continue to develop new programmes to create a stronger partnership with them, to unlock the value of the arts in business, and to bring about mutual benefits. Sir, quite a few Members have asked how we can measure the impact of the arts on our society and economy. We can measure the impact of the arts on our economy from the number of tourists, or the output of the creative and copyright industries, or the number of talented people who will make Singapore their home. But we cannot measure in dollars and cents how the arts contributes to our social bonding. What value can we place on the Singapore heartbeat, or the happiness that we feel after listening to an orchestra play, or the sense of pride that beats within us when others speak well of our communities and our nation? These are priceless. We need a new mindset towards the arts. Like seeing the big heart in that stereogram, this is easier said than done. But once you see it [indicating], once you are able to see the heart within the picture, you always see it. If we succeed, if we are able to have a paradigm shift in the minds of all Singaporeans, then Singaporeans will see that the arts contributes to the well-being of our society, as well as to the creation of new jobs, and greater competitiveness of our economy. Then the arts will no longer be something that we have got to push people to support. But like the air it breathes, it will become an essential part of us. That is the vision of the arts that MITA will work towards.

Order. I propose to take the break now. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Order. I suspend the Sitting and will take the Chair again at 3.20 pm. Sitting accordingly suspended at 3.00 pm until 3.20 pm. Sitting resumed at 3.20 pm

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

Head Q (cont.) -

Sir, MITA's vision is to develop Singapore into a global city for information, communication and the arts, while enhancing our Singaporean identity and multicultural heritage. I read from the Straits Times Life! section on 10th May that the Ministry has an interesting approach, that is, arts plus business plus technology provide the catalyst through cultural capital to build a creative and connected Singapore. Sir, one of the key goals of the Ministry is to develop Singapore into a global media city. I must commend the Ministry for making significant progress in this area. Today, major media names, like BBC, Dow Jones and satellite broadcasters, like HBO, Walt Disney, ESPN and Discovery, all have facilities in Singapore. I would like to ask two questions. First, what is the Ministry's assessment of the progress of Singapore's development as a media city? Is the Ministry monitoring closely the developments in other countries? I am particularly impressed by the rapid growth of Dubai as a media hub in the Middle East. It launched a hi-tech, multimillion dollar Media City in January last year, as part of the plan to make Dubai the region's information and IT capital. Is there anything that the Ministry can learn from Dubai's rapid growth as a media hub? Second, the issue of censorship. Does our censorship policy hinder our growth as a media hub? Let me cite one example. We have been trying to develop Singapore's film industry. Over the years, we have had hits like "Money No Enough" and "I Not Stupid". We also had some other misses. Recently, there was a critically acclaimed film "Lan Yu" that was shown at the Singapore International Film Festival. Granted that the film may not be seen by a wide audience here due to our censorship guidelines, my question is: can such films, however, be produced here for foreign audiences?

Sir, the partial liberalisation of the media industry has resulted in some form of competition. Some may argue that, as a result, the consumers have benefited. The choices for local newspapers, TV and radio have increased. Furthermore, with the availability of cable TV, we are all spoilt for choice. My concern is the quality and standards of the local media. After all, the dust has settled. Can we really say that the partial liberalisation has achieved its objectives and, in turn, increased the standards and quality for the general benefit of the public? Sir, Singapore aspires to be a media hub for the region. But, on the other hand, we also exercise a cautious and strict control over the media industry. I would like to ask the Minister to give his position on standards and highlight the regulations that are in place to ensure our media companies are not controlled by foreigners. I totally agree with the Minister that there is a vast potential for content development and production. This area needs enhancement and boost. I would just like to cite an example. A few days ago, we were fortunate to welcome the delegates from Iran. We asked them how they managed to grow their film industry and the kind of statistics that they cited to us was quite impressive for a country, like Iran. It produces 60 to 70 films a year and about 2,000-3,000 amateur films per year. They have also attained international recognition and won several international awards. Just recently a country like Bosnia, which is stricken by war and trouble in the country, managed to win the international foreign award at the Academy. So these are the examples that we can see. For a country like Singapore, we can learn from countries which are having difficulties and yet they are able to grow their film industry. So I would like to ask what are the plans of MITA to boost this area.

Sir, Mr Zainudin has asked whether competition in print and TV media has improved the quality of these media. And Mr Yeo Guat Kwang has asked for a progress report on the development of the media industry. When we introduced competition in the print and TV media in June 2000, we hoped that this would give viewers and readers more media choices, higher quality content, including better news. We also wanted to make our media companies stronger, and better positioned to compete in a multimedia world. After two years, viewers and readers have more choices. There are two more English language papers and a net increase of one free-to-air channel. There are more news and current affairs programmes on television. TV viewership and newspaper readership are up about 6-8 percentage points. And I am glad to say that the Programmes and Publications Advisory Committees have observed that the overall quality of both print and broadcast media has been maintained. Competition has also brought about innovations. New formats have been introduced for TV news, some channels leveraging their presentations off their pool of print journalists. The main local newspapers have introduced new features and offer more in-depth analysis and discussion of issues. The media companies have also started to link and cross-promote their contents across different media, such as TV, newspapers and the Internet. Take one example, Channel NewsAsia is increasingly recognised as a reliable and credible information source with a distinct Asian voice, especially in the wake of the September 11 incident. It not only provides Singaporeans with excellent news coverage, but now reaches more than 10 million homes across 15 countries in the region. So overall, we can say that competition has given consumers in Singapore more choices and we are beginning to see some of the sought after benefits in the industry. Competition for free-to-air television and newspapers is currently between two media groups, each dominant in one field of media. So far, competition, while keen, has not been dysfunctional. However, our local media plays an important social role, and we must therefore ensure that social goals are not compromised as a result of competition. For example, we want to ensure that a certain amount of local programming is available during prime time on television. And we do not want our newspapers to compete for readers by sensationalising the news, or publishing sleazy articles. To ensure that neither group abuses its dominant position, and that quality does not decline, MITA is planning to implement a competition code later this year for the media sector. A draft code prepared by MITA's consultants has been circulated to the media industry for comments. Sir, as to Mr Zainudin's point and concern about foreign influence, I think he need not be concerned about this, as this is adequately taken care of by the existing rules under the Newspaper and Printing Presses Act, as well as the Singapore Broadcasting Authority Act. 3.30 pm From a broader perspective, the media industry goes beyond free-to-air television and newspapers to include all types of content creation and content delivery formats. This is a rapidly changing industry that offers new opportunities for growth, from film production to animation, to multimedia services, to video-on-demand and, soon to come, 3G multimedia messaging. Companies are merging so that they can leverage their capabilities across different technology platforms and market segments. As Mr Yeo Guat Kwang has noted that others, like Dubai, and Mr Zainudin has also noted Iran, have recognised the economic value of this industry and are aggressively promoting it. What can we learn from them? We must, at least, be equally aggressive. To give focus to the media industry, we will merge Singapore Broadcasting Authority (SBA), the Films and Publications Department (FPD) and the Singapore Films Commission (SFC) into a single statutory body which will be called the Media Development Authority (MDA). MDA will promote the growth of the media industry, working closely with EDB and other agencies, to attract investments to Singapore and to develop our local content creation capabilities. Mr Yeo Guat Kwang wanted to know if our censorship regime would stifle the growth of the media industry. I do not think so. Because of our multi-racial and multi-religious society, we set guidelines for contents that are targetted at Singaporeans. But we do not impose our standards on others. Media businesses are welcomed to operate here within the laws of the land. The formation of the MDA will bring together the various content regulatory bodies, to ensure that all our content regulations are well coordinated across different media and correctly balanced to promote social harmony while encouraging industry growth. With the competition code in place and the formation of MDA, we expect to see renewed vigour in the media industry and the creation of new job opportunities for Singaporeans in the years ahead.

Sir, last year, in the Committee of Supply, I raised the possibility of us having a Freedom of Information Act. My argument, if you recall, is that governments these days are expected to be transparent and accountable. Freeing up information will also be consistent with our desire to become a knowledge economy. I believe that, with information, people can make better informed choices than they otherwise would have been able to do. While I can understand there is a need to consider issues of national security in deciding whether or not to release information, there could be other types of information where such concerns are not pressing. In this area, perhaps the Government can be more liberal and open in providing. Sir, I did say then that the Freedom of Information legislation serves two purposes. If I could recap, first, it imposes an obligation on the part of the Government to allow non-security, non-sensitive information to be made available to citizens where such information affects their rights. Often, information about a person may be gathered which has an effect on the way the Government decides on matters affecting the person which may not be accurate and which does not lend itself to being challenged by the interested party. Subject only to requirements of national security, I cannot see why such information may not be made available to the person concerned after, perhaps, an appropriate period of time. Secondly, the availability of information to interested persons, as of right, may have a salutary effect on civil servants. As a civil servant, if he knows that his record will be subject to public scrutiny at some point of time, he will be more careful perhaps in the way in which he documents his record. This will have a positive effect on maintaining and, perhaps, raising the level of conduct of civil servants. Sir, in his reply to my query last year, my parliamentary colleague, Mr Yatiman Yusof, said that our National Heritage Board Act allows for declassification of Government documents after a period of time, and from time to time. I had a look at the Act and would add that it falls far short of what we are trying to achieve here for the following reasons. First, the Act does not set out any comprehensive framework for the declassification of information within a certain timeframe. Secondly, it does not confer upon a person a statutory right to ask for information that may be relevant to him. There are many more reasons but, for now, these two are sufficient. Sir, we have come a long way to feel that we are mature enough to consider such a legislation as the Freedom of Information Act. To be sure, we are not the first to look at this, as many countries in the west, such as the UK and the USA, have already done so. And if we want to move towards the developed standards elsewhere, it is about time that we seriously consider enacting such a legislation as I have suggested. On this note, I would like to ask the Minister whether the Government could consider such a legislation.

Mr Arthur Fong is not here. Mr Zainudin.

Sir, with the rapid advancement of technology in the info-communications arena, the challenges faced for control are approaching impossible. In this respect, I would like to ask the Minister to choose more education over control on the issue of Internet.

Sir, the right to be left alone or to keep information about ourselves to ourselves is a right that I believe everyone would value. Informational privacy has become one of the most significant forms of this right in the last decade, because of the advances made in technology and the everyday use of the Internet. Perhaps, in recognition of this, the IDA is charged with the specific duty and given the power to establish, maintain and promote data protection, standards and codes relating to privacy. The technology to make it easier for us to surf the Internet also presents risks to informational privacy. Everyone knows what cookies are. Those who have yet to surf the Net probably think that they are biscuits. Children are more familiar with the cookie monster. But, for those who surf the Net, they know cookies as software devices that are used by server connections to store and retrieve information about the user. It is intended to make life easier for the user, because the user preferences are then stored and become known to the server. But, increasingly, these cookies are becoming cookie monsters. They are used by many service providers to collect information, which is then sold commercially, usually to mass marketing agencies. The users suddenly find themselves bombarded with thousands of messages advertising all sorts of products. I am sure the experience is not unique to anybody, and it is a common one. I myself have had advertisements for flowers, chocolates, even pregnancy kits which, of course, I do not think I need. Obviously, many see this trend as a severe infringement of personal privacy. And the US legislature has recognised this by considering a Bill on online personal privacy, which has just secured the approval of the US Senate Commerce Committee. The general view is that good privacy practices mean good business. Consumer confidence will increase and more will use the Net for their purchases. Sir, recently, a number of letters have surfaced in the Forum Page of the Straits Times, lamenting the lack of such laws in Singapore. Singapore has so far preferred the self-regulating solution for both the private and public sectors. However, this is generally now regarded as insufficient for a number of reasons. Firstly, companies may set out having a good privacy policy but may actually change in due course without the users' consent after collecting information. Secondly, there are many cases of companies facing bankruptcy and selling their databases as a means of keeping afloat and yet others, of course, may deliberately use cookies to surreptitiously collect information for commercial reasons. Such companies are unlikely to abide by any self-regulating code without teeth. Sir, to promote consumer confidence is to promote electronic commerce. Promoting consumer confidence requires serious attention to be paid to the protection of personal data. Only legislation can lay down the baseline of personal privacy protection. Self-regulation has not been a success so far. This is recognised in the United States and other countries, such as the EU, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Japan. We must not be lagging behind if we see ourselves in the forefront of electronic commerce. I would, therefore, like to ask the Minister to consider the following measures: One, ask IDA to seriously explore the legislative option for providing a baseline of protection for informational privacy; Two, advise and direct all websites or content providers in Singapore to make available a privacy policy that is couched in simple language and not legalese; and Three, to encourage the use of IBM's free technology solution to privacy, the Tivoli programme, that will, amazingly, translate all written privacy policies into electronic format and apply the whole new rules to the website of the content provider. Sir, in consumer law, there is a general rule called caveat emptor or "buyers beware". This rule has increasingly been supplanted by legislation protecting the rights of consumers to physical goods. In the case of the Internet, as far as personal privacy is concerned, it is still the situation of "Surfers beware. Cookie monsters are everywhere." Sir, it is time to act to protect informational privacy in a meaningful manner and, I hope, the Minister will take note of that.

Mr Steve Chia, you have two cuts. You can take them together.

Sir, the Government had legislated on regulating the Internet and requiring all sites with political contents to be registered with the SBA. This has caused fear and unease to some of the website operators. As we have read in the papers, some of these active civil society members, like Dr Tan Chong Kee of Sintercom, would rather close down the website than to have it registered with the SBA. If we want Singaporeans to take on and compete in the global arena, we cannot continue to restrict them to grow up in a closed and protected environment. If Singaporeans cannot be trusted to judge issues for themselves, how will they ever learn? Such requirement for political control is not helpful to the nurturing and growth of the Singapore societies. Will the Minister look into freeing up more space for Singaporeans to own and operate discussions on the Internet without the feeling that Big Brother is watching and coming to catch them? I hope the Minister will remove political societies and websites with political contents from this registration requirement. Moving on to my second cut, Sir, I would like to ask the Minister regarding the application of a printing permit for a political party newsletter, what is the reason for requiring all the CEC members of a party to apply for this printing permit. It is not possible for the whole CEC to sit on the editorial board to edit every article of the newsletter. Should not the onus and licence requirement responsibility from the Editorial Board alone be sufficient? This will help to simplify requirements and also be a lot more meaningful. Can the Minister kindly explain why all the CEC members in a political party that applies for such a printing permit also be required to declare their personal assets? Is this requirement also enforced upon the PAP publication, Petir? And that all the PAP CEC members also have to declare their personal assets to MITA when they apply for this printing permit. I am not sure, but I do not think so. Therefore, is such a requirement a veiled threat to the opposition political parties and a means to suppress their freedom of publication? Can the Minister kindly clarify?

Sir, Members have raised a number of issues relating to the management of information in our society, namely, censorship, data protection and access to information. These are fundamental issues to the way nations are governed and to the way societies function. Each community has to decide for itself what these rules should be. While these issues are not new, our environment has changed, and we cannot duck these changes. We are a global city and, therefore, open to influences from everywhere, and we must adjust and adapt to them. One challenge is the Internet. The Internet has become a vital tool for business and personal growth. But, at the same time, it is also a source of all kinds of undesirable content, including pornographic content and hate materials. Filtering software, offered by the Internet Service Providers (ISPs), can help to keep out some of these materials. But regulations alone cannot prevent the naive and curious from being tricked or lured to undesirable sites. 3.45 pm I therefore agree with Mr Zainudin that we should educate the public and in particular, parents, so that they can take their own preventive actions to avoid such materials. Last February, SBA established a $5 million Internet Public Education Fund. To-date, $1.2 million has been used to support eight on-line safety projects. The fund has benefited organisations like the Parents' Advisory Group for the Internet (PAGi). PAGi was formed two years ago, and has trained more than 23,000 parents to provide guidance to their children on the safe use of the Internet. Mr Chairman, we also need to provide safeguards against another kind of abuse over the Internet, and that is the spurious use of the Internet to spread false information or to inflame emotions, causing hurt to affected parties and harm to society. This is why the Government has imposed certain registration requirements for political and religious websites, and political party websites. Mr Steve Chia claimed that this rule was the reason why the Sintercom website closed down. This claim is unfounded and his suggestion to waive the rule is unwise. Sintercom need not have closed down because of these rules. Registration does not impose any extra rule on content providers and websites. Nor does it disallow open discussion or criticism of Government policies. Yes, indeed, the public is free to access these sites and to judge for themselves the contents. These sites are bound by the class licence rules of the Internet, and by the laws of the land. Registration is a reasonable and prudent measure to establish accountability, and to deter irresponsible persons from using the cloak of anonymity to create mischief and harm. Mr Steve Chia also asked why it is necessary for the CEC members of political parties to be named as the publishers of party websites and newspapers, and to declare their assets. Sir, in politics, it is only too easy to run down political opponents or to stir up trouble under the cloak of anonymity. This is why it is necessary to remove this cover. It is reasonable and fair to expect CEC members, as the highest decision making body of a party, to stand by their views openly, and to take responsibility for what is published on their website or in the newspapers. Also, requiring CEC members to declare their assets when they apply for a newspaper permit ensures that they are people of substance who have not tried to avoid their responsibilities by appointing proxies to represent them on the CEC, and to be the fall guys should they run into trouble with the law. Mr Chia has also asked if this rule applies to Petir and to the PAP. Yes, it does. But PAP CEC members declare their assets to the Prime Minister and SBA accepts that declaration as fulfilment of this requirement. Now, let me turn to the issue of data protection which was raised by Assoc. Prof. Chin Tet Yung, who has informed me that, owing to an urgent personal matter, he is unable to be present for the response. The ability to store and move tremendous amounts of data and the open structure of the Internet make all of us vulnerable to information misuse or abuse. The Government is mindful of this. Apart from basic legislation, like the Computer Misuse Act, we have enacted sector-specific legislation, like the Private Hospitals and Medical Clinics Act, the Banking Act and the Income Tax Act, to protect sensitive personal data like medical and financial records. Sector-specific legislation, however, may not cover all types of information that an individual may want to keep private. However, a wide and sweeping legislation on data protection may also not be the best way to move forward or to make things better. This is because such a law could deny companies' access to information that they need to come up with better ways to tailor products and services to customers. It would hinder innovations, and customers would miss out on useful and convenient services. After all, not all of us reject cookies. Some of us do like the taste of some of those cookies. And we accept the cookies because we want to get to those sites. Also, complying with a broadly-based law could raise significantly business costs, and this would affect small businesses and start-ups the most. These benefits apply both to the private and the public sectors. Indeed, through e-Government, many new and convenient services have been delivered to the public. The Government's approach to data protection is, therefore, to set in place rules and processes that would safeguard privacy, without incurring high costs or stifling innovation. The civil service has its own internal guidelines, administered by the Ministry of Finance, that guard against misuse of information. The Second Minister for Finance elaborated on this in this House last week, so I shall not go into that further. Concurrently, we are working with the private sector to strengthen industry self-regulation. The industry-led National Trust Council is currently conducting public consultation on a Data Protection Code for the private sector. The draft code is modelled on international standards, and I would encourage Members to give their views to the Council as well. Finally, let me touch on free access to information. Mr Sin Boon Ann has argued that Singapore should have a Freedom of Information Act. He has raised this before. He feels that it is appropriate, in an information-oriented society like ours, that individuals should have free access to information held by the Government, and that this would make the Government more careful in the way it manages its information resources. Sir, it is natural as we become more and more of an information society, that the public will want to have great access to information that are important to them, and that affect their daily lives. To-date, Government information is available through a variety of channels, for example, mass media, governmental publications, the Government websites of which there are many, and the National Archives. Parliament is also a source of information where MPs regularly file questions to get specific answers. But legislating information access rights, as suggested, also has its pros and cons. Yes, it might improve transparency, but it will also shift more public resources to addressing individual demands, rather than collective benefits. It may also impose rigidities on the way information must be kept and managed in order to be made available for public scrutiny. And like data protection, a legislated approach to information access can raise costs and hinder innovation within the Government. The question is whether the public today is denied information they need, except for information that could compromise our security or national interests. Is there a practical need that is not met? In practical terms, we have more access to information than we really can use. But if there are specific needs that are not addressed, then we should take a look at them. The system we have today is working well. Instead of a Freedom of Information Act, there may be more practical value at this time to take a needs-based approach and cultivate greater civic awareness and involvement around specific issues that can benefit the community. Sir, the issues that the Members have raised on information management are fundamental to the development of our society, whether it is data protection, freedom of information access or censorship. Our society is neither static nor closed, and we will review our policies in these areas from time to time to keep pace with our economic and social development. I thank the Members for making these important issues as part of this debate.

I just want to seek some clarification from the Acting Minister. Just now, he said that the particulars of assets of the members of the CEC of the PAP are handed to the Prime Minister. If I am not mistaken, the PAP is a private political party, just like any other political party in Singapore. I believe also that Petir is a publication of a private organisation. It is not a Government publication. How is the law being complied with when it is required that all the CEC members must submit their assets to SBA, but in this case, it was submitted to the Prime Minister? Another clarification. When the details of assets are submitted to the Prime Minister, is it submitted to the Prime Minister as Prime Minister, or is it submitted to the Prime Minister as the head of the PAP?

The PAP is not just a private political party. It is the ruling party. It is the Government. It forms the Government. When office-holders declare their assets to the Prime Minister, they declare to the Prime Minister as the Prime Minister. The purpose of having this rule, as I gave Mr Steve Chia in my reply, was to ensure that the CEC members are people of substance and that they do not put proxies on board the CEC so that these proxies can be the fall guys for them should they run into trouble. This objective is achieved by the declaration that the CEC members make to the Prime Minister in their duties as office -holders.

Sir, Infocomm Vision 21 aims to achieve e-Government, e-business and e-lifestyle in Singapore in five years' time. To-date, many Singaporeans understand the benefits of IT, but many are still experiencing difficulty in acquiring necessary IT skills, especially the senior citizens. Increasing IT skills and awareness is important. But what is more important is to make sure that those who have learnt IT know how to apply the IT skills to better their lives. We need a more structured and quality approach to achieve our Infocomm Vision 21. I would like to ask the Minister the following questions: (1) What is the outreach programme for increasing the IT skills of Singaporeans? How effective is the programme in imparting IT skills to these Singaporeans? (2) Can more resources be channelled to the Community Development Councils (CDCs) to help to run some of these IT programmes, in collaboration with other civic or private organisations? (3) What are the plans to help lower-income families to own PCs?

Sir, since the unveiling of the Infocomm 21 Plan, the dot-com bust had occurred, and euphoria for a networked world has ameliorated. The landscape has changed. I wonder if the Minister could share his views on the following. How have the dot-com bust and related developments affected the Infocomm 21 Vision, if any? What is the progress with the bringing of broadband connectivity into homes and offices? How many homes and offices have subscribed to broadband services? Is the Minister satisfied with the broadband adoption? What are the causes for resistance to broadband access? Is price a deterrent? If so, what is being done to bring it down, and when can we see this happening? 4.00 pm Thirdly, what is the status of the digital divide in Singapore? What progress have we achieved to review this divide? Has it in the meantime widened? What further plans are being considered to fight this digital divide?

Sir, the world telecommunication industry is in the midst of a financial melt-down. There is over-capacity. I just want to find out from the Minister, what is the situation in Singapore? Has it the same effect? Do we have over-capacity? Do we have the critical mass and the economy of scale to enable these networks to survive? And, also Sir, the consumers of bandwidth do not see the prices falling, even though telecommunications has liberalised and we see more competition. We read recently that Starhub is going to acquire SCV and I am concerned about the role of content providers and systems integrators. By allowing the two large groups remaining, will there be a role for content providers? I think one of the great issues with regard to telecommunications is really the role of content providers, the variety of them, the access and provision of content and how the systems could be integrated. Similarly, with my colleague before me who has spoken, I see that the percentage of the workforce which is competent in infocomm, has only risen marginally from 43% to 45%. So what steps are we taking to improve the competency level of Singaporeans in infocomm, especially for older workers? When do we see the day that we have 100% competency in infocomm. Are we producing enough talent in this area, because as we want to grow this industry, obviously, what will hold back would be the human capital? Can the Minister give us an assessment?

Sir, the burst of the dot-com bubble has been a painful lesson for many. I would like to caution the Minister on the hype and hoo-ha of the 3G technology. It is all good and well to anticipate and project the possible growth and earnings from this technology. There are still many uncertainties and technologically speaking, there are many hurdles to overcome and bugs to cure. We could learn from the experience of the European countries that had inadvertently thrown their telecommunication companies into battle for the coveted 3G licence, even before any concrete system or services could be rolled out. Is this a good thing to do? Sir, I would like to caution the Minister against putting a high premium on the 3G licence, because in the end, it is the consumer who is going to pay for these services, and worse still, it could hinder the growth rather than help it to develop to its full potential.

Sir, first let me thank the four Members who spoke up on various aspects of infocomm development in Singapore. As this is the first Budget in which ICT comes under the purview of MITA, allow me to briefly sketch out MITA's view on this sector, even as I reply to the specific queries of the Members. The ICT sector in Singapore has come a long way since 1981 when we formed the National Computer Board. The early pioneers have gone on with age. Some have moved to take on new responsibilities, like Mr Philip Yeo, who is now leading the charge of growing another new industry for Singapore - the life sciences. Another notable pioneer is Minister Lim Swee Say, who is now championing the cause of clean environment and NEWater. We have these and many other pioneers to thank for the significant progress that we have achieved. They helped lay not only a strong foundation, but a nimble culture, which has allowed us to move in tandem with global market and technology trends. Over the years, we see NCB moving from Mindef to MOF, to MTI and then to MCIT to merge with TAS to become IDA. And now IDA has moved into MITA's stable to help us push the ICT sector to a new height as we position Singapore for the next wave of convergences between IT, telecoms and broadcasting. So after 20 years, the ICT sector has grown to become a very significant contributor to our GDP. Its value-add contributes about 5.5%, which is significant. The total industry revenue is about $26 billion, and growing strongly. Right through the Asian financial crisis, the ICT sector continued its strong and robust growth. The progress we have made in the sector does not happen naturally. It is the result of proactive planning and timely policy interventions. On the policy side, let me just highlight three major initiatives, which have particularly positioned us well. First, the Government's decision to fully liberalise the telco sector in April 2000. Competition has brought down prices, and increased the range of service offerings to all Singaporeans, young and old. Many of us have personally benefited from this. My daughters certainly do. One of them told me the other night that she sends 700 SMS messages a month. She assured me that she is not among the heaviest users in her class. Second, the Government's decision to bring about a world-class infocomm infrastructure. Our IT 2000 Masterplan transformed Singapore into an Intelligent Island. We now have 1 million homes in Singapore, all of which have the options to effect broadband connection, either via ADSL, the copper wire, or SCV cable. And, increasingly, some homes will also have a third "wire", which is wireless. Dr Tan Boon Wan asked about progress in broadband adoption in homes and offices, which Mr Loh Meng See asked as well. We had a recent survey and it showed nearly 1 million broadband users in Singapore. This means that 1 in 3 Singaporeans, above the age of 10, are broadband users. More significantly, more than half of them took up broadband only last year. So clearly, the big bang in telco liberalisation has contributed to this growth, by bringing down prices. As far as I know, the cheapest broadband access package in town is only $38 per month, for unlimited usage. Third, the Government's initiative to actively cultivate sophisticated demand. We have, as Dr Tan put it, gone beyond the IT awareness stage to cultivate savvy usage of this very important medium. The public sector is leading on this. Its $1.5 billion e-Government Action Plan seeks to transform the civil service into a leading e-Government in the world. Two-thirds of all Government services that can be offered online are already being delivered electronically. But, we will push towards 100%. So, similarly, our private sector should actively review their business processes to see how they can further exploit ICT to attract, to retain, and to delight their customers. Mr Chairman, after 20 years of strong growth, the ICT sector remains in a dynamic, creative and developing phase. Technology will continue to surprise. Broadband, wireless, 3G, web services, digital media, next generation Internet, and who knows what, will open up many new opportunities. In particular, the merger of ICT with media should throw up exciting opportunities. For example, in the digital media content industry, many industry analysts expect it to grow from US$100 billion to possibly US$350 billion by 2004. This is an exciting field where arts, business and technology intersect. Winners will go to those with a good dose of creativity and imagination. Those who can provide the consumers with a differentiated experience will win. It is a wide field, including animation, computer games, music, entertainment, film and print media using digital technology for both content creation and distribution. Our Singapore companies should seriously consider how they can ride on this wave. Dr Tan Boon Wan was correct to highlight the boom and bust of dot-coms. He asked if the bust should lead us to review our Infocomm 21 Vision. Many dot-coms have crashed, but the effects of the Internet Revolution in changing the way we live, work and play, are permanent. Industries and companies continue to be transformed by ICT. Technology continues to make progress. So we are reviewing, or more correctly, updating our Infocomm 21 Vision, not so much in response to the bust of the dot-coms, but to take into account the continuing progress in technology. But there is one key difference in our approach going forward. In the last 20 years, the Government's role in championing the industry, jumpstarting the development, investing in capabilities and infrastructure, have laid a strong foundation. It has been largely supply-driven, policy-driven and domestic focus. Going forward for the sector to achieve its next breakthrough, the efforts will have to be more demand-driven, industry-driven and export-oriented. It means leadership in exploiting ICT for strategic advantage. It means the ability to extract maximum value from our commanding lead, to go beyond Singapore to penetrate the market overseas. I chair the Economic Review Committee's Services Industry Sub-Committee. We have identified several service sectors which we think Singapore can excel in, and the ICT sector is a clear candidate. Given our 20 years of head-start and investments in capabilities, we are bullish about its continuing growth. A completely industry-driven ICT Working Group, led by Mr Wilson Tan of the Singapore IT Federation, has been busily working with more than 100 industry players to help us draw up the strategy going forward. They will complete their work and submit their recommendations in due course. One strong advantage of Singapore in the ICT sector is that young Singaporeans are not shy of new technology or new gadgets. Our parents may seem to be shy of ICT, but I do not think it is because they are shy of new technology. The lower usage of ICT among the older Singaporeans is often due to other factors. For example, I personally dislike SMS (I do not mean my neighbours in this Chamber), because I cannot stand the tiny screen of the mobile phone and my thumb seems too big for the keys. Likewise, many older Singaporeans are "digitally-divided" because the working language on the Internet is still largely English, and many do not know how to type. So understanding these barriers is important if we are to further bridge the digital divide. IDA's various initiatives have produced meaningful results. I will just name a few. For example, through its collaboration with the Ministry of Manpower under the National IT Literacy Programme, we have trained more than 80,000 Singaporeans. The One Learning Place at Toa Payoh Community Library has trained more than 100,000 Singaporeans in the use of broadband. My mother-in-law attended one of the courses in a neighbourhood community centre and she now enjoys her real-time mahjong session on Yahoo.com, playing with players from all over the world, whom she never met. I watched her play the other day. She could not take part in the cyber-chat which always accompanies such games because she does not understand English. So she just concentrates on the game, and therefore she wins all the time. Mr Loh Meng See talked about the upcoming merger between Starhub and SCV. As the former Chairman of SCV, I played a small part in that merger process, which is on-going. And it has a specific objective, which is to create a fixed-line infrastructure in Singapore as an alternative to SingTel. Just now I talked about the three wires - the SingTel wire, the SCV wire, and a future "wireless". But by creating this alternative fixed-line infrastructure we bring about greater competition on domestic fixed-line, which I think will further reduce the prices of telephony, as we know it today. 4.15 pm I agree with Mr Zainudin that we should not be too romantic about 3Gs, and its hype. Fortunately for us, we are not too much ahead of the curve. The Europeans were ahead of it. So with huge auction prices, it now caused a big problem to the industry. That is why sometimes, it does not pay to be the early bird because you may end up the early worm. In certain cases, you have to be the early bird, but I think, in this case, it is better to see what has been done elsewhere. And so when we took our 3G auctions, it was many months later. As you can see, the bid prices are quite different. I read the Financial Times last week about the 3G development in Europe where there are great concerns. We are watching this whole development very closely so that we can learn from it. Dr Teo Ho Pin talked about greater use of the Internet so as to bring this application to the whole community, young and old, IT-literate or otherwise, creating, for example, e-communities. I totally agree. This is a very powerful medium and a very effective mass communication tool. The fact is we are under-utilising it. I agree with him that CDCs, Town Councils and Singaporeans individually should think creatively on how much more they can exploit this medium. IDA (with a $25 million budget) will be happy to facilitate and to cheer them on. Clearly, contents and applications are the key drivers. Once I got my mother-in-law to play mahjong, my problem becomes one of how to get her off the screen. My youngest daughter is addicted to Neopets.com and according to her, her entire class too. This is a US website, which reaches out to teenagers, allowing them to set up cyber shops to sell virtual goods to one another. It is absolutely cool, and along the way, a whole e-community is created globally. But she learns a thing or two about setting prices, how to take part in auctions and market competition, and that, for example, a price war is fundamentally crazy. Only the other day, she asked me why a particular player was selling her ware at a price way below her cost. She lost a customer as a result. She could have gone on a price war but she decided against it. I thought to myself, when she grows up, she may join PSA.

Order. On behalf of hon. Members, I welcome the Mongolian parliamentary delegation, led by the Hon. Mr Baatarzorig, who is present in our Gallery. [Applause]

Head Q - (cont.) Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

Sir, we have just heard that Singapore wants to be an infocomm hub and IDA has to ensure that we have a world-class standard of infocomm infrastructure and quality of service. However, there are complaints of mobile phone service standards. Firstly, the issue is on mobile phone portability. The mobile phone is mobile but the phone number is not. When one switches to another service provider and wishes to retain the phone number, the operator will use call forwarding service to solve the problem. But this is not the complete solution, as is pointed out by many users who had complained to the press. I note that the IDA, in its reply to the complaint, has said that it recognises that with technology advancements and market developments, it is necessary to review the MMP solution regularly. I would like to know whether a review has been made and what is the position of IDA now on the issue. Secondly, Sir, is regarding the issue of the service standard of SMS. There were complaints that SMS messages were not delivered even after days. I wonder - because the Senior Minister of State dislikes SMS - whether IDA is going to set mandated service standard for the SMS service providers. Or is it just going to deem it as not one of the functionalities not needed by most users, and thereby need not set any mandated standard? And I would advise the Senior Minister of State that if he had a problem in using his thumb, maybe he should try the PDA phone. You can write Chinese as well, using your hand. Thirdly, Sir, it has also been brought to my attention that there are instances of dropped lines when mobile phone users enter MRT tunnels during train rides. There was also a complaint today from MPs that if one goes inside the lift, he would also experience dropped lines. What is the IDA going to do about it to ensure the service operators take the necessary action to prevent all this frequent problem of dropped lines?

Sir, Mr Low Thia Khiang has raised a number of issues concerning mobile phone services. Let me deal with them one by one. On mobile number portability, or MNP, IDA mandated MNP since the start of mobile competition on 1st April 1997. There are several technical ways to achieve portability. IDA decided at that time it was better to leave it to the mobile operators themselves to decide which was the best way. This is consistent with the regulatory practice in most other countries. However, the current solution adopted by the operators does not allow portability for mobile data services such as SMS. We recognise that this shortcoming can hamper competition and, likewise, innovation. IDA is working with the industry to review the existing technical solution, and it will ensure that the market remains competitive and able to deliver new services. On the issue of inter-operator SMS, that is SMS across different mobile operators, IDA has mandated this since February 2000. Any mobile user can send and receive messages to and from the customers of other mobile operators. Singapore is one of the very few countries in the world to have actually mandated inter-operator SMS. IDA is currently working with the four mobile operators to examine whether the inter-operator SMS service can be improved, and will consider whether or not to set minimum Quality of Service standards for SMS. Finally, on mobile coverage in MRT tunnels, IDA has mandated that all operators must provide coverage in MRT stations. But there is a problem here. We have not so far imposed minimum Quality of Service standards because of this problem, and that is, there is limited physical space in MRT tunnels. There is space for the trains but there is no space for a lot of other things. Mobile operators therefore have been required to share infrastructure in MRT tunnels. This limits their mobile capacity, and it makes it difficult to isolate problems to a particular operator. For these reasons, QOS standards have not so far been set. But IDA will continue to monitor the overall service levels closely, and work with the mobile operators to address and resolve the network congestion or quality of service problems when they arise.

Sir, can I seek a clarification from the Minister?

Yes, a short clarification.

He said that service standards were set for SMS. But is the standard for delivering messages set?

No, Sir, I said that service standards were not set. We have not set them because there is a competitive marketplace. If there is a competitive marketplace, you leave it to the operators how they want to achieve this. One of the problems, of course, with service standards in SMS today is because of people like Mr Khaw Boon Wan's daughter who sent out 700 messages a month, maybe a day! And there are many kids who find this a very fun technology, just to keep in touch with each other. But it puts a lot of traffic onto the system. One possible solution could be to differentiate service types, so that the business users could subscribe to more expensive service and therefore get better quality of service. But this is something for the market really to work out.

Further clarification, Sir. I wonder, where is the balance? On the one hand, IDA is supposed to provide the service standard and, on the other hand, it is saying that you leave it to the market. So, which is which?

IDA's responsibility is to ensure that we have a competitive marketplace, and we leave it to the market then to decide. Where there are restrictions to competition in the marketplace, then IDA will step in.

Sir, in view of the Minister's answers, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head Q of the Main Estimates be reduced by $10 in respect of Code QA 1500. (In Mandarin): Sir, just now, the Acting Minister Mr David Lim asked us to look at this stereogram [indicating]. He said that the Government had a heart there. I looked at it, but I cannot see the heart there. Fortunately, Dr Lee Boon Yang who will be taking over as Minister for MITA, taught me how to look for the heart, and I finally saw it there. So what you can see, you say you can see. What you cannot see, you must say you cannot see. However, I am reminded of the famous story of the Emperor's New Clothes. The Emperor's new clothes were not in existence, and nobody could actually see it, but everybody pretended that he saw it. Eventually, it was this little boy who exclaimed, "Hey, the Emperor is not wearing anything!" Recently, we had a Singapore edition of the Emperor's New Clothes, that is the "Hungarian Ghost Festival". We know that this problem arose from a wrongly translated description in the Chinese version of a Singapore Tourism Board publication. This Hungarian Ghost Festival has turned our society into a nation of ghosts and our ancestors have become Hungarians. The Chinese community was naturally very unhappy with it. There are a lot of articles in the newspapers, and even the ordinary citizens are saying that this is disgusting. The Government saw it, but it said nothing about it. Many people said that this was indeed a "national disgrace"! Why is it a national disgrace! Because the Hungarian Ghost Festival was not the only problem. In this Singapore Tourists' Guidebook which was distributed freely to incoming tourists at the airport, the Chinese translation stated that two former Prime Ministers of Singapore were buried at the Kranji War Memorial. We all know that there is only one former Prime Minister of Singapore, and he will be celebrating his 80th birthday. He is still very healthy, and he is flying all over the world. Our Prime Minister is in the pink of his health, and his face is shining with vitality. He can easily live to 100 years old. How could they say such inauspicious thing about them. This is indeed disgusting! In the Lianhe Zaobao, many readers wrote to complain about it. Some commented that the Memoirs of Lee Kuan Yew in two volumes which ran into some 2,000 pages were translated into Chinese, by our local translators, and there was no mistake in them. Why was there no mistake? The reason is very simple. It was because the publishers were very serious about it. On the other hand, although the Tourists' Guidebook was an official publication, the relevant Government agency did not take it seriously, and did not attach any importance to it. That was the problem. Very often, when we write to a Government department about some issues, we inevitably receive a reply, "We will look into it." When we raise the issue face to face with the Government officials, they will say, "I see, I see". So, they look and they see. Look see, look see, and in the end nothing is done. The STB said that the Guidebook was translated by some people in Shanghai, some foreign talents! No doubt, it is good to use foreign talents. But the question is: did our own people bother to vet and approve it? We want foreign talents, but we also need our own local talents to complement them. Foreign talents plus local talents, great things can be done. Foreign talents and no local talents to complement them, there will be full of problems. 4.30 pm Sir, last year, we had problems with the wrong translations in Contact Singapore that made us a laughing stock within and outside Singapore. This year, we run into similar trouble again with this Singapore Tourists' Guidebook. The problem is the attitude of these Government departments remains unchanged. They do not take their Chinese publications seriously. A lot of Singaporeans feel very hurt because of this. Mr Lee Seng Giap wrote an article in the Lianhe Zaobao entitled "Top straight but bottom crooked". The common expression is "Top not straight, hence the bottom is crooked". However, in the present case, the people at the bottom are doing well, but the people at the top could not be bothered. Many readers have suggested that we should have a Central Translation Bureau. This is a long-term plan. I think the immediate plan is to have an official vetting panel to vet through all important official translation works. If the Government department cannot get enough people to do the job, it can make use of talents from the private sector. If this cannot be done, then it is not a question of not being able to do, but not wanting to do.

Mr Seng, you have only 5 minutes left, and it includes the Minister's reply.

(In Mandarin): DPM Lee said that, when we are remaking Singapore, we will leave no stone unturned. But the problem is that some stones are turned and then put back in the same place. In this case, nobody seems to want to remove this stone at all. Last year, we were tripped by this stone, this year this stone is obstructing us again. The various Government departments are reluctant to take on this responsibility. I feel MITA should take on the role of a coordinator. In answer to my question, DPM Lee mentioned that when the Japanese Minister merely said, "Hm!", the civil servant took the cue and said a lot of things. I hope that DPM Lee will now say, "Hm!", and let the civil servants go and get things done.

Sir, I share the anguish and anger of Mr Seng Han Thong when our "Hungry Ghosts", in the hand of the Shanghainese translator, became naturalised "Hungarians". I was in MTI for seven years. So I know MTI corporate culture very well. In MTI, we are allergic to repeating mistakes. Each mistake leads to a thorough review of the operating procedure so that a similar mistake does not get repeated. So I have no doubt that, from now, in STB, there would not be double vetting, there will be triple, perhaps more. This human error cropped up in STB. But it could have cropped up in other departments, as in Contact Singapore, two years ago. It could have also happened in the private sector. Mr Seng felt that a Central Translation Bureau, or, in the interim, some vetting panel, would prevent such problems in future, at least for the public sector. I am not so sure. These incidents underline the importance of context and knowledge of cultural nuances. Hence, we cannot treat the language as purely technical. For Singapore to be cosmopolitan, we must develop a deeper knowledge of culture and context. And this must be achieved at every level, not just the translators, but the managers in charge must build that up too. Every publication is a communication exercise. The manager in charge is finally responsible for the accuracy of the message. He must take ownership. Passing the buck to a central bureau, or a vetting panel, is more likely to result in a loss of accountability on the part of the manager. The language experts in the Central Bureau can, at best, do a technical translation job but they cannot fully appreciate the nuances of the content or the intricacies of the policy intent. I have personal experience of this. Just two-three months ago, I have to give a couple of lectures to a largely Buddhist audience. So I prepared my speech in English, because I am more competent in English. Then I asked my colleague in MITA to do a translation for me. But I have to do the final vetting and, in fact, as it turned out, I had to make a few amendments because the translator, being non-Buddhist, cannot fully capture my intent accurately. But I agree with Mr Seng that MITA, with its pool of language experts, is in a position to help. We can help train translators. We can help standardise the terminology to be used. We can help translate the important Government documents. And we do provide such a service for our colleagues in the other Ministries, but we have to be selective. For example, our service cannot extend to tourism promotion publications which should rightly remain the full responsibility of STB. Language is an important part of our heritage. It can also be a competitive advantage. So we must all try to be better at it. It is therefore very good of Mr Seng to raise this very important point. Credit must also be given to the media for highlighting these incidents. If we do not exert high standard on ourselves, then we will never be able to make progress.

Mr Seng Han Thong, would you like to withdraw your amendment?

I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment No. (3), Mr Arthur Fong is not moving. Amendment No. (4), Mr Zainudin.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head Q of the Development Estimates be reduced by $10 in respect of Code QH 5200. Every major city of the world has its own historical and cultural landmark. The Esplanade's design and development have caused some stir in the architectural circle and among our citizens. Personally, I have to admit that I am an admirer of this national landmark. Say whatever you like, it sure stands out like a sore thumb on the bay. For many years, we could only turn to several common sites for concerts and performances. Now, with the Esplanade, I am confident Singaporeans can benefit and enjoy a modern, hi-tech, world-class theatre and concert hall. The Esplanade will go a long way in promoting and elevating the art scene in Singapore. Sir, my only concern is regarding the status and role of the Esplanade, as a private entity, in the effort to promote arts. I am for the investment in the arts and culture. It is important. With regard to this, I would like to highlight the major investment towards this project and ask the Minister how is the Esplanade going to balance its role to be economically viable and, yet, making the arts accessible and affordable to the masses.

Sir, for many Singaporeans driving past or gazing out of the SBS bus as he passes the Esplanade, one wonders how much he would appreciate what goes on inside and much less what went on inside the Victoria Theatre these past years. Sir, I recognise that the Esplanade will truly be the pride and joy of Singaporeans in time. Like the arts circle in Singapore, I am anxiously awaiting for the opening of the Esplanade. It will play an important part in developing and encouraging a softer side and more holistic Singaporean through the appreciation of the arts. The mission of the Esplanade is simple - to entertain, engage, educate and inspire. To entertain who? To engage who? To educate who? To inspire what? The answer is simple. To entertain art lovers, engage and interact with people who can appreciate and even identify with the performances and performers, educate people who have yet to experience the various art forms and finally to inspire a quest for more artistic exposure once entertained, engaged and educated. Simple. But it is, however, not as simple when we ask who are these people that we want to entertain, engage, educate and inspire. Sir, how many affluent Asian art lovers will consistently fly in, cruise in, drive in to support the programmes that are obviously going to be of a wide spectrum. How many Singaporeans will take up all the other seats night after night? This must be difficult for a few years. So to increase a healthy mass of art lovers, MITA has instituted many initiatives. Some good examples are the Arts Central on our TV, Arts on the Move series, that is brought to the HDB heartlands, Cross Talk events in community centres, Music Box - performances by young talented musicians and many more. We even have a Theatre Management course study at the university. There is also a concerted effort to bring in ASEAN artists and also to entice the regional arts companies to take root here. The bottom-line is we want to be prominent on the international arts calendar. Before that happens, we ask ourselves, will the range of activities that the Esplanade will stage be able to sustain its momentum? Surely, performers and artistes want to play to audiences and not just to experience performing in the newest performing Arts Centre with the latest that acoustic and theatre design has to offer at this time. As I have asked earlier, is the regional pool of theatre goers enough? Is our own Singaporean pool of theatre goers developed? Well, maybe after 12th October this year, foreign talents will find Singapore the least stressed place in Asia to work and play will also say that there is the Theatre on the Bay and there is much at play! But as much as we would like, the foreign talent pool cannot help us too much in the area of filling the seats night after night. Many average Singaporeans will tell you, this is for the atas sikit, the artsy and even for the ang moh foreign talent that we are wooing, and not for the average Singaporean. Sir, I know that there are, today, in our heartlands, Singaporeans who have in the past few years developed an interest in the arts, but this group is small. Will the many programmes, as I have acknowledged earlier, to "culturise" our people, result in a short time, help build enough cultural ballast for all that the Esplanade has the potential and will to stage? I do not think so. Meanwhile, large Government grants will be necessary to keep the curtains up for these two honeycomb architectural icons, or for the average Singaporeans it is nan sat du lian, the glass skin. Sir, for the year 2001, the Esplanade company ran a deficit of $3.8 million. A Government grant of $4 1/2 million was necessary.

Mr Fong, we are in deficit of time now.

I am finishing. Assuming that the learning curve and the reputation of the Esplanade as the performing Arts Centre is on the world stage in, say, five years, I would like to ask the Minister the estimated yearly Government grant for the next five years and beyond which is needed to keep the curtains up.

Sir, I am happy that MITA is developing the Old Parliament House. This historical and important heritage of our country must be given due importance and accorded the right place in our society. With respect to this, can the Minister update the House on the progress of the development and the future plans for the Old Parliament House? May I also ask what is the difference in the model of development compared to the old SJI? I had the opportunity to accompany the Minister on his visit to Reflections at Bukit Chandu recently, and it was really an exciting and interesting experience. I would like to encourage the House to pay a visit to this new museum at Bukit Chandu. If this is an example of the kind of future development that we can get for our museums, I have to really say that it is a commendable effort, and I would encourage MITA to work on the same model for the Old Parliament House. 4.45 pm

Sir, both Mr Zainudin Nordin and Mr Arthur Fong wanted to know what programmes the Explanade has to enable the public to identify with, enjoy and be proud of it. Mr Zainudin also wanted to know whether the Esplanade would be managed as a business entity or as an entity of public character, and how the Esplanade's viability would be maintained while allowing Singaporeans to enjoy it and feel ownership. Mr Zainudin mentioned the success of the Pepys Road programme and also asked whether the Old Parliament House would be modelled along that line or with the SJI. Sir, the Esplanade's mission is to be a performing arts centre for everyone. To fulfill this vision, the Esplanade hopes to resonate and connect with both the local and international audience by presenting an extensive and diverse range of programmes. It will strive to present activities that everyone can participate in and enjoy. To fulfill this mission, the arts centre will start with three weeks of fun and exciting programmes immediately after its official opening by the President on 12th October this year. There will be local and international performances and activities reaching out to families, teenagers, adults and the international audience. All her state-of-the-art facilities - the 1,600-seat concert hall, the 2,000-seat theatres, two smaller studios and three outdoor performing spaces - will be utilised to their fullest, to enable Singaporeans to soak in the festivities and fun. In addition, within the Esplanade compound, a performing arts library and a 3-level mall consisting of unique restaurants and shops will be opened for the public to explore and enjoy. Beyond the opening programme, the Esplanade has allocated more than 50% of its annual programming budget for family and community-based activities, such as cultural festivals, public education programmes, free outdoor events every weekend, and annual open-house days. The public can look forward to enjoying programmes, such as ethnic festivals, Children's Festival and an International Music series throughout the year. Sir, the distinctive architecture of the Esplanade has made it a talking point among Singaporeans. It has even been featured in cartoon strips in our local newspapers. I believe that some Members of this House have seen this cartoon in the Sunday Times. Mr Fong is correct too when he said that the Esplanade is iconic to Singapore. But, beyond being an icon of our nation's support for the arts, the Esplanade hopes to nurture and strengthen our social bonds and ties through a shared interest in the arts. And, with the support of the promotional agencies, such as STB, NAC and EDB, it will strive to enhance both her image and Singapore's overseas. In short, the Esplanade will have a heart close to its community but it will be known throughout the world. Sir, the Esplanade is an entity of public character. Similar to many performing arts centres around the world, the Esplanade will not make direct profits from the very broad and diverse arts programming it will undertake. But the benefits and viability of the Esplanade should not be measured solely on direct economic terms as it brings many indirect and intangible benefits. The Esplanade will increase the vibrancy and creativity of our local environment, enhance our attractiveness to global talent, encourage more creative and imaginative thoughts, and help to strengthen our relationships and ties, both locally and overseas. The corporate world can also integrate performances at the Esplanade into their client relationship development programmes. This, in turn, sharpens our competitive edge. The Esplanade should be viewed as a competitive tool for Singapore therefore, and it is important that we support the growth. As to the question by Mr Fong whether we can sustain this effort, I say it would be a big challenge to the management of the Esplanade as well as ourselves, Singaporeans. How much will it cost? It will cost a lot. But this is something that we can be proud of. Sir, on the question of the Old Parliament House, Mr Zainudin Nordin felt that the conversion of the Singapore Arts Museum should bear its value to the community. I totally agree with him. We should also value the fact that the Old Parliament House is an important historical building to Singaporeans. So far, the model that we build will be based on the museums that we have earlier developed, eg, the SJI, which have been successful in drawing in both local and tourist visitors. He may be glad to know that the annual visitorship to the SAM between 1996 and 2001 was about 151,541 and that 30% of the total visitors were tourists to the Singapore Arts Museum. So, because of the attraction that Singapore Arts Museum has, the model that we plan to have for the Old Parliament House will also be along that line. The historical significance of the former Parliament House would indeed be preserved. This will be done through the conversion of the building into a multi-disciplinary arts and heritage centre. A display along the walls of the corridors of the constitutional history of Singapore would highlight the building's significance in our history. Artefacts and plaques indicating important rooms of the Old Parliament House will also be displayed throughout the building. The draw of allowing Singaporeans a peek into the building where Parliament was once held will attract both local and foreign visitors. Sir, Members of the House will be interested to know that the Parliament Chamber will now be reused as a Concert Chamber. The former library will be converted into a blackbox theatre meant for use as a performing venue, while the Committee Room will be used as an art gallery. Other proposed facilities include a film theatrette, rehearsal and meeting rooms, restaurants with riverview and alfresco dining facilities. These will transform the Old Parliament House into an arts venue with events all year round. Together with Victoria Theatre, Victoria Concert Hall, the new Asian Civilisations Museum at Empress Place and this new Parliament Building, the Old Parliament House development will help make the entire area an arts and cultural hub that speaks for Singapore's present and past. Sir, a Straits Times report yesterday mentioned the discovery of four ---

Mr Yatiman, we have five minutes to "guillotine" time actually.

Let me conclude by saying that while we put the former Parliament House to new use, we will also highlight its past role in relation to our nationhood and constitutional history, and also the ancient history of its vicinity as revealed from the archaelogical exploration, as carried in the Straits Times a few days ago.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Loh Meng See, we have five minutes before "guillotine" time.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head Q of the Main Estimates be reduced by $10 in respect of Code QI 5200. Sir, I am raising the subject of the Malay Heritage Centre because I believe it should not be just a centre for the Malay community. It should be a national project. I recall the failure of the Malay Village in Geylang Serai some years ago. It is important that we make it a success this time. If we are ambitious enough, we should make it a regional centre for Malay heritage. So I just want to ask the Minister what plans we have to make it lively not only for the centre but also the surrounding areas, the programmes and activities, and for public education as well.

Sir, heritage should be everyone's hub, especially for a country as economically successful, global and cosmopolitan as Singapore. Singapore should be proud to have a Malay Heritage Centre to complement that of the Indian and Chinese. It is after all a national heritage. I will just go to the question, Sir. Could MITA share its thinking on the project and explain how it assesses the progress made and its direction? How will a National Heritage Board and other related agencies under MITA and Government agencies like URA, Land Office and STB help the MHFC make the project viable and a success?

(In Mandarin): Sir, in the development of museums, MITA has done well. We have now 15 heritage and arts museums. To create museum going culture among Singaporeans, MITA has even gone further by organising a MuseumFest at Suntec city to attract the shoppers. As we know, Singaporeans prefer shopping than visiting museums. Thus, MITA has moved the museums to the shopping centre. This is a right strategy. Sad to say, if we ask Singaporeans to name 10 shopping centres, many can name them without much difficulty whereas many could not name even a few museums. Besides focusing on local Singaporeans, I felt that we should also focus on the 7 million tourists who visit Singapore annually now that we treat Arts spending as investment which could also create economic growth. I propose that we categorise the 15 museums into a few groups and actively promote the different groups of museum among different target audience: certain kind of museums may be of interest to the Japanese tourists, others to the interest of the Europeans and some to the Chinese tourists. The pamphlets can be printed in the languages of the target groups and be distributed at MRT stations, hotels and tourist resorts. Many other countries have done this and have seen the results. If we can be creative, innovative and flexible in the promotion and operation of museums, I believe, in the longer term, we can attract more Singaporeans as well as tourists to our museums.

Sir, time is running short. I would like to thank Mr Zainul Abidin and Mr Loh for raising the important issue of the Malay Heritage Centre at Kampong Glam. I would like to report that it is progressing well and that it is expected to be completed in the year 2003. As to what is being done to enhance the Centre, I would say that an urban planning consultant was appointed, with financial support from the Singapore Tourism Board, to conduct a consultancy study and development, and there have been some recommendations and some ideas have been thrown up. First, they are talking about pedestrianisation of Sultan Gate leading to the Malay Heritage Centre; second, they are drawing a demarcation line in Kampong Glam into a cross-section, the Green Fingers, Commercial Spine, etc; third, to close Kandahar Street temporarily on weekends and turn it into a food centre. With these measures, we will be able to make Kampong Glam Malay Heritage Centre a very attractive place for people to visit, shop and participate in the activities. Mr Seng Han Thong suggested that we should open the museums on Mondays. Currently, the museums are closed on Mondays to enable the maintenance of gallery items on display and to ensure that the museums are clean and well kept for visitors in the week ahead. At present, our National Museum stays open until 9.00 pm on Fridays, and if a public holiday falls on a Monday, with the exception of May Day, they would be open to the public. Mr Seng suggested that we should also open on Mondays. Even though it is an international practice for the museums to be closed on Mondays, I am happy to say that MITA is glad to accept Mr Seng's challenge for us to dare to be different, and we will try to open the museums on Mondays on a trial basis and we will assess public reaction.

"Guillotine" time. Mr Loh Meng See, would you like to withdraw your amendment?

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $268,262,600 for Head Q ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $221,945,800 for Head Q ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head I -

Head I - Ministry of Community Development and Sports. Amendment No. (1), Mr Charles Chong.

5.00 pm

Sir, I beg to move, That the total sum to be allocated for Head I of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100. Meritocracy is a principle embraced by Singaporeans. It is a principle that has served us well and is often attributed as the underlying reason for our competitiveness and rapid progress. Sir, it is true that every Singaporean, regardless of how humble his or her family background, can succeed, and we often read of students from poor families doing brilliantly in their studies and succeeding in life. There are several common examples here in this House. It is also true that low-skilled workers can get ahead if they were to work hard, upgrade their skills and are prepared to undergo life-long learning. We must continue to encourage and motivate all Singaporeans to give of their best, and not to look to welfarism as a viable alternative. But our policy-makers must realise that there will always be the bottom 5-7%, who despite their best efforts, will not be able to keep up with the rest. If Singaporeans are to bond as a cohesive society, meritocracy and competitiveness alone will not enable us to achieve this objective. It has to be tempered with compassion for others, other than ourselves and our immediate family members. Whilst Singaporeans have to be personally responsible for their own welfare, the aged, the disabled and those less-gifted must never be made to feel disenfranchised and neglected. In a society built on meritocracy, equal opportunities lead to unequal outcomes. Those who lag behind may feel demoralised and resent the success of others. Those who succeed may feel less obligated to help anyone. After all, did we not, wittingly or unwittingly, imbibe in them that in meritocracy whatever success that is achieved is based entirely on one's own effort and merit? Could we always depend on the more able in the community to support the less fortunate? Singapore's social welfare system has largely been based on the family and extended family support. This has served us well in the past, when families were large and extended families living together quite common. But times have changed. Families are smaller, nuclear families common, and being single is no longer unusual. There are also prominent examples in this House. The Government, working with the community, must find ways to create adequate social safety nets for those who are unable to keep up, despite their best efforts, but in a manner not to destroy the sense of self-worth, or the incentive for them to give of their best, however humble that may be. Could the Minister tell the House what social safety nets have been put in place and the strategies adopted by MCDS to assist low-income families, the disabled and the disadvantaged to cope with the changed social and economic environment, and the measures to assist them and their children to improve the situation?

Sir, the recent recessionary effect of the economy is affecting the lives of many Singaporeans in more ways than one. To begin with, there are now more Singaporeans who are unemployed, and who may not be employable since for many of them, the restructuring of our economy has resulted in many of the lower-skilled jobs being made permanently redundant. Unemployment is more than 4% and rising. I know that for the unemployed and the needy families in Singapore, we have many public assistance schemes to help them. To mention a few, the CDCs provide financial assistance, utility grants and food allowances for a period of time. There are also a number of those who are given public assistance that is worked out based on the number of persons in the family. The question really is, and which has always been the subject of much debate in this House, how much help should we give before one can in true conscience say that enough has been given. I know we are not a welfare state and that the underlying concern about welfare assistance is a loss of the work ethic if public assistance is so readily available. Sir, I agree that we must not provide help to such an extent that people lose their willingness and desire to work. Yet, we cannot say, at the same time, that those who are unemployed are not willing to work. There are many in our society, who through no fault of their own, are without a job, or are without a job because they are either single parents or are medically unfit. And for many of them, they often have young families. Sadly, Sir, it is often the children who suffer. Sir, we talk about building a compassionate society and asking Singaporeans to give up their lives for the country, if necessary. For many Singaporeans who are desperately struggling, the call to put the country before self, somehow rings hollow if the perception exists that the Government is not prepared to do more if it is able to. Can we and should we do more to help these people? Yes, I say we should. My point is, just because there are people who may potentially abuse the system, does not mean that we should not do more to help the genuine poor. For a start, I think we should ensure that all Singaporeans should at least be assured of a minimum standard of living, and this standard should move with the changing standards over time. Secondly, we should set up some kind of unemployment insurance or fund to help families ease into unemployment slowly and cope with the trauma that comes with unemployment. Of course, such assistance should not be given at a level that is a substitute for the full income. Thirdly, families of public assistance should not be made to feel like they are beggars in our society. They should be counselled regularly by social workers to ensure that every cent that will be given will be usefully spent for the benefit of the family. I hope the Minister will comment on the above proposals.

Sir, when our economy went into recession last year, the Government introduced the Economic Downturn Relief Scheme (EDRS) to provide short-term help to those affected by the recession. Now the economy is showing signs of recovery. I assume that at some point in time, when the Government is certain that the economy is out of the woods, the EDRS will be suspended or terminated. While I agree that the EDRS should not be a permanent feature, I would like to highlight three areas of possible problems in the future. Firstly, improvement in the job market usually lags behind economic recovery. Even when our economy recovers, it will take time for employers to regain confidence and start recruiting again. It will also take time for new investments to come in to create new jobs. Therefore, we need to be prepared that the job market will take a longer time to improve. Secondly, while the economy may have recovered and the job market improved, there may still be segments of residents who are unable to find a suitable job, or may need more time to find one because of skills mismatch. They may remain unemployed for a while more. Thirdly, economic restructuring is likely to be a permanent feature in our economy. This is because of the fast-changing world we are in today. People are expected to be in and out of jobs as the industries they are working in restructure themselves. This is unavoidable, but it does mean that there will always be a good number of workers who may be temporarily out of job. Some of them may be financially stretched, especially those who have heavy commitments. Sir, as we phase out the EDRS when the economy recovers, I would like to appeal to the Ministry to consider introducing some kind of Economic Restructuring Assistance Scheme (ERAS) to help these three categories of people. The ERAS can be similar to the EDRS in that it is short-term and limited in dollar value, so as not to create a dependency mentality. But it is discretionary and simple to operate, therefore, we can respond rapidly. It has a specific objective of helping those who lost their job as a result of economic restructuring, and yet unable to qualify under the usual public assistance schemes. The Ministry could perhaps consider expanding the Interim Financial Assistance Scheme for this purpose. Alternatively, the ERAS may even take the form of a short-term interest free loan which the recipient has to pay back over time after he has found a job. Under normal circumstances, he would find it difficult to take a commercial loan as he is unemployed. With a short-term loan provided by the Government, he can avoid having to sell his house and risk breaking up the family just because of a short-term cash flow problem. As the loan needs to be repaid, the temptation for abuse is drastically reduced and those who apply for it are likely to be those who are genuinely in need. Sir, I would like to appeal to the Minister to consider my suggestion to put in place an Economic Restructuring Assistance Scheme, either as a form of short-term grant or a short-term loan, to help those affected by economic restructuring in future.

The current economic downtown has seen many Singaporeans affected either directly or indirectly. I have spoken earlier during the general debate of an increasing number of Singaporeans who are financially trapped with mountains of bills to settle. Sir, our approach to welfare has been guarded and indeed cautious. It should continue to stay that way. We have to ensure that any financial assistance scheme implemented does not create a disincentive to work. Sir, the role of administering financial assistance programmes has now been delegated to the CDCs. It has been a year since the CDCs took over this role and somehow, it coincides with the onset of the economic crisis. I would like to ask the Minister to give an update on two groups of people who have come to the CDCs for financial assistance. The first group are the retrenched workers. Sir, the EDRS was introduced as part of the off-Budget package to assist Singaporeans who were retrenched. Can the Minister share with the House how many families have been assisted through the EDRS scheme? How long has assistance been provided? What proportion of these recipients return to the CDCs for further assistance? That is, what is the proportion of those who are still in need of assistance at this time? The second group are the non-retrenched workers. These are the people who are not eligible under the EDRS. Can the CDCs also administer the other financial assistance schemes to assist their respective residents? Since taking over the role from MCDS over the past one year, can the Minister share with the House the effectiveness of CDCs in administering these programmes? What is the turnaround time for each of the case, that is from the time the case comes to the attention of the CDC to the time that the case receives the financial assistance? How has this differed from the time these schemes were administered centrally by MCDS? Can the Minister also share with the House how many individuals have come to seek financial help, other than EDRS, at the CDCs in the last one year? How many of these cases were successful in their applications, and how many were not successful? What are the social demographic profiles of these families who have come to seek help? What is the proportion of those who have returned for more assistance? We all know that providing financial assistance to these families will only address the symptom. There are other underlying problems that often accompany the financial problems. The provision of financial assistance should be a means to an end rather than an end in itself. To do this, however, requires closer caseload management and intervention. In this regard, I would like to ask the Minister what is the average caseload of each worker in the CDCs with regard to financial assistance cases? Anecdotal evidence indicates that the caseload for each CDC's staff is very high. If this is so, how can the CDCs ensure that their staff are effective in doing caseload management and intervention, thus ensuring that the underlying problems are addressed? CDCs are not the only organisations who provide financial assistance to needy Singaporeans. Indeed, there are many VWOs out there who provide financial assistance to these families also. While we pride ourselves in ensuring that our financial assistance programmes do not create a disincentive to work, the availability of many financial support providers may create a buffet syndrome, resulting in what social workers call the "professional cryer", one who is able to move from one organisation to another in seeking help. May I ask the Minister what efforts are being done to ensure that this does not happen? Sir, during the general debate on the Budget Statement, I shared observations that many families are feeling financially trapped with arrears quickly accumulating as the days go by. My understanding is that the financial assistance provided by the CDCs will only assist these families in the short-term, and will not be sufficient in helping them settle their arrears. I would like to ask if MCDS shares this same observation and, if so, how does MCDS hope to assist these families overcome their financial predicament.

Sir, what I wanted to say have been succinctly put forth by those who have spoken before me.

Mdm Ho Geok Choo is not here. Mrs Yu-Foo. 5.15 pm

Sir, I think the best safety net is the family. Families are the building blocks of society. The families act as the first line of care and support for an individual, especially during uncertain times. There are signs that the family values may slowly be eroded. For example, divorce rates have been rising, singlehood rates have been rising too, while fertility rates have fallen. While we focus our attention on economic uncertainties and restructuring, we should not lose sight of the value of the family. Our Prime Minister has identified declining fertility as one of the key challenges for our future. Despite generous tax incentives, the Baby Bonus and other measures, the number of births has remained low. Sir, some of the young professionals, men and women, told me that they are so busy with their work that they do not have the time to socialise, meet new friends and find a partner. And they are giving up the search for a life partner even when they are in their early 30s. Perhaps it is time for MCDS to consider privatising the SDU and SDS and allow the private sector to manage these functions. Maybe they are more imaginative in this. The Public Education Committee (PEC) on the Family, after consultation with people from all sectors of society, have come up with 70 recommendations, which include balancing the work life and family life, family support services, narrowing the gap between men and women in their expectations of life and marriage, and fostering a family-friendly society. Can the Minister comment on how MCDS will implement the 70 recommendations? Sir, there might be a need to review the slogan of procreation "Have three or more if you can afford it", the reason being that it looks like no one can afford it. The rich cannot afford the time, the poor cannot afford the money. Sir, I would like to ask the Minister when the Ministerial Committee on Marriage and Procreation is going to release its report. Is it at the courtship stage, pregnancy stage, or going to be delivered soon? I understand that in Denmark and Norway, the fertility rate is quite good. This is because of extensive support from the Government, such as childcare, nanny-care, financial support, and so on. Would the Government look into implementing some of these schemes? Sir, I wish to touch on abortion. There are about 14,000 abortions here a year, and about 60% of them are by married women. Sir, I am not against abortion. There are many reasons for abortion. According to feedback, women opt for abortion because of medical reasons, forced pregnancies, financial difficulties, alternative contraception, immaturity, fear of losing out on promotion, out-station postings, studies, or the inability to get a flat. Abortion, however, is a highly personal decision and it is difficult for the Government to interfere. But, in some cases, the mother might want to keep the baby for adoption. Sir, abortion counselling would need to be strengthened. Mandatory counselling should be done by independent counsellors and not by the clinic itself, as there is a conflict of interest. Mandatory conselling should be extended to the family as well. There should also be more joint efforts by MCDS and VWOs to support distress cases. Sir, a life saved is one more Singaporean. There is an important question I wish to ask. Procreation is the responsibility of the individual and the family. How far should the state share in this responsibility?

Sir, as Mrs Yu-Foo had mentioned, family is the basic building block of our society, and I think many people know that it is also one of our five shared values. On this, I believe, there is no disagreement. However, not everyone found family life to be a job. Some said that it is becoming more stressful, and there are many reasons why some families felt stressed, and some failed, resulting in abuses and divorce, and we all know that the children also suffer. Whatever the reasons are, I believe one way to handle the situation is to see how the problems could be reduced. In this respect, Sir, I think our people need to be assisted, and be better prepared for the role in the family. In this respect, Sir, I must stress that we should not assume that every child will grow up and will automatically be able to know how to become a husband or a wife one day, and maybe later on a father and a mother. They need something. They need to be prepared. They need to know. And, even if many people claim that they are able to cope without anyone's guidance, or on their own through reading and all that, I think more should be done to help our people. And, with some help, I believe those who can cope can manage even better. Those who are facing problems would at least be in the know of how to manage and to minimise their problems. Sir, starting a family and managing it is not a new human enterprise. We have been doing it for thousands of years. And after being in this for so long, I think we should have grown smarter from all our past experiences. And this is why, and this is also where, I believe, we could do more. We need to share more information on family life with our young. I am not just referring to the importance of the family, but also to increase their appreciation of starting one, and managing it as well as they could. For in the end, how well one manages his or her own family has a lot to do with the future of our people and our country. I could see that the Ministry of Community Development and Sports has drawn up many programmes pertaining to marriage and the family. However, Sir, I notice that they are almost entirely targeted at our adults. My question is: is it not a little too late to target grown-ups in trying to achieve the Ministry's desired outcome of cultivating positive attitudes about marriage, about family and about parenthood? In this respect I would like to see more efforts being done to target our youths, even as early as when they are in school. Sir, if we can reach them younger and help more of them to be better informed on family matters, I think by the time they grow up they could be in a better position to set up a strong and stable family. And this is one of the Ministry's mission statements. I think the best is for MCDS to work with the Ministry of Education and try to come up with a programme that could assist our young to better understand and appreciate family life. In our schools today, for example, there are programmes like Home Economics and Sexuality. I think these programmes, combined with many other family life activities currently promoted by the MCDS separately, could be put together to become something new, something like a non-examinable subject that could be taught at the upper secondary level. Sir, the idea is to have our young people understand and appreciate the core areas of family values. In this way, they are more likely to grow up with greater awareness. Anyway, with such knowledge the children could also be a more positive helping hand in their own families while they are still growing up. Sir, everyone, for example, needs to study English, Mathematics and Science, and other subjects from a very young age in order to prepare them for their working life. And once they have a good job, they can continue to improve and upgrade their skills, and in these areas, I believe we have done a good job. But, I think there is a case to consider teaching our young, or at least sharing with them, the core values about family life, so that they are also better prepared for it when the time comes. And in this way we would stand a better chance to have a good career and a joyful family life. And they could upgrade their knowledge on both aspects, from time to time. But, by then they should have a good basic understanding about family life. And even for those who did not do well in their career, they could at least try to achieve a good and happy family life by making good use of the lessons about family life that they have learned while they were still young, or from a young age. Another way to be of help is to try to get every aspiring couple to attend some marriage preparatory course. I think not everyone has the time and the ability to think of all potential challenges that one is likely to face in a marriage, or to think of so many ways to make the marriage work even better for the family. Sir, such courses could assist many people to be able to think and look ahead, to foresee the challenges and to be prepared when it comes. And they could even use the knowledge to avoid certain pitfalls. This is where I believe past experiences that many others have gone through could be of help to new couples. Finally, Sir, may I add that the more happy families that we can help to create the better it is for our society and our future. Sir, I sincerely hope that the Minister could look into some of my concerns and to find ways to get family life education included in a more comprehensive and digestible way in our schools or to have some programmes for those who plan to get married.

Mr Chairman, one of the tenets of S21 is strong families. We have often heard that the family is the building block of our society. As the key social institution, we will continue to strive to keep our family strong. It is this importance that has been placed on the family that I am raising this cut. I am not clear, if we do indeed have a family policy. My understanding is that we do have policies that affect the family, in the form of housing, healthcare, employment and, even perhaps education. But, do we actually have a family policy that systematically attempts to put forth the interest of the Singapore family? I would appreciate it if the Minister can enlighten the House on this. Sir, the marriage and divorce statistics, as mentioned by Mrs Yu-Foo, do not reflect a healthy trend for the Singapore family. In 1999, there were 14 divorces for every 100 marriages. In the year 2000, there were 23 divorces for every 100 marriages. In terms of actual numbers, Sir, between 1999 and the year 2000, the number of marriages dropped by 7%, but the number of divorces increased by 57%. These statistics, compared with the much talked about decreasing birthrate and ageing society, raise questions on the strength of the Singapore family. Why are there fewer marriages, but more divorces? Other indicators of our families being stressed include the incidences of domestic violence and juvenile delinquency. I would like to ask the Minister the following questions: What are the programmes that MCDS has developed in strengthening the family? What are the outcome indicators of these programmes, ie, are these programmes effective? How does the Ministry define a strong family? Are our families getting stronger or weaker? How do we know that we are indeed strengthening our families? Sir, I have argued elsewhere that to understand the developments of families, we need to appreciate the changing societal trends. The increase in the educational qualification of women, in my opinion, has a significant influence in understanding the state of the Singapore family. I believe that the role within the family must change, from one that is clearly defined along gender lines, to one that is complementary in nature. Sir, with women making up half of the workforce, and dual income families being the norm rather than the exception, it is imperative that we recognise the need for complementarity of roles between men and women in families. Sir, while we do not deny the Asian value that men are seen as being the head of the household, we also cannot deny the contribution of women in the family's economy. It is impractical to expect women to go out to work, to supplement the income of her husband, and contribute to the country's economy but, at the same time, to expect them to continue to perform their traditional roles of mother and homemakers. While the women are doing their part to supplement the men's role in the economic sphere, men must also reciprocate and do their part in supplementing the women's role in the domestic sphere. Sir, I believe strongly that MCDS should focus its programmes on promoting strong families, on the complementarity of roles between men and women in the family. Men can, and should be encouraged, to be nurturing fathers and domesticated husbands. Their roles should not be confined to merely being the breadwinner and disciplinarian. The wives will certainly appreciate their partners sharing the responsibility of building this strong family. 5.30 pm Sir, I have always believed that dual career couples share three jobs between two people, that is, two careers and the maintenance of a home. Indeed, we should continue to promote this and, I am sure, it will contribute towards increasing our fertility rates. I am glad to note MCDS' support on the role of fathers. But, Sir, I think we need to do more. We need to address the issues that men face in families. As we encourage them to perform non-traditional roles, I encourage MCDS to develop more programmes that will focus on the issues that men face as husband, father, employee, and even son. This in itself is deviating from the norm - that men do not talk about their issues. Sir, I have worked with men in different groups, and I am confident that men do need to talk about their issues, and these issues are directly related to their ability to strengthen their families. Sir, I would encourage MCDS to also focus its efforts on the issues of socialising our children in preparing them for adult roles in families. While we are socialising our girls to be independent, educated and career women, we are not socialising our boys to be domesticated husbands and nurturing fathers. Unless they are prepared, and we deal with this at this juncture, we will continue to see stresses in marriages as roles are not performed to expectations. It is not a role reversal but a complementarity of roles. In this regard, I would encourage MCDS to develop a coordinated programme at addressing the socialisation issues of our children in our families.

Sir, we are living in a fast-paced society, from third world to first world's living standards in one generation. Now, with the economic downturn, families are subject to a lot of pressure at all times. Some of the problems are stress-related, like job losses, retrenchments, relationship problems, harassment, especially now from creditors and relatives, divorces, separations, family difficulties, grief, bereavement, problems with addictions such as alcohol,, smoking or other drugs, gambling, unwanted pregnancies and other personal worries or life stresses, and so forth. Two statistics reflect some of the problems of our families. The number of juvenile delinquents is high (31 per 100,000 children). The number of persons divorced or separated, as what Dr Maliki has said, within the 10 years, increases from 1.3% in 1990 to 2.5% in 2000, that is, double. Most of these problems are found in dysfunctional families and normal healthy families too. With the smaller families, family support is much reduced. Some of these problems must be solved as quickly as possible. I would like to propose a one-stop support centre in every constituency. The Ministry of Community Development and Sports should make residents aware of such centres, so that they are accessible to them. We should educate the people that these are the centres that they can go to for help in times of need, especially now with the economic downturn, coupled with massive job losses. I propose that trained and professional counsellors be allocated to each constituency centre too. Retrenched workers can also be trained to assist the counsellors and run the day-to-day operations of these centres. This creates job openings for retrenched workers too. These centres should also have a 24-hour telephone counselling service, trained to listen first and counsel later. Presently, there are too many telephone numbers for people to remember when they are in trouble, and these are not reaching the ground. These centres could also work closely with schools within the constituency. The CDCs are well placed to provide these support centres. However, Mayors have told me that they do not have enough finances. Presently, there are only 12 CDC service centres, which are too little, ie, one centre for about 300,000 people. Therefore, I urge the Ministry to support this one-stop support centre, which will help Singaporeans cope with all these problems derived from dysfunctional families as well as normal families in this economic downturn. As the saying goes, you shall reap what you sow. And I would like to support my argument one more time that, Sir, even our court is adopting this one-stop approach in handling family cases now.

Sir, children from low-income households who do not have strong family support home environment benefit the most from attending good childcare and before-and-after school care centres. Unfortunately, many low income families may not be able to afford to send their children to childcare centres. During last year's Committee of Supply's debate, I asked the then Minister for Community Development and Sports to consider introducing schemes to make it more affordable to these families to send their children to good childcare centres. I would now like to ask the new Minister for Community Development and Sports to give this House an update of the additional measures and initiatives that were implemented since then, to make childcare services more affordable to low-income families. Could the Minister tell us what are the measures to increase the number of childcare centres in Singapore and the plans to upgrade the quality standards of childcare givers? Does MCDS have plans to facilitate and improve informal childcare arrangements where parents can receive assistance personalised childcare arrangements, especially for young infants too young for admission into normal childcare centres?

Sir, the total fertility rate in Singapore is on the decline. Childcare provision constitutes an important influencing factor for many parents to have children. We are still short of childcare centres and I know MCDS' plans to increase childcare centres further. A majority of our young parents are from the more educated group who want professional care for their children. Better childcare centres, with increased numbers of certified professionals and dedicated staff, should, therefore, be planned for our centres. MCDS should provide childcare facilities to both the HDB as well as the private housing estates. There is a need for childcare centres to be located in areas where there is more demand, such as the new densely built areas with many young families. Childcare centres at the workplace are convenient for many parents. This calls for more assistance from the Government to encourage employers to consider providing childcare centres at the workplace. Although there are more childcare centres that cater to children below 18 months of age now, the fees for such centres are very high, with the cheapest one charging $650 after subsidy. Will MCDS please look into the affordability issue and consider providing higher subsidies for such childcare centres? Sir, studies have shown that very young children fare better with family-based childcare. MCDS should, therefore, encourage family-based childcare, especially for infants. The ideal caregivers for infants are, of course, the parents themselves. However, in the context of Singapore, immediate family members, relatives, neighbours and even friends can be reasonably good parent-substitutes. The question is whether MCDS could subsidise such family-based childcare in lieu of care at childcare centres. Granting subsidy here may encourage suitable housewives and retirees to work and to have income while "staying home". These caregivers can be accredited or monitored and registered under MCDS' supervision. Whilst on the subject of childcare subsidy, will MCDS consider giving full childcare subsidy for special-circumstance lower-income families? The parents in these families need to go out to work but do not earn enough to cover childcare.

Sir, our childcare policy has been in place for many years. The primary purpose is to facilitate women to continue to remain in the workforce following childbirth. This policy has served us well. Childcare centres are excellent grounds for the total development of a child physically, emotionally, socially, psychologically and, of course, intellectually. Indeed, it is a stimulating environment for the children. I can attest to this as my children have benefited well from the exposure to a childcare environment. Sir, I am concerned about the children of low-income families, just like my colleague, Mr Charles Chong. I am seeing many of these families lately, with heads of households who are not working and with minimal income coming into the family. The mothers do not work because often times, they have more than one to three children. To the mother, the decision to work is weighed against the cost that she would have to incur in placing her children in a childcare facility. This is a practical consideration as what they can possibly earn may actually end up going to the childcare fees; thus, the decision to stay at home and look after their children themselves. While this is a practical and viable option for them, I am concerned with the development of their children. Sir, we have just completed the debate on the budget for MOE, and one of the issues raised by many Members of the House is the stress that children face in school. Indeed, today's child may not have a bright future if he or she enters primary school without a good foundation during the pre-school years. I am concerned that children from low-income families do not have access to strong foundations, and they may be disadvantaged for life. Yes, there are the kindergartens that provide pre-school education. I think these children will benefit more from structured developmental programmes that are available in childcare centres. They need a headstart to ensure that they will be on the same footing as the other children when they reach primary school. Sir, MCDS has put in place the Centre-based Financial Assistance Scheme for Child Care (CFAC) to assist these families. Subsidies of up to 90% of the childcare fees, subject to a cap of $250 per child, are provided to assist these families to place their children in childcare centres. I think MCDS recognises that CFAC not only facilitates improvement of family income but provides a headstart for children of low-income families. I would like to ask the Minister what is the take-up rate of the CFAC programme to-date, that is, how many children are currently enjoying the subsidy from CFAC. My understanding is that the take-up rate is rather low. If this is so, what are the Ministry's plans to improve the take-up rate? Can the Minister also compare this figure to the number of families with young children, who are receiving financial assistance from CDCs, to determine the extent of children from low-income families who can benefit from the CFAC programme? Sir, my suspicion is that the low take-up rate is due, firstly, to the lack of motivation for private childcare operators to facilitate this process. For at the end of the day, if these parents are not able to pay the fees due after the subsidies, they become a liability to the childcare operators. The administrative process must be made as simple as possible for the operators, to ensure that the scheme reaches out to the deserving families. Perhaps MCDS can encourage more voluntary welfare organisations (VWOs) to operate childcare centres. As often times, the fees charged by VWO-run childcare centres are more manageable for the low-income families after receiving the subsidy. Sir, the issue of childcare and related to it, the welfare and development of children, is indeed important for us to address. Children coming from disadvantaged backgrounds are likely to continue to be disadvantaged, unless they are given an alternative environment that will stimulate their intellectual and social development. Access to formalised childcare services not only benefits the children, it will also facilitate upgrading opportunities for their mothers. The children are our future, regardless of their socio-economic status that their families are in. Those who come from disadvantaged backgrounds, indeed, deserve special attention. We need to invest in their development for us to prevent another generation of low-income families to emerge. I hope MCDS will look into the criteria and administrative processes of administering the CFAC to ensure the access to the scheme for children of low-income families is further enhanced.

Ms Indranee Rajah is not here. Ms Irene Ng.

Sir, many parents in dual career families find it increasingly hard to combine work and family life as the pace and complexity of life increase. Women continue to bear the main responsibility of childcare at home, and often need support if they are able to have productive and satisfying careers. Indeed, one reason couples are not having more babies is because they do not feel they can cope with their family duties, on top of their careers. Sir, flexible work arrangements are the most common way to help employees balance their work and family responsibilities. The experience of other countries is that such work-life programmes do help in recruitment, increase staff productivity and morale, and actually save cost, as they reduce absenteeism. Yet, in Singapore, companies have been slow to offer flexible work arrangements. Today, only about 3% of Singaporeans are on flexible work arrangements. There is also little progress in the provision of childcare facilities or childcare leave for both men and women at the workplace. A survey two years ago by the Singapore National Employers' Federation found that three in four companies do not give their staff paid time-off to care for their sick children. And this is despite all the work and effort by the Work-Life Unit set up under the Ministry. I am sure that the Ministry has studied the experience of other developed countries with more success in this area. 5.45 pm I would like to ask the Minister if the Ministry has any more plans to encourage Singapore companies to adopt flexible work arrangements and work-life programmes. And as the biggest employer in Singapore, I would urge the Government to take the lead in adopting work-life strategies and flexible work arrangements. In so doing, it should also take a realistic account of women's increased participation in the labour force - women make up 54% of the public sector workforce as in the national workforce. It should also recognise the trend towards a greater sharing of family responsibilities between the men and women. Against this background, I would urge the Government to remove the contradictions in its system. If I may cite an example, married women officers are allowed paid child leave to look after their sick children below six years old, but not the male officers. It is as if the Government believes that it is not the responsibility of the fathers to care for the children when they are sick. I am sure many fathers will disagree with this. Another contradiction, while married women officers are entitled to take child leave, their children are not entitled to medical benefits, while those of their male counterparts do. I would urge the Government to develop measures to enable parents, both women and men, to discharge effectively their working and family responsibilities equally.

Sir, like the previous speakers before me, I agree that the family is an important institution that must be cherished and protected. The fact of the matter though is that Singaporean families are undergoing tremendous stress. This is due to many factors, such as the pace of change, rising expectations, ageing population and the increasing number of dual income households. As jobs become more insecure, the role of men as the sole breadwinners will change and more women will have to work to support the family and ensure a continuous flow of income. Hence, pro-family policies are important to help people balance work and family. If we do not put more serious effort into this, then I am afraid that something will have to give, and it will be the family. The demarcation between home and work is artificial, as one affects the other. An unhappy worker is likely to be an unhappy family man. Likewise, an unhappy family man is likely to be an unhappy worker. Companies that have implemented work-life programmes have found that their employees perform better and produce higher quality work. Work-life programmes are common in many developed countries. Many of them have also adopted legislation to promote work-life balance. Our male parliamentarians may be heartened to note that many countries in Europe today mandate the provision of paternity leave. Paid paternity leave ranging from three days to four weeks are provided in Denmark, Finland, Belgium, France, Norway, Portugal and Sweden. I do not know whether our male parliamentarians and other male workers outside will be so fortunate, but at least these are some of the developments in other countries. I also note that the Ministry has embarked on many efforts to promote and strengthen the family and help the workers balance work and family. Unfortunately, employers here have been sluggish and slow to respond. Flexible work arrangements for women who cannot work full time, or fixed work patterns, are uncommon. Despite the fact that we have one of the highest percentage of Internet users in Asia, telework has not caught on. Many working people continue to struggle between caring for the needs of children and aged parents and keeping their jobs. Often when they have to tend to family needs, it will be at the expense of their jobs as employers view them as unproductive. I recall the case of a worker, a man, who told me that, every morning, before he comes to work, he has to help his wife bathe his bedridden mother. As a result, he often ends up late for work and he receives warning letters. So people are caught in this kind of situation because of their family needs. Sir, I would therefore like to ask the Minister the following questions: How effective is the Ministry in its efforts to promote work-life programmes? What more can be done to educate and change employers' attitudes towards workers with family responsibilities? And finally, will the Minister consider recommending changes to our law to provide for big family care leave which can be used by the worker to take care of a sick or disabled family member?

Sir, juvenile delinquency continues to be a prevalent problem and I note that an increasing number of young delinquents are placed in institutions for rehabilitation. Solving this will require multi-partite involvement, such as stronger family and school support, the Police and community organisations working together. But my concern right now is what is being done to ensure that these young offenders are not being influenced and emotionally damaged by more seasoned and hardcore delinquents. It is a recognised fact that there is a need to implement rehabilitation. But we must ensure that the situation with these young offenders are not made worse and that they be given a second chance to redeem themselves and become normal individuals when they are discharged. I would appreciate it if the Minister could provide an insight as to what measures are taken to shield young offenders from incorrigible ones, and what his Ministry is also doing in post-rehabilitative measures to prevent the relapse of these individuals.

Sir, Singapore's population will age rapidly over the next 30 years. From just 7% of the population aged 65 years and above in 1999 to 19% of the population by 2030, that is, almost one in five Singaporeans will be 65 years, or above, by then. The sheer increase in the number of elderly will create added challenges on society and more stress on families. The support through services for the elderly will therefore become more and more critical. An Inter-Ministerial Committee (IMC) on the Ageing Population was formed in 1998 to lead a coordinated national response to address the challenges of the elderly. The IMC has finalised its recommendations after receiving reports from the six committees in November 1999. And in June 1999, a Services Review Committee was set up to review existing elder care provision and delivery and to develop a blueprint for elder care services. The blueprint also includes strategies and plans designed to achieve the desired outcomes formulated by the IMC. Could the Minister give the House an update on the progress made in the implementation of the IMC recommendations, details of the recommendations that have yet to be implemented and those that have been found not feasible? And are there any plans to expand elder care services to enable families to continue taking care of their elderly members, rather than to depend solely on institutionalised care?

Sir, the elderly have the highest rate of suicide among all age groups in Singapore. The rate of suicide is increasing, as more people live past the age of 75. Singles are the most vulnerable. Sir, the elderly in Singapore face the prospect of isolation and loneliness in this fast moving society. First, there is the trend of the younger generation wanting greater independence and privacy. They prefer to live on their own, away from their aged parents. Indeed, in the last decade, the fastest growing type of living arrangement for old people was that of living alone, or with their spouse only, away from their children. And second, the increasing number of singles means that Singapore will see more elderly singles living alone in the future. Already, we can see the trend towards one-person households. The percentage of one-person households rose from 5.2% in 1990 to 8.2% in 2000, with singles who have never been married before making up more than half of such households. At the same time, we have a whole generation of young people who are growing up without much contact with the elderly in their daily lives. Often, their caregivers are foreign maids. This is a society that celebrates youth, the creators of today's fast-changing technology and who are plugged into the globalised world. They have little regard for the wisdom passed down through generations. In such a society, the elderly face the risk of feeling useless to this society and that life is meaningless. Put these trends together and you will see a society suffering from the effects of an age divide. It also points to a fraying social compact, with the expectations and obligations of the different generations to support and nurture each other becoming more and more unclear. If we do not bridge this age divide, but instead enlarge it by policies and approaches which encourage age segregation and bias against the elderly, we will only breed a younger generation who has little understanding and value for the experience and wisdom that comes with age. There is a pressing need to bring the generations together, through inter-generational strategies. This means engaging the young and old in cross-age activities where both are valued as active and contributing members. The more common approach in Singapore today is to cater to the different groups separately, with programmes organised for senior citizens as a group and the young as another group. This will segregate them further. I would urge the Ministry to take a more inter-generational approach in framing public policy for the youth and the elderly. Today, more than ever, there is a need to take an inter-generational perspective to create policies that unite, and not separate the generations.

Sir, as we figure how to best prepare for the demands of our fast ageing population, half the battle would have been won if we could influence Singaporeans with the correct mindset. Positive attitudes towards ageing and the aged should be actively promoted. A mindset change needs time and a lot of effort to nurture, and I would like MCDS to prioritise and enable us to achieve the desired outcome. Older people should be regarded as useful citizens whose wisdom, skill and talent are valuable resources. The society will benefit if we tap these resources for as long as possible. The elderly should not be perceived merely as potential socio-economic problems. Not all old people are senile, moody and weak. We need to have our citizens move away from wrong impressions and treat growing old with dread. We need to show our people that ageing is not always associated with disability, and that disability in old age is often due to disease, which, if treated early, may not give rise to disability. An ageing society can still be active and vibrant. Octogenarians will be common and, in no time at all, many of us in this House will join their ranks. I would not like to think then that all octogenarians are decrepit, depressed or demented. Let us promote "A time to begin a new chapter in life by being active and involved: starting new activities and setting new goals" as our mindset towards ageing and retirement. Sir, older people can indeed approach ageing and retirement in new and exciting ways and MCDS can do much to help them realise that. A new survey of 803 American men and women aged 50 to 75 has found that 40% are working or plan to work after they retire, while an equal percentage do or plan to do volunteer work. MCDS should be encouraging and facilitating this type of attitude by increasing the avenues for Singaporeans to remain at work and to do volunteer work. Although we have a higher unemployment rate now because of our recent economic recession, we should have a long-term view and not be deterred. Matching the seniors to further training or to job placements can also be enhanced. People are tending to be healthier and are going to live longer. As we plan, we may need to turn full circle and adopt policies and programmes, provide retraining opportunities, offer flexible work hours and encourage those who want to stay on the job to do so. Sir, we have a large and increasing pool of volunteers to tap from among the older Singaporeans. Training them to be competent in different areas of our needs will give them recognition and worth. The volunteers should be recognised for their work and it would be good if they can get some privileged or subsidised care when, in turn, they themselves need community services. They should also be reimbursed for transportation and minor costs of incidentals. 6.00 pm

(In Mandarin): Sir, the aging population in Singapore is one of the matters that is of most concern to Singapore. By 2030, about 25% of our population will be 65 and above. That will give rise to a lot of social and national problems. This very important problem must be jointly resolved by the Government, the family and society, and we should prepare well in advance and reduce all the impact that may be brought about by the aging population. Over the years, the Government has introduced a lot of new measures to look after our senior citizens and it has been praised by many senior citizens. What I am concerned with is how to give more care and concern to these senior citizens. In Singapore, most families are small and, most of the time, only an aged mother or father is staying at home. If they cannot do any work, at the most they will go to the void deck to kill time. They feel very lonely and isolated. I have a suggestion. Maybe, in our community centres or in the old schools in our constituencies, we can set up a Community Senior Citizens' Institute so that we can make use of the facilities at our community centres to provide some leisure and training for them. We encourage lifelong training. We can open from 8.00 am to 5.00 pm. In the morning, we can encourage these senior citizens to do some qicong or exercise, and do something that is good for their health. We can also provide some educational programmes, eg, explain to them some of the important policies of the nation, and they can have lunch. In the afternoon, we can allow them to use some of the facilities, such as karaoke or let them learn computer or some language. Malays can learn Chinese, and Chinese can learn Malay, and they can exchange and build up a better cohesiveness among themselves. Sir, the most important point is that many of these senior citizens are still active and they can still work. We also have healthy senior citizens who can take up the job of looking after the old people at home. Some factories may need part-time workers. They can come to the CCs to employ these senior citizens. It is also good for the senior citizens because they can earn some extra income. I have spoken to the Mayor of our Southwest CDC, and we wish that we could set up this Community Senior Citizens' Institute as a pilot project in the Bukit Gombak Community Club. If this is successful, it will be extended to all the other constituencies in Singapore. So I would like to ask the Minister for Community Development and Sports whether he will support this suggestion or to give us his support and perhaps give us some financial support as well.

Sir, one of the MCDS' stated desired outcomes is to bring about an elderly community that is well prepared for old age. As we know, the number of elderly in Singapore will continue to grow from around 250,000 today to about 800,000 by the year 2030. With the trend of our young having fewer children and some staying happily unmarried, the proportion of the elderly, ie, those 65 and above, against the young and the whole population, is also set to grow. This is added by the fact that more people are enjoying a longer life expectancy. I am happy to note that the Report of the Inter-Ministerial Committee on the Aging Population has made many good proposals. Among others, it touches on health care, financial security, employment, as well as housing. In view of the current situation in the job market, the question of financial security and employment of our senior citizens has become a matter of great concern. Last week, for example, I was visited by a senior citizen who retired more than a decade ago, but continues to work today. At the age of 66, he still finds it necessary to find a job and continue to work to sustain himself. He is 66. He is still healthy and is keen to work because he needs to get some money to get by. But, at the same time, we have heard many reports of people who complain of difficulty in getting jobs even when they are only in their 40s. They are still young, yet they are not treated as young anymore. Many of them have young children in school. This trend could affect their ability to pay for their flats and to save enough for their old age. But can they have financial security? Sir, it is my hope that this year's budget and other measures taken by the Government to increase employment opportunities could help to solve the problem. At the same time, more workers should undertake skills upgrading courses so as to improve their employability. For, at the end of the day, I believe the elderly may be divided into two groups of people. One, those who would be in need of help and, two, those who are more fortunate and can help others. Between the two, we should have programmes that could match them. While efforts are being done by the various social and community agencies to assist those in need of help, I hope more efforts are also put in place to help the majority of our elderly to enjoy their old age meaningfully. One way is to capitalise on their experiences and skills. Many elderly are still able to remain active, given a chance. For example, there are retired teachers, nurses, police officers and people from various other professions. I have met many - and I believe Members too have met many of them - who are still able to contribute and want to remain active and be engaged with the community. Sir, I hope there is a way to assist as many of them as possible to remain employed or be involved in programmes that could keep them to remain partly employed and partly contributing to the betterment of society. Self-help groups and Community Development Councils, for example, can always tap on the expertise of retired teachers for their educational programmes. Similarly, I believe we should tap on the resources of retirees from other professions. They have wide experiences, and I believe these can still be put to good use for the rest of our society, especially the younger generation. There are also those who will find it more fulfilling to spend much more time with their families, especially with their grandchildren. As long as our elderly can spend their time happily and meaningfully, feeling secure financially, etc, I think they are fine. And I always believe that the best is left for those who care to plan early for their retirement years. In fact, I believe it is the only way to be well prepared for senior citizenship.

Mr Ong Ah Heng is not here. Mr Zainul Abidin.

Sir, after 10 days of Committee of Supply debates, one does feel that he ages a little! But in order not to give you more stress, I will try to keep my speech brief. Sir, when I reached 40, I thought it was the prime of my life. I thought I had a whole life in front of me. But before we knew it, we have reached 50. And, now, at 54, if it were 10 years ago, I would have been thinking about retirement at 55. But, alas, no. We now have to worry about what we have to do for maybe the next 10, if not 15 or 20 years. The point I would like to make is that there is a definite change in profile of aging. The people who are aging today are different from those who aged before. And there are certain policies which we have carried out earlier on, eg, 2-child family, may have an impact on the parents of today, with smaller families. Thus, many parents who are aging now are also facing a kind of loneliness. This shifting of retirement age from 50 to 55, to 62 and to 67, will also have an impact in the kind of programmes that we will need to prepare our society for the greying era. I was in Japan 20 years ago and I remember that, in fact, the Japanese had very extensive programmes - surveys and programmes were carried out. I am sure that Singapore can also learn from such more established communities and societies. I would like the Minister to share with us what approach the Ministry has taken in terms of learning from others' experiences, which are the countries that we have been to, so as to look at their profiles of aging, and what kind of programmes would be relevant to our needs. On the question of the changing profile of the aged, we should also realise that they are better educated, the point mentioned by Mr Maidin earlier on. I think we should find ways to tap their expertise and make them feel more useful. Although they may have reached retirement age, they can still contribute to society in various ways to make them more productive in part-time work, or in terms of helping out in community service. The final point I would like to make is this question of preparing for the aged should not be done when people are already retired. I think they should start early. And one way to achieve that is to have this blend of the not-so-old with those who are aging. In that way, we can make the younger people realise the need to prepare for aging and also to understand the problems faced by those who are already aging. This blending or bonding between the not-so-old and those who are aging would provide a very important learning curve for both age groups, and that will help us in preparing for our greying era.

Sir, first, I would like to thank all Members who have, in one way or another, supported the work of MCDS and its related agencies. Let me address some of the key issues first before I take some of the specific issues. Mr Charles Chong has raised some very thoughtful concerns about the ability of our current social safety net to help our low-income families cope with the changing social and economic realities. Sir, if the House allows me, let me explain how my Ministry is strengthening the social safety net in order for us to help needy Singaporeans. Sir, a net that was designed to hold a light weight needs to be strengthened to bear a heavier load. Our social safety net was designed for a full-employment economy. It is now coming under increasing strain, and two major forces are at play. First, economic restructuring and our move towards a knowledge-based economy will certainly put more workers at risk of structural unemployment or under-employment. Second, as has been mentioned by some speakers, demographic and social trends, such as smaller families, nuclear families and, of course, an aging population, will test the tenet of family as the first line of support. There is no doubt that with the economic downturn and restructuring, more Singaporeans, particularly our older and less-skilled workers, are in need of short-term financial assistance while they look for work. Last year alone, the Community Development Councils approved about 4,200 applications for short-term assistance, a 7-fold increase over the previous year. We need to ensure that those in genuine need receive effective and timely assistance, without creating an entitlement mentality and eroding the work ethics. 6.15 pm Sir, to address these challenges, my Ministry will put in place a three-prong strategy to strengthen the social safety net. First, we will review the policy design of the social safety net to ensure a right level and kind of help is given. Second, we will put in place programmes to help children from lower-income families access educational and development opportunities. Third, we will continue to build up the capability of the social service sector to deliver effective services to help those in need. Allow me, first, to explain the policy design of the social safety net. Our social assistance schemes are meant to help the most vulnerable or weakest in society. This is in line with our philosophy of self-reliance. Those who can help themselves and their families should do so. But my Ministry recognises that many lower-income Singaporeans are also lowly skilled and hence more vulnerable to losing their jobs as a result of economic restructuring. They also have little savings and limited assets to fall back on when a family crisis such as retrenchment strikes. Mr Gan has raised concerns over the adequacy of the Economic Downturn Relief Scheme. He has made some suggestions. I will address that later. Some Members also asked if more can be done to help individuals in need, be they older or less skilled workers, or even some displaced mid-level executives. Sir, work is still the best form of welfare. The longer a worker remains unemployed, the more difficult it will be for him to find work subsequently. We need to help him get back to work as quickly as possible. Today, the Interim Financial Assistance Scheme (IFAS) helps distressed Singaporeans with a short-term grant of three months in the first instance. There are no explicit conditions attached. To ensure that the help being given is effective, the grants will now be packaged with job counselling, job search and skills training plans. Recipients will be helped with IFAS grants for the first three months, and extendable by another three months if they are still unable to find work. MCDS will work with the Ministry of Manpower and the five CDCs to help cases in need transit as quickly back to work as possible. Sir, the above approach highlights a key principle of our social safety net, that is of "mutual obligation". While the community and the Government will try their best to help those in need, Singaporeans who have landed on the safety net must also recognise that their welfare and families' well-being are best secured through gainful employment, and they need to help themselves climb out. This may mean adapting to a new job, or a job that does not pay quite as well as the old job. Sir, there will always be needy Singaporeans who have no means of subsistence and are unable to support themselves due to old age, illness or some other adverse circumstances. They will need long-term care and support from the Government and the community. The Public Assistance Scheme (PA) is their main source of financial support. The Ministry last reviewed the Public Assistance rates in January last year, and in the light of higher costs that may arise from the GST increase, we are revising the rates again. The new rates will be announced towards the end of this year. Members would be aware that the CDCs also supplement the Government's schemes with their own local schemes to assist those at the margins who need help, but who may not qualify for the Government's assistance schemes. Mr Sin Boon Ann has mentioned a few examples of Singaporeans who would like to work but are unable to do so and yet, still need to support their families. My Ministry will look into the needs of these families at the margins, and how the appropriate group can be identified and reached without creating an entitlement mentality. Sir, I would like to re-emphasise that the family is still the first line of care and support for its members. In assessing applications for financial assistance, whether it be Public Assistance or the short-term Interim Financial Assistance Scheme (IFAS), case workers in the CDCs will look at the merits of each case as a whole. The CDC case workers have some flexibility in helping deserving cases, particularly those affected by job loss and those requiring short-term aid. Sir, my Ministry's second thrust is to help the next generation stay out of the social safety net. Mr Charles Chong has rightly pointed out the need for access to good child care. Poor early development is indeed a high risk factor in disadvantaged children faring worse in later life, and perpetuating the poverty cycle. Many who apply for short-term financial assistance now have young dependants. As far as possible, we should try to prevent these children from becoming the structurally unemployed of the future. Our challenge, therefore, is to help children from lower-income families access and benefit from educational opportunities available in Singapore. Several Members have also mentioned that studies show that early childhood education, especially for children from low-income families, is crucial to giving them a good foundation for learning and overall development, so that they can be prepared for school and, in the future, employment. Sir, for the past two years, my Ministry has been collaborating with Ang Mo Kio Family Service Centre to pilot an early intervention case management programme to detect and strengthen these families. The programme, called Healthy Start, initially focused on families with infants and young children up to two years old. The programme provides good grounding for the family to uplift itself by helping parents improve their skills and knowledge of child development, linking them to relevant community resources and services and extended family networks, and enhancing their family functioning through casework and counselling. So we catch them early, give them assistance, build up self-reliance within the parents so that they can run programmes at home on their own, and where they need assistance, they know where to turn to. We close the information gap. We provide skills for the parents. The pilot has shown some very promising results. My Ministry plans to extend the pilot to cover "at risk" children up to six years old, and to more Family Service Centres. This initial phase will be evaluated before new plans are developed. Last year, my Ministry enhanced the Centre-based Financial Assistance for Childcare (CAFC) Scheme to make childcare programmes more affordable for low-income families. We enhanced the subsidy levels in the CFAC Scheme to provide between $170-250 for children from low-income families. Families from the lowest-income bracket are eligible to receive the highest amount of subsidy and need only pay as little as $20 a month in childcare fee. This year, the Community Assistance Fund will set aside $2 million to subsidise childcare under the Centre-based Financial Assistance for Childcare Scheme. Dr Maliki has asked some questions about the utilisation rates of the Centre-based Financial Assistance for Childcare Scheme and what efforts will be taken to encourage more from the low-income families to take up the Scheme. Dr Maliki might like to know that in FY2001, the CDCs, who are administering the scheme, received nearly 1,000 applications. Of these, about 85% were approved. In terms of applications and approvals, this has been the highest attained thus far. Last year, MCDS officers targeted publicity at the service providers - the childcare operators, CDCs, Family Service Centres and self-help groups, as they are in touch with low-income families. We will try to extend this network as much as possible. My Ministry will continue to find ways to step up publicity efforts and our partners, whether childcare operators, social service agencies, Community Development Councils, Members of Parliament and families themselves - all have an important role to play in ensuring that low-income families utilise available childcare services to better their children's development. Mr Charles Chong has also asked about help for student care. With MCDS' subsidies, families earning at or below $1,500 per month need only pay between $42-$60 per month, depending on whether the centre is school-based or located away from the school. My Ministry will periodically review these rates. Sir, the third prong of our strategy to strengthen the social safety net is to upgrade the social service sector, to improve the effectiveness and the range of social services. We need to develop the capabilities of the social services sector. The voluntary welfare organisations (VWOs) are a linchpin of the social service sector. Many of them run programmes for the community. To help upgrade their services, my Ministry will provide more financial support to VWOs. This amount will be channelled into two directions. First, MCDS will increase the recurrent funding to programmes run by VWOs by $7 million each year. This will certainly improve the depth and the breadth of the services provided by our VWOs. Second, my Ministry will set up a VWO Capability Fund with $30 million over five years to support areas such as training, development of new services, organisational development and the adoption of info-communications technology. These are some of the things that we will do in terms of funding to help our social service sector build up capabilities to deal with the current problems that we are facing. Given greater public funding and increased public expectations about accountability, as well as service quality, VWOs will need to improve their governance, as well as service delivery structures. To this end, especially for clearer accountability, my Ministry will spell out service standards and other requirements in service agreements between MCDS and the voluntary welfare organisations this year. Furthermore, to assist the voluntary welfare organisations on their journey towards greater professionalism and enhanced service to their clients, my Ministry and the National Council of Social Service will provide extensive support to them through training, consultancy and other initiatives. MCDS is also working with the Ministry of Manpower and the National Council of Social Service on a pilot Strategic Manpower Conversion Programme to provide the necessary training for mid-career people to move into the social service sector, initially as social workers and social work aides. This will help to address the current shortage of skilled social service personnel and, at the same time, provide employment opportunities in the social service. Sir, I would like to take this opportunity again to re-affirm the fundamental principles underlying our social safety net. First, the family remains the first line of care and support for its members. As many Members have spoken, we acknowledge that the family is under pressure, and I will be addressing this later. But the "family first" principle still holds, and any assistance given should not supplement the family's care-giving role. The Many Helping Hands principle remains just as relevant, if not, more so, given the challenges ahead and the widening range of needs. The local community, the private sector, the people sector and the Government will need to work together to expand the network of resources to help families and individuals in need. Long-term Government assistance is directly extended where the individual is unable to work, and the family is unable to provide adequate support. Sir, within this social safety net, every individual and family in genuine need will be helped, either financially or by other means. Sir, Dr Maliki has asked about how CDCs have been coping with the administration of the various financial assistance schemes and about the profile of the people seeking assistance. The CDCs have seen an increase in the number of applications for financial assistance since they took over the administration of social assistance functions from the Ministry of Community Development and Sports. Prior to that delegation, each social assistance officer used to handle on average about 15 cases per month. Now, each officer handles as many as 45 cases per month. This was mainly due to the economic downturn as many retrenched Singaporeans are coming to the CDCs for the Interim Financial Assistance and job placement services. There has also been greater awareness of the availability of the social assistance schemes due to extensive media publicity. As the CDCs are on the ground and thus more accessible, this has also resulted in more people coming forward to apply for the assistance. The CDCs have helped almost 15,000 beneficiaries with financial assistance amounting to $9.5 million between April 2001 and March 2002 through the Government's social assistance schemes. In addition, the CDCs also disburse another $670,000 through their local financial assistance schemes. About 76% of the beneficiaries are HDB dwellers. The CDCs are also receiving requests from non-rental dwellings, mostly the smaller HDB purchased flats because of the recession and retrenchments. About 65% of the recipients under the Public Assistance Scheme are aged 70 years and above. On the other hand, 67% of those receiving help under the Interim Financial Assistance Scheme (IFAS) are below 50 years old, and about 34% of the IFAS recipients have below secondary qualifications. 6.30 pm Finally, Sir, in terms of processing time, the CDCs took an average of four weeks for straightforward cases, while complicated cases took about 8-10 weeks. Dr Maliki also raised the concern about whether CDCs will have enough resources to basically deal with these cases. I just like to assure Dr Maliki that we are in constant contact with the CDCs, especially with the Mayors, who understand better what are their needs, and how best we can assist in terms of meeting some of these demands. In fact, this morning I had a meeting with the Mayors for one particular project, and most of the Mayors informed me that most of their workers are out in the field, talking to parents and families, in order to assist them directly and quickly. Mr Sin Boon Ann has made some other suggestions, eg, we should do more to help the genuine needy who are unable to work, single mothers and the elderly; for MCDS to set a minimum standard of living, some form of unemployment insurance; and families on PA should be regularly counselled and not made to feel like beggars. I assure Mr Sin that the last thing we want to do is to make Singaporeans feel that they are like beggars. In fact, more often than not, we have difficulty reaching out to some of these people. Secondly, when we do contact them, and we offer assistance, we try to follow up with some programmes. It is always difficult to get in touch with them. So I would like to assure you, Sir, that we will continue to reach out to those at the bottom, because they need more help. Sir, public assistance rates are pegged to the minimum household expenditure. So, we must ensure that whatever that we do, Singaporeans continue to be able to at least enjoy that level of standard of living. Mr Gan has a proposal, ERAS, as a loan scheme to replace the EDRS. Sir, MCDS used to have a loan scheme to help needy cases set up small personal business efforts, such as school canteen operations, and the like. The scheme, however, was unsuccessful. For one reason or another, the businesses did not take off, and the loans were never returned. We are of the view that loans will be better administered by financial institutions who can assess and advise on the setting up of these small businesses. But I assure the Member that even after the economy has recovered, there will be assistance schemes in place, either at the CDCs or at the CCCs. As Members may know, every week MPs will receive requests from residents, and I know from my own experience in Jalan Besar GRC, we will activate a network of grassroots leaders to go out and assess what are the needs of this particular person, be it school children's education, utilities and what have you. The assurance that I would like to give to the Member is that, even after EDRS has been stopped, and I am not saying that it will be stopped, because PA will have to review this as we look at how the economy recovers, and I accept his point that there could be a lag between economic recovery and job creation, the schemes which are in place - welfare schemes run by the CCs and the Interim Financial Assistance Scheme by the CDCs - could be tweaked to fit the new economic conditions, in order to help those who may still need help. Dr Maliki also asked about the number of families who have received EDRS and what proportion who returned for more help. So far, about 10,300 cases have been approved. This is, of course, smaller than the number of cases who have applied. As you know, many people think that EDRS is an entitlement, so people who have been out of job, or the elderly, have come forward and demanded their $200. But we have approved only 10,300 cases so far, and it has cost Government $4.13 million. We are not able to provide the proportion of numbers who came back for help. As you know the EDRS cycle is now moving only into its 2nd cycle. We will continue to monitor the number of cases. If the cases do jump up, I think we will have to do something about it. With job-matching, Sir, as I have suggested earlier, IFAS, which is now without any condition, but once we link it to job matching and job counselling, this will help them to tide over their crisis and solve their key problem, which is being out of a job. In terms of the IFAS cases that Dr Maliki enquired about the turn-around time, roughly, we are talking about an average of four weeks for a straightforward case, but complicated cases can take 8-10 weeks. Some of the problems that CDC case workers have communicated back to us, through the Mayors and the general managers, are that, as I mentioned earlier, sometimes they are not at home, they are not contactable. More recently, we have written to all MPs that whoever may want to ask the Government to assist some of these families, to provide contact numbers so that we can reach them much faster. In terms of the percentage of cases approved, as I mentioned earlier, for IFAS we have about 46% for FY 2001. This is about 4,238 cases approved out of 9,216 applicants. I mentioned earlier about the case load in the CDCs. This is about 45 cases per month. More often than not, the kind of work that they deal with the families, I am sure Dr Maliki too will appreciate, is complicated and complex. It is not just a simple financial problem. There could be other related cases. So what the case workers have done is to intervene and refer some of these cases to Family Service Centres and VWOs. We assist where we can in terms of financial assistance, and we do a lot of referral cases downwards, towards the VWOs and the other agencies. Mr Sin Boon Ann has talked about unemployment insurance as a possible suggestion. I think we will all agree that if we have unemployment insurance, it will perhaps go against the interest of workers. Now, with companies paying retrenchment benefit, based on the number of years the worker has been with the company, companies will think twice about retrenching workers. Also, at the end of the day, like all support systems, it can be subject to abuse and lead to an erosion of work ethics. Some of the experiences that we have gathered from overseas, when we studied some of these social safety net programme, show what we called "bunching" in terms of many workers all of a sudden becoming unemployed when they meet the minimum criteria to be eligible for the insurance. So, they try and play the system in that sense, because they know there is a supporting network. Just like the EDRS, some came forward because they feel they are entitled, because they want to get the $200. Our view is that an unemployment insurance system may not be sustainable, especially in times of a prolonged economic downturn. I will go back to the first prong of the social safety net, which is to link all of the assistance programmes that we have to job matching and job counselling. We know that some of the CDCs have started this work, but we hope we will be able to make this as a formal arrangement, where possible, to bring the person back to work as quickly as possible. At the same time, Members will appreciate that there have been reports in the papers, and even in this House, about some families who are not willing to take up the job, because that is not the kind of work that they are used to, or not the pay that they want to enjoy. So adjustments will have to be made, and we will continue to do our best to ensure that the matching is done optimally and families are being helped. Sir, if I can move on to the next section, which is the Singapore Family. Many have spoken about the need to strengthen the family, and I think we could not agree more with all the Members who have spoken up. Sir, all of us recognise that the family is operating in a more complex environment. Globalisation and technology have changed the way we work and live. For many, material life goals take priority. In a more competitive environment, parents face work-life tensions, as they strive to fulfil their work and familial responsibilities. Often, it is the kids or children who feel the brunt of their stress. Sometimes people even decide not to have children because of this. Hence, I would like to thank Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon for her passionate appeal for us to help families, Mr Maidin for his well-thought views, and Dr Maliki for raising a number of key issues on the family. I think, like them, I believe we should never lose sight of the value of the family as one of the key building blocks of our Singapore society. Sir, many family problems could perhaps have been avoided if only the families had been aware of the problems earlier and acted on them. This is why my Ministry believes in equipping families with the skills and knowledge to strengthen their family life. Our approach is both developmental and preventive. A key developmental strategy is the promotion of family life education. Families can pick up family life education materials in public libraries, resource corners, such as the `Family Connections' set up in December last year at NTUC Downtown East Resort. Early intervention is the crux of the preventive strategy. This is especially important for families that are at risk. A good example is the Healthy Start Programme which I mentioned earlier, which helps to identify families with babies and young children who may need help. As I said earlier, the programme has shown some promising results. We are expanding it, but we will study it very carefully, because we want to make sure that by helping early we can prevent future problems. Therefore, I agree with Mr Maidin that we should expend more efforts on family life education for our young and couples intending to marry. Sir, I am pleased to inform Mr Maidin that MCDS and the Ministry of Education have recently launched the School Family Education Programme. This programme is my Ministry's latest initiative to make family life education resources available in schools for the benefit of parents, students and teachers. Students will be taught core values about family life. So they are exposed to what family life is all about, and their parents and teachers can pick up skills for parenting and maintaining work-life effectiveness. Since January this year, the School Family Education programme has been piloted at four schools, with financial support by three Community Development Councils and MCDS. The programme has so far attracted a total of 9,000 participants, including 3,000 parents from varied income backgrounds. My Ministry expects to extend the programme to more schools next year. The importance of involving children in family education is highlighted in our National Family Week this year. Children, as we know, play a key role in reaching out to their parents, and encouraging them to attend parenting programmes and bringing family life materials from school to home. Activities involving parents and children will be emphasised. I also agree with Mr Maidin on the importance of marriage preparation. The importance of preparing for marriage and equipping oneself with skills to stay married is frequently reinforced in the various public communication platforms that MCDS uses. These include TV programmes, advertisements, press coverage and other similar platforms. This is also one of the reasons why we set up the Public Education Committee on the Family, which was chaired by former Senior Parliamentary Secretary, Mdm Yu-Foo Yee Shoon, and now currently chaired by Minister of State, Mr Chan Soo Sen. Mrs Yu-Foo has asked about the 70 recommendations of the Public Education Committee on the Family. The recommendations are categorised under four thrusts. Let me remind her: (1) Imbuing the young with positive values towards the family; (2) Reinforcing marriage as a lifelong commitment; (3) Promoting family life and Family Life Education for all; and (4) Creating a Family Friendly Environment. Sir, as you can see, the recommendations cover the entire spectrum, from the young to those who are married, to those who are getting married, and also to creating an environment which is conducive for family. My Ministry will prioritise these recommendations according to whether they are impactful, and can be institutionalised over the next ten years; can be integrated into the lifestyle of Singaporeans; and can be sustained by community partners and other service providers in the long run. In other words, Sir, we are not just going to run the programmes, and then after that stop. But we want to find ways in which the programmes can be integrated, first, with some of our partners and, second, how we can make this as part of the lifestyle of Singaporeans. Sir, I now want to turn to the topic that is of concern to us all, and that is of marriage and procreation. I am glad that Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon has given me the opportunity to raise this subject. She mentioned that despite generous financial assistance, the number of births has remained low. Let me make two points here, Sir. First, our package of measures go beyond the Baby Bonus. I hope Members can recall what the Baby Bonus scheme is all about. For the 2nd child, we give the parents some money, and if they have a 3rd child we give them a bit more money for the next 6 years, because we want to help them. We are committed to creating a total environment conducive to raising a family. So we do not merely throw money at the problem of declining fertility. Our efforts include promoting family-friendly work practices, developing more and better quality childcare centres, public education, among other support services. My Ministry will continue to try and reduce the obstacles to marriage and having children. The Government, however, Sir, can only do so much. Ultimately, it has to be a community effort involving employers, religious leaders, people sector groups, the media, parents, grandparents, friends, MPs, and an individual effort. Employers, for example, must understand that their employees are not just units of production. Numerous studies have shown that an employee who can balance his work and family well will be a loyal, highly energised and productive employee who can contribute significantly to the company's bottom-line. 6.45 pm However, at the end of the day, individuals must want to marry and have children, and be prepared to make compromises. One cannot expect to be compensated by the Government for every sacrifice made for his or her family. The gratification and joy that come with marriage and family are what make these sacrifices worth it. Mrs Yu-Foo has asked about the work of the Ministerial Committee on Marriage and Procreation. The Committee, as Members know, is a standing one. It will give periodic reports and updates at appropriate forums. I would like to remind her that the Ministerial Committee delivered once in August 2000. It is now trying to conceive again, so that it can deliver again. Sir, she also mentioned about the social policies of Denmark, Norway and other countries. I agree with her that their benefits are indeed generous. Denmark, for example, spends heavily on day-care facilities for children and different types of family and child allowances. But, we must remember that in Denmark, total public expenditure represents about 60% of their GDP, and the social sector alone accounts for about 15% of GDP. We do not have such a budget. How do they finance this? Although their personal tax on income is not high, their value-added tax is as high as 25%. So, can one imagine if we were to raise GST in Singapore to 25%? Mrs Yu-Foo also mentioned that it could be timely to review the "Have three or more, if you can afford it" policy. I believe that the intent behind the policy is still valid, ie, couples who have large families must be willing and must be able to take care of their children. So we have to signal to families that there is a cost involved in having children and, if you can afford it, why not? The problem, I agree, is to convince the middle income and the well-to-do that they need not stop at two. I think it boils down primarily to values and expectations, which changing a slogan simply would not help. If our Singaporeans have a more holistic and balanced definition of success, they might welcome more children. Mrs Yu-Foo may also like to know that we are currently reviewing the Social Development Unit (SDU), and privatisation is one of the possibilities. I do not necessarily agree that the private sector can do a better job than the Government. But, nonetheless, one idea being studied, as Mrs Yu-Foo has suggested, is to privatise or let the private or people sector do direct services. SDU will then have a promotional and policy role. We will study in what way we can basically work better with the private sector or even other bodies, who are not necessarily from the private sector but from the people sector, to carry out SDU and SDS' work. Just to add, for example, in the Malay-Muslim community, part of the work is being done by the Muslim Religious Council where they take a slightly different approach - they work through informal networks and partners. So, we will try whatever that is needed in order to make sure that our efforts at encouraging people to get married remain successful. Mrs Yu-Foo has also raised the issue of abortion. I agree with her that abortion is a highly personal decision. Let me assure the Member that there are sufficient resources and measures in place to assist families who want to and are able, with a little bit of help, to care adequately for a child. They can seek assistance at community and voluntary welfare organisations, such as the Family Service Centres. As for abortion counselling, we, together with the Ministry of Health, can look into the issues raised. Dr Maliki has asked how our families are faring. A benchmark Study on the Singapore Family, conducted in 1999, showed that families in Singapore are still generally healthy. We probably have to update the study. But, at least, in 1999, the data showed that things are still all right with the Singapore family. Dr Maliki has also asked about outcome indicators. As a Ministry, MCDS is guided by macro indicators such as Total Fertility Rate, General Marriage Rate, General Divorce Rate. MCDS also uses attitudinal surveys and studies to supplement the "hard" numbers. Dr Maliki also asked about the remedial programmes for families that inadvertently break up. No matter how effective our preventive and development programmes can be, there would be families needing additional support. Hence, remedial programmes, targeted at families already in distress, are another priority for MCDS. Violence and marital problems are two major reasons why families break up. My Ministry drives and administers the mandatory counselling programme for family violence cases referred by the Family Court. We also work with the community to implement programmes to help couples consider alternatives before resorting to divorce proceedings. Family Service Centres and specialised counselling centres are our key partners. Some questions have been asked as to whether our programmes are effective. I would like to assure Members of the House that my Ministry puts in a lot of efforts to ensure that the programmes remain relevant and effective. For example, we have been working with the National Council of Social Service and Voluntary Welfare Organisations to put in place a Programme Evaluation System (PES) to help us evaluate and ensure the effectiveness of the programmes. This is a programme that we are working with the VWOs. It is being rolled out now, so that at the end of the day, the VWOs who are the social deliverers of such programmes can assess as to whether or not their programmes are effective. Before I move on to the next point, let me just address questions raised by Mr Ahmad Magad in relation to rehabilitation. Mr Ahmad Magad has asked about the well-being of young offenders in the juvenile homes. First, I would like to clarify that juvenile delinquency has been on the decline in the last five years. The number of juveniles who were arrested and charged fell by 30% in the period of 1997 to 2001. We also see a decline of 37% in the number of juvenile offenders admitted to the homes in the same period. A continuum of treatment options is available for different types of juvenile offenders. Those who have committed less serious offences are placed in voluntary welfare homes. Those who have committed more serious offences and need more intensive supervision and discipline are placed in MCDS' juvenile homes, and these are the Boys' Home and the Toa Payoh Girls' Home. Within the MCDS' juvenile homes, we segregate residents who are more vulnerable from those who are older and higher-risk offenders. So there is some form of segregation. My Ministry adopts a multi-discipline approach in rehabilitating juvenile offenders. Upon admission, a juvenile offender is assessed to identify his strengths, weaknesses and his propensity to re-offend. My officers then work with the juvenile and his family to draw up individualised care plan. The plan maps out the rehabilitation needs of the juvenile to enhance his success in rehabilitation. Sir, I would like to assure Mr Ahmad Magad that my Ministry takes every step to ensure that each resident in our Homes is given the appropriate rehabilitative treatment to develop him or her into a socially responsible individual. Like Mr Ahmad Magad, we are concerned about recidivism. Sir, let me now turn to how else my Ministry intends to support the Singapore family. Many speakers have talked about balancing work and life. Let me address this. As the Singapore economy restructures, work patterns will change. The family's position, as the primary provider of care and support to members, will come increasingly under stress. Sir, the Government recognises this dilemma. There is a need to balance the demands of life and work on Singaporeans. Our challenge is to facilitate Singaporeans in the pursuit of their aspirations, with regard to work and family, of preserving the quality of family life and maintaining Singapore's economic and social fabric. Work-life practices enable working parents to spend more time with their children. Also, singles will have more opportunities for personal aspirations, socialising and attending to the needs of their family members. Sir, Ms Irene Ng has asked what more can be done to push companies in the direction of work-life programmes. This requires a multi-pronged approach. In the first place, companies must be convinced that adopting work-life programmes, such as flexible work arrangements and employee support programmes, are aligned with their business objectives. My Ministry has taken a proactive approach by setting up the Work Life Unit (WLU) in September 2000 to promote a work-life friendly culture in Singapore. We partner MOM, SNEF and NTUC to organise the biennial Family Friendly Firm Award (FFFA), which is aimed at recognising companies for their pro-family efforts. This year will be the third run of the Award. The Unit networks and collaborates with partners such as the Employer Alliance on Work and Family, which is a group of Family Friendly Firm Awardees, the Health Promotion Board, the Economic Development Board, business associations and MNCs to champion the work-life issue. In addition, the Unit produces resource materials to guide organisations on how to implement work-life strategies and flexible work arrangements. Changing mindsets of both employers and employees takes time. We need to build the local business case to convince employers about the benefits of being work-life friendly. My Ministry will continue to work with new champions and explore new channels to reach out to more CEOs and HR practitioners. Ms Irene Ng has suggested that the public sector take the lead in pushing for work-life practices. Let me address some of the things that she has raised. The public service has already allowed Ministries and Departments to adopt flexible work arrangements provided there is no drop in service levels or increase in manpower cost. Depending on the nature of work, applications for telecommuting are also considered. So we have, for example, in my Ministry and some other Ministries, alternate Saturday off. Some people have come back and do part-time work. Since 1987, married female officers with children may apply to work part-time, up to a period of three years, subject to a yearly review. So we can make those adjustments. Other work-life friendly provisions include maternity and paternity leave and full-pay unrecorded child sick leave. In addition, married female officers are eligible for up to four years of no-pay leave if their children are below four years of age. Sir, I would like to add also that many companies have come on board. Personally, I think this is a very good programme. Those who are here, who are from the private sector, may want to consider this as an alternative, and they could discuss with their HR professionals on how work-life initiatives can be adopted. I would like to add also that ever since I took over the Chairmanship of MENDAKI, I have asked MENDAKI to examine how work-life initiatives can be introduced, because over 90% of the staff in MENDAKI are females. As regards Mdm Halimah's question about legislation, the Ministry of Manpower is reviewing the Employment Act and related labour legislation with a view to providing greater flexibility to employers to implement flexible work arrangements. We are, however, mindful that legislation could introduce market rigidities. The success of work-life strategies, such as flexible work arrangements, flexible benefits and various employee support programmes, is best ensured when companies are convinced that such programmes are aligned with their business objectives. We are examining this matter in consultation with our tripartite partners. Currently, organisations adopt work-life friendly practices as a business imperative. I am pleased that for this year's Family Friendly Firms Award, 435 organisations, compared to 344 in 2000, responded to Phase 1 of the process, which is to assess the extent of family friendliness. Of these, two-thirds have less than 200 employees. So, even the smaller companies are coming forward, realising that work-family arrangements are actually ideal and suitable for the modern economy, and will help them in terms of their bottom-line and productivity. The encouraging response shows their recognition of the importance of work-life effectiveness on the bottom-line. As aptly put by a US work-life expert, who was here last week and I had a chance to meet her, I quote her, with her permission, "When work is effective, life benefits. When life is working, work benefits." Sir, I think it is 7 o'clock.

We have half a minute left.

Sir, at the end of the day, I think we have to continue to reach out to the companies and convince them on the benefits of work-life initiatives. The Work Life Unit in MCDS is very active in this regard. We have had a seminar recently by an American expert for the past three weeks, meeting with HR professionals, talking to them about the benefits of work-life arrangements.

Order. It is 7.00 pm. Thereupon Mr Deputy Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Estimates of Expenditure for the financial year 2002/2003, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.

So be it.

Resolved, "That Parliament do now adjourn." - [Assoc. Prof. Yaacob Ibrahim]. Adjourned accordingly at Seven o'clock pm.