Hansard, 1975-03-20

Order read for resumed consideration in Committee of Supply [3rd Allotted Day].

Head P (cont.) -

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head P be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead CBA 1109. Sir, how far has the work progressed at the Bedok Cut Site, and when will the reservoir be built at the Cut Site? What measures are being taken to clear our canals of filth, and what action has been taken against offenders who pollute the rivers, canals and drains, although there is a general improvement in the cleanliness of most rivers and canals? I have observed that Rochore Canal is often heavily polluted with rubbish and oil and clearing up operations are slow and poor. As a result, it continues to smell badly. It is a common sight to see a considerable amount of rubbish floating down the Singapore River to the sea. Sometimes you can even see large boxes and huge pieces of rubbish floating down to the sea. Why is this important river allowed to be left like that? This is definitely unsightly to our tourists. I hope the Minister will look into this matter. What steps are being taken to improve the drainage around Newton, Kampung Java and Farrer Park areas? During the rainy season, these places are usually flooded. Since this is a central point between Bukit Timah/Thomson Road and the City, office workers always have a problem during rainy seasons. This problem has been going on for many years. Can something concrete be done about it?

Mr Speaker, Sir, the excavation work at Bedok is undertaken by the Housing and Development Board, and according to the schedule the work will be completed by the end of 1975. As regards the question of building a reservoir there, a feasibility study is being made to find out whether the soil can hold water. Construction of a reservoir will depend upon the result of the study and the soil test. I am glad to hear the Member for Anson say that there has been an improvement in the general cleanliness of our canals and rivers, with the exception of one or two. It should be so because we have spent $800,000 on contract labour for the financial year 1973-74 to maintain and desilt canals and rivers. In addition, we have our own fleet of 14 excavators to clean our watercourses of silt and refuse. It is a slow and unpleasant job, and it will take some time before we can clean all our rivers. But there is improvement. There will be more improvement if members of the public stop polluting the canals. The odour which the Member complained about is the result of pollution. There is still a good number of irresponsible people who persist in throwing rubbish into rivers and canals, though 9.800 offenders were taken to court last year for polluting our watercourses. Regarding flooding at Newton and Kampung Java areas, I think there has been a great improvement in these areas. The duration of the floods is shorter now and frequency of flooding is less. This is because Phase I of the project to improve the Bukit Timah Canal has been completed. Phase II is under study. It will take quite a long time to complete the work, and it is going to cost a lot of money. There are other matters which require priority and it will be some time before flooding can be totally eradicated from these areas.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am satisfied with the Minister's explanation but I would like to request that these canals be kept under frequent observation. The Minister cannot blame the people for polluting the canals because we cannot control them. If the people are disciplined and do not throw rubbish into the rivers and canals, there is no need to employ cleaners. Anyway, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Ng Kah Ting -

Mr Ng Kah Ting is not moving.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head P be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BAA 2110. The beaches around Singapore are one of the very few places where people can go to relax. Unfortunately, certain beaches are in a deplorable condition. To give an example, the beach at the end of Sembawang has not got even a single litter bin. In fact, the whole beach is littered. Pieces of glass are strewn all over the sand, and is a danger to picnickers. Furthermore, patches of oil are regularly found around this beach. Obviously they come from the shipyard which is just a short distance away. Since a good crowd of picnickers and swimmers go to this beach, why cannot we look after the beach and keep it clean? Maintenance can thus be summed up in one word "nil". Let us do something about it so that our citizens in that corner of the island are not completely neglected. However, I am pleased to say that the grass cutters have kept the grass in that particular area neat and obviously trimming has been done so often that it is the reverse in the case of the cemeteries at Chua Chu Kang.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I cannot reconcile what the Member said just now. On the one hand, he said that on that particular beach "maintenance can be summed up in one word `nil' ". But then he went on to say that "However, I am pleased to say that the grass cutters have kept the grass in that particular area neat", so there is maintenance. The deplorable condition of the beach is because people are irresponsible or careless. They continue to ignore the no-littering signs. Perhaps the Member was there when picnickers may have dirtied the place again immediately after the cleaners have completed cleaning. So I cannot accept the statement that there has been no maintenance. There has been maintenance but no amount of maintenance can prevent what he called "this deplorable condition". This deplorable condition is the result of littering by some people who use it. However, I think the long-term solution lies in educating the public. Until the public change their habits, no amount of litter bins, beach cleansing work and enforcement action can keep our beaches completely free of litter. There is no litter bin in the particular beach which the Member mentioned because when the tide is high it covers the beach. So there is no point in putting a litter bin only to see it float away later. On the complaint of oil sludge, may I inform the Member for Anson that the shipyard concerned has its own facilities for reception of oil sludge. The PSA also has its own facilities at Pulau Sebarok for removing oil sludge from tankers and ships. The PSA has also been taking enforcement action against sea pollution. We are at the crossroad between East and West, and hundreds of ships pass by daily. Some of the ships may have discharged their oil sludge while passing through without being caught. This is the price we have to pay for being in the centre of a very busy trading route. But whatever can be done is being done to prevent pollution of our sea.

Sir, regarding the Minister's reply about the litter bins floating away, I would like to suggest that the bins be fixed to long poles and then bury these poles firmly in the beach. In this way, the bins cannot float away. I am sure this can be done. Anyway, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. 2.45 p.m.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head P be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BCA 2110. Sir, most probably after listening to me the Minister for the Environment will get angry again. We have had a very active anti-mosquito breeding campaign. Yet at the Chua Chu Kang Cemetery the conditions are such that it is an excellent breeding ground for mosquitoes. At the entrances to the cemetery there are notices forbidding the use of flower vases on the graves. This is to avoid the collection of rain water which will then be a breeding place for mosquitoes. But as you walk further you find lalang all over the place, as high as the waist. If I am not mistaken, in the burial ceremony of a Catholic priest, on 24th June, 1974, a great number of mourners had to fight through lalang as tall as a man, and thick undergrowth. To make matters worse, there were many muddy potholes and pools of water all over the place - ideal for mosquitoes to breed. Such conditions make it difficult for anyone to move about in a burial ceremony or in paying respects to the dead. Surely, something can be done to improve this poor state of affairs at the cemeteries. Sir, are the plots for burials dug deep enough? They seem to be too shallow. A terrible smell pervades the air because of the shallow graves. Are the graves really six feet deep or are the grave diggers taking things a bit easy?

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Anson has given a poetic description of the graveyard and its surroundings. I am glad to note that in his description there is no mention of his coming across mosquitoes in spite of the fact that he had to make his way through muddy potholes of water. This is because anti-mosquito measures are being actively carried out all the time all over Singapore. Chua Chu Kang cemetery is one of the many places constantly checked for mosquito breeding. This cemetery is 900 acres in extent. Only part of it is developed. Lalang and undergrowth are cleared at four-weekly intervals, that is, once a month. However, there may be occasions when rainfall is heavier than usual, and this will cause them to grow faster than normal. Hence, the burial ceremony mentioned by the Member for Anson must have taken place near an undeveloped piece of land and at a time when clearing of lalang was due. While I can appreciate his very imaginative description of fighting through waist-high lalang and hacking through undergrowth, I must however accept it with a pinch of salt. However,' let me assure the Member for Anson that instructions have been given to my officers to see that the paths to the graves are smooth and clean. Mr Speaker, Sir, graves are not dug six feet deep. They are dug five feet deep, according to regulations. The Superintendent of Cemeteries is there to see that this regulation is observed when the grave diggers do their work. In addition, lime is added to the fill to prevent smell. Perhaps we can take it as a fact that public conveniences for men and women are usually quite a distance away from the burial site. I believe it could be that perhaps someone had to answer the call of nature at about the time he was there.

Sir, on a point of clarification, if the Minister will give way. Mr Lim Kim San resumed his seat.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I believe the graves do actually give out an odour, especially those that are freshly dug and burials done within one or two weeks. I can substantiate what my good Friend, the Member for Anson, has said, regarding the odour. I have been there several times and I know that this is true. I think it is most likely that this is due to the condition of the soil in that particular area of Chua Chu Kang rather than what has been vividly described by the Minister as "the call of nature". I think it has something to do with the soil. I am not an expert, but it is a fact that some of the graves do smell.

Mr Speaker, Sir, it has been my unfortunate experience during the last few months to have to attend quite a number of funerals. I have always thought that I have a sensitive nose, but I have not come across the smell that has been described. It could be that others have a more sensitive nose than I and the explanation given by the Member for Punggol is probably true. I have asked my officers but they cannot confirm it. However, it is possible that since the soil is loose after a grave is dug, the smell of decomposition might seep through the soil. But it takes a really keen nose to sense it. Anyway, if this is so, we will make further investigations and may insist on a deeper burial in the case of soil of this nature.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister has not answered the point about lalang. As soon as lalang is cut, it grows again after two or three days. To stop it, lalang must be uprooted and not cut, otherwise it grows again. Regarding the smell, the explanation is this. The lalang is about six feet high. The grave diggers can only dig three or four feet deep because the lalang is very high. The grave is also not deep and, therefore, the smell comes out. The main fault is the lalang. The Minister should go there and then only will he know what is going on. I am saying that this is a fact. If the Minister goes to that place he will then know it. It is a long distance away, and perhaps the Minister is unable to go there. An hon Member: He has no time.

The Minister has no time. But everybody must go there. One day he must go there too, if he is free. According to Hindu custom, the Indians cremate their dead. But now, our Government has adopted the use of gas for cremation. The Buddhists and Christians usually bury their dead. Even among the Hindus too, a certain group does not cremate those who die young. They are buried. All these matters must be considered. The main thing is that I am telling this House that the problem of lalang is very important. Once the lalang is fully uprooted, everything will be all right, the soil will be very clean. Anyway, Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head P be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead RCA 8101. Sir, I wish to raise two questions under this subhead. The Hawkers Department has spent a great deal of money on the construction of hawker centres to accommodate the hawkers in sanitary conditions for them to do their business, instead of in the open where they are exposed to the elements. The policy is good. But the design and construction of hawker centres, particularly the quality of materials, are open to question, and I doubt whether such an objective can be achieved. For example, in my constituency one hawker centre was built with very old building materials. In other words, old materials have been used for the construction of a new hawker centre. As a result, there are holes in the roofs and gutters and the pillars are very shaky. When it rains, water pours down through openings in the roof, and consequently the whole hawker centre is flooded on rainy days. On a sunny day the stalls along the sides of the hawker centre are completely exposed to the sun. They cannot do business in the sun. When the hawkers want to put up tarpaulin, they do not get the permission. As regards the design of the stalls in the hawker centres, I find that the size and space of the stalls are becoming smaller and smaller. They cannot meet the requirements of the hawkers. If the hawkers want a larger wash basin or a wash tub, there is not enough space. So most hawkers prefer to have a clear empty space for a pitch than a stall with all sorts of amenities that restrict free movement. What I am trying to say is that if it is the intention of the Government to help hawkers by spending so much money on them then we should build some decent hawker centres which are practical and will meet their requirements. The hawkers will then be grateful to the Government for putting up a very fine hawker centre. In this regard, Sir, I would like to ask the Minister some questions concerning the Corporation Drive Hawker Centre I that was newly constructed in Jurong. When will repair and renovation be made to this hawker centre? When will the leaky roof and gutters be changed or repaired? I would also like to ask the Minister whether a proper awning will be put up on one side of this hawker centre so as to provide shade for the stalls from the sun. One or two years ago a lot of licences were issued to hawkers, that is to say, hawkers were put under control by licensing. Once licences are issued, hawkers have to pay a licence fee. Pork sellers have to pay $30 per month, payable quarterly at $90 per quarter. For other types of stalls, the fee is $10 per month, payable quarterly. The licensed hawkers who ply on the roadside also have to pay a licence fee but they do not enjoy all the privileges that they are supposed to have. For instance, they do not have water supply. Sir, hawkers require water for cleaning and washing and to keep the place clean. This is a reasonable request that should be granted. I fail to see why the Hawkers Department has refused to grant this reasonable request for water supply. I, therefore, ask the Minister to explain. 3.00 p.m.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker. Sir, the Member for Jurong has raised a few questions in regard to hawker centres, in particular to Taman Jurong Market I. His criticism is that the design and the construction of the particular centre is far from ideal. I am sure he with agree with me that human beings are always making progress and are therefore always faced with problems, many of which have no solution. That is to say, human beings live in changing circumstances. So we may have taken a different view of a certain matter after a while. This particular market extension may be far from ideal because it was one of the first few to be constructed. In Jurong there are two markets, viz. Taman Jurong Market I and Market II. Between the two, there is a lot of difference both in design and in construction. The second one was built completely on the basis of a new design. The first one that the Member referred to was actually a conversion of the existing cooked food section. So in the process of conversion, some old materials might have been used. That is admitted. As regards roof leaks, we have already notified the contractors to take the necessary action for repairs to be effected or improvements to be made. Sir, I would also like to answer another point that the Member has raised. He says that the facilities in some hawker centres are not suitable. Most of the hawker centres are meant for cooked food and there is a great variety of food stalls, some selling drinks, some selling cooked food. Different types of food stalls require different facilities. But in the planning of such facilities, we can only provide facilities to meet the general requirements of hawkers, based on certain broad principles. As regards the Member's complaint that the stall is too small, I cannot see eye to eye with him. Changes and improvements are made from time to time, and we find that the stall's dimensions are becoming bigger and bigger. For example, the original stall measured 6 feet by 4 feet. The improved type is 9 feet by 7 feet which is very much bigger. Sir, the Government subsidises hawker centres very heavily. The licence fee for a cooked food stall is only $50 and yet we hear a lot of complaints and grumbles. On the other hand hawkers who are not licensed have to pay through their nose for a very small lousy stall in a coffee shop. This stall measures only 3 feet by 4 feet and the rent ranges from $100 to $300! $400 per month. Not only that, such stallholders in coffee shops are subject to a lot of restrictions imposed by the coffee shop owners. Quite often they are asked to quit. But in the case of Government controlled hawker stalls, the hawkers have a lot of complaints to make. If they really have so many complaints and grumbles, the best advice I can give is that they should get their own private stalls which can meet their own ideal requirements. This is my own personal view. Sir, as regards leaky roofs and hawker stalls exposed to the sun and the elements, we have several times consulted the architects responsible for the design, and a lot of improvements and changes have since been made. In cooked food hawker centres, there is a lot of smoke when food is being cooked. In a tropical country like Singapore, if the roof is completely covered then ventilation can be very poor and the whole hawker centre will be so stuffy and hot, and it will be very uncomfortable. Then there will be more complaints again. There must be provision for suitable ventilation and therefore we have provided openings and holes at the sides of the roofs. So, a little bit of splash on a rainy day is quite inevitable, because the hawker centres are not completely covered and sealed. In the mornings and afternoons when the sun is shining obliquely, a certain portion of the hawker centre is exposed to the sun. This is perfectly all right. I am sure we cannot have a complete perfectly designed hawker centre to meet the ideals of everyone. Sir, as regards hawkers whose requests have not been met, I would like to say that generally we accommodate their requests as far as we possibly can. In regard to water supply, the PUB is in charge, and it is not a matter for the Ministry of the Environment to handle alone. So we must have consultations to come to an arrangement with other relevant departments or ministries. But, generally speaking, whatever it is I am sure Members of this House will agree with me that, according to a Chinese saying, it is difficult to establish a business from scratch but it is even more difficult to maintain it. This is a problem that everybody, including a government, has to face. As the saying goes, good advice is unpleasant to the ear, so is good medicine bitter to the tongue. However, I would like to say to the Members who have spoken, that although they have made criticisms, some of them are constructive suggestions with good intentions, and I would like to thank them for all that has been said.

(In Mandarin): Sir,I am grateful to the Parliamentary Secretary for saying so much on how one should behave in life and about life in general. But he has not directly answered the points that I have raised. I know that the Parliamentary Secretary is good in tai-chi. He has admitted in his reply that the particular hawker centre that I referred to was built with old materials, which resulted in so many problems. So my question is: since it is the intention of the Government to look after the welfare of hawkers, why did they not adopt the improved design and use new materials? If they feel that a fully covered roof results in poor ventilation, then they could have planned a higher roof for the hawker centre. Why must they keep the roof to a very low level? This is the crux of the problem. My question is: when will repairs be made to this particular hawker centre? And no answer has been given yet. The second question I raised, Sir, refers to the supply of water, which is the basic facility required by hawkers. They may not ask for anything else. They pay a monthly licence fee and all they ask for is some water. The Senior Parliamentary Secretary says it is because of the problem of management, etc. Those are minor problems which can be easily solved. If there is any particular problem about management, I can help him to make arrangements to ensure that there is no wastage of water by any hawker. Therefore, I would like to ask him again whether arrangements can be made for water to be supplied to licensed hawkers on the streets.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I think the best is for me to arrange a date with the Member for Jurong for an on-the-spot check to see how the problem can be solved. If that is agreeable, I believe he should be satisfied?

(In Mandarin): Sir, I accept the Parliamentary Secretary's invitation. For the moment, because of the time factor, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $78,021,070 for Head P ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $82,700,600 for Head P ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head Q -

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 1004(The same amendment also stood in the same names of Messr Eng Siong and Govindaswamy). Under this subhead I would like to raise the point about the need for a clearer definition of our cultural policy. This would be useful for various sectors involved in cultural activity to orientate themselves towards. Such sectors are the Ministry of Education, voluntary cultural bodies, teachers of the arts, institutions like the Music Department of the University of Singapore, the People's Association, the National Theatre, RTS, and even the Ministry of Culture itself. Cultural development seems to me to occupy a rather uncertain place in the general pattern of Singapore's development plans. And yet such development is so important for nation-building and giving people a sense of community and solidarity. Here I take cultural development to mean development of the means and facilities providing access and participation in relation to culture. Presently, what are the rather blurred lines of policy that can be discerned especially according to budgetary allocation for cultural development. We find that there is good support for broadcasting and publicity. The rationale here is evident for this relates to communication between the government and the people. But other sectors within the portfolio of the Ministry of Culture do not seem, at least to me, Sir, to be receiving adequate attention in terms of financial support. Good support for art, for example, had to await the generosity and the initiative of the Singapore Arts Council. Contributions to cultural organisations have gone down suddenly from $110,000 to $20,000. In respect of cultural cooperation even expenses related to the ASEAN Permanent Committee on socio-cultural activities have been pruned slightly from $20,000 to $15,000. 3.15 p.m. Another example of rather indifferent attention to aspects related to cultural development is the question of the low grading for the post of the Director of the National Museum and inadequate support for the work of the Museum although it should be seen as a repository of the nation's cultural heritage, as a fine centre of display to interpret effectively to the community the meaning of our heritage, and as a centre of activities of a cultural, educational and recreational nature. Another line we can discern is that we subscribe to the notion that culture is not for the elite as judged from our activities like music and art for everyone, concert for the young people, and also from the activities of the People's Association. Yet after saying these things we could still ask what other projections, what plans for development do we have, what attempts are we going to make to bring our cultural tradition up to date and in harmony with our needs and aspirations Static culture is dead culture but we are very much alive as a people. For any kind of vigorous development in the cultural field, money is required. To make rich contributions to our culture, I am not speaking in terms of money here, we cannot rely on the development of amateur talent, as we have in the past. We must work towards having an adequate core of professional artistes especially for music and dance, and regular and organised effort has to be planned for the encouragement of the development of talent for drama, writing and song. In any attempt at projection one has to know clearly what we have at present. Indeed, it is possible to select cultural indicators and study them and make an essay of what we have presently and what we could do to improve the situation. These cultural indicators, apart from relating to the number of books in libraries, the number of radio and television sets there are, can also be represented by percentages of the population taking part in cultural activities, numbers of students of the arts, the proportion of the budget allocated to culture and the proportion of the cultural budget allocated to different aspects of culture, and so on. Culture is so important to national development that it is about time that systematic modes of examination are applied to our cultural situation for the purposes of projection of plans for cultural development.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I endorse the views expressed by the Member for Katong. The Ministry of Culture is the Government's agency responsible for the promotion of the arts and cultural activities. The responsibilities are very great indeed. It is charged with the role of raising the level of arts and culture, inculcation of patriotism and nation-building. It is also responsible for bringing about a colourful cultural life to Singapore, to enrich the material life and spiritual requirements of our people. These are very significant and heavy responsibilities. How much has the Ministry of Culture achieved? Over the past few years the Ministry of Culture has made certain efforts in the promotion of healthy cultural activities. "Music for Everyone" and "Art for Everyone" are examples of their achievement. In regard to the programmes of RTS, undoubtedly there has been considerable achievement and improvement over the years. We have very wholesome programmes from time to time, like "Youth Magazine", "Life in Singapore" and various forums and programmes for children, and also the cartoons. All these programmes are of a recreational and educational nature. But the frequency of such programmes is wanting, and I suggest that more programmes of this type should be broadcast and televised. The next complaint is that locally produced programmes are few and far between. Most of what we have are imported. Why should this be so? Perhaps the Minister will say that it is because we do not have sufficient local talent, and so it is not possible for us to have an abundance of locally produced programmes. If that is the case, I would say that it is not a very difficult problem to solve. The question is whether the Minister has taken positive measure to promote local talents. I am referring to the planning of local TV productions. If there is a comprehensive plan, then we can systematically develop local talent in this direction and thereafter there will be no lack of such talent. I hope the Minister will, in the coming year, take positive steps to promote the development of local talent. Very often we hear the Minister stressing the need for healthy cultural activities and the need to inculcate cultural consciousness so as to enrich the life of the people. These are very correct and proper objectives, but what is said is one thing. More important is whether such policies are implemented. It is only when action is taken that we can have results. So I would like to ask the Minister these questions: (1) Has the Minister any concrete plans in the coming year for the promotion of healthy cultural activities? (2) At the moment there are quite a lot of comics and picture books flooding the market and roadside stalls. I notice that such picture books of fantastic stories of demons and fairies are displayed for sale everywhere in Singapore. These take up a lot of time of our young people, particularly those in the primary schools. Instead of learning their lessons, they spend their time reading such fantastic stories and picture books which have very adverse effects on them. So the Department concerned should take immediate action to ban these undesirable picture books and publications so that our children will not be exposed to the "poison". (3) On the question of the establishment of the National Symphony Orchestra, I remember having raised this matter last year. At that time the answer I got was that the idea was good and that it would receive proper consideration. One year has passed, and I wonder whether the Minister has made any progress in regard to the proposal to set up a National Symphony Orchestra. I feel that the existence of a National Symphony Orchestra will add to the prestige of Singapore. That would mean that we would be able to develop a lot of local musical talent. (4) Over the past two years our cultural missions to Australia, Russia and Indonesia were very warmly welcomed. The performances of our cultural missions overseas had helped the people there to understand us better. Cultural exchanges were also promoted at the same time. I would therefore like to ask whether there are any such plans this year to send more cultural missions overseas. I feel that such missions are valuable because they promote better understanding and greater friendship between Singapore and the countries visited.

Sir, as we have been talking so much about Singapore culture in the past, may I know how much has the promotion of this culture achieved? Often, we find that the cultural activities of certain groups have been given lesser importance or even neglected in the multi-cultural shows. Why is this so? We cannot permit such things to go on, otherwise we will be going back to square one where each group would be looking after its own interests. The integration of the various cultures was strongly emphasised by the Culture Ministry in the past. May I know what has happened to this policy? Some time ago, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Culture led a cultural troupe to foreign countries to exhibit a sample of our culture there. What has happened to this troupe? We do not seem to hear much of it now? Sir, when the PAP took office in 1959, there were cultural shows organised by the Culture Ministry under the name of Aneka Ragam at various places. These shows were well patronised. I have raised this matter at the last Budget sitting. Nowadays the different types of cultural shows that we have do not attract a big crowd. Why is this so? There must be something wrong somewhere. Probably the people are not keen to view the present types of performances. Now, what plans are being drawn up to promote Singapore culture among our people, and how are we going to get our people interested in local arts as much as the Aneka Ragam shows? Another question I would like to raise is this: how effective is the Singapore Arts Council? So far what has the Council done to promote arts in the Republic? May we get some information about the Singapore Arts Council? May I also know what is the National Theatre Trust doing to ensure that the National Theatre is fully utilised? What is the profit that the National Theatre Trust has made in respect of the utilisation of its facilities during the last three years? 3.30 p.m. Sir, a few years back the Cultural Centre at Canning Rise was a popular centre for a number of variety shows. Now we do not hear anything about this Cultural Centre. What has happened? Is it still a hall for cultural activities, or is it being converted for some other use'? Or is it haunted that the people do not wish to use this place? Can the Minister explain? May I know how many of our local instructors of the cultural art have gone abroad to learn the tricks of the trade so that upon their return they can improve the standard of our local talent? I wonder whether the Minister will support this move to send such instructors abroad for further training.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Katong seems to have taken a very mercenary view on culture. His argument is that if you spend so much money on a certain thing you will get better things done. Therefore, it leads him to believe that if you cut the money for this item on culture, then you will get less returns in terms of cultural performance. Unfortunately, this is not so in the matter of culture. The same argument leads him to believe that if you place a person in the grade of `A'. `B' or `C', then you will get better performance out of him. I think this again is not true. Perhaps we should leave this matter to the PSC to decide. May I say that cultural matters cannot be measured by the yardstick of materialism. I think it is rather difficult to define cultural policy to the satisfaction of all sections of the people in our multi-racial society. What is regarded as good and refined culture by one sector may not be so by another. I do wish that cultural performance of a society can be quantified and a measurement found to indicate the number of units or output that culture can provide. Then it will be easy for everybody. It will be easy for us to apply for subsidies or more funds on the basis of the number of units produced, or we may impose certain cuts as penalties for under-production. But unfortunately, again cultural performance cannot be measured in the same way as we measure economic performance by the number of jobs created or comparing the GNP figures with other countries. I can only say that there are two important aspects of our cultural policy. Firstly, we aim to preserve and develop our cultural heritage derived from the main streams of the Malay, Chinese, Tamil and Western civilisations towards a national cultural identity. Secondly, we aim to raise a general cultural level of our people by allowing easy access to sources of culture and education as well as through promotion of aesthetic creation and appreciation, particularly among our young. The evolution of a distinctive Singapore culture is a continuing and long process. How long it will take, nobody knows. It may take a life-time. Nevertheless, there has been some success in the cross-fertilisation of the four streams of culture in the last decade. This is made possible by the effective use of the radio, television, the printing word and the mass media. As a result, we know more about each other's culture. There is a common sense of destiny and identity among our people. Our policy, therefore, is to encourage a harmonious development of the various cultures of the Republic. But in the transitional period, it is necessary to raise the general cultural level of our people. And to do this we are actively promoting cultural activities and artistic pursuits among our people, particularly the young. Our young people are given free access to all forms of cultural activities, although there are a number of Acts to protect them from the demoralising effects of undesirable forms of subculture. The various cultural activities organised by my Ministry and its various departments are aimed at inculcating in the young a love and appreciation of good music, the fine arts and the aesthetic things in life. Art and music are literally brought to the masses free or at a nominal rate so that cultural development could take place on a national scale. As a result, there is definitely a growing appreciation of good music and the fine arts among our people. It is now possible for my Ministry to give more active support to original literary and artistic productions. Our young people especially will be encouraged to participate in these creative activities, not only because they constitute more than half of our population but they are also more malleable to change and instruction. We recognise the role of culture and education as constant companion in the process of life-long education. Culture is not just something that happens. We have to educate or prepare the people for it. The Ministry of Education has helped to promote aesthetic creation and appreciation through aesthetic education. Similarly, our National Library, besides providing the essential reading services, has played an important role in raising the literary and cultural standards of our young people through exhibitions, concerts, film shows, lectures and demonstrations. The National Museum and educational institutions in itself also implement various cultural and educational programmes. It is for this reason that the funds allocated to the National Library and the National Museum have all the time been on the increase. For the National Library, the total provision in the Main Estimates has increased from $2.6 million in the last financial year to $3.1 million for the current financial year. This will be further increased to $3.6 million in the next financial year. Even provision in the Development Estimates for the National Library will be increased from about $0.6 million to $1.8 million. For the National Museum, the provision in the Main Estimates was increased from $2l0,000 to $360,000 for the current financial year. It will again be increased to $420,000 in the coming financial year. Everyone agrees that more money should be spent on cultural development, but then the same applies to every other department in the Government. In these days of inflation, it is necessary to economise and there is no exception in the matter of culture. The Member for Sembawang wants us to have more locally produced television programmes. I think some other Members will be raising this matter later on and I prefer to deal with it when the time comes. But at the moment I have this to say. We would like to have as many locally produced programmes as possible but it is not possible in view of the cost of production. The Member is also worried about the comics in the five-foot-way stalls which the children are reading. I do agree with him that it is harmful for children to read such material, particularly when the comics are unhealthy in content. I would like to assure the Member that the Publications Section of the Ministry of Culture keeps a very strict check on the import of comics. All imported comics must be declared at the various Customs check-points and have to be approved by the Publications Section before they can be released. The Section exercises very strict control on this, but unfortunately there is always the question of smuggling. I understand that these undesirable comics have been smuggled in by bookshops through devious means. We would, of course, keep a check on this by conducting periodical surprise raids on the bookshops, and if Members have any information they are always welcome to pass the information to me. I would like to assure him that we are taking all possible steps to prevent them from appearing in the market. As regards the National Symphony Orchestra, he has raised this question many times - almost every year. I must thank him for reminding me. We hive no plans yet to set up a National Symphony Orchestra. An ad hoc advisory committee comprising several knowledgeable persons in the music field was formed to advise, the Ministry on this matter. They have put forward two proposals to my Ministry and also to the Ministry of Finance. The first proposal was a very modest 39-piece orchestra which would require slightly over $1 million. Under the second proposal the scale was reduced to a 20-piece string orchestra and the annual maintenance cost was correspondingly reduced by half. Yet it would still cost half a million dollars a year to maintain it. 3.45 p.m. We have considered both proposals and we have decided that the cost is too prohibitive. In this time of inflation and recession it is not easy to convince the relevant Ministry of the intangible benefit of having a national orchestra. Apart from the financial aspect there are also other problems, such as recruitment of key musicians, training of local musicians and maintenance of public interest, which require careful study. So we have decided to keep the whole proposal in view. But I promise the Member that we are still keeping this proposal in mind, and in case we have a windfall from somewhere and if the public is ready for such an orchestra, then we would reconsider it. We have no plans to send the national dance troupe to foreign countries this year because we have decided that the money could well be spent in Singapore itself. In reply to the Member for Anson on the question of Aneka Ragam shows which had been discontinued a very long time ago. I think it is not advisable to revive it. He asked why very few people are interested in our cultural shows. The reason may well be that they are enjoying TV programmes in their own homes. They may not be interested' any more in the open air Aneka Ragam shows. Members must remember that Aneka Ragam was introduced before 1961 when we did not have television. The Aneka Ragam show , was then the only form of free entertainment for the people and, therefore, it enjoyed popular support. But now since TV has been brought to their homes or in the community centres where they can enjoy good television programmes, there is no reason why they should go to very far away places to watch the Aneka Ragam shows. . On the question of the Singapore Arts Council, the original objective was to establish an Art Gallery and an Academy of Arts to promote, encourage and advance cultural activities. Towards this end, about $1.1 million was raised. Obviously this amount was not enough for such proposals, and it was decided to utilise the money to build an Art Gallery in the National Museum. After that, the Singapore Arts Council will again utilise the remaining fund to establish a Fine Arts Library in the National Museum. The Singapore Arts Council has also given financial support to various cultural bodies. For instance, in the last two years it had sent one or two cultural troupes to Hong Kong. It has also supported the Singapore Youth Orchestra, piano and vocal recitals and other performances. They have supported all these activities. The National Theatre is also doing its best to promote cultural activities. The average occupancy rate of the National Theatre is about 15 days a month. The National Theatre Trust has been staging shows from overseas in order to increase the occupancy rate. These shows not only helped to foster a closer understanding between the people of Singapore and other countries but are also a source of revenue for the Trust. I must point out that with a very large stage and with a seating capacity of over 3,000 people, the National Theatre can only be used by large troupes which do not require good acoustics. However, the National Theatre. Trust will continue to strive for optimum utilisation of the Theatre by various means. The financial position of the National Theatre Trust has improved steadily during the last two years. The Trust incurred a deficit of $19,000 in the financial year 1970-71. But there was a surplus of $37,000 in the financial year 1971-72. This was further increased to $140,000 in the financial year 1973-74. The Cultural Centre at Canning Rise does not come under my Ministry. It comes under the jurisdiction of the Adult Education Board, which is a statutory body. I can assure the Member that it is not haunted. I see that many drama groups are still using that place to stage their plays and so on. However, because of the very limited seating capacity - it can only accommodate about 200 or 300 persons - it is, therefore, not being patronised by other groups which want to stage shows for commercial returns.

Sir, I asked the Minister what plans he had for the future development of cultural policy in Singapore. In his answer, what he was definite about was that there are no plans, for example, for the development of a symphony orchestra. He did give a catalogue of the achievements and the present arrangements for cultural development, in respect of which we are gratified to see that there is a lot of activity going on which we know about. But as I have said, in the beginning of my address, the whole point about cultural policy is vague. The Minister referred to the possibility of quantification. In December the Minister attended a meeting in Indonesia in which discussions were carried on about cultural policy and the development of the arts and culture in the region. There were papers which referred to the possibility of the quantification of data in relation to cultural development. There were instruments which were used in places like Soviet Russia and Japan and they were thinking of introducing these instruments in Indonesia. So it is obvious that there are possibilities of finding out how many people attend the dramas, how many people attend the cultural presentations, what sort of budget there is, and what proportion of the total budget this represents. On the basis of such examination we can quantify and make plans to see whether in five years' time we are one step ahead or one step backwards. I do not agree with the Minister when he says that quantification is a bit dicey because whatever instruments we are given, even if they are crude, are still better than nothing. Now, the Minister made references to me being mercenary. I say to you, Mr Speaker. Sir, that the Minister knows me better than to say that. If I say that our artistes should have a due return for their contributions, then am I mercenary? Even when I want the artistes to have at least a good life and to be encouraged to make their contributions? We believe that nothing is for free, except apparently in the cultural sphere. In respect of his reference to the Head of the National Museum (I am not making much play of that), he says it is not so much what we pay him as his contribution that is important. On the basis of that argument, we can go to every top civil servant and pat him on the back and say, "You know, it is not so much what we give you but your contribution that is important. So why don't you come down from Grade E to G?" or something like that. So I do not think his argument is necessarily one that holds water. In respect of quality, maybe that is something that we cannot measure. But, as I have said, if we want quality, then I am afraid we have got to pay for it. History shows that where there has been patronage of the arts, there has been a flourishing of the arts. If you withdraw the patronage, then the arts go down. If the Minister does not want to say anything, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of subheadBAA 1109* (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr N. Govindasamy). Sir, is it proper to raise a matter about the newspapers in this House? I want a clarification about newspapers publishing photographs of incidents such as a robbery, and the names together with the photographs of certain people are printed. These people can then be identified, and later on they can get into trouble. I wish to know whether I can speak on that topic here, as 1 am in doubt about that. Anyway I am going to speak about it.

Is the Member for Anson quite sure about speaking on it?

Yes. There is only one English morning newspaper available in town. It has dominated the newspaper market so much so that advertisers have full confidence in this daily paper. I notice that more than half of the paper is covered with advertisements.' It has become more of an advertising paper than a newspaper. I firmly believe that this paper - we can, in fact, call it the "National Paper" -should carry more news than advertisements. And when I speak about news, I must emphasise that I mean news of local events. It is agreed that we must have advertisements to cover the rising cost of newsprint. But nevertheless, to be fair to the newsreaders, news items should have a proportionate space. 4.00 p.m. Sir, the Minister may reply that he has no control in the setup of the daily paper. But then he can put across his criticism. Sir, I am not a journalist, editor Or a newspaper writer. But I do not know how far you will agree with me. I am speaking from a layman's point of view. Sometimes we find that the newspaper carries news With pictures which I think may not be appropriate in that issue. For instance, Sir, if you can remember the robbery and shooting incident at the Diamond House in Tanglin, the newspaper coverage of the incident included the picture of a hidden camera in the shop which had recorded the robbery. But then to-date, if I am not mistaken, One or two people involved in that crime are still at large. Sir, the question is this: the next time a crime is being committed, the criminals will look for hidden cameras, and thus the secret is lost. Again, pictures of men and women who had given information to the police or foiled criminal activities had been published. This heroic gesture may appear good for publicity, but is it worth while? I personally feel that information by way of photograph should be kept confidential. Otherwise the aides of criminals may be hunting for the informers and harm them. But, conversely, cases where much publicity is needed have been neglected. This is because this daily paper has a monopoly and it can do whatever it likes. In terms of cost, even if the paper were to increase its price, as it had done previously because of the increased cost of newsprint, the public had no choice but to pay whatever price was fixed. Sir, I have received complaints from local soccer players that coverage of local soccer games seems to have been neglected. We seem to have more publicity on foreign teams in the newpaper than local teams. Why is this so? Without publicity in the press, I believe that there is nothing much that we can do to promote whatever we have in mind. Therefore, I urge the newspapers to give greater coverage of local events. I say this because, as everyone knows, there is a soccer fever now in town. We can see that our one-time `White Elephant National Stadium' has all of a sudden become a place of prominence. Why is this so? it is because of the publicity that has been given to the soccer games between our national team and the Malaysian team that attracted the crowd. Otherwise not many people would witness the games as was the case sometime ago. Furthermore, with publicity we find that our players are encouraged to perform their best, and that is why our national soccer team has an unbeaten record of the support of the home crowd at the National Stadium. Sir, I would urge that the soccer section of the Press should give more publicity to our local teams for the purpose of encouragement, so that our soccer players cannot comment that the coverage is biased. Mr Speaker, Sir, posters of Members of Parliament are normally issued after an election. But only a limited number of these posters are available. Why is there such a terrible shortage of these posters? Furthermore, there could be considerable changes of MPs between one election and the next. Could not more posters be printed and circulated more liberally to all departments and units as and when changes take place'? In this way, the people will get to know their MPs better and be informed of the position they are holding m the various ministries and departments. By the way, Sir, these posters should be issued to the community centres because there had been cases of people from the other constituencies coming to see me. When I asked them to see their own MPs, they said that they do not know who their MPs are. It is most probable that one poster costs $4, so if an extra 100 posters are printed, it will cost only $400. As the Ministry of Culture is spending millions and millions of dollars, I think it is proper for them to distribute such posters to the various departments, community centres and at other appropriate places. I am not asking for the posters to be put up by the roadside. That is very bad.

Mr Speaker, Sir, until recently, all these years the Ministry of Culture printed well-presented calendars for distribution to members of statutory boards, the Citizens' Consultative Committees, management committees and other civic and community leaders who served the Government in one way or another. These calendars were also despatched to our foreign missions and our missions were able to distribute them to other friendly missions and friends who would be of service to our Republic. The calendars were also used in our Government offices and rooms of senior civil servants who had to use a calendar for various reasons. But this year these calendars were not printed. As a result, the annual gift to friends and well-wishers has been discontinued. Sir, the amount of goodwill lost cannot be equated to the amount of money saved by not printing these calendars. Today when we visit Government offices and statutory boards, we find all sorts of calendars displayed in prominent places. Some of these are pleasing to the eve, but others are downright out of place, to say the least. Sir, if the cost of printing calendars has gone up, we could have reduced its size. We could also have it printed on not-so-glossy a paper, and other means could have been found to reduce the cost. There is no good reason to completely do away with the printing of these calendars. Sir, I also note that this year the Other Operating Expenditure in respect of the Publicity Division, subhead BAA 2220, $306,000 is appropriated for production of publications and diaries for sale. Is the Ministry of Culture going into publication of diaries for sale when it has no money even to print calendars?

Sir, the Member for Anson has raised a question to which he himself has already replied, that is, we have no control over the press, and he knew it very well. But strangely enough, many people still believe that we in the Ministry of Culture do have overall power to control the press. May I take this opportunity to say that this is definitely not so? However, I think what the Member has raised has some truth in it, especially the statement that the standard of our newspaper has gone down. I agree with him that the purpose of a newspaper is to carry news and that advertisements in the newspapers should not be of such a proportion as to exceed the news coverage. But I presume the advertisements help to defray the increasing cost of producing a newspaper, and especially in times of rising cost of newsprint. If we want to keep the price of the newspaper down, we have to bear with the very boring advertisements. As I have said, the Ministry of Culture is only a permit issuing authority for the newspapers and we have no control over them. We have no say as to what should or should not be put in the newspapers. If the newspapers print too many advertisements out of proportion to news articles and yet people still want to buy and read it, then good luck to them. As for the Member's comment on the photographs and headlines in the newspapers, I am sure he will agree that this comment should be addressed to the editor of the newspaper concerned. But may I add this? Many of the points mentioned by him depend on the taste, perception, educational background and experience of the editors and journalists. But unfortunately the newspapers seem to have lost many of the good talented journalists, and good replacements are not in sight in the foreseeable future. In the old days, journalists were trained in the very hard and tedious way. They were recruited but not put to work immediately; they were called cub reporters. They were sent to the courts to learn about court proceedings and the process of the law, and so on. Slowly they worked their way up and then finally became editors. But this is not so today. The newspapers recruit people from the university, and they seem to have great expectations over what work they should be doing. After a short employment if they are sent to cover very simple stories, they become bored and if there is a good job such as a public relations officer in a hotel or a company, they would resign immediately. I think that is one of the reasons why we find that the standard of the newspapers is going down very gradually. This is not just the case with the English newspaper. It also applies to the other language newspapers, the Chinese newspapers especially. The journalists are not doing their job well. Speeches are not edited at all but produced in full. Of course, many MPs benefited from this because the speeches which they wrote are faithfully reproduced the next morning. Whether the public wants to read it or not does not matter. So long as the speeches can fill up the newspaper, they are happy. They have done their job. It is the same with the editors. 4.15 p.m. This is a very sad state of affairs. But how are we going to redress it? I think readers should demand better newspapers or allow others to form a company to run a newspaper. Unfortunately again it is not on the cards, because it costs quite a lot of money just to set up a company to run a newspaper. So much for the newspapers. The other point which the Member for Anson has mentioned is about posters of Members of Parliament including the Speaker and Ministers. These posters are not produced by my Ministry, but by Parliament House. In fact, this matter should be raised in the House Committee.

Point of clarification, Sir. When I asked this question in the office of Parliament, they said it should be addressed to the Publicity Division of the Ministry of Culture. Now the Minister says it should be addressed to Parliament. Tomorrow if I go to Parliament Office, again they will say "It is the Publicity Division". This is very bad. The Culture Ministry must take action on this. They have the Publicity Division. They arc spending more money, and therefore they can do it. He should not blame it on Parliament House.

Sir, I am not putting the blame on Parliament House. What I am saying is that we have not printed these posters in the past. So if the Member wants more, he should ask Parliament House because they printed it. May I also add this? I think a Member of Parliament ought to know his constituents and he should get his constituents to know him, with or without the help of posters. If after having been elected as an MP and for some time the people still have difficulty in recognising him as an MP, then something is wrong somewhere. The MP should find out the reasons himself, and not blame Parliament House or my Ministry for the lack of posters. I personally feel that this a source of embarrassment.

Point of clarification, Sir. The Minister said that an MP should know his constituents. I have no doubts about that. Every five years we go back to our constituents to be elected to this House. If we are elected and if they have any difficulty they will come and see us. Naturally they want to know the MPs. But there might be some constituents who do not know the MP for their constituency and they may have a reason to go and see him. Therefore, we must have posters of MPs in the community centres. But the Minister is attacking the MPs. Do not blame the MPs. I am asking the Minister for something, and instead he attacks me. This is not a proper thing to do.

Sir, it is not my intention to attack the Member. What I am saying is that there should be a rapport between the MP and his constituents. If he is a good MP then every one should know him. He does not have to rely on a piece of paper to get his face across to the constituents. If he has done work for them, they should know him. Whether they have seen his face or not is irrelevant. When the time comas for the next election, they will put an X against his name.

Sir, when people from other constituencies come and see me, I tell them this: "Go and see your MP." These people tell me in reply. "But I do not know my MP and where to find him." But these people are not from my constituency. I am talking about people from other constituencies. The Minister should not attack me and say that I do not know my constituents. I know them very well.

I am not saying that the Member for Anson does not know his constituents or that they do not know him. When people from other constituencies go to him and tell him that they do not know their own MP, then something is wrong with their MP and not with the Member for Anson.

Sir, I must take strong objection to that inference because so many' situations could arise. He cannot expect the MP to go round his constituency every day: the constituents will get fed up with him. The MP does go round his constituency during elections or national campaigns. Between such periods there could be movements of people. There could be people moving from Chua Chu Kang into Anson for example. Chua Chu Kang residents might not know the MP for Anson, because they, probably know only their MP, Mr Tang See Chim. By and large the constituents know their MPs. There could be the odd cases where the constituents claim they do not know their MP. So to give the impression that the constituents do not know their MP is wrong just because of a few ocid cases. What is required i.s probably posters of MPs at the community centres so that when people visit the community centres they can have the opportunity, particularly if they are new residents, to see who their MP is.

Sir, to cut the matter short, 1 think it should be the MP's responsibility to make himself known to his constituents. I am not saying that the MPs are not doing their job. But 1 think MPs should be ordinary people. Why should they want their faces to be plastered all over the place? If an MP has done his vrork, so be it. The people will remember him for �he good work that he has done. That is my personal view. But if Members think that having more posters will help them in their work, then we will try to help within our resources. In the matter of calendars mentioned by the Member for Telok Blangah, in 1973 we spent over $31,000 for the printing of the 1974 calendars. Last year, as a measure of economy, we had only $5,000. This sum is obviously not enough to print good quality calendars worthy of distribution to Government departments, individuals and overseas missions, and so on. So we decided not to issue calendars for 1975, because a calendar of inferior quality would be counter-productive. Diaries issued by the Ministry of Culture for use in Government and quasi-Government departments contain data for use in the civil service. For example, the 1975 office diary contains metric conversion tables, postal information, tide tables and so on. We have to price the diaries in order to recover the printing cost, because nothing should be given for free. 1 do not think any profit was made out of this. It is just a nominal cost that we wish to recover.

Sir, I wish to take issue with the Minister over the first point vvhen he answered the Member for Anson, and that is over the question of journalists. He mentioned about Members' speeches being published in full, and so forth. What is wrong with the MPs' speeches being published in full, if they are good? Is it not important that their views are expressed? In fact, their complaint is that they have not been given that much publicity. Coming to the question of the standard of journalists, it is very difficult to put the blame on the journalists. 1 know this from the journalists' union, which happens to be an affiliate of the NTUC. Their members feel terribly disgruntled, dissatisfied over the fact that the managements of newspapers do not encourage their journalists to improve themselves. Many of them want to improve them-selves professionally and their status. But if the policy of the management is commercially oriented, where very little attention is given towards the development of the standard of journalists, what can the journalists do about it? What harm is there for the Ministry of Culture or even the Minister himself to call up the managing directors of the news-papers occasionally to discuss about general opportunities for the journalists to improve themselves and about standards of iournalism in Singapore? Are these eflorts being made? Are the managing directors of the various news-papers being persuaded to give the sort of attention that they should give towards professional improvement of journalists in Singapore? This matter has nothing to do with control of the press. 1 think this has not been done. I think the managing directors and the people who are in charge are more concerned with the day-to-day administration and the profitability of the newspapers. This is one of the frustrations of the journalists' union. We all want to see an all round improvement in the standard of our journalists, doctors and others in our society. There is a positive way of getting things done and there is also a very negative way of looking at it. But 1 think the Ministry of Culture can do something about it. If the Minister were to exercise a greater influence on the authorities of the newspapers, perhaps they might be persuaded to show more interest towards this aspect of the newspaper operation, namely, professional improvement of the journalists. 4.30 p.m. There is also the question of working conditions. Like anywhere else all over Singapore - the civil service and all places of work in the private sector, dissatisfaction always creeps in and people get demoralised. I think we have seen this in all strata of our society. We have to have the same approach. The people have to be made happy, and if there are grievances they have got to he removed. I can speak from experience. The journalists' union, as I said, is affiliated to the NTUC. Its officials often come to the NTUC for advice and guidance with regard to their problems, and it is not just a question of dollars and cents. There has also been this desire on the part of the journalists to want to improve themselves. They are quite conscious of the need to improve their professional standards. Although there may be black sheep among them, most of them want to be good journalists.

Not mercenary.

Yes. This problem must be viewed in the correct perspective if we want to get down to the core of the problem and to rectify it. Otherwise there will be only shadow boxing and there will be more dissatisfaction and more malaise because we have not been able to get to the core of the problem. There will be no improvement, but there will be greater dissatisfaction and demoralisation.

Mr Speaker, Sir, on the first point, I think the Member for Moulmein most probably does not read Chinese newspapers. When I said that speeches of Members are faithfully produced in full, I had actually qualified it by mentioning the Chinese newspapers. If he reads the Chinese news-papers, he would find that they are not properly edited. There is no objection to publishing the speeches of MPs in full. I am not saying that they are printing them in full. I am saying that they are not doing their job - speeches are not edited, and whatever written material is handed out, whether it is a Government statement or any other matter, it is always faithfully produced. But we do not find this situation in any other newspapers. Speaking as a journalist, if we want to do our job well, we would first pick up the very interesting points in a speech and play them up. But in the case of the Chinese newspapers, maybe it is because of pressure for time or a shortage of manpower, we find that it is always poorly done. I am not saying that they are producing too much of the MPs' speeches. Maybe the MPs feel that they do not produce enough of their speeches, but that is a matter of opinion, What I want to say is that the speeches should be properly edited and rendered in a readable form and not squeeze everything into one whole page and leave it to the readers to interpret. As a journalist, I do not think we can tolerate this kind of reporting in a newspaper. But since there are only a few Chinese newspapers, there is very little we can do. The Member has also very eloquently spoken as a trade unionist for the Singapore National Union of Journalists. He has asked, "What harm is there for the Minister to tell, say, the Straits Times management, to do this and that?" I think there is a lot of harm in it. In the first place, why should I interfere with the internal labour dispute between the management and the union? Why should I, as the Minister in charge of issuing licences to newspapers, interfere with the promotion or non-promotion of a journalist in a newspaper company'? This should be left to the management and the union to sort out between them, and if they cannot come to an agreement then there is always the Industrial Arbitration Court to seek redress. Most of the points that the Member has mentioned concern the working conditions of the journalists in a news-paper company. That is labour dispute and it is not right for me to interfere. As to the standard and content of the newspaper, maybe we can as MPs raise our criticisms. But what right do we have to interfere with the internal dispute between the management and the union? The same question also applies to any other commercial firm. What right does the Minister have in interfering in those matters?

Sir, when the journalists submit their reports to the management, they are usually rejected. The Minister cannot blame the journalists because they are doing their work properly. It is the management that should be blamed. But we are not discussing union matters here. We are discussing matters on culture now. Sir, I beg to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Order. I propose to take the Suspension now. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

I suspend the Sitting now and will take the Chair again at 5.10 p.m. Sitting accordingly suspended at 4.38 p.m. until 5.10 p.m. Sitting resumed at 5.10 p.m.

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

Head Q (cont.) -

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by 10 in respect of subhead CAA 1107*. (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Ivan Baptist). Sir, news reading over the radio, through the Broadcasting station, is done at various times. Some of the news broadcasts are outside the normal duty hours, and as such the Broadcasting staff cannot do the reading. Therefore, they are covered by part-time news readers. News readers need to have certain qualifications before they can be selected. Since stiff requirements are laid down, it is not easy to get part-time news readers. With the present set of part-time readers, however, the news section is doing extremely well. It would appear that these men and women are paid $15 and $10 per reading on TV and over the radio respectively. Considering the distance they have to travel from the bus stop at Thomson Road to the Broadcasting station, and the odd hours that these people are required to work, the money paid is not really commensurate with the job done. It is high time that these rates were revised. Otherwise, we will never get any more part-time news readers the next time vacancies arise. Sir, touching on colour TV, last year there was a difference of opinion in this House when this item was debated at Budget time. Now, I understand that since the introduction of colour TV only about 10,000 sets were sold, and out of this number about 9,000 sets were taken up by the hotels. What has happened to the general public towards the purchase of colour sets? Are they adopting a wait-and-see attitude because of the speculation that the licence fee may go up together with the cost? But then, a considerable amount of money and manpower is being allocated for this project. It is high time that the Minister did something about improving the quality and increasing the frequency of colour TV programmes. Only then can the sale of colour TV sets be enhanced. Colour TV programmes in Tamil are non-existent. Why is there such a discrimination? Can the Minister do something to introduce colour films in Tamil? Besides, there is no Tamil programme at all on Sundays when everyone is resting at home. Surely something can be done about this. Sir, in the past, questions had been raised by me on the late screening of Tamil films, which went on till midnight, a time that was inconvenient for office workers and school children. We are glad that the Minister had done something to advance the screening times of these films. However, of late, the screening times have been gradually pushed back, and this is a return to the old system. I would request a timely check on this "relapse". Sometimes it would appear that films are not screened according to schedule. As a result, when one tunes in to a desired programme one finds that one has already missed some portion of the programme. 5.15 p.m. Sir, where Tamil `request' programmes on radio are concerned, the announcer indiscriminately mentions every name and address. This lasts about five minutes while one request song lasts only three minutes. In the end, listeners can only enjoy about five songs in a one-hour programme. Can something be done to remove this anomaly? Again Tamil programmes on radio end at 9.00 p.m. and after that it is well-nigh impossible to listen, in to some music or any other Tamil programme. Can the Minister look into this and ensure that Tamil programmes end at about 11.00 p.m.? I would suggest that the afternoon programme, which is not listened in by many people, be taken off and put on the air at a later hour. I have to bring this matter up because many Tamil listeners have to switch to foreign broadcasts after 9.00 p.m., simply because RTS fails to provide the entertainment that it is supposed to provide. Listening in to foreign broadcasts does not promote loyalty among the local population in Singapore. Furthermore, we are losing a golden opportunity to educate the Tamil speaking population because those are the very hours that most people like to listen in to the radio.

Mr Speaker, Sir, it is common knowledge that crime is on the increase in Singapore. The world has its share of lost souls who rebelled against established patterns, social order and morality. Many of them resort to militancy and violent forms of revenge against society. In a situation like this our mass media, especially television and radio, must he more discriminating in their choice of public entertainment. Films appealing to the baser instincts should he limited to the minimum; i.e. those television programmes depicting crime and violence which delve deeply into the techniques used by hard-boiled criminals to commit house-breaking, safe-busting, robbery, murder, rape and so on. Our youths can easily be misguided. They can pick up a trick or two to try their hand at these anti-social activities. In fact, this is what the under-world is doing all the time. While not being too puritanical by banning all these undesirable films, some of which are enjoying an unprecedented popularity in other parts of the world, some restraint must be shown in its choice and frequency. The mother and sweetheart image of our women is also being destroyed by depressing films and advertisements on television. The accent should be on better educational films to widen the mental horizons of our people, whilst also providing entertainment. The choice of good, clean entertainment is very wide indeed.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the point raised by the Member for Anson regarding the fees paid to RTS part-time news readers on radio and television is very pertinent. This has been a matter of concern to the Department of Broadcasting in recent months. However, no immediate increase in fees has been possible so far because the sum budgeted for is not enough. But in the coming financial year we have asked for additional funds. A revised rate of fees has already been proposed and, if approved, then the revised rates of fees for the news readers, i.e, the increased rates, will be put into effect in, the coming financial year. Regarding colour TV project, Members were informed during the debate on this subject in last year's Budget that as most of the equipment at the televi sion station was over ten years old and due for replacement, it was, therefore, economically sound to introduce colour television. It may be pointed out that compared with last year's prices, the cost of some professional television equipment has increased this year by about 25%. In last year's Budget debate, it was also stated that only overseas films, programmes and some local documentary films, totalling one to two hours' broadcast time, would be telecast daily in colour with the introduction of colour television,. This was effected on 1st August last year. The colour television programme now averages four hours daily on weekdays and six hours on Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays. In terms of the overall weekly output, colour programmes now average almost 31%. In addition, in spite of the lack of full switching facilities and trained personnel, RTS undertook outside broadcast by telecasting the National Day parade, the opening of Parliament and the Chingay procession in February this year. It also telecast live and in colour the World Cup soccer final and the opening of the Asian, Games in Teheran via satellite last year. As regards the sale of colour TV sets, I think it is a matter of opinion whether the volume of sales of colour TV sets is poor or otherwise. Statistics show that as at 31st January, 1975, there are about 11,738 sets licensed for colour TV. The licences for colour TV are issued by the Inland Revenue Department. I do not know how the Member got his figures when he said that out of 10,000 sets sold, 9,000 were bought by the hotels. I think it is completely untrue because the figures I have here show that the issue of colour TV licences averages about 1,200 per month. In the month of January this year, out of a total of 1,300 licences issued, only 15 licences were issued to the hotels; and in February out of a total of 1,637 licences, none was issued to any hotel. I do not think it is true to say that 9,000 sets had been taken up by hotels. But with the increase of hours of colour TV programmes the sale of colour TV sets may be pushed further. When the present switching system has been converted to colour in about two months' time, it is planned to telecast in colour the news and a few local programmes, apart from documentary. It takes time to train people and we have about 200 technical staff to train for this very sophisticated piece of technology. It is very time consuming. I would not say that there is no colour programme in Tamil. But I agree that it is not enough. Colour programmes in Tamil are very limited. The average screening time for a Tamil film is about 2 1/2 hours, and so it is very difficult to fit it into any standard television time slots, in order to make the programmes interesting to all sectors of the population, the programmes in Tamil would have to be allotted in a proportionate way. The Member has also mentioned about the punctuality of the programme. We have taken every step to see that the daily programmes are telecast at the times published in the press. Sometimes due to unforeseen factors, as for instance, the time needed to cover the Parliamentary report, the actual length could not be determined. Therefore, in such an event subsequent programmes have to be telecast at times later than scheduled. But it is not true to say that the programmes are put on earlier than scheduled. It may be later than the scheduled time because of the earlier programme being a bit longer than expected. Now, regarding the query on, the Tamil "request" programme on radio, it is the practice of RTS announcers not to mention more than 10 names for each request. For special "request" programmes, such as those relating to festive occasions like Christmas, Deepavali, Han Raya and Chinese New Year, more names need to be mentioned because there are more requests. But in a normal broadcast of such a programme, this is not done. In the allocation of air time, the size of the audience has to be taken into consideration, as has been the case for many years. Our schedule of programmes in the afternoon takes into consideration programmes for housewives, youths and students. The Member for Potong Pasir has spoken on filnis depicting violence and very undesirable elements in TV programmes. May � say that imported TV programmes for screening in Singapore are subject to very careful vetting. In 1974, 26 films were banned because of violent themes and detailed depiction of crime. 5.30 p.m. For the same reason 80 to 100 censorship cuts are made every year. For this year, up to February, four films havc been banned and 23 censorship cuts made on grounds of crime and violence. Apart from this stringent censorship, the number of police and detective dramas scheduled is regulated. Of the 225 programmes in a week, an average of only six such programmes are scheduled, and these are not telecast every day of the week. For instance, no mystery or detective programme is currently being telecast on Mondays and Tuesday. Programmes featuring ]aw enforcement officers and crime investigators comprise, in fact, only 5.7% of �TS output. 94.3% of transmission time is occupied by other categories of programmes. Even for this small percentage of police and detective dramas depicting violence and the details of criminal activities, detailed scenes on crime and so on are censored. Programmes which are finally shown dramatise law enforcement and substantiate the saying, "Crime does not pay." Some of the more popular imported programmes telecast by RTS are also subscribed to by 50 or more countries and in many different languages. There is a concern, in some quarters as regards the possible effects these programmes may have on vievvers. Studies on the effects of violence and crime on television have been made, but as yet there has been no conclusive evidence that correlates the rise in crime rates with television programming. In view of the constraints already enforced, as regards crime and violence in television programming, it is felt that at present it is not necessary to have any change on the present format of programming.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the public is vvondering what would be the licence fee for operating a colour television. As we have been having colour television foralmost eight months now, can the Minister for Culture indicate what the licence fee is likely to be? If he cannot, what are the reasons for not being able to give an indieation after having colour TV for eight months?

Sir, we have not made any decision yet on the licence fee for colour television sets.

Sir, can the Minister please indicate the likely reasons tbr not being able to make a decision?

The reason is that the number of colour sets sold to the public is still very small and does not justify an in-depth study of this matter as yet. We will wait until the time when more colour sets are being operated. When �hat time comes, the House will be informed accordingly.

Sir, the public is anxious to know about the licence fee.

Dr Tan, there is something wrong with the microphone system. Perhaps it would be better for you to write to the Minister for an answer.

Sir, in view of the faulty microphone system 1 beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead DAA 1108(The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy.)

Order. There is still something wrong with the microphones. I suspend the Sitting now and shall take the Chair again when the mechanical fault is rectified. Sitting accordingly suspended at 5.36 p.m. Sitting resumed at 6.24 p.m.

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

Head Q (subhead DAA 1108) (cont.) -

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am raising a point under this head, which I moved just before the technical breakdown to forestall, if possible, a poor measure that might be introduced in respect of the National Library. In the last year or so, there have been 15 resignations of young library officers from the library service. Apart from there having to be a reason why these young officers have been so soon disillusioned with the library service, there is also the problem of work in the library service being affected. The library service has been successful in evoking a good response especially from our younger citizens, and in popularising the habit of reading. Yet if one scrutinises the list of popular titles produced by the National Library over the past year or so, one cannot help getting the impression that the purpose why a book is borrowed is a very material and instrumental one indeed. In the nonfiction section, for example, Shakespearean tragedy, electrical engineering principles, strength of materials, biology of functional approach, are titles that one comes across again and again apart from the extreme popularity of books on Lee Kuan Yew. Further work has to be done obviously by the library to encourage the habit of reading for the sake of interest in reading, not interest in passing examinations and doing well in the General Paper at `A' levels. In the midst of needs and in the midst of dissatisfactions that seem to prevail, an additional irritant may be added to the situation. There has recently been undertaken a review of the operations of the National Library. I do not know what the qualifications are of those who are involved in this review but some of the proposals have aroused severe criticisms from senior library staff. One of the proposals, I believe, had it that it was possible to create a good professional library officer out of library assistants who only needed an `0' level qualification to become library assistants. I hope wiser counsels will eventually prevail and the situation at the National Library not made worse. If the Ministry of Finance wants to have a look, their officials should have a thorough look at the National Library and see it as performing a totality of functions related to the better cultural development of our people. The Minister has himself in a speech about a month ago - and I am speaking about the Minister for Culture now - recognised the onerous burdens and many problems concerning librarians as a result of the knowledge explosion. Let us help our librarians do their work better, not hinder them in the attainment of their professional objectives.

Mr Speaker, Sir, it is indeed welcome to see branch libraries set up in many new housing estates. But it would appear that in all the libraries the provision of reading mystery, books and journals, especially those pertaining to work of the various Ministries, is most inadequate. Recently some soil test experts were looking in the Queenstown Branch Library for books like Soil Testing by William Lamb, and Soil Testing by Tezaki, in connection with their experiments, but none was available. Moreover, in the National Library a great number of Tamil books are not available. Can the Library take steps to supply adequate reading material? 6.30 p.m.

Sir, first, the Member for Katong. He was doubtful of the Library Service scheme that we introduced to train librarians with `0' levels. May I correct him by saying that we are not really training librarians. They are called library assistants, not librarians. We are doing our best to maintain the present high standard of librarianship and we would not like to see it lowered. All recruits to the Government Library Service are graduates of recognised universities. Those who do not have the additional professional library qualifications, when first recruited into the service, are encouraged to obtain these qualifications by means of study at overseas library schools, either on scholarship or on no pay leave. The new scheme that he spoke about is for the training of library assistants, and not librarians, who would have GCE `0' level passes in at least five subjects. These library assistants will work under the supervision of professional librarians in the carrying out of the more routine work in Government libraries, such as the registration of readers, the loan of books, and so on. In this way, the professional librarians will then be able to devote their time 10 reference information and bibliographical services, as well as the promotion of reading, which their specialised professional training and educational background have enabled them to undertake. Far from lowering the standard of librarianship, we are actually trying to take away the burden of this routine work of the professional librarians, and we hope that this service scheme is going to work towards giving a better service to the public. The Member for Anson complained about certain books not being available in the Queenstown Library. May I say that the books he mentioned are of a very specialised category. If any specialist wants reference books on a certain subject I am sure he would not go to a branch library, because it is meant to serve the general readership in a satellite town. If the soil test experts, for instance, want access to specialised books, there are many methods by which we can get for them. The branch library staff would normally refer such enquiries to the National Library in Stamford Road where the collection of books is much wider. There are also other libraries in the universities and various Ministries, which have a very well coordinated system. If a certain book cannot be found in the National Library, the librarian will make enquiries for the public whether the book is available in another library. Regarding Tamil books in the National Library, I think we have quite a number of them. The only fault is that we do not have enough, because there are not enough publications in Tamil. The Member for Anson knows where these Tamil books come from. They are not published in Singapore. Only a very limited quantity can be obtained from Madras, India, and so on. The number of Tamil books in the National Library comes to about 61,000 volumes. This is about 8% of the total book collection in 1974, and this corresponds with the proportion of Indian population in Singapore, which is about 7%. And if only the Tamil reading population is taken into count, then the percentage would be lower. The National Library makes every attempt to supply reading material for its Tamil readers, but the number of publications in Tamil is very small compared to the publication in the other official languages.

Sir, the Minister referred to the percentage of the Tamil population. If we are to take the percentage of the reading population as a basis for calculation, then the libraries must also carry the same percentage of books. However, even the 5% of the Tamil reading population can read 8% of the books that are available. So the Minister should not make a comparison on the basis of population. The books are needed in the library, so that people can go and read them and get some knowledge about Tamil. I think Tamil is one of the oldest languages. So the Minister must find out what books are not there and he must try to supply those books. If the Ministry has no funds, he should say, "We have no money." That is all.

Sir, I am very reassured by what the Minister has said regarding the matter I raised. May I take this opportunity to congratulate the Ministry of Culture for the very good work the National Library is doing and, with that, I take leave to withdraw this amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. 6.37 p.m.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead FAA 1111. Sir, I have mentioned about the inadequate support for the National Museum and I would like to expand on this. I have already talked of the importance of the National Museum in nation-building and its activities being geared towards nation-building. May I express the hope that encouragement would be given to the expansion and further development of these activities with more facilities provided by Government. Admittedly, the measures taken to modernise the National Museum have included the provision of an art gallery. Most of the money in any case has come from the Arts Council. The measures have also included galleries and rooms for the display of the art collection of the University of Singapore and rooms for art exhibitions. While these physical amenities are coming up, the necessary staff to implement the plans of the National Museum have not been forthcoming. There are only two curators, one for art and one for anthropology. While the curator of art will take charge of the art gallery, the curator of anthropology will be responsible for a vast and bewildering range of subjects extending from prehistory through ethnology to present history. It would require a genius indeed to devote an adequate amount of time to so many disciplines, to such an expanse of knowledge, and excel in all of them. For a start, there should be an additional post of curator of history. There should also be an official placed in charge of public education if the National Museum is to be a centre for social Contact, cultural agitation and creative' activity. Again, I will admit that allocations for certain subheads in relation to the Museum have been increased. For example, there is $30,000 allocated for the acquisition of museum exhibits; but really this is peanuts. I am not suggesting that we go out and purchase something like the Mona Lisa, but we need to put vitality into the work of the art gallery which will have lasting effect on the cultural development of our young people and on future generations; we shall have to be a little more generous, Or we shall have to put out best foot forward in trying to stimulate the generosity of potentially wealthy patrons of the art.

Sir, for many years the National Museum has the unenviable reputation of being a quiet and mystic place, stuffed with dead animals and other objects. With the transfer of the zoological components of the exhibits to the Singapore Science Centre in 1972, we have taken the decision to modernise the museum and to have it renovated so that it may become an educational and cultural institution devoted to the technology, history and arts of Singapore and other countries in the region. The three basic functions of the museum are first, as a repository of the nation's cultural heritage. Secondly, a fine centre of display so that its exhibits may be better understood and appreciated. Thirdly, it serves as a centre of activities in order that museum-going may be an enriching personal experience of educational benefit, cultural value, and fun to everyone concerned. As a result of this, the National Museum has recently gone into two projects, which the Member for Katong has made some mention of it. The first project is to convert part of the Museum building into a modern art gallery. This is made possible by the contribution of the Singapore Arts Council. The Government also have a subsidy of $100,000 in it. The renovation work, I hope, will be completed by the end of May this, year. The second project is to renovate three small galleries at a cost of $355,000 by the end of this year. This is to provide latest display facilities to do justice to the art collection, which is being transferred from the University of Singapore, to be relocated and displayed at the National Museum. After being left alone for many years, these new projects will stir life back again in the National Museum. In the last financial year, even with comparatively limited resources, eight or nine art exhibitions had been organised, four of which were international exhibitions. There were many other exhibitions for students, young people and so on. We recognise the need to expand the service in the National Museum, and there is Government support for this renovation. 6.45 p.m. Although the Member has- described the funds provided for the acquisition of museum exhibits as "peanuts", I do not think so because comparing it with the past provisions, there has been a great increase. For instance, in 1973 we had only $3,000 for the acquisition of museum exhibits, and in 1974 this was increased to $30,000, and for 1975 it is again $30,000. Compared to other projects, this may be a very small sum but it is a great improvement over the previous years' figures. There is, of course, a need for more to be done by the National Museum in the years to come, especially the staffing problem, and I agree that we should look into this problem.

Mr Deputy Speaker, it is obvious that the Minister and I see not only eye to eye but almost word for word, judging from the fact that the Minister has used the words which I have also used previously about the National Museum. Obviously, we have been reading the same material, and with that, Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Ivan Baptist -

Mr Baptist is not moving.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of item (b) of subhead AAA 3020. Sir, the People's Association has undoubtedly contributed towards community development in Singapore. However, there are certain shortcomings that must be remedied if community centres are to serve more fruitfully the civic, cultural and other needs of the community they serve. While community centres are sufficiently well equipped and provide reasonably good facilities, others are not so fortunately placed. In densely populated housing estates where the residents are predominantly in the lower income group, the need to have proper facilities is relatively more important. .it is in such areas that more attention should be paid to develop a sense of community consciousness and cohesion. It is in my view vitally important for the People's Association to, coordinate with the HDB and other authorities concerned that in future housing development programme adequate provision is made for the building of community centres as well. It would perhaps be preferable to have standard designs for community centres so that some facilities exist in all community centres. In regard to the People's Association's policy pertaining to the allocation of funds, there are some disturbing inconsistencies. The general policy is that the People's Association will match its contribution on a dollar-for-dollar basis, that is to say, if the community centres raise $100,000 the People's Association will contribute an equivalent amount, subject to a maximum contribution of $300,000 where no community centre exists in the constituency, and a maximum of $150,000 where a constituency which has already a centre wishes to rebuild it. On the face of it, this seems reasonable but the rub is that some constituencies which have no permanent centres are housed temporarily in rented HDB flats and are insufficiently and inadequately equipped. They are temporary make-shift arrangements, and it is inequitable to allocate a maximum of only $150,000 in such cases. It is not right to treat them on the same basis as those which already have permanent community centres. They should logically be allocated the maximum of $300,000 to enable them to put up a permanent building. However, I would consider it reasonable to expect a permanent community centre to raise the necessary funds in order to introduce facilities additional to those already provided.

I notice there is an amendment* on the same subhead standing in the name of Mr Lee Yiok Seng. Would Mr Lee like to speak on it now? *The amendment reads as follows: (8) That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 3020.

(In Mandarin): Yes. Sir, I am glad to note that in this year's Estimates the provision for the People's Association has been increased considerably, it is my hope that the increased provision will further develop the activities of the People's Association for the benefit of the people in general. I would like to point out that the annual staff turnover in the People's Association has been very high. Resignations are gradually mounting, and they come to more than 10% of the total staff. This is detrimental to the development of activities in the community centres. The staff of the People's Association are properly trained and the great number of resignations causes serious staff shortages in certain cases. One of the reasons for such resignations may be due to pressure of work. Some members of the staff have to work from morning until very late at night, about 11.00 p.m, or 12.00 midnight. They are physically fatigued at the end of the day's work, and this may result in a loss of interest in their work. Due to the shortage of staff certain activities in the community centres are losing ground. There is also a lack of planning of activities. As a result, the community centres have not been able to play the role expected of them. Furthermore, Sir, the staff are fully occupied in their work, particularly those attached to the headquarters of the People's Association. They have so much to do that they do not have any time for the management committees of the various community centres. Therefore, there is lack of understanding between the headquarters' staff and the members of the management committees. In this regard I feel that there is plenty of room for improvement; otherwise the community centres will not be able to lend full effect to its functions. In the light of this, I would like to ask the Minister whether he has any plans to increase the staff of the People's Association to meet the need for greater activity in the community centres. Secondly, I would also like to ask whether any study is being made on the massive resignations of the staff.

Sir, I would like to support the suggestions and recommendations put forward by the Member for Boon Teck regarding the policy on the maximum amount allotted to the building of a community centre. I share his view that the existing policy discriminates the amount allocated to the constituencies. It creates discrimination among constituencies, because some constituencies for some good reason are able to build, through donations, a community centre varying perhaps from $4 million to $1 million. Compare this with other constituencies which, through no fault of their own and facing particular constituency problems are unable to collect an amount to build even a reasonable community centre. I think the Member for Henderson will be speaking on this subject on more or less the same lines. I would like to support that this policy requires re-examination. I would like to support that, irrespective of the nature of the constituency, the maximum of $300,000 be given so that any constituency can at least put up a reasonable structure with reasonable facilities. Failure to understand the thinking of the constituency problems reflects the non-practical approach of the People's Association. I would, therefore, strongly suggest that the Minister for Culture, who is also the Deputy Chairman of the People's Association seriously look into this question.

I notice that Members have been speaking on the subject of community Centres. There is, in fact, an amendment* standing in the names of Mr Lai Tha Chai and Haji Mohd. Ariff in respect of Head 0, subhead AAA 8301, "Grants to Community Centres". Mr Jek, since Members have been speaking on this subject, I suggest that we might as well call on these two Members to speak, after which you may then answer them together.

Yes.

(In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to thank you for your suggestion; otherwise I might not have a chance to speak on a matter of considerable importance. The People's Association have under its charge over 170 community centres. Some are situated in the kampung areas where the population is small. The People's Association, therefore, thinks that they do not play an important function and have closed them down. These rural community centres are very small with very simple facilities. Their structures are somewhat dilapidated and in need of repair and renovations. However, the People's Association does not want to provide the money. The community leaders in charge of community centres situated in crowded areas, therefore, decided to take the responsibility of extending or improving their community centres. 7.00 p.m. If a community centre is affected by urban renewal, it will have to be rebuilt. Sometimes in this changing age, to meet the development needs of the locality concerned, the community leaders would like to expand or rebuild the existing community centres or even to build new and better ones. According to newspaper reports, in the recent past many constituencies wanted to build new community centres or to rebuild or extend existing community centres. I can mention at least ten such constituencies: Anson, Boon Teck, Havelock, Jalan Besar, Kampung Chai Chee, Kim Keat, Kreta Ayer, Tanjong Pagar, Tiong Bahru and Toa Payoh constituencies. According to what I have learnt, they need building funds varying with the different types of structure required in the various constituencies. The funds needed vary from $1/2 million to more than $1 million, but my conservative estimate is that the total amount required to rebuild all these 10 community centres would come to more than S5 million, which is not a small sum of money. A few days ago the Minister for Finance said that $4 million in tax concession was a large sum of money. I would say that $5 million for rebuilding only 10 community centres is indeed a large sum of money, not to think of the other community centres outside these constituencies. Of course, all these need fund raising. But how many Members of Parliament have the experience of raising funds? some Ministers also have the experience of raising funds. There are three very popular methods. The first method is to publish a special publication and to canvass for advertisements so that copies of these thick publications will become commercial propaganda manuals. The second method is to organise variety concerts featuring star singers comprising chits and lassies from the four corners of the world, who would be invited to go on the platform of the National Theatre to chirp and chirr out "I love you deep down to your bones" type of songs. The third method is to set up a grand feast among the philanthropists and enthusiasts who would be asked to bring their friends to glut with rich and delicious dishes. Such a function would leave a residue of funds for the building of community centres. I am not against all these methods. But I say that if community leaders are forced to do such things, this will become a social vogue, a hot fad and a social force, then the situation needs to be reviewed. Why? If the Budget Section of the Finance Ministry ignores the reasonable request of the People's Association for funds, and if the PA officials in charge of financial matters would not adjust the present policy as what the Members for River Valley and Boon Teck have just said, then undoubtedly the trend will be towards the adoption of these three methods as the social vogue. The situation will arise when many people will be canvassing for advertisements; everywhere there will be people looking for powdered faces with twisting waists; and everywhere there will be people glutting and gluttonising on rich food. In actual fact, in the light of the President's speech in this House, all this is contrary to and not in keeping with the spirit of diligence, hard work and self discipline which we are trying to promote for the cause of nation building. This social vogue is a contradiction and a chord of disharmony. It will also have unfavourable effects on our economic, cultural and social structure in the long run. I would, therefore, like to make two very important suggestions to the Minister for Culture. I hope he will give special consideration to them or convey them to the People's Association for more study. First, develop the function of the Development Planning Committee of the People's Association, the chairman of the committee being the Chief Planner who is a professional man. Our colleagues have also suggested that there should be some liaison between the People's Association and the HDB, with which the Chief Planner is closely associated. The Member for Kim Keat is also on this Committee. He is a city planer himself. The Development Planning Committee should be able initially to project the future plans for the type of community centres to be built according to the needs of the urban and rural population; i.e, whether they should be of a certain size or type necessary to meet future needs. This careful planning should not envisage a grand and luxurious building with facilities that are not actually used, because it would be a waste of money. This is important. I do not think a community centre should have air-conditioning from the kitchen to the hall, which may appear grand but not practical. To me it is a waste of money to have such a luxurious community centre. If the Minister wants to build such a community centre in my constituency, I will say "no thank you" to him. I was saying that the committee in charge shou1d plan well as to where, when and how to set up a community centre in a particular locality. It should be up to the committee concerned to decide whether its members should be professionals in this respect.

Order. Your time is up.

(In Malay): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, Kampung Eunos Community Centre was built with the efforts of the management committee of the Centre. Members of the committee have worked hard day and night, in the sun or rain, to raise funds from philanthropists to build the Community Centre with facilities to serve the residents of Kampung Eunos so that they can spend their leisure time in various activities, as is the case with many other community centres. However, as has been said by my colleagues, the Member for Boon Teck and the Member for River Valley, it is true that there is discrimination in the allocation of grants to constituencies for the construction of community centres. It is not surprising that constituencies in urban areas, particularly the Ministers' constituencies, receive generous donations from philanthropists in their constituencies, lf $130,000 is collected in a rural constituency ten times that amount can be collected in an urban constituency. But for Kampung Kembangan constituency, I am sure everyone knows how difficult it is to raise $130,000 needed to build a community centre to serve the residents of Kampung Eunos. When the management committee submitted its application to the Director of the People's Association for grants, the reply was that there was no provision to build a community centre there and that they themselves must raise funds if they wished to build a community centre in their constituency. When they asked for permission to organise donation draws, the reply was that it was the policy of the People's Association not to permit the management committee to organise donation draws. Is this not dampening the spirit of the management committee? But surprisingly, as has been explained by my colleague earlier on, some constituencies have been given dollar-for-dollar grants for their community centre building fund. In addition, permission was also given to organise donation draws. Nevertheless, with the management committee's continuous effort and dedication to serve the community, the Kampung Eunos Community Centre was constructed at a cost of about $130,000 without donation of even a single cent from the People's Association. However, there are still many in-adequacies. It needs more facilities like badminton courts, basketball courts, sepak takraw courts, classrooms and raising the backyard of the community centre. In addition they need to organise courses and other activities. Letters of appeal were sent by the management committee about two months ago for donations but there was not even an acknowledgement, let alone a reply. Subsequently, the management committee expressed its desire to make an appointment to meet the Director or the Deputy Director of the People's Association to discuss the problem of Kampung Eunos Community Centre. But their request was turned down. There are many problems which cause concern to the management committee because of the indifferent attitude of the officers of the People's Association. The management committees of community centres consist of voluntary workers. The officers of the People's Association should be very careful and diplomatic when dealing with members of the management committees of community centres. The ideal is to maintain a dialogue between the People's Association and the management committees. The People's Association should not content itself with giving orders to the management committees through its supervisors, without advising how best to implement its instructions. I hope the Minister for Culture will ensure that officers of the People's Association are responsive to the suggestions and complaints of the management committees. Otherwise we will lose valuable volunteers who are prepared to dedicate themselves to the community. 7.15 p.m.

Sir, the policy of the People's Association is to encourage community participation and involvement in the building of a community centre. If the community can afford better facilities for their people, then they will build a better centre. If not, then they would have a standard-type community centre. There is no discrimination in this. Because of this, the People's Association has been encouraging the community leaders in the management committees and so on to collect funds for the building of their centres. This has been going on for many many years, and they find that this works very well. But at the same time the People's Association has found it necessary to upgrade the facilities in the community centres to meet the rising demand and expectations of the people. Therefore, the subsidy from the Government has to be increased. The Ministry of Finance, therefore, has been persuaded to increase the quantum of Government subsidy. This matter has been reviewed towards the end of 1973 and we have worked out certain criteria for the grant for building of community centres. The Member for Boon Teck is under the wrong impression that every constituency will be given an amount of $300,000 for the building of a community centre. I am afraid this is not so. According to the new criteria which we have worked out with the Ministry of Finance, for key centres, the maximum Government subsidy is $150,000 on a dollar-for-dollar basis. For urban community centres, the maximum Government subsidy is only $100,000 on a dollar-for-dollar basis. For rural community centres, the maximum subsidy is only $60,000 on a dollar-for-dollar basis. This upward revision of Government subsidies for the construction of community centres took effect only in the last quarter of 1974. The subsidy of $300,000 is given only to two constituencies, namely, Henderson and Toa Payoh. They were given this very special consideration because they were newly created constituencies and they were without a single community centre. In view of the inflation in building costs and so on, the Ministry of Finance has decided on an outright grant of $300,000 for the first centre in each of these two constituencies. But then, this does not include the cost of land which has got to be acquired. And, of course, the land cost would come to quite a lot more, which we have not worked out. From this, Members will appreciate the difficulty of building community centres. It is not possible in every instance to give an outright grant of a certain amount of money for a centre. This has to be measured by the number of people in the constituency and whether or not there is already an existing centre in the constituency. So this grant by the Ministry of Finance is very limited, and therefore we will have to utilise it very wisely. It is not possible really to give every constituency $300,000 to build a $300,000 community centre. I do not agree with Members when they say that there is discrimination in the distribution of funds. As I have already stated just now, we give a fixed sum for the building of community centres. A maximum has to be fixed, otherwise there will be no end to it. But above this maximum amount of Government subsidy, if the community leaders, and the people in that area can support or can afford to pay more for better facilities, then by all means they can raise their own funds. Otherwise they will have to be satisfied with the fixed amount. Sir, I am not very certain of the suggestion made by the Member for Henderson. He seems to be very critical of the way community leaders collect funds. Of course, they are trying their best. They may meet with a lot of difficulties but they are trying their best to collect funds to build community centres, It may be in the form of a variety show. It may be in the form of advertisements. But it is carried out in the good spirit of fund raising. Apart from that, I am not very certain of what his suggestion is. I think he is suggesting that we should build more centres but he also objects to the collection of money from the public. I am not very certain what he was saying. But I must say that his constituency of Henderson is getting very special attention from the People's Association. With $300,000, he can build a very good centre. The important thing is not how much money we should spend on a community centre. I agree with him that we should not have luxurious centres with air-conditioned rooms for the committee members, and so on. The important thing is, what kind of activities are introduced into the centre, and how well can the centre be used. I will just give Members an example. My community centre in Queenstown was built more than 10 years ago. I do not know how much it cost us. It should be about $20,000 to $30,000. But it is a place with a lot of activities going on. We have the Girl Pipers, a photographic section with a dark room, an orchestra, and many other activities too. I think it is how well we make use of the place. It is not how much money can be spent on the centre. Members should bear this in mind. If the centre is fully utilised, then I do not think that the amount provided by the Government is made inadequate. Sir, as regards the number of resignations by the staff of the People's Association, I think this is not confined only to the People's Association. Many Government departments are facing the same problem. The People's Association is no exception. What I want to point out is that the number of resignations is not so serious as the Member for Bukit Panjang wanted us to believe. For the information of the Member, resignation figures of the full-time staff of the People's Association in the last three years are as follows: Year Resignations 1972 119 1973 92 1974 77 For the same period, the total full-time staff of the People's Association averaged about 1,200. Therefore, in terms of percentage, the number of resignations has shown a downward trend from about 10% in 1972 to about 6.5% in 1974. I must also point out that the majority of those who resigned are Division III officers. So this does not affect the working of the People's Association. We are trying our best and, in fact, it is the standing policy of the People's Association to improve the general performance of Divisions II and 111 officers. The Organising Secretaries and Assistant Organising Secretaries are sent for training in the National Youth Leadership Training Institute. On completion, they are put to better use. Sir, there are many reasons for the resignations. Sometimes it may be because of the nature of the work and of the irregular working hours, and maybe the salary is not as attractive as those offered by the commercial firms outside. In general, I would say that to work in the People's Association, especially the field workers, there must be a sense of dedication and a sense of sacrifice. They should not expect normal regular working hours like office clerks. However, what we have done is this. We have asked the Management Services Unit of the Ministry of Finance to conduct a comprehensive survey of the entire organisational structure and other related matters of the People's Association, with a view to improving the terms and conditions of service and to provide better prospects for career advancement. Once this is done, I hope that we will be able to further reduce the number of resignations. 7.30 p.m. The Member for Kampung Kembangan has raised a point concerning his community centre. He was saying that when his management, committee of the Kampung Eunos Community Centre asked for permission to run a Lucky Draw to raise funds, it was turned down whereas other community centres were allowed to do so. I think he was under the impression that his community centre was discriminated against. Before 1973 the policy of the People's Association was not to encourage the holding of lucky draws by community centres for the purpose of raising funds. But as a result of intensified development programmes, people wanted more money and we had to yield to this demand. Therefore, after 1973, we allowed certain centres to hold lucky draws. The request from the Kampung Kembangan Community Centre was made before 1973, and therefore it was not allowed. This is a matter of policy and not discrimination. The request just came in too early. That is all. The Member also asked about the request to stage an exposition in Gay World and said that there was not even an acknowledgment letter. My information is that the People's Association had actually replied to the Member's request on the 29th April, 1974, advising him not to hold the exposition.

Sir, on a point of clarification. My management committee sent a letter to the Deputy Director of the People's Association two months ago asking for financial assistance to build a basket-ball court and to raise the backyard of the community centre and up till now there has been no acknowledgment to that letter.

Let us deal one question at a time. The Member was saying that he requested permission to hold an exposition and this was ignored. This is not the case because my information is that they had actually replied.

Point of clarification, Sir,I did not say that we had asked for permission to hold an exposition. What I said was that two months ago the management committee sent a letter to the Deputy Director of the People's Association asking for financial assistance to build a basket-ball court and to raise the backyard of the community centre and up till now there has been no acknowledgment.

Sir, I think that is because all requests for funds usually go to the Board of Management for decision, and this Board sits once a month. Maybe they are now in the process of replying to his letter. Did I hear the Member say something about the holding of an exposition, in Gay World?

No.

In that case, I would not want to go further into it.

(In Mandarin): Sir, 1 would like to clarify certain points. The Minister for Culture said just now that he had the impression that I am opposed to donations. I would like to say that I do not oppose because donations are given every year in connection with the activities of community centres. What I touched on was the building of community centres. I have even given figures to show that the funds required in each case range from $� million to more than $1 million. If a community centre wants to raise funds - in fact, many community centres want to do so - there are other organisations too that want to raise funds. What is he going to do about it? All I am saying is that the Development Committee of the People's Association should decide on the type and size of the community centre to be built, whether it should be square or round and matters relating thereto, After the decision is made, the People's Association must be consistent in the policy. They should not later argue that because a certain constituency is a Minister's constituency they should give it priority over a Backbencher's constitiency. What I am trying to say is that personal considerations should not be allowed to influence priority. This is important. Of course, flexibility could be allowed because of financial position. But, there must be some consistency in the policy to carry the job through to the finish. The second point is that - Sir, allow me another minute - in my constituency although I may get a moderate community centre with a $300,000 grant, last year's planning for our community centre was a budget of about $600,000 and the Development Committee of the People's Association had decided to approve it. However, the People's Association finally told us that since there were no funds available we would not have a new community centre and whether we would be satisfied with a smaller one. I must stress the point that the People's Association must be consistent. There should not be any variation merely because of certain personal or financial relationship with the Ministry of Finance so that the People's Association could suddenly change its mind, thus causing delay in social development. How is the People's Association going to promote youth movement in this way? I hope the Minister will kindly convey my opinion to the People's Association that development planning must be consistently carried out.

Sir, just now the Minister for `Culture said that the Board of the People's Association meets only once a month. The letter I was talking about was sent to the People's Association two months ago. At least it should have the courtesy to acknowledge receipt of the letter.

Sir, the Minister for Culture has not answered most of my questions. First, I would like to know from the Minister whether priority will be given to the building of a community centre in an area where the majority of residents are in the lower income group. Secondly, does the People's Association consider it good to have a standard type of community centre, as recommended by them? This has been pointed out by the Minister and so do most of my colleagues. The minimum cost is $500,000. An hon. Member: The price might go up.

Yes, the price might go up. Thirdly, I am sure that in my prepared speech I did not say that in areas where there are no community centres they can claim a maximum of $300,000. I said "subject to a maximum of $300,000." There are two situations involving community centres in the constituencies. One is where you do not have a community centre at all. Another is where the community centre occupies a rented premises. I told the Director of the People's Association that if this was the case I had better close my community centre, which premises is a rented one, for six months, and could I then claim for a maximum grant? I should say that what we ought to be interested in is not to ask for a grand community centre with air-conditioning and so on, but a community centre which provides all the necessary facilities as in any other community centre. I am sure I did not mention that the question of a dollar-for-dollar donation is no good. I say this is encouraging, and I am prepared to go along with this idea. I am sure all Members of Parliament accept that this is a good way to develop civic consciousness among our constituents.

(In Mandarin): Sir, just now I heard the Minister for Culture saying that the People's Association does not discriminate against the various constituencies. I was not happy to hear that. Originally I had no intention to talk on this topic as I thought that the People's Association is a piece of rotten wood that cannot be used for carving, and there is no remedy to it. But, after having heard what my colleagues had said about the People's Association, I have got to stand up to support them. In my constituency there is a small-sized community centre, the Bartley Community Centre. In 1970 when the community centre was set up, the place was already dilapidated. The planks were about to collapse. So we decided to raise funds to rebuild it. After a certain amount had been raised, we heard nothing more from the People's Association. We then asked for permission to "tender", but there was no news. Five years have already passed. But still I did not want to talk about it, because I want to see how long is the People's Association going to delay this matter. I believe that if the Bartley Community Centre were in a Minister's constituency, then if a centre was asked for by tomorrow, it would already have been built by yesterday.

Sir, may I reply to the Member for Henderson. There is actually at present a Development Committee looking into the facilities for community centres in all the constituencies. This Development Committee has the discretion to decide whether or not priority should be given to a centre. That is always the case in the People's Association. Let me emphasise here that there is no discrimination in the building of a centre or in attending to the work of the various constituencies. For example, the community centres which are now under construction are: the Jurong New Town Community Centre, the Sennett Community Centre, and the Joo Chiat Community Centre. I do not know whether any one of these falls in a constituency where the Member of Parliament is a Minister. I do not think Jurong is a Minister's constituency. So are Sennett and Joo Chiat. So neither has priority been given to any one of these constituencies. This is not because the MP of that area is a Minister but because of the urgency and the decision made by the Development Committee. It could be that funds have been made available by the hard work of the community leaders in that area. So the allegation of favouritism or discrimination has no grounds really. If there is discrimination, then the glaring example should be seen in Queenstown, where I am the MP. But anyone can have a look at the Queenstown Community Centre to see whether any priority or favouritism has been given to that centre. 7.45 p.m. The Member for Boon Teck has asked me to clarify certain points. First, whether any priority is given. I think we do, but not according to whether the MP is a Minister but according to whether that area has a centre or not. For instance, we have given priority to Henderson and Toa Payoh. In the case of Henderson, we have even gone out of our way to increase the subsidy, but the MP or the people there do not seem to like the design and so there has been some disagreement. Therefore, the project has been held up. We had an argument with the Ministry of Finance and finally we managed to secure more money for Henderson. We got $300,000 and the People's Association was also prepared to dig out from its savings another $100,000 to add to the building cost of the Henderson community centre. The second question which the Member asked is whether or not it is a good idea to have a standard type community centre. I personally think that it may not be a good idea to have the same type of community centre in every constituency. We should allow some free-play of design, since we have so many architects. In this way, we could find the, best possible solution for our requirements. I do not know about the delay in the building of a community centre in Paya Lebar, but I presume it must be a small rural type of centre. It is our policy to discourage the rural type of community centres. With better communication and so on, it is a good idea for community centres to pool their resources in order to build a good centre rather than to spread them out in too many areas and build a sub-standard type of centre.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like the Minister to clarify this point. The Member for Henderson should be happy to receive $300,Q00. The Member for Toa Payoh will also be getting $300,000. Boon Teck is also a new constituency, and it is the smallest of all the 65 constituencies. It has only one road. An hon. Member: No need for a community centre.

Yes, no need for a community centre. Perhaps my constituents can share the use of the community centre at Toa Payoh. But, nevertheless, my constituents feel that there is a need for a community centre because more than 75% of them live in one-room flats. A community centre will not only provide the social and cultural activities for the lower income group but it will also be used by students to study there. I think this is more urgent and the Minister for Culture should convince the Minister for Finance to increase the sum of $300,000, which I consider is very unrealistic. The next point is if there is no discrimination, why is Boon Teck constituency given $150,000 against Henderson's $400,000? I am sure the Member for Kim Keat will support me, but unfortunately lie is in the People's Association and he cannot stand up to support me. Boon Teck constituency has a community centre housed in a rented shop premises which has been converted into a temporary community centre. May I request the Minister to enlighten me?

I think we would leave this request for consideration. It may be that the constituency is so small that it is unrealistic to have a community centre there.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think it is unfair for the Minister to say this. I have consulted the Director of the People's Association and I have pointed out to him that Boon Teck constituency is in urgent need of a community centre.

Sir, there are a number of reasons why a community centre is not built in Boon Teck, it may be that land is not available. It may be that money is also not available. There arc also other reasons, but I can assure the Member that if the right combination of reasons is found and if there is a good case we would, of course, support his request to build a community centre at Boon Teck.

Sir, I would like the Minister to enlighten me on one point.

Mr Phey, I do not think we can prolong the debate any longer. Would you like to withdraw your amendment or shall I put it to the vote?

Sir, I am very unhappy. But in view of the lengthy explanation, though unsatisfactory, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 3030. Sir, I notice that under this subhead we are making a contribution to the Malaysian Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society as well as to the Royal Asiatic Society. Firstly, I wish to inquire what this Society is all about, and secondly, why do we contribute to the main body which is the Royal Asiatic Society and then contribute again to the Malaysian Branch of the Society.

Sir, the Royal Asiatic Society and the Malaysian Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society are both well established societies. The former was founded in 1823 in London for the study of History, Sociology, Institutions, Customs, Languages and Arts of Asia, the so-called oriental studies. The Malaysian Branch, which was first known as the Straits Branch, came into existence in 1878 as an affiliate to the parent body in London. The main object of these societies is to increase and diffuse knowledge concerning the territories of Malaysia, Singapore and Brunei. Both societies publish journals which are internationally known and highly regarded. Contributions are being made to the Societies to help defray the printing cost of publication because of our interest in the study and research on our region. Our National Museum and the National Library receive copies of these publications free of charge.

In view of the Minister's explanation, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the names of Messrs Ng Kah Ting and L. P. Rodrigo -

Mr Ng Kah Ting is not moving. Mr Rodrigo?

I am not moving, Sir.

(In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead GAA 2110. Sir, films or cinema shows have become a common recreation for the general public. Therefore, the quality of films will have a very great influence on the people.

Mr Teong, may I remind you that the amendment is on the "Maintenance of lands and buildings", and not on the quality or nature of films.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I think I should be able to talk about film censorship under this subhead.

The subject under this subhead is "Maintenance of lands and buildings". Are you touching on this subject? If you wanted to speak on film censorship, it should have been under Head 0, subhead GAA 1111, on page 157 of the Estimates.

(In Mandarin): Can I then speak on film censorship under subhead GAA 1111, Sir?

No. You are too late. Do you still want to speak on the subject of "Maintenance of land and buildings"?

(In Mandarin): Sir, I am not speaking. The sum of $39,878,330 for Head Q ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $12,105,000 for Head Q ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

I have, in fact, extended the "guillotine" time for the Ministry of Culture to 8.00 p.m., although the Ministry of Social Affairs was supposed to come on at 7.50 p.m. I would arrange with Mr Speaker to cut short tomorrow's teabreak by ten minutes to make up for the loss of ten minutes this afternoon. Thereupon Mr Deputy Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Main and Development Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 1975 to 31st March, 1976 and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.

So be it.

Resolved, "That Parliament do now adjourn." -[Mr Jek Yeun Thong]. Adjourned accordingly at Eight o'clock p.m.