Hansard, 1975-03-25

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That leave be given to introduce a Bill to incorporate the Titular Roman Catholic Archbishop of Singapore.

Question put, and agreed to. Resolved, That leave be given to introduce a Bill to incorporate the Titular Roman Catholic Archbishop of Singapore.

Who is prepared to introduce the Bill?

I am, Sir, I beg to introduce a Bill intituled "An Act to incorporate the Titular Roman Catholic Archbishop of Singapore." Bill read the First time.

Second Reading, what day?

On the next available sitting of Parliament, Sir.

Order read for resumed consideration in Committee of Supply [6th Allotted Day) 2.33 pm

Head U -

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head U be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 1004*. (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Teong Eng Siong). Briefly, Sir, I would like to refer the policy with regard to the manpower position in the Police Force. The Minister, in a written answer to a question I raised recently, stated that the Pc Force as a whole had a vacancy of 15%. Has the Minister any measure in mind to resolve this unhappy manpower position, which may have a critical relationship to the effectiveness the Force? I have also a suspicion that recruitment requirements may not realistic, and also that the promotion structure in the rank and file does encourage a sense of motivation. Moreover, where officers are concerned there is some feeling that sufficient credit not given to field achievement, while too much attention is paid to academic qualifications. I would urge the Minister to give some clarification regarding policy over manpower. There has also been some reference to the calling up of young men into Police Force. In this respect, I think atmosphere should be cleared, other's there will continue to be certain apprehensions. I am sure the Minister's positive reply will do much to add to morale in the Force.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, und ably better relations have been established between the Police and the people in the past year. This is because of efforts of the Ministry of Home All in many ways, for instance, the holding of the Annual Police Week and opening of police stations to enable members of the public to see for themselves how the Police work. This should go a long way towards promoting operation and understanding between the people and the Police. However, there are complaints of courtesy and haughtiness among Pc officers. Taxi drivers have complained that certain policemen in patrol cars across their taxis. Sir, this practice not good. There is a speed limit many areas and a police officer should know how to abide by the regulations He drives faster than the speed limit. in order to catch up with a taxi driver only to threaten the taxi driver with the attitude "Do you know who I am?" This is very undesirable. I hope the Minister will take note of this incorrect attitude of the Police officers and take necessary measures to rectify it. It is another matter regarding the shortage of policemen. In one of my Meet-the-People sessions, a female resident in my constituency came to see me. She told me that her husband had gone amok and wanted to beat the children. Her husband had been treated at the Woodbridge Hospital on a few occasions previously but was released only recently. She, therefore, asked me to help her by giving this matter urgent attention in order to avoid any accidents. I telephoned the Chong Pang Police Station and the officer who received the call replied, "Sorry, Sir. At the moment there is only one policeman here. We cannot help you." I asked whether he could send a patrol car to the complainant's home to help her out. The reply was that she had to wait for some time. This shows that there is an acute shortage of police personnel in that area. I remember that a few years ago therewas the Lee Soo Ann Committee Report on the salaries of the Police rank and file. I understand certain recommendations in this Report had been implemented. However, up till now certain posts in the Police Force have still not been filled. Why is this so? I would like to ask the Minister what remedial measures he intends to take. In the President's speech it was mentioned that full-time national service would be introduced for the Police Force in order to relieve the manpower shortage in the Police rank and file. I would like to ask when will this proposal be implemented. There is another question regarding the ranks in the Police Force. I understand the authorities concerned have set up a committee to look into the structure of the ranks of Inspectors and to make recommendations. However, after a considerable lapse of time, there has been no follow-up of that review. I would like to ask the Minister when will the recommendations of the committee be implemented. Why have they not been put into effect? I would like to know the reasons. Several posts have also not been filled up till now. I would like to ask why these posts are still vacant. Is it because the pay is so low that people do not like to apply for these posts?

Mr Speaker, Sir, may I be given permission to speak on this head, although I have indicated that I would not be moving the last two amendments* standing in my name? *The amendments read as follows:-

Yes.

Sir, I wholly agree with the sentiments expressed by both the Member for Katong and the Member for Sembawang. But I would also like to add what my two Friends have said with regard to the Police Force. First of all, I welcome the introduction of full-time national service in the Police Force. I am sure this will inject more numbers to the Police Force, as it is now trying its best to recruit more personnel to the various echelons of the Police service. Just now the Member for Sembawang mentioned about the activities during Police Week in which exhibitions and shows about Police work are held in many parts of Singapore. I would like to ask the Minister for Health and Home Affairs whether he has taken note of the extent of success achieved as a result of the Police Week campaigns. In this connection, I would also like to know whether an assessment of the results has been made and whether steps can be taken to give the Police Force a better image. I am not saying that the Police Force is not enjoying a good image. They do; but as is always the case with a large organisation the presence of a small number of black sheep in our Police Force can mar its good reputation. However, the House has been assured by the Hon. Minister that the black sheep will be weeded out. I also note that the President's Address and its Addendum lay stress that Singapore will be made a place in which people can live in peace. It has also been pointed out that four police stations will be built in various housing estates, for instance, in Toa Payoh. 2.45 p.m. Sir, I welcome the idea of setting up more police stations. But I would like to ask the Hon. Minister to look into this matter in greater depth. To the best of my knowledge, there are insufficient police stations in the housing estates. Therefore, when Housing Board estates are being built, there should be a coordinating committee to look into the question of providing facilities such as police stations, so that whenever members of the public have any complaints to make, say, a case of theft or robbery, they will not be too inconvenienced by having to travel great distances. In other words, a police station should be at the doorstep of the high-rise flat dwellers. I would like to stress this point because thousands of Housing Board flats are being built every year, and they will accommodate about 70% of the population by 1980. When the Housing and Development Board was first set up in 1960, its object was to provide low-cost housing for the people. The question of policing the housing estates, in all probability, had not been considered and this has resulted in the sad fact that today the Home Affairs Ministry has thought it fit and proper to build more police stations. Sir, I would like to add that building police stations is one thing, getting the right material in relation the manpower is another. As I have said, the recruitment of police personal as well as enlisting full-time national servicemen into the police force is most welcome. I would also like to make the point with regard to cases of brutality on part of the police. I think if the Minister hears of this case again, he will "Please give me details, etc." But I making a general statement, because have come across a few cases my where some of my constituents have been arrested and kept in the police lock-up for quite some time. As I know it, the police has the authority to detain any person suspected of having committed a crime for a period of not more than two weeks. I would like to s the Hon. Minister's assurance that so-called black sheep will be weeded and that law enforcement will be can out fairly, firmly and also impartially Sir, with regard to the forms punishment, I am happy to note I the police force will be very active bringing all criminals to book. I book that in the course of such duties they would press for deterrent terms punishment so that Singapore, as been stated in the Presidential Address will be a place in which the people live in peace and harmony.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I also have amendment and I would like to take this opportunity to speak.

Perhaps you better wait. The Minister would like answer the Members who have spoken.

Sir, may I deal first with the clarification asked for by the Member for Katong with regard to the problem of manpower in the police force. This point has also been raised by the Members for Sembawang and Punggol. We in the Minister of Home Affairs view this problem manpower in the police force very seriously because there is a serious shortage of manpower among junior officers, to the tune of about 15%. As at 1st March, 1975, there were 4,406 police constables and women constables against an authorised establishment of 5,107. Of course, the manpower problem is not a problem peculiar to the police force alone. The manpower problem has been created as a result of our sustained economic growth in the last decade resulting in a tight labour market in Singapore. Therefore, as far as the Ministry of Home Affairs is concerned, We looking at this problem, we feel that the logical means of overcoming this manpower shortage is to develop new work methods which will utilise the limited manpower available to the police more efficiently. Therefore, a committee to review the manpower problem in the police force was appointed in January this year. The committee is headed by an Assistant Commissioner of Police and consists of members which include one school principal, a representative from the Public Service Commission, a representative from the Ministry of Finance and, of course, a representative from the Ministry of Home Affairs. The terms of reference for this committee are: (1) to consider the requirements of the police force for junior officers in relation to the crime rate, population growth and changing political, economic and social conditions of Singapore; (2) to recommend ways in which the manpower requirements of the police force can be met having regard to the general labour shortage in Singapore; (3) to recommend measures which will alleviate the manpower problem and contribute to greater efficiency of the police force, such as rationalisation and civilianisation of certain police duties, mechanisation and computerisation, and greater use of women police officers; and (4) having regard to (1), (2), and (3) aforementioned, to examine whether present terms and conditions of service for junior officers are adequate to attract and retain officers of the right quality. This fourth term of reference will mean reviewing the effectiveness of the Lee Soo Ann Committee's recommendations. Sir, I now turn to the question of enlisting full-time national servicemen to meet the problem of manpower shortage in the police force. I say straightaway that this will only meet the shortage to some extent, and we hope the committee will find the full answer to the manpower shortage as a whole. As regards the full-time national servicemen in the police force, our view is that this will only solve part of the problem because full-time national servicemen will be doing full-time police duties for only two years. After that, they go into the reserve service. I do not want to go into details as to how they will be used because the details are now being worked out. With regard to the operational date of the full-time national servicemen scheme, it will operate as soon as possible because facilities are now being prepared in our training school to take in the first batch of full-time national servicemen in the police force. They will be given 12 weeks, or three months' training, before they are given police duties. Sir, may I now turn to the Member for Sembawang who complained about discourtesy and arrogance on the part of the police force and also the complaint of the Member for Punggol on the abuse of power and brutality? In 1974, a total of 65 complaints were received from the public against police officers for rudeness, discourtesy and abuse of power. Four of the complaints are still under investigation. Of the remaining 61 complaints, only 10 cases were substantiated. These 10 were cases of minor infringements and the officers concerned were reprimanded. Our experience has been that most of the complaints were unfounded and a number were malicious or exaggerated. But I would like to reassure hon. Members that every complaint received, whether from a Member of Parliament or from any member of the public against any members of the police force, is fully investigated and if the complaint is substantiated action is taken against the offender, whether the complaint is against discourtesy, arrogance, abuse of power or brutality. I have often repeated this and I shall repeat again that abuse of power and brutality in the police force will not be tolerated. However, in a large organisation as the Police Force - this was also stated by the Member for Punggol -there will always be a few black sheep to mar its name. 3.00 p.m. With regard to action against the black sheep, may I just give a few figures. First of all, I would like to assure the Member for Punggol that the Police Force has no hesitation in weeding out the black sheep if the offences committed warrant dismissal. In 1974, 35 officers comprising four Inspectors, one Station Inspector, four Sergeants and 26 Police Constables were dismissed from the Force for corruption and serious breaches of discipline. With regard to the suggestion by the Member for Punggol that these cases should be dealt with impartially and fairly, may I draw the attention of hon. Members that sometime last year I had the Police Force Act amended in this Chamber. The amendment to the Police Force Act enables the Commissioner of Police to refer disciplinary cases against junior officers or inspectors to the Public Service Commission. This ensures impartial investigation against police officers. Prior to that, offences committed by those ranks of officers were dealt with by the Police Force itself. With regard to police/public relationship, the Police Weeks and the campaigns that have been held, the Member for Punggol asked me what was the effect of these campaigns. May 1 say that the results were quite encouraging because the attendances in all the campaigns, Open Houses and other programmes organised by the Police Force were good. But the fostering of good police/public relations will take some time to nurture, and cannot be achieved by only one campaign. Therefore, we will continue this campaign of fostering good relations between the public and the Police Force. In the campaign which was held recently, special instructions were given to the officer-in-charge of the various Land Divisions to foster closer working relationship between him and the MP of his Division, as well as the Chairman of the Citizens' Consultative Committees. It will take some time for them to establish a close working relationship, but I am informed that in a number of constituencies some happy relationship has already been forged for the common good in the fight against crime. Again I must say that it will take some time for it to develop, but a start has already been made. The Member for Sembawang wanted to know about the vacancies of inspectors. He is worried that there are not enough inspectors. As I say, our big concern is the junior ranks. Anyway, may I just give him some figures of inspectors. In 1974, 37 Police Inspectors were recruited against a total vacancy of 69. That is by direct recruitment, but it does not mean that these posts of Inspectors should be filled by direct recruitment. Usually half of them are filled by direct recruitment because some posts must be reserved for promotion of sergeants as well.

Sir, I beg your indulgence. The Minister has not replied to my question of police stations in the Housing Board estates. This is an important point and it has been mentioned before in previous debates - the Member for Toa Payoh can bear me out that Toa Payoh at one time was known as the Chicago of Singapore. So I hope the Minister will reply on this point.

Sir, I do not think that the crime rate in Housing Board estates can be brought down just by having a police station in every housing estate. If we are to have a police station in every housing estate that would mean mobilising a lot of police manpower. This is a problem that we have given thought to very deeply. We cannot afford to pin down heavy manpower resources by building too many police stations. What we are doing now is to build Divisional Police Headquarters at strategic sites and from these Divisions we will be introducing team policing. Patrol cars will be doing a 24-hour patrol duty within that division and the patrol cars should also cover Housing and Development Board estates. It is better to have a mobile patrol moving around rather than be static in a place, because that would be tying down manpower. At the moment we are having team policing in two Police Divisions, that is Orchard Division and the Central Division. Since the introduction of team policing, figures have shown that the crime rate in these two Divisions has gone down by 30%. We now have plans to introduce team policing in the other six Police Divisions by October this year. I hope that the crime rate would go down accordingly in these other six Police Divisions.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head U be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 1105. Sir, hon. Members on this side of the House have already raised several questions in respect of the Police Force, and I would like to air my views in this regard. The Minister said just now that the Police Force will be enlisting full-time national servicemen for police duty. I endorse this move to be taken by the Government. But at the moment there are part-time national servicemen in the Police Force, that is, the Special Constabulary. I think care should be taken of these people. According to my understanding the morale of the Special Constabulary men is very low. Many highly educated part-time national servicemen have been posted to do watch-dog or jaga duties, or even office-boy duties. Naturally these people are frustrated. As a result of this frustration their morale is very low. I have also heard of more interesting episodes. One is that a Police officer told the Special Constables in his charge to issue three summonses a day after which they could go home to sleep. If there are such cases, I think we have to stop them. We should think of ways and means to remedy the situation and raise the morale of the Special Constables who are part-time national servicemen. They form a vital link, if I may say so, in the Police Force. The Minister also said that he will continue to hold Police Weeks to further promote good police/public relationship. I say that it is a good idea to continue with the Police Week. However, we should not forget that when we ask the people to cooperate with the police, we should also ask the police to cooperate with the people. We have received many complaints from members of the public, as what other MPs have also said here, that there are many complaints about the rudeness and discourtesy on the part of the police, for instance, inconveniencing the witnesses by asking them to turn up at the police station to give statements. Why cannot the police inspector go to a place convenient to the witness to take down his statement? Sir, the Gambling Suppression Branch sometimes receives information from the public that such and such a person is running a gambling den. When information of this nature is received, the Gambling Suppression Branch should take a very cautious attitude in its investigations before taking any action. In my constituency there had been some unpleasant incidents arising out of action taken by the Police on such information received. Police officers from the Gambling Suppression Branch, without checking the reliability or unreliability of the information, came all the way to my constituency to conduct raids and searches in the homes of people who had participated in community work. These residents have a very high public standing and are unlikely to be bookies or gambling den operators. Therefore, I would ask the Minister to direct the Gambling Suppression Branch to be more cautious before acting on informa tion received, because the information they receive can turn out to be unreliable or malicious. 3.15 p.m. Sir, the Minister has also told this House that on receipt of complaints against the Police for brutality, discourtesy, etc, investigation is always made and very often such complaints were found to be unsubstantiated. I wonder who are the people responsible for the investigation of such complaints. If we ask a police officer to look into a complaint against another police officer, we would not get any favourable results as the officer would tend to cover up the other officer. To ensure that such complaints are impartially investigated into, they should be conducted by independent people who are not police officers themselves. I think if this course of action is taken, we will find that many such complaints are well-founded. Lastly, Sir, I would like to remind the Minister of the shortage of police personnel in Jurong Town which is the largest industrial town in Singapore. In this industrial town there is only a very small police post. I was informed at any one time that the number of police officers on duty does not exceed three. I do not know whether it is true or not. Also there are only two police patrol cars in this police post, one of which is out of order every other day. For a big industrial town like Jurong, it is inadequate to have only such a small police post. As a result, there are so many cases of robbery and housebreaking and other crimes in Jurong. I would like to ask the Minister whether he has any plan in mind to improve the security in Jurong Town.

Mr Ho, may I say that this particular subhead relates to the Permanent Secretary. I have not heard you mentioning a word about the Permanent Secretary so far.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I think the Permanent Secretary is the head of the department responsible for the administration of the whole Ministry.

Mr Speaker, Sir, every time a complaint is made against the Police department, we can expect a stock answer, "Of course, in any organisation we have the black sheep." These are the exact words which the Minister gave me last year. We heard this answer last year and we hear it again this year. Judging by the increasing number of complaints from this side of the Chamber, I am beginning to feel that the number of black sheep has increased. If that is the case, something positive should be done about it rather than saying that it is a question of black sheep in any organisation. I do not think that is a very satisfactory answer. I strongly support the suggestion of the Member for Jurong that a more independent system of investigation should be set up. The mere fact that investigation is left to the colleagues within the Police Force, one could expect, as pointed out, a situation of kuan kuan sian hu, which means they will take care of their own interest for obvious reasons. Another answer which has been given so very often is that the Police Force is shorthanded. If the Police Force is shorthanded, something should be done very quickly. Otherwise by publicly making such statement and admitting the shortcomings of the Police Force, we are only extending an invitation to the criminals to step up their activities. The effectiveness of the Lee Soo Ann Report and what should be done to remedy the position should be looked into very quickly. This has dragged on long enough, and I would like to refer the Honourable Minister to his reply to me last year when we were debating on the same department. Most of the complaints are again heard here today. I am sure most of my colleagues agree with me that we are beginning to feel a little tired coming here and playing the same old record. It is not that we like to hear our own voice or that we are over-imaginative. It cannot be due to over-imagination that we are taking up all these complaints. There must be some foundation in the complaints to cause its num ber to increase. Why? Certainly there must be a good reason.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Jalan Kayu said that a stock answer has been given. Whatever the Member calls it, that is the answer because black sheep are always present in any organisation. If no action has been taken, then of course there is justification to complain. I have stated categorically that action against black sheep has been taken. It is not that action has not been taken. May I repeat for the information of the Member how many black sheep have been dismissed from the Police Force. It is not that I want to play the record again, but the point is that it seems the message has not been put across effectively. At the risk of being repetitious, may I again say what action has been taken against black sheep? In 1974, 35 officers comprising four Inspectors, one Station Inspector, four Sergeants and 26 Police Constables have been dismissed. Is that not action? Do we want to sack more? They should not be sacked until they have been given a fair hearing under a disciplinary board. It is not that action has not been taken. Action has been taken. On the allegation that police officers will protect their own kind, we should at least have some confidence in the majority of the Police Force personnel for their honesty and impartiality. I do not think it is fair to make a general allegation that police officers protect their own kind. May I say that justice and impartiality not only, in fact, exist in such cases but they have been seen to exist. May I repeat again that action has been taken to amend the Police Force Act in this House last year so that the Commissioner of Police can refer disciplinary cases against junior officers or inspectors to the Public Service Commission. Where cases are referred to the Public Service Commission, there will be non-Police officers on the Board of Inquiry, and if there is a cover-up I am quite sure that those who sit on the Board should be able to find out. Why should there be in the Police Force an external body to investigate these complaints? What about the other departments? There is the Complaints Bureau and they also investigate complaints against police officers. With regard to manpower shortage, we are not throwing our arms up in despair. It is a problem, and it is not that nothing has been done. As I have stated just now in answer to the Member for Katong, a Manpower Committee has been formed to look into these problems and I am just as anxious that they come up with the answers. If these answers or recommendations are accepted - of course, other Ministries are also involved - we can then implement these recommendations to solve the problem. I have said that one of the terms of reference would be to review the effectiveness of the Lee Soo Ann recommendations. Maybe it could have been done last year but as you know, it takes some time to consider the effectiveness of the Lee Soo Ann recommendations. We have asked for a review, and it is fair to say that the Lee Soo Ann recommendations were implemented only two or three years ago. I think we have not lost time. Something has been done, and I assure the Members for Jalan Kayu and Jurong that before we meet again in the next Budget debate something would have been done as far as manpower shortage is concerned. In fact, the proposal to introduce full-time national service in the Police Force also means that something is being done. This in itself is the answer that it will partly solve the problem of manpower. With regard to the allegation that the Gambling Suppression Branch takes action without first checking up, usually they do check their information. In the case mentioned it just so happened that the raid conducted did not reveal anything. I agree with the Member for Jurong that before raids are conducted they should be very careful in processing their information. But I think this is a professional matter. Therefore, the officer-in-charge should know best how reliable the information is. These officers have always been cautioned to be very careful about information received, just as information received about complaints against the Police Force have also to be cautiously investigated. Some complaints are substantiated, and some are not. Some human beings, as you know, are motivated by good motives while some are not. About police stations, something is also being done here. Most of our police stations were built before World War II. Some were built even before World War I. Besides the Queenstown Police Station, we have not had any new police station. It has been stated that four police stations will be built. I see the Member for Toa Payoh sitting there pretty satisfied, and I hope the Toa Payoh Police Station will come up soon. Tenders will be called before the end of the year. 3.30 p.m. With regard to Jurong, I agree with the Member for Jurong that the Police Force in Jurong Town is highly inadequate. At the time of planning the Police Posts it was never envisaged that Jurong would grow into a town of 80,000 or 100,000 people. Immediate action is now being taken to remedy that situation. Jurong Town is in the Rural West Police Division. The existing Rural West Divisional Headquarters stationed at Bukit Panjang is not strategically situated to cater for the needs of Jurong Town. It is, therefore, planned to build a headquarters station in Jurong Town. The Senior Architect of the Public Works Department is now making a feasibility study of building the station on a two-acre site opposite the T-junction of Corporation Road and the proposed extended arm of Boon Lay Drive. But, as an interim measure, the Police are planning to shift the operational headquarters from Bukit Panjang to Jurong Town as soon as possible. For this purpose, an application has been made to the Government's Building Committee for permission to rent part of the premises which belong to the Jurong Town Corporation.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I thank the Minister for answering my questions. However, he seems to have omitted two points. First, what measures are being taken by his department to increase the efficiency of the Police Force and raise the morale of the Special Constables because some highly qualified people in the Constabulary have been asked to do very common duties. The other point relates to Police Week. The Minister must not emphasise the need for the people to cooperate with the Police. It should be the other way round - the Police should cooperate with the people.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am sorry I have forgotten to answer these questions. With regard to the Special Constables, that situation might have occurred in the past. But attempts have now been made to make part-time duties in the Police Force as interesting as possible and to utilise their higher education, which some of them have, to advantage. For example, instead of detailing some dental surgeons, who are part-time national servicemen, to do pure Police work which the Member for Jurong referred to as watchdog duties, they have been organised to render dental service. In fact, they are giving dental service to families of the Police Force and the Special Constables. We are now trying to utilise their talents as much as possible. The difficulty is that since they are part-time national servicemen they are on duty for only three hours every ten days. Anyway, every attempt is being made to ensure that national service in the Special Constabulary is as interesting as possible. In fact, I am told that their morale has risen compared to what it was before because of the new attempts to make their service more interesting. With regard to cooperation between the Police and the public, of course, it is a two-way affair. It cannot be one-sided. As I said, the officers in charge of the various Police Divisions have been told to work closely with Members of Parliament and members of the Citizens' Consultative Committees. Maybe there has been such cooperation in some Police Divisions but not in others. But as we carry on with our campaigns to promote Police/public relationship, a good working relationship will be fostered in all the Police Divisions. It cannot be just a one-sided affair. It has to depend on both sides.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I thank the Minister for his answers. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head U be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BAA 1105*. (*The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs P. Govindaswamy, Lee Yiok Seng, Phey Yew Kok and J. F. COnceicao). Mr Speaker, Sir, I fully support the new Government's policy to use national servicemen in the Singapore Police Force. The men who combat crime with increasing complexity and at great risk to themselves deserve our full support and praise. However, I would like to join my fellow colleagues here to examine the real reasons for the acute shortage of manpower in the rank and file of the Police Force and to establish what remedial measures can be taken so that we will attract the right type of men for the very important task of maintaining law and order in our Republic. Perhaps the need to establish a Manpower Committee so soon after the Lee Soo Ann Report may reflect the fact that the Minister is not satisfied with the terms and conditions given in the Lee Soo Ann Report. However, I hope that this new Manpower Committee will do much better. Under this sub-head I would like to comment on the Ministry's traffic policy. It is accepted that traffic control by both the Area's Divisional Police and the Traffic Police Division is essential to reduce accident rate and to prevent traffic congestion. I am sure everyone agrees that severe penalties must be meted out to people who persistently commit tra- ffic offences and violations. According to the latest Police Department Annual Report, 1973, the revenue collected by the Force for the years 1972 and 1973 for compounding traffic offences were $2,481,215 and $2,972,891 respectively. It would, therefore, appear that the Traffic Police Division was set up more as a revenue-earning section of the Police Force where the silent majority are those who are penalised. Last month a member of this silent majority dutifully pleaded guilty to a charge of beating a red light. It was his first offence. Excepting the Traffic Court, no opportunity for any explanation was given or any offer of composition made by the Traffic Police. Like the majority who were unlucky to be summoned to court, he had the impression that there was little use in arguing against the words of the single policeman who booked him as one would only end up paying a heavier fine. Hence, he pleaded guilty. Imagine his great surprise when the Magistrate fined him $600. He had only $200 in his pocket. The Police refused to let him go home to get the rest of the money. Finally, he pleaded to be allowed to use the only available telephone, that is, a public telephone. He called up his office colleagues and they managed to raise the rest of the money required. This was personally delivered to him. What would have happened if the public telephone was out of order? Perhaps he would have to wait until one kind police officer dared to exercise his discretion and allow him to go home to collect the rest of the money, having retained his identity card. In this particular instance, his identity card was retained and yet nobody was sympathetic towards his predicament. He was simply treated like a criminal! Incidentally, on 23rd February I was told that in the Nanyang Siang Pau, it was reported that a man was fined only $250 or one month's jail for molesting a girl in a public bus. Yet, for a first offender for beating a red light the penalty is $600 or two months' jail. Is it Government's policy to raise revenue from the Traffic Police or other traffic control authority, such as the ROV irrespective of whether the public is going to suffer from any minor, and sometimes through ignorance, or unintentional infringement of the law? The interpretation of the law according to the letter and the complete unwillingness to exercise any discretion is the surest way of generating discontent among the public against the Police and the Government. Many people feel that the mobile and traffic police appear to have a quota of arrests to fulfil. In the same 1973 Police Department Annual Report, it was also reported that for the years 1972 and 1973, the number of reports of traffic offences were 121,648 and 163,634 cases respectively. It is little wonder that as the Traffic Police fines increase in size the number of arrests or traffic offences committed by the public appears to increase proportionately. I would like the Minister concerned to make a statement whether the Traffic Police has, in fact, a quota of arrests to fulfil either for each day or each month for the benefit of this House.

The answer is no.

In fact, I was told that the Mobile Squads were each given a quota of six arrests a day. It is also a well-known fact that Traffic Police (both from the Traffic and various Divisions) hide behind trees, pillars and at corners to pounce on motorists who may have missed, for example, the "no turning" road signs during certain selected hours. Many Members in this House will agree that some of these signs cannot be read until one comes near and stop in front of them. For a motorist who is unfamiliar with a road or area, it is sometimes inevitable that turning the corner during the restricted hours will happen. Some of the policemen forget that their primary duty is to assist the public and not to simply arrest or book them. They should, therefore, stand in front of the signs to guide the traffic rather than hide somewhere so as to be able to catch motorists for committing any simple offences. All the strenuous efforts to project the good image of the Police Force as a friend of the public such as the Police Week and so on, are nullified by these actions of the Traffic Police. The Police who want public cooperation on the one hand seem to be practising public persecution of the silent majority, on the other. We fully support the Police in their job to maintain law and order, but I would like to see positive action taken by the Ministry to minimise, if not to eliminate, punishment by the Traffic Police of the silent majority simply because they are more manageable victims to handle than those who commit serious crimes. 3.45 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, my colleagues have raised so many points that most probably I will have to repeat what they have said.

Mr Govindaswamy, must you repeat what other Members have said?

Sir, I will try to bring up those points which they have not covered. There are many police stations in Singapore which are very old as they were built a long time ago, and they have not been renovated. In fact, the Central Police Station building is an ancient building. Since there is a trend to modernise the Police Force, why not start building a new Central Police Station? A new, central, modern, and up-to-date police station will not only create a better image but it will also provide better working conditions for the officers. The introduction of full-time national service for the Police Force is an excellent idea as it will meet the manpower shortage to some extent. May I ask how this is going to be implemented? Sir, I would also like to ask whether the Police Force is manned properly? In the last one week, more than a million dollars worth of goods were stolen in a few robberies. Something is wrong somewhere. Obviously, the criminals know that the Police is understaffed and, therefore, they can get away with crime. Their attitude seems to be that if they get caught it is just bad luck. But their chances of getting away are good. Probably the Police Force is very badly understaffed. It is no use increasing the punishment for the criminals because I believe the robberies will increase. We must try to reform the robbers. Sir, what is happening to the mobile squad of our Traffic Police? My colleague has already spoken on this subject. A few national servicemen have been recruited to this section. They were given a few ancient vehicles to go around on patrol, which broke down so often. They could not do their job properly. Is there any plan by the Police Department to buy more motor cycles so that more traffic policemen will be available when needed at all times of the day? Sometimes in congested areas we cannot see any traffic constables. They have all disappeared. Nowadays, the only time policemen and women are seen is often during peak-hour periods or when there is a road safety campaign. That is the time they come out in full force. Outside those hours they are very elusive. They are never seen on the road. The traffic lights along the stretch of road from Orchard Road right up to Collyer Quay are supposed to be synchronised. May I ask how many roads have traffic lights synchronised in such a way that they ensure a smooth flow of traffic? Quite often motorists have to stop at every traffic light, because they are not synchronised and thereby traffic jams occur, or the traffic is unable to flow easily and smoothly. Furthermore, to make matters worse the duration of the amber light of many traffic lights is so short that many motorists are caught unawares. In certain cases accidents have resulted simply because the amber light went off so fast that the red light seems to be instantly on. And the green light for the other direction is lighted at the same time. I feel that a few seconds' duration should be given for all the red lights to stay on before changing into green light for the other direction of traffic; and not an immediate change.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I still want to stress the point that we should pay attention to the rising crime rate in Housing Board estates. Just now the Minister in his answer mentioned several points to the effect that the crime rate in the HDB estates has decreased. But I have found out that it is because certain crimes committed in these areas were not reported to the Police. That accounts for the decrease. Perhaps it is due to the people's disappointment with the service they get from the Police that they do not want to report any crimes. Crimes in HDB estates are usually robbery, house-breaking, and molest. There are people who regard such crimes as minor and so the police need not bother paying attention to them. I do not agree with such people. We should realise that more than half of our population live in HDB flats. They are constantly troubled with crimes such as I have mentioned, and this puts them in a dilemma. Sir, I think the Police should give top priority to combating such crimes. There are so many such incidents that the HDB flat dwellers themselves are unable to prevent them that they need the help of the police. Usually these crimes are committed in a certain pattern. If a flat is empty, the criminal would break open the door and steal the property. Robbery or molest is usually committed in the lift or in some secluded corner at a convenient time. These criminals usually find that HDB estates are convenient places for them to commit their crimes. Perhaps it is because of many people milling about that it is difficult to detect them. Once they are missed in the crowd, they could easily make their escape. The Police should be aware of this and should be able to think out a good method to deal with such crimes. I cannot understand why, in spite of the increase and frequency of such crimes, the Police are still not able up to now to take any effective measures to check such crimes. I feel that the main reason why the Police Department is not able to deal with these crimes effectively is that they have neglected the seriousness of such crimes because they think that robbery, house-breaking, and theft are all minor crimes which do not deserve their attention. So they do not plan out an effective way to deal with such crimes. Another reason is that the police do not well understand the conditions in the HDB estates and therefore they cannot fully play their role. They are not able to carry out their duties effectively, thus leading to higher incidents of crime everyday, even in the day time. I think the criminals know the conditions in the HDB areas better than the Police. They also know very well the beat duties of the policemen, and so they pick a suitable time and place in order to get off easily. In the circumstances, the police could only resort to such measures as increasing the number of patrol cars and more frequent beats, or put more policemen on beat patrol in the housing estates. This is also what the Minister suggested in his replies. Using only this method, I think, is a bit too mundane. It is a sort of routine. It will not enable the Police to know what goes on inside the buildings. Moreover, it will give the criminals a good opportunity to pick out suitable times and places to commit crime. For instance, during the recent exercise of community security service, the hours were from 7 pm, to 11 p.m, when the participants had to report to the police station at these times. So if one were to report at a police station, it would take some time. After taking away the time for the trips to and fro, only about two hours would be left. What kind of help can the people get out of such patrolling? The criminals can also calculate their time. They can commit crimes, before the patrolmen turn up or after they have left. So if the Police cannot quickly think out a better method to deal with the crimes in HDB estates but only talk about crime and security problems in the housing estates, it is more propaganda and is not going to help the people. 4.00 p.m. To me this is a very important question because I am not willing to see more than half of our population who are staying in Housing Board estates facing this security hazard. So I would like to suggest to the Minister, firstly, to set up in the Police Force a section of special personnel to deal with the prevention of crimes in Housing Board estates by taking charge of matters such as planning effective action to ensure a presence of security. Secondly, to set up Police sub-depots in HDB estates. I do not mean ordinary police stations but sub-depots. I mean that the Police could rent a one-room unit from the HDB and station some policemen there to provide a 24-hour service. I believe this can be very effective and economical. It would be cheaper than to get patrol cars to go around. In this way the residents will be able to see the policemen every day and, when necessary, they can report to the policeman on duty of any crime. Moreover, it will give the Police an opportunity to cooperate with and actually serve the people.

Mr Lee, your 10 minutes are up. Mr Phey is not here. Mr Conceicao?

I am not speaking, Sir.

Sir, as my memory is fresh, I would first reply to the Member for Bukit Panjang about policing the Housing and Development Board estates. He seems to give the impression that he is quite an expert on the crime situation in the Housing Board estates. He is quite vehement about setting up crime detection and prevention posts in Housing Board estates. May I remind him that I am as much concerned with crime in the Housing Board estates as he is. I may remind him that I am the Member for MacPherson, a constituency which consists wholly of Housing Board flats. Perhaps the Member for Bukit Panjang is suggesting this to prepare for the Housing Board flats that are going up in Woodlands. As far as the proposal to establish a police post in every Housing Board estate to prevent crime is concerned, I have stated earlier that it is not a feasible proposition. Without the support of the Headquarters Division, such police posts cannot respond effectively. They can only respond to reports of petty crimes within their immediate vicinity. This is an uneconomic use of manpower. Therefore, the answer is mobile patrol by policemen, who will provide a quicker and more effective response to crime reports. The Police will also be able to deploy its limited manpower over a wider area by increased mobility, that is to say, to adopt team policing. May I explain to the Member what is meant by team policing? Team policing is not just going into a patrol car and take a drive round. That is not the case. Team policing entails a deployment of a four-man patrol team utilising a saloon car equipped with a portable two-way radio for communication with each team member and their headquarters station. The team provides a 24-hour coverage of crime-prone and specially selected areas, which are divided into sectors determined by geographical location, crime rate, population density and security sensitivity. Members of the team also perform foot patrols. They do not only sit in cars. They are also equipped with walkie-talkies in order to achieve maximum coverage and to develop close rapport with the public. When they need to act as a team, they can easily assemble together because of the walkie-talkie communication with each other. To prove that it is an effective method of crime prevention, it has been tested in "A" and "E" Divisions. The results confirmed that it is a better system. It has shown that the rate of preventable crimes, such as robberies and burglaries, has decreased by approximately 30% in both Divisions. Therefore, we shall implement team policing in the remaining six Divisions by October 1975. The Member said that we do not regard house-breaking and robberies in Housing Board estates with any seriousness. That is not true. We do. In fact, in addition to the proposed team policing we have already instituted vertical policing of the Housing Board estates. In other words, the policemen do not only police round the block but they also go up and down the staircase and the lift as well. To have a Police presence, priority for Housing Board flats is given to Police officers, but not every Police officer will be staying in the same block of flats. That is no good. The scheme i5 to slot, say, two Police officers in one block of fiats, so that there is some form of a Police presence in every block of flats. That is being done now. The Member also said that routine patrolling is not good enough for crime prevention because the criminals are intelligent enough to know when the Police is coming and therefore could avoid them. Surely the Member can credit the Police with some intelligence and commonsense not to have too routine a policing. In other words, everyday they deploy their patrolling at different intervals, i.e, not necessarily at the same time every day. The point about CSF on policing duty between the hours of 7 p.m, and 11 p.m, every night- that cannot be helped because they are also working in the day and are only free during these hours. We have also organised some Vigilante Corps members who work on night shifts to patrol during the day time as well. Let me turn to the Member for Anson. I agree with him that almost all the police stations are old and due for renovation. I have said that all the police stations, except Queenstown Police Station, were built before the Second World War. As far as the Central Police Station is concerned, it is due for demolition under urban renewal. II is planned to house the Central Police Station at the present Police Headquarters building at Pearl's Hill, when the proposed Ministry of Home Affairs and Police Complex at Mount Pleasant is developed. I have also mentioned that four divisional police stations will be built in the course of the fiscal year. One is at Toa Payoh. The second station is the Orchard Road Police Station at Napier Road near the Gleneagles Hospital. The third is the Paya Lebar Police Station at Upper Paya Lebar Road junction, and the fourth is the Jurong Town Police Station. About the shortage of Police manpower, may I say this. The shortage of Police manpower is experienced not only in Singapore but also in other Police Forces the world over. However, this is not something which criminals can find comfort in, as suggested by some Members, because the Police make up this shortfall by greater utilisation of national servicemen, like the CSF and so on, more civilianisation and the use of policewomen to relieve male junior officers for crime detection and prevention work. More mechanisation has also been adopted with team policing. As far as investigation and detection is concerned, we have also reorganised the Criminal Investigation Department. We have built up a Criminal Intelligence Unit and we are going to build up a Scene of Crime Unit, and this is expected to increase the effectiveness of the Police Force further. So far, in spite of what we read in the newspapers, the rate of crime detection is quite high. As far as full-time national servicemen are concerned, the details are being worked out and they will be announced in due course. With regard to the mobile squad, as far as its strength is concerned, it is not as bad as the Police Force as a whole. But its shortage will be looked into by he Manpower Committee, as I have said before. One of the primary functions of the mobile squad is to control and regulate traffic. The volume of traffic is heaviest during peak hours. Therefore, more mobile squad personnel are utilised during these periods than off-peak hours. The Member for Anson mentioned about using national servicemen to do mobile patrol squad duty. We have a small mobile patrolmen squad comprising 37 national servicemen. They perform eight hours of duty every 19 days on motorcycles provided by the Special Constabulary. With regard to traffic lights, they are synchronised to facilitate the flow of traffic. To date, 26 roads have such a synchronised system. As far as the amber light is concerned, the amber-phase of a traffic light system is timed according to the intensity of the vehicular traffic going through the road intersections. Normally the duration is three seconds. The Member for Anson gave an example. He wants all lights to be green at the same time so that there is a smooth flow of traffic. I agree with him on this point, but at the same time if all lights are green there must be a time when all lights are red. You cannot have one without having the other also. 4.15 p.m. The point made by the Member for River Valley is that the Traffic Police Division is, he fears, a revenue-collecting organisation. I can assure him that it is not a revenue-collecting organisation. Its function is to enforce traffic laws so that accidents will be reduced to the minimum. Traffic Police personnel are constantly reminded to enforce traffic laws in accordance with the spirit rather than the letter of the law. In fact, they have been told that their work is assessed on the nature of the cases reported and not on the quantity. Let me state this quite categorically. It is a misconception to say that the Traffic Police have been told to come back with so many summonses a day. This is not true. It is the quality of the cases they detect rather than the quantity. Let me be very categorical about this. That is why the Traffic Police have adopted what they term as the Selective Enforcement Policy. The rationale behind this policy is that it is not possible to enforce the law in every single traffic violation, and since there is a relationship between hazardous traffic violations and traffic accidents, the Traffic Police concentrate their enforcement efforts on serious traffic offences which contribute to traffic accidents. This Selective Enforcement Policy is now paying dividends. The number of traffic accident fatalities dropped from 390 in 1972 to 380 in 1973. In 1974, 288 persons were killed in traffic accidents, representing a reduction of 24.2%. May I repeat that it is not true that the Traffic Police have a quota of summonses to issue per day in order to boost the revenue of the Government. The assessment of the performance of the police officer is based on the nature of the cases reported and not on the quantity. We also realise that to many black sheep motorists, particularly those who can afford to pay fines, the ultimate answer is not to impose fines on them again and again. That is why we have introduced the Points Demerit System in which an accumulation of 12 points for serious traffic violations will cause the offender's licence to be suspended. It is quite clear that we introduce this system not with the object of collecting more money, but because we could then justify a suspension of licence. With regard to the case which the Member brought up about the Police not allowing a traffic offender to go home to collect money for a fine, I am surprised he has not brought this to my attention earlier because this case needs some investigation. I do not know why this has not been done. As far as the sentence is concerned - a fine of $600 as compared to a lighter sentence for a case of molesting, that is a matter which is not within the province of the Ministry of Home Affairs. That is left to the assessment of the magistrate. As you know, it is his judgment alone which determines the degree of the sentence. If the person who is sentenced is not happy, he can appeal. This is what is known as an independent judiciary. That has got nothing to do with the Traffic Police. But as far as the Traffic Police is concerned, in cases where there is a blatant violation of traffic laws which would invariably lead to an accident if not prevented, they would want heavier and heavier sentences to be imposed.

Sir, I do concede the point that the amount of fine imposed for a traffic offence is at the discretion of the magistrate. But what I am trying to bring out is the public opinion towards the control of traffic in Singapore. Just now I indicated the increased revenue from traffic offences in 1972-73. 1 said that in 1972 the revenue was almost $2.5 million and in 1973 it was almost $3 million. One of my colleagues here has given me figures which show that the estimated revenue from traffic fines for 1974 was $3.3 million and for 1975 the estimated revenue is $4 million. So there is this fear among the public of this intention. I am just reflecting this public opinion which I think is valid. With regard to traffic fines, I purposely lay stress that this was the first offence, and I do concede that if there is a blatant act to beat the traffic light then nobody would quibble about it. But here is a case of one policeman's word against that of a member of the public. I would like to ask the Minister, being a lawyer himself, is it not common Jaw that a person is innocent until he is proved guilty? But in this case the policeman seems to exercise the reverse, which means that he presumes that the offender is guilty until he is proved innocent. What I am saying is that no oppor tunity was given to this person to prove his innocence, it is like saying, "When the light turned amber, I was very near the stop-line. What do you want me to do? Step on the emergency brake or drive across?" The circumstances are such that proper investigation should be done. The reason why I did not bring this matter up earlier was because] was informed of it only a few weeks ago although the incident occurred on 2nd January.

Sir, I am quite surprised that the person concerned pleaded guilty. If he is not guilty, he should not have pleaded guilty. The Traffic Police cannot force him to plead guilty, and if he feels that the fine of S600 is too heavy because this is his first offence he can always appeal. The sentence is at the discretion of the magistrate. The other point is about revenue. The Annual Report for 1973 just happened to include it. I have made it quite clear that it is no criterion to effectiveness. The criterion is: how many accidents have been averted? How many deaths have been avoided? How many cases of injury resulting from road accidents have been reduced? That is the criterion and I state this quite categorically.

Sir, I concede all the points the Minister has said. Can the Minister assure the House that he will give specific instructions to all Traffic Control Divisions and the Traffic Police that they will henceforth stand in front of the traffic sign or at the road junction and not hide behind trees in order to catch the offenders, as we have seen a few days ago?

Mr Speaker, Sir, that is another point, it is actually debatable whether the Traffic policemen should stand in front of the traffic sign or behind it. As I said, the Points Demerit System is such that we must operate it in such a way as to remove those hazardous drivers who are a danger and a menace to other road users. Whether the policemen carry out their duty in front or behind trees is a matter for the professionals to decide. I will not direct them on this. The policy is that they should not summon just for the sake of summoning. They should try to put all their efforts in accordance with the Selective Enforcement Policy. In other words, to remove hazardous and dangerous drivers from the road, and as far as minor traffic infringements are concerned, they should exercise their discretion.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in the normal course of events, an offender is offered composition for a first minor traffic offence. But in the case mentioned by the Member for River Valley, why is it that the motorist who committed a minor offence for the first time was not offered a composition?

Sir, that is equally puzzling to me because there may be other reasons. If the details of the case are given to me, it will be investigated.

Sir, I shall be submitting the case to the Minister, and on that note I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

I think it will be a good idea to take the Suspension now. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

I suspend the Sitting now and will take the Chair again at 5.00 p.m. Sitting accordingly suspended at 4.27 p.m. until 5.00 p.m. Sitting resumed at 5.00 p.m.

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

Head U (cont.) - The following amendment stood in the names of Messrs J. F. Conceicao and Yeo Toon Chia -

Mr Conceicao is not moving his amendment, and Mr Yeo Toon Chia is not here. Mr Ho See Beng.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head U be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead DAA 1l09*. (*The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs P. Govindaswamy and Ong Teng Cheong). Sir, may I have your permission to range over my next amendment+ on subhead GAA 1111, as the topic I want to raise under these subheads is interrelated? +The amendment reads as follows:-

All right.

Sir, I would like to ask the Minister for Health and Home Affairs whether he has any policy governing residents of Singapore who are without identity cards. Will he consider issuing at least blue identity cards to such people if he is satisfied that they are former residents of Singapore? Some of these people have been employed abroad at one time and were holders of the old Singapore paper identity cards. But now upon returning to Singapore they found that the old Singapore paper identity card has been changed to the present laminated card. So they applied to the Commissioner of National Registration for new identity cards but were told to apply to the Immigration Department for permanent stay before applying for the new identity cards. At the office of the Controller of Immigration they were told to obtain an identity card first before applying for permanent stay. Thus they were pushed from pillar to post due to the lack of decision of these two departments. These people are in a dilemma as no one will employ them as they have no identity cards. Moreover, employers are not able to pay the Central Provident Fund contributions for those who do not have identity cards. In view of the plight of these people without identity cards, I wonder whether the Minister concerned could do something to alleviate their hardship.

Mr Speaker, Sir, Singapore happens to be at the junction of international traffic, so much so that even illegal immigrants think that Singapore is a haven for them. Having come here illegally, and finally, finding themselves financially destitute, they end up by committing crimes. May I ask what active measures are being taken to prevent entry of illegal immigrants into Singapore? A few may be caught, but I am sure that many got away scot-free. I will not be surprised if I am told that many of the robberies, thefts, etc, were committed by these illegal immigrants out of desperation. What steps are being taken to tighten up our security measures to prevent entry of these illegal immigrants? Sir, the Immigration Office at Empress Place seems to be perpetually congested. There seems to be no order. People do not queue up and there is confusion. It is time this department was reorganised so that there will be a proper system in dealing with members of the public. I have received complaints that some of the officials who deal with members of the public do not seem to understand the policy governing the issue of passports. To quote an instance, there was a boy who was born in Singapore. His parents are non-citizens. He is studying in a school in Singapore. Recently, the boy's parents wanted to take him abroad to see his aged grandparents. When his parents applied for an international passport for this boy, the Immigration Official told them that the application for the international passport was rejected. The reason is that his parents are non-citizens and, therefore, he cannot automatically become a citizen. They were advised by the official that they should obtain a certificate of status for the boy, which would take some time for it to be granted. In the meantime, the parents went back home disappointed and explained the matter to the boy's uncle. On the strength of the boy's restricted passport which was given earlier the uncle went to see the Assistant Controller of Immigration to explain the case. The Assistant Controller, on seeing the restricted passport that the boy is a citizen by birth, directed his officer to approve the issue of an international passport. However, the official told the boy's uncle that the original application form was missing and requested him to fill up a fresh application and to collect the passport on a certain day. On the day in question when he went to collect the passport, the official was not there. But there was another person dealing with the case. Again the same problem arose, and this disgusted gentleman had to refer the matter to the Assistant Controller. Finally the passport was approved and given to him. Sir, I want to know why should all these unnecessary problems exist at this counter. Such inconsiderate and ignorant behaviour on the part of the officer at the counter should not be tolerated because many tourists and visitors go to this department. It would give a very poor image of Singapore and their opinion would be that the department is not functioning properly.

I am not speaking, Sir.

Mr Speaker, Sir, to take the question of the Member for Bras Basah first. The position is that the old Singapore paper identity cards have ceased to be valid documents after 31st January, 1967, vide Government Gazette Notification No. 145 dated 20th January, 1967. In view of this, persons who are away and still hold old Singapore identity cards are not automatically eligible for Singapore laminated identity cards. If they wish to return to Singapore, they must first apply to the Immigration Department for the necessary permits to return. If their applications are approved, they may then apply for new laminated identity cards after their return to Singapore. This is necessary because many people who have been residing in a foreign country for a long time may have lost their permanent resident status. With regard to illegal immigrants, brought up by the Member for Anson, the majority of the illegal immigrants are brought into Singapore by traffickers, some of whom are organised into syndicates. Concerted action continues to be taken by the Police and the Immigration Department on illegal immigrants. The Marine Police who patrol the territorial waters of Singapore are on the lookout for small vessels which sneak in with illegal immigrants on board. Police and Immigration Officers carry out surprise checks at work sites. They also conduct raids based on information gathered by the Immigration Department. This has resulted in numerous arrests of illegal immigrants. In 1972, 1973 and 1974, the number of illegal immigrants arrested was 1,547; 2,223 and 1,365 respectively. On arrest these illegal immigrants were prosecuted and imprisoned, and then repatriated. The traffickers were dealt with severely. Under the amendment to the law introduced last year, penalties for traffickers have been enhanced. Illegal immigrants and their harbourers or employers are liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or to a fine of $6,000 or to both such imprisonment and fine. Traffickers are punished with imprisonment of two to five years and are also liable to fine of up to $10,000 and to caning. In addition, their boats and equipment are also confiscated. Recently one trafficker was sentenced to 64 years' imprisonment and 12 strokes of the rotan, and another trafficker four years' imprisonment and eight strokes of the rotan. Keeping the illegal immigrants out of Singapore is not easy because of the close proximity of neighbouring countries and the accessibility of our coastline. The Immigration Department has since last year set up an Intelligence Unit to seek out traffickers. As a result it has achieved considerable success in tracking down a number of traffickers who are now in gaol serving heavy sentences. With regard to congestion at Empress Place office of the Immigration Department, in early 1974 the Immigration Department secured an extra area of 11,330 sq, ft, at the headquarters, Empress Place. This extension of office and waiting space has helped to ease the congestion. Railings have been constructed at crowded sections of the counters to induce the public to queue up. This has been done, for instance, at the Passport counter where numerous applications are received daily. In addition to the railings, more cushioned benches have been placed for members of the public who have to wait. The issue of the various immigration documents is also done in an orderly fashion. The Member for Anson related the story of a boy who went through considerable difficulty before he was issued with an international passport. I have been informed by my officers of a case, the threads of which are very similar and it could well be the same case. The boy was born in Singapore on 7th February, 1963. His application for a passport was submitted by his father on 11th November, 1974 at the Immigration counter. Although his father had declared on the application form that the boy had no other passport, it was discovered later that the child's name was included in his father's foreign passport and that both father and son had entered Singapore on a visit pass. Since the boy was a Singapore citizen he had really no reason to travel on a foreign passport, but having entered Singapore on a foreign passport, his application for a Singapore international passport was therefore referred to a senior officer. The senior officer told the father that it was necessary for the boy to regularise his stay in Singapore by applying for a certificate of status before the issue of a Singapore international passport could be considered. 5.15 p.m. On 18th November, 1974, father and son called at the Immigration Department and produced the boy's Singapore restricted passport. This case was then referred to the Assistant Controller of Immigration who was in charge of the Passport Section. He found that the boy's case had already been regularised by the fact that the boy had a Singapore restricted passport and that his name had, since the previous interview, been deleted from his father's foreign passport. He then decided that the boy could be issued with a Singapore international passport. As the father wanted the passport urgently, the Assistant Controller advised him to submit a fresh application immediately as the previous application had to be withdrawn. The passport was issued to the boy on an urgent basis the next day. The moral of this story, Mr Speaker, Sir, is that you may get into unnecessary difficulties if you want the best of both worlds, as was the case with the boy's father. The Member for Anson's narration of the story is the father's version. That is only one side of the story. Unfortunately, the narration of the story puts the Immigration Department in a bad light.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I would like to ask the Minister to clarify the matter of replacement of old identity cards with new laminated ones. Just now he told the House that the old identity card was invalidated after 31st January. 1967. I would like to ask him this. TI local people who had lived abroad and were not aware of this regulation were to return after that date, would the Ministry concerned consider their cases sympathetically?

Sir, I have already answered the question. A returned resident can apply for a new identity card and the application will then be considered on its own merits.

Sir, I said just now that the person concerned has applied for a new identity card. When he went to the Commissioner for Registration he was told to go and see the Controller of Immigration. The Con- troller of Immigration told him that he must go and see the Commissioner for Registration. There is no way of knowing who should move first. Nobody knows.

Sir, there should not be a case of one officer pushing the matter to another. If the procedure is properly complied, a decision would have been made either to grant or riot to grant. But I do not know what happened. If there is a case, perhaps the Member can write to me and I will consider it.

Sir, in view of the answer, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head U be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead EAA 1111. Sir, over the past year the Vigilante Corps has shown good performance. Since the organisation of the Community Security Force, the VC has made an even better contribution to the community. The most important function of the VC is to perform beat patrols in HDB estates, kampung areas, and other areas that need such patrols. This greatly contributes to the maintenance of security and the suppression of crime. Therefore, this performance receives the praise of all the people. Sir, the Vigilante Corps has a glorious history behind it. Members of the Corps have sacrificed much time and effort in the task of maintaining security in the community and the maintenance of law and order. On the introduction of national service the VC membership increased with the addition of volunteers so that the number of regular VC personnel could be reduced. However, there are still thousands of volunteer VC members on patrol beats maintaining security and law and order in the community. They have contributed their time and effort in the service of our country. All this effort is worth our praise. However, I would like to raise the matter of allowances paid to VC members. According to the present scheme, the allowance is too little. A VC member gets 60 cents for an hour's service and a leader 85 cents per hour. This is very insignificant. Everything has in-creased in price. In the past, the bus fare was 5 cents to 20 cents per trip, but now it is at least 20 cents. Laundry was 20 cents to 50 cents per piece, but now it is at least 50 cents. When a member turns up for duty, he spends on petrol or bus fares. If he takes snacks or drinks it comes up to $3 or $4 per night. This is why his allowance is not enough. If a VC member could work more hours or take up other jobs, he would be given more allowance. So I hope the Ministry concerned can increase the allowance to VC members in order to raise their morale.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I have been asked by my Minister to reply. Volunteers in the VC draw the same rate of training and duty allowance as that paid to national servicemen. The following hourly rates are paid to VC members according to rank: Rank Rate per hour Vigilante and Assistant 60 cts Section Leader Section Leader 65 cts Assistant Group Leader, 70 cts Group Leader, Senior Group Leader Assistant Unit Leader and above 80 cts Members of the Corps, including national servicemen and volunteers who have been selected for the CSF policing service, are required to assemble at and then fan out from their respective policing posts for operations. These VC posts are situated in the various operational areas well within easy reach by bus. This enables all VC members, including group and section leaders, to commute between their residence and their respective VC posts or between different posts by bus. Besides, in order to minimise transport expenses and inconvenience, every VC member is as far as possible posted to the VC post nearest his residence. Members of the Corps who travel by bus are entitled to concessionary rates of bus fare. Those who prefer to use their own cars during operations are doing so on their own accord.

(In Mandarin): Sir, the Parliamentary Secretary has only given us an account of the rates of allowances. He has not replied to my question as to whether the allowances will be increased.

Sir, the answer is no.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head U be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead HAA 1111*. (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy.). Sir, the problem of citizenship is still one that bedevils many people in Singapore. In my constituency during my Meet-the-People sessions every week, I receive a lot of complaints from various people about the delay in dealing with such applications over the past few years. Many of them have waited for many a year and some of them have repeatedly made applications without success. They are very worried and concerned. Sir, I have analysed their circumstances, their family backgrounds, their income, their occupations and the number of people in their families. From what I have gathered, these applicants generally have an income of at least $400 per month. Their occupations range from workers and technicians in the shipbuilding industry to hawkers, taxi drivers and other occupations. Most of the other members in their families are local citizens, or they have children born in Singapore and who are citizens of Singapore. There may be exceptional cases where one or two members of the family are non-citizens. Many of them pay income tax and they contribute a great deal towards our country. Therefore, we should give sympathetic consideration to citizenship applications from such people so that they will be able to make greater contributions to Singapore. Sir, the Minister has said repeatedly in this House that those who contribute to our country in one way or other will be given consideration for citizenship. I endorse this view, it is, therefore, my hope that the Minister will consider granting citizenship to those who contribute to the arts in Singapore. I would like to give one example of this case for the careful consideration of the Minister. In this particular case, the applicant is an expert in ballet dancing. He is a permanent resident of Singapore. He went overseas after completing his secondary education. He obtained a diploma from a school in London and is a member of the London Institute of Choreography. He has also participated in various international performances and returned to Singapore in 1972 in the hope of contributing what he has learnt. 5.30 p.m. During his stay in Singapore for three years, he participated in charitable performances in the National Theatre and conducted ballet classes in the various community centres to develop talents. In considering the granting of citizenship to people who make an economic contribution to Singapore, we must also consider those who make artistic or cultural contributions to Singapore. It is only in this way that talents in the cultural field will be able to develop in Singapore. This particular artiste I mentioned has applied for citizenship two years ago but his application is still under consideration. I would therefore ask the Minister to look into this matter. There are also cases of old people who have applied for citizenship. They have grown-up children who are quite successful in their business. One such applicant has a son who is a medical specialist working in the General Hospital. This applicant has waited for two years but the only reply he received was that his application has been turned down. Surely there is no harm in granting citizenship to this applicant because all his children are now independent and in a position to support and maintain him. So granting citizenship to him will not add to the economic burden of our State. I would, therefore, ask the Minister to give special consideration to cases of this nature.

Mr Speaker, Sir, after the separation of Singapore from Malaysia, a large number of people became stateless through no fault of their own. These people are permanent residents of Singapore. They have no country to go to. They have lived all their lives in Singapore, and the only thing that is missing is documentary proof. Because of this, they are not granted citizenship. They are not considered citizens, and therefore they lose all the privileges accorded to citizens. During the national registration in 1967, some of these people could not produce proper documents to support their case and consequently they were given blue identity cards, which automatically means that they are non-citizens. What is the plight of these people? To date many of them still find difficulty as they are not granted citizenship of their country. Sir, there is a case where every member of the family is a citizen of Singapore, except for one poor member whose documentary proof was mislaid by his parents during the war. Thus he became a non-citizen. He had applied for citizenship quite sometime ago but he has not received any reply to his application. Can the Minister explain what is the present stand in the granting of citizenship for cases of this nature? There are also people who have the necessary requirements and are paying income tax but are not considered for citizenship. May I ask why they are not considered for citizenship?

Sir, may I first reply to the Member for Sembawang? The Government must be strict and careful in granting citizenship. Citizenship is something which must be regarded with great value. However, the policy on citizenship is reviewed regularly. All applications are attended to without delay, but they must take their turn in the queue. It is true that some applications may take a long while before a decision is given. These applications come from applicants who have not met the minimum requirements for citizenship but who may later qualify. Such applications are reviewed regularly. If an applicant has to wait for a long time it is because he has taken a long time to meet all the requirements. Once a decision on the application is made, the applicant is notified immediately. Therefore, as long as an applicant has not received a decision there is hope. In recent years good news exceeded bad news, as evidenced by the following statistics: Citizenship Applications from all Categories Approved % Refused % Decisions taken 1972 3168 65.7 1654 34.3 4822 1973 5055 82.1 1104 17.9 6159 1974 3989 93.9 259 6.1 4248 In other words, through the years the number of approvals has been going up. This should gladden the heart of the Member for Sembawang. In answer to the Member's second point, it has been and still is the Government's policy to consider favourably applications from persons who are able to contribute to the economic, social and cultural progress of the country. I do not know the two cases that he has mentioned. If he could write to me, then I will investigate them. With regard to the Member for Anson, he raised the problem of persons who claim birth in Singapore but have no documentary proof. This problem was discussed in Parliament on 17th March, 1972. The present position remains basically the same as in 1972. We cannot waive the citizenship regula tions for these persons because a waiver will immediately encourage applications from all sorts of people, all of them professing birth in Singapore. The crux of the matter is documentary proof. During the national registration exercise it was revealed that there were many people who claimed birth in Singapore but on investigation were found not to be born here. With regard to the granting of citizenship to a person who is the sole remaining non-citizen in a family, the Government is prepared to sympathetically consider the application of such a person provided he will not become a burden to the State. In fact, quite a number of such applicants have already been granted citizenship, if the Member has any particular applicant in mind, he is invited to supply the details to my Ministry so that the case will be looked into.

Sir, I am sorry that this matter, as the Minister has pointed out, is a regular occurrence year after year. Unfortunately the reply also seems to be the stereotyped, year after year - the policy of citizenship is being reviewed year after year. This is one of the stereotype replies; but how it has changed from last year to this year we are not aware of. I thought I heard the Minister say that if citizenship is not granted to an applicant, perhaps he has not satisfied the requirements. I would have thought that once an application is accepted, he has already satisfied the minimum requirements. The other matter is that the applicant is told that no enquiries are to be made. If enquiries are at all made, the applicant is told that his application is still under investigation. If there is no communication between the applicant and the Registry, I do not know how the Department keeps track of an applicant fulfilling the requirements by a certain time, that is, he is able economically to be of some benefit to the State, before granting him citizenship.

Sir, when I say that the policy is being reviewed from year to year, it is not just an empty statement. First, since last year we have been granting citizenship to skilled workers. Secondly, we have also been granting citizenship to those who have done national service. So the policy is not static. We have reviewed our policy and have added on to the criteria of requirements for citizenship. The minimum requirement is, of course, residential qualification, i.e, permanent residence for 10 out of 12 years. There are other requirements, like not being a burden to the State and so forth. With regard to those who qualify under the various criteria, how do we know that circumstances have changed? As I said, they must go and take their turn in the queue. So when their turn comes, they will be notified and interviewed. From the interview we will know whether their circumstances have changed or not.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I am very glad to hear from the Minister that the number of applications approved has been increasing from year to year. I know there has been some progress made in the processing of applications for citizenship. But what about those who have been rejected? There are about 6,000 to 7,000 rejected applications over the years. I wonder whether the Ministry concerned will give more sympathetic consideration henceforth.

First of all, they have to reapply, and then we will consider whether their circumstances have changed.

(In Mandarin): In view of the Minister's very clear answer, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

*Amendments (9) and (10). Mr Ng Kah Ting is not moving. (*See footnote, cols 879-80) The sum of $123,172,060 for Head U ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $16,666,600 for Head U ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

5.45 p.m. Head V -

(In Mandarin): Mr. Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA l004*. (*The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs Ang Nam Piau, L. P.Rodrigo and P. Govindaswamy.). Sir, when the Minister for Finance delivered his Budget speech on 3rd March, 1975, he emphasised the need to introduce various measures to counter economic recession. However, in implementing these measures we have to keep them in line with our long term policies. We have to make use of our current slack period to prepare for a complete economic recovery. Sir, this shows that the Government has made judicious and adequate preparation to meet the present economic recession. Sir, in fact, we have seen that in order to counter and mitigate the impact of recessionary trends on our business community, the Government has started to readjust and formulate new economic policies in the last quarter of 1974. These include the setting up of the Economic Activation Committee to formulate new policies and strategies for economic development, the reorganisation of the Economic Development Board to enhance its efficiency, the setting of an Export Council to help businessmen to find new markets abroad for our manufactured goods, and the setting up of a Foreign Exchange Markets Committee to raise the effectiveness of our financial institutions as well as measures to relax credit squeeze and the partial lifting of restrictions on the purchase of properties by foreign investors. All these measures are aimed at stimulating economic activity in our country. They are all very excellent measures. The provision for the current year for the Ministry of Finance is $707 million, representing 40% increase over last year. Out of this sum $281.7 million is in respect of loans to the business community for their development, which is very good. I would like to know what kind of business enterprises will benefit from these loans and what contribution will they make towards our economic development, and how many jobs will be created for our people. Sir, although the Finance Ministry has spared no effort to stimulate our economy and to attract foreign investment, according to the business circle, there was a big drop in foreign investment last year. What are the reasons for this drop? One of the main reasons may be due to the world recessionary trends. However, apart from this, we also have to take a closer look at our investment policy to see whether there are any shortcomings. If there are, we must take steps to remedy them in order to consolidate our economy. The consensus of the business community is that there have been some shortcomings in the Economic Development Board's policies. These act as an impediment to foreign investment. For example, no proper guidance has been given to the would-be investors. They have not been told of the kind of industries suitable to promote in Singapore. In addition, there has been undue delay in processing the applications. It takes at least a year to process an application. Sometimes there is a delay of two to three years before it is approved, and during this period the investors do not know what to do. This has become a wet blanket over the enthusiasm of would-be investors. If we are to continue to attract foreign investment, something must be done to remedy such a situation. Sir, another complaint relates to the difficulties faced by foreign investors in the purchase of residential properties. This has been a vexing problem to them because the Land Office has adopted delaying tactics in considering their applications. It invariably happens that when a buyer and seller have entered into an agreement and after payment is made, the Land Office then informs the buyer that his application has been rejected. Thus, he will have to engage a lawyer to get a refund of his money. This is another depressing effect on the confidence of foreign investors to invest and reside here. I hope the Minister will take measures to remedy this situation, Finally, I would like to put forward three questions to the Minister. Firstly, how is the Finance Ministry going to encourage and subsidise our export trade? What kind of industrial or commercial enterprises will benefit from such subsidies? Secondly, will there be a further relaxation on the supply of money in order to encourage and stimulate our economy, in particular, the construction industry? Thirdly, on 17th March, 1975, when I took part in the Budget debate I mentioned about some difficulties faced by the timber industry. One of the reasons given was that the Timber Export Industry Board was not efficient. The Minister then answered that he would take note of this. I do not know whether an investigation has since been carried out or not. I also mentioned the great need to promote our timber export and wood-processing industry. Since the Minister has once again emphasised the need for diversification of our economy, he should pay more attention to this industry and ensure that plans are being made to develop this particular industry which has great profit potential. I would like to ask the Minister another question. I wonder whether he knows anything about the Customs Branch Office in Jurong. Oddly enough, this office only deals with non-dutiable goods. For dutiable goods one has to go to the main Customs Office to pay the duty. Therefore, many industrialists find it troublesome and inconvenient to do so, particularly so in view of the traffic problem. Since there is a Customs Branch Office in Jurong, it should be given the power to levy taxes on dutiable goods as well. There are about 500 to 600 factories in Jurong and this Customs Office in Jurong should provide such services for their convenience.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I suppose it is our Government's policy to recruit preferably Singapore citizens, wherever possible, into our civil service. In this connection, I would like to ask the Minister for Finance the following questions: 1. What is the total number of Divisions I and II officers in the civil service as at the end of February 1975? 2. How many of these officers are non-Singapore citizens? 3. What steps, if any, are taken or will be taken by the Government to grant Singapore citizenship to non-Singapore citizens officers? 4. Will the Minister for Finance set a target date for the civil service to be completely staffed by Singapore citizens?

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, under this subhead I apply myself to the policy of the Ministry of Finance regarding revenue collection and other matters under the Ministry relating to policy. In his reply to Members in the debate on the Budget statement, the Minister said that: `It is always very difficult to balance the needs for additional revenue against the concessions which Members think should be given because of inflationary or recessionary effects which we are experiencing at present.' The Minister also said that there should be greater recognition of the need by all citizens to pay for some of the services which are afforded by the Government. All this is appreciated and not difficult to grasp. Today, the people are paying for most, if not almost, all the services which the Government is affording the people. Conspicuously excluded, however, is education which, of course is heavily subsidised and so also the medical services. The problem will be to persuade the people to recognise the fact that mounting costs determined by external factors requires increased national revenue, to be acquired through taxation and other measures, to pay for more costly services. Of course, the additional burden must be spread justly. To do so, I should think it necessary at all tunes to present a coherent explanation of revenue-raising measures. It is important to ensure that explanations of revenue-raising measures are always adequate and credible as representing aspects of a just and well-considered policy of national revenue development, so as not to invite public belief that they are being taxed ad hoc simply because the Government thinks they can take it and therefore should pay, and because that tax measures will yield the most money. In his reply to Members on the debate on the Budget statement, the Minister thought that the increase of $60 per annum on the 1000 cc and under cars was very modest as it amounted to only $5 a month and which the Minister thought that anybody who went to the Orchard Road Car Park for a meal could afford. If this response of the Minister is construed by the public as an explanation and justification of the $60 increase, then surely there will he the public fear of another increase shortly by another $60 per annum, and which the Minister would probably explain away again as "just another $5 increase a month". 6.00 p.m. The Minister said that having imposed this tax he did not want Members to think that it was the end of all taxes as far as road transportation was concerned. He also said that this tax was meant to be principally revenue-raising and not as a solution to the congestion problem or towards making a success of the CBD scheme. The public must then be puzzled because, in his statement in Parliament on 16th October, 1972, on raising the road tax, the Minister offered the explanation that "the revised rates should encourage more people to use public transport to their places of work in the central city area." Again, in his reply on the 17th March, the Minister utilised the contention of Members that the car being a necessity is owned by every family to regard it as a standard possession and suggested therefore "there was a chicken in every pot in Singapore". That is why the Minister was unrepentant about the road tax increases. The Minister founded his unrepentance upon a premise which he himself constructed out of an earnest opinion of Members. But, Sir, I appreciate the nature of the problem relating to the need to increase our revenue with which the Minister is confronted, in particular the problem of preparing to meet the increasing expectation of a youthful population. As this youthful population of ours marry and have children, they begin to have expectations both for their own future and for the future of their children. But I believe, Sir, that our people can be carried along to bear a greater national expenditure if they see fairness and coherence in the explanation or justifications supporting revenue-raising measures. On the civil service, I wish to make the observation that much can be improved in the lower ranks of the service. As the Minister has pointed out, the officers at this level are concerned with the administration of rules and regulations and are in contact with the public. While I acknowledge the general efficiency of the service, I must agree with the Minister that we must not reach the point of "smugness and complacency in the civil service". I feel that there is an immediate need to orientate, with emphasis, the attitude of the civil service officers at the lower ranks towards assisting the public in areas other than those with which they are concerned. Members of the public are often told by officers that the matters they have brought directly to the attention of the officers cannot be dealt with at that counter or in that section or that department. When direction of further assistance is sought by members of the public, the officers either refuse or are unable (probably they are more unable than being inclined to refuse) to deal with matters which specifically relate to their counter, section or department. I should think that if a matter is brought to an officer for his attention but that it should be dealt with in another office or department in a particular way, the officer approached should not only say, "No, this is not done here" but also say where the matter can be dealt with. He should also be able to say how that member of the public should go about it. Such orientation may be useful at present as the Minister has made a provision of $2,188.2 million for the fiscal year 1975 for Development, an increase of 40.1% over the fiscal year 1974; while allowing an increase of only 1,689 posts for fiscal year 1975, i.e, an increase of only 2.7% for fiscal year 1974. The Minister has asked his Ministry to improve the civil service through developing greater administrative skills, adopting innovating ideas, improving work procedures and methods and making greater use of machines. The Ministry of Finance has also issued a circular to the service calling for higher productivity. I feel that the service at the lower ranks can become productive if officers develop the initiative and capacity to assist the public, as I have suggested. I would conclude by recalling the Minister's assurance to the Member for River Valley that should cases like the example of the 50 bicycles be brought to his notice, he would send the officer responsible to the Staff Training Institute. But for the improvement of the civil service, can we have it the other way round? Can the Minister keep sending officers to the Staff Training Institute first in order to avoid the 50-bicycle blunder?

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the chit fund companies have closed down for quite some time. A small sum of money was supposed to have been paid out to the subscribers in various stages. It appears that only one or two payments have been made so far. There are many people involved in the two major chit fund companies and they are still waiting for the second payment of their dividends. However, there is no news about this. The rate of making payment is rather slow. It is believed that the cost of administration will eventually exceed the actual amount to be paid out. Can something be done about this? Sir, in the last one year, bank rates on fixed deposits and saving accounts had fluctuated several times. At one stage the rates increased by 2%. Then subsequently they began to drop. Though this may be good for investment, there is a danger that money would be withdrawn, as is being done now, and invested in illegal ventures such as illegal tontines, lotteries, unauthorised chit funds, etc. Although for general investment purposes the reduction in rates is a good trend, can the Minister do something to prevent the rates from fluctuating? The leave allowance given to civil servants appears to have been fixed according to grades, and an increase is given only on promotion to a higher grade. Can the Minister revise the scheme and introduce some form of sliding scale for payment of leave allowances? This is requested only in the interest of a more faithful civil service. Sir, the Post Office Savings Bank has advertised in no small way that its branches are spread throughout the Republic for the convenience of the general public and that a number of them have since been computerised, and the final objective is to introduce this system to all its branches. However, in almost ail the Post Office Savings Bank branches, the sharing of premises is noticeable - the officer in charge of the Post Office acting as Branch Manager of the Bank. Depositors of the Post Office Savings Bank have been told quite a number of times that funds kept in such branches are not sufficient to meet the immediate demands, even though the computerised system was introduced. Can the Minister explain why the POSB cannot keep sufficient funds of its own to help the depositors so that they need not be driven away from time to time? If necessary, post a security guard at the office. How is our national shipping line faring at present against other shipping lines? Is there any move to make it compulsory for our exports to be carried on our national shipping line? What is the Government doing to promote Singapore-made goods in other countries? INTRACO seems to have receded from the public eye, and what role is this company playing today? Sir, consumer supermarkets have been opened to check the rising prices of goods. It is to the credit of the Government to introduce them. In spite of my complaint last year that prices in some supermarkets were not as competitive as those in the private sector, they still sell many items at S to 15 cents more than what the private dealers sell. Can something be done to improve the situation? Though prices may be going clown, the Government must maintain and squeeze the private dealers out, especially those who are not fair in their prices, by lowering the prices at the supermarkets. Sir, I would also request that before any price increase of essential foodstuff is allowed, the Minister should first check the stock in order that the consumers or the merchants do not lose in any way. What is the Minister's stand on the subject of the 13th month payment? When this allowance was introduced, it was made clear that a periodical review would be made in order to improve the situation. Will it be maintained or will an increase be given? I would also like to know how many civil servants have been given merit increments last year. I hope the Minister will grant more merit increments to deserving and loyal civil servants. This merit increment will help a great deal to retain civil servants who are needed and it will also he an incentive for others to get increments. Sir, since my complaint last year on the filling up of income tax forms there is a slight change in the tax form for this year. There is now a section for inclusion of a claim for tax relief for aged parents. However, I still say that the tax form can be further modified for easy completion. One way would be the "ticking" method. I hope the Minister will look into it and improve it in the coming year. The "Save Water" and "Save Energy" campaigns have been going on for some time. This was especially evident during the energy crisis. All kinds of steps were introduced to curb power consumption. Of late it would appear that there is a slackening of vigilance and a certain amount of complacency. A hue and cry is made only when someone steps on our toes. Why can we not maintain strict vigilance over the need to cultivate the saving habit? It will be good for the country and the economy as a whole. Something is wrong with the way PUB bills are drawn up. There are far too many cases of persons being overcharged and suffering losses when adjustments are made in the charges. Is the computer working properly or does it require a little bit of oiling? It would appear that the amounts in these bills fluctuate on the high side, thus creating some diffidence in the public view and also anxiety in that they are always paying an increasing amount. When the matter is brought to the authorities concerned, the officials scratch their heads and make adjustments in the following month's bill. Why should there be such discrepancies? Can the PUB recruit more meter readers to read the meters monthly so that an accurate assessment can be made rather than make an estimate which is usually faulty? In certain areas there are also inadequate meter readers to cope with the work. 6.15 p.m.

Sir, the Member for Sembawang has asked quite a number of questions. I do not know whether I have got all of them down. I think he complained about guidance to investors not being adequate and that they were not told what industries were being promoted. He also complained of delays in processing applications, some of which took two to three years. On this particular comment, I am a bit surprised because the Economic Development Board is one of our most efficient institutions. I think its record over the last 10 to 15 years has been quite good. It has had a reputation of being able to reply very promptly to applications and, in some cases, it has given guidance to investors within two or three weeks. If there is any particular instance which has been brought to the Member's notice, I would like to know and I am sure the EDB also would like to know what particular inefficiency has resulted from their efforts to promote investment in Singapore. The Member also complained about investors having difficulty in purchasing property and when notified by the Land Office that their app1ications for purchase of property have been rejected, they have been to a lot of trouble in recovering their deposits. On this matter, while I take general interest in it, the Land Office is not under my jurisdiction. But I would say that in many cases, where the investors are going to reside in Singapore, a high proportion of their applications has been approved. For those cases which have not been favoured by either the Land Office or by the Ministry of Finance, it may be that the property applied for has very generous land areas. I think the idea is that the investors should be enabled to settle in some place which would give them peace of mind and ability to concentrate upon their industries. Beyond that, I do not think that it is our intention that real estate should be bought up even by investors. The Member also asked three questions. First, how is the Minister going to encourage and subsidise industries, and what industries would be subsidised in the present situation? The answer to this is that all industries are welcome although those which are more viable under present circumstances, such as shipbuilding, shiprepairing, oil rig building, and machine tool industries which service these industries, would be given some priority. The assistance which has been given has been clearly made available in the form of tax incentives, export incentives, assistance with loan financing, assistance in industrial buildings and infrastructure. In the matter of export financing, the Monetary Authority of Singapore is finalising arrangements to enable banks to rediscount export bills with the Authority. This facility will provide a cheaper source of finance for exports. Details of this arrangement will be announced very shortly by the Monetary Authority. His second question, I think, is whether there is any further relaxation on money supply. In the case of money supply, we have relaxed all credit controls and the banks are quite free to lend money without any limit to any particular industry or industrial sector. His third question is on the difficulties of the timber industry and he mentioned that I had stated that I would take note of the difficulties and refer them to the Timber Export Industry Board. This matter has been noted as promised and the particular section of his comments has been referred for action by the Timber Export Industry Board. I have not had any reaction as yet. The final suggestion which the Member made was in relation to the Customs office in Jurong which, he says, deals only with non-dutiable goods. I am not familiar with this particular division of work in Jurong. But it seems a reasonable suggestion that there should he officers there who could also deal with dutiable goods, and I will refer his very useful suggestion to the Customs Department for consideration. The Member for Thomson asked questions on recruitment of Singapore citizens into the civil service and would like to know the number of Divisions I and II officers in the civil service as at the end of February 1975. The figures for February 1975 are not yet available, hut figures as at December 1974 show that there was a total of 21,160 officers in Divisions I and II in the civil service, of whom 19,932 are Singapore citizens and 1,228 or 5.8% are non-citizens. Of these 1,228 non-citizens, 606 officers are in Division I and 622 are in Division II. These civil servants may be considered for citizenship after five years' permanent residence, instead of the normal requirement of 10 years. There are, I suppose, sonic advantages in having a civil service staffed entirely by Singapore citizens. But it is not possible at this stage of Singapore's development for the Singapore civil service to be so staffed. A manpower survey conducted jointly by my Ministry and the Economic Research Centre of the University of Singapore suggests that the manpower shortages of engineers, architects, surveyors, doctors, dentists, lawyers and technicians will continue in the l970s. We shall not be able to train sufficient numbers of such professional and skilled personnel from our own citizens, and we shall therefore have to continue to recruit non-citizens if our development programmes are not to be adversely affected. It is not possible for me, therefore, to set any target date by which the civil service will be entirely staffed by Singapore citizens, nor do I consider it desirable that any target should be set. Singapore has benefited from recruitment of non-citizens into our public service in the past through the system of open competition. I would favour continuing to leave the door open. However, the Member for Thomson may rest assured that, all things being equal, a Singapore citizen takes and will continue to take preference over non-citizens in appointments to the civil service. The Member for Serangoon Gardens touched on a number of points. He gave me a lecture on the way I should present my Budget and explain the revenue raising measures to the public. Well, I am much obliged for this little lesson on explanations on tax problems. I realise, of course, that the explanations on why taxes have to be imposed should be fair and coherent. If I am lacking in this particular quality on this particular Budget on the 3rd March and 17th March, I hope that these shortcomings will be excused by Members. But the circumstances in which I made the statements on taxes on cars in October 1972 and in March 1975 are quite different. In the first instance, we were in the rather happy position that we were not really short of money, even for development purposes. In the 1975 Budget, I thought I explained that there was a gap between the revenue we had and the total expenditure, including development expenditure, and therefore I had to place greater emphasis upon the revenue-raising aspect of the tax. I did explain that the effect on the car-using public was a secondary objective, and hoped that there would be some psychological effect on people against using their cars - some encouragement would be given to them to adopt the Park and Ride scheme, and also adjust to the limitation on people going to the Central Business District during peak hours. 6.30 p.m. As to whether or not there would be further taxes, this would depend upon the traffic situation and perhaps upon the need for raising further revenue. I thought the tax imposed this year was modest but would have a psychological effect. Anyway I hope that there would be an upturn in the economy and it may not be necessary for me to come again for taxation for the purpose of raising additional revenue. The Member for Serangoon Gardens also mentioned the civil servants and the desirability that there should be no smugness or complacency among the civil service. I quite agree that our civil servants should be as polite and as helpful as possible, and if they cannot deal with any particular request of the public at a particular counter or in their own office then they should try and indicate where additional help can be obtained and perhaps even help them in referring the matter to the particular office that deals with the problem. The Member also mentioned my comments on the civil service and the way in which they dealt with problems. He also quoted the two instances which had been raised by the Member for River Valley. I have been trying to trace these two particular instances in my Ministry. I am afraid we have no record of them. I must assume that perhaps these examples are, if not classical, apocryphal in nature, and they probably sprang from the mind of the Member for River Valley. (I am sorry he is not here.) In fact, it is like the fishermen's tale where the fish grows bigger and bigger. These blunders appear to have been magnified. I would, however, say that in particular matters of this nature, technical officers have a tendency to try and blind the Ministry of Finance officers with scientific verbiage. They use a description to try to frighten my officers in regard to their ignorance. My Ministry has a part to play. We are guardians of public finance and we must see that money is spent in the way it should be spent without any extravagance. So even where we fear we may be ignorant, we still ask questions which we think are necessary. We should not be frightened of being thought ignorant by asking questions which we feel must be answered before we can be satisfied that expenditure should be approved. This is probably analogous to the patient and the doctor (since doctors are mentioned) - the doctor probably knows better about his patient's condition. The doctor can probably suggest that an operation is very necessary to protect the health of the patient, but finally it is the patient who must decide whether or not to undergo an operation. In the same way it is the Ministry of Finance which must decide whether or not money may be allocated for any particular purpose. If extravagance is allowed, and if departments are permitted to spend as they like, it would mean that the burden of extravagance would have eventually to be placed upon the shoulders of the public in the form of heavier taxation. While I hope that my Ministry of Finance officers are sufficiently capable of distinguishing 50-cycle generators from 50 cycles and one generator, I agree that they should always be given additional training. In fact, they have been sent to the Staff Training Institute even before any notice is taken of any particular officer who requires special training. But if particular officers do make blunders of the nature which had been described by the Member for River Valley, I certainly would consider that perhaps they could improve by undergoing a course at the Staff Training Institute. I now come to the comments of the Member for Anson. He touched on such a variety of subjects that I will only answer those which come under my own jurisdiction. He mentioned about chit funds. The position is that since August 1972, 26 chit fund companies have been wound up. Time is required to adjudicate on claims and recover as much assets as possible, and the interim dividends can only be declared as and when there are sufficient funds. The public is always informed of such payments through press releases. The delay in declaring funds was caused by difficulties encountered in the collection of debts owed by debtor subscribers. In some cases court action has to he taken to recover such debts. To-date the Official Receiver has declared interim dividends totalling $9,264,638.15 to 43,026 subscribers of 14 chit funds. Between April and September this year another 5,575 subscribers of 10 other chit funds will be receiving their dividends totalling Sl,950,527. It is anticipated that a second and final dividend for the two big chit funds will be paid sometime towards the end of the year. I assure the Member that the Government is as keen as he is to see an early conclusion to matters connected with the closure of chit funds. The Member also expressed concern over recent fluctuations in interest rates. Movements in our interest rates have been to a large extent influenced by international events, and it is difficult for us in Singapore to insulate ourselves from movements in the international monetary markets. However, there is no indication that fluctuations in interest rates in Singapore over the past year have produced adverse effects on the level of deposits placed with banks and finance companies. On the contrary, these deposits continued to increase and at the end of February 1975 fixed deposits with banks and finance companies stood at $5,179.7 million compared to $4,601.2 million in July 1974. For the same period savings deposits increased from $746.7 million to $792.5 million. I would like to emphasise, however, there is not much that the Government can do if individuals, in their hope for quick gains, take unnecessary risks. The Member for Anson also asked why the Post Office Savings Bank cannot maintain sufficient funds to meet withdrawals. This Savings Bank always ensures that there is sufficient cash at its various counters and branches to meet withdrawals. But like any prudent banking institution it tries not to overstock liquid funds at counters, since such funds do not earn interest but only add on to costs. With the installation of computerised on-line banking, the Post Office Savings Bank has in fact increased the amount that may be withdrawn. At the Savings Bank counter in a Post Office a depositor can now withdraw up to $2,000 once a day, whereas previously the limit was $500 once every three days. At any Post Office Savings Bank branch the amount that can be withdrawn is higher, namely $5,000 in cash once every day. The Member also enquired as to the activities of the Neptune Orient Lines and Intraco. Neptune Orient Lines' success should not be judged solely by the record of its profits. The Government is not disappointed at the progress made by the national shipping line. It is not the Government's intention to curb the freedom of shippers for the short term benefit of Neptune Orient Lines by making it compulsory for our exports to be carried on the national line. As for Intraco, its principal activity remains in international trading. Export sales account for 60% of the company's turnover. I am pleased to say that, since its inception in 1968, Intraco's turnover has increased from $11 million to $63 million. The Member asked about export promotion efforts of the Government. I have made quite a detailed statement on export promotion during the Budget debate. I also mentioned the re-discounting of export bills just now in reply to the Member for Thomson. The Member for Anson also touched on the higher prices being charged by consumer supermarkets. Consumer supermarkets provide a valuable service in stabilising prices of goods, particularly when there are unfounded rumours of shortages of goods due to hoarding in anticipation of price increases. These supermarkets help to force the private dealers to sell at reasonable and even at lower levels. However, because of higher overheads and a faster turnover of stocks, there may be isolated cases where goods are sold at higher prices in supermarkets as they have to pay higher prices for new stocks. In the end it is the consumers who must make every effort to help themselves and make more use of the information of prices supplied daily by the Department of Trade. They should refrain from buying from shops charging higher prices and instead patronise those selling at fair prices. 6.45 p.m. The Member asked questions regarding the civil service. On leave allowance, I would like to say that the allowance is fixed according to the divisional status of the officer and not his grade. An increase in leave allowance is only given if the officer is promoted to a higher division, for example, a promotion from Division IV to Division IH. This is because under the old leave scheme an officer's eligibility was based on his divisional status and his leave would be revised to a higher rate on his promotion to a higher division. The leave allowance' compensates officers for the number of days' leave which they gave up, and it is therefore not logical to allow a revision in leave allowances except when there is a change in the divisional status of the officer. On the Member's question regarding the 13th month allowance, it was quite clearly stated when the allowance was introduced that it was not to be confused with bonus. A bonus is uncertain in amount and it may or may not be paid. But the 13th month allowance, like the National Wages Council payment, is a wage supplement. These are orderly adjustments of wages pending a comprehensive revision of salaries. I see no reason why the 13th month allowance should not be maintained. As regards the merit increment scheme, I recollect explaining in the last Budget debate that merit increments are awarded to deserving officers in the basic grades in the administrative and professional services. It is meant to give recognition to outstanding officers who are not yet ready for promotion but who deserve a faster increase in their salary than the normal increments would allow. For 1974, 62 civil servants were granted merit increments as follows: two were given one increment; 59 were given two increments; and one was given three increments. In addition to the merit increment scheme, outstanding officers in the administrative and professional services may be considered for accelerated promotion. This will help to enhance the quality of the civil service by attracting and retaining every bright and capable officer. Finally, I would like to thank the Member for his suggestion regarding income tax forms. I assure the Member that in designing the income tax forms convenience of the taxpayer is always borne in mind. The Inland Revenue Department is continually striving to improve and simplify the form as this not only benefits the taxpayer but also facilitates processing by the department.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to comment on the Minister's reply in respect of the 13th month payment. If I heard him correctly, he said that the 13th month payment is a wage supplement. By that, it would mean that it is a form of a deferred wage which is paid to a public employee at the end of the year for his 12 months of service. I would presume that interpretation to be correct. If the 13th month payment is a wage supplement, and if my interpretation is correct, I wonder whether the Minister would reconsider his earlier decision not to pay public employees who retire prior to 31st December of any year. I feel it is only fair that they ought to be paid this wage supplement. If a public employee works for 10 months or 11 months in the year, surely he is entitled to that portion of the 13th month payment on a pro rata basis. I hope the Minister will consider this point because this has given rise to a lot of unhappiness among civil servants. Having put in years of dedicated service, just because they happen to retire one day short of the full year in the year of retirement, they are deprived of such a wage supplement, as the Minister calls it, which is due to them. On the other hand, public employees who resign after a very short period in the civil service enjoy the 13th month allowance because they choose to resign after the 1st of January of the following year. This is the kind of situation that gives rise to a lot of discontent. Civil servants who have served the Government loyally during their whole life are in the last year of retirement not given what is due to them. On the other hand, those who have not shown any loyalty know how to put in their resignation at the proper time and so enjoy the benefit of the 13th month payment. I hope the Minister will reconsider this matter sympathetically. Even though it may be too late for some civil ser vants who have already retired, there is no harm because the decision could have retrospective effect, and this will make everybody happy.

Sir, I do not think this is the particular place for me to make a decision of this nature. I am quite aware of all these representations. In fact, this is not the first time that a representation has been made and I do not think this is the place for me to change the decision. I have no doubt that the matter raised by the Member may be considered again, hut I do not promise that any consideration will lead to a positive result.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I thank the Minister for his explanation and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead AAA 1105. Sir, in the past one week many Members have criticised against undesirable attitudes of civil servants. Such criticisms are well-intentioned and constructive in nature. The purpose is to help the civil servants to carry out their duty more efficiently. In moving this amendment, I do not seek to criticise their attitude. I would like to fight for the benefits of the civil servants. Since the civil servants are serving the country and the people loyally and faithfully, their welfare should be looked after by the Government. I would like to lodge a complaint to the Minister regarding their Municipal Provident Fund contributions. I understand that on 26th November, 1974, the Ministry of Finance issued a circular to the effect that up to 31-12-74 members of the MPF could opt for conversion to the Central Provident Fund scheme. Most of the civil servants opted for the CPF scheme. Under this scheme, the members' contributions will be credited into their accounts in the POSB. These contributions in the POSB will then earn interest as from 1st January, 1975. However, the Ministry of Finance has not yet paid their MPF contributions into their POSB accounts. I wonder when will their monies be paid into their respective POSB accounts. I hope that this matter of conversion and the payment of monies into their POSB accounts could be expedited. As a result of the delay in crediting their POSB accounts, many civil servants have lost a large sum of interest. I would also like to ask the Minister whether their contributions will earn interest as from 1-1-75.

Sir, under the special scheme offered to Municipal Provident Fund members to withdraw from. the Municipal Provident Fund, 1,005 out of a total of 1,297 officers opted to join the CPF scheme and to have their MPF contributions transferred into their accounts with the Post Office Savings Bank. In view of the large number of officers involved in the exercise, some delay in processing the MPF contributions for credit of the accounts of the officers is unavoidable. Each payment has to be computed by the Accountant-General's Department and verified by the Audit Department. The position is aggravated by the fact that the conversion date coincided with the closing date of the financial year of the Municipal Provident Fund. The MPF rules do not provide for interest to be credited to a member who has withdrawn from the MPF. Interest, therefore, cannot be paid under present rules on contributions which have not been paid into the officer's POSB account, but my officers will do their best to cut down on delays.

(In Mandarin): Sir, in view of the explanation given by the Minister, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. 7.00 p.m.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead BAA 1105*. (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr N. Govindasamy.). Sir, the Government, as an employer, employs the largest number of workers. So the spate of daily staff problems and grievances in such a large service must surely be innumerable. It requires very little commonsense to understand that a properly constituted machinery where grievances could be aired and problems attended to is a vital prerequisite to good industrial relationship between the Government as an employer and its employees. But one gets the impression that in certain departments this machinery is non-existent, and where it exists one sometimes gets the impression that the officers in charge, who are called staff officers or by some other designation, do not seem to be competent enough to deal with stall problems. A competent industrial relations officer must be one who possesses understanding and be able to temper decisions with a human touch. One gets the impression that the only qualification all these officers have is their ability to quote relevant, and sometimes also irrelevant, sections of the Instruction Manual in dealing with staff problems. A visit to a staff officer reminds one of a visit to a fortune teller. It is not that I myself have visited a fortune teller. But from what I have observed, the authority of the fortune teller on the roadside is the book of oracle. If you consult him, he will use the book of oracle to tell your fortune. While he understands what is written in the book of oracle, very often he cannot grasp the significance of the text in that book. So we have the staff officer who understands what is written in the Instruction Manual, but very often fails to understand the significance and the spirit of certain sections in the Instruction Manual. Like the incompetent fortune teller, the incompetent staff officer gives his answer each time by referring to the Instruction Manual as his guide and authority. This must surely lead to a lot of unhappiness because the problems which are brought up are very often human problems, and they must be attended to with regard to human feelings in order to remove the grievances. Using the Instruction Manual as the only means of dealing with the problems does not produce that kind of effect. So we find problems after problems coming up in the civil service which are badly attended to and this has resulted in greater frustration. That is why we hear in this House not only this year but also for many years previously that there are frustrations and grievances in the civil service. We also hear that it is not so much the quantum of pay that matters. Money is not the important factor. There must be job satisfaction. I think one of the causes of job discontent is the lack of attention and the lack of care on the part of Government not only in constituting a proper grievance machinery to solve staff problems but also in employing and training people to deal with such problems. It is necessary to train officers adequately to deal with such problems in a more qualified manner. My question to the Minister is this does the Government consider that attention to staff problems is of vital importance in ensuring an efficient civil service? If so, is it not true that the Government is not doing enough to ensure that the officers who man the grievance machinery are competent enough? Should not the Government do something so that problems can be solved more effectively and discontent in the civil service minimised? I would like to know from the Minister whether there are such plans afoot and whether there is going to be a change in its approach in dealing with staff problems. The present relationship seems to be that of master and servant. If they do not like them, they have to leave. There is no question of treating the officers with due respect. I do not think this is the intention of the political leadership. But sometimes because of an inadequate machinery and the lack of competent officers it can result in this sort of situation.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to commend the Ministry of Finance for the improvement it has made to the format of the Main and Development Estimates year after year. However, I would like to make two comments in respect of the Estimates as presented this year. My first comment is that information on the staff establishment does not reflect the true position or the state of affairs in respect of personnel in the Government service. The second column in the Estimates gives the number of posts for the previous year. The third column gives the provision of personnel for the coming year. What is perhaps needed is another column next to tile establishment requirement, stating the actual staffing position. For example, for this year it is stated that for FY 74 the Budget Division was supposed to have 159 Division I officers, but it is not known how many were actually employed. But as I understand it, every one of the Ministers who spoke before the Minister for Finance seemed to be talking about staff shortages in their Ministries. Perhaps in the Budget Estimates for next year we could see an additional column showing the actual number of persons working in each Department, and not just the establishment requirement alone. My second comment is this. If the Minister for Finance could just turn to page 93 of the Main and Development Estimates, he would notice that in respect of the salary of the Minister for Science and Technology the wage mentioned against this item is $7,000 per mensem but the appropriation for FY 75 is only $42,000. Sir, it neither adds nor multiplies. If the wage is $7,000 per mensem, then the annual appropriation should be $84,000 and not $42.

000. Sir, I know, and you know, that only part of the Minister's wages is paid by the Government. But the point is that the Main and Development Estimates as a public document does not let everybody know that the Minister receives only part of his wages from the Government. I would have thought that a footnote at the bottom of the page or somewhere appropriate could be inserted to explain the difference.

Sir, I am sorry to hear the Member for Moulmein's comments on the poor state of our industrial relations. I had the impression that our relations with the union representatives representing civil servants were of the best, and most harmonious. This is certainly so over the last few years when, I think, the question of wages was not of very great relevance in our discussions because we give regular increases in salary. I would have thought that under these circumstances there would be very few complaints. Of course, our officials in charge of industrial relations ought to be quite flexible in outlook and not at all rigid. They are, of course, bound by certain terms of reference when they go to the negotiation table, in the same way that union representatives must be given certain terms when they negotiate. But if, in fact, there were cases where we have been too rigid and inflexible, I would like to know the particular instances. The Member for Moulmein must forgive me if I do not always accept general criticisms made on my officers by persons who may sit on the opposite side of the negotiating table. In the same way, I do not always accept complaints from the employers' side that union negotiators are too rigid and inflexible. I agree that industrial relations is a very specialised field and that there should be a special aptitude or training so that negotiations will proceed more smoothly. I think some of my officers have had such experience. The Member for Moulmein may wish to know that one of the senior officers dealing with industrial relations in my Ministry had been seconded to the NTUC Research Unit and served there for seven years. So he should not be insensitive to union thinking in industrial relations. Another senior officer has attended an overseas course, and yet another is presently overseas attending a six-month course with special emphasis on industrial relations. 7.15 p.m. The Member for Telok Blangah raised two matters. He also paid my Ministry some compliments on the improved format of the Budget. But he suggested that there should be one further improvement and that is the actual number of posts filled should also be shown in the Estimates. This is somewhat difficult to adopt because the number varies from day to day depending on recruitment, transfers and resignations. Since time is required to print and check the Estimates, the position shown on any particular day when we prepare the Budget will be out of date by the time these Estimates are presented to Parliament. Nevertheless, I am grateful for having given thought to this subject and made the suggestion. Regarding the provision shown in the Estimates for the Senior Minister, Science and Technology, the explanation is that the appropriation represents the difference between his salary of $7,000 per mensem as Senior Minister and his salary of $3,500 per mensem as Vice-Chancellor of the University of Singapore. I will certainly consider for next year, if, in fact, it is still relevant, the suggestion of the Member that in special cases like this an appropriate note explaining the position should be given in the Estimates.

Sir, the reason for the Finance Minister to think that there existed in the last few years good industrial relations probably stems from the fact that there has been an absence of angry speeches, strike notices and industrial action on the part of the civil service unions. But this has got nothing to do with the speed and effectiveness that the grievances of the public employees have been settled. This is due largely to very responsible and reasonable attitude of trade union leaders whose patience seems to be inexhaustible in so far as staff relations affecting the kind of unsatisfactory attention from the Government is concerned. The Minister mentioned that there are a few such qualified officers. I am not quarrelling with the fact that there are a few competent civil servants. But he must not forget that there are so many thousands of public employees. I believe the number of the monthly and daily-rated employees exceeds 50,000. With three or four competent officers that the Minister has mentioned, how can they hope to solve so many problems that occur in the different places of work? The three or four officers that the Minister has in Fullerton Building is not all that sufficient. Competent officers must be present in the various Ministries, and not only that but they must also be present in the different sections of the Ministries because they have got a very big staff. So I say that it is generally accepted that a sufficiency of good personnel officers is an important prerequisite for good industrial relations in the civil service. My plea to the Minister is that what he has at present is not enough. He must increase the number. Probably his colleague, the Minister for Education, would need some extra qualified and competent personnel officers. I am not complaining. The question is we must always improve. If things work satisfactorily, we must always aim for the better. That must be the objective. While generally the situation is satisfactory, there is much room for improvement. For a start, probably this could he one area where he could look into. Having said that, I do not know whether my colleague wants to raise any other matters.

Yes, I want to.

In that case, I will not withdraw my amendment for the moment.

Sir, in respect of staff, I am quite aware that the staffing position changes. In the Estimates we could perhaps, give the staffing position as at December of the year or at midyear. It would give us some indication as to what the actual position is. I think that would help us in our appreciation of the amount of work done by civil servants in the various Ministries.

Sir, my first comment on the remarks of tile Member for Moulmein is that I accept his statement that there is always room for improvement. In regard to the Member for Telok Blangah, I will give some consideration to put the actual staffing position at particular dates if it is relevant. I think December may be suitable. But, as I say, we continually keep on recruiting. We will try and see whether in presenting tile format next year we can put in an extra column. We will also see whether it would be helpful to show as at any particular date how the actual staffing relates to the establishment of posts. I will certainly consider it for next year.

Sir, in view of the fact that the discussion between the Minister and I ends in complete accord, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr J. F. Conceicao -

Amendment (4) has been withdrawn. Mr Chin, amendment (5).

(In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead CBA 1107. Sir, in recent years, Singapore has been affected by international inflation. The prices of some goods have accordingly gone up, for example, bread, kway teow and mee. The prices of these commodities have been adjusted several times. In fact, "adjustment" means "price increase". I do not know why the merchants do not use the words "price increase" but prefer to use "price adjustment". Perhaps they want to use euphemistic words so as to confuse the minds of the people. All these price increases are in multiples of 5 cents or 10 cents. But during the second half of last year, food producing countries had reasonably good harvests. Prices of basic commodities have come down, but the prices of bread, mee and kway teow came down by only one cent or two cents. The increase or decrease of prices of some essential goods have to be approved by the Department of Trade. Therefore, I would like to ask what explanation can the Department of Trade give for this unreasonable situation. Bread, mee and kway teow are the daily staple foods of the people and changes in prices affect their living to a great extent. Therefore, they are entitled to receive an explanation. Sir, I note that retailers have a very unsociable attitude towards consumers. At the time when prices increase, they will immediately mark up the prices of their existing stock. But conversely when the prices of commodities come down, they still sell their existing stock at the same high prices. This is very unfair to the consumers. I would ask whether the Department of Trade has taken any action against such retailers. If no action has ever been taken, I wonder whether the Department could instruct the wholesalers when selling their commodities to the retailers, to mark the retail prices of those commodities in order to prevent the retailers from exploiting tile consumers.

Sir, I wish to congratulate the Member for Aljunied for noticing a greater tendency for prices to increase than to reduce. I cannot claim any direct responsibility for this curious economic phenomenon. The Government, as represented by my Ministry, does not have any formal control over the prices of foodstuffs in Singapore, although we would like to be satisfied that price increases of essential commodities are justifiable on economic grounds. I think in most cases, maybe in all cases, we are consulted. I can only suppose that the reason for this tendency is that it is bad marketing strategy for a company to have a series of small price increases, however justifiable, for its products. This could give consumers the impression that the company's prices are continually rising and generate more ill-will than necessary against the company. As a result, e is a tendency to hold back small eases until justification can be prod for an increase to the nearest round figure, say, 5 cents, 10 cents or even 50 cents, depending on the value the products concerned. On the other hand, when prices of commodities fall, the Government has often urged upon companies that the benefits be immediately passed on to consumers. Consequently, in some cases, price reduction which they reluctantly concede could be less than five cents ending on the prices of the items concerned. It may also be that we would not as yet expect price reduces to be as large as price increases, world commodity prices have not always fallen as rapidly as they have risen. Members may, however, like to that there have been some cases of reductions in quanta of 10 cents, instance, prices of cooking oil in consumer packs of various sizes have falls ranging from 20 cents to $1.

50. But may I suggest that in the end, it is duty of consumers themselves to be sure that the prices will fall, and by larger amounts if they so desire. 7.30 p.m.

(In Mandarin): Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Minister not answered my second question about price tagging of commodities.

Sir, these price tags have not been imposed by regulations, many cases they are the result of efforts of CASE and perhaps persuasion by the Trade Department officials. They have not been imposed by regulations. I do not think that they are of much value because prices change so rapidly that the traders can always suggest that they have not had the time yet to indicate a change of prices from previous rate to the prevailing rate.

Sir, whilst I agree with the Minister that it is the duty of the consumers to ensure that prices of commodities go down as fast as they go up, he must consider this very important point. The consumer needs commodities like bread, rice, kway teow, bee hoon and so on. These are commodities that they cannot do without. So if consumers were to boycott retailers who jack up their prices to an unreasonable extent, it is, I feel, the duty of Government to ensure that such exorbitant price increases do not occur in the market place. In more times than one the retailers have sought the permission of the Trade Department to raise the prices of commodities, and the Consumers Association of Singapore has also been involved. But at each time they came up with arguments which somehow won over the Trade Department people and left the Consumers Association in a position where it was impossible to bargain for lesser increases in prices. Therefore, I do not see any reason why, when the Trade Department notices that prices of commodities in world markets have dropped, they do not call up these retailers and CASE and come up with very strong arguments as to why the prices of these commodities - I am talking about staple commodities especially -should not fall in the same proportion as the fall in world market prices.

Sir, I made it clear that some of the price reductions have been the result of the Trade Department calling in the traders and suggesting to them that in view of the fall in food commodity prices there should be reductions in the prices of essential foods, like bread, rice and so on. The result has always been a reluctance on the part of these traders. The reason why the falls have not been in multiples of five cents is that they try to get away with as little as possible -- one cent, two cents and so on. In some cases, like cooking oil and so on, there has been a greater success on the part of our persuasion. If CASE thinks that it can help in persuading them to reduce a greater extent, we will be only too happy to accept any assistance it can give.

Sir, can we be assured of the Trade Department's assistance when we battle this matter out with the retailers?

(In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, since the Minister does not seem to be able to do anything about it, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to he allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead DAA 1105. Sir, I have received quite a number of complaints from principals of Government-aided schools that when their schools are due for expansion or reconstruction they have to apply for exemption of tax on the funds to be raised. Processing of applications is very often delayed, and approval not forthcoming. As a result prices of building materials would have gone up several times. So they have to take back their application forms and to submit new forms again. Very often contributions have been received but as they have not yet been granted a permit they cannot issue receipts for the donations. I suggest that all school building projects approved by the Ministry of Education should be granted exemption of tax on all the donations received.

Sir, the existing procedures for application for tax exemption by educational institutions in respect of donations for school building funds are fairly simple. I am not aware that there has been any difficulty in complying with them. The necessary information to be submitted includes purpose for which the funds are required, amount of donations to be collected, details of grants, if any, from the Ministry of Education towards the building project, and whether building plans have been approved by the relevant authorities. For proper control of the donations, it is also required that separate accounts be kept for tile building project and the auditors of the funds will have to be approved by the Inland Revenue Department. If the relevant information is supplied and requirements met, an application could be approved and gazetted within two weeks. I do not think therefore that I need consider the Member's suggestion that funds for all such educational buildings should be exempted from taxation. It is very necessary that there should be proper accounts kept and that these donations should be also considered for eligibility for exemption from income tax by people who make tile contributions.

(In Mandarin): Sir, it was not my intention to say that all exemptions can be dealt with in any manner. The approval of these applications is normally delayed. What I am trying to say is that all projects supported by the Ministry of Education should be exempted by the Tax Department so that the projects can be proceeded with as soon as possible and the fund-raising campaigns can be expedited.

Sir, I do not know what is the difficulty. In fact, if the Education Ministry approves the building obviously it will receive very strong support from the Education Ministry, and the Income Tax Department will, as a matter of course, approve them for tax exemption. There are so many examples of such applications and exemptions being given that I think it has now become a kind of routine. There should be no difficulty at all, if the Member for Jurong has any particular difficulty, perhaps he can get assistance either from the Education Ministry or even from my Ministry.

(In Mandarin): In view of the Minister's reply, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendments stood on the order Paper Supplement - Mr Sim Boon Woo: (7) That the sum to be allocated for Head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead DEA 1105. Mr Cheong Yuen Chee: (8) That the sum to be allocated for Head V reduced by $10 in respect of subhead DEC 1111.

Amendment (7) has been withdrawn. Amendment (8), Mr Cheong is not here. Amendment (9), Mr Cheong is not here. Amendment (9), Mr Ong.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head V reduced by $10 in respect of subhead DEE 1109. Sir, hon. Members in this House must e read in the press or in other reports t prices of real estate, especially in respect of residential properties, have e down tremendously during the last months or so. In some instances the value has dropped by as much as 30% even 40%, so much so that there is w a glut in housing stocks in the market. However, the property assessments which have been revalued upwards the past, corresponding to the increase property prices before 1974, have named at its peak. Many people have said that this is like an oral thermometer used by nurses in clinics and hospitals measure the temperature of a patient. goes up and up, registering only the highest reading, but never comes down less treated with a violent shake, rely a 30% or 40% drop in property ices is rather violent by any measure. Therefore, I wonder if the Minister could inform the House whether he has y intention to adjust the property assessment correspondingly downwards view of the current property market situation.

Sir, the Member for m Keat has been talking of capital values and the drop has been in capital values. The annual value of a property, however, is based on rent, the annual .value being the gross amount at which e property can reasonably be expected be let from year to year. These rents have not fallen, although the prices of properties may have declined in certain localities. In some cases, indeed, they have risen. So there is no justification for a general reduction in the annual values of properties. In specific instances, it may be that rents have fallen, it is therefore open to the owner in any individual casa to object when the Valuation List for the ensuing year is open for public inspection annually in August. The tax system allows annual values to be revised regularly both upwards and downwards. So I would suggest that the violent shaking be applied by the owners of the properties.

Sir, unfortunately appeals have rarely been successful. Despite the rather disappointing reply, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. 7.45 p.m.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for head V be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead CAA 8201. Sir, under this amendment I would like to ask the Minister several questions relating to Jurong Town Corporation and other relevant matters. I have to raise them under this subhead because I cannot find any other item in the whole Estimates pertaining to the subject of my enquiry. Sir, in Jurong Town there are two types of fiats, the standard, low-cost flats and the executive flats. The low-cost flats are like the HDB flats, and the purchasers of these flats can make use of their CPF contributions. Purchasers of the executive fiats, however, cannot make use of their CPF' contributions to buy them. The Housing and Urban Development Company is now building middle-class type of fiats for the middle income group and, to my knowledge, applicants can make use of their CPF contributions to purchase these fiats. Therefore, I would like to ask the Minister whether the authority concerned will allow the applicants to make use of their CPF contributions to buy the executive flats in Jurong Town. The second question is in regard to sports and recreational facilities in Jurong Town. I know that one of the aims of JTC is to provide social arid recreational facilities for the people in Jurong Town, particularly the workers and residents. In Jurong Town some sports facilities are available and these include a stadium, a football field and a basketball court, etc. I would like to know whether certain community organisations in Jurong Town which have been registered with the Registrar of Societies can make use of these facilities and whether their applications for the use of these sports facilities will be favourably considered or given certain concessions. We all know that the rentals or fees charged for such facilities are rather high, and since these organisations cannot afford to pay such high fees the sports facilities will be hardly used and will be just like a white elephant. Originally I have no intention to raise my third question here, but now I feel I am duty-bound to raise it. At this time last year I had also raised the same question hoping that tile Minister could supervise the JTC in its work. This concerns tile collection and disposal of rubbish in Jurong Town. I do not know whether it is because of the inability of the JTC to employ the required number of labour to clear up the rubbish or whether it is because of the increase in the number of structures or residents there that the rubbish is not being collected daily. On many occasions rubbish is piled up for several days at a stretch. It has not been collected and sent to the rubbish disposal dump. This is detrimental to the health of the residents and I have received a number of complaints from them. I would like to ask the Minister whether he has been supervising the JTC in regard to this matter. I hope I need not have to raise the same matter again next year. I also hope that the Minister can take suitable measures to deal with this matter. The fourth question relates to Neighbourhood II of Jurong Town. It is called the Boon Lay Garden Estate. The design of this estate is rather odd. It was only designed for residential purposes. There was no provision for shopping facilities and so the authorities have to modify the residential premises for use as shops. Even if groceries, clinics and other types of shops are now available, there is still a shortage of a particular type of shop, namely, the eating house. Without an eating house it is rather inconvenient to the residents, especially single workers. It would be most difficult for them to go anywhere to get food. So they will have to travel to the 13 1/2m.s. Jurong to get their food. I would like to ask the Minister whether he can remedy this situation.

Sir, the purchaser of an executive flat in Jurong Town is not at present allowed to use his CPF to purchase the fiat. I realise that purchasers of HUDC fiats have only recently been allowed to use their CPF contributions. I have not yet considered whether purchasers of the executive flats in Jurong Town should be given the same privilege. I think there are certain conditions in the HUDC scheme which would be quite different from the JTC one. At present, CPF money can only be used for the purchase of low-cost fiats in Jurong. Regarding tile second question on the hiring of sports facilities, these are already subsidised by the Corporation as the football field, sports stadium, swimming pool and other courts are built at high cost with public money. I understand that the Corporation follows the similar practice on the comparative rates set by other bodies which provide for concession rates for schools and registered sports bodies but they charge higher rates for commercial users. On the third question regarding refuse collection from blocks of fiats to the bin centre, I understand that this is now being carried out every day by a contractor appointed by the Jurong Town Corporation. A competent contractor was appointed recently to provide the service and with effective supervision the work is being carried out efficiently. The refuse removal from the bin centre to the dumping ground is carried out by the Ministry of the Environment, and this is also done daily. On the fourth question regarding coffee shops and eating houses, I understand that in the residential area Neighbourhood I, which is virtually completed, there is provision for eight eating shops together with four other hawker centres. In Neighbourhood Ii, where about 3,500 fiats have been completed out of a total of about 10,000 fiats, provision is being made for 136 shops of which about ten will be set aside for eating houses. In addition, a hawker centre with a total accommodation of 162 stalls will be ready within the next three to four months.

(In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, concerning the use of CPF contributions for the put-chase of executive flats in Jurong Town, I hope the Minister will reconsider this matter seriously. If the HUDC has a scheme governing such privileges, I hope the JTC will also apply the same regulations in the case of their executive fiats. I do not know whether the Minister' will agree to this.

Sir, the JTC executive flats are not purely for our citizens. The idea was that the executives living in Jurong should be enabled to apply. So the conditions of the JTC executive fiats are quite different from those of the HUDC. However, I will be prepared to look into this matter to see if anything can be done.

(In Mandarin): Sir, in view of the assurance given by the Minister, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $647,050,890 for Head V ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $707,110,500 for Head V ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Therefore Mr Deputy Speaker left time Chair of time Committee and took time Chair of time House.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Main and Development Estimates of Expenditure for the financial year 1st April, 1975 to 31st March, 1976 and as leave to sit again tomorrow.

So be it.

Resolved, "That Parliament do now adjourn."-[Mr Hon Sui Sen]. Adjourned accordingly at Eight o'clock p.m.