Hansard, 1992-03-12

Order. On behalf of hon. Members, I welcome Senator The Honourable Kerry Sibraa, President of the Senate of Australia, who is present in our gallery. [Applause].

Order read for consideration in Committee of Supply [2nd Allotted Day].

Head U (cont.) - Resumption of Debate on Question [11th March, 1992], "That the sum to be allocated for Head U be reduced by $10 in respect of Code UI 5200 of the Development Estimates." - [Dr Tan Cheng Bock]. Question again proposed.

Sir, yesterday, before the moment of interruption, I was saying that I supported the HDB's sale of shop scheme. I indicated yesterday that the means by which the HDB is selling shops is a fair scheme. It allows the shop tenants to buy the shop at the HDB's valuation price or they can establish the price by means of a public tender. On top of that, they will have the first right and a discount based on their length of use of the premises. This is a reasonable way to sell the shops. I also indicated that the scheme seems to be unfair in the sense that a great majority of Singaporeans are deprived of the right to buy the shops. These shops are offered to a select group of people and they comprise maybe about 16,000 people at the moment. Nevertheless, having said that, the shop tenants have done a lot for HDB estates. They have contributed to our nation-building. They have also contributed to improving the amenities of the housing estates. In view of this, I am sympathetic towards what the HDB is doing and I can say that I support what they are now doing by selling the shops to HDB shop tenants at reasonable prices. Sir, there is a third option which I want to talk about. The present scheme allows a shopkeeper who does not wish to buy the shop to continue to rent from the HDB. Since HDB is prepared to sell the shop, I wonder if HDB will modify the scheme to allow the particular shop unit to be put up for tender. This unit will be tendered and sold with tenancy, which means that the new owner will take up the shop with tenancy. Presently, I do not think the scheme, as it stands, will cause hardship to the shop tenants. There is already a report in the Business Times today which says that an investment company, formed by a Hong Kong medical group, is now on the look-out. They have advertised in the papers and they are prepared to buy the shops to form a chain store group. I am sure, in time to come, many such private sector groups will come forward and this will alleviate some of the problems that may be caused to the tenants because they can sell these shops at a discount, make some profit on it and perhaps, in some cases, even lease back the shop. As to my question whether the HDB will open up the tender for those who refuse to buy the shops, will the Minister consider this, Sir?

Sir, I would like the Minister to reconsider the policy of not allowing Singaporeans to rent 3-room flats. This policy is already 10 years old, introduced in 1982, and I recall that when it was introduced it was meant to encourage Singaporeans to own their own homes. Since 10 years have passed, I think the policy has achieved its objective. Those who can buy would have bought, and those who cannot buy, they are the ones I am thinking of today, they are the ones who will be left back in their 1- or 2-room flats. These are the ones who come to you, all of us, in fact, and say, " An hon. Member: What does it mean?

It means "We are poor people. We do not have CPF. How can we buy our own homes?" Sir, I think we ought to do something for them. When they first moved into these homes, they had no trouble because they were young, the children were young, no space constraints, but today the children have grown up, they become adults - four, five or six of them - and conditions become cramped, the environment charged, perpetually unbearable and especially when a little conducive environment is required for recuperation or for someone who wants to study. The question is: what can we do for these people? There is something we can do for them. After all, we are already opening these flats to Malaysians, foreigners. My point is that the foreigners come here not as whole families but they come as disparate individuals. They do not need the 3-room flats. They can take the 2-room flats and Singaporeans can be given the comfort of the 3-room flats and the children can grow up in a better environment and we all benefit but, please, not at market rate.

Sir, I would like to make two suggestions to the Minister for National Development. The first concerns fire insurance for the HDB flats. In Singapore, more than 90% of our population live in HDB flats. In the event of a fire, the residents would suffer great losses. Although there are not many cases of fire in HDB flats, there has been a recent case of fire at Bishan East, which started from the ground floor of a block of HDB flats and caused damage to a number of flats on the lower floors of the block. In the case of a private property, if it is mortgaged to the bank for a housing loan, the property has to be insured against fire. In order that residents of HDB flats are also protected so that they will not suffer monetary losses, I feel that the Government should encourage them to take up fire insurance in respect of their HDB flats. However, the insurance premium should be kept very low, because the risk of a HDB flat catching fire is very minimal. I suggest that the HDB and the CPF Board work out a scheme to include all the HDB flats under a group fire insurance coverage, and to allow the owners to pay the insurance premium through automatic deduction from their CPF accounts. My other suggestion concerns the placing of tables and chairs along the corridors outside the coffeeshops in HDB estates. We all know that Singaporeans are fond of having their meals in the open air or spacious places. However, most coffeeshops in HDB estates are hot and cramped, and cannot accommodate many customers. Normally, the coffeeshop owners would place some tables and chairs at the corridor outside their shops during lunch time and in the evening. So long as there is no hindrance to the free flow of pedestrian traffic, I urge the Government to be sympathetic to these coffeeshop owners. As a long-term solution, the HDB should lay down some guidelines or regulations to enable the coffeeshop owners to make use of the open space outside their shops to do more business and make more money.

Sir, I am not speaking.

( In Mandarin): Sir, I just wish to raise three questions with the Minister for National Development. The first question concerns the upgrading of HDB flats. We all know that the HDB estates are facing the problem of aging, after all these years. Some older HDB estates were completed at a time when there was acute shortage of public housing. It was inevitable that there were shortcomings in terms of design and facilities. Priority was given to Toa Payoh, Marine Parade and Ang Mo Kio in the HDB's upgrading programme. I understand that some older HDB estates such as Bukit Ho Swee, Queenstown, Beach Road, Circuit Road and the old Punggol housing estate are aging very rapidly, and are therefore more urgently in need of upgrading. However, the residents in these estates are still waiting eagerly and anxiously for their turn to come, and wondering whether the day will actually come. What are the criteria that the Government uses in deciding to give priority to these selected estates in the upgrading programme? The second question concerns the high density of HDB flats in the latest building programme. For new HDB flats which are being built near the Tampines MRT station, Lorong 3 Geylang, and Toa Payoh Lorong 2, the distance between one block and another is very close. In recent years, the selling prices of HDB flats have been getting higher and higher. At the same time, the density of HDB flats being built on each piece of land is also getting higher and higher. Those who live in HDB flats are losing their privacy in their daily living. Ventilation is also not so ideal and sometimes one can feel that it is getting very hot and stuffy. The sky that HDB dwellers can enjoy from their flats is getting smaller and smaller. For this reason, I would like to ask what is the plot ratio the HDB is using for the construction of its flats nowadays, and since when has the HDB been adopting this present plot ratio. What is the plot ratio approved by the URA in respect of private apartments in the rural area? The third question concerns HDB's plan to sell its shophouses in the HDB estates. Will the sale of these HDB shophouses imperceptibly increase the burden of the shop operators, especially at a time when the economic outlook is uncertain? To these shop operators, this is adding one more straw that may break the camel's back, so to speak! Furthermore, the property market now is facing a downturn. The HDB has no more excuse to increase the rent for the shops. If the shop operators have no alternative but to buy the shophouses, and if the property prices continue to decline, then would they not be suffering losses? Has the Government any better measures to help the shop operators purchase these shophouses without having to increase their financial burden?

Sir, the proposed scheme to sell shophouses to sitting tenants is an attractive proposition. It allows the tenants a chance to decide whether they want to buy over the shophouse, rent it to another operator and make long-term plans once the uncertainty over the shop rentals has been removed. One of the key factors involved is the selling price and we have been assured by the Minister that the selling price in each case would depend on the characteristics of the shophouse, including location and the amount of business that the shop is likely to attract. I would like to ask the authorities concerned whether they are prepared to allow a second opinion in setting the price. In other words, whether a panel of valuers or assessors will be allowed to independently determine what the selling price in each case should be. This will help remove some doubts on the basis of computation of the selling price. After all, we would like to assist as many of the tenants as possible to be able to afford the selling price and to continue to operate on the premises. 12.45 pm The second question I would like to ask is whether the proposed memorandum of lease will contain some of the conditions in the existing memorandum, in particular there is a clause which says that in the case of a fire, the compensation money will go to the HDB and not to the shophouse operator. Would the same condition continue under the new memorandum of lease?

Thank you, Sir, for allowing me to speak. I would like to speak on resettlement under Amendment (4). Do I need to move that amendment?

That amendment has already been disposed of.

I would like to speak on resettlement.

We are not discussing resettlement. That has been disposed of already. We are now on HDB flats and shops.

Sir, on a point of order. Mr Chiam did not file an amendment. And if you allow him to speak, I presume you are changing the rules of debate.

Dr Tan, you were not in the House yesterday when I made the decision regarding Mr Chiam. Could you please resume your seat? Dr Tan Cheng Bock resumed his seat.

Mr Chiam, would you like to make your speech on HDB matters?

I am not speaking on HDB shops. But I would like to speak on resettlement.

The amendment has been disposed of already, Mr Chiam. We are not on resettlement any more.

I note that the hon. Member for Nee Soon South skipped this subject. He did not speak on it, although he had submitted an amendment. Therefore it has not really been disposed of.

Yes, but the amendment cannot be moved now. We have already past that amendment. So if you have nothing to raise under HDB matters, I will now call the Minister to reply.

Yes.

Sir, I would like to take the questions raised by hon. Members in the following sequence. First, I would like to touch on price increases in HDB flats. Then I would like to deal with the sale of shops policy, and cover the other points raised by Members. First, on price increases. Dr Tan Cheng Bock asks how wages, private property prices, HDB prices and resale prices have moved over the last 10 to 20 years. Fortunately, we had an adjournment, so we were able to do some research last night. Over the last 20 years, the average monthly income has increased by almost five times from $330 in 1972 to $1,700 in 1991. During that period, the sale prices of HDB flats increased just over four times. So HDB prices have moved slower than monthly income. If we take a shorter time-frame of 10 years, the average annual increase in HDB flat prices was about 7.8% per year. The resale prices averaged about 8.6% a year; private property prices were much higher, averaging 11% over the last 10 years. So both HDB prices in the primary as well as secondary markets have moved slower than private property prices. But in comparing prices, we should be careful to compare like with like - HDB flats that were built 10, 20 years ago are very different from what are being produced today. Let me explain how HDB does its costing and pricing of flats, because I think that will be useful to all Members here. Basically, there are several components in HDB costs. First, land cost. HDB buys land from the Government at market prices. Second, construction cost. HDB puts out its flats for open tender and contractors bid for them, and these prices are advertised in the newspapers. Third, HDB introduces new designs, new improvements, and the quantity surveyors in HDB cost these out. So new flats now have got design features, better finishes, and these are all costed. Finally, there are the professional fees that have to be added to all these costs. So maybe it is more important to look at the last four years. In the last four years, land cost has gone up by 73%. Construction cost has gone up by 48%. Prices in the private sector reflect all these changes and private sector property prices have gone up by 58%. In the same four-year period, HDB prices have only gone up by 37%. If you compare this with wages that have moved up between 9.2% and 9.8% in the last four years, you will see that HDB prices have kept in pace with wages. Therefore, people are still able to afford HDB prices.

Sir, before the Minister of State moves on, can I seek a clarification from him regarding prices? How does the income of Singaporeans correlate with HDB flat prices? And does the average income, which he cited, really indicate the income of the middle and lower income Singaporeans?

The Member always anticipates the next segment of our explanation. As the Minister for National Development alluded yesterday, really the fact that HDB prices have lagged behind total development cost may give little solace to Singaporeans. HDB in pricing its flats also looks at affordability. In the example that the Minister cited yesterday, if you take a couple with a household income of $1,800, if they work two and a half years, which is very likely before they get married at the age of 27 or 28, they can easily pay for the 20% downpayment through their CPF savings. The monthly CPF that they earn can easily pay for the mortgage instalment of a 4-room flat. So an average couple earning $1,800 can well afford a 4-room flat without any cash payments. All this will be paid for through their CPF. If you go down to a 3-room flat which costs about $40,000 in the primary and the secondary market, you can see that this is also well within the affordability of a household income of $1,000. Some Singaporeans again may not be happy with that kind of approach and say, "Look, really, are we getting more from the Government?" If you look at the Government grant per flat over the last three to four years, that has increased from $20,900 in 1988 to $44,000 in 1991. Therefore, for every flat that HDB builds, the Government has to give HDB a grant to defray the cost of construction which has increased over the last four years from $21,000 to $44,000. So this is the actual direct cash grant that Government has given to HDB owners. Even though cost has gone up, we have kept the prices affordable and, as a result, Government grant has increased. Let me now talk about shops. The Minister for National Development announced the terms for the sale of HDB-tenanted shops last week. I need not go through the main terms. I just want to say that Mr Chng Hee Kok is absolutely right. The terms of the sale are very generous. If each shop is given an average discount of $40,000, then the 12,000 shops to be sold would mean Government giving away $480 million. In addition, the 4,000 shops that will not be sold because the flats above are scheduled for redevelopment, under the present policy, each shop will be given an ex gratia compensation of $38,000. That is another $150 million. In total, the Government is giving away $630 million. You may say this is very uncharacteristic of the Government to give away such large sums of money. Why should the Government do so? How does the Government justify spending public funds in favour of such a small group? The answer is very simple. The Government wants to assist in the restructuring of the retail sector. We feel that the retail sector has to be restructured because the value-added today is low, the catchment is changing, the pattern of demand is shifting. If we invest and bring about a more competitive retail sector, the whole economy will benefit. We will see more productive use of our limited manpower resources, more value-added, more economic growth. Therefore, we are prepared to assist in the restructuring by providing these discount and cash grants. The restructuring of the retail sector would take place, whether the Government assists or not. It is already taking place today. If I may just quote you statistics. Today, some shopowners find that they cannot compete and, therefore, they assign their shops to somebody else who can do better. When they do so, the new shopowner takes over the shop at market rent, but you and I know that when the previous shopowner hands over to the new shopowner, he gets some goodwill money from the new shopowner. The numbers differ. Some say it is $40,000; some say it is $80,000; some give even bigger numbers. So the market rent that HDB charges is reasonable enough that a new shopowner thinks that he can still do business, pay the current market rent, and still give goodwill money to the previous shopowner. This happens in about 10% of our tenancy each year. The Government could let the restructuring take its natural course in this way. Let the more inefficient shopowners be taken over by the more efficient shopowners. But the readjustment will be long and painful. For example, some shopkeepers, in postponing the inevitable, pull in their family members to help out in the shop. Young able-bodied men are dragged in to run the business in the old-fashioned way. Unless they change, they will continue to be uncompetitive. That is the reason why the Government has decided to step in to assist in the restructuring process by drawing up the Retail Sector Development Plan and by selling the shops at a discount to the shopkeepers. Let us keep the focus in mind. The aim is to help in the restructuring. If we keep this objective, then I think the principles that we follow can be easily understood. The first principle is if we want to help in the restructuring, we will sell as many as possible. That is why we are selling 12,000 shops. The 4,000 shops that we are not selling is because the flats above will be redeveloped. The second principle, we will sell as fast as we can. That is our purpose. We want to restructure, we will sell as fast as we can. So when people ask for a quicker pace of sale, that is entirely in line with Government's thinking. But we must be realistic. Previously, HDB sold on the average of 200 shops a year. We plan to sell 1,200 in the first year. This is already a big jump, but we are prepared to go even faster. That is why we are targeting the sale to be finished within seven to ten years. If we can do faster, the Government will obviously do so, because our objective is to restructure the sector. The third principle, if we are going to restructure the sector, surely we must price the shops at market prices by valuers. Then the market conditions will take its effect. The fourth principle, why discount proportional to the number of years? That is because we think the older shops need more assistance in the restructuring. So we tailor the assistance programme to favour the older shops. The fifth principle, why are we only allowing one shop per tenant, something which Dr Tan Cheng Bock raised. I think the explanation is quite clear. If the tenant is able to own many shops, I do not think we should give him discount for every shop that he owns. We should help him only in one shop, and not in all the shops. This is because we want to underline that the sale of shops is not an entitlement, it is not a subsidy, it is an assistance to the restructuring programme. Another concern expressed by Dr Tan Cheng Bock is what happens to shops that are sold later. There is a perception that these shops will be disadvantaged. Let me try to explain. Today, 40% of the shop tenants pay less than 50% of the market rent, and the rents are going up at a very measured pace. It is not moving up to market rent very quickly. Even though these shops would be sold much later, these shopkeepers will continue to enjoy far below market rents during the interim period before the shops will be sold. So it is not true that these shops will be disadvantaged. Dr Tan also suggested that we should consider the rental as part payment for the sale of shops later on. I think this is not possible, especially for these shops that are paying very far below market rent. Because their rent is not even covering the cost or the rate of return of the capital of the shop, how do you set aside part of the rent to help pay for the shop? 1.00 pm Mr Chng Hee Kok gave his suggestion that we should put up the sale on an encumbered basis, so that more Singaporeans can participate in the sale of shops programme. In the initial stages, we want to reassure the shopkeepers that we are not chasing them out. So we have made the terms very generous to them. They can either buy, or if they are not prepared to buy, they can continue to rent. If we say, "Look, if you don't buy, we are going to put it up for sale", then their terms of tenancy on an encumbered basis may be short-lived. For the transition period, we want to give this assurance to our shopkeepers that they have several options, either buy, or if they cannot afford to buy, they can continue to rent, and remain in business. I think that pretty well covers most of the points relating to shops. Let me now cover the other points. Mr Eugene Yap asked HDB to consider opening up 3-room flats to the public for rental. HDB is prepared to consider that, but we must keep our focus, our objective in mind. The objective of making Singapore a home-owning society still remains. Although, today, we are 91%, we can still go further. The Government has announced that it is looking at plans to help people in the 1- and 2-room rental flats to help own 3- and 4S flats. So we will announce this programme to help the lower-income groups to own flats, but, of course, we are not dogmatic about it. If there is a group that still, despite all this special assistance programme, cannot afford to own a 3-room flat, the Government is prepared to consider renting 3-room flats to this small group of people. Mr Leong Horn Kee gave two suggestions - fire insurance and guidelines for coffeeshops. In terms of fire insurance, we agree with him entirely. It is a good practice that owners of HDB flats take up fire insurance. This happens in the private sector. We will want to encourage that and that is why HDB is working with the CPF Board to try and extend the present mortgage reducing insurance to cover as a fire insurance as well. So it is not just a life cover, but also a fire cover. We hope to be able to work out with CPF a scheme that will allow a checking-off system. On guideliness for coffeeshops, we agree that there should be guidelines to help coffeeshop operators determine how they can place chairs outside their coffeeshops. There are two concerns. One is that it must not inhibit pedestrian movement, and the second concern is environmental concern, the waste that necessarily spills from such operations must be well contained. That is why the conditions under which such shops are allowed to operate require them not to hinder pedestrian flow as well as some ways of waste disposal. Let me now turn to Mr Low Thia Khiang. He asked for the criteria for the selection of demonstration precincts. Because these are demonstration precincts, the Government selected the six precincts according to the following criteria: First, they must be old and therefore need upgrading, thera ore the precincts are all 10 to 15 years old. Secondly, we want them to disperse in Singapore so that people can see them being upgraded. Thirdly, they are in strategic locations and you can see them at key road junctions. Fourthly, the precincts we select have a diversity of rental, 3-room, 4-room and 5-room flats. Older flats other than those in the demonstration precincts will be considered in the subsequent phases of the upgrading. Mr Low also asked about the new flat spacing. The plot ratio that HDB uses for its development is 2.

5. Private property plot ratio ranges from 0.5 to 2.5 to 2.7, depending on the density. He also asked that in the sale of shops that there should be no increase in rental, and that I have earlier explained on the sale of shops.

Order. It is guillotine time.

I thank the Minister of State for his reply and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $348,989,600 for Head U ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $4,068,436,000 for Head U ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head M -

Head M - Ministry of the Environment. Dr John Chen, Amendment No. (1). You have 12 minutes for this discussion.

Sir, I beg to move, That the total sum to be allocated for Head M of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100. Sir, the Ministry of the Environment has published a draft proposal of Singapore's Green Plan. The Plan maps out our long-term policy directions towards preserving, protecting and enhancing the environment, and seeks to make Singapore a model city with a high environmental standard. Many developed countries have formulated their own green plan and introduced programmes and legislation to check the environmental threat brought about by rapid economic development. Their governments' actions were induced by the green movement which started in the 70s and gathered momentum in the 80s. And because of this, what I call "bottom up phenomenon", their governments' programmes have been able to receive wide support from their environmentally conscious population. In Singapore, our Government has always been sensitive to the need for effective environmental protection while we pursue economic development. Unlike Hong Kong, we push for strict pollution control regulations and their stringent enforcement in our industries. Our people have, therefore, never suffered from serious environmental problems. But this has also resulted in a less environmentally conscious population. As such, the Government has to take a pro-active role in raising the level of environmental consciousness of our people by activities, such as the annual Clean and Green Week and other campaigns. I wish to commend the Government for proposing the Green Plan to achieve our long-term vision of a model Environment City. It is not an easy task as it deals with our total environment - air, water, land, noise, public health and the requirement of a good environmental infrastructure. Sir, public education is a critical element of the Plan and is perhaps the most difficult part. Without public participation and support, the Plan can never be successful. It is, therefore, important that an appropriate theme be given to the Plan. The proposed theme is "Towards an Environment City". I feel that the words "Environment City" do not convey to Singaporeans the meaning which they can readily identify with. Although the word "environment" is used as an adjective here, it is too neutral to convey a strong and positive meaning for a quality environment. Since Singaporeans are already familiar with the Clean and Green Week, and the word "green" has now acquired a universal meaning, may I ask the Minister to consider changing the theme to "Towards a Green City"? I also wish to ask the Minister for his assessment of the current programmes to educate the public on the environment and what other new programmes or legislation his Ministry plans to introduce, and when. It is stated in the Green Plan that, and I quote: "We will reach out to schools, the grassroots, corporations and the media and develop long-term plans and strategies to promote environmentalism and green consumerism." May I know what concrete plans does the Ministry have and whether more innovative ways of educating the public through the media, such as the use of video programmes, Teleview, or the Green Hotline, to disseminate the pro-green messages? The proposal to introduce a "Green Labelling" system to assist consumers in identifying green products and to encourage them to be more environmentally friendly in their purchasing behaviour is a good one. If the scheme is to work, it must have the support of manufacturers and consumers. It must be credible, ie, consumers must be confident that products have been scientifically assessed to be least environmentally damaging, manufacturers must see commercial advantage to themselves in using the scheme, and the procedures for obtaining label must be straightforward and not time-consuming. There must also be extensive consultation with the interested groups - consumers, manufacturers and even environmentalists - when devising product criteria. Will the Minister enlighten us on the approach the Ministry will take and whether incentives will be given to encourage both the manufacturers and consumers to support the scheme? Sir, the Plan has not examined the cost implications. For example, what will be the required direct expenditure by the Government as well as the industries, and indirect expenditure, such as tax incentives for each specific programme proposed, to achieve the overall vision of the Plan. Can the Minister please explain?

Dr Chen, we are running out of time.

Sir, there are some other topics in the Plan which I will raise later in the other cuts that I have.

Sir, I join my colleague, Dr John Chen, in congratulating the Ministry of the Environment for coming up with a Green Plan, a long-term vision to make Singapore a model city. Singapore, in the future, will be a nation with high standards of public health and a quality environment. We certainly look forward to the day when Singaporeans can live graciously with clean air, clean land, clean water and a quiet living environment. However, Sir, the task ahead is not an easy one. In the implementation of the Green Plan, all Government Ministries will be actively involved and their policies will ensure the protection and preservation of our environment. Singaporeans, generally, welcome this Green Plan and they want a quality living environment. However, many will ask about the cost of achieving this good living environment. Will this Green Plan lead to a higher cost of living for Singaporeans? For example, under this Green Plan, the Ministry will promote products with green labels to show that they are environment-friendly. People may complain that this green label products may become expensive and, ultimately, add to their daily expenses. Another example is the promotion of recycled paper in schools, Government Ministries and private companies. At present, the cost of recycled paper is higher than the usual one. Do we have the technology now to recycle paper at a cheaper cost? I suggest that the Ministry of the Environment, together with private institutions and enterprises, conduct research in this matter and come out with the production technology in producing cheaper recycled paper. Sir, in achieving our long-term goal of a Clean and Green City, I hope the Ministry of the Environment will take into account the cost factor. We should erase the consumers' worries of high cost in our move towards an Environment City. Next, I move on to public education on environment awareness. Apart from educating our young in schools, the Ministry must conduct a continuous public education programme for the masses through our grassroots organisations. We need to educate our people on the importance of a clean and green environment. Over the past few years, our grassroots organisations have been actively involved in the Clean and Green Week activity, normally held in November. I wish to ask the Minister whether his Ministry intends to get our grassroots organisations involved in the Green Plan and, if so, how is it going to be done? How can the Ministry assist these grassroots organisations organise activities to make residents realise the importance of taking care of our environment? 1.15 pm

Mr Chairman, Sir, I would like to thank the two hon. Members of the GPC for Environment for speaking on Singapore's Green Plan and for their support for the Plan. Sir, for the information of this House, the final version of the Green Plan will be published by June this year. This version will incorporate some of the views and suggestions that we received from grassroots organisations and from members of the public. My Ministry will be forming a Steering Committee with representatives from the various Ministries to oversee the formulation of the detailed action plan, and this work is expected to be completed by the middle of 1993. The implementation of some aspects of the Green Plan, however, is already under way and these include, amongst other things, the phasing out of the use of ozone depleting substances, the upgrading of control of odour from our sewage treatment works, developing facilities to cope with an ever increasing amount of solid waste generated and the minimising of waste generation. Sir, the total cost of implementing the Green Plan cannot be quantified at this point of time until all the action plans have been formulated. But suffice for me to say at this stage that the major cost of the Plan will be in infrastructural developments relating to the upgrading of our sewerage system, our solid waste management system and, of course, the development of aesthetic water bodies. And all these will cost about $3 billion. Sir, I agree fully with Dr John Chen that the term "Environment City", as used in the Green Plan, may not entirely convey the meaning intended. You see, Sir, the city that we envision is one which would not only be a city with a very high standard of public health and quality environment, but also a city with people who are actively concerned for their environment. In other words, characteristics that the world has learned to associate with the word "green". Therefore, his suggestion of changing "Environment City" to "Green City" is not a bad idea at all, and I am prepared to consider. On the subject of green labelling, the objective of course is to help consumers identify environment-friendly products. The scheme is voluntary and companies are at liberty to choose whether or not to participate in the scheme. Initially, the scheme will cover products that can be recycled and reused, eg, recycled paper. Of course, in the long term, we will extend the scheme to cover other products to promote energy efficiency, to promote the use of biodegradable materials and so on. The criteria for awarding a green label will be drawn up by an advisory committee comprising experts from agencies like SISIR, CASE, Singapore Manufacturers' Association, just to name a few. These are people with the expert knowledge on the manufacture, distribution, usage and disposal of products. With regard to pricing, we in the Ministry of the Environment do not expect green label products to be significantly more expensive than the ordinary products. True, Sir, fees have got to be levied, but these fees will be deliberately kept low in order to encourage participation. The fees will only be enough to cover the scheme's operating cost. The fee will be in the form of an application fee and an annual fee for the right to carry the green label. As Encik Ibrahim Othman has pointed out, public education is an important element of the Green Plan. And it is for this reason, Sir, that my Ministry is constantly seeking creative and innovative ways to educate the public. For example, we have used SBC's "Kidstext" to highlight to children the global environmental concerns, resource conservation and also waste minimization. This programme has been very well received. We will produce teaching aids for schools in the form of slides, videotapes and also computer games. ENV will also be organising a jamboree in November this year for school environmental clubs. With regard to grassroots participation in the Green Plan, as I mentioned earlier on, we have received inputs from the two public forums that the Ministry organised and also from letters written to us giving their views on the Green Plan. Some of the views will be incorporated in the final version of the Green Plan which we will publish in June this year.

Dr Chen, do you like to withdraw your amendment?

Sir, may I ask the Minister a question? If the manufacturers have to pay a slightly higher fee compared to a normal product, and if Singaporeans are not as environmentally conscious as the people in the West, how does he ensure that the scheme will be successful? Would the Minister consider incentives to be given?

The question of incentives will be considered. But the more important thing is to inculcate public awareness through public education, which I think Dr John Chen has agreed. And he is expecting the Ministry to mount more public education programmes to inculcate awareness on the Green Plan.

You are putting the cart before the horse. Until such time when the population is environmentally conscious, you need to provide some incentives for them to buy your green products. So I hope the Minister would consider introducing incentives.

We will consider it.

Thank you. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment No. (2), Dr Chen. Could I just remind you that we are falling behind schedule?

Sir, I thought we have until 2.25 pm.

Yes, but you are not the only speaker.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head M be reduced by $10 in respect of Code MC 1500 of the Main Estimates. Sir, Government's decision to stop building wet markets 10 years ago was reversed recently with its announcement to build two modern new wet markets in Serangoon New Town and Simei. This review in its policy was welcomed by many shoppers who prefer to shop at wet markets rather than dry ones, because wet markets offer a wider range of market produce at cheaper prices and also enable them to better assess the freshness of the items. I remember these points were well argued by Members of this House in the last Parliament, a brilliant example being Dr Hong Hai, the former MP for Chai Chee. I am glad the Government has now reviewed its decision. However, if the original rationale for not building new wet markets is partly an environmental one, then how will these environmental problems be solved to ensure that the new wet markets comply with the required standards of public health. For example, will the design of the new wet markets ensure that they will be clean, dry and well ventilated? Will standards be set for the display of produce to ensure that the aisles are not cluttered? Will enforcement be taken to ensure that these conditions are maintained? Sir, would the Minister also tell us whether the Ministry will improve the old wet markets, either renovating them or rebuilding them? If the improvement requires relocation of stallholders, will the Ministry give preferential treatment to the displaced hawkers? Or will they have to bid for stalls in the replacement markets?

Sir, I wish to speak on the phasing out of poultry slaughtering in wet markets. More than 100 stallholders have been affected in these first two phases. Improvements have been made in the cleanliness of our wet markets as a result of this. Residents living around these wet markets are also happy because nuisances caused by smell and noise, especially in the early morning hours, have been eliminated. Consumers can only buy dressed poultry in those wet markets involved in this phasing out programme. I wish to ask the Minister whether his Ministry conducts checks to ensure that dressed poultry are freshly slaughtered. Perhaps the Ministry may have imposed compulsory date tagging for dressed poultry. Even then, how can we ensure that those dates are not erased by unscrupulous stallholders? We must protect the consumers and give them their money's worth when they buy dressed poultry. Next, I move on to Muslim consumers who want to buy halal chicken. How are they to know whether the dressed poultry have been slaughtered in accordance with halal rules at the slaughter houses? How can the Ministry ensure that slaughter houses with permitted licences slaughter the chicken the halal way? If there is a tag to say that it is halal, how then can we ensure its authenticity?

Sir, I just want to touch on two points: one, wet markets and, two, poultry slaughtering in wet markets. Sir, it is indeed good news to many Singaporeans, especially housewives, that the Government has decided to change this "No More Wet Markets" policy. The Government is now reintroducing wet markets in the new town centres. In fact, my residents in Changi, particularly those living at Simei Estate, are also happy that a new market and 29 more shops are to be built in the Estate for their shopping convenience. Sir, since 1983, when the Government stopped building wet markets, many supermarkets like NTUC Fairprice and Econminimart, for example, and other mini and dry markets have mushroomed all over Singapore. However, these so-called modern marketing facilities, though conveniently located and with cleaner environment, have never been able to replace the traditional wet markets. The general public still prefers the traditional wet markets. The reason for this is not difficult to understand. Firstly, the wet markets not only offer a wide range of market produce to consumers at cheaper prices, the produce sold is fresher too. Secondly, more often than not, the transactions in a mini or dry market are usually cold and impersonal. On the other hand, the dealings in a wet market are usually warm and friendly. Stallholders are courteous. Regular customers are often addressed by names. One must not forget that not only can customers practise their bargaining power in a wet market, they are even given reasonable price reductions, if they happen to be regularly patronising the same stalls. Although the reintroduction of wet markets is to be welcomed, the Government must ensure that the new markets to be built should match with time. They should not only be functional but also modern looking and blend well aesthetically with the surroundings. Stringent measures should also be taken to keep them clean and pollution free at all times. Sir, while on the subject of wet markets, the second point I want to speak on is poultry slaughtering in wet markets, and I have a few questions to ask the Minister. In how many such markets has the slaughtering of poultry been phased out so far? Has any survey been conducted to find out consumer acceptance of abattoir slaughtered poultry? Has the business of the stallholders been affected with the phasing out of poultry slaughtering in wet markets? What assurance do the consumers have as regards the freshness of dressed poultry? If abattoirs are required to date tag the dressed poultry, the Ministry must ensure that the date tags are not tampered with. What measures are there to ensure that the unsold poultry are not treated with chemicals so as to preserve its freshness? Sir, until there are enough service abattoirs to supply dressed poultry, the phasing out of poultry slaughtering in wet markets should be done in stages. This is to ensure that both the consumers' and the stallholders' interests are not compromised. 1.30 pm

Sir, the Ministry of the Environment's action against overcharging and other anti-social practices in the Newton Food Centre is praiseworthy. Besides blatantly fleecing the tourists, they threaten and bully Singaporeans for whom the food centres are intended. Moreover, the hawkers concerned grow fat with their ill-gotten profits at public expense since they, until very recently, pay a subsidised rent. It is a pity that their greed would damage the image of Singapore as a tourist attraction which the Singapore Tourist Promotion Board is going all out to promote. Now the Ministry of the Environment has posted a "guide on food prices", as a Ministry official has put it, at Newton Food Centre, how about doing the same at other food centres patronised by locals as well as tourists? After all, as the hawkers pay subsidised rentals for their stalls, they should not be allowed to overcharge customers. Similarly, hawkers should not be allowed to operate in very unhygienic conditions, as in some food centres. Tables are left uncleared for a long time, piled up with dirty dishes and unfinished food. The unswept floors are also dirty and wet, with stray dogs, cats and even birds scavenging around the scraps. As dirty food centres are not conducive to healthy living, the recalcitrant hawkers responsible for such unhygienic conditions should be punished accordingly. Sir, while the effect of its recent enforcement action in Newton Food Centre is still fresh in the minds of all hawkers, I suggest the Ministry should follow up by taking stern corrective action against hawkers who are guilty of overcharging or of unhygienic practices.

Sir, in the 1970s and early 1980s, food centres and wet markets were built to relocate street and back lane hawkers to improve the standards of hygiene and the health conditions of the stalls. It was also to provide residents with easy access to them. By 1983 the authority had stopped building wet markets, as all street hawkers had been properly accommodated in food centres and markets built by HDB. Now the building of new wet markets will be accompanied by the demolition of old and dilapidated ones. This will mean the relocation of stallholders now operating in the old markets. Under the existing policy, these affected stallholders will have three choices open to them. They can either choose to give up their stalls and receive a lump sum compensation, bid for the new stalls, or rent them from a single operator of the market. Whether they bid for a stall or rent one from the sole operator, the rental fees they have to pay will definitely be higher than what they are paying now, judging from the current market forces. As many of the affected stallholders may not be able to afford the new rentals, their livelihood will be affected. It will not be easy for the affected people to find another means of livelihood because these people have been hawking all their lives. May I therefore request that the Government work out some kind of scheme to give them priority over fresh applicants when it comes to allocation of stalls in the new market. Also, I think it will not be a good idea to tender out the new market to single operators on term lease. This is because the prospective operators will definitely bid at very high prices in order to get the term lease. The successful bidder will in turn charge stallholders exorbitant rents to make a handsome profit. The stallholders will, of course, pass the cost to the consumers. In the end, it is the consumers who will be the ones to suffer. I therefore would like to propose that new markets should not be tendered out to single operators, but leased directly to the members of the public with some kind of concession or priority given to stallholders in old markets affected by relocation. In this way, market rentals for stalls will not be driven too high.

Dr Wong is not here. Mr Chin.

Sir, littering in public places is an anti-social habit which is fairly universal. Singapore is trying to bring such dirty habit under control through education by way of the anti-litter campaign, and enforcement action. However, in spite of such actions, there are still too many cases of littering by, for example, motorists throwing away rubbish from their moving vehicles, contractors' lorries spilling earth and other things on the road through carelessness or overloading, contractors throwing away rubbish beside deserted roads, and some householders throwing litter in any convenient places away from their homes. We also still hear of cases of killer-litter in HDB housing estates. Has the Ministry of the Environment relaxed in its enforcement against litterbugs, or has the number of littering cases increased despite the Ministry's efforts? Should sterner action be taken against the offenders? Should an anti-litter campaign be mounted throughout the year instead of occasionally? Should the Ministry explore more innovative ways of getting the public's cooperation in fighting such anti-social habits? Sir, perhaps, members of the public can help by taking down and reporting the registration number of littering motorists. The problem is how is the Ministry going to persuade the public to do so?

Sir, despite our strict anti-littering law, littering remains a problem in Singapore today. The number of persons prosecuted for littering reached a record high of 10,056 in 1990. It is a safe bet to say that nine out of 10 litterbugs are not caught in the act. Therefore, much more concerted effort is needed to stamp out this shameful and degrading act of many a Singaporean. I believe that public education is one of the best ways to rid Singaporeans of this anti-social act in the long run. The launching of the "Clean and Green" mascot frog to help save our environment saw a big drop in the number of persons prosecuted for littering in 1991. The figure dropped from 10,056 in 1990 to 4,250 last year. Therefore, I hope more such public education campaigns can be launched. The Ministry of the Environment must be congratulated for its fine efforts in controlling the littering problem. Sir, besides public education, school and home education is equally important, if not more so. For one reason or another, one seldom hears of "Use Your Hands" campaign in schools nowadays. I remember in the olden days, especially in Chinese schools, keeping the classrooms as well as the school compound clean and tidy, including washing the lavatories, used to be part and parcel of a school child's total curriculum, as it were. Why not now, Sir? We all know that good habits should be inculcated young. And helping to keep places other than one's own home clean is definitely a habit worth inculcating in every one of our citizens. Perhaps, the Minister for Education could consider my humble suggestion. Our express wish is to bring about a more gracious and caring society. One way to do this is to adopt a positive or constructive approach rather than a negative or "quick-fix" approach. The positive approach is often a long and tedious one, but the results are sweet and long lasting. Whereas a "quick-fix" approach often aggravates the original problem. The positive approach is through education, and the negative approach is through punishment and fines, although it cannot be denied that sometimes punishment and fines are necessary. In this respect, Sir, I have my doubts if the mooted Community Service Order would achieve its objective in Singapore. Littering is quite unlike housebreaking or robbery. It is much more difficult to apprehend the culprits, many of whom may be recalcitrant offenders. I would therefore urge that we should inculcate in our citizens the right values. They should be made to feel ashamed if they are caught littering themselves, and take pride in not doing so. This should begin in the homes and continue in kindergartens and schools and even colleges. I am sure with more public education, we can look forward to a healthy living and clean environment. Finally, Sir, may I ask the Minister whether there are plans to launch a public education programme. I believe that such a programme will raise the people's sense of collective and social responsibility. The ideal is to educate and cultivate such civic consciousness in our citizens so that it becomes a habit and a norm.

Sir, I intend to speak on dengue haemorrhagic fever (DHF) which is still a problem in Singapore. Despite wide publicity through health education programmes, and constant reminders through the media, we still come across owners whose premises have become breeding grounds for Aedes mosquitoes. Recently, Sir, we read a report about the outbreak of DHF at Seletar Hills Estate. I wish to ask the Minister on the latest situation on dengue fever and whether the Ministry intends to take strong enforcement measures to curb this problem. Will the Minister also inform us, apart from strong enforcement measures, what other measures does the Ministry intend to take?

Sir, I am very concerned about the continuing resurgence of dengue fever in Singapore. In 1989, 944 cases were reported with two deaths. In 1990, 1,733 cases were reported with three deaths, and last year there were 2,179 cases with six deaths. In the first seven weeks of this year, 273 cases have already been reported. This is quite alarming in our ultra modern society. Reports of outbreak somehow come mainly from the north-eastern and eastern parts of Singapore. As no known vaccine is yet available in the market, residents in the affected areas are at risk of contracting the deadly disease. At present, fogging and the spraying of insecticide seems to be the only means to control the Aedes mosquitoes. Fogging and spraying, however, calls for the cooperation of the occupants of houses and flats affected. This often presents a problem, due to possibly ignorance or attitude of the householders concerned. Sir, most people have the impression that fogging will dirty their homes. As such, they will rather not open the door to the Ministry of the Environment officers. Some of them are also fearful that if mosquito larvae are found in their premises, they would be prosecuted. The Ministry of the Environment needs to address this problem of cooperation. I feel that much more publicity and public education may be necessary before the menace of the Aedes mosquitoes could be eradicated. Also, many people, either due to laziness or ignorance, do not change the water in the flower pots and vases often enough to prevent the breeding of mosquito larvae. Perhaps, some kind of chemicals that could stop the breeding of mosquitoes could be made easily available in the market. This may encourage householders at least to take some precautionary measures to prevent mosquito breeding in their homes. Sir, all said, I still feel that the best way to wipe out the dangerous Aedes mosquitoes is public awareness of the danger of the Aedes mosquitoes. This is best done through public and school education. A national campaign may also be necessary. May I then ask the Minister whether the Environment Ministry has any plan to introduce a public education programme this year to increase the public's awareness of the possible danger caused by Aedes mosquitoes? 1.45 pm

Sir, waste minimisation will become more and more important as the society develops and generates more wastes. More wastes will also add to the problem of waste management and disposal. Our people must be actively encouraged to conserve resources of the earth by adopting less wasteful lifestyles to minimise waste generation and to also reuse and recycle wastes. I am glad that the Ministry has recently set up a Waste Minimisation Department to formulate policies to promote and spearhead waste minimisation in Singapore. The Green Plan has targeted to reduce our daily waste of 1.1 kg per capita to 0.9 kg per capita by the year 2000. This is an ambitious target of a 20% reduction. But the Green Plan has merely stated that the Ministry would work through getting the industries to generate less waste and would implement programmes and financial incentives to promote re-use and recycling. May I ask the Minister what specific programmes and incentives he has in mind? Is the Ministry considering measures such as charging a quantity-based fee for refuse collection?

Mr Chairman, Sir, first, on the subject of wet markets. Let me first deal with Government's rationale of reversing the original policy of not building new wet markets. Sir, the Government stopped building wet markets in HDB housing estates in 1982 because the wet markets then were messy and the pollution caused, especially by poultry slaughtering, was unacceptable. Since then, dry markets were built instead in HDB town centres. However, Sir, with the successful phasing out of poultry slaughtering in wet markets, the wet markets can now be operated with less pollution problems. For this reason, and also for the fact that residents prefer wet markets to dry markets, Government has decided that wet markets will be built in new HDB town centres. Sir, my Ministry is currently working out the design criteria for the future wet markets. All I can say is that future wet markets will be tastefully designed with sufficient stall space for the stallholders to operate in and bigger circulation area for their customers to walk about, and more stringent anti-pollution measures will also be incorporated into the design. Good ventilation, good lighting will also be looked into. Sir, the Government also plans to upgrade existing wet markets which will serve the needs of residents. All redundant vacant stalls will be removed and the remaining stalls re-grouped to improve on the layout as well as the circulation. Sir, the upgrading will be carried out in stages and it will not result in any displacement of stallholders, as every stallholder will be given the opportunity to return to the renovated wet markets. Let me now move on to the subject of poultry slaughtering in wet markets raised by Encik Ibrahim Othman and Mr Teo Chong Tee. Sir, both Members want to know the progress of phasing out of poultry slaughtering in wet markets, and in particular, Encik Ibrahim wants to know the measures taken to ensure that the dressed poultry sold to Muslims are slaughtered according to Muslim rites, in other words, they are halal. Sir, the programme to phase out poultry slaughtering in wet markets is done to coincide with the development and commissioning of poultry abattoirs. To-date, a total of 199 poultry stallholders in 39 wet markets within the Singapore River and Kallang Basin catchments have stopped slaughtering poultry at their stalls. Instead, they are now selling dressed poultry obtained from licensed poultry abattoirs. Another 292 poultry stallholders in 62 wet markets will give up poultry slaughtering by March next year, and this will complete the programme to phase out poultry slaughtering in wet markets. For the information of Encik Ibrahim Othman, poultry slaughtered according to Muslim rites will have the word "halal" on the tag tied to the dressed poultry. The Islamic Religious Council of Singapore (MUIS) is looking into the matter. Sir, to ensure that the dressed poultry sold at wet markets are fresh, a concern expressed by both Encik Ibrahim and Mr Teo, my Ministry will soon require dressed poultry to be tagged to show the date of slaughter and the name of the abattoir that does the slaughtering. So for Muslims, over and above the date of slaughter and the name of the abattoir, the word "halal" will also appear on the tag, as I have mentioned earlier. Sir, while still on the subject of poultry slaughtering, Mr Teo wants to know whether a survey has been conducted by my Ministry to find out consumers' acceptance of abattoir-slaughtered poultry, or what we call dressed poultry, and whether the business of the stallholders has been affected in any way by the phasing out of poultry slaughtering in wet markets. Sir, ENV's finding is that consumers have accepted abattoir-slaughtered poultry or what we call dressed poultry. This is based upon the fact that there were no adverse comments from consumers nor complaints from stallholders that their business from walk-in customers has been affected by the switch. As far as the stallholders are concerned, besides the continued patronage of walk-in consumers, their supply business to restaurants and other retail food outlets has not been affected in any way by the switch from poultry slaughtering at the stalls to selling dressed poultry obtained from poultry abattoirs. Now, I move on to the subject of display of prices in food centres, as raised by Mr Chin Harn Tong. Sir, hawkers in every market and food centre are required to display price lists at their stalls. This is a requirement under the Environmental Public Health (Market) Regulations of 1969. Sir, in the case of the Newton FoodCentre, the stalls were having different sets of price lists, some of which were on the menu, some of which were in different languages. This has caused confusion to customers, particularly the tourists. The stalls at Newton Food Centre are now required to display their prices clearly, without any ambiguity between the prices stated and the food to be sold. They are also required to have only one set of prices which must be applicable to each and every customer, regardless of whether the customer is a local or a tourist. I now turn to the subject of cleanliness at food centres which has been raised by Mr Chin Harn Tong. Sir, the problem of non-clearance of soiled crockery and left-over food happens only in food centres where there is no proper system of the cleaning of tables. This problem does not happen in food centres where the stallholders make use of contractors to provide a centralised table cleaning service. To-date, Sir, more than 20 food centres in Singapore are using such centralised services. ENV is now working with hawker representatives from the other food centres as well as representatives of town councils to similarly implement the centralised table cleaning system. Sir, listening to Mr Teo Chong Tee speak on the relocation problem amongst hawkers, I think he is under the impression that the building of new markets is accompanied by the demolition of old markets. Sir, if you recall, I mentioned just now that Government has decided that wet markets will be built in new HDB town centres. Therefore, it is not true to say that old markets have to be demolished to make way for new ones. Old markets, however, will still be demolished if they are affected by public projects like road widening. Even in such a case, a new wet market may or may not be built depending on the demand for a replacement market and also on the availability of land in the vicinity. However, in the event that a new market is built to replace an old one that is demolished, Government will consider giving preference to the affected stallholders in the allocation of stalls in the new wet market. Sir, I think Mr Teo must have also got wind that the new generation markets to be built by HDB in new town centres will be tendered to single operators. Yes, the Government is considering that possibility. But at the same time I would like to inform the House that as a policy, Government, in the long term, plans to devolve itself from the management of hawker centres and from the management of wet markets. So if stalls in new wet markets are to be leased directly to members of the public, as suggested by Mr Teo Chong Tee, then Government will still have to manage these new wet markets. If that is the case, then the Government's long-term policy to devolve itself from the management of wet markets or hawker centres can never materialise. On littering, Sir, I agree fully with Mr Chin Harn Tong and Mr Teo Chong Tee that it is still very much a problem with us in Singapore. The number of persons caught littering rose from about 7,500 in 1987 to 10,056 in 1990, as quoted by Mr Teo Chong Tee. But in 1991, the number of persons caught littering fell to 4,250, again as quoted by Mr Teo Chong Tee. But here, Sir, how I wish I can claim credit for the drop and how I wish I can claim that the Clean and Green Week or Captain Green, the mascot, has been responsible in bringing down the number of persons caught littering. But the true fact is that the drop happened as a result of HDB's withdrawal of its officers from housing estates when it handed over the management of these housing estates to town councils. However, I would like to assure Mr Chin Harn Tong that ENV definitely has not relaxed on its enforcement and also public education programmes against littering. We, however, welcome as much assistance and cooperation as possible from members of the public and agencies such as town councils. To the public-spirited who wish to help, I would like to inform them that they could report littering offence to ENV and we will prosecute the offender, provided of course that the person who reports is prepared to testify in court if the need arises (I stress, only if the need arises). To those who still persist in littering, I appeal to them to make a little bit more effort and be a little bit more considerate. There is really no excuse for anyone in Singapore to litter today as we have more than ample litter bins put up at public places. The locations and number of litter bins put up are constantly reviewed so that pedestrians should be able to find one easily and not be unduly inconvenienced. As for the motorists, I am afraid they have got to wait until they alight before they deposit their litter in the litter bins. But if, for some reasons, they have got to smoke while driving, please use the ash tray in the car for the cigarette butts and the match sticks. 2.00 pm I thank Encik Ibrahim Othman and Mr Teo Chong Tee for speaking on the subject of dengue fever which is certainly of some concern to us right now. Sir, there has been a resurgence of dengue fever in the Southeast Asia region in recent years and Singapore has not been spared. We have experienced a number of localised outbreaks in the last four years with the most recent outbreak, as quoted by Encik Ibrahim quite rightly, occurring in the Seleter Hills area. Fortunately, the outbreak has since been brought under control. Sir, my Ministry places great emphasis on public education, through TV, radio and the print media. Talks are also given to school children so that they, in turn, can bring home the message to their parents, grandparents, siblings or even to their maids. There are also pamphlets and booklets published and these are widely distributed to residents through the help of RCs and other grassroots organisations. Public health inspectors of my Ministry, Sir, are sent out daily to look out for possible breedings in housing estates. Having said that, Sir, I would like to stress that dengue fever cannot be controlled completely without the active participation of the community. Sir, knowing about the disease and knowing about how to prevent Aedes mosquitoes from breeding is not good enough. The community must also make a concerted effort to look for possible breeding grounds in their homes. Sir, all its takes to trigger off an outbreak of dengue fever in a neighbourhood is for a few homes to breed Aedes mosquitoes. It is for this reason, Sir, that my Ministry has decided to take a tough stand against those found breeding Aedes mosquitoes in their homes. We should not allow the carelessness or indifference of a few to cause a health threat to the majority in the neighbourhood. For the information of this House, Sir, in the months of January and February this year, nearly 180 residents were booked for breeding Aedes mosquitoes in their homes. Mr Teo Chong Tee also wants to know if there are chemicals of some sort that can stop the breeding of mosquitoes. The answer is, yes. Granulated insecticides, which can be used effectively to prevent mosquitoes from breeding in receptacles or containers, can be purchased from most plant nurseries, from certain Shell petrol stations, as well as from all the seven Environmental Health Offices of the Ministry of the Environment. On the subject of waste minimisation raised by Dr John Chen, Sir, my Ministry hopes to achieve a reduction in waste output from domestic and trade premises through the active participation in waste recycling by the community and also by the business corporations. Sir, looking at the things households throw away today, one can see that a lot more could be separated at source for recycling. For example, paper used for wrapping, discarded mails, old magazines, old telephone books, could easily be put together with old newspapers and sold, or be given to the rag-and-bone man. Likewise, Sir, plastic containers and metal cans can also be separated at source for recycling. Sir, in the past one year or so, my Ministry has been actively promoting waste recycling and I am happy to say that the idea is fast catching on and there is now a much greater awareness among the population on waste recycling. More and more waste recycling schemes have been organised in housing estates, in schools, offices, hotels, and I am confident that as more and more people make a conscious effort to recycle their waste, the target of 0.9 kilogram per capita per day, though difficult, can be achieved. My Ministry is also working with the Singapore Manufactuers' Association (SMA) to encourage manufacturers to review their manufacturing processes, to see how best they could cut down on the amount of waste they produce. Manufacturers are also encouraged to cut down on unnecessary packaging so that consumers would have less to discard as waste. Anyway, anyone who is interested in starting a waste recycling scheme in his house, office, or neighbourhood, may contact my Ministry for advice and assistance.

Sir, I thank the Minister for his reply and beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment No. (3), Dr Chen.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head M be reduced by $10 in respect of Code MF 1500 of the the Main Estimates. Sir, breathing is natural but the concern people have for the quality of air may not be as natural as breathing. There is no doubt that air quality affects our health and should be the concern of everyone. The requirement for the use of catalytic convertor will cut down the use of leaded petrol and also lead to cleaner vehicular emission. I would like to ask the Minister what other steps are being taken by the Ministry to further improve outdoor air quality, bearing in mind, that with higher level of industrial production in Singapore, air quality will suffer as a result of greater emission of hazardous gases, such as sulphur dioxide. The recent forest fire in Indonesia has caused heavy haze in Singapore. What measures is the Ministry taking in collaboration with our ASEAN neighbours to minimise the likelihood of a repeat of such haze? Sir, it is also important for us to reduce indoor pollution. Prohibiting smokers to smoke in airconditioned public places is a good and major effort in improving indoor air quality. What about the presence of other indoor pollutants in office buildings and factories? Is the Ministry identifying and monitoring their levels of pollution and determine their risks to the health of workers and Singaporeans?

Dr Chen, you have another subject. Carry on, please?

Thank you, Sir. The success of Singapore's industries and trade has greatly increased the variety and volume of chemicals and chemical products handled in and through Singapore. These substances and their handling will increase even more rapidly in the near future with a forecasted four-fold increase in the size of the chemical industry and simultaneous growth in the type of chemical industries, oil processing industries, warehousing and distribution trade. Some of these chemicals have the potential to seriously endanger lives and damage the environment if they are not safely managed at all stages of their life cycle, beginning from their production or import to their final disposal. This is particularly critical in a small and highly built-up country such as Singapore, in which land is used intensively for housing, industries, water catchments and other uses. Any accidental release caused by mismanagement of toxic, or hazardous chemicals, at any stage of their life cycle can result in disastrous consequences to lives, the environment and our water resources. Sir, in Singapore, there are now about 3,000 factories and other installations handling, storing or using chemicals in their manufacturing processes. These companies vary in size, from small electroplating firms, storing a few kilograms of chemicals, to large industrial plants with bulk tanks, capable of storing a few thousand tonnes of chemicals. Despite the differences in size, all factories and installations handling toxic chemicals have similar needs to manage toxic chemicals safely, in order to safeguard the well-being of their workers, the public and the environment. While the Government has always been strict in its controls and legislation pertaining to the handling of such substances and has taken steps to mitigate the consequences of accidents should the unfortunate occur, very few Singaporeans know what the Government has done to minimise the risks that we are facing. If we want the public to be more environment-conscious and know what to do in times of emergency, we need to provide them with more information on what we are doing to enhance public safety. Would the Minister tell us whether this is being done and what important measures the Ministry has adopted, or is planning to do to further enhance public safety?

Sir, recently there have been allegations that toxic waste found at Pantai Remis, Perak, came from Singapore. This is a very serious allegation and I believe the Ministry of the Environment must have looked into this. Will the Minister let us know the outcome of the investigation and what is Singapore's stand on this incident? Sir, arising from this incident, it would be useful if the Minister were to enlighten us as to how waste generated during manufacturing processes in Singapore is disposed of. Sir, I believe, Singapore is also a transhipment centre. It is likely that waste dumped in some neighbouring countries pass through Singapore. What can the Ministry do to prevent or to detect such waste from being transhipped through Singapore?

Mr Chairman, Sir, the subject of indoor air quality is new and the Ministry of the Environment is looking into it. In fact, Sir, a programme to monitor the indoor air quality of commercial buildings has started recently. The programme is on-going and data are still being collected. ENV will also look into setting guidelines on indoor air quality. So much on indoor air quality. I now move on to outdoor air quality. Sir, the two main sources of air pollution in Singapore are industries and vehicles. We, therefore, make sure that all industries set up in Singapore install and maintain all the necessary pollution control equipment to keep emission to levels specified in our Clean Air Act. We have also introduced more stringent vehicular emission standards to keep down emissions from our petrol-driven as well as diesel-driven vehicles and motor-cycles. As a result of these measures, the level of pollutants in the air in Singapore today is well above safety standards, as recommended by the World Health Organisation and the United States Environmental Protection Agency (USEPA). However, as the number of vehicles increases and industrial activities grow, the total emissions from these sources will also increase correspondingly. It is for this reason, Sir, that pre-emptive measures have been taken to reduce emissions from these sources in order that the good air quality that we enjoy can be preserved. The use of unleaded petrol and the use of catalytic converters are examples of pre-emptive measures needed to stamp rising levels of pollution from an increasing car pollution. And with the use of catalytic converters, the emissions of other pollutants, like carbon monoxide, hydrocarbons and nitrogen oxides, can be further reduced. Sir, to control the emission of sulphur dioxide, we have already in place controls over the level of sulphur content in fuel. Currently, my Ministry requires the sulphur content in fuel used by industries to be less than 2% by weight. And for industries which are operating near residential areas, the sulphur content in fuel used must be even lower than 0.5%. And, of course, these limits are regularly reviewed. As a result of these measures, Sir, the levels of sulphur dioxide in the air in Singapore today are low and well within acceptable standards. 2.15 pm On the subject of forest fire, Sir, Singapore is currently working very closely with the other ASEAN member countries to address the problem of haze from forest fires. Indonesia will be convening a meeting of ASEAN officials in May this year to look into the interim as well as long-term solutions to the problem of haze from forest fires. Expertise outside ASEAN will be needed. Dr John Chen and this House may be pleased to know that Australia has offered to assist. Dr John Chen, I believe, also wants to know the guidelines and procedures for storage, handling and transportation of hazardous substances in Singapore. A poisons licence or permit is required by anyone who imports, sells, stores and uses hazardous substances listed under the Poisons Act. But before a licence or permit is issued, the Pollution Control Department (PCD) of my Ministry will check and ensure that the hazardous substances are safely stored outside water catchments and in proper industrial areas, away from population centres. In addition, technical requirements pertaining to proper design, proper management and also proper control of the storage spaces used must be complied with. Licences are also needed from PCD for the transportation of dangerous quantities of hazardous substances. These quantities are specified in the Poisons (Hazardous Substances) Rules. Again, before approval is given, PCD will check and ensure that the containers or tanks used comply with international standards and are adequately labelled with information required in an emergency situation. And the travel time and transportation routes are generally restricted to within daylight hours and to roads that avoid, as far as possible, congested areas and water catchments. Under special circumstances, mobile escort may be required. Sir, from 1st April this year, drivers of vehicles which carry hazardous substances in dangerous quantities must also have successfully completed a training course. This training course was first started in 1990. It is a course jointly developed by the Ministry of the Environment, PSA and the SJCDF. To-date, we have trained more than 400 drivers, including drivers of Malaysian vehicles, carrying hazardous substances in dangerous quantities in Singapore. Emergency plans for industries that store and transport hazardous substances have also been drawn up. The Ministry of Home Affairs is leading a multi-agency team to finalise the coordination of these emergency plans into a national contingency plan to deal with any major accident involving hazardous substances in Singapore. Finally, let me deal with the subject of toxic and hazardous waste as raised by Encik Ibrahim Othman. First of all, all proposed industries are vetted by the Ministry of the Environment at the planning stage before they can ever be set up in Singapore. One of the important factors that the Ministry will ensure at this stage is that all wastes generated by the proposed industry can be safely managed and disposed of in Singapore. As a result of these measures, Sir, there are now adequate facilities in Singapore to treat and dispose of waste produced by industries here. Export of waste on a selective basis may be allowed for recycling and reuse provided the importing countries have proper facilities and provided that the importing countries approve the import of such waste. To prevent illegal export of waste, we are now working very closely with our immediate neighbours, Indonesia and Malaysia, on the procedures to identify and also to monitor the movement of these wastes. On the alleged involvement of a Singapore company in the illegal dumping of toxic waste in Pantai Remis in Perak, we have received a preliminary report from the Malaysian authorities. And as the case is now before the Malaysian courts, all I can say at this point of time is that Singapore will cooperate with the Malaysian authorities investigating the incident, and any prejudgment of the outcome of the incident may prejudice any proceeding in the Malaysian court. As the case is still before the court, and until the full facts are established, any talk at this stage about the issue of compensation or to bring this case to the International Court of Justice, as has been suggested by some quarters in Malaysia, is premature. As far as Singapore is concerned, we will prosecute any Singapore company involved in illegal dumping provided that company has committed an offence under Singapore laws. Before I end, Sir, I would like to reiterate that Singapore does not condone any illegal dumping in any country. And we would assist any country to investigate into the illegal dumping of waste, either coming from Singapore or transhipped through Singapore.

Dr Chen, do you like to withdraw your amendment?

Sir, may I just ask one last question?

All right. We still have some time.

Sir, as the knowledge about chemicals improves over the years, may I ask the Minister whether the Ministry would obtain information on chemicals already in use in Singapore and to see whether they are actually harmful to the environment? In other words, not just new chemicals that are coming into Singapore, but existing ones and maybe because of new discoveries, we get to know more about the chemicals. I am asking the Minister whether his Ministry has looked into all this.

The answer is yes. The Ministry of the Environment, together with the Ministry of Health, is constantly looking into new chemicals that are out in the market.

Existing old chemicals.

Existing chemicals, yes, definitely. The fact that hazardous and toxic chemicals are classified under the Poisons Act means that we know the nature of these chemicals before we can classify them under the Poisons Act. The Poisons Act only lists chemicals that are hazardous and toxic.

I thank the Minister for the reply and I thank you, Sir, for finishing the debate in good time.

But are you withdrawing your amendment?

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $228,536,050 for Head M ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $211,098,500 for Head M ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head K -

Head K, Ministry of Defence, Amendment No. (1), Mr Bernard Chen.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the total sum to be allocated for Head K of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100. Sir, may I first congratulate the Minister for sending the Army, Navy and Air Force into this Chamber. I am glad the SAF recognizes the importance of these proceedings and we should also feel very well protected. Sir, in the past two years, the tumultuous events in Europe and Asia have radically altered the security arrangements for virtually every country in the world. The collapse of the Communist regimes in the East European countries eventually led to the disintegration of the Russian Communist Party itself and with it the Warsaw Pact. In Asia, the settlement of the Cambodian problem and the apparent change of emphasis by Vietnam to pursue economic development perhaps have eased tensions. Despite the Gulf War, it appears that most countries are now more preoccupied with getting their economies going than preparing for war. Indeed, many of us in Singapore have questioned the need to further build up our defence forces. There is now a real danger of our population being lulled into a false sense of security. I am in full agreement with the Minister for Defence's recent statements that, irrespective of the apparent changes that may have taken place, we should not deviate from the central objective of building and maintaining a credible self-defence force. Such a build-up has taken us a long time, because not only the Armed Forces have to be given the attention, it is even more important for our own people to be reminded and prepared through the Total Defence programme to be always alert to changing security conditions. Once we slacken, it would take us a very long time to recover. In this regard, I would like to ask the Minister to share with us his comments on the following. First, how is the operational readiness of the SAF being maintained, in particular, given the tight labour situation? With so many competing demands from so many different sources, coupled with the decreasing population that we are facing in the coming years, how will the SAF obtain and keep its fair share of manpower and other resources to implement the various programmes? Second, the Total Defence Programme seems to have achieved some degree of success so far judging by the various mobilisation programmes and other activities which appear on TV from time to time. Is it the Ministry's intention to reinforce its efforts, together with other Ministries, to make Total Defence a part of every citizen's responsibility? More important, the various programmes have no doubt caused quite a series of inconveniences and sacrifices on many of our civilians, whether some of these have been looked at and improvements made to make the sacrifice more worthwhile and minimize the discomfort and inconvenience they experience. Sir, the other matter which I would like to touch on is reservists, and I am not touching on the tax relief. I think too much has been said about it by now. The bulk of our Armed Forces is manned by reservists. In the past two decades, the SAF would have accumulated quite a lot of experience in how to operate the reserve forces. There is an inherent conflict in the time which a reservist can devote to his various duties in the reserve service and in his civilian occupation. All our reservists have full-time jobs. They also have to make time for the reservist training. It is therefore inevitable that these demands on time are not often well matched. There will always be occasions when one has to give way to the other. I understand that MINDEF has been increasingly flexible in its call up of reservists, but the feedback seems to be that more can be done. In particular, while the reservists do not question the need for the call up, some of them wonder whether their time in the reserve service can be better spent. This applies especially to those reservists who are holding more senior positions in their civilian careers or who are businessmen. They think that sometimes they could be more productive. If the time in the reserve service can be better utilised, there is a possibility that reservist training can be shortened and the time thus made available can be put to better use. I would like to ask whether MINDEF has examined this possibility. There is no better way to motivate our reservists than to convince them that their total welfare is being looked after and indeed that they are spending their time usefully in the reserve service, so that the time in their civilian jobs can be maximized, and if our reservists are convinced that time in the reserve service is well-spent, I think we would have gone a long way to preserve the operational readiness of our reservists. 2.30 pm

Sir, I want to thank Mr Chen for his comments. The Member has raised three points: operational readiness and manpower shortage, total defence and the welfare of the reservists. I will touch briefly on the first two and then my colleague, Mr Matthias Yao, will respond to the third item. First of all, the mission of the SAF. The mission of the SAF is to ensure Singpore's peace and security. Should deterrence and diplomacy fail, then the SAF is to secure a swift and decisive victory over the aggressor. The key to the SAF's performance is quite obviously its people, quality, and number, their commitment and their motivation. Sir, with your permission, I would like to circulate a graph and a chart to show the House the manpower problems that we have in Singapore. [Copies of documents (Cols. 915 - 918) circulated to hon. Members]. Copies of documents - POPULATION TREND - MALES, LIVE BIRTHS - MALE (Cols. 915 - 918) Sir, the table and the graph that I have circulated show clearly that for two decades, beginning from 1958 onwards, the number of births in Singapore has been declining steadily. What that means is that there are fewer and fewer male 18-year olds available to join national service each year. The graph shows that very vividly. For 1992, we are having approximately 22,000 males available for national service, and this compares with the peak of about 32,000 way back in 1976. Sir, to cope with this reduced number and, at the same time to maintain operational readiness, that is not easy. So the SAF has over the years been looking very systematically at how this can be done. This afternoon I would like to talk very briefly about some of these measures - how to maintain operational readiness of the SAF with this very severe constraint of manpower shortage. Firstly, we reorganise the SAF. Based on our own training experience and doctrines, we have decided to restructure the Infantry Divisions into Combined Arms Divisions. What that means is that we bring the Infantry together with all the other Arms (e.g. Armour, Artillery, Engineer) into one central command. In this way, the division is smaller, leaner. But we top up by providing equipment and weapons so that there is no loss of effectiveness. Indeed, on the contrary, such Combined Arms Divisions are much more effective in achieving our objective. We have done the same with battalions also. They are smaller, but more effective fighting units, with the ability to deliver fire power. Secondly, we have also tried to help our national servicemen to adjust to national service more effectively. Last year, MINDEF introduced the concept of graduated training at Basic Military Training (BMT). Previously, we had a standard three-month BMT for all recruits. Last year, we started moving to an improved three-month BMT for those who are very fit, a four-month BMT for those who are less fit, and a five-month, very slow and gradual BMT for recruits who are obese. The data that we have got in hand show that the programme has worked out very well. The graduated BMT has resulted in a lower rate of medical attrition and a higher pass rate, as far as the military skills of the recruits are concerned at the end of the BMT period. So far, medical attrition has been reduced by 27% compared with the old scheme. The IPPT pass rate has been increased from 97% to 98%, and for standard obstacle course, the pass rate has improved from 88% to 93%. For the obese recruits, previously they were not available for combat service because they were channelled into non-combat vocations, clerical or technical. But because of the severe shortage in manpower, we have to look for a way in which we could help these obese recruits, shed out some of their fat, develop sufficient muscles and acquire the ability to undertake combat duties. This has worked out very well because about 80% of the obese recruits, after the longer and slower BMT, have been able to attain combat fitness. Indeed, some of them have done so well that they have been selected for Officer Cadet School. The third area where we trim demand for manpower is commercialisation. Any activity that is not required for field operation, we will farm it out, we will contract it out to the private sector to free national servicemen for the more important and more critical jobs. Fourthly, there is heavy emphasis on productivity to ensure that there is minimum wastage of time, minimum wastage of manpower, and minimum wastage of resources. We have been promoting productivity in MINDEF through two major schemes. Firstly, through work improvement teams where we encourage our national servicemen as well as other servicemen in the SAF and in MINDEF to get together in small groups to look at their own working environment, at what they do, and to develop new ways of doing whatever it is that they have to do, better, faster, and more effectively. There are more than 4,000 work improvement teams in the SAF. The second approach is through suggestion schemes. Last year, in 1991, we had a total of more than 120,000 suggestions, giving an average about 2.3 suggestions per employee in MINDEF. All these, to inculcate all in the SAF an attitude, a culture, of wanting to do their best, of wanting to minimise wastage. Fifthly, Sir, to ensure operational readiness with minimum manpower, we invested in better training techniques and the extensive use of simulators. We have been using training aids, computers and simulators for more than 10 years, and we have found them to be extremely effective in shortening the period required for soldiers to acquire a particular skill, be it gunnery, or repair of an electronic equipment. We have also been conducting our own medical research and development into the performance of soldiers; for example, the case that was reported in the newspapers recently, developing a new kind of boots that will minimise training injuries to the soldiers, and minimise the time lost as a result of such injuries. Sixthly, an area which I consider to be of the greatest importance, is the widespread application of advanced technology. Sir, this is one area where the potential is tremendous. Because our population is small, we must make every effort to provide the greatest amount of protection for them and to give them the maximum amount of fire power. That way, in spite of the small numbers, we enhance their effectiveness and strengthen our deterrence. Members, I am sure, must have watched over television last year, during the Gulf War, the application of high technology to modern warfare. There is no doubt at all about the effectiveness of application of technology in giving protection to soldiers in the field, and ensuring a swift and decisive victory without massive risks to soldiers on the ground. All these are areas that MINDEF and the SAF would continue to invest in because, as Members can see from the graph, for the next 13 or 14 years, the number of NS men available will continue to be low. Sir, I would like to assure the House that operational readiness is uppermost in the mind of MINDEF. We will not compromise our operational readiness in spite of the diminished manpower. I would also like to remind the House that it is important that MINDEF has its fair share of talent from the limited pool in Singapore. We must have our fair share, because we need to develop a core of professionals, regular soldiers and officers, who will develop training, develop our doctrines and develop our weapons. This way, we will be able to ensure that the efforts put in by national servicemen will not be in vain, because we have people with the ability, knowledge, and experience to impart to them those military skills that are so essential for the defence of Singapore. Sir, I will speak very briefly on the total defence programme in Singapore. Total defence forms the cornerstone of our defence strategy to get all Singaporeans involved in order to defend Singapore, because an attack on Singapore need not necessarily be by military means only. It could be a non-military form of aggression, e.g. economic or psychological. Therefore, every Singaporean has got to play his part in ensuring the total defence of Singapore. As with the training and upgrading of national servicemen, this message of the importance of total defence, is a continuous and on-going one, to bring home the message to our school children, to our business enterprises, to our statutory boards. Over the years, I have been pleased to note that whenever we conduct exercises of different sorts, we have always received tremendous support from members of the public, from the various commercial enterprises in Singapore and also from the statutory boards. The different Ministries participating in the total defence exercises have also reported similar support. We have had already many exercises: food rationing, water rationing, fuel rationing. These have all been carried out on many occasions, across a number of different constituencies. So a large number of Singaporeans have been involved. What is important is that the message gets through. When Singaporeans participate in total defence exercises, they appreciate the importance of ensuring that we have a credible defence deterrent because, without that, the very conditions that we are practising in an exercise may be the conditions that we have to live with for real. I want to express my appreciation to the many companies which have made their resources available to MINDEF for such exercises, be they vehicles, low loaders, three-tonners, tractors, aircraft, or ships. We have received tremendous support. In somecases, the companies, after having made available their civil resources to MINDEF, declined compensation which they are entitled to. And they tell us very, very simply that it is a part that they want to play. They are grateful that there is an SAF looking after the defence of Singapore, and they are very pleased to be able to make the resources available to us. Sir, with more and more people participating, our security is assured. And it is important because we are a small nation with a small population. If our people are complacent, then the lessons of Kuwait would be in vain. Sir, my Parliamentary Secretary will now take up the second part of the amendment.

Mr Chiam, you can make your speech first, because Mr Yao will be replying.

Thank you, Sir. Sir, I rise again to make the usual call for the reduction of our national service period. Each year, as I have been making this call since 1987, the world situation seems to improve. Now we see the dissolution of the old Soviet Union, we see China. Cambodia is settled. And Vietnam is now making great attempts to get its economy on the way and, therefore, it would not be thinking of military adventurism. In the horizon, there does not seem to appear to be any possible enemies, and that is a good thing. But I know the standard answer of the Minister. He will say that we must be prepared. If we are not prepared, the enemies will arrive. Sir, I believe that the period of our national service can be reduced, because Switzerland has got only a 19-week stint for national service, and I believe Germany has only one and a half years. So the time period is not a factor. It is important, I believe, to integrate our national service with our school extra-curricular activities. I believe that is how they do it. The Minister has just said that our national service boys need to spend three, four, even five months to do BMT. This is not necessary if we have got a good sports and recreation programme in our schools. We must make fitness part of our school programme, especially developing not only stamina and fitness but also strength. That is important. When they leave school, the kids should be fit. I remember I was very fit because I was a school swimmer. I am more prepared for national service, and it is not necessary to go into BMT or what-have-you. If the boys are fit after leaving school, then we already would have saved five months. You could cut it down, and perhaps even teach them marching, discipline, patriotism - these are important factors. Because when we talk of security in Singapore, what is the lesson we have learned from the Japanese invasion? I read through all the reports, and it occurred to me that the most important lesson is that our soldiers must learn street fighting, and that is the most important factor. The Japanese commander had that greatest worry in his mind because his army was already quite exhausted at that time. And he was fearful that if they had to be involved in street fighting, they would have lost. So our national service boys in school must be taught that in case of war, there is a wall behind them, there is nowhere to run, we have to fight in Singapore. No enemy would want to demolish Singapore. There is nothing for the enemy to take Singapore. They want to take Singapore intact, if possible, and that we will deny them. And this is important. In order to instil in them that kind of duty to nation, I think our $1,500 income tax relief will not instil in our boys such kind of patriotism. It must go on a higher level. Our level of instilling patriotism in them must really be of a high level and not through material rewards. It is said that if we reduce our national service period, our level of security will drop. I do not think so. I would disagree. If we have got a proper programme and regular in-camp training, they can be just as good. Our security level will not drop. Investors will not run away. Foreign savings will not be taken out. I am sure our economy can still prosper. And if our economy drops, it is certainly not because of our security unreadiness. In any event --

Mr Chiam, we are running out of time. Have you finished?

Okay, I will try. In any event, we have a great pool of reservists. Sir, another point is our GDP is in fact greater than 6%, because of the number of boys taken up to do NS. And also this shorter period will not disrupt our NS boys in their studies and in their work. Furthermore, in the past, to take them off to do NS was to solve some social problems. But that is not the case now. Sir, there many other points which I believe are good; in fact, at this juncture, with a better world situation, to cut our national service period.

Sir, Mr Chiam would make a most popular Member of Parliament in Kuwait - if only they had a Parliament in Kuwait. That is exactly the sort of situation that had brought the Kuwaitis the disaster they had a year and a half ago, when people are only interested in having a better life and are not prepared to make the effort to ensure that there is proper defence. That is the sort of situation --

You are not giving your life for the nation.

Mr Chiam talks glibly about giving up on behalf of the nation, making sacrifices for the nation, and then he says that there is no need to do BMT.

You are fit. Why should you do BMT?

Order.

Sir, I do not think Mr Chiam has any clue whatsoever about what is involved in basic military training. It is not fitness. It is the acquiring of basic military skills, to know how to fight, to know how to ensure that you do not get killed. And then later on, after having learned the individual skills to survive in war, soldiers have to learn how to fight as a group, as a platoon, as a company, as a battalion, as a division, to ensure that under enemy fire, the organisation, the entire unit, is able to hold together and to defend positions that are to be held. Sir, Mr Chiam talks about Germany and Switzerland, almost as if Singapore is identical to them in all aspects. That the Germans require a year and a half --- Mr Chiam See Tong rose.

Sir, Mr Chiam has been interrupting.

Just one clarification.

Please let me finish off.

Mr Chiam, Dr Yeo is not giving way.

You teach our boys street fighting.

It shows he knows nothing about it about national service. That is the trouble with you. You have not made the effort. Sir, Mr Chiam has not made the effort to find out what is involved in national service.

Order. I would ask both Members to address their remarks to the Chair and not to use the word "you".

Sir, of course, there is street fighting. Mr Chiam does not know what FIBUA stands for, quite obviously. Does he? He does not know. In other words, he knows nothing about national service. Sir, the Germans with a population of 70 million people have got their national service at one and a half years. We with a population of two and a half million Singaporeans, two years, is that too long? How can it possibly be?

Sir, Mr Bernard Chen spoke about the need to use the time for reservist training effectively. I agree with him. MINDEF indeed is judicious in the calling of reservists for the training. Most reservists are called up for fewer than 21 days in a year. Nevertheless, we will continue to shorten call-up periods, where possible, provided that we do not compromise on our training and readiness. For example, we streamline the training system for reservists by centralising basic skills training at the Basic Combat Training Centre. We give a three-day programme, an intensive one. In 1990, we further shortened this three-day programme into a two-day programme without sacrificing quality. During in-camp training we conduct concurrent training as much as possible. This means that each functional group, for example, drivers, radio operators, are called up and trained separately but concurrently before they train together as a unit. This will minimise the time for each group to have to wait for the other to be ready before training together. We also use new technology to shorten the training time. The Minister spoke about the use of simulators and other equipment. This applies to reservists as well as to national servicemen. I assure the House that, where possible, MINDEF will continue to cut down on the time needed to train reservists by employing better training methods and time-saving technology.

Sir, I think Mr Chiam obviously is not interested in national service, otherwise he would have submitted an amendment. On that note, I withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment No. (2). Mr Koo.

Sir, first, I must protest that there is not much time left for me and Dr Ho. I think we should not allow the Member for Potong Pasir to speak in the first place. Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head K be reduced by $10 in respect of Code KA 1500 of the Main Estimates. Sir, I am a reservist. I have lost count of how many reservist training I have done. Maybe nine, 10, maybe 11. In fact, next week I will be going back for in-camp training again. I remember clearly my first few in-camp training. We were all trying to adjust to the rigours of being a citizen soldier. There was no question that reservist training affected our civilian life. But we all knew that reservist training was, and is still necessary. So like good soldiers we soldiered on, and hoped that our work would be recognised. Fortunately, MINDEF understood our problems and recognised our efforts. The bigger problem, however, Sir, was how to convince employers that there was a meaning to our sacrifice. So MINDEF blazed the trail in public education through various campaigns, formal and informal, and the public became more aware of our contribution to nation building. This year, the Minister for Finance has very generously allowed a tax relief of $1,000 and $500 respectively for active and non-active reservists for the Year of Assessment 1993. But sadly, Sir, no sooner than this financial incentive was granted when some (I say some) reservists complained that this relief is too little. I think this should not be the case for a start. The relief is not small. Compounded over a period of time, for a single earning $12,000 per year, the relief translates to 23% per year. So you compound it over a period of time, it becomes quite significant. I urge my fellow reservists to treat the relief not as a salary but as a form of recognition, and I think we should be happy that MINDEF has empathised with us. Sir, I want to make a protest here that some time earlier in the week, the Member for Potong Pasir said that reliefs like that will make reservists like us mercenaries. I think he does not understand what a mercenary is. A mercenary is somebody who fights somebody else's cause. So we are not mercenaries. A mercenary is not covered under the Geneva Convention. He is totally confused. He knows nothing about Army terminology and he comes here and claims to talk about Army terms - Switzerland, Basic Military Training. I think as the unofficial Leader of the Opposition, if he cannot say what he means, then he would not mean what he says. I think perhaps he meant that we are not mercenaries, but maybe mercenary in attitude. So I think he should brush up on his language. If he cannot say what he means, he would not mean what he says.

Sir, I just want to make one point on the reservists. The system of allowing reservists to do the physical fitness test at a time and place convenient to them is laudable. However, I think there is still room for improvement. Currently, there are only three camps - Khatib Camp, Ang Mo Kio Camp and Maju Camp. These three centres serve about 200,000 reservists spread all over Singapore. But these centres are situated in the west and north of Singapore. Reservists from elsewhere of Singapore, particularly those from the east, have to travel quite a distance. Sir, the reservists will appreciate very much if more such centres could be located in other parts of the country, for example, institutes of higher learning, such as NTU and NUS. Of course, these centres can also be open to people working in the vicinity. 3.00 pm Sir, can I go on to my next amendment.

Yes.

Sir, we have just heard from Mr Chiam who thinks that the world is so safe that we can cut down our national service training. I totally disagree with him. Sir, the impermanence is all around us. Nobody foretold the collapse of the Communist states, the crash of October 1987 was not anticipated, neither did the Americans expect Pearl Harbour. Personally, I fear for the country if the calls for reduction of the length in national service are widespread. First, the external conditions are not the only determinant for the maintenance of a country's defence force. When the SAF was set up, it was not because of the Cold War, neither should the demise of the Cold War have anything to do with our security apparatus. Secondly, the fact that we have large foreign reserves high on the global listing is all the more reason for us to place a high premium on our ability to defend ourselves. Precisely because of this, our defence need not be directed at anyone. It is always prudent to be vigilant when the stakes are high. The shortening of the length of national service will doubtlessly release some manpower to the workforce. The price, however, is a compromise in our armed forces' fighting capability. Moreover, it is easier to undo a jigsaw puzzle but harder to put them together again. And therefore on the grander balance sheet, the loss incurred greatly outweighs the benefits accrued. Sir, the call for a shorter stint of national service is a shortsighted one. Before such views proliferate and become populist sentiments of Mr Chiam and his gang, I think we should nip it in the bud. Once it is allowed to flower, it will hurt our country. The question that I would like to ask the Minister is: will MINDEF eventually succumb to the call for a reduction of the existing 2 1/2 years' full time national service and shorter national service stint? Sir, I am of the opinion that the length of our national service is just about adequate. I served in the People's Defence Force before, unlike Mr Chiam. Therefore, in the same breath, can we also have the Minister's assurance that the length of national service of a maximum of 2 1/2 years will not be extended, in view of the reduced number of 18-year old males available for national service in the coming years?

Sir, Mr Koo's speech sounded like an expression of satisfaction for the tax relief for reservists and I thank him for that if that is so. On the question of IPPT from Dr Ho, he suggests that we should have more centres around the country. We are monitoring the situation. The scheme started in September last year and we will look at it over a one-year period and, if need be, we will introduce more centres in the eastern and northern parts of Singapore. He suggests that we go to NTU or NUS. I will ask the officials to follow up on his suggestion. On the NS period, the current NS period is two years for soldiers and 2 1/2 years for commanders. It takes one year to train recruits to the level of proficiency that is required and in the second year we put them on operational duty and make them go through bigger exercises. During this second year, we will train up another cohort of first year recruits. So two years is actually barely adequate, and not adequate. Of course, commanders need longer time to be trained and that is why they are called in for 2 1/2 years. Any reduction of this national service period will leave SAF with a smaller standing army made up of trainees rather than operationally-ready soldiers. So what do we do to offset this? We will have to call in reservists more frequently to serve not only in-camp training but also stand-by duty periods; mobilising them more frequently. I do not think that is a good solution. It is more disruptive to everybody. Therefore, we prefer the current system. The present system is better for us and MINDEF will, therefore, not succumb to any calls for shortening the NS period. Lengthening the duration of NS will certainly enhance the deterrent capability of the SAF, especially when the Minister has shown projections that there will not be so many males for us to enlist in the coming years. Nevertheless, provided our region continues to be stable and peaceful, MINDEF has no immediate plans to lengthen the NS period in the foreseeable future.

I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $3,758,986,750 for Head K ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $350,000,000 for Head K ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

Order. It is time for suspension. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Order. I suspend the Sitting and will take the Chair again at 3.20 pm. Sitting accordingly suspended at 3.05 pm until 3.20 pm

Sitting resumed at 3.20 pm

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

Head T --

Head T - Ministry of Law - Amendment No. (1), Dr Arthur Beng.

Sir, I beg to move, That the total sum to be allocated for Head T of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100. Sir, the starting time for this Head has been changed and the total discussion time has been reduced by 20 minutes. Is there any change in the "guillotine" time?

Nothing has been changed. The time allotted for this Head remains the same and the "guillotine" time is not changed.

In the case, Sir, I would be very brief. I would just like to ask the Minister what his plans are to revise the present patent system?

Mr Chairman, Sir, the present patent registration system is rather costly, time-consuming and difficult. I am glad to say that the Government has decided to change the system. The Government has approved the proposals put up by the Ministry of Law and the Ministry of Trade and Industry for a revised patent registration system. In coming to this decision, the views of other Ministries, statutory boards, tertiary institutions, have been sought and the advice of the World Intellectual Property Organisation (WIPO) has been sought on the various options open to the Government. In the revised patent registration system, Singapore will become a party to a treaty known as the Patent Cooperation Treaty (PCT) of 1970 which will give Singapore registry access to international search and examination reports which are conducted by seven PCT offices - Australia, Austria, Japan, Sweden, USA, former Soviet Republics and the European Patent Office. In other words, applicants may file their patent application in Singapore, and Singapore registry will grant patents based on international search and examination reports. Of course, the onus will be on the applicant to maintain a strong patent. The advantages of this new system are that, first, it will avoid on the part of the Government to invest heavily in the building up of fully-fledged search and examination capabilities. Secondly, it will save local applicants' time as well as cost. And thirdly, it should develop local patent expertise. The proposed revised system will mean that Singapore will have to join three international conventions. First, the Patent Cooperation Treaty of 1970, which I mentioned; second, the Paris Convention for the Protection of Industrial Property, 1983, and third, a treaty known as the Budapest Treaty on International Recognition of the Deposit of Micro Organisms for the Purpose of Patent Procedure, 1977. Because of these procedures that are required, we expect the new proposed patent registration system to be implemented some time in 1994.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I thank the Minister for the reply and beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $116,816,270 for Head T ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $118,620,000 for Head T ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head Q --

Head Q - Ministry of Home Affairs - Amendment No. (1), Dr Beng.

Sir, I beg to move, That the total sum to be allocated for Head Q of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100. Sir, Singapore enjoys the reputation of being a country with a very low crime rate. We should be proud to live in one of the safest developed cities in the world, safer even than Tokyo. Even more importantly, the crime rate is also dropping. In 1991, the overall crime rate went down for the third successive year. Significant reductions were achieved in the more serious crimes resulting in the snatch theft and robbery rates being the lowest in 12 years and 9 years respectively. I commend the Ministry of Home Affairs and the Police for their excellent policies and programmes which made this possible. The cooperation of the public has, of course, played a vital role in bringing us to this happy state of affairs. However, we must not be complacent. The current situation can only be sustained and improved if both the Police and the community continue to work closely at crime control measures. The Police should continue to exploit new technology in crime fighting and investigation. There is also a need to use improved systems of policing such as better coordination with other law enforcement agencies, both locally as well as abroad. I see a growing need to be on guard against regional and international criminals who are attracted to Singapore because of our prosperity. Because we are a communications hub, there will be the constant threat of Singapore being used by syndicates in all sorts of crimes, including drug trafficking, illegal migration and money laundering. I would like to know from the Minister what the Police sees as new challenges in crime control and what new measures are being contemplated to ensure that while we keep our internal crime situation under control, Singapore can continue to deter international crime. The Ministry also needs to take a longer term view so that Singapore will have the right foundation for a crime-free environment in the next generation and beyond. In this regard, I feel that more attention should be paid to our young who can be easily influenced into a life of crime if our affluence as a society and our openness as a global city erode our traditional values. I am perturbed when I read of teenage prostitution and street corner gangs in our newspapers. Furthermore, I am also perturbed by scenes of extreme violence, and gory and bloody scenes especially on TV. Let me just draw two examples. The first example is the movie "Shattered Dreams" screened on SBC on 1st February 1992 in English. In this movie, there were scenes of marital disharmony, with the wife being abused, and sometimes brutally; scenes of the husband breaking into the home to beat up the wife in the presence of the children. Besides violence, what values does this film portray of the family, as we believe it? We all hold dear the belief that the family is the basic building block of society. The second example is the film "The Last Blood", a Hong Kong production, screened on SBC in Mandarin on 29th January 1992. This was an action movie that was produced by Hong Kongers, but filmed in Singapore. The movie plot essentially revolved around the visit of the Dalai Lama to Singapore, when an assassination attempt was made on his life by the Japanese Red Army. The movie then developed along the line of how the Singapore Government tried to save him. Almost half of the playing time of the movie, I am told, portrays scenes of violence, such as fights, gun battles and the use of explosives and pyrotechnics. The Republic of Singapore Police and the Singapore Armed forces were depicted in an unflattering manner in that the Police and the SAF personnel were very easily killed off by the terrorists. Violent scenes took place in very familiar settings such as Changi International Airport, and the MRT Station at St. Andrew's Road. Is Singapore a city of violence? What ideas are we instilling into the minds of our young regarding our own country, our mother land? Again, besides violence, what image are we portraying of the Police and the SAF in this film? Can we now expect our young to respect our men in blue, or want to serve in the NS with pride? 3.30 pm I think we need to take a second look into this. I have discussed this matter with the Minister and with the officials in the Ministry of Home Affairs and I would like to know what is the professionals' view on this matter, what is the potential effect of the media on our young? The Police should consider better and more innovative educational programmes to deter children and students from being drawn into crime and other undesirable activities such as secret society activities, bullying and gangsterism. My colleague in the GPC, Mr Choo Wee Khiang, will have more to say on this. On the issue of rehabilitation, will the Minister comment on the results of the use of electronic surveillance in the drug rehabilitation programme? Is there any plan to extend it to other areas? I would like to know what plans the Ministry has in this regard.

Dr Beng, carry on with your next topic on Traffic Safety.

Thank you, Mr Speaker, Sir. On the subject of traffic safety, I am pleased to note that the Traffic Police has been introducing various measures to improve traffic safety. The Demerit Points System (DIPS) was recently reviewed. Serious parking offences that cause obstruction now also attract demerit points. Public education programme has also been stepped up to bring about greater awareness of road safety. The Traffic Police with the Singapore Automobile Association has even offered tips to Singaporeans driving up to Malaysia. All these are laudable efforts. I also read in the Ministry of Home Affairs' Addendum to the President's Address at the Opening of Parliament that the Traffic Police will be introducing incentives for drivers who have good records. This is certainly most encouraging, because it shows that the Ministry also believes in the carrot approach. I would like to know what is the type of incentives envisaged by the Minister, whether it would apply to all categories of drivers and motorcyclists and when the scheme will be implemented. A combination of reward and punishment is required, because as we make the demerit system more severe, those driving as a career, eg, taxi drivers, bus drivers, may have their livelihood affected. I am not for one moment suggesting that they be given the licence to drive dangerously. But what I am saying is that the more they are on the road, the more likely it is that they will commit offences. So a carrot and stick approach is correct. In working out new measures, the Traffic Police ought to pay special attention to young children who are more vulnerable to accidents. It saddens me to read recent press reports about young children killed on the road, even at pedestrian crossings in school zones. There were also cases of small children who suffered serious injuries when the cars they travelled in met with accidents. The Ministry of Home Affairs has earlier indicated that it was planning to introduce the requirement of rear seat belts and child restraints. When I first read of this, I must admit that I was cynical. However, I was convinced after watching a video on the need to buckle up, both in the front seat and in the back seat. It was a new revelation to me to find out that when a vehicle impacts at a speed of 60 km per hour and a child is in the back seat, the impact of the child on the dashboard is equivalent to that of a child falling from the fourth floor. And if the vehicle is travelling at 40 km per hour, it is like falling from the second floor. I was also of the view that a child in the mother's lap was a very safe practice. However, after watching the video, I realised that it was a double injury on the child, in that the child would now be crushed between the mother and the dashboard. I thus urge the Ministry to put this public education programme into effect as soon as possible, to educate the members of the public, so that everyone will be aware of these dangers. The introduction of the front seat-belts has been very well received. We should aim at education in the first instance to convince all our parents, all our travellers, that there is a need for child restraints, and there is a need for the rear seat-belts. However, while I am for strong measures in the interest of safety, we must also see that such laws do not unwittingly bring about unnecessary inconvenience. For example, I have received feedback recently concerning whether, under the proposed rules, a family will be penalised if it has three or more passengers in the rear seat which has only two seat belts, as most cars in the rear would have only two seat-belts. So, if there are three children, what happens to the third child who is not belted up? Others are worried that they might be required to retrofit rear seat-belts to their existing cars. Vocational drivers, such as taxi drivers and bus drivers, will also be concerned whether they need to carry child harnesses for their passengers. I hope that the Minister would take such concerns into account when finalising the rules. While I am satisfied that the Traffic Police is doing a good job, I hope that the public relations programme within the Traffic Police will be further improved and that there will be no let-down in this. A good relationship will do much to enhance the Republic of Singapore Police's relationship with the public, as it is in the traffic laws that one is most likely to flout in the daily routine of life.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the points made by the Chairman of the GPC were law enforcement, crime trends, prevention and rehabilitation. I will not dwell on the good results which have been achieved in the reduction of crime rates. These have been publicised and, like him, I think the Police deserve congratulations for keeping these crime rates low and bringing them down, and also we should be grateful that the public has responded to the community oriented policing. Let me say that public perception and attitudes towards the Police have also been most encouraging. In a survey of public attitude towards the Police which was conducted last year by a private public relations firm, it was found that eight in 10 Singaporeans felt that Singapore was safer than most other countries, and three-quarters of those surveyed felt that the sense of general security had increased over the last five years. But as Dr Arthur Beng said, we cannot be complacent. We must build on public support. Sustaining the current downward crime trend, while difficult, can be done through continued close cooperation between the Police and the community. For the past five years, arrests made for major offences through public assistance have been high, between 35% and 40%, and the Police are confident that the public will contribute even more in the coming years as they build up the community oriented policing system. But to complement this, the Police will explore and further exploit modern technology for crime prevention and detection. We have already announced the good results we have had from the computerised operations room which has resulted in greater effectiveness in Police response, the results we have achieved from the automated fingerprint identification system, and we are now moving into DNA fingerprinting and polylite. But this is not all. The Police will be doing feasibility studies into other advanced technology such as computer voice stress analyzer and computerised imaging system which should also aid investigations. Dr Arthur Beng asked about regional criminals and whether this will pose a problem for us. True, with the emergence of Singapore as a key communications hub, we are aware of Singapore's increased attractiveness to criminals and criminal syndicates in this region, and I share his concern. The Police will be vigilant and the Police have established close liaison with their regional and international counterparts in police agencies, because this is the only way that we can keep track of and monitor criminals who operate across different borders who may want to come to Singapore. In the past few years, there has been no significant increase in the number of offences committed by regional criminals in Singapore. Let me turn to his questions about the young, traditional values, street gangs and so on. As for teenage crime and street corner gangs, perhaps I should take this up when we come to the cut to be moved by Mr Choo Wee Khiang on youth involvement in secret societies. Dr Beng has raised quite an interesting point concerning the erosion of traditional values. He has posed the question whether the depiction of so much violence on TV could, in the long term, have adverse effects on some sections of our youth. I do not think that we can produce conclusive proof that excessive violence on TV does have an effect on criminal tendencies or attitudes. 3.40 pm

But let me say this. My Ministry and the Police are quite concerned over excessive scenes of violence being depicted on TV programmes of late, propagation and glorifying themes like vendetta, undying loyalty and brotherhood among criminals. In fact, I have discussed this with my senior police officers including the Commissioner of Police, the Deputy Commissioner, Chief of Staff, Director of the CID and the Director of Police's Public Affairs Department. Their anxiety and concern in this regard is not so much with the immediate cause and effect, but what effects this could have in the long term on our youth, in terms of values and attitudes to violence, lawlessness and so on. My Police officials fear that too much of this on TV may inevitably lead to segments of our youth to believe that aggressive or anti-social behaviour is an acceptable way of dealing with others. The scenes mentioned by Dr Arthur Beng are illustrative. But I can best indicate the concern of the Police if I tell Members of the House that the Director of the Public Affairs Department of the Police informed me that he refuses to allow his 8-year old son to watch certain of these programmes, for the fear that he will learn the wrong values. I do not think he is alone in this. So when our top Police professionals tell us this concern, I think we should take note, because he is sounding an alarm bell. I realise that SBC must have its entertainment objectives and must air programmes that are interesting. But the Ministry and the Police will discuss these concerns with SBC and see how, while SBC has to promote its entertainment mission, it can at the same time take into account these concerns which could have long-term effects. Let me go on to Dr Arthur Beng's points on road safety. I am glad to say that over the past decade, the road accident and fatality situation has actually improved considerably. This is despite an increase in the number of vehicles on our roads and increase in the population. Fewer people have been killed and injured on our roads. I would say that there has been some 32% improvement in fatalities, and 55% improvement in injuries resulting from road accidents. 3.45 pm One may ask, if the situation has improved to such an extent, why is there a need for other measures, like the measures which we announced a year ago, for child restraint seats and rear seat belts? Many parents do not realise how very dangerous it is to drive young children without restraints, or with the child sitting on their laps. The fact is that tests have shown beyond a shadow of doubt that in a collision, unsecured children could be thrown about within the car and can die or suffer serious injury. The irony is that the parents who are using the seat belts would probably escape serious injury. Also, the fact that this can happen even at moderate speeds which are common in city areas, the collision would exert such great force on an unsecured child, as Dr Arthur Beng said, the child could be flung against the wind shield or the dash board. Also, an adult holding a child acts as a propelling force on the child and can crush the child in an accident. Therefore, we must follow the example of other countries whose laws require that children should be secured in child restraints. As for rear seat belts, it is not children only with whom we are concerned. For many years, the wearing of front seat belts has been mandatory. Many lives have been saved and serious injuries have been reduced. Adult passengers in the rear seats, not wearing seat belts, expose themselves to similar risks. These risks can be considerably reduced by the wearing of seat belts. Many developed countries, USA, the UK, Sweden and so on, have recognised the need for belting up in the rear and have introduced legislation requiring this. Last year, my Ministry announced that it will make mandatory the use of child restraints to enhance the safety of children conveyed in cars. We will also require the use of rear seat belts. Quite of bit of education has been done, particularly with the cooperation of the press which have carried stories on this. But these measures would be implemented over different phases in the coming months and will be preceded, I wish to assure Dr Arthur Beng, by ample publicity and public awareness programmes. The first stage will be in the middle of this year when all children, below the age of 8 years,travelling in the front seats of vehicles must be properly secured with appropriate child restraint. The second stage for children will be four months later when children must be secured with child restraint in the rear seats where seat belts are available for their use. As for rear seat belts for adults, in the last quarter of this year, all rear seat belts, where available in the car, must be used by passengers. I stress "where available in the car" because this point needs to be noted. From next year, 1st January 1993, all new cars must be fitted with rear seat belts. Ample notice has already been given to the car importers to enable them to comply with this requirement. Details of the dates and of the requirements will be announced some time within the next week by the Traffic Police. I am aware of the concerns expressed by Dr Arthur Beng, and we will ensure that there is no undue hardship and inconvenience. As with other countries, we will only require all available seat belts to be used. Therefore, where there are only two rear seat belts in a car but there are three rear seat passengers, only two of them need to belt up. This is the practice in many countries. Also, existing models without rear seat belts do not have to install rear seat belts. In other words, we will not require retrofitting because many of these cars do not have the anchorage points for rear seat belts to be properly installed. Therefore, the requirement to use available seat belts for new cars will come into effect from 1st January 1993. For the time being, compulsory use of child restraints will not apply to taxis because there is a problem in requiring taxis to carry a whole range of child restraints to cater for children of different ages and sizes. This is also the present position in the United Kingdom. He asked about incentives for drivers, which is a point mentioned in the Ministry of Home Affairs' Addendum. In the middle of this year, the Traffic Police will introduce a scheme with participating insurance companies to offer persons with clean driving records of three years an additional insurance premium rebate. This additional rebate will be on top of the no claim bonus which drivers currently enjoy. The details of the scheme are being worked out with a few leading insurance companies and will be released by the insurance companies and Traffic Police shortly. They expect to implement the scheme some time in June this year.

Sir, I would like to seek some clarification from the Minister. When he mentioned the restraints regarding the seat belts, he mentioned those below 8 years, but this is a large group. Surely, he has some ideas about those who are toddlers versus those who are 7 or 8 years old. Would there be different forms that are required?

Sir, I do not think the Member wants me to go into the detailed specifications. These are details that will, of course, be announced and publicity will be given in the course of the next few weeks.

Sir, what I wanted was an assurance that there will be sufficient time for the publicity to take place. I thank the Minister for it. Sir, it is indeed interesting that the Director of Public Affairs in the Police Force himself disallows his 8-year-old son to watch violent scenes on television. Coincidentally, last night, in my meet-the-people session, a mother brought her 6-year-old child and drew my attention to his violent behaviour and attributed it also to watching too much television. Sir, as parents, we also have a responsibility, and the blame is not entirely SBC's. Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of Code QA 1500 of the Main Estimates. Sir, I note from the Ministry of Home Affairs' Addendum to the Presidential Address at the Opening of Parliament that the Computer Misuse Bill will be introduced this year. This is most timely, as Singapore is becoming increasingly dependent on computerised information system in almost every area of our economy and our daily lives. We need laws to deal with those who abuse the computerised system for criminal gains. Without such a law, we will not be able to win the full confidence of the business community, including foreign investors in Singapore as a global, financial and business capital. Sir, computer technology has also brought about a new fear - computer virus. According to newspaper reports, we are in the midst of a computer virus alert - Michelangelo just struck, tomorrow the world faces yet another virus, Friday the 13th. These viruses are on the loose and are threatening computer systems worldwide. Confidential data can be compromised. Damage to systems can be insidious, widespread and irreparable. Communities that depend on computer systems for their day-to-day business and administration activities can be held to ransom if the laws are not adequate to deal with such new threats. Sir, I therefore hope that the proposed computer misuse legislation will provide sufficient deterrents to deal with all kinds of criminal abuse of computer information, including the menace of computer virus. Sir, Singapore may not have people who generate these viruses, but we need to also ensure that distributors of software take reasonable care to ensure that their products are virus-free. I would like to know from the Minister what are the principal features of the computer misuse legislation and whether the inputs of the various bodies dealing with computer information systems are being sought in preparing the new legislation.

In response to Mr Choo Wee Khiang's question, my Ministry expects to be able to introduce the Computer Misuse Bill some time this year. Members may recall that during the 1990 Committee of Supply debate I have already informed this House the reasons for tightening the laws to deal with computer crime and I also mentioned that there was an Inter-Ministerial Committee specifically set up to study what this legislation should cover. I am glad to say that they have finished their work and a draft Bill has been prepared. The main features of this law, which Mr Choo Wee Khiang wanted to know, are that it makes unauthorised access to any computer and abuse of its information an offence. The following specific new offences will be created: First, unauthorised access to computer material or hacking. Second, unauthorised access with intent to facilitate or commit further offences such as using a computer to transfer money illegally into one's account. Third, unauthorised modification of computer material. Fourth, unauthorised use or interception of computer service, for example, theft of computer time. It will also be a specific offence if one introduces a virus into a computer and this will be under a section dealing with unauthorised modification of computer material. To ensure effective enforcement, the offences will be made seizable, ie, police can arrest without warrant. The law will also make consequential amendments to important concepts such as documents, publications, in our relevant laws so that we can update the law to encompass computerised information. At the moment, we are now in the process of consulting the computer industry on the provisions of the Bill and I expect, as I said, to introduce the Bill some time this year.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. 4.00 pm

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head Q be reduced by $10 in respect of Code QC 1500 of the Main Estimates. Sir, I would like to speak on the role of the Civil Defence Reservists. Sir, reservists form the bulk of the manpower resource in the Civil Defence Force for handling any civil defence crisis. The Gulf War last year indicated the kind of suffering that a country has to bear if there are not enough human resources and preparations to protect, save and sustain the civilian population in an emergency. Peacetime disasters can also happen. In 1986, we had the Hotel New World disaster. We must not be complacent because, even in a country like Singapore which believes in emergency exercises and prevention, major crises can still occur, for example, a major industrial fire affecting many workers and residents. Therefore, the role of reservists in civil defence is critical. The public needs to know more about the responsibilities of these CD reservists so that their families and the public can support the Civil Defence Programme more wholeheartedly. What is the role of our civil defence volunteers in the emergency plans? As you know, Sir, in every constituency there is a Civil Defence Coordinating Committee. Sir, in particular, I would like to know what is the progress of the Officer Conversion Programme. How many NCOs among the reservists have been converted to Commissioned Officers? What is the kind of training and responsibility that these reservists are put through?

Sir, the task of maintaining law and order and the security of our country rests not only on the full-time police personnel, but also on part-time personnel. Without the part-time personnel helping out to combat crimes on our streets, the Singapore Police Force could not have achieved the success rate that it has attained today to make Singapore one of the safest countries in the world. Sir, the subject which I wish to raise here is on police reservists. Unlike their SAF counterparts, the police reservists do not enjoy much glamour and publicity. But it does not follow that their presence is insignificant. It is therefore not unexpected that, to the public, not much is known about the role and duties of police reservists. In my view, Sir, due recognition must be accorded to them as it is essential that they can give of their best at all times. Perhaps the Minister could inform the House whether their number is significant and growing and whether they constitute a valuable resource supplementing the limited number of regular police officers and police national servicemen. Also, I would like to know what plans does the Ministry of Home Affairs have to enhance and maximise the contribution of police reservists.

Mr Choo, you have got three consecutive cuts here. You can take one after another.

Sir, allow me to touch on, first of all, the Review of Neighbourhood Police Posts (NPPs). Sir, NPPs form the backbone of our community policing system which started almost 10 years ago. The setting up of NPPs in various constituencies is now completed. The NPPs have been instrumental in bringing down crime in HDB estates. Because of their close rapport with the community, residents are also more willing to report crimes and cooperate in criminal investigations. We have much to thank the Police for making the system work so well. Sir, I know that the Ministry of Home Affairs has asked the Police to review the NPP system in order that it can contribute even better to crime control. In this regard, allow me to make some suggestions. First, I think the Police should take a very broad view in such a review. For example, we should consider extending the concept of community policing to commercial complexes and to involve the management of public buildings and private residential buildings and condominiums in crime control and prevention in a formal way. While the crime rate in public housing estates has gone down, we must ensure that those responsible for security in commercial, industrial and other areas also play their part in improving the crime situation in Singapore. There is also a need to review how private security agencies could work more closely with NPPs to improve crime prevention. Sir, I would like to ask the Minister whether such review is in place and whether the Minister would take my suggestions into account so that our NPPs and community policing system will be enhanced to help make Singapore an even better place to live, do business and raise our families in. Sir, my next cut is on Restructuring of Junior Police Service. The Police reviewed and restructured its junior officer ranks in 1990 to improve the career prospects of these officers and to help improve the service of junior officers who form the bulk of the manpower of the Police. They are the ones who are mostly on the ground to tackle daily incidents. I would like know what is the outcome of the restructuring so far. Has recruitment been more successful, and other officers more motivated and has their performance improved? The Police should constantly monitor the career needs of all its officers, especially the junior ranks who are the frontliners at NPPs and the various Police divisions and departments, if we are to further improve on the healthy crime situation, as we have today. I was informed by the Ministry that the crime rate went down in 1991 for the third consecutive year, and much of the credit must go to junior officers as well as senior officers. I believe we can further enhance the performance of junior officers. The rate of technological progress is very rapid. Junior officers performing duties in the frontline will also be facing increasingly complex and difficult situations. For the Police to continue to be effective, for example, it must have officers who are specialists in the various fields of crime prevention and control. Sir, I see the need for Police to consider having a system of identifying suitable junior officers for training to upgrade their skills and the system of developing specialists. Will the Minister comment on what measures are being considered to further improve the motivation, performance and career prospects of junior officers? Lastly, Sir, may I touch on Youth Involvement in Secret Societies. I read with concern about various incidents of thefts, robberies and fights involving very young persons. These are street-corner gangs as well as secret society members. Recently, a dispute between gangs resulted in a young man being attacked by a lorry load of youths armed with sticks and other weapons seeking revenge. I am also aware of instances where students, even in reputable secondary schools, take part in secret society activities and terrorise fellow students. It is not just bullying. Sir, I would like to know from the Minister the extent of secret society activities involving young persons, especially students, and what measures are being taken to deal with the problem and to prevent more youngsters from becoming gangsters or being traumatised by gangsters.

Sir, I would like to thank Dr Arthur Beng and Mr Zulkifli for their interest and concern for the civil defence (CD) and police reservists. I agree with Dr Beng that reservists are indeed the pillars of our Civil Defence Force. They play very vital roles in all aspects of civil defence. And I must mention that in an emergency, we have no distinction whether they are regular, full-time or reservists. All are indeed needed together. And therefore in terms of responsibility, our reservists are deployed in all areas of work, for example, managing civil defence shelters, operating public system of warning, evacuating civilian casualties, rendering first-aid and fire fighting. And to equip these reservists for their respective roles, regular training exercises are carried out to increase and maintain the operational readiness of our CD officers and men. We also sought continually to upgrade all our CD reservists, particularly those with the capability and the interest or the qualification. For this purpose, as Dr Beng mentioned, Civil Defence Force has conducted six Officer Upgrading Courses since 1989 for a total of 165 reservists. Upon completion of the course, they are posted either as Second Lieutenants in command or as Staff Officers of their units. In terms of the volunteer scheme which has been introduced since 1982, I am glad to report that we have now 36,000 volunteers throughout the island in all the constituencies. I would like to take this opportunity to thank our constituency advisors for their support and for giving all possible facilities to these volunteers. We appreciate them very much. Volunteers are important. We can never replace them because they are always on the spot within their estates, ever ready and always present to help anyone in distress. Being a member of the grassroots or being a person in the neighbourhood, they will be ready to calm any person in distress, to give them first-aid, to report and to render every possible assistance before the arrival of the other CD forces. So during peacetime, they help in emergency blood exercises, emergency water exercises, shelter exercises, and even in power failures they come in handy as the first to show the way. So we cannot replace them at all, and we appreciate their role. In terms of Mr Zulkifli's point, I agree that the police reservists are indeed the unsung heroes in our society today. They are deployed for patrol and other duties round the clock, throughout the island, throughout the year. During major events they supplement the regular police officers in crowd control and traffic control. I must say that these police reservists have discharged their duties with a very high level of commitment and professionalism. For example, in May last year, four police reservists, while on patrol duty at the very popular Newton Food Centre, which many Members frequent, spotted a motorcycle which had been reported lost. They laid an ambush successfully and arrested the culprit. It was later found that this person was responsible for other motor thefts throughout the island. In January this year, this time at Henderson Road, three police reservists heard the cries of a lady whose handbag was snatched away. They gave chase and eventually arrested the thief. There are many other examples. To enhance and maximise the contribution of our police reservists, the Police have with expert assistance completed a major study and review of training and deployment of these reservists. Police reservists henceforth will be re-organised, re-deployed according to their skills and according to their background, so that they can contribute most in their appointments. We do not, Sir, wish to put square pegs into round holes. For example, reservists who possess technical skills will be posted to units such as the Force Transport Base, Police Academy and the Computer Services Department. I am sure they will enjoy their work. And those who are posted to the NPP will be those who enjoy field work. What all these mean is that there will be opportunities for reservists to specialise and deployment will be more purposeful and skills-orientated. And those who demonstrate leadership capability will be identified and will be upgraded in terms of training and posting. All round, Sir, we will have a greater sense of identiy and job satisfaction. 4.15 pm Now, Sir, turning to the point brought up by Mr Zulkifli about recognising the roles of these reservists, I am happy to announce that the Ministry will be going ahead with the scheme to promote reservist recognition through the Civil Defence Reservists' Association and the Police Reservists' Association, both of which have been registered with the Registrar of Societies. Two pro-tem committees have been set up and they are finalising the plan. The official launching of these Associations will be in May or June this year. Reservists who join in as members will enjoy a package of benefits, including discount schemes, insurance schemes, sports, and clubhouse facilities, and membership, I assure Members, will be kept at very affordable levels. My Ministry is planning the construction of two clubhouses, one for each of these Associations. They will be on par with the SAFRA Clubhouses. We have identified certain sites for construction, and we expect that the clubhouses will be ready in four to five years' time. In the meantime, we are examining the possibility of housing these clubhouses in temporary premises on leases. Overall, these reservists' associations and their clubhouses will be the focal point, the rallying point, for all our reservists. They will help to foster a sense of camaraderie, a sense of identity and mission and this, in the end, is a very small token of our nation's appreciation of their role in total defence.

Sir, can I take up the points raised by Mr Choo Wee Khiang on his three topics. But in view of the approaching "guillotine" time, I might want to take up first his third point on youth involvement in secret societies because it has a bearing on one of the points raised by Dr Arthur Beng, so I might as well attend to it now. As far as youth involvement in secret societies is concerned, I would say that the Police are aware that teenagers, aged mostly between 14 and 18 years of age, often congregate in void decks, playgrounds, shopping centres and other places of recreation, either for company or for sense of belonging. Sometimes, they get involved in skirmishes and disputes with other groups over what appear to be very petty matters. Some may also be influenced to associate themselves in secret society gangs. The Police closely monitor the involvement of teenagers in crime and in secret society activities. But I would like to assure the House that the situation is not alarming, especially when it comes to students. The number of students detected to be involved in gang activities in 1991, for example, is only 54 per 100,000 student population, and most of these activities do not occur in schools. In fact, if they get involved in gang activities, it is mainly through association of peers in the neighbourhood where they live, or places where they frequent in their spare time. What are the measures which the Police take? As I said, the Police take a very serious view and they have a very close liaison with the schools. There are at least 24 police officers who have been appointed to sit in the School Advisory Committees to strengthen this liaison. Some of the other measures are that the Police give talks in schools, and to youth groups on crime prevention and the evils of secret societies. Some 129 talks have been given in 74 schools last year involving 65,000 students. Talks were also given at the CID when organised student groups turned up. Police make frequent checks on youth groups, either checks by uniformed officers, or plain-clothed detectives, in various locations where the Police know that they congregate. In this way, the youths know that the Police are keeping an eye. There is also counselling of delinquent youths. The CID Secret Societies Branch calls up students who are on the brink of involvement in secret societies whom they think are salvageable. They are warned, they are counselled in the presence of the parents in lieu of immediate action being taken against them. And some six months to a year later, they are again interviewed to monitor the progress and to ensure that they have not relapsed. Police not only talk to them and warn them, but also show them visuals and tapes of their peers who have been injured or killed in gangland incidents, to warn them of the possibilities of similar fate if they do not turn over a new leaf. CID officers also tell them of the alternative outcome of their further involvement, in other words, imprisonment or very strict prohibition order under the Criminal Law Act which will require them to be indoors at night. But, Sir, the Police want to salvage these youths who are already getting one foot into the criminal underworld and secret society arena, because the Police want to avoid detaining them under the Criminal Law Act, or serving them with the Police Supervision Order. Apart from persuasion, talks and counselling which I mentioned, for some of the more serious cases, it must be accompanied by a strong message that will have a deterrent effect. And the Police, therefore, plan to take such delinquent youths on visits to prisons, let them see how life in prison is like, and we hope that they will then say, "Wah, never to land up there" and to take a straight path thereafter. In fact, such programmes are successfully run in Australia, the United Kingdom and elsewhere. Similarly, for those who are mixing with drug peddlers and drug pushers, we will also take them on visits to DRCs. These visits we expect to introduce some time in May. Regarding Mr Choo Wee Khiang's question on Neighbourhood Police Posts, the NPP system was established since 1983. To-date, we have 90 NPPs established and are now operating in all the Police Land Divisions. With the network of NPPs forming the backbone of our community policing system, there has, indeed, been better rapport between the residents, grassroots leaders, various sectors of the business community, with whom the Police have to deal with in solving and preventing crime. I referred earlier to a public attitude survey conducted by an established firm of research consultants for the Police. They surveyed some 1,200 respondents. They found that eight in 10 people were aware of the NPP in the residential areas. Three in 10 had even visited the area NPPs and of those who made use of the NPP services, 60% recalled being attended to immediately. The majority of those who were surveyed felt that the introduction of NPPs help to reduce crime rates, while half of them felt that the NPP system was responsible for enhancing Police's capability in solving crime. I was asked about the review of the NPPs. The Police will review the NPPs to identify areas where community support can be made more vigorous and more structured. For example, the Police will want to extend the concept of community policing to commercial complexes and also to involve the management of public buildings, private residential buildings and condominiums when it comes to crime prevention. In other words, not just public housing estates, but these others as well because these other locations can play a major role in improving the crime situation. They can install security alarm systems, employ private security guards to increase the level of security, and help to prevent crimes in the building. That is why I agree with Mr Choo Wee Khiang that the Police should work closely with the management of these buildings on crime prevention and in improving security. Similarly, we think that sundry shop owners and even small retail outlets should be encouraged to form into Neighbourhood Crime Prevention Committees, perhaps, on a smaller scale centred on the town or Neighbourhood centre, to cooperate on crime prevention matters. The Police are also reviewing how the National Crime Prevention Council can further assist and encourage in the formation of such crime prevention groups. I would ask the Police to consider Mr Choo Wee Khiang's suggestion of exploring how private security agencies and even auxiliary police forces can be more involved with NPPs and the community. Just to end up, the overriding consideration guiding the Police in its effort is quite simple, but important, that in crime prevention, crime detection and apprehension of offenders, we need a partnership between the Police and the community - community meaning individuals, families, shops, residences, whether in public or private residences. In other words, everybody has to do their part because Police cannot be everywhere all the time. With regard to Mr Choo Wee Khiang's question on restructuring of the Junior Police Service, he wanted to know the results of the review. The 1990 review, Sir, of the Junior Service was quite well received. Recruitment has indeed improved. In 1990, the Police recruited 447 junior officers, compared to only 361 in 1989. Last year, we had a bumper recruitment of 687 out of some 4,600 applicants. This is, in fact, the best recruitment figure the Police has achieved for 10 years. Not only that, the recent recruits are also increasingly better qualified. Morale of our junior officers has improved considerably. Catch-up promotions given to good officers have taken place and over the last two years, more than 5,000 junior officers have been promoted. Promotion exercises for all ranks are now held annually. A system of selection has been established to ensure that every officer is carefully considered for promotion. A manpower board has been set up in every Police unit to monitor the performance of every officer. The officers are now more motivated because of the awareness that good performance will be duly recognised through promotions. But, Sir, being motivated alone is not enough. Junior police officers must also be competent because criminals are more sophisticated and their tactics and modus operandi more complex. Our officers must keep pace with this. Therefore, the police has a system to develop specialist officers in police functions, such as crime investigation, intelligence analysis, community policing and traffic enforcement. These officers will be specially trained through a series of skills training. Therefore, stints will also be planned to facilitate the building up of valuable experience and expertise. With such specialisation, I am confident that the junior police officers will be better equipped to deal with such sophisticated criminals. Able officers will be continually motivated through timely promotions. The very best among the junior officers can make it to the senior ranks and, with these measures, I am confident that the public will be served by a highly motivated and competent group of police officers.

Sir, as the Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary have given us very detailed answers to our questions, my colleagues and I would like to pursue them with further clarifications at the next sitting, and with your permission, I would prefer to withdraw my amendment at the next sitting.

No, you have to withdraw this amendment.

Sir, then I would like to thank the Minister and the Parliamentary Secretary for their very detailed replies and beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Order. Moment of interruption. Thereupon Mr Deputy Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Estimates for the financial year 1992/1993, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.

So be it.

Resolved, "That Parliament do now adjourn." - [Prof S. Jayakumar]. Adjourned accordingly at Half-past Four o'clock pm. Copies of documents - POPULATION TREND - MALES, LIVE BIRTHS - MALE (Cols. 915 - 918)