Hansard, 2003-03-21

Order read for consideration in Committee of Supply [8th Allotted Day].

Head I (cont.) - Resumption of Debate on Question [20th March, 2003], "That the total sum to be allocated for Head I of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100." - [Mr Charles Chong]. Question again proposed.

Sir, carrying on from where hon. Member Irene Ng left off yesterday, this cut on the abandoned babies has to do with the situation as we currently have. Given the existing law at the same time and our concern for the well-being of the abandoned babies, what can the Ministry do to help the community understand the issues and to find ways and means to help abandoned babies and their mothers and/or putative fathers so as to send a signal to the society at large that, while we do not condone the abandonment of babies, we would still help the expecting mothers and their babies and, where possible, their fathers too?

Sir, yesterday, my colleague spoke on the abandonment of babies and the need to provide a safe environment for them. I could not agree more because, each year, there are many couples who head for places elsewhere to look for babies to adopt. Yet, in Singapore, we have, on average, five or more abandoned babies each year. I was told there were five in 2002. Sir, there are many well-meaning Singaporeans out there who are more than happy to accept these children and we give them a safe and warm environment. They are prepared to give our babies a second chance. It is not for us to judge the morality of the parents who dump these children. There are reasons for wanting to abandon the babies, albeit anonymously. The law, as Prof. Ngiam has earlier pointed out, does not make it legal for anyone to abandon babies. They could be jailed for up to seven years and be fined. There are penal provisions like these, and we wonder why people are not leaving their babies at HDB doorsteps, or even offering babies for adoption at home. Sir, the Minister, in his recent reply, said that only a few jurisdictions allow for legal dropping of babies. I had wanted to ask the Minister if in these jurisdictions, the introduction of such legislation has resulted in an increase in the number of babies being abandoned. Even if it has, does it matter? The issue at hand is one of morality. Of course, it may be said that permitting mothers to drop their babies anonymously may encourage foreign workers to unlawfully get pregnant, and to choose baby abandonment as opposed to abortion as the preferred route to deal with the problem. I am referring here to the sex workers and work permit holders. The problem may be more apparent than real, as it can be dealt with administratively. We can require them to go for more regular check-ups to surface their pregnancy way before the full term. And this leaves us only with a very small segment of the population who could possibly get away with an unlawful pregnancy. My suspicion is that, as in the days when we tacitly allowed babies to be dropped at CHIJ, we may never have a greater number of abandoned babies than was the case previously. This baby drop was stopped sometime in the 1980s. I submit that allowing parents to anonymously leave their babies will allow for greater opportunity for counselling and advice since they will have the absolute assurance that the full weight of the law will not be thrown at them. We have to relook at our policies. The problem will not go away by denying the legality of baby drops. Think of the babies who have been abandoned in the previous year. One was left bloodied and naked, in a lift lobby at Sims Place. She was lying on newspapers and could have been easily mauled by stray dogs, attracted by the smell of the mother's blood fresh on the skin of the new-born baby. Another was left on the bench at the basement of KK Women's and Children's Hospital on a November evening. Yet, a third was found in a cardboard box in the lift landing of a block of flats in Tiong Bahru. Over the last month, we had two abandoned babies who died. How many more babies have to die before the Government will act? I do not personally think that there are compelling reasons not to allow legal baby drops for adoption.

Mr Sin, could you finish your speech soon?

Yes, I am finishing. I will just finish by saying that a life is a life no less, no matter what the colour is. I would urge the Minister to reconsider.

Sir, I would like to thank hon. Members who have spoken about our TFR and the need for us to look into the issue of abandoned babies. My Ministry defines its policy goal on family in a simple phrase: "More Strong and Stable Families". Short and sweet, to the point. Our policies are designed to be pro-family, pro-marriage and pro-children. Let me first talk about our policy goal of "More Families". Mr Charles Chong, Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon, Dr Jennifer Lee and Dr Maliki have asked about our marriage and birth trends. Sir, Members must well know that the birth rates have not been very encouraging in the past few years. The number of resident births fell to 38,700 in 2002, compared to 39,300 in 2001 and nearly 45,000 in 2000. The total fertility rate has continued to fall, from 1.6 in 2000 to 1.41 in 2001. Last year, it hit a record low of 1.

37. In year 2000, the Prime Minister announced the Baby Bonus and the Third Child Paid Maternity Leave schemes. Together with these two schemes, we also introduced marriage and paternity leave in the civil service, and extended the childcare subsidy to non-working mothers. In 2002, the child sick leave was made available to male civil servants and extended to children up to 12 years old. The package of measures we introduced in 2000 takes a holistic approach, providing not only increased financial support, but also measures to strengthen childcare options, work-life practices as well as public education. Our approach has been to create a total social environment conducive to family and having children. While my Ministry is concerned with the fall in fertility rates, we think that it would be too hasty to conclude that these initiatives are ineffective. Family policy, however well developed, requires a strong and stable economic environment to achieve its purpose of a stable or high TFR. Let me quote the experience of another country to explain. Between 1990 and 1993, Sweden suffered from an economic crisis. The Swedish GDP declined by 5%. At the same time, the number of jobs fell by nearly 10%. Along with the economic recession came the decline in TFR, from 2.14 in 1990 to 1.59 in 1996. Since then it has hovered around 1.

5. Economic cycles and economic prospects impact fertility rates. For all we know, our birth rates could have been worse if not for the schemes that I mentioned earlier. Let me quote another example. Quebec introduced a baby bonus scheme, formally known as the Allowance for Newborn Children in 1988. After an initial rise in TFR, Quebec's TFR started falling. Many thought the scheme had failed. And in 1997, the scheme was removed. However, an empirical study published in 2002 by Kevin Milligan, an Associate Professor in Economics from the University of British Columbia, has a new perspective. Milligan says that Quebec's fertility rate was worse than the rest of Canada throughout the 1980s before the baby bonus. But after the baby bonus was introduced, the fertility gap between Quebec and the rest of Canada was reduced by 86%. Milligan estimates that the baby bonus probably resulted in an extra 93,000 births, over and above the births that would have taken place even if there was no baby bonus. This represented a 14.5% increase. While Milligan's study may not be the last word, it does serve to caution us against prematurely evaluating our policies. So let us not be in a hurry to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater. Singapore's baby bonus helps couples to defray part of the cost of bringing up their children. Couples can use the baby bonus to pay for infant care, childcare and kindergarten fees for all their children. As at the end of February 2003, some 31,800 children and 3,400 mothers have benefited from the Baby Bonus and Third Child Paid Maternity Leave schemes respectively. They received a total of $46 million under the Baby Bonus scheme. For the Third Child Maternity Leave, $18.8 million was disbursed for the same time period. Close to 90% of the families have co-saved into the Children's Development Account. Dr Jennifer Lee suggested that we study the European countries which have higher fertility rates. Indeed, some countries have bucked the trend of falling fertility. One example is Norway. Norway's total fertility rate has remained around 1.8 in the past 10 years. Another example is France. In 1993, France's total fertility rate was 1.66, but 10 years later, in 2002, total fertility rate had rebounded to 1.9, which is high among developed countries. The relatively high birth rates in both countries were often attributed to generous maternity and parental leave schemes, as well as family and child support. Interestingly, the CNA reported last month that Singaporeans living in the Cazaux Airbase in France are enjoying a baby boom! There are valuable lessons that we can learn. My Ministry is far from throwing in the towel. Instead, we are studying the policies implemented in those countries to see what we can learn and adapt to the local context. We, of course, have to bear in mind the culture and societal norms which enabled those policies to work in the countries I mentioned earlier. The challenge for Singapore is to replicate the successful policies of those countries in a different operating environment and culture. Sir, Dr Jennifer Lee also notes that immigration should not be the only solution to our falling fertility problem. I agree with her. Whilst we must continue to attract new citizens to top up our population, we must be mindful that many countries are also competing for them. My Ministry believes that the renewal of the local population will remain critical in Singapore. Mr Charles Chong has suggested that there be an Inter-Ministerial Committee called Making Singaporeans Committee to arrest the decline of our TFR. I would like to assure the Member that the two existing committees that he mentioned will continue to consult our community partners and the public, particularly young married couples, in reviewing our policies to achieve that much needed breakthrough. More Singaporeans are marrying later. In 2002, the median age of marriage was 26.2 years for women and 28.9 years for men. In 1990, it was 25.3 years and 27.9 years respectively. At the same time, not many married couples would have their first child immediately. And if we are lucky, some may even consider having a second or even a third. Sir, this phenomenon is understandable. Our young, especially those who go on to tertiary education, spend a considerable amount of time studying. But once they start working, they want to focus on building their careers. Graduate women tend to start a family when they are 30 while those with post-secondary education are only slightly earlier, usually starting their family when they are about 29 years old. After all, multi-tasking is a favourite buzzword today, but when it comes to life goals, we seem to be single-mindedly single-tasking! Sir, those who wait longer would come across another barrier, and Dr Balaji has mentioned this earlier. This time it is mother nature. In a Straits Times' article on 3rd January 2003, Dr Christopher Chen from the Gleneagles Hospital estimates that 1 in 5 couples here face fertility problems. Conceiving at a later age reduces the opportunity to have more children as the fertility window is narrower. 11.15 am Sir, here I would like to cite my own personal example. I followed the model that I mentioned earlier. I met my wife in the US, got married, but both of us were studying and had our first child when I was 40 years old, after I had established my career in NUS and bought a home. We had our second child when I was 42 years old. If you ask me now whether we want to have a third child, my wife would say no, only because she is getting older. So, it is very difficult that, as we try to plan for our lives, we also have to understand that there are choices that we have to make and, as we make the choices much later, we actually reduce the opportunity for us to have a larger family. I came from a family of nine; I wish to have four. But how do we overcome this challenge? It is not easy, but we must try. As Mr Charles Chong rightly pointed out, there must be both monetary support and non-monetary incentives to help create a conducive environment for Singaporeans to have more children. So, we facilitate interactions through the SDU and SDS, introduce procreation measures to help couples to have more babies, and provide care services for the young ones, so that the parents can continue to build their careers. Mr Charles Chong and Dr Maliki have asked about the effectiveness of the Social Development Unit (SDU) and the Social Development Services (SDS). The SDU and SDS ran an operating budget of about $3.7 million in FY2002. Together, they have about 105,000 members. On average, about 2,500 social activities are run every year for over 74,000 participants. In addition, about 10,000 members actively participate in both the units' dating services. Sir, the proportion of married female graduates increased from about 44% in 1987, to 57% in 2001. Since its inception 19 years ago, I am happy to say that nearly 30,000 SDU members have gotten married. For SDS, more than 100,000 members have married since 1985. This is a success rate of about 55% of total SDS membership. Dr Maliki asked if we do review the effectiveness of our SDU programmes in view of the changing profile of singles. Indeed, SDU reviews its programmes regularly to attract the interest of the changing needs of each cohort of singles. Towards the end of 2000, SDU outsourced the management of its socialisation activities to Premier Club, a private company. Since then, many new dating programmes have been introduced, including Speed Dating, Blind Dates, and Zodiac Dates, which have proven to be very popular. This positive change is evidenced by a 20% increase in the participation from members who were previously inactive. I share Dr Maliki's concern about marriage not being a priority among his students. From a survey conducted by my Ministry, 18% of couples met their partners at their workplace, while another 17% met them at school or university. Dr Maliki would thus be pleased to know that the SDU is pro-active, and will be rolling out a funding scheme by the new academic year, called Project Network to co-fund student bodies' activities aimed at promoting gender interaction and relationship-building skills. Some years ago, Mr Eddie Teo, Permanent Secretary in the Prime Minister's Office, was asked what he would like to say about the President's scholarship that he got. His last words on this were: Oxford was where I met my wife. A year or two later, when he was addressing a PSC seminar, he reminded the young crowd of potential scholars and their parents of the importance of balancing school and social life. He shared how he had bought a bicycle so that he could visit his wife, then his girlfriend, every day. His only lament was that the PSC refused to up his allowance, and thus he could only afford a pounds5 bicycle with no brakes and no lights! Perhaps, PSC knew better, for who needs a bright lamp when romance is in the air? I hope my fellow MPs will agree that socialising is indeed important, and it is important to balance school and social life, or work and social life. SDU and SDS help our singles get that balance. Given Dr Maliki's fervent interest in the subject, I hope I can count on his support and assistance to promote social activities in the university; so too Prof. Ngiam. Dr Jennifer Lee talked about the importance of institutions. I would call on the universities and institutes of higher learning to play an active role in facilitating social activities for their students. In fact, I would also urge all employers to play their part to help us address this national concern. Dr Lily Neo and Ms Irene Ng asked about childcare centres. They have indeed raised a highly pertinent point, for the availability and affordability of childcare are critical, if we are to encourage family formation. There are now 632 childcare centres providing 53,000 places, and the take-up rate is about 72%. Thus, there are enough places to meet demand at the moment. While we have plans this year to develop 50 more centres to provide an additional 3,500 places, we will only do so when the enrolment picks up. We will also encourage employers to set up workplace childcare centres but, ultimately, this will have to depend on demand. The childcare centre subsidy rate is currently $150 for working mothers who place their children in full-day care, and $75 for working mothers who place their children in half-day care. Non-working mothers who place their children in full or half-day care also enjoy a subsidy of $75. In this financial year, my Ministry has disbursed a total of $54 million of subsidies so far. I informed this Committee last year that my Ministry would look into a pro-rated childcare subsidy to mothers who need flexible childcare. I am happy to inform the Committee that my Ministry has introduced such a subsidy programme from January this year. As of 13th March 2003, 140 children are benefiting from the pro-rated subsidy. Dr Lily Neo and Ms Irene Ng have also spoken on infant care. I agree with them that more needs to be done to develop infant care. Presently, there are 13 infant care centres with 170 places. Centres that offer infant care have stricter requirements in terms of staff-child ratios. This is because babies need a greater amount of individual attention. Staff are also specially trained for infant care. Because of this, the fees for infant care range from $650 to $1,500, which are higher than the fees for the older age groups. My Ministry recognises that the childcare subsidy may be insufficient when compared to the infant care fees. While I have mentioned earlier that the baby bonus may also be used to offset the infant care fees, we are currently reviewing the situation to ensure that services remain affordable for parents. Ms Irene Ng mentioned that when she surveyed her constituency, she found that the demand for infant care centres was high. The waiting lists at the existing infant care centres are also testimony that centre-based care can be a suitable option for some families. Ms Ng will be pleased to know that MCDS is looking at how to increase the supply of infant care across the island. MCDS has no objection, should operators want to operate their centres round the clock, if this is to meet the needs of parents working night shifts and irregular work patterns. However, our regulations state that no one child should remain in the centre for 24 hours or more continuously. Members would agree with me that a childcare centre should not be operated as a residential institution for young children. My Ministry takes the view that no baby or pre-school child should remain in centre-based care for the better part of 24 hours on a regular basis. Home care, at least for part of the day, and the opportunity to bond with one consistent caregiver, preferably a parent, is in the best interest of babies and young children. Our approach is consistent with the practices observed in other developed countries. Thus far, my Ministry has not received any application for a 24-hour childcare centre licence. I assure the Committee that my Ministry will assess all applications carefully to prevent abuse, and that the developmental well-being of the children is not compromised. Sir, in addition to centre-based infant care, my Ministry has piloted the Family Day Care, which is home-based infant care with trained babysitters. This scheme allows housewives and retirees to care for babies or young children, and earn income in their own home. I believe Dr Lily Neo mentioned this yesterday. It could be a suitable option, particularly for infants and children under 18 months, as it provides care by one consistent caregiver in a home setting. Since my announcement last year that the scheme would be piloted by Southeast and Southwest CDCs, Northeast CDC has also joined in the pilot. So far, 600 care-providers and 300 parents have registered for this scheme. It is premature to consider accrediting the caregivers at this stage. However the three CDCs keep a record of those who have been trained. There are possibly many more models of care which can be explored to suit the needs of different parents. My Ministry welcomes more suggestions, and also encourages more organisations and enterprises to come up with innovative ideas and solutions to meet our childcare needs. Sir, many Members have asked also about what we are doing to strengthen families in Singapore. I will ask my Minister of State, Mr Chan Soo Sen, to respond to these questions later. Let me now turn to the subject of abandoned babies. I share the concerns of Ms Irene Ng, Prof. Ngiam Tee Liang and Mr Sin Boon Ann about the plight of abandoned babies. On average, five babies were abandoned each year from 1997 to 2002. Since January 2003, two babies were abandoned and two were found dead. Of the two dead, we know for sure that one of them was stillborn; the Coroner's report on the second is still pending. Notwithstanding these clarifications, I share Members' concern that babies are involved. This is a highly emotive issue, and there are no easy answers. What we all share is that we want babies to be safe, and we also want to help the mothers as well. Indeed, our hearts go out to the babies and their mothers. The question is how to help both of them effectively. Firstly, pregnant women in distress can seek help. They must be aware that, if they come forward and say that they are unable to keep their babies, they will not be prosecuted for abandonment. We have a care and counselling system that has prevented desperate acts of endangering a baby's well-being. This system has worked. Last year, 515 enquiries on pregnancy issues were received through the hotlines. Of these, 33 pregnant women were helped at the shelters, 19 later gave up their babies for adoption, while the rest were helped to keep their babies. In assisting the pregnant women, the social workers walk through all the options with them, and support them all the way. This will ensure that the well-being of both the baby and the mother is taken care of. Secondly, Sir, there is a role for the community. Pregnancy takes nine months. A woman cannot go about her life unnoticed. Those around her can and should encourage her and even accompany her to come forward for help. Whatever the circumstances she faces, abandonment can never be the solution. She could alert someone, even a stranger, to hand over the child, if she cannot take care of the baby. Publicity about the help is also very important. Even countries that have tried safe havens or baby drops, have not been able to stop abandonment and related deaths, either because the mothers are in no frame of mind to use such baby drops, or because they were not aware of them. Ours is an approach that seeks to help both the mother and the baby. Of course, it is best for women to seek assistance early, before the birth of a baby but, even if they do not, we can still help them after the delivery, if they feel unable to keep their child. It is never too late to come forward for help. We need to further publicise the system and, especially, the helplines and hotlines for pregnant women in distress. In this regard, my Ministry has made 24-hour helpline numbers readily available at the notice boards of Residents Committee centres. This is the flyer that we have put up in all the Residents Committee centres [indicating]. Anyone who is facing problems and needs support should tap into the care and counselling system. Confidentiality is assured for all who come forward for help, and we will increase our publicity efforts. There have been calls for legislative changes and to set up baby drops. Both Mr Sin Boon Ann and Ms Irene Ng have said that it is not for us to judge the morality of the parents who dump their children. Let me assure them again that if mothers come forward, they will not be prosecuted for abandonment. That is key. Let me also say that it is not so much a question of morality as much as it is a concern that we will inadvertently endanger the lives of more babies, if we legalise abandonment. By lifting the inalienable responsibility of parents to care for and protect their children, we risk the safety and lives of many more babies and children. Moreover, there is no evidence to suggest that, by legalising abandonment at baby drops, desperate acts, such as the recent instance where a baby was found with the umbilical cord intact, would be stopped. Today, we have a system where those who step forward early are supported by social workers and given shelter, if necessary. There are many instances where both mother and baby have been helped this way and have moved on with their lives. The system does not discriminate, and will help all those who come forward, local or foreign alike. I assure Members that the help is given with great sensitivity and, in really desperate situations, nothing will compromise the safety and health of mother and child. Contrary to what Ms Irene Ng thought, I can assure her that there is no obsession about obtaining the biological information of the mother. The priority must always be the safety of the mother and the child. In fact, we walk her through the process and allow her, at her own time and own pace, to give us whatever information that she is prepared to share with us. 11.30 am Mr Sin Boon Ann has alluded to the point that for baby drops to be effective, they have to be easily accessible and known to those who are likely to use them. Sir, based on my staff's consultations with their American counterparts, the US experience continues to be contentious as to whether baby drops are a good approach or whether publicity focusing on engaging pregnant girls early in their pregnancy might be a safer approach for both the mother and baby. For baby drops to work, almost every front door has to be a potential baby drop, as those in desperation will not be in any frame of mind to go to designated places. That is why the role of the community and the public is important. Will a change of legislation and the setting up of baby drops really stop the abandonment of babies? Countries that have implemented baby drops have not seen a decrease in baby abandonment. In the US, some see the "Baby Drops" as an encouragement to abandon the babies. According to a State Legislative report by the US National Conference of State Legislatures, the Baby Drops were not "receiving" as many babies as expected. There were still cases of abandonment in public places, even with the presence of "baby drops". Ms Ng spoke about the Safe Haven law in the United States. An article in the Straits Times last week (12th March 2003) had this headline "US safe haven laws fail to save babies". In the Los Angeles County, despite its Safe Haven law, 14 babies were found abandoned in 2001, and 11 of them died. Not a single woman that year took advantage of the Safe Haven law. In 2002, 10 babies were safely surrendered, but 13 were abandoned, eight of whom died, according to county statistics. Baby drops are only a piecemeal solution to unwanted pregnancies and they may have unintended consequences. Ms Irene Ng is right that we should not think of baby abandonment as only a woman's problem. We must educate the men too. If the men are more responsible and stand by the women they made pregnant, then the women are less likely to abandon their babies. Indeed, Sir, everyone has a part to play. Parents too have an important role in the education process. Last year, there were about 850 births among teenage mothers. We should be mindful not to tar all teenage pregnancies as `unwanted' pregnancies. However, besides MOE's sexuality programmes in schools, MCDS, together with community partners, has also implemented two sexuality education programmes for teenagers and their parents. They are called - No Apologies and WAIT (Why Am I Tempted). Both are designed to help young people develop responsible attitudes and character traits and to assist parents to work with their teenagers on sexuality issues. So, men whose partners are grappling with unwanted pregnancies must be more responsible and encourage and support the women to seek help. The community can help by being alert to pregnant women in distress. Parents can be good role models and be supportive if their children get into trouble. If we, each and every one, do our part, we can be a more caring community. More babies will be saved. Sir, I begun my response this morning to Members earlier by talking about babies, and ending it now by talking about babies as well. I cannot emphasise the importance of babies to Singapore more. The causes of falling fertility are many and complex, and it is of concern to us, as a country and as individuals. Our package of incentives and support programmes may take time for it to be effective. We may need to modify them along the way. I thank my parliamentary colleagues for their many suggestions, such as to look at policies of the Nordic countries, expand the infant care support and many other useful comments. We would certainly look into all of these to see how else we should approach this matter. This is a national problem. We need all your support to see how we can help resolve this together. May I now call upon MOS, Mr Chan Soo Sen, to reply to the second part of the cuts.

I would like to thank the Minister for his reply. I have three points for clarification. The first point is that I would like the Minister to confirm whether or not I heard him right when he said that the Government will not prosecute a mother who, in desperation, decides to leave the baby at the appropriate centre, that is, all forms of prosecution and not just the act of leaving the baby behind. Will the Minister please confirm this?

If a mother walks into the shelter, we will walk her through the process. If she is a Singaporean and she has not contravened any law, she will not be prosecuted. The act of coming to the shelter means that she is not abandoning the baby and, therefore, she will not be prosecuted for abandonment. But if she is a foreign worker or she is of any other citizenship, other laws will probably have to come into play.

Would not the Minister therefore agree with me that the prospect of prosecution under other laws itself may serve as ---

This is not a clarification, Mr Sin.

Okay, I will save this for another day. My second clarification is this. The Minister has said that legalising baby drops is going to endanger the baby more. I do not understand why. Perhaps the Minister can explain.

Sir, our view is that, by having a baby drop, we may not be able to trace the mother nor know the background of the family nor what we can do with the baby. If the mother comes to our shelter, we can do a lot more. What I have been demonstrating this morning is that the system that we have in place is indeed helpful to both mother and baby. The statistics that I have given earlier this morning demonstrate that there is a system that can help the mother walk through the process. If the baby is dropped somewhere, it will be very difficult for us to trace the parents and help them through the process. But, at this point in time, Sir, if a baby is dropped, I would like to call upon the community to also help us. As I mentioned in my speech, every front door is almost a baby drop, so, the role of the community is also important to help us in this sensitive issue.

Sir, how would not knowing the background of the mother endanger the baby any more than if she just leaves him anonymously somewhere else?

Sir, at the end of the day, we have to look at both the welfare of the mother and baby. The mother must have been very, very desperate to abandon the baby. So, there must be something that we can do to help her to walk through the process. If you ask me, I would prefer the mother to keep the baby, because we want the baby to be raised in the comfort of his or her natural parents. If we can help them as a family, that would be a better outcome than just to leave the baby by the roadside, and for us to deal with the baby alone. I am not saying that if the baby is dropped, we are not helping the baby. We will. But together, with the mother, we can do a lot more to ensure that her family is being helped.

That is precisely my point, is it not? By providing a safe place for the baby to be dropped will enhance the safety of the baby, rather than to leave things as they are at the moment where babies are just left off at public places.

This is not a point of clarification, Mr Sin.

Can I seek a further clarification?

Yes.

Would the Minister agree with me that with legal baby drop, it reduces the chance of babies being left in places which are not frequented by people. Even in the statistics cited by the Minister for the other countries, there are legal baby drops which reduce the number of babies being abandoned at places that are not desirable. I did not say that, by legalising baby drops, we are going to do away with abandonment of babies. That is not the point. The point is that it gives the babies a safe haven for them to be legally placed and be put up for adoption.

I do not necessarily disagree with the Member that if we have a baby drop, it may help. But we have to look at the experiences of other countries and look at the experience of the system that we have in place. The system we have in place, so far, is effective. Maybe there is a lack of publicity. That is why we will step up the publicity efforts to encourage mothers, who want to give up their babies, to come to the shelters. The statistics that I cited earlier show that the system works. So far this year, out of the five who have been abandoned, two have been found and the first one was still born. I agree with Mr Sin that one baby dying is one too many. We have to find a way to help them. We are confident that with the current system in place, we will be able to help all mothers who either want to give up their babies or whatever their choices may be.

Mr Sin, I think we can pursue this another day. Mr Chan.

Sir, allow me now to address the remaining questions relating to families, ie, "Strong and Stable Families". Sir, Singapore families are by and large in good shape, although we have to admit that they are under some pressure. It would be helpful to promote support options for the family. The community can support the family. Families, in turn, should support one another as well as the community. We have many partners under our Many Helping Hands approach. We actively consult them as we do not own all the wisdom on family issues. In fact, everybody can be a family expert. One important partner in family is the Committee on Family. This is headed by Mr Noel Hon. This is a people-sector led committee. It has, over the years, provided invaluable advice on family initiatives. Another committee that has allowed us to tap the strength of the community is the Family Matters! Singapore Committee, which I chair, but I have to say that most of the work is done through the various sub-committees headed by people from the people sector. We are carrying out the blueprint developed by the former Public Education Committee on Family or PEC which was then chaired by Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon. Over 40 of the 70 PEC recommendations are being implemented, some 18 months after the PEC Report was released. Some of the initiatives undertaken include partnership with the Singapore History Museum to organise a wedding exhibition aimed at reinforcing the importance of marriage as an institution, and a recent collaboration with the advertising industry to launch annual Family Matters Awards for the most pro-family TV/radio commercials and print advertisements because we believe that people look at advertisements quite seriously. In May this year, we will be collaborating with Media Development Authority (MDA) and Institute of Advertising Singapore to organise a regional broadcast conference focusing on how the media impacts on the values of the young and the families. I will also later highlight two key recommendations of the PEC, namely, Romancing Singapore and the School Family Education programme. The Family Matters! Singapore Committee continues to be the people-movement that the PEC envisaged. Unfortunately, Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon is not here. In fact, I want to thank her for the good work done at the PEC as well as for her foresight in putting together an extensive network of people- and private-sector partners. When I succeeded her to be the PEC's Chairman, I continued with her legacy of engaging the people- as well as private-sector agencies. Today, many community partners are leading the initiatives as well as corporate donors, like Singapore Totalisator Board, have come forward to provide substantial funding for the programmes. Sir, Dr Maliki has asked about Romancing Singapore. My Minister has earlier shared with Members the very serious challenges facing us as a result of the changing attitudes towards marriage and procreation. We are now seeing more "young" marriages breaking up. And by "young" marriages, we mean those marriages that break up within five years. The proportion of civil divorces among marriages under five years increased from 9.6% (208 out of 2,178 divorces) in 1990. This 9.6% increased to 15.3% (533 out of 3,491 divorces) in 2001. Muslim divorces of similar marriage duration remained high at 34.7% (467 out of 1,347 divorces) in 2001. Though the number is still small, compared to other countries, divorce is certainly an area of concern and we cannot be complacent about it. 11.45 am It is in this context, and with these concerns in mind, that the Romancing Singapore Festival was initiated. Romancing Singapore is a people-sector initiative led by two private-sector volunteers, Dr Finian Tan and Ms Claire Chiang. It was funded by donations from the Singapore Totalisator Board at about $400,000. It generated good media coverage with 500,000 people participating in over 100 Festival events. The Festival reminds us all to build relationships that are vital to marriage and family. It is not just about getting singles to consider romance. It is as much, if not more, for married couples to nourish their relationships like the case of Mr and Mrs Valberg, a couple in their 70s, who renewed their 50-year marriage vow at a Romancing Singapore event. When asked about the love of her life, Mrs Valberg remarked, "Once, my husband, who is usually very quiet, broke into a love song while we were walking along the Esplanade." Small gestures like these are really romantic. Yes, we need such small acts of romance to keep marriages alive. I have to say that that story is very inspiring to me too.

Hope you do not break into a song!

Sir, perhaps some other day, when my wife is around. Yesterday, Dr Maliki suggested a Men's Movement for men to understand the feelings of women, and for us men to be able to run after the women. I fully concur. While listening to some of the feedback from SDU, as well as SDS, that the Minister talked about, there was one feedback which said that a girl called up SDU and said, "The man you chose for me was really unromantic because at the first dinner we had to go Dutch." I never did that while I was courting in Oxford. There was another interesting story of a man calling up SDU, after the first date, and said, "Can you tell me when I can hold her hand?" I was totally speechless when I heard that. In fact, I wonder if the aim of the movement should be how to be gentlemen. And maybe to learn the wonders of falling in love, staying in love, and being spontaneous in small gestures of romance like Mr Valberg who is in his 70s with 50 years of marriage behind him. However, on a more serious note, while Family Matters! Singapore Committee organises programmes like Romancing Singapore, the Ministry supports VWOs like the Centre for Fathering to run programmes like Father-Child bonding camps - one of the phenomena that we always hear about is that the father had disappeared - couples adventure camps, as well as to conduct talks for single men on how they can be good husbands and fathers. A similar programme is Forum Adam, an initiative started by none other than Dr Maliki in 2001, which aims to provide a platform for Malay men to share challenges as husbands and fathers. My Ministry is working with YWMA Mendaki Family Service Centre, Al Khair Mosque, to start a Father Support Group, following this year's Forum Adam. To have strong marriages, we must ensure that we start them right. In a survey conducted by my Ministry recently, twice the number of participants found marriage preparation courses to be highly useful as compared to a similar survey conducted in 1999. So, perhaps there was a general agreement that such courses are getting to be more important. We are encouraged by these findings. We will make marriage preparation more accessible. One such initiative is the launch of an on-line marriage preparation programme on the "About Family Life" website. That will be in about three months' time, in June this year, so that people who are too busy to come to us can access the website. Assoc. Prof. Ngiam Tee Liang would be happy to know that since last year, a number of Deputy Registrars and Licensed Solemnisers have agreed to expand their role to be Marriage Mentors, and we have developed a training programme for them. A number of them are JPs, grassroots leaders as well as religious leaders. Underlying this initiative is the premise that, being respected members of the community, couples will welcome their advice as well as counsel. We also have the Healthy Marriage Programme, which aims to better prepare Malay/Muslim youths for married life. The programme is a developmental and preventive initiative. It aims at inculcating teenagers with healthy values and positive views about marriage as well as family. Mrs Yu-Foo has called for MCDS to work with agencies like the Ministry of Education to put our young through life skills and character building programmes. I am happy to report that MCDS is implementing the PEC recommendation on the School Family Education Programme. Last year, together with Fei Yue Counselling Centre, the North West, South East and South West CDCs, my Ministry piloted the School Family Education Programme in four schools. The programme has reached out to almost 12,000 people within a year of its implementation. The idea is to reach out to the parents through their children. It equips parents with effective parenting skills, children with life skills, and supports all parents, as well as teachers, to balance career, school life as well as family life. The bonus is that, in the process, in line with my Ministry's vision to promote strong families who help others, parent volunteers now run some of the schools' family life centres and are starting peer support groups. So we are beginning to reach a stage of parents beginning to inspire other parents. We see that the pilot is a success and my Ministry will expand the programme to more schools. My Ministry is also looking into another programme called Journey of Life. It is being developed for students in polytechnics, whereby through experiential learning, students are imbued with healthy attitudes about love, spousal relations, family relationships as well as aging. Sir, my Ministry has been working in partnership not only with the Ministry of Education, but with the people and private sector in family life education. I would also like to report that we are trying all things possible to engage families, and to empower our partners, such as Family Life Ambassadors, through sharing of resources, experience as well as best practices. Working with our partners, we find there is no shortage of bright and creative ideas. Indeed, there is no monopoly of good ideas and wisdom if we can all encourage everybody to come forward and contribute. We communicate our messages through as many channels as possible. One effective way has been through various MediaCorp and MediaWorks TV programmes in all the four languages. Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon has this idea of a TV documentary and that she will be pleased to know that her idea of a TV documentary called "My Home", based on real-life stories of individuals and their families overcoming challenges, telecast over a period of two years, in English and Chinese, since 2000, has already seen four seasons so far. Each episode on average reaches more than 700,000 viewers. Our latest TV family programme on Vasantham Central has also achieved an unprecedented drama viewership rating of 30% of the Indian population. I am told that this is equivalent to the most popular Bollywood movies. So, maybe we are beginning to see Sollywood. Our Malay human interest stories with family life messages in "K Inc" on Channel Suria was consistently among the top 10 programmes broadcast. Besides, we also have other popular TV programmes on parenting, eg, an English TV drama called "First Touch" and the drama "I Not Stupid", which carry our parenting messages. We have used TV stars such as Xiang Yun, Gurmit Singh and top Malay and Indian TV stars to promote the importance of family in TV commercials. We accept the reality that people do not listen to us, Members of this House, but they listen to messages from people whom they really enjoy seeing, eg, film stars. The roadshows in the heartlands and in the central business district featuring comedians such as Jack Neo have also helped widely disseminate family messages, ranging from inter-generational bonds, to parenting as well as marriage. Another channel that we use to communicate our family life messages is the National Family Week. This year, we will adopt the theme "Parenting Teenagers" to help parents better connect with their growing teenagers. For this, I have a personal interest because I do have two teenage sons. So you will see me participating more actively this year in the programme. The programmes will include bonding activities such as "Parent-Teen obstacle challenge" in a TV reality programme, as well as a multi-media contest involving the family unit in the Singapore Street Festival. The Festival, by the way, is organised by the Orchard Road Business Association and supported by several statutory bodies. And just as we try different communication media, depending on our audiences, my Ministry is also paying more attention to inter-generational communication. In July 2002, a Task Force was formed under Family Matters! Singapore Committee to promote the importance of grandparenting and positive inter-generational relationships. We also launched a funding scheme to encourage the private and people sectors to develop and implement programmes that promote inter-generational bonding. At the time when we were young, we remember our grandparents very dearly. I think we do notice that our children do not seem to share such sentiments towards their grandparents, and yet grandparents are potentially a very, very important part in encouraging fellow Singaporeans to have more children. Since 2001, we have celebrated Grandparents Day. I believe we may be the first in the world to celebrate Grandparents Day, during Senior Citizens' Week, and it is done on a larger scale to recognise the contributions of grandparents as well as to honour their important roles. More than 200,000 people signed up for Family Life Education programmes in 2002. Since 2000, participation rates at these programmes have also been increasing at a phenomenal rate of 25% per annum. We could not have done this without some 700 dedicated Family Life Ambassadors who comprise individuals, organisations and corporations from the private as well as the people sectors.

Mr Chan, please speed up your reply. We have a lot of cuts to deal with.

Yes, Sir. That being the case, perhaps I will just conclude by saying that every year we celebrate family three times. In February, we have Romancing Singapore. In May/June, we have the Family Week, and in November, we have the Senior Citizens' Week and Grandparents Day. We involve various sectors to promote family and we have been receiving better and better responses. I characterise the situation of family when I began my reply by saying that family is in good shape, though under pressure. But, on the other hand, we see many people wanting to be part of our effort to promote family. So, we are very encouraged. We are confident that we will do well. 12.00 noon

Sir, despite an MCDS' social attitudes survey of 2001 showing that 98% of Singaporeans polled agreed that they would support and spend time with their elderly parents, I believe the neglect and abuse of the elderly may be on the increase, because of increasing financial and other constraints within the family, and in changes in the sense of duty and filial piety to the elderly. What causes this? Firstly, some of the elderly do not have enough CPF asset or assets to last their remaining years. Others have problems after upgrading to bigger flats because of the downturn in the property market. Early retirement and retrenchment may take further toll not only on the elderly but also on the adult children upon whom they might have depended. The elderly may also be targets of schemes to relieve them of their assets, either from people within the family or from outside the family. Secondly, families are already under stress for time and caregivers' roles. Double incomes are a necessity and people face retrenchments and redundancy. Extended family networks are fast disappearing with increasing pressure on time for work, procreation, childcare, skills retraining, upgrading, continuing education. There is little time for people to spend with their elderly parents. When the elderly become frail, it is even worse. There is often no respite for those who have to look after the elderly. I think medical doctors in the House are familiar with the term "dumping syndrome" to denote the phenomenon of elderly patients with only vague medical problems being brought to A&E departments for admission during festive seasons. In many cases, the medical problems were stable, but the social problems were obvious. Relatives would disappear soon after the old person was admitted only to reappear after Chinese New Year, or whatever festival, was over. Thirdly, elderly people who, in the past, neglected or abused their family members. Others may have been too busy to bond with their children when they were young and may have left them to the care of maids or foster parents to an excessive degree. I think these people would have great difficulty in expecting a high degree of care and concern from their own children when they are old. Just as we have developed a legal and service infrastructure for child abuse and neglect, I believe, because of all these reasons, we should develop a national eldercare programme of support infrastructure for the elderly.

Sir, increasingly, I see elderly residents coming to my meet-the-people session asking for a 1- or 2-room rental flat, because they feel unwanted by their adult children. Many of these elderly people have several children, but they claim that their married children have no place for them, or that they all could not get along. Some would break into tears when they relate how difficult life is at home with their children's families. And several say that if they cannot get a rental flat, that they would rather jump down from a HDB block than to carry on living with their children. Sir, perhaps it might be better for them to live apart if it means a happier life for them all. But I am also concerned that this might point to a trend in which children, valuing their own privacy and space, have been making their elderly parents feel unwanted, and are looking to pass on the responsibility of caring for their parents to the State. Rental flats, as we know, are heavily subsidised by the Government. I feel there is a need to educate children from young, but also those who are adults now, on the need to support their aged parents without being forced to do so by the law. And we need to strengthen the values of filial piety in this society. We must try to check this trend early to make sure that we do not see more and more elderly parents coming forward to say that they feel unwanted by their children, especially given our greying population. At the same time, we need to step up our services for the elderly, so that they can spend their days enjoying programmes at these service centres and perhaps return home only at night. This might minimise the friction at home. Sir, can I ask the Minister what is being done in this direction? I would also like to highlight another trend of singles, especially women, bearing the main responsibility of caring for their elderly parents. Some are finding it very hard to cope. They say that they get little help from their married siblings. They need support. I would urge MCDS to look into this growing trend and see how we can support singles who care for their elderly parents.

Sir, it has been three-plus years since the IMC on the Ageing Population published its report with 78 recommendations covering six broad areas in which attention was required to ready us for the successful greying of our population. Various Ministries and agencies have moved at different speeds to act on the recommendations under their purview. The Health Ministry has launched many initiatives, but I believe significant fine-tuning will need to be done as it monitors whether the desired progress and outcomes are being achieved. The Transport Ministry has responded in part, but has made it quite clear that the requirement to move the masses efficiently must take precedence over the needs of the small numbers of the elderly. The Ministry of Manpower has already so much it needs to do with refocusing CPF back to the original intent of taking care of the basic retirement needs of account holders and, at the same time, facilitate continuing employment of older workers. It does not want to open another front on special accounts for homemakers. So its response is simply that this should be achieved through the current provision of voluntary contribution. I can understand all their reasons and priorities. However, we have been so farsighted in identifying the impending demographic challenge so early and recognising the need for across-the-board cooperation between multiple agencies that need to act together to have convened the Inter-Ministerial Committee in the first place, it will be a shame to lose this good start, especially in danger now, as we face the toughest times that we have had to weather since the earlier days of our history as an independent nation. I am concerned that in the midst of addressing pressing economic issues, we sideline and neglect to push onwards with the implementation of the recommendations. We should persist even while dealing with the current hardships. It is important because many of the policies and measures involve interlocking components of our infrastructure on the one hand, and attitudes and mindsets on the other, that will take a long time to do, to change and to take root. Although we say that it will hit almost 20% of over 65s only in 2030, the truth of the matter is that our rate of ageing will increase exponentially from 2010, which is not so far away. Sir, would the Minister, who has the unenviable task in MCDS of coordinating our efforts on the elderly, give us an update and his assessment of progress in the implementation of the IMC recommendations, and what are the priorities and main challenges for the next few years? Particularly important, I believe, will be the efforts directed to helping caregivers cope, as this will be a growing group which deserves our attention and support.

Dr Warren Lee, you can take your two cuts together.

Sir, I recognise that there are provisions in our laws to protect the elderly, such as the Women's Charter, the Penal Code, the Maintenance of Parents Act and the Mental Disorders and Treatment Act. However, there is, currently, no over-arching legal framework, like the Protection of Children and Young Persons Act. There are, apparently, lots of complex grey areas and a lack of consensus about what constitutes elder abuse. There are difficulties about what constitutes a minimum standard of care for the elderly. If we are to go after family members for delay in seeking medical care, for example, do we also recognise that the elderly may refuse to accept medical care? If the working adults in the family can barely put food on the table for their own children, how much more can they be expected to provide for their elderly parents? There is a need to balance the independence and personal choice of the elderly who may choose to continue to live in an abusive situation at home, and the role of the State to uphold justice. Perhaps there is a place for a comprehensive Act to provide for the State to assume the role of guardian and protector in selected cases. On the other hand, laws are not enough. We need to provide practical help to families to help them to cope. I would urge the Government to consider two suggestions: firstly, increasing resources for the MCDS' Elderly Development Division to develop a whole new framework of care for the elderly, to increase detection and expertise and to develop a national consensus on the issue as well as to improve on existing institutional and VWO services for the elderly. Just like there are women's clubs and men's clubs, perhaps we also need to have elderly activity clubs along the lines of SAGE and even our senior citizens' clubs, which would form areas of mutual support and help the elderly age gracefully together in small and closely-knit groups. Perhaps the Minister would also consider an elderly protection and care service along the lines of MCDS' Children and Young Persons Service. The emphasis is really not about wayward working adult children but finding workable solutions for families in need.

Sir, going by the latest figures on rental flats, about 66% of those who stay in 1- and 2-room rental flats are singles, widows and divorcees. Most are above 40, with a higher proportion being above 60. All are considered lower income, with household incomes below $800 a month. Sir, one of the greatest problems faced by ageing lower income singles, which I include widows and divorcees as well, are loneliness, depression and the fear of dying alone. They suffer from low self-esteem and a sense of exclusion. The job market in this knowledge-economy often shut the door on them. The marriage option is not always open to them. Most of the singles in this group often find it hard to find a partner, unless they venture further afield to Vietnam and China. But even this has its attendant risks and problems. Sir, it is little help preaching to them to get married. Few of these low income singles mix around beyond the neighbourhood coffeeshop, mainly because of money and transport problems. We need to zoom in on the plight of older singles, many of whom lead depressing and isolated lives. The isolation of older singles, especially the lower income, will become increasingly more prevalent as the population greys. I would like to ask the Minister what is being done to reach out to this group of ageing singles, to make sure that they are integrated into the mainstream community.

Sir, there is a saying with regard to growing old gracefully - use it or lose it. Yes, use your brains, spread your experience and wisdom or you stand to lose them. Keep up the physical activity or you may lose your muscle and strength. As we are one of the fastest ageing societies, the best approach for us to adopt is to ensure that all our elderly, especially our retired, are encouraged to be active physically, mentally and socially in order to maintain good health. This will not only prevent many illnesses but will also result in happier people. Prevention of illnesses and keeping the mind active and healthy should be prioritised. Depression which is more prevalent in the elderly can be prevented by getting the elderly more engaged socially and involving them with new hobbies and purposes in life. We need to do more and facilitate better in achieving total holistic care for the well-being of our elderly. And this should be done island-wide, not just through the Ministry but also through voluntary organisations, grassroots organisations and charitable organisations. Of course, the Ministry of Community Development and Sports should facilitate these organisations in setting up care centres that aim to do this. I believe that the Ministry of Community Development and Sports started care centres a few years ago with the above views in mind, and catering not only for the elderly but also for the children. May I ask what progress has been achieved so far and will this project be further expanded?

Mr Chandra Mohan is not present. Mr Heng Chee How is not present. Ms Braema.

Sir, thank you for allowing me to speak on this topic. We do know that there is a growing number of single women in our midst. Women also tend to live longer, the median age being 80.

4. More women are also prone to long-term illnesses, such as osteoporosis and gynaecological-related problems. And there are also more women without CPF savings. 12.15 pm Thanks to the Ministry of Manpower and the statistics that were released last year, 52% of the 1.5 million inactive CPF holders were women. Of this lot, 330,000 were aged 40 and above. In the singles camp, from the data of the Department of Statistics, 64,000 out of the 193,000 are women aged 35 and above. Widows numbered 11,500; divorcees took 20,600. Median income of singles, I am told, is about $2,000. Widows, divorcees and singles with qualifications of below secondary school level are about 1,000. Against the map of these statistics as well as the access to financial resources, I would like to ask the Ministry whether it is timely perhaps to conduct a comprehensive study on how our women are coping where their financial resources are concerned. What are the services that need to be put in place so that we meet this need before it descends on us? Also, at the same time, let us also look at the roles that women have been playing for the longer time in our society. Till today, they are still the main caregivers taking care of, as we have heard, the elderly, the young people, etc. For doing all that work, at the end of the day, what is it that we are going to give them where financial independence is concerned?

Sir, I would like to thank the Members who have spoken on a matter that is close to our hearts - caring for our aged and preparing for an ageing population. Let me first address the point raised by Ms Braema Mathiaparanam. As Ms Braema Mathiaparanam has pointed out, there are certain segments of our population who are less financially secure. In general, women may need more retirement savings as they tend to live longer than men. For women who have less capacity and opportunity to accumulate financial resources, for example, housewives from low income families with no CPF accounts, the low-income, or lower-educated singles and divorced women, it is even more important for them to develop adequate means and resources to support themselves in their retirement years. Work is still the best form of welfare. And for those who are unable to support themselves, our social safety net schemes would help them. She has asked whether or not we have done a study on how our women are coping. I cannot say for certain that we have done a particular study in this area. But part of the IMC focus is to understand how Singaporeans, in general, including single women who are older, cope with the financial demands of their retirement age. My Ministry is aware that there may be women who need help in coping especially with the impact of economic restructuring. In fact, we have begun dialogues with the three key women's organisations, namely, the Singapore Council of Women's Organisations, the NTUC Women's Committee and the PA Women Integration Network (WIN). The aim, as I said earlier, is to try and help our women folks to explore what are the collaborative opportunities in training and re-skilling of women in areas, such as IT and domestic services. So the long-term goal is to give them some skills so that they can find jobs and develop some financial independence. Together with other key agencies, we will study the long-term financial needs of women, as part of our strategy of taking a more sectoral approach towards addressing the ageing concerns of different groups of Singaporeans. So I would like to assure Ms Braema that we will look into this matter as part of our effort to understand better how Singaporeans are coping in their retirement age. In this regard, the services that are needed will be put in place as and when there are service gaps. Ms Irene Ng spoke about the need to educate our young about supporting their aged parents. Filial responsibility has and will continue to underpin our philosophy of the "family as the first line of support". With an ageing population, smaller families and a rising dependency ratio, we must continue to reinforce these social values. Since 1994, we have been strongly promoting the Singapore Family Values, one of which is filial responsibility. These values are taught in the Civics and Moral Education, a compulsory subject for our primary and secondary students, and Civics at pre-university level. MCDS also undertakes a year-round public education drive to foster positive attitudes towards family and older persons. As part of this effort, we are also stressing strong inter-generational ties and the need to care for our elderly parents, not just their physical and financial needs but also seeing to their emotional and social needs. And Mr Chan Soo Sen has alluded to the Grand Parenting Day that we have started a couple of years ago. The Government has, over the years, introduced tax reliefs and other schemes to encourage Singaporeans to take care of their parents. These schemes include the parent relief, relief for CPF top-up of parents' retirement account and the use of Medisave savings to pay for the parents' hospital bills. Our housing policies encourage Singaporeans to live with or near their parents, and Ms Irene Ng would be pleased to learn that close to 88% of our seniors still live with their families. For the few who do not provide for their parents, the Maintenance of Parents Act provides a legal recourse for the aged parents to seek financial maintenance from these children. Sir, while we promote filial piety, we also empathise with families that are struggling to cope with the demands of caregiving. A few MPs have called for more to be done to help our elderly. Let me assure the House that my Ministry has invested substantially on eldercare and developmental programmes. In fact, our expenditure in this area has more than doubled over the past four years. Sir, Dr Jennifer Lee has asked for an update of the Eldercare Master Plan. Briefly, 86% of the recommendations would be implemented and we are looking into launching a new round of policy deliberations. At the next round of deliberations, we will focus on employment and sectoral needs, especially single elderly, both male and female, and what are the things that we need to do to help them so that they can continue to age actively in Singapore. Sir, as I said earlier, many of the programmes are already in place. For example, we have revised the funding norms to give the VWOs more resources to run programmes, such as day care, befriending and counselling services. Six new day care centres have been set up over the past two years. There are now more support and resources for caregivers, through a caregiver centre and the availability of carers' manuals. Apart from setting up facilities, we have made efforts to develop new capabilities in anticipation of future needs, such as gero-counselling and upgrading the skills of our aged care workers to enable them to deliver a higher quality of service. I have mentioned some of these initiatives yesterday, for example, developing bite-sized eldercare training courses under the National Skills Recognition System. I also like to allude to the point that Dr Jennifer Lee has mentioned about the IMC and whether or not we have been making headway. Sir, one significant breakthrough is that our policies now facilitate the entry of more players into the eldercare industry. This will gradually grow the pool of service providers and the variety of services, hence providing more choices to users. For example, last July, we extended Government subsidy to co-operatives providing services. I am pleased to say that two day care centres run by NTUC Eldercare Co-operative have come on board. We will move towards extending the user subsidy to private providers within the next two years. Sir, a second breakthrough is that we now provide not just eldercare but developmental programmes for the elderly, and opening up additional avenues for our seniors to contribute and remain active. Active aging is still the cornerstone of our philosophy for the elderly. Initiatives include the Active Seniors Programme which has involved 1,200 senior volunteers. We also have nine Neighbourhood Links located in different parts of the island, which encourage inter-generational interaction and mutual help. So these are opportunities which we have created on the ground for the elderly to remain together with the community. A third breakthrough is that starting from April this year, my Ministry will be funding community case management service as a national programme. This is a significant development as it would pave the way for better coordination of community care for our older people. The service has been piloted locally and over 97% of the caregivers surveyed have found the service to be beneficial. This service provides a one-stop entry point for frail elderly who have multiple and complex needs. Case managers will assess the elderly's needs and put together a package of appropriate services and continue to monitor the progress of the individual. We will spend about $400,000 on this programme annually. Over the next couple of years, MCDS will study the feasibility of a one-stop assessment and referral service for our elderly. Such a facility could bring about a quantum improvement in the care of our aged. My Ministry will study this issue closely with the Ministry of Health. Sir, a much needed breakthrough is in terms of employer mindset in hiring older workers. We will work with the Ministry of Manpower and other partners to address this issue, but there is a need for employers to do their part. In this regard, I commend the KK Women's and Children's Hospital and Dr Lee for being a fine example in this respect. Sir, Dr Lily Neo has asked about the progress of the 3-in-1 elderly care centre. She is probably referring to the Tampines 3-in-1 Family Centre, which was set up in 1995, not by my Ministry, but at the initiative of the PAP Community Foundation branch in Tampines. The centre is progressing well and is a good example of how the proximity of services can promote social integration and inter-generational bonding. In planning services, my Ministry will continue to explore co-location of services where there are opportunities to do so. Dr Lily Neo would be pleased to learn that we are currently developing a multi-service centre in Jurong West, which will house services for the young and old under one roof. The centre is expected to be ready by the end of 2004. We will study the benefits of this pilot before expanding the concept to other housing estates. Not all our seniors have families to turn to, and Ms Irene Ng has touched on the needs of one such group - the elderly singles. Our programmes, such as befriending and home help, have succeeded in reaching out to some of these individuals, offering them much needed social and emotional support. Notwithstanding this, we agree that more could be done, particularly for those living alone. Sir, in this regard, we are working towards strengthening the community support network for this group, through developing a manual that will guide agencies on the action to take when they encounter such individuals and how to link them to support services in the community, such as the Neighbourhood Link and the Befriending Service. I spoke about this yesterday as an example of community resilience and that we want to develop support groups for all who are in Singapore for them to continue to have social and emotional support. Dr Warren Lee suggested an Elderly Protection and Care service along the lines of MCDS' Family and Child Protection Service and the Children and Young Persons Act. We agree with Dr Lee that the emphasis must first be on finding workable solutions for the family and not a punitive, legalistic approach. This is why it is best to adopt a multi-agency approach and ride on the established Family Violence Dialogue Group and Networking System, rather than set up a separate machinery and legislation. Any elderly person requiring help can access services through a number of contact points, including the Family Service Centres, GPs, community agencies, MCDS or the hospitals. Healthcare professionals, in particular, are all well placed to identify and refer suspected elderly abuse cases for help. We are actively working to educate those in the Network on how to deal with elderly abuse. We recently ran a seminar on this subject for social service practitioners and health care personnel and made available a booklet entitled 'Understanding Elder Abuse and Neglect - Detecting and Helping'. Sir, the initiatives I have mentioned are part of our overall strategy to prepare Singapore for the challenges of an ageing population. Our approach is threefold - promoting personal responsibility through public education, creating opportunities for our seniors to contribute and play a role, and strengthening our eldercare services to help families cope with caregiving. The challenges are multi-faceted and require a coordinated effort not just among the Government agencies, but also among all sectors of the society. The desired outcome is for our older Singaporeans to age with dignity and to continue to remain healthy, active and secure in their golden years. I think I have addressed most of the concerns.

Dr Maliki, you have five cuts back to back. You can take them altogether.

Sir, on Family Service Centres, I would want to declare my interest as a member of the Ang Mo Kio Family Service Centre. We have heard the initials FSCs for the umpteenth time in this Chamber. Set up in the early 1990s, we now have about 35 FSCs serving a population of 3.3 million people. This works out to approximately 96,000 persons, or 24,000 households, per FSC. I wonder if this is an acceptable ratio of FSCs to households in MCDS' view. Otherwise, is MCDS planning to allow more FSCs to be set up to cater for the growing need of so-called social services in Singapore? Sir, my understanding is that MCDS provides 50% of the recurrent cost of running an FSC that it approves. As I have many questions for the Minister on this cut, I will just go straight to the questions. First, who are the service users of the FSCs? What percentage of the geographical population is the FSC actually serving? 12.30 pm Secondly, on funding justification, what were the outcome measures of FSCs and whether they have been met? Have FSCs been effective? What are the criteria used to assess their effectiveness? What service standards are set, and how are these standards ensured? What criteria are used in granting organisations licensed to operate FSCs? Is there a licensing mechanism in setting up and operating FSCs? Does MCDS license and monitor those FSCs that do not receive funding from the Government? How are these standards assessed in such FSCs? Sir, this latter issue is of importance as, unless FSCs, whether funded by MCDS or not, are subjected to clear guidelines and service standards, residents may be using services from these FSCs without knowing if they have the requisite staff qualification and service standards. Sir, many of the pioneer FSCs are operated by VWOs. However, lately, I note that many of the new FSCs are affiliated to religious institutions. I was informed that in some of these FSCs, there are religious symbols and paraphernalia. In this regard, I would like to ask how does MCDS ensure that these do not become barriers to access by those who do not profess the particular religion of the organisation. How does MCDS ensure that everyone has access and is not disadvantaged by structural characteristics of the FSCs? In short, what is the MCDS' policy on this matter? Sir, another critical issue relates to the access to services, ie, the language proficiency of the staff in the FSCs. Not everyone speaks English, especially the elderly and low-income families, who are the bulk of the service users. Are there guidelines to ensure that every FSC has a sufficient range of staff members who are able to speak all the official languages, to ensure access is not denied through language gaps? I would also encourage MCDS to monitor issues of cross-cultural interaction between helpers and services users. My next cut is on domestic violence. Sir, I would like to also declare that I am the adviser to a Centre called Promoting Alternatives to Violence. Sir, yesterday we heard about the start of Gulf War II. We have talked about the devastating impact of terrorism on people. Yet, for generations, another form of terrorism has been taking place in our midst, ie, terrorism in our homes. Domestic violence, which encompasses psychological and physical terrorism, has a debilitating effect on the family. The 1997 amendment to the Women's Charter has opened doors for victims and their families to seek help. We also know that the first source of help for the victims of violence is the police. I must applaud MCDS and the Singapore Police Force for spearheading the National Family Violence Police Networking System, which allows victims needing help to go to Family Service Centres. This system has been in place for five years. I would like to know what is the extent of the problem now. How many incidents of violence have been reported to the police in the last five years? I have heard that, when incidents of violence occur and families call the police for assistance, there is a tendency for some police officers to downplay the violence, because they perceive it as a private domestic quarrel. In this regard, I would like to ask what is the police protocol with regard to handling domestic violence cases. Even with the protocol in place, what is being done by way of monitoring to ensure that these protocols are being adhered to? Sir, my concern is that victims of violence are already being disempowered. It takes a great deal of courage and will for them to seek help. When attempts of help are thwarted by well-intentioned officers, who sometimes confuse family violence with marital and family disputes, it is harder for the victims to come forward again. Some clients actually tell social workers that abusers tell them that it is no point seeking help, as no one would believe them. Sir, all they are asking for is for the violence to stop, not for the relationship to end. Perhaps, this message needs to be stressed to the very people whose mandate is to stop violence, ie, the police. Thus, my question is: how does MCDS work with the police in ensuring that cases of domestic violence receive appropriate and immediate attention? What are the legal obligations of the police to help? Sir, this is critical in repeated cases of abuse that we see - because of what is known as the "battered women" syndrome, ie, the sense of helplessness or the fear of further abuse to them and their children - many of these victims are extremely fearful to seek help. I would like to ask the Minister how are such cases helped. Would MCDS consider a system like the one in Australia where, in very serious cases of domestic abuse, the police can apply what is known as an interim protection order? Sir, in the case of child abuse, there are laws to remove children from abusive homes. In cases of violence in the home, eg, in cases of elder-abuse, spousal violence, are there laws that give the police the mandate to remove adults from their homes when they are abused? Sir, from time to time, we hear of cases of victims in cohabitative relationships being abused. While they can seek private summonses, there is no formal protection accorded to them. How is domestic violence with regard to such couples handled? MCDS has indicated that it is going to look into this matter. I would like to ask what is the status of the situation now. In the light of the recent murder cases involving couples who have resorted to the most extreme form of violence - and some of them are in cohabitative relationships - does MCDS plan to deal with violence in an intimate relationship? Sir, whatever the reasons, violence can and should never be condoned. It is our moral responsibility not only to respect but to protect the dignity of individuals and families from abuse. The world may be turbulent, and war may be going on as we speak. We must continue to strive for peace. Let peace begin within the four walls of our homes. As we deal with domestic violence, there is what is called a personal protection order (PPO), which can be taken up by victims to protect themselves from further abuse. It is an instrument and an avenue for them in this regard. I would like to ask the Minister how many personal protection orders have been issued to victims of abuse in the last five years and, if the trend is increasing, whatever the reasons may be, will greater resources be allocated in addressing this trend? Sir, violence does not occur once. There is such a thing that is called the cycle of violence. Thus, many of the victims are protected by PPOs from further abuse. However, because violence occurs again, there is what is called a breach of PPOs. I would like to ask how many cases of PPOs have been breached. How does the police determine a breach? I ask these questions because I know of many situations where victims are told by the courts and their social workers that, should a breach occur, all they need to do is to call the police. However, when they seek police assistance, they perceive that no action is taken although, according to documents given to them in court, a breach has occurred. It is even harder for them when psychological abuse takes place in the form of threats and harassment, as these are often difficult to prove. Sir, I am not questioning the professionalism of the police force. Like many others, I am proud of their achievements. I know that they maintain high standards. However, I would like to know what happens when a person breaches an order, ie, what kind of action is taken when a breach occurs. In the most recent year, what is the breakdown of the different kinds of action taken for breach cases? As one of the key stakeholders of the National Family Violence Networking System, what is MCDS' position or policy on breach cases? How does it work with the police in this regard? Sir, whatever the reasons, violence is disrespectful behaviour. Violence is also about making a choice and, with choices, come consequences. When an abuser breaches the PPO, he is in fact breaking the law and, when someone breaks the law, there are punishments to be meted out. Thus, the issue of breach of PPOs is important, because we need to send the message to both victims and perpetrators that the law has to be respected. The actions of the relevant agencies, eg, the police and MCDS, must also reflect this very same message. I am also aware that, with issues of interpersonal violence, getting the cooperation of victims when action is taken is sometimes difficult, as victims do back out. This is expected, as no one wants the member of the family to be convicted. However, we also need to keep in mind that reporting a person for breaking the law is not - and I stress, is not - about breaking up the family. It is about stopping violence and, as I mentioned earlier, we want to stop abuse and help families rebuild their relationships. By doing so, we can keep the family unit intact. Sir, part of preventing a breach from happening is the issuance of Mandatory Counselling Orders by the court to ensure that abusers and victims of violence receive counselling services. This is laudable, as we know that families experiencing violence need to deal with the trauma of violence. I have heard from many social work colleagues how, with the introduction of counselling orders, the entire family experiencing the violence gets an opportunity to deal with the violence in their home. MCDS should be congratulated for including these amendments in the Women's Charter. It can, I believe, contribute to stronger family bonds and healthier family relationships. Since the inception of counselling orders, I would like to ask the Minister: 1) How many counselling orders have been issued in the last five years? 2) For each of the five years, what is the proportion of counselling orders issued to the number of personal protection orders issued? 3) Is this seen as an acceptable proportion? 4) What is the likely explanation for this, and what happens to the rest of the cases that were not given counselling orders? I have worked with families which have been mandated to come for counselling and, though there is resistance from some of them in the beginning, when they see the value of how their families can be helped, they become open to the counselling process. I would like to ask the Minister what are MCDS' assessment and plans on how we can reach out to more families experiencing violence, through the counselling order process. Have the experiences of other countries been studied in this regard, and what are the outcomes? The issues of family violence, though small in number in comparison with other countries, are a concern for us in Singapore. The impact of family violence on children growing up in homes has been documented in other countries. We know also of how adult survivors of violence have difficulty coping with relationships when they have grown up in violent homes. I am not talking about physical violence alone; emotional and psychological abuse is often more debilitating than physical violence. Thus, reaching out to these families who actually take the first step to seek help through the application of a PPO is critical. The counselling orders reach out not only to victims and abusers but, more importantly, perhaps to the hidden victims of violence, ie, the children. These children may grow up learning and internalising that violence is part of their lives. Studies have shown that this can happen. We must stop family violence, and I urge the Ministry to continue working with the courts in acknowledging the importance of counselling orders in helping address the problem of family violence. As we talk about the children, I want to wrap up my last cut with the issue of teenage birth and delinquency. Sir, issues of delinquency and teenage pregnancies are inter-related. We have heard that statistics show that they are starting to move towards an increasing trend. I cannot help but notice it also, as I see many teenagers getting pregnant, some forced to get married, others choose abortion. While the girls are getting pregnant, the boys are getting into trouble with the law, either due to their sexual behaviours or sometimes due to other anti-social and criminal behaviours. If not assisted, we are breeding potentially new multi-problem families. Who are these kids? Is it part and parcel of a country's development that we have such issues of juvenile delinquency and teenage pregnancies? I recognise that dealing with youth problems is not an easy task and requires the collaboration of many parties. The Government has set up the Inter-Ministry Committee on Juvenile Crime a couple of years ago. I am sure the Committee has done much to curtail the incidences of juvenile crime. But the problem of teenage pregnancy is a serious one as, often times, the future of these children is at stake. As I mentioned earlier, I have seen cases of 16 and 17-year-olds, who are still dependent on their parents, now becoming parents themselves and have dependants of their own. Sir, I have also called earlier for a detailed study of these youngsters, not just the girls but also the boys. What is their profile like? Are they not fitting into the education system and its demands? The Ministry of Education has argued that streaming will allow them to study at their own pace, and should enable them to fit into the system well. Were these kids wrongly streamed then? I urge the Ministry to work with MOE to conduct a study to allow us to understand the problem better and to develop more preventive programmes in this regard. Sir, delinquency does not happen overnight. Social scientists have identified the stage of pre-delinquency where children begin to manifest early signs of delinquency. I would like to ask whether the Ministry works with schools in identifying pre-delinquents. If so, how many pre-delinquents are identified every year and what is being done to assist them? Sir, like the response given by MOE, I am sure MCDS will also tell us that the role of dealing with the issue is not theirs alone. Certainly, parents must play a part. The Children and Young Persons Act was amended in 2001 to allow courts to instruct parents to be involved in the rehabilitation process of children. In this regard, I would like to ask the Minister how many parents have been involved in the rehabilitation process of their children since the amendment of the Act took effect. Are both parents actively involved in the rehabilitation or only the mothers are involved, with the fathers missing again? What are some of the problems that MCDS face in getting parents to be involved in the rehabilitation process? How are these problems overcome, and how successful have these efforts been? We have seen the plight of many young teenage mothers in the US dependent on the Government for aid and continuing the poverty cycle. We cannot allow this to happen to our youth. They are our future, and we cannot allow them to ruin their own future and, in that regard, our country's future. 12.45 pm

Sir, like my colleague before me, Dr Maliki, I am also concerned about juvenile delinquency. Sir, the figures released by the Police recently showed that the number of juveniles arrested last year rose by an alarming 55.8%. More than 2,200 juveniles were arrested, with students forming the bulk of those arrested. The number of juveniles arrested for rioting increased by 138.7% to 179 persons, and for simple thefts, the number arrested increased by 116.6% to 483 juveniles. It was estimated that 85% of these juveniles arrested were first-time offenders. Addressing juvenile crimes cannot just be the concern of the Police. As mentioned by Dr Maliki, the parents, the educators and the community must all play a part in instilling the right values in our youths. An Inter-ministerial Committee on Youth Crime has been in existence for a number of years already. Are the recommendations and the initiatives of this Committee and the programmes of the many agencies that are involved in youth activities preventive enough? Are our interventions reaching out to youths at risk early enough before it becomes a crime statistic? Could the Minister tell us what new initiatives his Ministry will be undertaking to arrest the rising youth crime rate? Is he satisfied that there is enough coordination by the various Ministries and agencies to effectively tackle this urgent problem?

Sir, Singapore has undergone major changes in the economy, as well as in our social structure over the last three years. In fact, there are also major changes in the region and around the world. These are tumultuous times. With the outbreak of the Iraqi war, the world will once again be plunged into another crisis and it is yet uncertain how it will eventually turn out. One thing is for sure - more changes in the world can be expected. Sir, amidst all these major changes, I am concerned that our younger generation, which grew up in a relatively secure and prosperous environment, may not be prepared for the challenges that are coming their way. They may be somewhat detached, somewhat indifferent to the happenings in the world. On the other hand, trends in juvenile crime are most worrying. The statistics that are shared by Mr Charles Chong a while ago tell us why. Sir, we need to do more to help our youths and help prepare them for the future. We need to understand their aspirations and their concerns. We need to engage them and give them a clear sense of direction and purpose. Our youth programmes and activities must be relevant to them. We must help them stay connected and stay out of trouble. For this reason, Sir, I would like to ask the Minister if he could elaborate on the youth programme that comes under his Ministry. What are the main focus and objectives of the youth programme? How do we measure the effectiveness of the programme in engaging our youths and preparing them for the challenges of the future? How do we reach out to the youths to involve them in the programme? Sir, in line with the spirit of remaking, I would like to suggest to the Minister to consider undertaking a thorough review of the youth programme to ensure it remains effective and relevant. The review should be conducted by the young people for the young people. In this way, we can ensure that the outcome will be relevant to them. As I am no longer young, it will not be appropriate for me to propose what the review should involve. Sir, I would also like to propose to the Government to consider appointing a Minister or a Minister of State to be in charge of youth development. He will be responsible for spearheading new initiatives aimed at engaging our youths. This will provide greater mandate and sharper focus on the youth programme.

Sir, I am quite happy to receive this MCDS booklet on "Key Social Statistics - Singapore 2002" recently. On its back page, it has 19 toll-free hotlines to various services that Ministries offer. However, I cannot seem to find a crisis hotline number. Is there no such service or is the service not important? I remember that a crisis hotline is available and widely publicised inside army camps for soldiers having problems in crisis or feeling suicidal. I believe that that service counselling hotline has been effective in reducing suicides for soldiers having suicidal thoughts. When citizens are faced with violence, crime or disorder, they know how to call "999". When faced with fire or the outbreak of fires, they know how to call "995". But when overwhelmed by a sense of helplessness and contemplating suicide, there is no easy number to call to for help. An easy to remember hotline number like "444" or in Chinese, "si, si, si", meaning "die, die, die" should be made available for citizens in crisis to call to for help, especially when they are contemplating suicide. Manned by trained professional counsellors, such a last call for help could be a matter of life and death for that suicidal person, overwhelmed by that sense of helplessness and loss. While I understand that such crisis helplines are provided by VWOs, like the SOS, the number is not well-publicised nor easily remembered. An easy-to-remember and well-publicised national helpline number should be set up to supplement the works of the VWOs. This is especially critical in these difficult times, as we observe a higher incidence of elderly suicides. I hope the Ministry can look into this request and provide this additional and important service.

Sir, I thank Dr Maliki for raising some of the issues. Let me take them one at a time. As we would know, Family Service Centres (FSCs) are neighbourhood-based focal points of family resource. They provide services such as casework and counselling, information and referral, and family education. Sir, MCDS supports 35 Family Service Centres island-wide. One more FSC will start operating in Chua Chu Kang this year. Each FSC serves an average of 20,000 households within a neighbourhood. Last year, the FSCs served an average of one out of every five households within their service boundary. Sir, to enhance the effectiveness of the FSCs, my Ministry, together with the National Council of Social Service (NCSS), introduced the Programme Evaluation System (PES) and Customer Satisfaction Surveys in all FSCs in 2001. Sir, I am pleased to report that 80% of the FSCs have met the standards set by MCDS and NCSS. We are currently working with NCSS and FSCs to develop a set of best practices and service quality standards. Sir, as part of the standards, we expect FSC services to be open to all families, regardless of socio-economic class or race or religion. Our records show that FSCs' clients generally do not face language barrier when seeking help from FSCs. Moreover, we expect all funded FSCs to operate on a secular basis to help families who come to them. There are, however, some family service providers which do not receive funding from MCDS. They have been set up as community initiatives to serve the specific needs of their target group in the locality. My Ministry does not monitor them. However, they will have to ensure that they meet the needs of their constituents who support their programmes. My Ministry and the National Council of Social Service will be most happy to advise and work with the providers to better improve their effectiveness. Sir, I would not go into the details of the Programme Evaluation System. I would be most happy to provide this to Dr Maliki, and there are about eight FSCs known to MCDS which are not funded by MCDS but some of them are funded through NCSS. So, there is a way for us to work with them on how we can improve their effectiveness. On the issue of domestic violence, I am glad that Dr Maliki sees it as a form of terrorism. I would be most happy to provide some of the specific details to Dr Maliki's questions. But let me address some of the concerns on a more general note. Dr Maliki's questions about domestic violence centre on three main areas: firstly, the trend in domestic violence in the last five years; secondly, how Police handle domestic violence; and thirdly, how cases of non-spousal violence are handled. Sir, between 1998 and 2002, the number of Personal Protection Order (PPO) applications averaged 2,866 cases per year. More than half (about 52%) are issued with PPOs. The number of breach of PPOs averaged at 147 cases per year. The average number of persons placed on counselling is 770 per year. I would just like to add that as a result of the downturn, the number of casework and counselling cases that we have seen through the FSCs for 2001 was 10,300 and it went up to 11,200 families in 2002. This is an increase of 9%. Breaches of PPOs are considered offences and the perpetrator is liable on conviction to a fine or imprisonment or both. The Police investigate all cases of breach and either issue warnings or put the perpetrators in the lock-up. For persistent perpetrators, the Police will institute prosecution. PPOs for children are also available to protect them from adult perpetrators, without having to remove them from their homes. And in the case of severe violence, the Police will not hesitate to apply the Penal Code to bring the perpetrator to task. So the example of the Australian practice that Dr Maliki gave, we already have the provision for the Police to handle such cases. As research has shown that not all perpetrators or victims benefit from counselling, there is a set of criteria to screen out those who are less amenable to counselling. Their outcomes of counselling are monitored, and these will be reviewed against the criteria to ensure that it is indeed targeting those who will turn over a new leaf with counselling. As Dr Maliki is aware, we adopt a multi-agency approach in addressing domestic violence. The established Family Violence Dialogue Group and Networking System allows anyone to access help through any of the agencies that they get in touch with. The system also focuses on preventing domestic violence through on-going public awareness and education. The latest effort in public education, for example, addresses dating violence as a preventive measure. Sir, we will continue to learn from other countries on how to address domestic violence and what measures work and what do not, so that our efforts will help to reduce violence in the families, as also mentioned by the Member. On the point of the protocol and the specific questions regarding Police action, I think these questions can be directed to the Ministry of Home Affairs. I will be most happy to assist the Member to redirect the questions to MHA for us to provide a more comprehensive answer on some of the queries which have been raised by the Member. Let me turn now to the points raised by Dr Maliki, Mr Gan and Mr Charles Chong regarding our youth and juvenile delinquents. Youth, aged 10-30 years, forms about 28% of our population. We must see how we can help them develop their potential and mature into socially responsible citizens, with a strong sense of belonging and rootedness in Singapore. Like youths the world over, our young people are of a diverse group, with different needs, depending upon their age, education and interests. As Mr Gan has pointed out, their aspirations and expectations are changing rapidly and are quite different from those of the older generation. How we engage our youths must therefore be tailored to the segment that we want to reach. Thus, many players, Government, non-government and even private sector organisations, are involved in a wide range of youth programmes today. Mr Chong, Mr Gan and Dr Maliki have expressed concerns about juvenile delinquency. Dr Maliki has also raised about teenage pregnancies, out-of-school youths and families at risk. Over the last five years, about 2% of the total number of births were from teenage mothers. I wish to assure Dr Maliki that the numbers have not been increasing. In fact, it decreased from 953 in 2000 to 849 in 2002. Nevertheless, MCDS, together with the community partners, will continue to conduct relevant programmes that target both the teenagers and their parents. For example, we have two sexuality education programmes, which I have mentioned earlier, that promote abstinence until marriage and are designed to help people develop positive character traits and to assist parents to work with their teenagers on sexuality issues. 1.00 pm As for juvenile delinquency, the Minister for Home Affairs has responded earlier that the rise in youth crime is part of the overall increase in crime rate. We agree that juvenile delinquency, problems of families at risk, and out-of-school youths are best addressed through a coordinated inter-agency approach. That is the key focus of the Inter-Ministry Committee on Youth Crime (IMYC) chaired by Assoc. Prof. Ho Peng Kee. As further support of a coordinated approach, my Ministry is also working with our strategic partners to build integrated case management systems. The systems will enable service providers to consult with each other on the common families whom they are working with. This will reduce duplication of work and ensure there is better coordination among the service providers. Of course, the principle of confidentiality will govern the workings of the systems. Sir, my Ministry agrees with Dr Maliki on the importance of identifying and helping potential premature school-leavers. For pupils who have persistent tardiness or truancy, the schools will undertake a pastoral role in providing advice and counselling. Schools may also refer such pupils to external agencies, such as self-help groups or voluntary welfare organisations for their assistance. Programmes, such as Project Reach and PAL are coordinated efforts by various agencies targeted at early school-leavers who are at risk youths. Since the Children and Young Persons Act was amended in October 2001, parents of about 124 juvenile offenders have been given mandatory orders. We are in the process of assessing whether such mandatory orders are successful. The assessment will focus on whether there is an improvement on the parent/child relationship. In our preliminary studies, we are encouraged to hear from the parents that they are now better equipped to manage and communicate with their children. Sir, Mr Gan Kim Yong and Mr Charles Chong have asked how we can effectively engage our young. The National Youth Council aims to empower mainstream youths with the values and the skills to thrive and succeed in a global world. It engages youths by giving them the space to develop and allowing them to form their own views through experiential learning. The Council supports youths and youth organisations through grants, awards, national and international programmes. For example, it administers the Youth Development Fund which provides youths with seed funding to run community programmes. NYC also supports the Youth Expedition Project (YEP), where youths undertake community projects in the regional countries. Through the project, youths would have the opportunities to reflect on issues concerning the economic, social and cultural developments of the country that they visit, as well as Singapore. Both programmes encourage youths to take the leap to initiate and develop their areas of potential and interest. Mr Gan and Mr Chong would appreciate that the impact of many of these programmes would only be felt over time. So where possible, proxy or interim indicators have been used to measure their effectiveness, and these include indicators such as the outreach of the programme, completion rate, and participants' evaluation of the programme. Periodic youth surveys are done which provide insight as to whether we are moving towards our objective. Let me share with Members one example in which Mendaki has been able to reach out to a group of youths who are undertaking a project under the NYC, called Service Learning. We have matched that particular group of youths or young Singaporeans to run a reading programme for low income families. These are some of the initiatives that are in place to help us engage the youths so that they understand better what are the challenges facing Singapore. Mr Gan also asked if we would review and revamp major youth programmes. I would like to assure the Member that all major programmes are reviewed periodically. What is more critical is whether there are gaps in the way we look at youth issues today, given the complexity of the subject and the numerous players involved. We must ensure that our existing policies are in line and new policies are introduced, if necessary. Relevant programmes can then follow. So, with this in mind, last year my Ministry formed a committee chaired by my Permanent Secretary, Ms Lim Soo Hoon, sitting there, and involving officials from MOE, MHA, MINDEF, NYC, MOF and PA. I want to point to Ms Lim because Mr Gan said that the committee should be chaired by a young person. She is indeed young, in fact, younger than I am. This Committee will review and coordinate existing youth programmes, identify gaps and propose new policies or programmes, as appropriate. As the Committee is still new, let us give it some time to do its work. Sir, I think I have addressed most of the issues. May I invite Minister of State, Mr Chan, to reply to Mr Chia's question.

Before Mr Chan replies, Dr Maliki has got something to say.

Just a point of clarification. What about the cases of inter-personal violence among non-married couples, ie, the cohabitation group? They are not protected. They cannot get PPO. I understand that MCDS will look into it. What is the status on that?

Sir, I am sorry. I do not have the figures here, but I will be most happy to provide Dr Maliki the figures on this particular question. Can I invite Minister of State, Mr Chan, to reply to Mr Chia's question?

Sir, I am just responding to Mr Steve Chia's point about national helplines. We do have two national helplines. One is by the Samaritans of Singapore (SOS). The number is 1800-221-4444. This is for people who feel desperate, discouraged or in distress, in other words, with suicidal tendencies. Every year, they receive about 37,000 calls. About 90% are non-suicidal and they very often refer these cases to other agencies. The other helpline is the National Family Centre hotline. It is 1800-838-0100. This is for people with any social problems and who need help from Family Service Centres. We will accept the point by Mr Steve Chia that both these numbers can be better publicised and we will look into how we can better publicise these numbers.

Sir, the Committee on Sporting Singapore (CoSS) was formed some years ago and included three Ministers and a Senior Minister of State. The CoSS made a number of recommendations to create a sporting population. Could the Minister give an update on the number of recommendations that have been implemented and also when will the rest of the recommendations be implemented? In particular, what are we doing with regard to participation rather than excellence in competition alone, as there are many health benefits to those who exercise regularly?

Sir, we recognise that sports excellence is an important means to help our people to bond as a nation. To the credit of the Government we have embarked on various programmes to that end. We have gone some way towards improving some selected sports, including table tennis, bowling and bodybuilding. Yet, despite our efforts, and with imported talents, that first Olympic gold medal still eludes us. We used to think that our ability to excel is constrained by the size of our population. However, that seems like a fallacious argument as there are many other nations that are of the size of Singapore, or even smaller, that have gone on to sporting glory, while all we can claim for our sporting glory is our own Mr Tan Howe Liang. He won our only Olympic medal more than 40 years ago. I would like to ask the Minister for a realistic assessment of our potential to achieve world-class status in selected sports. Are we not hindered in our approach by requiring sporting talents and potentials to be scholars as well? Will the Minister please tell this House what else the Government is planning to do to ensure that our vision of sports excellence will come to pass? Sir, we may take a leaf out of the Australian government's book. In the Australian Sports Commission Strategic Plan 2000-2005, it said that it will continue to improve programmes for elite athletes to ensure Australians remain in the vanguard of international sports. At the same time, it said that it was to develop new sources of income through effective marketing of products and services and an increase in support from the private sector. For the first point, I believe we are already on the right track. The Government has already been working to change the mindsets of Singaporeans that sports can provide an equally good alternative career path. Our insistence on some minimum academic standards, however, as was indicated recently, may count against this. The second point is less well known - that sports needs a large amount of funding. The Government should not be the only one to fund this national effort. We ought to have a commercial strategy to fund already popular sports that have a following in Singapore, and there should be concerted efforts to promote sports as a worthwhile corporate expenditure. Last, we ought to have more role models besides Fandi and perhaps Mr Tan Howe Liang. We need stars to bring attention of our people to sports and this is a quality that we can tap. This will not only serve as a public relations tool but also an easy way to inspire and encourage younger Singaporeans to identify with sports.

Sir, I agree that funding is a very important point. But perhaps a broad base of support for sports from the population is just as important. From the perspective of myself, someone who only started being active in sports in my secondary school years, may I suggest the following, and I must say that this is also based on observations of Australia: Firstly, start them young. Again I make the plea for a broad-based participative approach even at the primary school years, especially since we know that many parents and grandparents have a rather over-protective attitude towards their children, while others may feel that this is a waste of time, which could be better spent on studies and assessment books. Secondly, I would say that we should not forget the parents and the adults because active parents, who are themselves into sports, are more likely to be able to persuade the young children to take up sports. Or, for those who already have sporting talent, to encourage their children and give them the practical support needed for them to develop, such as bringing them to the 5-11 training sessions a week, if we really want to get sporting excellence. Thirdly, I would say, do not forget the young people. We have often lamented the fact that young people tend to be rather inactive once they start their working years. But we must remember that things like extreme sports, golf, triathlon and trail biking and even rock climbing, tend to be taken up by people who are older teenagers or young working adults. Having opportunities for these young people to learn and take part in these sports would also give them an opportunity for interaction and, hopefully, this might lead on to marriage. So you will have a synergy of the various agencies within the MCDS where SDU might actually end up being a synergistic agency for the sporting excellence for Singapore agency.

Sir, when I read about the Government's world-wide advertisement campaign to promote Singapore, I immediately looked up the posters published in some of the British and American media. The campaign profiles seven personalities. It includes jazz singer and actress Jacinta Abisheganaden, fashion designer Andrew Gan, SSO Music Director Liang Shui, and some of the other personalities from the science and technologies field. I looked in vain for a sports figure but there was none. Apparently, we have none to boast about to the world. Sir, we have made some steps towards sports excellence, one which I applaud is the move to set up the first Government Sports School to develop budding talents in the sports arena. But the announcement of the minimum criterion that it needs an academic criterion, which is Express stream as a minimum admission criterion, to me, does not seem to be a step forward. If you use this yardstick, sports talents such as Fandi would not have made it. He was from ITE. Sir, each of us has different gifts and talents. Some who excel in sports may not be good in their studies. Of course, some athletes can excel in both their studies and sports but, more often than not, for most top athletes who are serious about excelling in sports, something has to give. And, if they chose to excel in sports, it often means that what will give are their other aspects of life, including being good in their studies. We must be quite focused about what we hope to achieve in the Sports School. The stated mission of the Singapore Sports School is to develop Singapore's promising sportsmen and sportswomen to their fullest potential. It aims to raise the level of sports excellence achievements in Singapore, and the stated hope is that this will help us to reach the Government's goal of becoming one of the top 10 sporting nations in Asia by 2010. Sir, with this aim in mind, I feel that the Sports School should not be run like an academic institution which puts grades first, where there must be some criteria for academic qualifications. We should allow Technical and Academic stream students who excel in sports equal opportunity to enter the Sports School and to maximise their sporting talents and to contribute to Singapore in this way, not on a case-by-case basis, but as a rule. That said, I think that if we are serious about producing world-class athletes, we should take sports excellence a step further. We should go all the way and set up a sports institute for elite athletes. This will be where all the sporting needs of elite athletes will be taken care of. It is like the Sports School, but for national athletes who are recognised by the relevant national sporting bodies, elite or potential elite. A good model that we should look at is the Australian Institute of Sports (AIS). It leads the development of elite sports and is widely acknowledged in Australia and internationally as the world's best practised model for elite athlete development. It offers scholarships annually to about 700 athletes. The Institute was set up following the disappointing results from the Australian team at the 1976 Montreal Olympics. But since then, since the development of AIS, Australia has made great strides in its sporting talents. Indeed, in the 2000 Sydney Olympics Games, the athletes that came from the Institute contributed to more than half of the medals that were won in the Sydney Olympics. The athletes also get help to make sure that there is life after sports. One of our main concerns is that if we train them in sports, would they have a life after sports, whether they can get jobs? So I am saying that the AIS is not an academic institution but, however, there is help to make sure that they have life after sports, they have to take technical or academic course or find suitable full-time or part-time employment. I would urge the Minister to consider setting up a sports institute to help us make our mark in the world of sports. 1.15 pm

Sir, following the Committee on Sporting Singapore Report, the Government has earmarked $500 million under the Athletes Career and Training scheme to boost sports. I spoke at length on this subject last year, but I also pointed out that since this sum was being spread over three objectives, namely, achieving sports excellence, sports for all and the nurturing of a sports industry, the sum just appeared to be too little. I am one who would, in fact, advocate more money than what we have earmarked annually for sports, so that we can attain our dreams of achieving sports excellence. But I was a bit surprised when I heard the Minister announce a few weeks ago that a $650 million sports complex will be built in Kallang comprising a new stadium, a new indoor stadium as well as offices, shops, restaurants and other recreational facilities. We are told that the two new stadiums can also be used for events such as concerts. And all these are meant to ensure that the new complex will be for multi-use and that the complex will be a lively place the whole year round, and not just when there are sports events. Sir, I feel that this is a case of putting the cart before the horse. We will be spending so much money on hardware that we will not have enough money for the software which, to me, is more important, ie, the nurturing and development of sports talent. Singapore already has 13 stadiums, 12 public sports halls, one indoor stadium. Our present National Stadium, built in 1974, can seat 55,000 persons. In fact, I remember that in one Malaysia Cup match in 1974, we actually squeezed in 70,000 people. The new proposed stadium will seat approximately 50,000 people, about the same number as what the existing one caters for. Sir, a new stadium, I agree, can make use of the latest technology and we can have the latest facilities. One that is often used as an example of the latest is the Sapporo Dome in Japan which was used in the World Cup last year. This one has the latest works - one field inside the stadium, one field outside the stadium, so that during matches, they actually move the outdoor field into the stadium so that players play under the best conditions. But right now, they are wondering how to earn enough to maintain this stadium, just as both Korea and Japan are wondering what they are going to do with all the 20 stadiums they built to host the World Cup, and they spent $131/2 billion on them. The same too for Sydney Homebush Stadium, the home of the 2000 Olympics. Even Malaysia's Bukit Jalil Stadium, built for the Commonwealth Games in 1998, has a problem to cover its operating costs of RM2 million a month. Unless we plan to host the Commonwealth Games or Asian Games, in which case building just one stadium would not be enough, I am not so sure what the new stadium hopes to achieve. Do we really need a complex with more shops, restaurants and more office space to compete with the present glut? We already have eight million square feet of empty office space at the moment. Are there really that many pop concerts that can fill a stadium of such a capacity? Are there not already enough venues in Singapore for such non-sporting activities? Do we really believe that it will be such a vibrant sports hub that families will flock there all the time? I do not think we have the critical mass to keep this going. Most likely, it will turn out to be a ghost town. Sir, there are better ways to spend $650 million in the name of sports. The National Sports Associations have complained that the $500 million in the ACT hardly trickles down to them, and they are the ones who need the money most to nurture sports talent. Why can we not look at providing more facilities for the Sports School, and I will have more to say about this later so that more talent can be nurtured.

Mr Tan, your time is almost up.

I am summing up, Sir. If we have this $650 million to spend, let us spend it more sensibly, so that we can really develop sports talent and produce sports heroes. Otherwise, the rationale given is just wishful thinking, and I think we will probably end up with the eighth wonder of Singapore! Sir, I am all for putting more money for sports excellence but, in this case, I fear that we are putting our wrong foot forward.

Sir, the vision of a sporting Singapore has brought much hope and excitement about the future of sports. I would like to ask the Minister how the additional $500 million in support of sports has been allocated to support the three pillars of a sporting Singapore, which are sports excellence, sports for all and sports industry. And how much of it has been disbursed and are we on target to achieve the objective of the three pillars? The Sports School is a critical component of the strategic plan for Singapore to become the top 10 nations in Asia by 2010. It will nurture our top talents so that they will become champions and, at the same time, offer them an opportunity to excel in life through sports. I hope that the Sports School will also bring about a mindset change and a clear message that we also value sports talents, not just linguistic and logical mathematical intelligence. Therefore, I would suggest that we should avoid admission criteria that put academic results first and sports talent second, to the exclusion of our top talents. There are 165 secondary schools in Singapore that put academic results first, and rightly so. But a sports school is a sports school, and perhaps sports talent should come first. Just imagine a sports school that rejects top talents like Fandi Ahmad and Andrew Fang, but perhaps accept lesser talent like myself who could probably make the Express stream. Sir, I would like to ask about the criteria for sports to be included in the Sports School. For example, how would netball contribute to Singapore becoming the top 10 in Asia when only a handful of Asian countries play netball and is never included in the Asian Games and appeared only once in the SEA Games in Kuala Lumpur in 2001? Sir, I must say that I wholeheartedly support the promotion of netball in Singapore. But the Sports School must not lose its strategic focus and be over stretched in its limited resources. Sir, I hope that when considering sports science and sports medicine support, the Sports School will also synergise with NIE and the Singapore Sports Council, both of which have built considerable expertise in this area, so that there will be no wasteful duplication. Like many Singaporeans, I am overjoyed that a sports hub will be built in Kallang. It will become a thriving centre for our citizens and a hub for our sports industry. It should be a public facility that will cater to the National Day Parade, mega events and future major games. I hope that the public will be invited to give inputs on its development. It should be built with passion and not just numbers. And together with the Esplanade, it could make Singapore the lifestyle centre of Asia, just like Monte Carlo. Sir, I support the Code of Governance for the national sports associations, as it would bring about more professional management and greater accountability for the good of sports promotion. I would like to enquire about the progress of its introduction.

Mr Chandra Mohan, you can take your two cuts together.

Much obliged, Sir. Sports promotion in Singapore is under the charge of the Ministry of Community Development and Sports, especially the Singapore Sports Council and the Ministry of Education's Singapore Schools Sports Council. I am glad, today, we have a Ministry of Sports and there is a Minister who is fairly sports minded and, I am sure, a sporting person. In the old days, I remember the late Mr E W Barker always wanted to be a Minister for Sports, but there was no such Ministry. And I hope with that, the standard of sports should increase in Singapore, not only at the local regional level but also international level. In that connection, has the Singapore Sports Council or the Ministry as a whole done enough to promote sports persons at the national and international levels? What are the incentives and what are the steps taken to remove the disincentives? We had, in the old days, sportsmen and sportswomen in the 50s and 60s in badminton, weightlifting, hockey and athletics. I hope we will bring back the glorious days soon. As has been mentioned, Sir, on the admission criteria for Sports School, I think it is important for us not to be too idealistic in wanting them to be both sports boys and also to be good in studies. I think the main criteria must be sports and, if at all, education can be a criterion but it should not be one of the main criteria, because we must produce sports boys and sports girls, and that must be the priority. The Sports Council has a Code of Governance for national sports associations, popularly known as the 10 commandments. There appears to be a maximum term for NSA officers to serve in the various NSAs. Could I ask also that for the Singapore Sports Council members, whilst they have done well, perhaps there should be a term for them also, so that there is rejuvenation and new persons coming at the helm to be in charge of sports? How about office bearers also in the Singapore National Olympic Council, Singapore Football Association, Singapore Badminton Association? I see a trend towards politicians being more involved in these bodies. I am sure our politicians are very busy, and I think more leeway should be given for the citizenry to participate in leadership roles. Therefore, I would urge the politicians to be perhaps patrons of these associations and not as Chairpersons or Presidents. Give others a chance. Of the approximately $500 million that has been earmarked for sports as a result of the Committee on Sporting Singapore Report, how much has actually gone to the NSAs? Since the announcement of the above grant, what are the specific budgetary plans for the various sports development objectives? What monies have been spent and under what headings? What outcomes, tangible or intangible, have been recorded or accounted for? It is learnt that foreign consultants have been employed to the administration or divisions within the Sports Council. How experienced are they and how effective have they been? What is their experience as compared to local sports administrators who probably can do a job as well? If not, could we send them abroad for training so that they come back with expertise and remain loyal to Singapore? How many talented athletes do we have and are receiving funding and how much in preparation for the 2003 South East Asian Games and beyond? How does the MCDS propose to make sports less defined by race? As we know, sports creates social cohesion. It is one of the best ways for different races to play and grow together as friends, and gel together as Singaporeans. In this connection, I would like to know why, in many of these games like table tennis, basketball, swimming and wu shu, for instance, are played mainly by the Chinese, whilst sepak takraw and even soccer by the Malays; and hockey and cricket by Indians. What can the Ministry do to minimise this problem and get our Singaporeans to gel together?

Sir, the setting up of the Sports School to provide world-class sports training to talented student athletes to help them reach their fullest potential is indeed a good step. I understand the first batch of students will be recruited in January next year. Sir, when a local newspaper reported recently that only Express stream students will be admitted to the school, there was public uproar. Many objected to setting high academic qualification as an entry criterion. It was even reported in the Straits Times on 12th March that based on a survey of some 100 readers of the Straits Times, only three agreed that high academic qualification is needed. Even Khoo Swee Chiow, our well-known Mt. Everest hero, objected to the criterion. In an e-mail to the Straits Times, he wrote: "Our Government wants to stress sports. Yet the Sports School will be compromised by academic achievement and this is a mixed signal. Academic pursuit must be secondary. Michael Jordan only does one thing in life - play basketball. Tiger Woods only does one thing in life - play golf. Ask them how much time they spend in practice, they will probably say, "All my life". Ask Fandi Ahmad, I am sure he has the same answer." 1.30 pm Sir, in the light of this strong objection to setting high academic qualifications as a criterion for admission to these schools, like my earlier colleagues who have spoken on the subject, I would like to ask the Minister to review the entry criteria for admission to the Sports School. Could the Minister also tell us what plans he has to ensure that the Sports School would help fulfil our dream of becoming a sporting nation?

Sir, like my many colleagues, Mr Sin Boon Ann, Ms Irene Ng, and several others who have spoken before me, and many Singaporeans, I am dismayed that only Express stream students can qualify for a place in the Sports School. If the intention was to establish an academic institution, then I do not see the relevance of constituting the Sports School under the purview of the Ministry of Community Development and Sports. In fact, I recently read in the media that 10 schools in the Woodlands area are introducing a sports programme in the schools to nurture sport talents. Other secondary schools and JCs have also signalled the same intention. Do they see an opportunity to outdo the Sports School? I wholeheartedly agree with the Sports School that our sportsmen and women should be educated. We want them to be functional citizens. This means they must be literate, able to read and write. They must reach the basic academic standards, able to live a normal life after their sports days are over, or if they fail to make it in sports. For those able to go further academically, they must have the opportunity to do so in the Sports School. They must have the opportunity to be as best they can be academically while perfecting their sporting talent. But the focus of the Sports School must be on sports. The intention of setting up the Sports School is certainly not to nurture academic excellence that our existing schools are doing very well. In this spirit, I feel that the Sports School should identify those who have the talents to be good in sports, regardless of academic abilities. The School should then work with them to ensure that they achieve the basic academic education to be functional citizens, but nurturing them in their sports talent. By putting the focus or emphasis on the sports, the Sports School would be able to achieve the goals for which it was set up. I hope that the academic emphasis by the Sports School is not a cop-out for fear of not being able to produce the sports talents but making sure that they cannot be accused of destroying the student's life, for the latter has his or her excellent academic qualification.

Dr Maliki is not in. Mr Tan Soo Khoon.

Sir, the question here is whether the criteria for admission into the Sports School are not being set too high. By setting the entry level at the Express stream, the Sports School is actually looking for sportsmen with brains. An official was quoted as saying that this is in order to prepare students who, if they eventually do not make it in sports, can switch to academic pursuit. Sir, such thinking is like admitting defeat even before the School is open. Such a stand actually means that aspiring sportsmen and sportswomen can only pursue their sporting interest if they can excel academically. Sir, in that case, I would just submit that we do not need a Sports School for this. There are already many schools in Singapore doing this for a long time. Schools like RI, ACS and a host of others produce all-round students all the time, students who excel academically as well as in sports. It appears that, by setting such a standard, the School may have missed the objective of why it was set up in the first place and that is to produce sports champions. Not all sports champions excel academically. As has been pointed out by Mr Chew, I do not think someone like Michael Jordan, or for that matter, you can name a lot of other top sportsmen, Ronaldo and the like - I do not think they were that great in their studies. And it is like the same as if you want to have good musicians. If the guy is gifted in musical talent or in singing, you do not say that he needs to be academically qualified before he can pursue such a career. I do not think for that matter the Rolling Stones members were great shakes in their studies when they were young. So, is setting a minimum standard of 200 points in the PSLE result too high and actually depriving us of a larger talent pool? Even in the United States, the sports colleges there require only an entry level of a minimum of 2.0 grade point average - they call it the GPA - on a scale of 4.

0. This grading is what I would term as a fair pass, which is lower than our Express stream qualification and probably 2.0 grade point is closer to our Normal stream standard. Furthermore, their grading takes place at a higher age for everybody, that is, after High School. Whereas in our case, the child is already streamed at a very young age and on the basis of just one single examination, ie, the PSLE. Sir, the Sports School must be seen as another route for those who, though they may have less intellectual capabilities, have other talents which, given the right environment, can be nurtured, exploited to the fullest, and that such people can bring honour to the country.

Sir, the Acting Minister for Community Development and Sports recently launched the Code of Governance for the National Sports Associations (NSAs). This is indeed a good move as it will make the NSAs more effective, more transparent and more accountable to the Government, their various stakeholders and the general public at large as public monies are involved in the running of NSAs. I fully support this move. I would like to ask the Minister how does his Ministry propose to implement the Code of Governance among the NSAs. I understand compliance is compulsory by 31st March next year, and there is not much time. Sir, I raise this because I was involved in the implementation of the code of corporate governance for listed companies in Singapore, in my capacity as Chairman of the Singapore Institute of Directors. I know that the task is not easy, given the initial resistance to change and compliance and having to educate the many people involved in the management of these companies. Numerous seminars and workshop sessions have to be held to explain the code. In the end, we could get companies to comply with the code in spirit and in form, but ensuring that the substance and the commitment are also there is more difficult. It takes time to change mindset. Sir, I raise this concern because I believe that implementing the Code of Governance among NSAs is easier said than done. It requires a lot of effort and planning on the part of everybody. I would therefore like to ask the Minister if he would enlighten the House on the challenges facing his Ministry in the implementation of this code.

Sir, Dr Warren Lee has covered some of the points which I intended to raise. I will be very brief. Sir, the Committee on Sporting Singapore in its Report for Sports for Everyone has suggested a target of getting one out of every two Singaporeans to participate in a sports related activity by 2005. Almost two years have passed since the Committee released its Report in July 2001. There are about two more years remaining before the 2005 deadline. Could the Minister give us an update on the participation rate for Singaporeans in sports and what new initiatives are being taken to increase the participation rate to our target of 50%?

Sir, I would like to urge the Ministry of Education and MCDS to ensure that our children are given maximum opportunities to play sports in school. I just want to quote our Minister for Education and Second Minister for Defence RAdm Teo Chee Hean that ECA in sports should be broad-based with opportunities to specialise. Just as pupils are offered a broad range of subjects in schools, they should also be offered a range of ECA that exposes them to different experiences and encourages the exploration of diverse interests. Presently, schools where these broad-based opportunities should be given are presently left to the individual school's own resources to select and nurture certain sports which they feel they are capable of providing. This negates the aim of a clear broad-based policy to provide ample opportunities for pupils to excel in sports. I would like to give one example. My little girl wanted to play tennis and went for selection, just to play the sport. She was thrown five balls for testing, and she came home telling me that she had managed only to hit one ball. Hence, she was not allowed to play tennis in school. I have no choice but to send her to a private class on Sunday and to pay $50 an hour. I am able to afford it, but how many parents can afford it. I concur with Dr Warren Lee that we must start the young in sports early. It is at this tender age of 7 to 12 that world champions can develop and be nurtured. Talents can be identified through opportunities to participate in a diverse range of sporting activities and outstanding pupils can then be identified to provide the excellence. In our schools, the excellence factor has already come in when you just want to play and have the experiences and, most often, the excuses are always limited facilities and human resources. Presently, the Sports for All goals and programmes are developed by MCDS and the opportunities given to the children are decided by the Ministry of Education. There is obviously a need for total coordination and commitment between the Ministries. I would like to ask for an inter-Ministry committee to be set up to ensure that goals are set and implementation is carried out to ensure that there are physical and human resources for maximum opportunities for the children to participate in schools. Singapore is small, and to build many stadiums and running tracks is impossible. We must build these scarce resources where maximum shared uses are encouraged. They should be built near the schools and conveniences, such as near to MRT and LRT stations, where children and adults can maximise the usage. And what is the planning provision for such stadiums and sports centres? When was the last review done? As for people resources, what is MCDS' plan to increase the number of sports instructors in schools as well as for the public sector, if we want to cultivate a sporting Singapore?

Dr Maliki is not present. Mr Ong Ah Heng.

(In Mandarin): Sir, the Ministry of Community Development and Sports has delegated the task of developing a blueprint for Excellence in Sports in Singapore to the Committee on Sporting Singapore. This has provided a clear direction for the sporting fraternity. But as far as I can see, the allocation of $5 million, stretched over a period of five years, and the blueprint on 'Excellence in Sports' do not reflect the true situation. Neither has the committee made a fair allocation of funds to the sporting fraternity, particularly those sports associations not regarded as having merit status. Sir, before the CoSS took over the centralised management of funds, other sports associations could approach the Singapore Sports Council and the Singapore Pools for funds to finance their sporting activities. Now, with centralised coordination of all funds by the SSC, those National Sports Associations without merit status have no recourse to financial assistance. They are expected to get help from the corporate sector. With the current economic slowdown, some sports associations are no longer able to get help from the private sector and thus are not able to implement their annual plans. I understand that sponsorship for sports should be prioritised but no sport can achieve a level of excellence overnight. Ideally, each sports association should have a home of its own where its national team can train. 1.45 pm In land-scarce Singapore, I understand this constraint, but the Ministry should try to help them on a case-by-case basis. There are sports that can share facilities. There are others which cannot. One example is basketball. Since the Gay World Stadium was demolished in 2001, the national team has no proper training ground where they can train adequately.

Sir, I think quite a lot has been said about sports, sporting nation and sporting people and, therefore, I have nothing more to add.

Sir, many Singaporeans have fully subscribed to the notion of sporting Singapore. Sports, along with the arts, make the continued development of the character of Singapore society. It is no surprise that residents in the Sengkang new estate look forward eagerly to their sports stadium, especially since it features so prominently in their master plan. Additionally, this sports stadium is going to be the first stadium to be co-located with a modern community club. This CC is going to be a key centre for the community in the Anchorvale and Fernvale areas of Sengkang. Co-locating allows maximum utilisation of common areas, such as the carparks, as well as non-duplication of sports amenities. At the same time, both facilities can take full advantage of the Sungei Punggol river frontage. However, the need for the SSC to now fully cover both operating and building development costs has put a year's delay in the plans. Previously, the building development of the sports stadium has been on Government grants. Moreover, the bundling of four sports stadiums together for assessment and approval compounds the magnitude of the problem for the SSC. May I ask the Minister whether he could review the need for the bundling of the four stadiums and allow the Sengkang Sports Stadium to proceed ahead, as the CC's fate is inextricably tied to that of the sports stadium. A review to free up the gridlock would be most appreciated.

Mr Zainudin is not present and Mr Steve Chia is not moving. Prof. Yaacob.

Sir, I would like to thank all Members who have spoken on the subject of sports. I will try to the best of my ability to answer all the queries and, if there are matters left unanswered, we will try and address them after this COS through a written reply. Sir, Dr Warren Lee and Mr Ng Ser Miang have asked for a progress update on the implementation of the Sporting Singapore recommendations. Of the $500 million Sporting Singapore Fund set up in September 2000, we have thus far utilised about $125 million. Out of the 40 recommendations, we have started implementing 36 of them. The remaining four recommendations, which primarily concern the National Sports Associations (NSAs), will be implemented when the NSAs are more ready for them. Sir, allow me now to elaborate on some of the key initiatives in the three pillars of sports excellence, sports for all and sports industry. Along the way, I will address some of the concerns raised by Members. Together, these three pillars form our vision of a sporting nation, where our athletes do us proud in international competitions, our people play sports regularly, and where our sports industry is vibrant with opportunities. In the area of Sports Excellence, our aim is to be one of the top 10 sporting nations in Asia by 2010. 2002 was a watershed year for us. We achieved our best results ever in the Commonwealth Games and the Asian Games. We also had major international achievements by our athletes in major single-sport competitions for badminton, bowling, table tennis and silat. Sir, we agree with Mr Sin Boon Ann that a small population base does not preclude us from producing Olympic or world champions. Although Singapore has yet to produce an Olympic gold medallist, we have athletes who have done well in world or regional competitions. For instance, Jennifer Tan and Jesmine Ho are the current World Bowling Masters champion and runner-up respectively. Remy Ong is ranked as Asia's top amateur bowler, and Ronald Susilo is among the top 20 badminton players in the world today. However, to achieve greater heights in sports excellence, on a more consistent basis, we have to do more. We have already started to do so under the Sporting Singapore blueprint, and our efforts are focused on three broad areas: 1) The development of the NSAs into effective sports bodies; 2) The setting up of a Sports School to develop elite student athletes; and 3) Our support for elite athletes. Sir, the NSAs are an important component of our sports delivery system. They are national bodies representing Singapore, and supported as the sole authorities for their respective sports. Hence, as Mr Chew Heng Ching has pointed out, accountability and performance standards must be closely monitored. Last year, after months of consultation with the sporting fraternity, we launched the Code of Governance for National Sports Associations. Amongst other things, the Code of Governance will address a few key critical areas. First, it will address the issue of leadership renewal and fair representation of stakeholders in the leadership of the NSAs. Second, the Code will address the concern of accountability for public funds. Increased funding support must be accompanied by increased accountability. Third, the Code will put in place a system to ensure that the selection of athletes for major competitions is fair and transparent. Mr Chew Heng Ching has asked about the implementation of the Code, and Mr Ng Ser Miang has enquired about its progress. The NSAs for the Core and Merit sports are expected to comply with the Code by end of FY2003. However, we will consider NSAs' request for exemptions from, or delayed implementation for, selected clauses in the Code on a case-by-case basis. To assist the NSAs as they comply with the Code, the Singapore Sports Council (SSC) has already followed up with some of the NSAs. SSC will provide the necessary assistance, such as support for legal advice, review of organisational structures and systems, as well as training. We will work with each NSA to ensure that the implementation of the Code is reasonable and well-supported. I am glad that several NSAs have already started this review process on their own accord. In addition, the performance expectations of NSAs must be made clear. In 2002, a review of the various categories of NSAs was done and a comprehensive set of criteria was put in place for the classification of NSAs into "core", "merit" and "others" categories. In essence, when SSC assesses the NSAs, it looks at the NSAs' performance in international competitions, its elite athlete management, its promotion of the sport to the public, and its internal administrative systems. For core and merit NSAs, SSC will set annual targets through the Partnership Agreements that it has with the NSAs. Last year, strategic NSA-specific reviews were conducted for some NSAs, so that they know the areas that they have to improve on. Some NSAs involved include those in shooting, netball, sailing, billiards and snookers, swimming, badminton and triathlon. This year, we will share best practices among the NSAs, so that they can learn from one another. The SSC supports the NSAs, mainly through financial grants and the use of its facilities. Last year, the ceilings of the total grants to NSAs were raised to $3 million, $2 million and $0.5 million respectively, for NSAs in the "core", "merit" and "others" categories. The actual grants given out have increased over the last two years, and will increase further in the next few years, if the NSAs have effective programmes. Mr Ong Ah Heng has cited the case of basketball. I am pleased to inform him that the Basketball Association of Singapore, like other NSAs in the "others" category, is also eligible for more funding support, as long as they have effective programmes that are in line with our overall national objectives. Mr Charles Chong raised this in another matter, but I want to address it, and he will be glad to know that we have not left out our elite disabled athletes. For instance, our funding support for the Singapore Sports Council for the Disabled has increased by eight-fold in FY2002. Our approach towards athletes is focused on providing them with assistance and financial support during their training, rather than monetary incentives after they have won medals. This applies to both able-bodied and disabled athletes. There are private sponsors and people-sector organisations, such as the Singapore National Olympic Council, which have monetary awards for medal winners. They have their internal policies and guidelines on how such awards should be given out, and we should leave these to their discretion. Mr Ong Ah Heng also talked about the centralised coordination of funds. We think this is very important. Funds must be allocated to the most appropriate areas and given to the most effective programmes, so that the vision of Sporting Singapore can be realised. Otherwise, we may end up over-spending in one area and under-spending in another. We also help the key NSAs to set up their Centres of Excellence, which typically are used for training of their elite athletes. These are costly projects requiring both funds and land. It is therefore critical that we weigh the costs and benefits carefully, before committing to any new Centre of Excellence. In cases where a Centre of Excellence cannot be built immediately, we will help the NSA to find a place for its training. Sometimes, this will have to be shared with other parties. So, we will continue to work with the Basketball Association of Singapore to find a suitable place for its elite training. I think the hon. Member, Mr Ong, was referring to your goodself, Sir, and not me, when he talked about the Minister watching a basketball game. Sir, the second area is the setting up of the Singapore Sports School, which aims to provide an environment for promising student athletes who want to do well in their respective sports without compromising on their education. The Sports School will begin operations from next year, and we expect to have about 100-150 students in the first year. Most of these will be in Secondary 1 and some will be in Secondary 2. In the steady state, we should have about 600 students. The School will also be open to elite disabled athletes. The Singapore Sports Council for the Disabled is currently helping the School to select suitable candidates. Many Members of this House, ie, Ms Irene Ng, Dr Tan Boon Wan, Mr Ng Ser Miang, Mr Chew Heng Ching, Mr Chandra Mohan and Mr Tan Soo Khoon, and members of the public have spoken about the admission criteria of the School. Let me explain why we set up the Sports School in the first place. Every year, Singapore loses many talented student athletes because of the difficulties they face in trying to balance their studies and sports training. These are students who have the potential to excel in both their studies and sports but, unfortunately, have tremendous difficulties balancing them both today. Something must give in the process and, sadly, it is often the sport. As we already have such a short supply of talented sports people, we must help these young athletes realise their sporting potential whilst at the same time ensure that they meet their academic potential. This is therefore the target group of the Sports School. Members have asked if we would not be losing out on top student athletes who cannot qualify for the School based on their academic results. I want to assure Members that the very talented student athletes will be assessed on a case-by-case basis. Furthermore, the Sports School, as rightly mentioned by several Members, is not the only path for promising young athletes. Other schools, clubs, and NSAs will continue to play an important role in developing elite athletes. Student athletes, who cannot qualify for the Sports School but who have sports potential, will be trained by the NSAs, as they are doing today. The resources that we are pouring in to develop the NSAs will ensure effective programmes for such young athletes. These talents will not be neglected. The Sports School also plans to work with the NSAs to facilitate joint training sessions with the Sports School students, where appropriate. In this way, we will still be able to develop their potential in sports, even if they are not in the Sports School. 2.00 pm There may be a misperception that the admission criteria place more emphasis on academic qualification, rather than on the sports talent. I would like to clarify that the first criterion for admission into the School is that the student must be talented in sport. He will be among the very top of his cohort in that sport. Only after he has crossed this hurdle will we look at his academic results. So, indeed, sport is the primary consideration for admission. Dr Tan Boon Wan noted that some mainstream schools have decided to put more emphasis into sports and wondered if they would outdo the Sports School. I think it is good that mainstream schools are emphasising sports, as this will raise the overall standards of sports among schools in Singapore. Some of these primary schools will feed talented athletes into the Sports School. And some of the Junior Colleges will probably take in graduates from the Sports School. Mr Ng Ser Miang asked about the choice of sports in the School. We will focus on eight sports in the first instance, namely, badminton, table tennis, bowling, track and field, sailing, swimming, football and netball. These are key sports in Singapore. Even if some of the sports may not be included in the major multi-sports Games, such as Asian Games, there are equivalent competitions that are equally important to us. The School will also take in promising student athletes who specialise in sports outside of these eight sports. However, the sports training will have to be taken care by the NSA, unless there is a critical mass. The School will have a modular approach to its education so that the student athlete can better organise his modules around the training and competition schedules. There will be good facilities, training programmes and sports science support to ensure that his sports potential is fully developed. Finally, there will be hostel facilities so that students can stay in the School as effective time management will be key to the students' success in both sports training and academic education. Sir, Mr Ng Ser Miang has suggested that we work together with NIE and the School of Physical Education in the areas of sports medicine and sports science so that we will not duplicate these efforts. I would assure him that both sports medicine and sports science services offered to our students in the Sports School will be offered, in collaboration and consultation with SSC and the School of Physical Education. There will not be any duplication of such services as both the School of Physical Education and SSC are in discussion on how best to work together on this matter. Sir, the Sports School is a pioneer project in our sports development. I thank Members for their interest, concerns and suggestions. I am aware that there are some who support our approach to the Sports School and some who do not. I would urge all to let the Sports School commence operations first. Let us learn from this experience. If there are reasons to review our policy later on, we will certainly do so. The third broad area for sports excellence is to develop a comprehensive support system for our elite athletes. This will include funding support, training advice, overseas scholarships as well as sports science and sports medicine support. For instance, the Athlete Career and Training programme was launched in 2002 to provide customised support to our top elite athletes. Ms Irene Ng has suggested that we consider setting up a Sports Institute for our elite athletes. I would like to thank her for this good idea which we will study further. The setting up of the Sports School is a step towards a similar concept for Singapore. And, again, I suggest that we gather the experience of running the Sports School first before we take this next step. Sir, let me now move on to the second pillar, which is the Sports for All. I agree with Dr Warren Lee that recreational sport for the general public is important. A sporting lifestyle can lead to a healthier body, development of positive attributes among our young and foster closer bonding among our communities. Mr Charles Chong has asked about the progress of the sports participation rate. I am glad to inform him that it has increased from 34% in 1997 to 38% in 2001. Our aim is to increase it to 50% by 2005. I hope all Members of Parliament will support this effort and take up one sport initially. It will not be easy to achieve the 50% rate, but we aim to get as close as possible to our target. First, we need to create and customise sporting opportunities for the different segments of the general public. Second, we need to ensure that the sports facilities are available and well-utilised. SSC has made a fundamental shift in its approach to Sports for All from one of doing it itself to working with various partners. As partners have to be identified, enlisted and equipped with the required capabilities, this change cannot happen overnight, but it has most definitely started. SSC has also re-focused its efforts on youth sports programmes. SSC wants to nurture a lifelong love of sports in our youth for all its broad merits, and not just for healthy lifestyle purposes. This has to be inculcated in our children right from primary school. Yet, another area of opportunity is women sports, which is given special study and being championed by certain NSAs, such as netball. For the students, SSC works with the Ministry of Education, schools and various NSAs. For instance, SSC worked with MOE and the Football Association of Singapore to extend the "C" Division Football tournament played by schools so that the school teams get to play more football matches. SSC also supports new initiatives such as the "Catch Them Young" initiative that many schools have expressed interest in. SSC and NSAs have also organised sports camps, mini-leagues and competitions for children and youth. Our target is not just the school players. We also want to encourage non-school team players to learn and play sports. Hence, SSC has introduced to schools the Sports@Basic programme, which teaches students the basic skills of a sport. Some 50 schools have either participated or expressed interest in participating in the Sports@Basics programme. For the general public, the Sports for Life Centres managed by SSC organise a wide range of sports activities at the community level, such as sports programmes for senior citizens and women. Sir, we agree with Mr Ong Ah Heng that we need to leverage on our partners in sports, if we hope to create more sporting opportunities for Singaporeans. This is one reason why we decided to transfer the Constituency Sports Clubs from the SSC to the People's Association (PA) last year. The SSC also works very closely with the Community Development Councils (CDCs), NSAs, Constituency Sports Clubs and grassroots organisations to organise a wide range of sports activities. Last year, we also launched the Sports Partners Promotion Programme to support our sports partners in the organisation of sports events for the general public. To-date, more than 60 applicants have been supported under the scheme. Assistance provided by SSC ranges from financial support, knowledge transfer and networking. By supporting more sports partners, we hope to play the role of a catalyst and encourage more partners to create sporting opportunities for all Singaporeans. Sir, Mr Ong Ah Heng talked about the role of SSC in organising mass sports events. SSC is already working with various agencies, such as the PA, in the organisation of such events. Nonetheless, this year, we will review how we can make better use of our resources, whether they belong to SSC or our partners, so that we can re-channel resources to the more effective programmes. Sir, let me now turn to the issue of sports facilities. Singapore has a large number of sporting facilities on a per capita basis. SSC manages an array of facilities such as swimming pools, football fields and indoor sports halls. This supplements the facilities in the HDB common areas, eg, basketball courts, CCs, schools, private housing and corporations. In addition, public parks and even Sentosa can also be used for selected sports. SSC is reviewing its masterplan for sports facilities so as to cater to changes in demographic trends, preferences, as well as to achieve better utilisation, accessibility and cost effectiveness. As part of this exercise, SSC will review planning norms, design of facilities and operations of existing facilities. To better utilise these facilities, we are looking into arrangements to share some of these facilities, as Mdm Cynthia Phua has suggested. SSC and the Ministry of Education have started a pilot scheme on Co-sharing of School Fields with the community. Under the pilot scheme, seven school fields will be open for community use outside the school curriculum time. SSC will maintain these fields and manage the usage outside school curriculum time. Two school fields, Serangoon Secondary and Dunearn Secondary, have been upgraded with simple changing rooms for the players. Upgrading work for the remaining five schools is targeted to finish in the second half of 2003. Where appropriate, parks also allow and provide facilities for recreational non-competitive sporting activities. For instance, woodball is played in Sun Plaza Park, mountain biking is done in Tampines Biking Trail and soccer in designated areas in Bishan Park, Pasir Ris Park and East Coast Park. NParks and SSC also collaborated in the recent launch of Keep-Fit-Taiji-in-Parks as yet another means to promote parks for healthy recreational activity. Concurrently, we are also making better use of temporarily vacant state land. SSC has taken possession of two sites in Ubi Avenue 1 and Marina South and built a total of eight football fields on these two sites. They are now very popular among football lovers. We are looking into more of such opportunities. Mr Wee Siew Kim talked about the funding framework for sports facilities. We aim to seek greater efficiency and effectiveness in the use of our capital. However, this will not slow down the building of new sports facilities if the project is justifiable. I assure Mr Wee that we are in discussion with the relevant agencies on the development of several sports complexes, including the one in Sengkang. The fact that we are pursuing these complexes jointly should not affect their implementation. Where necessary, we will proceed on any one of them independently. Sir, let me now turn to the third pillar, which is the sports industry. It is our aim to double the economic contribution of the industry from $680 million in 1998 to $1.4 billion by 2010. The key strategy in developing the sports industry is to create and attract major international sports events to Singapore. In FY 2002, a total of 29 international sports events were supported by SSC through sponsorship and grants. These included the Rugby 7, the Caltex Masters and the Standard Chartered Singapore Marathon. SSC also successfully secured the bid for Singapore to host the IOC Session 2005, thanks to efforts of the previous Chairman, Mr Ng Ser Miang. This is the annual meeting of the most prestigious world body on sports - the International Olympic Committee. More than 120 members of the IOC will meet in Singapore in 2005 to elect the host city of the 2012 Summer Olympic Games. We expect this event to receive a lot of media attention. Sir, a feasibility study on redeveloping the National Stadium into a multi-purpose Sports Hub was completed last year. I would like to thank Mr Tan Soo Khoon for raising this matter. The Government has agreed with its recommendation to build the Sports Hub in Kallang. The exact mix of facilities in the Sports Hub will be decided after a masterplanning of the Kallang area is done. We aim to start construction in 2005 and complete the Sports Hub by 2009. The Sports Hub will be a national landmark, and will not be a ghost town. It will bring Singaporeans together to watch and participate in sports, and at the same time, cater to major local and international sports and entertainment events. It will help foster the sporting culture among Singaporeans and boost the sports industry. At the same time, the construction and operation of the Sports Hub will generate economic spin-offs and help create jobs. Details on the construction of the Sports Hub, including its design, its exact location and its cost estimate, are currently being studied. Sir, Mr Tan has addressed the concern of why is it that we need to build the Sports Hub together with other facilities. The Sports Hub is about a lifestyle that we want to develop in Singapore, which not only focuses on sports, but other related activities. If you look at examples of the various sports stadiums in the world, such as in France and other parts of the world, they have developed their stadiums into more than just a sporting stadium. It has, in fact, generated a lot of interest among its local population. The more recent example is the Stadia De France in Paris which, despite all the initial cost, has been able to turn around and become more profitable. Our initial study shows that the Sports Hub in Kallang can be profitable, not only due to sports events but other events that will generate the human traffic that we desire. 2.15 pm Sir, Mr Chandra Mohan has commented that there are too many politicians involved in national sports associations. Sir, if they are passionate about sports and willing to contribute to sports, then I welcome their involvement. Mr Chandra Mohan felt that we should involve our sports people in these organisations. I agree that former athletes can often provide the athlete's perspective and add value to the organisation. There are many such examples in the various sports associations, such as Mr Desmond Koh, a former Olympian swimmer, sitting on the newly formed Singapore Sports School Board. Ms Grace Young, our former national bowler, is assisting the Bowling Association, and Ms Annabel Pennefather, a former hockey national player, now Vice-President of the Hockey Federation. Even the new SSC Board is headed by a former national swimmer, Mr Alex Chan, and has six other members who are former national athletes. As to the point raised by Mr Chandra Mohan on whether or not we should rejuvenate the SSC, in fact, we have done so. Mr Ng Ser Miang has done a good job. He was at his peak when we decided that we need to also bring in new blood. Mr Ng Ser Miang is now supporting us through his various connections in the sporting fraternity to help us further achieve our goal of being a sporting nation in 2010. Sir, I must emphasise that appointments as Board members or staff should be based on the person's ability to contribute and not simply because he was a sports person. Sir, let me answer briefly some of the other points raised by other Members. I agree with Mr Sin Boon Ann that we need to attract corporate sponsors, and that is the purpose of building up the sports industry. Based on our recent examples, the Rugby 7 and the Caltex Masters, we are able to generate that. So, it is not only Government funding, but also the corporate sponsorships. Sir, Mr Tan raised a very good point regarding the balance between hardware and software, and why we should spend $650 million on hardware. Mr Tan would agree that we need both, hardware and software. He is nodding in agreement and that is good. Not enough? Well, I would agree with him that we can do with a little bit more money, but the $500 million that we have is being spent well on the right areas, to ensure that we can develop not only the athletes but the supporting systems. So we want to strengthen our NSAs, we want to help our athletes and we want to encourage a larger base of people going into sports - the point raised by Dr Warren Lee and other Members of the House - and we need to get enough Singaporeans to want to do sports and play sports. Sir, Mr Chandra Mohan raised the specific point about foreign sports administrators. We hired the most suitable candidate for the job, and this has been the result of Sporting Singapore blueprint because we need people who are capable, who have done the work before in their own country and can share their experiences. It is not that we are selecting foreigners, but we are trying to select the best person. So, in this regard, we have gone beyond Singapore to find people who are capable and, at the same time, we are looking for Singaporeans who are able to help us in this effort. So we will try our very best and, at the same time, we will train our people, through the various programmes that we have under SSC, so that they themselves also can develop the necessary skills. On the issue of racial integration and sports, I agree entirely with him that, at the end of the day, sports should be the basis for us to bring people together. But, I do not think that we can force people to play a sport if they are not comfortable with. You cannot ignore the fact that, for example, silat is part of Malay culture, and predominantly you will see Malays in silat. But it does not mean that people are not integrating. If you go to a community centre on any one night, you will have the silat group at one corner, the wushu at another corner, but they are all under the same roof, interacting, talking, discussing with one another. So I do not think we should fault people for wanting to take up only one particular sport. We should encourage as many people as possible to adopt all sports that they are interested in. Finally, Sir, Dr Warren Lee raised a very good point that SDU could promote sports as part of the social interaction activities. I would be most happy to learn from him what more that we can do because, at the moment, both SDU and SDS have regular followings amongst their SSC members in golf, beach volleyball, badminton, cycling, bowling and yoga. Sir, in conclusion, the last three years have been very exciting for sports in Singapore. I must thank you for your good work, Sir. For the first time in our sporting history, we have a clear blueprint to chart our course towards sporting excellence, promoting sports for all and developing a sports industry. However, Sir, underlying the specific programmes that I have mentioned earlier, is the need for all Singaporeans to support sports. They can do this by encouraging their children to be active in school sports, by attending and supporting local sports events, by participating in sports activities in their communities. All these will underpin the gradual development of a sporting culture. If I might cite my own personal example, Sir. I am a cyclist and I have been able to teach my 7-year-old son to cycle. Every weekend, we cycle together at the East Coast Parkway. As a result of my interest in cycling, I have been able to enthuse another Singaporean to be interested in cycling. But, Sir, the reverse has also happened. My 5-year-old daughter is a very good roller-skater. As a result of her interest, I have begun to take up roller-skating, Sir, with a lot of bruises to show for it. Sir, the emergence of a sporting culture is best exemplified when Ronald Susilo made it to the semi-finals and finals of the 5-day Singapore Badminton Open last year. Some 5,500 supporters came to cheer him on each day. School children of all races and gender cheered him at every smash. Aunties, makciks and pakciks were waving the Singapore flag. The atmosphere was electric, something we have not felt in a long time. People from different races, different ages, and different socio-economic backgrounds, all came together for a common cause - and that was to cheer on our Singapore hero, and that was Team Singapore. Team Singapore, Sir, is about working and playing together, supporting one another for a common cause. Team Singapore is about being proud of Singapore. This concept goes beyond sports. It is equally applicable to many areas where our multi-racial and multi-cultural society works together as one united people. Sir, I look forward to the support of this House as we seek to build Team Singapore.

Point of clarification, Sir. The Minister said that for Sports School, it would look, first at sporting talent and then the academic qualifications. Can I ask the Minister whether it means that if a student has great sporting talent ---

Ms Ng, are you raising a clarification? That is not a clarification.

The clarification is that if the student has great sporting talent but does not meet the minimum qualification, and he is not from the Express stream but from the Normal or Academic stream, can he make it to the Sports School?

Sir, as I mentioned in my reply, we will look at such cases on a case-by-case basis. Ultimately, it is sporting talent that will become the first criterion but, yet, at the same time, the academic standards of the particular child will have to be considered. Because, at the end of the day, we also want the child to be able to study in school, and to balance both sports and studies. So, if there is a child that does not meet the academic criterion, as I said, we will consider it on a case-by-case basis.

Sir, point of clarification. My concern is not that schools should share facilities with the public, but our schools do not have enough facilities and sports personnel to allow our children maximum opportunities to enjoy sports.

Sir, my apologies. Last year, SSC launched a programme, together with the schools, where we gave a small funding to each school for it to hire a coach or someone who is prepared to volunteer to run sporting programmes for the non-athlete students. This is one way in which we can address the lack of manpower within the school system. I cannot recall the exact numbers, but more than 40 schools have joined the scheme, and a good number of students have been involved in games in which they otherwise would not have been involved.

Sir, I do not quite understand the Minister when he said that he is now prepared to lower the admission standards to the Sports School on a case-by-case basis. If he is now prepared to lower it on a case-by-case basis, why stop at that? Why not just allow it for everybody? I recall that one of the reasons stated for not allowing admission for those with just the normal standards was that the school would not have the facility to cater for Express and Normal streams. But, if you are now prepared to allow people in on a case-by-case basis, that means you still have to run courses for those from the Normal Stream. So why do it on a case-by-case basis? Secondly, on the question of the sports city, I think he has missed the point ---

It was not a clarification, Mr Tan. Was the first one a clarification?

Yes, I am clarifying something on ---

No, you were asking a question. It was not a clarification.

Sir, a clarification need not be in the form of a question. But I do not understand him.

You do not understand him?

On the question of the sports city, I find that he misses the point. Do we really need a whole complex with all the extra office space, shops and recreational facilities? Does he really think that people will be flocking there? He has to understand that, in Singapore, if you really want to have people going to your sports stadium, the trick here is to build more stadiums all over the island. I do not think if you build a multi-complex, people are going to flock over to Singapore. That was the same argument we used when we built the National Stadium in 1974. But just see how many people go to the National Stadium every day? After the Malaysia Cup matches were over, you hardly could fill the stadium at all. I must also tell him that the cost of $650 million for the whole complex, probably, is wrong. Because, to build a top-class stadium would already cost you $600 million, at least, and I do not think for that price you could build a whole complex with all the other facilities.

Dr Yaacob, the second one is not a clarification. Just answer the first one.

Sir, on the Sports School, as I clarified earlier, we are prepared to consider on a case-by-case basis. I will leave it to the Sports School to decide what sort of criteria they will use when there is a very, very good athlete, but whose academic qualification may not meet our mark. The reason why we are prepared to do so, and I think Mr Tan will understand this, is that even in schools, for example, there are children who are just slightly one or two points off a certain benchmark. They can be helped to cross over to that particular benchmark. We understand the concerns of Members that we should not miss out on such talent. But I would like to appeal to Members to also allow the Sports School to start the programme and learn from our experience before we undertake a major review in terms of its admission criteria.

On a point of order, Sir. I am interested to know the answer to the question raised by Mr Tan. I would like to know why you are saying that the Minister does not need to answer.

That was not a clarification asked. Pure and simple.

I was the one making the clarification.

Mr Low, that is the answer. He was the one making his clarification.

(In Malay): Sir, the foreword of MUIS' report 2001 states that the community should adopt a new mindset in order to face future challenges. This change should begin with the community. In the same report, MUIS stated its objectives to lead the community in Islam, as well as provide guidance in its efforts to produce a community of excellence that contributes to the prosperity of Muslims and the nation. MUIS accepts its duty in leading the Muslim community in this aspect. My question is: what is the position of MUIS' leadership at the moment? Is it becoming more effective? How could this effectiveness be measured? Recently, there were voices that questioned MUIS' credibility, that is, at the time when the community debated on the tudung, NEWater and JI issues. I have said before in this House that MUIS' credibility should not be questioned. But this does not mean that this would always be guaranteed and should not be a concern. On the other hand, MUIS' credibility and leadership should be nurtured and strengthened all the time. Among the elements which influence MUIS' leadership is its relationship with the community. Is the question of MUIS' credibility that I have mentioned earlier connected to its ties with society? Sir, a large part of MUIS' Executive Council members are made up of those who are nominated by the community organisations. There are also members of the community who are in a few of MUIS' sub-committees. Both these structures have the potential to bring about closer cooperation between MUIS and the community. Can these ties be enhanced? What measures can be taken, in terms of its structure or programmes, in order to strengthen the ties between MUIS and the community? Sir, the MUIS' report for the year 2001 also states that the challenge today is to build on past achievements, without being shackled by old mindsets, yet still firmly upholding true religious teachings. With such challenges, what factors should MUIS give priority to? What is being undertaken by MUIS so as to make the community share the same perspective? 2.30 pm

Sir, I just want to echo what Mr Khalis has said and this is basically on the role of MUIS and its leadership. What I am saying today is very much what I hear on the ground with regard to the perception on the role of MUIS. The role of MUIS has even been more critical over the last year or so, given the fact that the Malay/Muslim community has been put on the forefront quite a bit. And often times, the ground is asking what is the position of MUIS in many aspects that affect the Muslim community. In this regard, I would appreciate it if the Minister could clarify what is the relationship between MUIS and the various Malay/Muslim organisations. Because some of these Malay/Muslim organisations are not religious organisations. I just want to clarify the position of MUIS. With regard to Islamic matters, how does MUIS reflect its leadership roles through the different actions or programmes that it has? In this regard also, some of the members of the community question the directions of MUIS, because I think they see MUIS as doing a lot of things but without a clear focus as to what are the directions. Could the Minister please clarify that? Another perception is that MUIS is spending a lot of money on the media to enhance its image, which was never done before. My questions are: how much is being spent, for what purpose is it necessary, and are the objectives being met?

Sir, I am speaking on MUIS and Muslim affairs, forging a better unity. Sir, at the last North East District meeting, one participant asked for the doing away with the position of Minister-in-charge of Muslim Affairs. The resident, interestingly a Malay, sees it as an anomaly in the context of a secular Singapore and also in our efforts at pursuing a Singaporean Singapore society. Sir, I believe Singapore still needs a position of the Minister-in-charge of Muslim Affairs. It is important to see the role in its correct perspective, especially in the context of multi-racial and multi-religious harmony and integration. May I ask the Minister to share with us how he sees that role and what are some of its challenges? Similarly, MUIS' position is also unique. Its credibility must be preserved and indeed enhanced, not by the nature of its statutory position, but by the rapport building and respect from the people. What has the Minister's and MUIS' experience been over the last year, particularly following the September 11 and the Bali bombing, in forging better understanding of the issues at hand and in achieving better bonding? Sir, MUIS' credibility is also as important in the eyes of the non-Muslims, being the only statutory board with a religious role in secular Singapore. MUIS needs to play its part in bringing about better understanding and rapport with non-Muslim organisations and the community at large. MUIS could initiate an annual inter-religious gathering to foster better understanding. After all, the Inter-Religious Organisation (IRO) was initiated by the famous Muslim scholar, Maulana Abdul Aleem Siddique. Would the Minister share with us what has MUIS done in promoting better racial and religious harmony in the schools and on the national front?

Order. I propose to take the break now. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Order. I suspend the Sitting and will take the Chair again at 3.00 pm. Sitting accordingly suspended at 2.34 pm until 3.00 pm. Sitting resumed at 3.00 pm

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

Head I (cont.) -

Sir, I would like to focus on Islamic education, following up on several discussions that have gone on in this House after the two JI arrests. Last year, the Minister announced the setting up of a list of religious teachers by MUIS. It is a kind of an opt-in scheme where religious teachers can have their names registered with MUIS so that the public can check as and when they need to. I would like to ask the Minister about the status of the list. Has the list been helpful to the members of the Malay/Muslim community? Sir, this issue of Islamic education was at the core of the JI incident and debate when Islam was used as the reason for the terroristic mindsets. The community started introspectively looking at the form and system of Islamic education we have here. I would like to ask the Minister to share the current system of Islamic education that we have in Singapore, as we understand today, there are part-time and full-time classes run by various organisations. My question is: what is the role of MUIS in supervising and monitoring the system? Is there an accreditation mechanism for organisations providing formal Islamic education? If there is, who does it? Are licences issued for such institutions to run such classes? Who issues these licences? Sir, not too long ago, I also understand that MUIS embarked on a thorough review of the Islamic education system, including its curriculum, structures, etc. Can I ask the Minister for an update of that review?

Sir, about three years ago, the Government decided to enforce compulsory education (CE). Madrasah students are exempted but not totally spared. They are required to achieve a certain standard in English, Mathematics and Science at PSLE. This standard is pegged to the average score in those subjects of six lowest scoring national schools. The first batch of madrasah students who are so affected will sit for their PSLE in 2008. They are now in Primary One. This CE requirement means that madrasahs have to revamp their curriculum. This, in turn, calls for new textbooks, new materials, even changes in teachers, teacher training and teaching methods. MUIS has embarked on a curriculum development programme in this regard. Could the Minister give an update on this effort? What has been achieved thus far and what more can we expect? Sir, the PSTE, which is the Malay acronym for Secondary Four Certificate Examination, in the madrasahs conducted by MUIS a few years ago had introduced a degree of standardisation among our full-time madrasahs, at least for the religious knowledge component. The CE requirement infuses further standardisation, this time in relation to English, Mathematics and Science. Does this not bring greater coordination and cohesion among the madrasahs now that they have to meet more common standards? Sir, we are seeing advancements made in the realm of knowledge at a rate unimagined before. It is imperative that MUIS resources be allocated to enhance the relevance and quality of madrasah education in Singapore. At the same time, all the madrasahs, MUIS and the community need to work more closely together to meet these challenges. The global landscape is undergoing changes in the wake of the Sudanese side events. We saw 9/11 and the threat of trans-national terrorism. Ethnic conflicts and tensions occurred and are still brewing in several parts of the world and, even as we speak, there is now a war in Iraq. Many people are beginning to wonder whether the theory of the crash of civilisations is more valid than was originally thought. Do our madrasahs and MUIS take this into account - the scenario which I have just painted - when formulating or reviewing the curriculum? I believe they should, Sir, if the madrasah is to play its role effectively in contributing towards the progress of the community and the well-being of the nation.

Sir, like other communities, the Muslim community in Singapore must also do its part to strengthen our multi-racial and multi-religious social fabric. Mr Zainul Abidin Rasheed, Mr Ahmad Khalis and Dr Maliki have spoken about the important role of MUIS in guiding the religious development of the Muslim community and the need to forge greater partnership with the community. I fully agree with the concerns raised by the three Members. Since September 11, MUIS has made even greater efforts to galvanise the Muslim community towards national unity. And I agree with Mr Ahmad Khalis that the members of the MUIS Council, as part of the leadership of MUIS, have a special responsibility to bring MUIS and the community together in fruitful partnership. MUIS also works closely with its networks of mosque committees, religious and community leaders and other key Muslim organisations to ensure that the public has access to sound religious teaching. MUIS makes use of platforms, such as the Mosque Council, Asatizah Network, Muzakarah Mosque or mosque leaders' platform for coordination, sharing and networking. Such networks also strengthen MUIS' ability to reach out, build a common vision and implement its programmes more effectively. MUIS also seeks to develop a corps of progressive and credible local religious leaders. It is revamping the religious studies curriculum of the madrasahs. MUIS also runs a scholarship programme to ensure the future supply of well-qualified teachers and officials. Sir, I will touch on the aspects of religious education in greater detail in response to Dr Mohamad Maliki's question. Sir, while MUIS is the key authority on Islamic issues, it carries out its work with the support of the Muslim community. For example, MUIS and Pergas have a joint committee on asatizah development. MUIS also works with Mendaki and AMP to bring in speakers who can add to the discourse on Islam and with Perdaus on publications to guide the public on religious issues. MUIS would not have been able to do its work without the support of the wider community. Since 1975, 19 new mosques have been built with the contributions of 130,000 Muslims from all walks of life. Every year, some 3,500 haj pilgrims undertake the pilgrimage to Mecca. Besides MUIS officials, we are also accompanied by volunteers, such as doctors and nurses. Their tireless contribution had won praise from the pilgrims and the Saudi government had expressed appreciation for the well-organised Singapore contingent. Sir, I am also encouraged by the number of volunteers wo have come forward to serve on the various MUIS committees. For example, there are 870 volunteers in the Mosque Management Boards and other MUIS committees. The MUIS Council and Fatwa Committee members are also volunteers. Volunteers also serve in the Young Muslim Secretariat and as teachers for religious programmes in the prisons and drug rehabilitation centres. Sir, I assure Mr Zainul Abidin Rasheed that MUIS will continue its outreach to strengthen racial and religious harmony and to correct the misconceptions about Islam and the Muslim community following the events of September 11. MUIS has indeed stepped up public education efforts, including goodwill visits, talks and dialogues and mosque open houses. Sir, last year, more than 12,000 people attended MUIS' talks on "Understanding Islam and the Malay/Muslim Community" both in English and in Mandarin. The programmes have received good feedback. MUIS also hosted students for Learning Journeys and will extend these to civil servants this year. As for inter-religious dialogue, MUIS actively participates in activities of the inter-religious organisation. The media in all languages have been helpful and important to MUIS. The Chinese media has been very forthcoming in helping MUIS to reach out to the Chinese community here in Singapore. Sir, Dr Maliki raised the concern whether MUIS is spending too much money on publicity. MUIS' Public Affairs and Public Education Department is a small outfit of four officers and its public education budget in 2002 was $800,000. To MUIS' credit, it has done a lot with these resources. It has not spent the money on publicity as much as on delivering public education programmes to Muslims and non-Muslims and responding to the challenges in September 11. Through these efforts, the Muslim community will be in a better position to weather the impact of the external developments, such as the US war on Iraq, as well as maintain mutual understanding and trust with other communities. With the support of the community, MUIS will continue to guide the community in becoming a model Muslim community in our plural society. Mr Zainul Abidin Rasheed has also touched on the role of the Minister-in-charge of Muslim Affairs. I see my role as galvanising the Muslims to take their place proudly in the Singapore society, progressing alongside others and contributing to Singapore's peace, prosperity and progress. Many I have spoken to share in this wish. Over the last year, I have met with the leaders of over 30 mosques, sometimes joined by my Malay MP colleagues. We also held seven dialogues with the Malay/Muslim community and religious leaders over issues affecting the community. The Malay MPs have also visited non-Muslim organisations, especially Chinese employers, to enhance mutual understanding. Sir, let me now address the question raised by Dr Maliki concerning religious education and the religious teachers' director. MUIS has formed a Religious Education and Advisory Panel to advise it on improvements to religious education for the Muslim public, including target groups, such as children and adults. The review covers areas, such as the curriculum, training for the asatizah, or religious teachers, as well as how various institutions, such as our mosques and private providers, can help enhance the quality of religious education. The advisory panel is also actively gathering feedback from various stakeholders. Mosque leaders have also actively contributed their support and ideas to improve religious education through the Muzakarah Masjid, a regular platform which MUIS initiated in 1997 for sharing and networking among mosque leaders. I will touch now on some of the areas that MUIS and its key partners are reviewing. First, the religious education curriculum. MUIS has already developed a religious education curriculum to teach school-going children basic Islamic knowledge. This material is used in classes run by our mosques. And adults attend talks and forums conducted by various teachers at the mosques. Next, religious teachers. For classes held at mosques, the mosque management boards ensure that the speakers and teachers are qualified. Last year, MUIS provided training for some 450 religious teachers to upgrade their religious knowledge as well as expose them to issues in the economic and social spheres. This would put them in a better position to help their students apply Islamic principles to life. Complementing the efforts of mosques, there are also other providers, as alluded to by Dr Maliki, including the Islamic Missionary Committee, Muslim organisations and private education centres. Whilst there is no formal accreditation or licensing of these private centres, MUIS keeps regular contact with them to share and update on the developments. These providers use the curriculum offered by MUIS and actively keep MUIS informed about their classes. The mosques, together with these providers, cater to some 32,000 school-going children. Full-time religious education is carried out by the six madrasahs, with an annual intake of 400 pupils. MUIS administers the madrasahs and assists them with resources for teacher training, student development and curriculum development. Dr Maliki has asked about the religious teachers' directory launched in July last year. The directory now lists 317 teachers. Members of the public have been using the directory as a means to verify whether an individual is registered with MUIS. If an individual is not listed, the public can still check with MUIS. 3.15 pm Some Muslims engage religious teachers for home-based teaching. Most home-based teachers teach recitation of the Qur'an, and do not teach religious classes. Increasingly, more people are approaching MUIS and the mosques to ask about the credentials of the religious teachers or to recommend suitable religious teachers. At the same time, various study groups and teachers have also approached the mosques to let them know about their classes, so that the mosque is kept informed of the developments. These are good developments taking place in the Muslim community. Sir, before I answer Mr Ahmad Khalis' question on madrasah education, let me just clarify that the benchmark to be achieved by the madrasah students for PSLE is pegged at the average PSLE aggregate score of EM1 and EM2 Malay pupils in the six lowest-performing national schools, ranked according to the performance of their EM1 and EM2 Malay pupils in the PSLE of that year. So, we take the six lowest-performing schools, take the Malay students, and take that as the benchmark. It is not pegged to the average score in those subjects of the six lowest scoring national schools, as the Member has suggested. Sir, the madrasahs, with the support of MUIS, have strengthened the delivery of English, Mathematics and Science to meet the requirements of compulsory education. MUIS will ensure that madrasah students are given all the necessary help to be ready for the PSLE in 2008. All the madrasahs have significantly increased the contact time for English, Mathematics and Science to match the same exposure time that the national schools devote to these subjects. The madrasahs have hired 14 more teachers with the relevant qualifications and teacher training. The madrasah teachers also attend in-service training conducted to enhance their teaching skills and their proficiency in English. NIE has agreed to MUIS' proposal to accept madrasah teachers who meet the entry requirement of the Diploma of Education Programme from this July. MUIS is seeking nominations from the six madrasahs. The Curriculum Development Project (CDP), which takes place over six years, will revamp the curriculum for Islamic studies and Arabic language programme from Primary One to Pre-U 2. The materials for Primary One have been completed, and teachers have been trained to use them from this year. The next phase will focus on the Primary Two and Secondary One levels. Some madrasahs prefer to deliver the new curriculum in Arabic and Malay, rather than in Arabic and English. MUIS will work closely with the madrasahs to facilitate this. Sir, MUIS and the madrasahs fully share Mr Ahmad Khalis' views that madrasah education must be relevant to our knowledge-based economy and plural society. The madrasahs will work together, in partnership with MUIS, to achieve these goals. As I understand it, in the curriculum being rolled out by the CDP, they have taken into account some of the social contexts which are relevant to our Muslim students here in Singapore. Sir, to sum up on the issues raised on MUIS, let me assure Members that MUIS will spare no effort in helping the Muslim community move forward as a community of excellence. MUIS will continue to work in partnership with Muslim or Malay organisations which share its vision. I thank all those who have given their strong support, and urge every member of the community to rally together with MUIS. MUIS is our institution, and it is our collective responsibility to work together to strengthen MUIS.

Yes, Dr Tan.

Yes, Sir, I would like to seek two clarifications from the Minister. He mentioned that MUIS has allocated $800,000 for public education. I think that is quite a good sum. I am sure many of us on the ground always have this feeling that we are not so sure as to how ---

Dr Tan, what is your point of clarification?

Sir, I am coming to it.

Please make it quick.

Yes, I think there is a lot of time. Very briefly, there are so many practices and social behaviours that non-Muslims are actually not very sure about, and I was wondering whether the Minister could ask MUIS to give those on the ground clear directives as to what is correct behaviour and what is not. Because, sometimes, we do not know whether or not to shake hands with a person, and why at a function all the food must be halal. We want to get some clear directive as to what is correct and what is wrong. That is one. The other point I want to seek clarification on is with regard to the matter on religious teachers which I brought up previously, because I want to make sure that politics and religion are not mixed at the mosque. Can I ask the Minister whether there are any more PAS members teaching at our mosques?

If I may clarify, actually both your questions are not clarifications. I think there is some confusion as to what is a clarification and what is not. A clarification is not for Members to ask another question, but to clarify if Members do not understand or the answer is not clear or, like you said, was misunderstood. Nevertheless, I will let that one go! You can answer Dr Tan's questions, Dr Yaacob.

Sir, on the second point, I think Dr Tan has made a mistake there. No PAS teachers are teaching in our mosques. What happened in the past was that we had invited speakers from Malaysia who, when we started inviting them, were not members of any political party, but who have since then joined one. But, as I have told the House, we will continue to monitor the situation to make sure that whatever they do in the mosques, they do it properly and meet the objectives that we want to meet. This is being monitored by MUIS. We work together with the mosque officials to encourage them to first get local speakers, if possible. If they really cannot and want to get foreign speakers, they should be more selective. So, I would like to assure Dr Tan that the system is in place. On the point about practices on the ground, I would be most happy to ask MUIS officials to speak to Dr Tan to clarify on some of the matters. If Members need some clarification, I think MUIS would be most happy to discuss with them.

Sir, the annual report of the People's Association (PA) provides in its vision to be the leading organisation in building an active community where all contribute readily to the nation. The mission provides: to promote active citizenship and multi-racial harmony, to connect the citizens for community bonding and volunteer work, to provide affordable access to life-skill and lifestyle activities, and to bring the people closer to one another and the Government. The PA has done well over the years. It has historically grown with the progress of Singapore from the 1960s till now. It was the brainchild of the PAP leadership. It was a machinery to get the pulse and feel of the citizenry. Today, PA has bloomed on its own through the management and administrators, organising a wide range of activities for our people. PA's board of management comprises 15 members, two-thirds of whom are PAP members, and include the Prime Minister and three Ministers. Could I ask the Minister why the need for this? The Ministers are busy people, and they should be released from such responsibilities, unless, of course, they do not want to for political reasons. Should PA not be governed by the people of Singapore and not political leaders? Politicians should learn to govern the country and leave the governing of PA and other associations to the citizenry. Would the Minister not agree that it would be preferable if power and responsibility with regard to associations registered under the Societies Act - and I believe PA is one - are spread to citizens, and the political leaders should be more sporting and must learn to be confident of their own citizens? Our citizens should be allowed to bloom and they should be given the chance to hold senior positions. Politicians, especially Cabinet Ministers, can always be patrons or advisers of PA. PA is an association of the people. It should not be labelled as a PAP organ anymore. It must be an institution for the people and the people's activities, and it must be depoliticised. I would therefore urge the Minister to relook at this organisation and make it a people's association without too much connection with the PAP leadership in its board of management. It has been commented, Sir - and PA recognises this - that activities organised by PA are being supported mainly by a particular race. I am sure PA is trying its level best to ensure that this problem is minimised. Would the Minister consider having, perhaps, in the office-bearers of PA top management, more Malays, Eurasians and Indians, and have this advertised, so that all races would feel they are made welcome in PA? It is also important and crucial that all races treat it as their national duty to participate in PA-sponsored activities. Race-related organisations must also help the PA.

Mdm Ho Geok Choo, you can take your two cuts together, please.

Sir, I would like to raise three issues with regard to the role and performance of the CDCs to-date. The CDCs, together with the grassroots organisations, have done a great job in fostering bonding among residents. In the last two years, CDCs have enlarged their scope to embrace programmes initiated by other Ministries to help the citizens, eg, job fairs, job placements, and dispensing financial and welfare assistance to the community. This administrative task can be very labour intensive. My question is: is the current manning strength at the CDCs adequate for the service providers to do an expeditious job? Sir, on the second issue, recently the newspapers carried some write-up on the CDCs, and the role of the Mayors was also questioned. In order to keep the public more informed of the work of the CDCs and the Mayors, perhaps it is timely to produce an annual report to highlight their milestones. Many of our CDCs have been rehoused with better facilities and amenities to serve the community. Such projects do incur expenses, and I understand that they can be quite substantial, even though they may be for a good cause. But the public may not see it in the same light. As such, it is important to showcase the CDCs' performance in an annual report. Would the Minister consider such a suggestion? Indeed, the CDCs can also establish their key performance indicators as benchmark targets, so that no one can allude to the Mayors of the CDCs for playing a lesser role, as we have read recently in the newspapers. Sir, five CDCs had accumulated massive surpluses last year, some as high as $20 million. At a time when the people need help, more financial assistance should be extended to help the needy. There should be less emphasis on accumulation of surpluses. Could the Minister provide a breakdown on the amount spent by CDCs on projects to help the needy? Also, what is the amount spent on job assistance, compared to the total expenditure of the CDCs? On my second cut, Sir, having been involved in chairing feedback sessions, I would like to submit some suggestions that I have gotten from the feedback sessions. First is the issue of closing the loop in our feedback process. That was talked about before, but I would still like to raise it again. A good communication process inevitably involves an exchange between two parties. Simply put, in a lively and dynamic process, an action should elicit a reaction. That being so, a feedback from one party must also result in a feedback from another party. Sir, there is seemingly a 2-way process during a feedback session, where participants will share, and panel members will facilitate by verifying and clarifying. Is this good enough? Here, I would like to share typical dialogue and seminar settings at the workplace. Typically, after such a session, we do not have to search too far to hear groups of employees gathered together, making such comments as: "As usual, someone else would make the decisions that we would have to work and live with", or "Those who make the decisions rarely, if ever, ask us what we should do." Finally, these same people vent their frustrations in personally unique ways, bad-mouth their employers or clam up. Consider the dollars spent in these dialogues and seminars, and ask ourselves what is really accomplished. Sir, in an enterprise, the single most untapped resource is the wisdom of the people who work there. Knowledge and expertise are the raw materials; wisdom is the finished product. When companies just focus on raw materials and overlook wisdom, they are wasting one of their greatest assets. Similarly, in our feedback sessions, we are just focused on netting the raw materials which flow one way from the audience to the podium, in the belief that they will add value to the feedback databank. Undeniably, such meetings do add value. However, they also squander a perfect opportunity to reverse the flow and further tap into a resource that will yield even richer returns, ie, the support network for implementation of policies. Many have often asked what has happened to their feedback. Why is there no feedback to their feedback? The process of feedback must translate into an engagement of participants. Participants feel engaged when they see what they say matter. Feedback News, a quarterly newsletter of the Feedback Unit, can be a good feedback tool on the feedback we have received. I would like to ask the Minister whether Feedback News is distributed to every participant invited to attend the feedback sessions. At the same time, can we create a column in Feedback News that would highlight the bites of participants attending the various feedback sessions and have specific commentaries or response from the secretariat as to the follow-up action and final outcomes for each of the bites from the participants? Through Feedback News, we can begin to demonstrate that a feedback mechanism to the feedback sessions is indeed in place. Finally, are there any other ways that the Ministry is looking into to ensure an engaged process?

Mr Chandra Mohan, you have two cuts. Take them together, please.

Sir, the Feedback Unit is a useful tool for our people to give their views on current issues, be it politics, economics or social matters, and the feedback being relayed to the Government is useful to the Government for policy making. However, the perception must be right. Whilst the senior officials have done a good job, including the chairpersons, the view may be that the chairperson, being a PAP member, may not be the ideal situation, because this is a feedback session from the people. It may be timely to consider whether we should have an independent, non-partisan person of repute to be the overall chairperson. This might create greater participation amongst thinking citizens and people with differing views and even the cynics, because the feedback coming from them will be very useful to our Government. 3.30 pm What is the chain of commands and what happens once feedback is given to the Feedback Unit? What is the follow-up action from the Feedback Unit to the Government authorities? How many views given by citizens have been adopted by the Government in one way or other? What is the means of reporting back by the Government to the Feedback Unit and, thereafter, to the participants who participated in these feedback sessions? Over the years, the Feedback Unit has had several chairpersons. Do we have a basis for assessing the success of the Feedback Unit as a whole, and is it still considered a viable organisation worth keeping? Sir, I will just quickly go on to my next cut. Our citizens are given a great deal of opportunities to participate in Singapore life through various organisations, including Government committees, PAP committees, RCs and other organisations and also associations formed under the Societies Act, through the various 6,000-over associations. However, would the Minister look at the promotion of citizenry participation on a higher level, in political discussions through NGOs, and not restrict it to just political associations? Politics belongs to the people. We must encourage them so that they will show concern about political life in Singapore and more would participate in political activities and, hopefully, in politics and to run for general elections in the years to come. There is this constant complaint that even the PAP may not be able to find enough candidates of the right number, and that could probably apply even more so to the Opposition parties. So, by us encouraging promotion of citizenry participation in Singapore life, including politics, perhaps we could have a better feel of politics amongst our citizens and, therefore, they will participate more in political life in Singapore.

Mdm Halimah is not present. Dr Yaacob.

Sir, let me address the issues on the Feedback Unit and active citizens, and the other points will be taken up by MOS Chan Soo Sen. Sir, the Feedback Unit solicits feedback from the people through various channels. It recognises the need to close the feedback loop with its feedback contributors. It routes the feedback it receives daily to the Ministries, which then reply directly to the contributors. So those who provide the feedback are kept in the loop. The Unit also publishes the Ministries' replies on its website and in its newsletter so that others with similar concerns can benefit from the sharing of such information. All feedback received is collated and compiled into a monthly report which is sent to the Permanent Secretaries of all the Ministries. To close the loop with the Feedback Groups, the Unit arranges for the groups to meet with Ministry officials to discuss their papers and recommendations. Papers presented by the Feedback Groups at the Annual Conference of Feedback Groups are also routed to the relevant Ministries for their responses, which are then communicated to the groups. The Feedback Unit has introduced many new initiatives over the years to encourage Singaporeans to participate actively in shaping the future of Singapore. Some recent new initiatives include the People's Forum, tea sessions, web chats, regular straw polls and the production of a vernacular language newsletter. Significantly, Sir, there has been more pre-policy consultation. To address Mr Chandra Mohan's point, despite having chairpersons who may be affiliated to political parties, this has not prevented people from coming forward in joining some of the sessions that the Feedback Unit has started. Next month, the Unit will launch a one-stop consultation portal that offers yet another platform for Singaporeans to contribute their views and ideas on national policies and issues online. It will post on its website, consultation papers from Ministries and Government agencies for public comments. Significantly, the portal will also provide information to the public what to expect from the consultation process, what consultation is, what it involves and how one could contribute effectively to the process. All these initiatives by the Feedback Unit are aimed at giving Singaporeans, whether individuals, people sector or private sector organisations, a multitude of channels to participate in national life and contribute in shaping Singapore's future. So there is no need for us to encourage NGOs to participate in political discussions. We are more than happy to accept their feedback through the various channels that we have set up under the Feedback Unit. Encouraging citizens to contribute their views and ideas on national policies and issues is one way of fostering active citizenry for the betterment of Singapore. MCDS also promotes active citizenry by supporting and tapping the passion and energies of Singaporeans who want to make a difference to the community. The National Volunteer Centre, for example, encourages people from all walks of life to apply their skills and interest in volunteering. It matches interested individuals and groups to volunteer opportunities. The Centre also gives a grant to help start up new and creative volunteer initiatives. The National Volunteerism Awards recognise outstanding voluntary efforts every year. Sir, if I could address some of the concerns raised by Mr Chandra Mohan. I have mentioned earlier that there is no reason why even myself, when I was a chairperson in one of the Feedback Unit discussion groups, should prevent ordinary Singaporeans from coming forward. In fact, I would like to place on record that when I was there, chairing the sessions, most of our sessions were actively attended by Singaporeans from all walks of life. I do not think the political affiliation of the person is necessarily an impeding factor. Secondly, on the basis for its success and whether it is still viable - we are able to attract a lot more feedback, and the People's Forum, for example, attracted 5,000 Singaporeans to come forward and participate in our process. Finally, Sir, I do not think we need to encourage NGOs to engage in political discussions because they do not need any encouragement. I think they know what their interests are, and where are the channels which are available, be it through the letters to the Forum page or through public discussions that they have held in their own premises to discuss some of these issues. I do not think this is one particular factor that will hinder people from entering politics. People enter politics for the reason that they want to serve the nation and it has nothing to do with the fact that previously, they were engaged in any political discussion, whatsoever. I will now ask MOS Chan Soo Sen to reply to the other questions.

I call Mr Wong first.

Sir, I have not intended to answer this question by Mr Chandra Mohan. But he seemed to have a consistent theme in several amendments he filed on the various Ministries' Heads, for example, getting the people to join this organisation, getting the people to run that organisation, getting people to take charge of this organisation, and even getting the Prime Minister to be rotated among the Cabinet. I thought that since I answered some of these in the PMO's Head, I should deal with this question concerning the PA. I am also the Deputy Chairman of PA. I manage this on behalf of the Prime Minister. That is why I feel it is my responsibility to answer this rather than just leaving it to MOS Chan. Sir, the PA was set up in 1960 under an Act of Parliament. It is an Act of Parliament and not a society registered under the Societies Act. So it stands by itself with statutory authority. And, in a provision in the Act, it provides that the Prime Minister be the Chairman of the People's Association. Why is the Prime Minister the Chairman of the People's Association? Because the PA is an institution for promoting racial harmony, social cohesion and national unity. The PA's original charter was to set up community centres all over Singapore so that residents of all races can intermingle together and build understanding and bonds among themselves. Over the years, since 1993, when I became Deputy Chairman of the PA, I also brought into PA the various grassroots organisations which, at one time, used to be under the Prime Minister's Office - the Citizens' Consultative Committee, the Residents' Committee and in the last few years, the Civil Defence Committee, the Boys' Club, formerly run by the Police, and the latest one is the Constituency Sports Committee. All these have been put together under the PA's guidance because we feel that the people serving in these various committees are volunteers, and they are the people who spend their time organising activities and events and in bringing the people together so that they can have a better understanding of one another and to build a social bond, as provided for in the original PA's charter. That is why the Prime Minister is in charge. That is why a Minister, appointed by the Prime Minister, is the Deputy Chairman. Because it is a community organisation, it does not necessarily mean that it must be run by the people in the way Mr Mohan wants. It means that they are run by the people who represent the people. And, as Members of Parliament are elected by the voters to represent the people, just as Mr Low Thia Khiang and Mr Chiam are the people's representatives in Hougang and in Potong Pasir, so we represent the people. We do not flinch from it. Yes, we are busy, our MPs are busy, but we will make time for what is necessary to be of service to the people. The PA is not an organisation made up of only Government officers. The PA has about 100 corporate members, ranging from social, sports, cultural, educational clubs, cadet groups, and so on. Four members from among them are elected onto the PA Board on a regular basis and, therefore, they are represented. The PA management is like any Government department. They are made up of people who are appointed on their own merit. We do not have specific quotas set aside for people of particular races. To do so is totally against meritocracy, the principle which we practise in Government. But at various levels of PA, we have staff who are of different ethnic groups, as you can see in our community centres and various other secretariats in the constituencies. Let me make this point very clear to Mr Chandra Mohan. His idea seems refreshing, but I do not think that, at the end of it, anybody has any idea who will make the organisation work. So let us be practical, be realistic, and do what is necessary to make the institution work for the benefit of Singaporeans. I will leave the rest of the answers to Mr Chan Soo Sen.

Sir, I will address Mr Chandra Mohan's point about multi-racial participation in the People's Association's activities. In fact, that is what PA is all about. Among PA's objectives are racial harmony, social cohesion and, of course, the link between Government and the people. And, therefore, promoting multi-racial activities has been a very key priority of the People's Association. Over the years, the People's Association has introduced many initiatives to draw more people from all ethnic groups to join the activities, as well as to serve as grassroots leaders. There are far too many of such examples. I do not think I want to waste the time of the House by elaborating them. I will probably send Mr Chandra Mohan a copy of the PA's Annual Report and, if he needs to, I can go through some of these activities with him. 3.45 pm But I want to highlight just a few. Firstly, the Inter-Racial Confidence Circles (IRCCs). After the IRCCs have been set up, it has so far organised 200 activities to promote inter-racial understanding. There is also a programme called Ethnic Bonding Homestay Programme. It was introduced in school by North East CDC to celebrate Racial Harmony Day 2001. Under this programme, families adopt a child of a different race for a weekend, and we have a plan to expand this programme. There are also the Malay Activities Executive Committee and Indian Activities Executive Committee in our grassroots organisations. They promote the various ethnic activities so as to promote better understanding between these groups as well as other ethnic groups. In fact, as an added incentive to encourage greater minority participation, PA gives bonus points to community clubs, like CCs, as well as RCs, which have attained a high level of multi-racial participation in their programmes and activities. Every year, we rank our CCs and RCs, and the ranking points give weightage to more multi-racial participation. Sir, I will now address Mdm Ho Geok Choo's point about CDC. She raised three points. First, she said that because of the enlarged scope of activities, which are all very labour-intensive, do we have enough staff in the CDCs to handle these tasks. The answer is yes, because when a new function is given to the CDC it must come with the resources needed to implement these functions. This has been the understanding that the People's Association has with the various Ministries. So, if they hand over the job, they will have to also hand over the money as well as the head-counts. From that point of view, whenever we undertake a task, we will have the resources to implement it. And, very importantly, in the CDCs, the volunteers play a very important role, and they do play a big role in helping out in implementing these activities. It is through the participation of active citizens that we are, to put it this way, never alone. Mdm Ho Geok Choo also suggested having annual reports for the CDCs because she said that not many people know what the Mayors are doing. I do not know what form of annual report she is thinking of. If she is thinking about printing a proper annual report, like the Town Council's annual report, it will cost about $20,000-$30,000 to print a few hundred copies. We feel that it is not necessary. But there are a few ways that we can do to highlight more of these activities. One way is that the various CDCs do have their newsletters. Maybe they can consider, in one of the newsletters, highlighting their annual activities. So it becomes some kind of an annual report. The other possibility is for the People's Association's Annual Report to give more pages to CDCs, so that each CDC will have individual chapters and sections devoted to them. The People's Association would definitely look into this. All of us agree that we should give CDC activities as well as the Mayor's role more publicity, so that our residents would know what they are doing. Thirdly, on surpluses and whether the CDCs have been giving financial assistance to the residents, I would say that the CDCs have actually done much towards this end. Since 2001, we have taken on more local and community functions from the user Ministries. That includes Public Assistance, Rent Utilities Assistance Schemes, Small Family Improvement Scheme, and so on. In year 2002, CDCs have disbursed close to $21 million to help 24,000 needy Singaporeans of various categories. CDCs are also responsible for developing and funding childcare, student care and family service centres. All of these contribute towards social development and, in some ways, help towards the more needy families. We spent about $8 million in 2002 to develop and maintain 74 such community facilities. But CDCs also operate on the philosophy that we do not just give a fish. We want to teach people how to fish and the best welfare is to help them find work. Since December 2001, the CDCs have worked with the Ministry of Manpower to provide job matching services. So far, they have done it for 32,000 retrenched Singaporeans. We have organised 14 community job fairs as well as arranged 53 local job orientation workshops and visits to various industries, such as wafer fab, hospitality, marine and transport industries, to facilitate retrenched workers to try to work in these industries. In April 2002, we had also worked with the Ministry of Manpower to pilot the Train-and-Place Programme. This programme offers training and employment opportunities in informal sectors where there is demand for manpower. The CDCs have started the programme in areas such as domestic cleaning, eldercare, childcare, confinement nannies, spa and beauty care, netball coaching, logistics, cooking and catering, as well as horticulture and gardening. This programme is helpful for those older and lower-skilled retrenched Singaporeans. The CDCs have trained about 600 persons and about 40% of them have found jobs. About $2 million has been spent to help them. So I would want to say that the CDCs have been doing their part in helping the less well-off Singaporeans and the retrenched Singaporeans. Certainly, we will do more, but the CDC is also a people-sector community oriented organisation. The various Mayors who are seated over there have, through their channels, reached out to the community, assessed their needs and attracted new ideas and volunteers to get the programme started. This process will continue.

Sir, I want the Minister to explain something about the PA which I do not understand. The PA's purpose is to promote racial harmony and social cohesion. One thing I do not understand is that Opposition Members who are elected by the majority of the constituents are kept out of organisations or sub-organisations of the PA, like CCCs, RCs, CDCs, Boys' Club, including the CC itself. So how can you promote social cohesion when the elected Members are kept out of these organisations?

Mr Chiam, I am sorry I cannot allow that clarification. Mr Wong, you want to answer the question? All right.

It is important to answer this question because we have many new Members in this House and they are not familiar with the answers which I have given Mr Chiam in the past. PA is a Government organisation. It is a statutory board to promote Government policies which also include promoting racial harmony, social cohesion, bonding, etc. Therefore, to do this particular job it would have to be representatives from the Government benches. If Mr Chiam were to do that, we do not know whether he will be promoting what the Government wants to do because, if he does, he would not be in the Opposition.

Can I have another clarification, Sir?

Let me hear first and then I will decide whether it is a clarification or not. That was not a clarification just now, Mr Chiam, just because you said, "you do not understand" does not make it one.

I do not understand what ---

No. It must be that you do not understand what the Minister has said. If you do not understand what he said, you can ask for clarification.

That is right. Because he said the purpose is social cohesion and racial harmony.

Let me hear what you have to say first and I will decide whether it is a clarification or not.

Sir, the Opposition has never been admitted to the community centres or any of its organisations like CCCs. How does he know that the Opposition would not support the Government?

Sir, that would be the first time I hear the Opposition supports the Government. If that is the case, then we will just look at the voting records of the Opposition. I am talking about voting records because we will see that sometimes they do not support what we do. But, back to the question why Mr Chiam is not allowed in the community centre. The community centre organises activities for the people. Their advisers are there to help these grassroots organisations to do their work.

Clarification, Sir. When I say the "Government", I mean Singapore and the people of Singapore. I do not mean the "Government" as the PAP. Of course, we are always against the PAP on certain issues because we do not think that those issues are good for Singapore. If we think they are good for Singapore, we will always support.

Thank you for clarifying your own statements. Yes, Mr Low, what is it now?

Sir, clarification from the Minister. When he talks about social cohesion, I would like to seek his clarification. What does he mean by "social cohesion"? Does he also mean cohesion of the people or only cohesion of PAP supporters?

Although the party won 75% of the votes, it represents all the people, including those who did not vote for it. That is why we say we are the Government. It is also the first time that I hear this new argument from Mr Chiam that the Government is not the PAP. Actually, the Government is a PAP Government. That is very clear. I do not know how this can become the Opposition being the Government. An hon. Member: It is not a SDA government.

It is not a SDA government, for sure. It is a PAP Government, and we have a majority in this House and we form the Government. That is the meaning of "Government".

Before this question of clarification gets out of hand, let us get back to COS.

Sir, I thank the Minister and Minister of State for their responses and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment No. (2), Mr Charles Chong.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head I of the Main Estimates be reduced by $10 in respect of Code IC 1500.

Sir, there was an announcement some years ago about the freeing up of school fields for community use. I understand that a number of school fields have already been designated for community use. Could the Minister provide us an update on the scheme, and whether these school fields will be reserved mainly for use by organised football and rugby teams with only a limited period for community use?

Sir, as I have explained earlier, seven school fields will be open for community use outside the school curriculum time. The available slots are limited to mainly the evenings and weekends. About half of these slots are allocated to the NSAs, such as the NSA for football and rugby, the S-League clubs and the Constituency Sports Club. The other half of the slots are open to other organised groups such as grassroots organisations and private sports clubs. Because of the schools' concern with security, we do not open the school fields to informal groups and individuals. Instead, they are encouraged to book the SSC sports facilities. Sir, in addition, as I have mentioned earlier, some of our parks are also open to recreational sporting activities. I would therefore like to assure the Member that we are, indeed, catering to the right customers.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment No. (3), Mr Chiam.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head I of the Main Estimates be reduced by $10 in respect of Code ID 1500.

Sir, since I spoke in Parliament on the establishment of baby-drops, many babies have been reported to have been abandoned in rubbish dumps and other places. Also, two abandoned babies were found dead. If nothing is done, Sir, many more of such unwanted babies will die. Sir, the purpose of my call for the establishment of baby-drops is to save lives. I do think that the Government has a responsibility to build baby-drops for those unwanted and abandoned babies born through no fault of their own. They deserve to live and the Government must endeavour in its efforts to change the mindset of the people to accept baby-drops and, at the same time, continue to teach morality and sex education in schools for the children. Sir, I have been told that the Minister has, earlier on in the day, dealt with this issue but, nevertheless, although he does not agree with the establishment of official baby-drops, I would ask him, for the sake of saving the lives of abandoned babies, whether or not he will allow unofficial baby-drops in places like premises of charitable organisations, churches and other places of worship, private hospitals and other suitable designated places, and these places be made known to the public so that mothers with unwanted babies could put their babies there and, more importantly, these mothers suffer from shame. I think they also fear prosecution for abandoning their babies. I wonder whether the Minister could consider a kind of compromise and not prosecute these mothers when they leave their babies in these depositories specially designated for unwanted babies and treat them not as abandoning babies, but babies left for adoption. 4.00 pm

Dr Yaacob, do you want to give the same answer that you gave this morning?

Sir, let me just summarise the answer. We have discussed the issue of baby drops earlier, and we know that in the countries where they have tried, it has not really succeeded. The more important point to remember is that if the mother were to come forward to the various agencies, we will help her. It is not an offence and we will not prosecute her. What we want to assure the members of the public is that the system that we have in place is adequate. In fact, as mentioned earlier this morning, we are stepping up publicity in all the Residents' Committees with fliers to inform members of the public that they also have a role to play in helping our women folk who are affected by this to walk through the process. I would like to inform Mr Chiam that we are not in favour of having an official baby drop. But if anybody comes forward to our homes, I would encourage members of the public to use the official channels that we have in place. Officials at the homes such as Pertapis, Rose Villa and even some of the FSCs, will walk through with our women folk the options that they have, and we will ensure confidentiality of the information that they would want to volunteer to the social workers. I would like to assure Mr Chiam that the system is already in place. I cited some numbers earlier. Last year, well over 800 inquiries were received by all the various homes which are designed to help such mothers. The numbers are encouraging. The experiences in other countries have shown that baby-drops, despite being legal, have not really worked.

Sir, can I have a clarification? Although the Minister says that much publicity has been given, I just want to know whether more publicity could be given. Because we still read in the papers that babies are dying in rubbish dumps.

Sir, I agree with Mr Chiam that more publicity can be given. In fact, we have started to do so, as I mentioned earlier this morning, to put such fliers in the Residents' Committees. If the Member for Potong Pasir is interested, I can give him 50 or 100 fliers for him to pin up all over Potong Pasir.

Mr Chiam, do you now want to drop your amendment?

I thank the Minister for his answer and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment No. (4), Mr Charles Chong. You have three cuts here. Take them all together, please.

Thank you, Sir. I will take my three cuts consecutively. It will be a bit difficult for me to take all three of them together! Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head I of the Main Estimates be reduced by $10 in respect of Code IH 3100.

Sir, while going through Head I of the Budget book, there are a few clarifications I would like to seek from the Minister. The running costs of the People's Association programme, as listed on page 112 of the Budget book, indicate a large variance in the estimated FY 2002 figure and the revised FY 2002 figures. The variance amounts to more than $33 million. Could the Minister tell us what was the reason for this large variance? And can the People's Association cope with a $4.82 million reduction in its FY 2003 expenditure? Sir, on page 113 of the Budget book, I notice that a sum of $85,870,000 appears to have been set aside for a new building at the People's Association headquarters. Could the Minister enlighten us on when this new building will be constructed? And what will happen to the historical Kallang Airport building, that currently houses the People's Association? Also, on the same page of the Budget book, a sum of $10,357,200 has been allocated for the upgrading of the facilities at the National Community Leadership Institute. Could the Minister give us details on this expenditure, and will the number of training places and programmes at the Institute be substantially increased and improved as a result of this $10.3 million provision? Sir, my next cut is on community centres and community clubs. In the past, community centres served as very important focal points for community activities and interaction, especially in the kampongs and in the rural areas. The kampongs and the rural areas are now mostly gone as a result of redevelopment. However, over the years, the humble community centres have evolved into very impressive and also, sometimes, very expensive community clubs. Are community centres and community clubs still relevant today, as they were in the past, to justify the expenditure on them? There are already many clubs that cater not only for the rich and famous, but also clubs for businessmen, NSmen, policemen, civil servants, grassroots leaders, union members and others. Sir, on page 113 of the Budget book, under the People's Association development expenditure, more than a $1/4 billion, or precisely $257,720,760, appears to have been set aside for community centres and community clubs under various headings. The figures on page 115 of the Budget book indicate that the number of participants in activities organised by the 106 CCs in 2000 and 2001 and 111 CCs in 2002 is, on average, declining, from $28,000 per CC in year 2000 to $26,500 in year 2001, and $25,500 in year 2002. Could the Minister tell us whether CCs are still as relevant as they are with the aspirations of our population today? And how many more CCs are we planning to build in addition to the 111 that we already have today? Sir, my third cut is on grassroots leaders. The People's Association imposed a 65 years age limit on key appointment holders in grassroots organisations last year. More recently, the number of terms grassroots leaders can serve in key positions has been limited to three terms. Could the Minister tell us how many grassroots leaders have been retired from key positions due to the age limit, and the number of members who have to relinquish their posts within the next 12 months because of the term limit? Have there been any exceptions made to this, and what were the reasons given for these exceptions? Has there been difficulty replacing these leaders with equally competent people who have proven track records in community service, and not just academic qualifications? Earlier this year, a pilot scheme allowing residents to nominate the RC members was started in some precincts. Sir, I am delighted to learn that the scheme has been a success. However, the scheme may not go far enough to allow residents to choose their representatives. Would the Minister permit those precincts that not only want to nominate but also to elect their RC members to do so?

Sir, first and foremost, I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge the tremendous contribution of the grassroots leaders and other volunteers. Many of them are people movers and shakers who have helped shape and stabilise Singapore and are integral to the shape of Singapore to come. In fact, in the last year or so, as this House has been busy, the grassroots leaders have been equally busy. They were busy understanding and disseminating information about the 9/11 incident, the Jemaah Islamiyah arrests, the water issue and now even more needs to be done in the weeks and months to come to ensure that whatever happens in the Gulf, whatever happens to the Iraq war, there will be peace and harmony, especially religious and racial harmony, in Singapore. Most of these grassroots leaders are volunteers and, through sheer altruism, contribute their time and energy for the betterment of our community. Many sacrifice time, effort and even money. I ask myself what do they reap from it. Is it money? There is none. Is it power? Not necessarily so. Is it prestige? Well, there are only so many PBMs and BBMs. So, what then could be the greatest gift? I think it is personal growth. As they help our society to grow, what can we do to help them to grow further? I believe the People's Association is doing a tremendous job in helping to recruit new volunteers and doing part of the training. It also helps to provide some resources to help grassroots organisations like RCs and the various Cs to start up. But it can do more not only to recruit and train new volunteers but also do more for the existing volunteers. I would like the Minister to consider a few suggestions: (1) To extend the range of courses to include personal development and family management, or even in-depth courses like fundamentals of public administration and so on, because a lot of our new grassroots leaders are people of quite good calibre. When they grow, and when they can manage their family and their career better, I think they would become even better volunteers. (2) Increase funding resources to make it more generous, so that cash strapped grassroots organisations will not be hard pressed to choose between allocating resources for individual growth vis-a-vis that of community needs. (3) Organise more international exchange programmes to encourage wider experience. In an increasingly complex world, our grassroots leaders need to be well placed, and they can benefit from cross cultural exchanges of views and opinions with other like fashioned international organisations. (4) The Grassroots Club. I understand that the Grassroots Club is currently under-utilised. Perhaps more could be done to turn it into another venue for courses. It can do the part of bringing more people to the Club. I think that is good for the Club itself. And if it can also decentralise some of the training centres and make it more accessible to the grassroots, then I think it is a win-win strategy for all.

Sir, Mr Charles Chong asked three questions. Firstly, the basis for reduction of the cost and whether after the reduction, there is still enough money to run our programmes. I would say that the basis for reduction of the cost takes a bit to explain. Perhaps we can talk about it separately, as I do not have the details with me here. The more important question is whether the reduction would affect our activities. Part of the answer was actually given when I answered an earlier question. Although we are doing more, firstly, we are not the only Government agency that has a reduction in expenditure. The budget situation being very tight this year, I think all of us would have to exercise an economy drive. We all have to apply our mind to make the dollar stretch further. So the People's Association will be doing that. Secondly, as I mentioned earlier, we rely on volunteers to carry out a lot of our activities. When we have new functions, they will come together with the resources, the manpower, headcount as well as the money. When there is a new function that is to be allocated, we will go to the Ministry of Finance for additional funding. And when there is a need, the Ministry of Finance is usually helpful. I am not saying that the process is necessarily easy. They will scrutinise our justification. But if there is a need to do certain projects and there is additional need for money, it will be given. Mr Charles Chong asked about the new building. The building activity in the People's Association is actually to replace some of the old container-type temporary buildings housing many of our subordinate organisations. If Members come to the People's Association at the west block, they will find many such temporary buildings and, currently, there is building activity to build something more permanent. So there is no question of tearing down our facilities at Kallang and rebuild. That particular item is not for that purpose. As far as the National Community Leadership Institute (NACLI) is concerned, it is actually related to Miss Penny Low's point on whether we are going to spend additional money on NACLI and whether there has been any increase in the type of courses. Perhaps I will address this point a little later. Mr Charles Chong also asked whether the community centres are still relevant. Of course, they are still relevant. We know that, nowadays, people have more choices. There are other places to go to. But all our community centres and community clubs are doing their bit to make themselves relevant and to attract the residents to come to them. Despite the slight decline in the number of attendance at the community centres, they are still relevant. We will take into consideration the needs when we build the community clubs and community centres. If we find that there is already a declining population or attendance at the community centre, then that community centre or community club may be closed. So this particular review is going on all the time. 4.15 pm Mr Charles Chong asked about the age limit for the grassroots leaders, as well as for certain figures. On 1st April 2002, the People's Association introduced the retirement age limit of 65 only for key grassroots leaders. These are for the Chairmen, Secretaries and Treasurers of the CCCs and the CCMCs. On 1st February 2003, we implemented a new guideline limiting the tenure of RC and Neighbourhood Committee Chairman to only three consecutive terms, with a total of six years. The objective of these new guidelines really is to encourage leadership renewal within the CCCs, CCMCs, RCs and MCs, especially in those key posts like Chairman, Secretary as well as Treasurer. For these three members who have stepped down, there are other options for them. They can be committee members and continue to serve. In the case of the Chairman, for those who are very outstanding, they can become honorary patron or immediate past Chairman and can continue to contribute their experience as well as their knowledge. I must say that the implementation has been smooth. Since 1st April 2002, 24 key appointment holders in the CCCs and CCMCs have relinquished their posts with the new guideline. Another 16 key CCC and CCMC office bearers would be due to retire in the next 12 months, in accordance with the age limit. Also, a total of 111 RC and two NC Chairmen would be due to step down in the next 12 months when they reach a three-year term. Some would be appointed, as I have said, as immediate past Chairmen. To-date, seven new RCs have new Chairmen as a result of this rule. Only two appeals have been received so far to extend the term and these are under consideration. So, generally, the implementation has been smooth. There are a small number of cases of advisors coming to appeal to say that this particular person is still very much needed and we will consider, but the number is small. If the justification is there, we would allow. Mr Charles Chong also asked about the residents' nomination scheme. This scheme is currently piloted in 21 RCs. Amongst them, 19 have carried out the exercise and the remaining two RCs will complete the exercise by August 2003. To-date, the 19 RCs have received a total of 65 nominations, and amongst them, 32 have already been appointed into the RCs. We have people coming from all walks of life and profession. I think the results are very, very encouraging. The scheme is there to actually supplement the existing system of appointing grassroots leaders. In other words, it is an additional alternative to try and encourage more people to come in. The results, I must say, have proven that the scheme is a useful additional means of recruiting new RC leaders. PA is prepared to consider extending the scheme to the other RCs if advisors recommend so. If Mr Charles Chong is interested, we can talk about it later. By the way, this is not an election scheme. It is just an additional system to bring in new grassroots leaders. Miss Penny Low talked about the training for the grassroots leaders. Yes, I certainly agree with Miss Penny Low about the contribution given by the grassroots leaders. When the grassroots leaders join us, the most important attribute that they must have is the heart to serve. If they have a heart to serve and when they actually start to serve, they would pick up the skills along the way. This has been the kind of so-called training that a grassroots leader will receive. If we ask some of our grassroots leaders what they have benefited from being a grassroots leader, they would tell you that it is the exposure, the opportunity to enlarge the circle of one's contacts, as well as to enrich one's life. So, the experience of participating in a grassroots organisation is already a very good form of training. But, of course, there are other training opportunities available. For example, the National Community Leadership Institute (NACLI), which Mr Charles Chong mentioned by quoting from the Budget book, organises a very, very broad list of courses. If he wants, we can provide more details. But I will just read out some of the titles ---

Mr Chan, we have another amendment to deal with.

Okay, Sir. We will share with him the details later. But take it from me that we have organised a very broad range of courses, and we will continue to extend the range of courses. And I think that justifies the additional money that we need in order to fund NACLI. The advisors can certainly approach NACLI to tailor some courses for the volunteers to go for leadership courses. I think I have more or less addressed most of the questions, Sir.

Sir, I look forward to having a separate meeting with the Minister of State and I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment No. (5), Mr Chong.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head I of the Main Estimates be reduced by $10 in respect of Code IM 1500. Sir, could the Minister provide the House with the latest figures on the number of applicants for the CCC assistance scheme and the number who has been successful? We were told that the number of applicants is decreasing. Could the Minister confirm that the figures are indeed decreasing after the media conference on this subject by MOF, and by how much? Sir, the Second Minister for Finance had told the House that he was unaware of the cost in administering the CCC assistance scheme as the scheme was administered by the People's Association. Could the Minister therefore tell us how much has been spent, in terms of public funds and manpower cost, in the administration of the scheme?

Sir, when Mr Charles Chong asked a question in the House earlier this month, the Second Minister for Finance told us that the scheme attracted something like 14,000 applications and, out of the 14,000, only two were successful, and they were given a very princely sum of $177. Sir, I know the Second Minister went at great length to explain the rationale behind the scheme and, in fact, he said that it was an opportunity for us to calculate to the applicants to show specifically that the offset package that they get more than pays for the additional GST expenditure, and that he thinks that it also allows us to win the converts to the GST scheme. Sir, I am not too sure about this. All I know is that I had one experience trying to explain the scheme to an old man and to tell him why he could not qualify. All he did, at the end, was to look at me and say, "Wah boh kow ree." - money not enough. I am not so concerned with the dollars and cents of implementing the scheme, but I think the danger here is the political cost to the Government. We have given so much publicity to the scheme. A lot of people have come. Yes, I know there are some who just come to try their luck. But, at the end of the day, I think we have a lot of people leaving with a sour taste in their mouths. Since our experience in 1994, when we first had this scheme - at that time, we only had 30 applications and this time, we just have two - I am wondering why we want to have such a scheme. Since we have the money, ie, $3 million allocated, it would be better to have this money given to the welfare fund of all CCCs. If we divide $3 million by 84 constituencies, I think each of us would get $35,000. I am sure that, over the years, MPs and the grassroots leaders have got the experience to tell the genuine ones from the needy ones. And I think we could do with a bit more money to help those who are really deserving in our constituencies.

Sir, to understand the phenomenon, we have got to see the CCC assistance scheme in context. The scheme was there because there was an assurance by the Government that, with the introduction of the GST plus all the rebates and relief, nobody will lose out overall in tax terms in the next five years. And in order to put the money where the mouth is, the Government has set aside $3 million and anybody who feels that he has lost out can come and apply, and the money is there and we will give the rebate. In 1994, the scheme was there when GST was first introduced. Therefore, when we increased the GST this time, there must be a scheme there to give the same assurance. There is, of course, a difference in the situation between 1994 and 2002. In 1994, we were doing well economically and there were no such handouts, so to speak, from the Budget. There was no EDRS. There were no various types of rebate schemes. Therefore, the people would just apply when they thought they were eligible. But, now, after introducing the various schemes to help the people because our economy is doing badly, when they hear about this, they feel that it is some kind of a handout. Therefore, 20,000 people applied. Mr Charles Chong asked whether we use additional resources. We did not use additional resources. Our CCC staff and grassroots leaders mobilise themselves to try to explain to the residents who come. It has not been easy. But there is no additional public money involved, partly because we did not expect that type of response. Now, the number has indeed dwindled. In the first two weeks of February, it was 3,500; and in the last two weeks of February it was 1,800. So I think people are beginning to understand what the scheme is all about and they are not coming forward to apply anymore. Mr Tan Soo Khoon says that since we do not need the $3 million, why not give it to the welfare schemes. The current financial procedure does not allow us to do so. The $3 million was set aside for this purpose. If it is not used, it has got to be returned to the Ministry of Finance.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $626,566,030 for Head I ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $136,023,900 for Head I ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

I shall now deal with the remaining heads of expenditure in respect of which no amendments stand on the Order Paper Supplement. In respect of the Main Estimates, they are Heads C and Z. I propose to take those heads of expenditure en bloc. Question, "That the sums stated for those Heads of Expenditure which appear in the last column of the Schedule of estimated expenditure under the Main Estimates on page 24 of Paper Cmd. 4 of 2003 stand part of the Main Estimates," put and agreed to.

In respect of the Development Estimates, it is Head C. The sum of $260,700 for Head C ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Question, "That the sum of $30,857,810,580 shall be supplied to the Government under the Heads of Expenditure for the public services shown in the Main Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 2003 to 31st March, 2004, contained in Paper Cmd. 4 of 2003," put and agreed to. Question, "That the sum of $18,680,464,300 shall be supplied to the Government under the Heads of Expenditure for the public services shown in the Development Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 2003 to 31st March, 2004, contained in Paper Cmd. 4 of 2003," put and agreed to. Resolutions to be reported.

Thereupon, Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply have come to certain resolutions. First Resolution reported - "That the sum of $30,857,810,580 shall be supplied to the Government under the Heads of Expenditure for the public services shown in the Main Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 2003 to 31st March, 2004, contained in Paper Cmd. 4 of 2003." Second Resolution reported - "That the sum of $18,680,464,300 shall be supplied to the Government under the Heads of Expenditure for the public services shown in the Development Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 2003 to 31st March, 2004, contained in Paper Cmd. 4 of 2003."

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That Parliament doth agree with the Committee on the said resolutions."

Question put, and agreed to. Resolutions accordingly agreed to.

Order for Second and Third Readings read.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." In accordance with Article 148(1) of the Constitution, heads of expenditure to be met from the Consolidated Fund and Development Fund, other than statutory expenditure, have to be included in a Bill to be known as the Supply Bill. The purpose of the Supply Bill before Members is therefore to give legislative approval for the appropriations from the Consolidated Fund and Development Fund to meet expenditures in the financial year 1st April 2003 to 31st March, 2004. The heads of expenditure and the sums that may be incurred in respect of each head are shown in the Schedule to the Bill. These have been approved by the House in the Main and Development Estimates of Expenditure for the financial year 1st April, 2003 to 31st March, 2004, and appear on pages 24 and 25 of Cmd. Paper No. 4 of 2003. The Supply Bill, when approved, will empower me to issue warrants, authorising expenditure up to the amount for each head as shown in the Bill to be paid out from the Consolidated Fund and the Development Fund. Sir, I beg to move.

Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time.

Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Third time."

Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Third time and passed.

Order for Second Reading read.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." The purpose of this Bill is to make provision in accordance with Articles 148(2) and 148C(2) of the Constitution for additional expenditure in excess of the provisions authorised by the Supply Act 2002 and the Supplementary Supply (FY2002) Act, 2002. The additional sum has been presented as Second Supplementary Estimates which have been considered and approved by the House as Command Paper No. 3 of 2003. Sir, I beg to move.

Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time.

Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Third time."

Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Third time and passed.

Order for Second Reading read. 4.40 pm

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." The Infectious Diseases Act provides for the control and prevention of infectious diseases in Singapore. This includes provisions to undertake investigations and institute control measures, including vaccinations and quarantine, to prevent the spread or the introduction of any infectious disease into Singapore. Today, I propose new amendments to the Act to enable the transfer of the existing medical related functions required for the prevention and control of infectious diseases from the Ministry of the Environment to the Ministry of Health, to expand the definitions of infectious disease, and to enhance the Minister for Health's authority to order mandatory vaccinations. Mr Speaker, Sir, I shall now highlight the major amendments that are being introduced in this Bill. Historically, environmental health, quarantine and epidemiology, which include infectious disease surveillance and the investigation of outbreaks, were carried out by MOH. When the Ministry was established in 1972, it was made in charge of environmental public health, which includes the provision of safe water supply, public cleansing, solid waste and sewage disposal, drainage and control of food hygiene. As the control of many prevalent infectious diseases in the 1970s was closely related to environmental issues, the environmental health quarantine and epidemiology functions of MOH were transferred to ENV in 1972. These functions were taken over by the National Environment Agency (NEA) when it was formed on 1st July 2002. Currently, the surveillance and control of infectious diseases are shared between MOH and NEA. Their responsibilities are divided according to the type of disease. Diseases like typhoid fever and hand, foot and mouth disease come under NEA. But tuberculosis and HIV AIDS are under the purview of MOH. The current system works reasonably well for the surveillance and control of known diseases, for which the division of work between MOH and ENV is well established. However, we need to develop new expertise to deal with new dangers from communicable diseases. At present, almost similar expertise is being developed and deployed in the two Ministries for the surveillance and control of diseases under their respective purview. This has resulted in some duplication of work and efficiency loss. Nationally, new expertise has to be developed to tackle emerging diseases and new health threats arising from bio-safety and bio-terrorism concerns. Instead of continuing with the current path of developing expertise in the two Ministries, it would be more efficient and cost effective to concentrate capability development within one Ministry. For this reason, the medical related functions for the investigation, prevention and control of infectious disease outbreaks, which are currently carried out by the National Environment Agency, will be transferred to the Ministry of Health with effect from 1st April 2003. NEA will continue to be responsible for the environmental determinants of health, such as environmental sanitation, food hygiene and vector control. This includes quarantine and port health, cleanliness of public areas, inspection of premises, control of vectors, environmental sampling, and execution of any environment-related measures in response to outbreaks. With the transfer of the medical related functions for the investigation, prevention and control of infectious disease outbreaks to MOH, the following amendments are necessary in the Infectious Diseases Act. Firstly, the existing Infectious Diseases Act empowers the Director-General of Public Health, NEA, to carry out infectious disease outbreak investigations and control. The revised Act will transfer this authority to the Director of Medical Services. Secondly, the revised Act also provides for the transfer of authority from the Minister for the Environment to the Minister for Health to declare an area as an infected area when there is reason to believe that an infectious disease may be introduced into Singapore from the infected area. Thirdly, the authority to regulate the importation of disease-causing organism will now rest with the Director of Medical Services, while the Director-General of Public Health, NEA, will retain his current role in regulating the importation of disease-causing vectors. Fourthly, the Bill revises the Act to amend the definition of health officers to include any person who is appointed by the Director-General of Public Health, NEA, or the Director of Medical Services. This is to cater to the expanded role of MOH officers with the transfer of the medical related functions from NEA to MOH. Currently, NEA officers are empowered under the Environmental Public Health Act, Environmental Public Health Regulations, Sale of Food Act, and the Control of Vectors and Pesticides Act, to carry out functions related to the prevention, investigation and control of infectious disease outbreaks. This Bill revises the Infectious Diseases Act so that similar provisions will be included in the Infectious Diseases Act to enable MOH to better investigate and prevent the spread of infectious diseases in Singapore. The revised Infectious Diseases Act will empower MOH officers to enter premises without a warrant for the purposes of inspection and search. They will be given the authority to take samples or confiscate any matter that is implicated in an outbreak. The person from whom the matter has been seized will be given the opportunity to lodge a complaint within a stipulated time to a magistrate's court against the seizure. The magistrate can then confirm or disallow the seizure, or even order that the owner be compensated for the loss resulting from the seizure. The amended Act will include provisions which require persons to furnish information which may be useful in the investigations and, for persons suspected of being infected with an infectious disease, to submit themselves for medical examination and undergo treatment, where necessary. Sir, if investigations indicate that a public place is implicated in an outbreak, the amended Act allows MOH to close or cordon off that public place, so as to prevent further transmission of the infectious disease. However, this power of closure does not apply when such power has already been conferred by law to another Government agency or statutory board. For instance, in the event of an outbreak of hand, foot and mouth disease among young children, it may be necessary to close down childcare centres as a measure to control the outbreak. The authority to close down such places would be with MCDS. On the other hand, if there is an outbreak of a highly contagious infectious disease within the premises which are not licensed by any authority, the provisions in the Bill will give the authority to MOH to close down or cordon off the premises to prevent further transmission of the infectious disease. New Provisions Sir, let me now highlight some of the new provisions that are provided for in the Bill. The definition of infectious diseases in the Act will be revised since the current Infectious Diseases Act defines "infectious diseases" as diseases that are listed in the First Schedule of the Act. This means that under the existing Infectious Diseases Act, the provisions of the Act cannot be applied unless the implicated infectious disease is already listed under the First Schedule. This change is particularly important in the modern age of rapid travel, where new infectious diseases, eg, West Nile Encephalitis, Avian-Flu, etc, can potentially spread rapidly to other countries. The definition of "infectious diseases" in the Act will, therefore, be revised to encompass all infectious diseases, rather than be limited to those listed in the First Schedule. Another new provision introduced in the Bill will enhance the Minister for Health's authority to order mandatory vaccination. The existing Infectious Diseases Act empowers the Minister for Health to require any person, who is not protected or vaccinated against an infectious disease, to be vaccinated, if there is an outbreak of the disease in Singapore. If there is an outbreak overseas, the existing provision will not apply, even though vaccination may be judged necessary for public health reasons to prevent the spread of the outbreak to Singapore. The Bill therefore revises the Act to allow the Minister for Health to order mandatory vaccination, even when there is no outbreak in Singapore when this is necessary to prevent the spread of the disease here. The Bill also makes it an offence for persons with infectious diseases and who are likely to spread the disease to default on their medical examination and treatment when they are required to do so by the Director of Medical Services. It also gives MOH officers powers to arrest such defaulters. Since 1972, the control and prevention of infectious diseases in Singapore has been a shared responsibility between MOH and ENV/NEA. Now, with the rationalisation of public health functions and the transfer of all medical-related public health functions from NEA/ENV to MOH, MOH will take charge of the surveillance, monitoring, outbreak investigations and control of all infectious diseases. MOH will assume lead responsibility in the event of any infectious disease outbreak. NEA/ENV will continue to be responsible for the environmental determinants of health. Mr Speaker, Sir, the proposed amendments to the Infectious Diseases Act, as outlined in the Bill, will enable my Ministry to effectively carry out the public health functions which are being transferred by NEA/ENV to MOH. The amendments will also help to enhance our responsiveness so as to enable effective prevention and timely control of all infectious disease outbreaks in Singapore. Sir, I beg to move. Question proposed.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I stand to speak in support of the Infectious Diseases (Amendment) Bill. The amendment in this Bill that enables the for the prevention and control of all communicable diseases, such as prevention and control of outbreaks, notifications, surveillance and investigations, from the National Environment Agency (NEA) to Ministry of Health (MOH) is appropriate, and I welcome it. Sir, the Ministry of Health is most suited to assume this responsibility of prevention and control of all communicable diseases. The Ministry of Health is in a better position to understand the different types of communicable diseases and is able to monitor the diseases better because those affected are usually under its care. Furthermore, the Ministry of Health has the support of personnel and laboratories to better investigate any diseases, is in a better position to inform and notify diseases more effectively, and is able to involve all the doctors in Singapore in the surveillance of any outbreak. This Bill is relevant indeed in view of the new infectious disease named Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome (SARS) that is threatening us presently. The amendment in new section 2(c) of this Bill enlarges the definition of "infectious disease" to include certain diseases not specified in the First Schedule, but if left uninvestigated or unchecked, would result in an epidemic of that disease. SARS definitely falls into this ambit as it is not listed in the First Schedule, although it is a highly contagious and dangerous disease. Bio-terrorism is also the concern of the day. A good example would be the recent Anthrax scare. Anthrax is another example of a highly dangerous infectious disease that is not in the First Schedule. Sir, only 10 days ago, on 12th March, the World Health Organisation issued a global alert about the outbreak of SARS. As of today, there are 34 Singaporeans with SARS. Other than the initial three cases, there are an additional 31 patients who had been admitted to hospital. All these have been in close contact with the patients of SARS. My question to the Minister of State is which Ministry is taking on the responsibilities of the urgent situation of SARS now, since the transfer of responsibility from NEA to MOH is scheduled to be effective only from 1st April. We need to have one Ministry taking the lead responsibility and seeing through the whole process. Otherwise, this transitional stage will be detrimental to our well-being. Could the Minister of State enlighten us on what has been done by the Ministry of Health and what role had been played by the National Environment Agency (NEA) with regard to SARS? Sir, clause 13 amends section 32 to transfer the responsibility for the cleansing, disinfection and treatment of infected vessels, vehicles and personal effects to the Director and Health Officers authorised by the Director. May I ask the Minister of State how the Ministry of Health is preparing to take over this responsibility as this will be completely new for MOH? Are there personnel that can assume this role in MOH? Is MOH setting up a new department to take over this role? Sir, clause 20 of this Bill empowers the Minister to order mandatory vaccination of persons in certain cases. May I seek the assurance from the Minister of State that this order will not be taken lightly until it is proven to be absolutely necessary? This is due to the fact that vaccines are not without side-effects themselves. At times, they can do more harm than good in some people. Moreover, we may not be aware of the long-term side-effects of certain vaccines. Even if this order is implemented, we have to be mindful that it is not a blanket order without exception, as it may kill people, such as the frail-elderly, the infants and those with immune deficiencies. Sir, section 29 of the Infectious Diseases Act seems to empower the Director-General or Port Health Office to obtain information to ascertain the health of the persons on board. But there is no provision for the "Entry Declaration" for travellers coming into Singapore. Sir, it was reported in the Straits Times today by Salma Kahlik that the three Singaporean women, who brought SARS here, had been traced to a Hongkong hotel. They were all staying on the same floor as the doctor who has since died. In view of this current outbreak of SARS, and the fact that SARS is highly contagious and potentially deadly, should we not make sure that there is provision in this Bill to provide implementation of urgent measure on the containment of this illness? Sir, it may be prudent that we take steps to ensure that travellers do not enter Singapore without declaring that they are free of such disease and/or not in contact with person who had contracted such disease. May I ask therefore whether we can implement a clause of "Entry Declaration" for travellers by way of subsidiary legislation? Sir, I hope that the Minister of State can address my concerns.

Sir, first let me explain a little bit about the role of MOH and NEA with regard to managing and preventing disease outbreaks. NEA has capabilities in dealing with the environment and how we can change things in the environment that can cause disease. MOH has the expertise in treating people who are sick and diagnosing illness in sick people. Both NEA and MOH have always worked together and they will continue to work together. What has happened in the last 30 years is that our concerns have shifted. In the past, our concern was more primary focus on outbreaks of diseases like malaria, dengue and food poisoning. In the future, our concerns will be more on infectious diseases like SARS as well as bio-terrorism. Since these new types of diseases that we are concerned about will be first handled and seen by MOH rather than ENV, the department has been shifted from ENV to MOH. However, even with the shift, MOH and ENV will have to work together. In the current outbreak, there is a task force monitoring the management of this outbreak. It is chaired by DMS, and it includes NEA officers, as well as all other relevant people involved. They meet every day and they make decisions so that there is a coordinated response. With regard to her second concern, which is on vaccination, it will require some extraordinary events in countries outside Singapore before we will consider ordering vaccination of Singaporeans to protect ourselves from such an infection. Dr Lily Neo wanted to know what measures we have taken with regard to SARS and how we can prevent the disease from coming into Singapore. Let me give a brief history of how the disease came to Singapore. Dr Neo is correct. A professor of medicine from Guangzhou fell ill while in Hongkong. He stayed at a hotel in Hongkong on 21st and 22nd February. He had previously been treating pneumonia cases in Guangzhou. He infected seven persons at the hotel, including the three Singaporeans. The three Singaporeans returned on 25th February 2003 and they were well at that time. Between 1st and 3rd March, they fell ill and they were admitted to our hospitals as cases of pneumonia. On 6th March, WHO issued an alert that healthcare workers in Hanoi, who had treated an American who had come from Hong Kong, were falling ill. When WHO issued this alert, MOH instructed hospitals to isolate the three patients and to implement stringent isolation measures. Between 14th March and 21st March, which is today, 36 patients have been admitted with SARS. Half of them are healthcare workers, half are family friends and close contacts. Infections in all the cases have been traced to contact with the first three cases when they were not isolated. So far, we have no case of a person being infected after the first three patients were isolated, or of any infections coming from contact with the 36 patients who have now been admitted and isolated. So, having legislation to prevent people coming in or through declarations is not necessarily an effective measure to prevent the disease from coming into Singapore. The steps taken by MOH to control the infection are the following: We want to identify all suspected cases early. So MOH has informed the public on what symptoms to look out for. All hospitals and doctors have been notified on the evaluation of these cases and what measures to take. The disease has also been made a notifiable disease under the Infectious Diseases Act. All patients admitted are in strict isolation. There have also been measures implemented in emergency rooms so that triage nurses would know how to deal with suspected cases. NEA officers have been doing contact tracing. They call all contacts daily and check on their status. Health advisories have been issued to airlines on what precautions they should take to prevent sick people boarding their planes so that these sick people will not enter Singapore. Health advisories would also be issued to parents, schools, pre-schools and childcare centres and, directly, parents will be told to look out for fever in their children, if they have recently travelled to areas where this disease has been known to occur. The task force looking after the disease meets daily and issues press alerts and updates the public on what happens. The information is also on the MOH website and there is a hotline that the public can call. Sir, this outbreak is quite serious. We still have 37 patients in the hospital, five of whom are critically ill. We are not out of the woods, but the outbreak appears to be under control. We can be sure only in one or two weeks' time. We are working closely with WHO and CDC to try to control this outbreak.

I just want to seek clarification, Sir. Should we think that we need to implement self-declaration by travellers later on, can we implement the clause of the entry declaration by way of subsidiary legislation? Could I also ask whether our public is getting sufficient advice and guidance presently with regard to SARS?

I think the public has been given all the necessary advice and we will continue to update the public if there is any further advice that they need to know. With regard to whether it can be done by way of subsidiary legislation, we will ask our experts to look into it.

Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Dr Balaji Sadasivan]. Bill considered in Committee; reported without amendment; read a Third time and passed.

Order for Second Reading read.

Mr Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." The Bill will amend the International Enterprise Singapore Board Act, or IES Board Act in short, to effect the formation of Singapore Customs on 1st April 2003. I shall now elaborate on the amendments in the Bill. Singapore Customs will be a department under the Ministry of Finance. It will be a merger of: (a) the revenue enforcement and trade documentation branches of the Customs and Excise Department; and (b) the Trade Facilitation Division and Statistical Audit Unit, of the IES Board. Sir, the role of Singapore Customs will be revenue collection and enforcement, and trade facilitation, including trade enforcement measures related to free trade agreements. Clause 2 of the Bill inserts a new Part V-A into the IES Board Act to transfer some of the undertakings and employees of IES to Singapore Customs. The undertakings include all property used or managed by the Trade Facilitation Division and the Statistical Audit Unit, as well as all assets and obligations of the Board relating to these departments. The transfer of the employees will be on terms no less favourable than those enjoyed by them prior to the transfer. Clause 3 of the Bill amends other Acts to effect the transfer of relevant responsibilities from IE Singapore to Singapore Customs. These Acts are: (a) the Regulation of Imports and Exports Act; (b) the Statistics Act; and (c) the Strategic Goods (Control) Act.; Sir, I beg to move.

Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Mr Lim Hng Kiang]. Bill considered in Committee; reported without amendment; read a Third time and passed.

Order for Second Reading read.

Mr Speaker, Sir, on behalf of the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister for Finance, I beg to move, "That the Bill be now read a Second time." The Bill will amend the Customs Act: (a) to change the basis of valuation for goods levied with ad valorem excise duties; (b) to allow the Minister to be able to grant remission of duties, taxes, fees or other charges payable; (c) to empower the Director-General of Customs in certain operational matters; (d) to remove provisions that are operational and administrative in nature from the Customs Act; (e) to streamline and clarify provisions in the Customs Act; (f) to remove provisions that are obsolete due to changes in policies and operational procedures; and (g) to make consequential changes as a result of the formation of Singapore Customs. I shall now elaborate on the main amendments in the Bill. Change in Basis of Valuation for Motor Vehicles Currently, the basis of valuation used for the purpose of determining the excise duty for motor vehicles is the Brussels Definition of Value. Clause 8 of the Bill amends section 22 of the Customs Act to change the basis of valuation to the Customs Valuation Code, or CVC. The CVC is an internationally adopted basis of valuation, increasingly used by many countries. The new basis will exclude obligatory expenses such as advertising, promotion, warranties, showroom and warehousing costs. This move will result in a lower value for most motor vehicles, and hence lower the excise duties and Additional Registration Fees collected on these vehicles. Allowing Minister to Grant Remission Currently, the Minister can only grant exemption and refund of duties, taxes, fees and other charges paid or payable by a person. Clause 6 of the Bill amends section 13 to allow the Minister to be able to also grant a remission of duties, taxes, fees or other charges payable. A similar provision is also found in other pieces of tax legislation, for example, the Income Tax Act and the Goods and Services Tax Act. Empowerment of Director-General of Customs The Bill also amends the Act to empower the Director-General of Customs in several operational matters so as to give Singapore Customs more operational flexibility. This will in turn improve administrative efficiency. For example, clause 5 of the Bill inserts a new section 11, which allows the Director-General of Customs to waive the payment, or recovery of payment, of any duty, tax, fee or other charge, where the amount does not exceed $20. Removal of Operational/Administrative Requirements from Customs Act The Bill streamlines the Act by removing provisions that are operational and administrative in nature. These provisions will instead be part of the subsidiary legislation relating to the Customs Act, so that operational and administrative rules can be changed quickly in line with the rapidly changing environment. For example, clause 9 of the Bill amends section 34 of the Act, which specifies the types and amount of dutiable goods that travellers can bring into Singapore without permits. By not specifying such detailed quantitative limits in the Act itself, adjustments can be made more quickly when necessary. Streamlining and Clarification of Provisions The Customs Act will be amended to streamline some provisions and to clarify several other provisions. For example, clause 16 of the Bill amends section 93 of the Act to clearly describe the situations where travellers are required to declare the goods at the checkpoints. Removal of Obsolete Sections The Bill amends the Act to remove sections that are obsolete due to changes in policies and operational procedures. One example of an obsolete section is section 35 which requires hard-copy permits not used to be returned to CED within 24 hours or as soon as CED's office is open. Clause 10 of the Bill repeals this section since hard-copy permits are no longer used today. Permits are declared and approved electronically. They will be automatically invalidated upon expiry. Formation of Singapore Customs Clauses 2 and 24 of the Bill will give legislative effect to consequential changes to sections 3(1), 98 and 138 of the Customs Act needed as a result of the formation of Singapore Customs on 1st April 2003. Clause 26 of the Bill amends other pieces of legislation, like the Income Tax Act and the Immigration Act, which are needed as a result of the formation of Singapore Customs. Sir, I beg to move.

Question put, and agreed to. Bill accordingly read a Second time and committed to a Committee of the whole House. The House immediately resolved itself into a Committee on the Bill. - [Mr Lim Hng Kiang]. Bill considered in Committee; reported without amendment; read a Third time and passed.

Mr Speaker, Sir, on behalf of Members, I would like to thank you for chairing the Committee of Supply and also the Budget debate during the last 11 days. We have also extended our sitting hours, starting from 11.00 am, so that we can start earlier to deal with the 707 amendments, a record, that were moved in the Committee of Supply. Of these, about 9% was taken up by one Member. As a result of this, you have strictly applied the guillotine. I think some Members felt that they did not get the full answers or did not have enough time to expand on their points. Maybe I can dispense this piece of advice, ie, please do not wait until the Committee of Supply to ask all these questions. Make full use of the Question Time and during the Committee of Supply to make as many points as they want, but in a succinct and precise manner to get information that they do not normally get at other times. If Members also do not have time to raise questions despite one-and-a-half hours of Question Time, as we have many Questions and therefore not all Questions can be answered on the same day, please feel free to move a motion. Members have all the time to make their points during the debate on the motion. If they think that one hour is too long for the motion, maybe they can move a motion of adjournment. I am sure some of us will stay behind to listen to them! To avoid the need to be guillotined, please bear that in mind. Make full use of Question Time, motions and adjournment motions, or even at other times, to ask questions, not necessarily in this House. But if Members want to have an answer and they want to make a statement, by all means, they can also make their statement to the press without having to come to this Chamber. On that note, Sir, I beg to move, That Parliament do now adjourn to a date to be fixed.

Hon. Members, we live in difficult times. The economy is glum. The war has broken out in Iraq. But from my vantage position here, I could sense the gloom and anxiety in hon. Members' speeches about the state of the world and how we are affected by our regional and global economic and political conditions. But amidst the gloom and doom, I also sense a resolve among hon. Members, a gritting of the teeth, as it were, in not wanting to allow the challenges facing us overwhelm our spirit and kill our aspirations and hopes. We talked about a "wow" city, London of the East, changes in mindset. Mr Lim Swee Say even had time to hold a conversation with Mr NEWater! We have had a gruelling session over the past two weeks. Most Members have done well in this debate, both in content and in the earnestness of their speeches. I would like to congratulate them. I especially thank those Members who gave their cooperation by keeping their speeches to within a reasonable length. I apologise profusely to those Members whose speeches I have had to guillotine, although my staff tell me that there is, in fact, a lower proportion of such speeches this year. This is of some comfort to me, hon. Members, for now I can go back to being my soft-spoken, gentle and likeable self again! Still, being an eternal optimist and an incorrigible believer in the power of life-long learning, I hope to hear fewer long speeches next year or, preferably, none at all. I therefore look forward to an even better Budget debate in 2004. If I may borrow a phrase from Mr Khaw Boon Wan, "For us, good is not good enough." So, let me end by thanking my Deputy Speakers, the Leader of the House and the Whip, and their deputies, and the Parliament staff for their assistance and guidance. Until the next Budget sitting, good day and thank you. [Applause].

Resolved, "That Parliament do now adjourn to a date to be fixed." - [Mr Wong Kan Seng]. Adjourned according at Twenty Minutes past Five o'clock pm to a date to be fixed