Hansard, 1971-03-19

asked the Minister for Communications the extent to which consideration has been given to legislation against jaywalking.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Ministry is of the opinion that our present effort in building more and better facilities for pedestrians crossing the roads is a more positive approach than the legislation against jaywalking pedestrians. Overhead bridges, zebra crossings and underpasses, for example, go a long way to help pedestrians cross the road safely and, in most cases, it would appear that they do make use of the facilities provided. However, the Ministry is keeping a close watch on the situation to ensure that overhead bridges, zebra crossings, etc., are not built in vain. If subsequent reports indicate that we are not successful in persuading the pedestrians to make the best use of the facilities provided for crossing the roads. Consideration will be given to introduce legislation to compel the use of such facilities by pedestrians.

asked the Minister for Education what are the criteria for the allocation of places to stallholders in school tuckshops.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the basic principle is that the school children should get the best nourishment and value for the money they spend. The criteria for the allocation of places to stallholders in school tuckshops are contained in the regulations governing the management of school tuckshops. They are based roughly on the following considerations. First, they must be Singapore citizens. Second, ability to prepare well the food to be sold, give good service, observe high hygienic standards and conduct business in person. Third, the financial position. We usually give preference to those receiving social aid. Fourth, preference will be given to those residing nearest to the school.

Mr Speaker, Sir, can the Minister of State tell us how his Ministry manage to do all the things that he has mentioned? Do they have people who are connoisseurs of food to ensure that the best food is provided at the cheapest cost, or is the work undertaken by a committee consisting of people who have been selected at random?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I presume the Member is referring to the preparation of food. This is usually based on the opinion of the principal and teachers and the standing committee if it is appointed.

asked the Minister for Law and National Development if he will consider the construction of bus bays or shelters at all existing bus-stops along Upper Thomson Road between Mm Hock Road and Windsor Park Road.

Mr Speaker, Sir, four bus bays and five bus shelters will be constructed along Upper Thomson Road between Mm Hock Road and Windsor Park Road as soon as the service cables are laid and other road work completed along this stretch of road.

asked the Minister for Finance if he will take steps to curb increases in the prices of daily necessities.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the question of the increase in prices was thoroughly aired by Members and adequately answered by the Minister for Finance during the budget debate two days ago, on the 17th of this month. The Government is keenly interested in stable prices and will do everything within its power to see that there is no unwarranted increase in the price of any goods, especially of daily necessities. But there are limitations to what we can do. This is because we are an open economy and we import most of our goods which are, therefore, subject to fluctuations in world prices. I take it that daily necessities mean food, housing and clothing. Let us examine these three broad groups to find out whether there is any rise in their prices and the reasons for such rise. On food, we are self-sufficient only in pork, poultry and eggs; the rest of our foodstuffs like rice, sugar, fish, fresh vegetables, are imported. The price of sugar was recently increased by three cents per kati, but this was because the world price of raw sugar went up sharply --- something over which we have no control. There has, however, been a fall in the price of rice recently by some five cents a kati. The statistics gathered by the Statistics Department indicate that 100 per cent Siam rice was, on the average, 41 cents a kati in January 1970 and was only 36 cents a kati in January this year. Because rice forms a large part of Our budget on foodstuffs, the fall in the price of rice should more than outweigh the rise in the price of sugar and some other items like bread. As Members know, foodstuffs are also subject to seasonal fluctuations, especially items like fish and fresh vegetables. The statistics seem to indicate that there is always a rise in the price of foodstuffs at the beginning of the year but that the price will go back to normal towards the middle of the year. This may be because of festive seasons, like the Chinese New Year and Han Raya, which normally occur at the beginning of the year. On housing, the statistics collected by the Statistics Department show an increase of 1.4 points in 1970 over 1969. This increase is attributed to increases in the Public Utilities Board charges and the tax on P.U.B, bills. There is, of course, a very sharp rise in rentals for middle-class property. But this should not affect the working class who are well looked after by the Housing and Development Board. In the clothing group, the increase is really very slight and has occurred in the sectors of clothing material and made-up garments. A large portion of these two items is still imported and as long as the sophisticated consumers here still have a preference for imported materials and made-up garments over the locally-manufactured ones, then they must be ready to pay more for them in view of the customs duty imposed on them. It is hoped that if we continue to run an efficient port and the ancillary services and maintain a highly competitive market with the absence of monopolies, we will continue to buy the best goods at the cheapest possible price from any part of the world and thus keep to the very minimum any possible increase in the cost of living. So far, we have been able, in spite of our open economy, and in spite of the rising trend in world prices, to keep our cost of living relatively stable. Our Consumer Price Index showed that there was only a 0.4 point increase in 1970 over 1969. For comparative purposes, I have handed out a table* containing a cost-of-living index compiled by the United Nations on eight countries. It may be interesting for Members to note that the cost of living in Singapore has risen only 8.5 points in seven years, from 100 points in 1963, as the base year, to 108.5 in July 1970. And of the eight countries shown, Singapore has the lowest rate of increase. The next lowest increase, for Australia, is 23.5 points. (*See Appendix, cols. 971-2.) COST OF LIVING INDEX (Cols 971 - 972)

Mr Speaker, Sir, can the Minister of State inform this House what steps did his Ministry take when the Bakers' Association recently decided to increase the price of bread when the price of the basic commodity for bread, that is, flour, did not go up?

I can inform the Member that the Trade Division of the Ministry of Finance had a discussion with the Association of Bakers, and from information supplied to the Trade Division. It was shown that there had been a rise in the price of flour in the sense that the rebate for wholesalers was withdrawn with effect from the beginning of this month.

Mr Speaker. Sir, the Minister of State for Finance has mentioned the increase in the cost of living in Australia, Canada, France, Hong Kong and some other places. However, can he tell us how much is the increase in the salaries in those countries?

I have no idea about that, Sir. Perhaps the Member could quote some statistics on this point and then we could have a comparison. But if the Member wants statistics, I am prepared to collect them and send them to him.

Mr Speaker, Sir, that is not the question. When the Minister of State received the information from these foreign countries, he would have received information on the increase of salaries at the same time.

Is this a supplementary question?

Mr Speaker, Sir, we were told by the Minister of State for Finance that the Bakers' Association had discussions with his Ministry and, as a result, approval was granted for the increase in the price of bread. It seems that the approval was very easily given. I hope if the N.T.U.C, or the unions approach the Ministry of Finance for a high cost-of-living allowance, perhaps that can be granted as well.

Is that your supplementary question, Mr Seah? Can the Minister answer?

No approval was given. Sir.

Mr Speaker, Sir, two supplementary questions. First, is the Minister of State aware that the imposition of customs duties, in addition to raising the prices of imported goods, also leads to rises in the prices of domestically produced goods even though they may not rise to the same extent? Secondly, has the Minister forgotten the debate we had in the last two or three days on the question of the use of weights in the construction of the cost-of-living index?

What the Member for Whampoa said - that if we put a tax on imported goods, the prices of locally-manufactured goods could also rise - that could be true, yes. But with locally-made goods, we are in a better position to control the price level, whereas with imported goods we are not so able. On the second question, the Minister for Finance, in replying to Members on the budget debate, did say that he would consider a survey and see whether the weighting for the present price index should be adjusted.

Sir, is the Minister of State for Finance aware that he has not really answered both my questions?

Sir, I think I have answered adequately.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister of State has mentioned that where locally-produced goods are concerned, his Ministry is able to control prices. Can he give me one instance where his Ministry is able to control the price of any commodity at all in Singapore?

Sir, the prices of sugar and petroleum are controlled, for example. Perhaps the Member can tell me what are the goods for which there has been an unwarranted rise in their prices. An hon. Member: Bread!

Order read for resumed consideration in Committee of Supply [2nd Allotted Day]. Resumption of debate on Question (18th March, 1971), "That the sum to be allocated for Head 0705 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001." - [Mr Teong Eng Siong].

2.47 p.m. Head 0705 (contd.) -.

We were on the first amendment to Head 0705 - Postal Services - when the Committee rose last night. The Question is, "That the sum to be allocated for Head 0705 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001." The Minister for Communications was about to reply to the points raised by Members under this subhead when the debate was interrupted. Mr Yong.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Members for Sembawang, Anson and Telok Blangah have raised questions pertaining to mail delivery and staffing problems in our Postal Department. The Member for Anson spoke about postmen being overloaded with work, insufficiency of bicycles and motorcycles, and the prolonged acting appointment of the Chief Inspector of Postmen. The Member for Telok Blangah was worried about the high turnover of postal staff and the closed service in the Postal Department. At a previous session of Parliament, Members will recall that the Member for Anson raised similar complaints and, in fact, went so far as to suggest that the Minister should make surprise visits to the Postal Department. It is not usual for a Minister to accept such an invitation, because it is very demoralising to the staff for the Minister to make surprise checks. It is normal courtesy for the Minister to advise the head of the department concerned that he will be at such and such an office at a certain time and to be aware of his presence. But knowing full well that the Member is a most respected retired member of the Postal Department staff, that he has the welfare of the Postal Department staff at heart and felt very strongly that certain things have got to be done, I accepted therefore his kind invitation to do something. But I must confess today in this House that I was not able to follow up that suggestion, although I accepted it, because of a certain change in circumstances. In July last year, the former Postmaster-General submitted his application for retirement. He proceeded on leave prior to retirement in October last year and he was succeeded by the present acting Postmaster-General at a time when the latter was still on secondment as the Controller of Immigration in the Ministry of Home Affairs. In view of this change in the incumbent for the top post in the Postal Department, it would not be prudent for me to have conducted surprise visits to the Postal Department, and also when the new acting Postmaster-General had still to carry on as Controller of Immigration for two solid months before he could officially take full charge of the Postal Department in December last year. However, even before the former Postmaster-General went on leave prior to retirement, my Ministry had decided officially to request the National Productivity Centre to undertake a study of the mail system. The request was made in August last year but, unfortunately, the National Productivity Centre was already heavily committed to other duties and they could only begin a preliminary study in February this year. Members of this House may be interested in a brief summary of the findings and recommendations of this preliminary study. I happen to have a copy of the preliminary study in my hands. The N. P. C. team found that the structure of the existing organisation should be fully examined and streamlined, and that the mail delivery system should be examined in view of mechanisation in place of the present manual system, and many other improvements. Other procedures should also be examined and streamlined. Jobs should be evaluated to eliminate inequalities. The practice and quality of communication and co-ordination are inadequate to the present scale of Postal Department's operations and should be improved. Finally, the training facilities were also considered inadequate for a department as large as our Postal Department. The preliminary report next recommended that there should be a full study and that the areas that should be covered are as follows: management and organisation structure, procedures, mail handling, parcel branch, inventory control, filing systems and record retention, sub-post offices, training school, transportation, job evaluation, regional centres and other development plans. This full study is expected to take a year and will be conducted in stages with a report being submitted at the end of each stage for approval and implementation. At the end of the whole study, a master report will be submitted. The National Productivity Centre has indicated that they would charge a retaining fee of $5,000 a month. My Ministry has been in touch with the Ministry of Finance for the necessary financial provision to be made. When it is approved, it is our intention to ask the N. P. C, to commence the study on the 1st of April this year. Meanwhile, the N. P. C, is already conducting a three-week course on method study, layout and material handling, and office management and methods for 21 senior and middle management officers of the Postal Department. The course began on the 8th of this month, which is 10 days ago. A few of the officers who attended this course will be attached to the N. P. C, study team as counterpart staff. Earlier, two senior postal officers were nominated to attend an appreciation course on industrial engineering organised by the N. P. C. Members of this House will note that the terms of reference of the N. P. C, study are very comprehensive and cover both immediate as well as long-term requirements. I would be less than candid if I were to deny that the study is long overdue. For it is true that the Postal Department has unfortunately remained basically unchanged for many decades. I can assure Members that the forthcoming N. P. C, study is intended to remedy the situation. The Members for Sembawang, Anson and Telok Blangah will therefore note that we are fully aware of the problems and have not been idle about these matters. In fact, the new Postmaster-General has taken immediate action to correct certain inadequacies wherever feasible. However, to return to the specific complaints raised by Members of Parliament concerning late delivery and mis-delivery of mail, these things can happen in any postal service. The volume of mail traffic has increased greatly over the years. In 1969, 219 million items of mail were handled by the department and this has increased to 239 million items last year. Although late deliveries and mis-deliveries do happen from time to time, this, of course, is not to be taken as an excuse. Mail delivery, as the Member for Anson is aware, is a complex process. It is not just taking it from here and handing it over to the other person. Where possible, the Postmaster-General has taken action to remove any shortcomings with available resources. However, this is one area which the N. P. C, will look into, and I have no doubt that the system will be considerably improved in the near future. The Member for Anson complained that the postmen have been overloaded with work and that there are not enough bicycles and motor-cycles for speedy mail delivery. Furthermore, these machines frequently break down and take a long time to repair. With regard to the complaint about bicycles and motor-cycles, the department had 328 bicycles at the close of 1970. Since then 39 new bicycles have been purchased, 19 for replacement. For the next financial year, a further 56 new bicycles will be purchased. 42 of which will be for replacement. Minor repairs are now undertaken at nearby bicycle repair shops instead of being sent as hitherto to the post office garage. Every little small item of repair had previously to be referred to the post office garage instead of being attended to immediately at the nearest bicycle repair shop. This ensures a quicker return to service. 3.00 p.m. Unfortunately, locally-made bicycles have been found to be of very poor quality and there were frequent breakdowns. That is why even the factory has closed down! Better quality bicycles are now being purchased. I notice that my colleague the Minister for Home Affairs is having a good time over this subject. He probably has the same problem - too much dependence on poor locally-produced products. As for motor-cycles, the department has 10 machines, one bought in October 1970, for the Punggol/Tampines area. For the coming year, eight new motor-cycles will be purchased, five for replacement and three for new beats for the General Post Office Express Delivery, Taman Jurong and Bukit Panjang. I wish to assure Members of the House that a review is being undertaken by the Postmaster-General with the object of increasing motorisation for speedier mail delivery. With reference to the query of the Member for Telok Blangah that there are 29 postmen vacancies as at 15th March this year, action is in hand to fill them. As regards the high turnover of staff, may I provide some statistics that the position is not as alarming as put by the Member for Telok Blangah? The number of postmen who resigned not for last year but over a period of years, was: for 1967 - three, for 1968 10, 1969 six, and 1970 - 20. Most of those who resigned in 1970 had less than a year's service and they left for alternative employment elsewhere. Finally, Members of the House may recall that legislation was enacted on the first of this month requiring the installation of letter boxes in high-rise buildings. This major step will make for more efficient delivery of mails. There are a few other questions raised by the Member for Anson upon which I would like to touch. He mentioned that the post of Chief Inspector of Postmen has been vacant and left unfilled, and the present incumbent has been acting one year after another. This question of filling the post is an establishment matter and the procedure rests with the Public Service Commission. If it is found by the Public Service Commission that there is no suitable candidate, then there is no confirmation of the appointment. This is as far as I can go. I do not decide who should be the Chief Inspector of Postmen. The creation of more Postal Higher Clerical Officer posts to enhance promotion prospects for Postal Clerical Assistants is also an establishment matter. The Member for Telok Blangah has supplied information to the effect that he understands that 39 officers from the Post Office Savings Bank, which will be converted into a corporation soon, will be reverted to the postal services. He wants me to confirm whether this is true or false. I am afraid I am not aware of this information. I do not know where he got his grapevine information from, but even then this would be an establishment matter. Would postal clerks be allowed to transfer to other departments? Since this is a closed service, again it is an establishment matter. My colleague the Minister for Finance will be in a position to answer this at a later stage. Can senior civil servants from other departments be transferred to the Postal Department? If the department is a closed service, I cannot see how senior officers from other Ministries could be transferred to the Postal Department. Can it be this -this is an assumption - perhaps the new Postmaster-General is assumed to be someone who was not in the Postal Department, but from the Immigration Department being transferred to the Postal Department? This new acting Postmaster-General has always been a Postal Department man, but a request was made for him to be transferred out to be the Controller of Immigration at a time when it was difficult to find a suitable officer to head this important and strategic post. I must say that the senior officers in the Postal Department, including the Ministry of Communications, were strongly opposed to his transfer out. I had to over-ride official objection and say, "We must allow our senior official in the Postal Department to be given this opportunity to head the Immigration Department." I think it reflected great credit on the Postal Department that an officer in that department was found worthy to head the Immigration Department in another Ministry, and he had served at least one full year in the Immigration Department. It was only when the substantive holder of the post of Postmaster-General decided that he wanted to retire that we had to recall this particular officer to look after the Postal Department. I hope, Sir, that I have answered the questions of the Members to their satisfaction.

Mr Speaker, Sir, there are one or two issues raised by the Minister to which I would like to make further reference. The first is the question of the 39 officers who will be transferred from the Post Office Savings Bank back to the Post Office when the Post Office Savings Bank becomes a corporation. This information is gathered from the Memorandum on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure of Singapore on page 28. On the question of the Post Office Savings Bank being a closed department, the point I raised was, is there an absolute necessity to keep the Postal Department a closed department? The Minister has mentioned just now that a senior official in the Postal Department was found suitable to head the Immigration Department and so a request was made for him to be transferred there. A similar occasion may arise where junior officers in the Postal Department would like to be transferred to other departments. If such requests are made, can the Postal Department entertain them? Could the Postal Clerical Officers and Postal Clerical Assistants be transferred out from the Postal Department, and the General Clerical Officers go to the Postal Department, making it an open department instead of a closed one?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am grateful to the Member for Telok Blangah for pointing out where he got the mysterious 39 officers. It is true that the information is found in the Memorandum on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure of Singapore. Had he quoted it, it would have been easier to follow his line of thinking. This refers to temporary staff because the Postal Savings Bank is now part of the Postal Department. If and when the Savings Bank becomes a corporation, those temporary staff who have been employed to cope with the increased number of accounts in the Post Office Savings Bank will then become part of the staff of the corporation, but later on they will be given the opportunity to opt either to remain with the Savings Bank as a statutory organisation or revert to the Postal Department. This is just like in accounts where you have a debit and a credit entry. It is only a book entry. As to whether the staff in the Postal Department may be given the opportunity to get out of a closed service, this is a very big issue and I do not think the Member really expects me to give him an answer. It should really be the privilege of the Minister for Finance, who is in charge of the Establishment and the Treasury, to give an answer. May I just say that I will send the Member's query across to my colleague.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I must thank the Minister for his reply to my query regarding the Postal Department. He has said that the Postmaster-General is newly promoted. There are many Controllers and Assistant Controllers of Posts. What have they been doing in the past? Every Controller of Posts knows the work of his branch. They should make recommendations on this matter. The Minister has also explained to the House about the National Productivity Centre. What I want to ask him is whether the Centre is theoretical or practical. I want to know whether this Centre will go through every loophole and find where the trouble comes from. If we know where the trouble comes from probably the report will be correct. I was working in the Postal Department when one day the Postmaster-General from Kuala Lumpur wanted to come and inspect the work of our Postal Department. What did the department do? They brought manpower to the godown by truck. The van was put inside the godown. He asked an assistant postman to carry his bag and put it inside. "Very nice, there is no hot sun. It is very warm and very slow. You can go." That was how he was to inform the higher authority. The Minister says that it is not his duty and he cannot interfere with the administration of the department. I quite understand what he means, but he must get some information from the department which is under his control. I understand the functions of the Postal Department because I worked there for the last 34 years. The senior officers are always pressing the junior officers. They always sit peacefully in the office, putting on records and listening to the music. The worst hit are the men who go out. May I ask the Minister to let one Assistant Controller follow a delivery postman on one of his bicycle rounds and see his difficulties? The Postman's job is a manual one. He must look after his bicycle, the letters, parcels and registered articles. All this makes his job a heavy responsibility. Further, if it is raining, he must make sure that his bag - 3.15 p.m.

Is not run over by a motorcar!

-- is not wet. But he cannot stop his delivery. He must carry on in the rain - the mail must be delivered! It is most probable that the Minister is aware of all these difficulties, and as I do not wish to bring this matter up again and again, all I want to ask is this: can the Minister look into the postmen's difficulties in a more practical way, instead of being only theoretical about it?

Mr Speaker, Sir, since we have decided to ask the National Productivity Centre to proceed with this one-year study, I shall convey to it the advice tendered by the Member for Anson - that what is needed is practical advice and not theoretical advice.

(In Mandarin): Sir, in view of the detailed explanation given by the Minister, I beg to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy -

Mr Govindaswamy, Amendment (2) .

I am not moving, Sir.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0705 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2003. Mr Speaker, Sir, this $100 vote for "Awards for Staff Suggestions" is an extremely interesting item, one which I do not seem to have come across elsewhere in the Ordinary Estimates. Can the Minister tell the House how this scheme is administered, how and what are the suggestions made, and from whom do they come? And if the suggestions are considered valuable, can the Minister tell us to what extent they are implemented? Does he not think that it will be a good idea to encourage this scheme further, or am I right in saying that the reduction of the vote from $200 last year to $100 this year is the result of a lack of these suggestions?

Sir, in reply to the Member for Katong, the procedure governing the awards for staff suggestions in the Postal Services Department is as follows. An officer will describe his suggestion for improvement on a form which is sent to the Branch Head for evaluation. This is then further assessed by the Controller of Posts, and finally passed on to the Postmaster-General who then makes the decision. Last year a total of $55 was spent on awards ranging from $5 to $15 in value. They were paid for six suggestions which dealt mainly with improvements to Postal and Savings Bank documents and forms. The cut in provision from $200 to $100 is due to the very sharp eyes of the Treasury officials who saw that since only $55 was paid out last year, therefore, the provision for 1971-72 could be brought down to $100, instead of keeping it at $200.

Sir, may I thank the Minister, and I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0705 be reduced by $10 in respect of item (2) of subhead 2011. This subhead deals with commission to stamp vendors. I merely wish to seek information on the rate of commission paid, and what encouragement is being given to get more vendors to come into the scheme. If there are more such vendors, perhaps it will enable people to get their stamps just round the corner, so to speak, if they wish to get them in a hurry.

Sir, there are two types of licensed stamp vendors. One type operates in remote areas where facilities for the purchase of stamps are not readily available. They are paid a commission of two per cent of the stamp value, subject to a maximum commission of $5 in any one month. The other type undertakes the sale of stamps in their premises as an added service or attraction to their customers. No commission is paid to this type of licensee. There are at present 57 licensed stamp vendors in operation.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker. Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0705 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2017. I would like to take the opportunity under this amendment to suggest to the Minister concerned a change of uniform of the postmen. The present uniform was inherited from colonial times and is still in use today. The material is very thick and unsuitable for the tropical climate of Singapore. Sir, it is my view that the present uniform is obsolete and not in keeping with modern Singapore. Over the past few years, Sir, several Government departments have changed the uniforms of their staff. For example, the Police, Immigration, and Customs Departments have already adopted new and modern uniforms for their staff, but not the Postal Services Department. The postmen are still wearing the same old kind of uniform which has been in use for the past few decades. Therefore, I suggest that the Minister should give consideration to changing the uniform of our postal workers. If the new uniform is of better material, it will heighten their morale and efficiency. I wonder if the Minister will accept this proposal. Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am grateful to the Member for Mountbatten for highlighting this point of uniforms for the Postal Department and I can say that the department has anticipated his query. There is, in fact, a review now being made to ascertain what improvements can be made to the design and material of the uniforms for the Postal Department.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I thank the Minister for his reply, and I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendments stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy -

Amendments (6) and (7) , Mr P. Govindaswamy. He is not here. The sum of $22,024,360 for Head 0705 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0706 -

Mr Speaker. Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0706 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*. (* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr N. Govindasamy.) Sir, I note that the Anti-Pollution Unit has been set up to combat air pollution and noise pollution. I wish to bring to the attention of the House one offender, the Telecommunications Department. The old Cable and Wireless building at Robinson Road has four flimsy chimneys made of zinc, a material used for gutters. For two or three days a week, these chimneys belch out smoke. This has been going on regularly, and there are no signs that this will stop. Along with the smoke from these chimneys, this building also makes a loud rumbling noise which pervades the whole area. This noise goes on as long as smoke is puffing out of the chimneys. This is noise pollution and air pollution in every sense of the word. The people working in the vicinity have already accepted the noise made by the piling machines at building sites in this area as a price of development and progress. But the smoke and noise coming from the Telecoms building are not a temporary nuisance. This is a permanent feature of the building, and is unwelcome to the occupants of the Telecoms building as well as those in all adjoining buildings. I shall be grateful if the Minister will look into the source of the noise and smoke pollution, especially since his Ministry is conducting campaigns to persuade taxi and bus owners, and factories and sawmills to eliminate smoke and noise.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Expenditure Estimates for Telecommunications, appearing in the Memorandum on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure of Singapore, state: `The increase for P.E. [Personal Emoluments] is $781,000. Six additional posts of Engineer .Thirteen operational and engineering Division II posts.At the junior level, 52 new posts of Technician are created to cope with the growth of telecommunications particularly in telex and landshore radio communications. Seventy-eight additional posts of Clerical Officer and Clerical Assistant are provided, again to cope with expansion.' The Memorandum goes on to stress the shortage of staff built up over the years and the increase in workload. A total of 67 additional posts were provided for in the 1970-71 Estimates, but in spite of this, we have a very serious shortage of staff in the Telecommunications Department. The employees in the operational side of the department work day in and day out without obtaining any time off for rest days and public holidays. The provision of rest days is to grant respite to a worker so that he could be given the opportunity for recreation. If the employees are not given their weekly day off as a rest day for a long period, then, however responsible the union or the employee may be, it is bound to lead to a deterioration of employer-employee relationship, and a demoralisation of the employee concerned. 3.30 p.m. The responsible workers of Telecommunications understand the plight of the department in not being able to give them time off for rest days because of the present staff shortage. Although they understand the difficulty of the department, how long can they go on without doing anything about it? I understand that the International Telegraph Section of the Telecommunications Department alone owes the staff a total of 30,000 hours for working on rest days and public holidays from June 1969 to January 1971. The department owes the messengers 11,500 hours, clerical assistants 5,600 hours, and counter clerks 1,500 hours. Messengers have been put on duty without a single day of rest for several weeks at a stretch. They have worked for half a year without any rest days or public holidays. Sir, what is the problem of recruiting sufficient messengers, clerical assistants and counter clerks to cope with the shortage? These are not highly skilled personnel. Why have a sufficient number of messengers, clerks and counter clerks not been recruited? The employees in the department have shown great patience and understanding and have been hoping that steps will be taken to remedy this state of affairs. Will the department be able to meet this shortage this year? I doubt it. Although about 100 more clerks and clerical assistants are to be recruited, some of these will be replacing staff who will be retiring this year. From the Estimates, I notice that no additional messengers are to be recruited. How are the messengers going to collect their debt? Sir, can the Minister assure me that the Telecommunications Department will repay the debt it owes its employees, in the form of holidays earned, if not for the past two years, then at least this year? Sir, if time off cannot be granted within a reasonable period, the workers must be financially compensated, as is being done in the non-essential services. I understand the limitations placed on the department by sections 37 (4) and 41(4) of the Employment Act. Clearly, in the past two years, the department has encountered difficulties in justifiably enforcing these two sections of the Employment Act by granting days off in substitution for rest days and public holidays. Having encountered difficulties, it is up to the Minister to persuade his Cabinet colleagues to amend the two sections of the Act instead of continuing to perpetuate an injustice.

Mr Speaker, Sir, may I first reply to the remarks made by the Member for Telok Blangah before I reply to the Member for Potong Pasir. I appreciate his concern over the staffing position in the Telecommunications Department. May I first explain why there was such an unfortunate accumulation of time off last year? Firstly, the Department has experienced a vacancy position of about nine per cent during the year. This was at a time when the work of the Telecommunications Department was expanding at an unusually high rate. It is all right if there has been no increased tempo in business. But the activity was as high as 22 per cent in terms of the overall gross revenue income. This is a fair yardstick to measure the progress of a department. The growth in international traffic has in fact been spectacular. For example, the international telephone traffic increased by 38 per cent. The medium-range maritime telephone service, which includes the offshore oil industry requirements, went up by 64 per cent, and the international telex traffic increased by 66 per cent. This is a galloping rate of development. It is most unusual. In order to satisfy public demand to the best of its ability and with certain reasonably acceptable standards, the department had no alternative but to cover all vacant positions through overtime from the existing staff. With the provision in the current Estimates before the House and the steps that have already been taken to increase the staff by recruitment, there are good expectations that during the coming year we should have adequate staff. I did not use the word "shall"; I said "should". I am always hopeful, but things may not happen as we wish. The staff will cover not only all normal requirements but also the expected high growth rate. This will also help to wipe out the accumulation of time off mentioned by the Member for Telok Blangah. Firstly, the provision for 1,688 posts in this year's vote represents an increase of 159 posts or ten per cent over that authorised for the current year. Secondly, 104 out of these 159 posts are in respect of the grade affected by the accumulation in time off, which represents approximately 42,000 man-hours. The total overtime hours worked per month is over 1l,000 and the net average accumulation of time off per month is around 1,800 hours. The additional complement of staff will enable present overtime duties to be well covered and enable time off to be granted while leaving a sufficient margin for anticipated traffic growth over the year. Thirdly, I am very pleased to say that for the first time the department is well ahead on recruitment. The Public Service Commission has just completed an exercise to recruit over 250 Telecommunications clerical assistants and technicians. This will wipe out the present vacancy position as well as fill the 159 new posts now coming up for approval before the House. The department should be able to have a full complement of staff by May this year. A crash training programme is being arranged which will enable the new staff to be trained and put into operating position some time in August. It is anticipated that the long overdue time off can be granted thereafter. Fourthly, it is likely that the 24 vacancies in the vote for telegraph messengers will be filled by June, by which period time off for messengers can be granted thereafter. Fifthly, should our present staffing position still prove to be inadequate, it may well happen that the rate of development will again double what it was last year. We cannot say. It depends on the requirements needed by the commercial sector. But should our staffing position again prove to be inadequate despite all these efforts to keep pace with the terrific demand for our services, here again I am pleased to disclose that there is an understanding with the Ministry of Finance that we may make our applications and that they will be favourably considered. I cannot ask better than that. It is almost like a blank cheque where you just fill in your requirements. Of course, this is by means of the establishment warrant procedure. This was done in August last year when we were able to get approval for an additional 68 posts. Although the Member for Telok Blangah has expressed doubts that things will improve next year, I can assure him that his doubts can, like the mist in the hills, disappear as the sun rises high up in the sky. Of course, I would like to say that I want to express my thanks and gratitude to the staff of the Telecommunications Department for their loyalty and dedicated service under such trying conditions. If Singapore is to have a rugged society, I think the staff of the Telecommunications Department have proved that they are very rugged to be able to withstand all that pressure and stress at the cost of very heavy time off accumulation. May I now turn to the Member for Potong Pasir? He has mentioned that there is smoke and noise pollution coming from the Telecommunications Department. At the rate that they are trying to provide a service to the public, can you blame them? The rate of development is not five per cent, which we normally see in advanced countries which are very prosperous, it is an overall 22 per cent, which is four times higher than that of other advanced countries. Tens of thousands of hours of time off are being accumulated and they are still hanging on to their jobs to make Singapore the telecommunications centre of South-east Asia. In any case, a complaint was received by our Ministry in 1970. I think it was due to a number of factors. We have diesel generators. The head of the Anti-Pollution Unit in the Prime Minister's Office has replied to the complainant who is closely associated with the Member for Potong Pasir. In this reply, they have said that investigations have been made and it has been ascertained that the smoke and noise are due to the emergency stand-by diesel generators which are being test-run weekly. This means that in case of a general breakdown, this generator will carry on in the meantime. To avoid noise nuisance, the Director of Telecommunications has agreed to suspend for the time being the test-run of these engines on week days and is trying to reschedule the test runs on Sundays. It looks as if the Member for Potong Pasir is working overtime on Saturdays and Sundays when the Telecommunications Department are test-running and, therefore, causing the noise pollution. Further, the Senior Mechanical Engineer, Public Works Department, is taking action to abate the smoke nuisance and to dampen the noise from the engines. So every effort is being made. But should all these efforts be in vain, it may well be that the Member for Potong Pasir will be helping me to persuade the Ministry of Finance to give us modern diesel engines that will be noiseless and pollution free, for which I will then be most grateful to him for having lodged this complaint in this House. 3.45 p.m.

Sir, I wish to inform the Minister that the department has not kept its promise. They are operating this generator even on week days and during office hours occasionally. However, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $19,768,510 for Head 0706 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0707 -

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0707 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*. (* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Conceicao.) Sir, under the present reorganisation of our motor transport service, the Registry of Vehicles will be expanding its activities. We can imagine the amount of work that has to be done. From the budget estimates, we know that the R.O.V, will be setting up an Enforcement Unit to be manned by 80 police personnel. In addition, the existing Investigation Unit will be strengthened by 11 additional posts of Investigating Officers. Sir, I am afraid that the Registry of Vehicles at Middle Road will be overcrowded. No wonder our Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Communications has to make way and has his office moved to City Hall. In order to carry out its work efficiently, it is important that the Government expands the Registry of Vehicles or builds a new building at another site. In the Development Estimates for 1971-72, there is provision for building a Motor Vehicle Inspection Centre, but I cannot find any provision therein for the construction of a new building for the Registry of Vehicles. In my view, the Registry should improve its working efficiency especially following the reorganisation of our motor transport service. Mr Speaker. Sir, I would like the Minister to consider another suggestion. This is in reference to the memorandum I sent him on the 8th of March with regard to season tickets for bus commuters. This scheme, if accepted by the bus companies, will be appreciated by bus commuters as in the long run, it is more economical. Furthermore, the work-load of the bus conductors will be reduced, and their efficiency will be increased. This is the first advantage. The second advantage of having season tickets is that bus commuters will not throw tickets about indiscriminately. The third advantage is that it is more economical especially for school children. They can save a considerable sum of money if they buy season tickets. The fourth advantage is that bus conductors will have more time to move around to check and collect fares from other passengers and therefore increase the revenue. I hope the Minister concerned will reply to my proposals.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to take this opportunity briefly to express my dismay over the poor standard of driving and attention to road courtesy of bus drivers. It is quite an ordinary event to watch bus drivers speeding along their routes, and timid drivers like myself feel somewhat despondent when they see the juggernauts that bus drivers drive exceeding the speed limit. Another aspect besides speeding is the way the bus drivers frequently do not attend to parking their buses by the bays when they come to bus stops. There have been many occasions when I have seen buses parked at a distance of one lane away from the kerb to allow passengers to alight. An hon. Member: Have a campaign for this! [Interruption]

We will come to that later on. These are just incidental references to the kind of offences that one sees bus drivers committing. Before I come to the end of this address. May I mention another offence, and that is inconsiderate driving - bus drivers moving out of their stops as soon as they stick their hands out, or give signals and move without paying any attention to traffic coming from behind. I hope that the Ministry of Communications will start an education campaign so that bus drivers may be able to improve their standard of driving and pay attention to these matters. My colleague, the Member for Mount-batten, has referred to the reform of the transport service and I hope that that will result in a reform of bus drivers too.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in reply to the Member for Mount-batten, I wish to assure him that with the reorganisation of our motor transport service, there will also be expansion of the administrative set-up of the Registrar of Vehicles, both in staff and in the building facilities. Although the Member says that he does not see anything in the Development Estimates, which will be discussed at a subsequent session of Parliament, I would like to assure him that it is already in this year's estimates. Tenders have already been awarded for the sum of $481,150 for the construction of the Motor Vehicle Inspection Centre at Sin Ming Road, off Upper Thomson Road, and we expect it to be completed within five months. Once the Inspection Centre site has been established, it is our intention to move out from Middle Road to Sin Ming Road because the Urban Renewal Department is keeping a very watchful eye on where we are at present, because it is a very valuable site. Negotiations are going on to decide who is to be responsible for the building of the office at Sin Ming Road, etc. The Member for Mountbatten also referred to a letter which he kindly addressed to me on the subject of the possibility of introducing season tickets for our bus commuters. What he has listed as the advantages of season tickets is accepted by us. We think it is a very good idea and this matter will be tabled for consideration by the bus companies and the new Bus Services Licensing Authority which will have its first meeting on the 26th instant. We will have this on the agenda for consideration. Coming to the remarks made by the Member for Katong, he is not the only one to be dismayed over the poor standard of driving and lack of courtesy by bus drivers. It is our hope that after the massive reorganisation of bus routes has taken place next month and when there is an adequate number of buses on the roads to meet the needs of the bus commuting public, we will proceed to educate the drivers to be more courteous on the road. At the moment, we do have a Public Service Vehicle Training Centre at Queenstown where the question of courtesy on the road, first aid, etc, instructions are being given to new bus drivers before they can get their vocational driving licences. But, of course, there is this hard core of drivers now in service who need some education. As everybody who is involved in education knows, we do not get successes overnight. We have to be a bit patient. We have to talk, persuade and to instruct over a period of time before old habits disappear and new habits are cultivated. I do hope that the Member for Katong, being an educationist of high calibre in the University of Singapore, can appreciate this situation. Otherwise, there would not be an Adult Education Department in the University of Singapore of which the Member is in charge. An hon. Member: And adviser to the National Safety First Council!

Yes. And he has so much work to do in the National Safety First Council, etc. You can see the amount of work that he has got to put in to try to teach some old dogs new tricks.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I think the Minister has overlooked my suggestion that the Registry of Vehicles at Middle Road should be reconstructed or expanded. I know that there is a provision in the estimates for a new Testing Centre and for the Vehicle Inspection Centre at Sin Ming Road. My suggestion is that the building at Middle Road should be expanded or a new administrative block should be constructed.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I thought I had answered that point when I said that we shall be moving out from Middle Road to the Sin Ming site off Upper Thomson Road. For a start, we will begin with the Vehicle Inspection Centre. Later on, the administrative staff will also move out once we have decided that we can get extra money to build the administrative building which is under discussion at the moment. So I am in no position to say, "Yes, we have got the money to move out." We are thinking of moving out.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I thank the Minister for his reply and I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $1,964,520 for Head 0707 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 4.00 p.m. Head 0801 -

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 he reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*. (* The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs. Sia Khoon Seong and Ho Kah Leong). Last year, the estimates for Education were $174 million. This year the estimates have been increased to $191 million. This represents the second largest item in our total expenditure. From this we can see that the Government has undoubtedly paid a great deal of attention to the development of our education. There is no doubt that the educational system is vital to our nation building. Whether a country is strong or weak depends on how strong the educational system in the country is. Education will train people in a country to be well educated, highly cultivated, and to acquire knowledge, especially in this era of technology. We have to train a large number of people with specialised knowledge so that they can take up the task of nation building. Therefore we can see that the task of the Ministry of Education is indeed very heavy. The Ministry of Education in its implementation of policies will have to be very cautious. The compilation of the syllabuses will have to be very sound and comprehensive. The contents of the textbooks must be realistic and tailored especially to the needs of a developing country. It is only in this way that we can have people well trained for their jobs so that we will not produce a large number of people who cannot apply what they have learnt. As a matter of principle, we are trying to implement a multilingual education. We emphasise the teaching of science and technology. This is very appropriate. However, in the implementation of policies, there have been some anomalies. This is because many principals and teachers are faced with a great number of difficulties. I would like to take this opportunity to ask the Minister for Education four oft- recurring questions. I hope that he will investigate and perhaps remedy them. The first point is about the changing of textbooks. We find that there has been some delay. Last year the Ministry of Education directed that all primary schools should use the textbooks published by the Educational Publications Bureau. They were the Primary One and Primary Three civic textbooks. Perhaps the Minister of State does not know the ones I am referring to. All the primary schools naturally followed the directive of the Ministry, but when the schools reopened this year for the first term, the textbooks published by the Educational Publications Bureau were not enough for all primary schools. Some primary schools could not use textbooks published by other companies. As a result, the teachers have had difficulties in teaching. Moreover, the pupils have had unnecessary difficulties in learning the lessons. I hope the Minister will investigate this matter. The second point is about the Mathematics textbooks in primary schools. A few years ago the Ministry of Education directed that all primary school textbooks in Mathematics should be in English. At that time we had a shortage of teachers. Now we find that the students cannot understand these textbooks. Therefore, the Ministry has decided to reverse its decision on the use of English Mathematics textbooks. The question now whether to use Chinese or English Mathematics textbooks in primary schools is up to the principal of the school concerned to decide. This has caused some surprise to the principals. I think this is not an appropriate thing to do. The Ministry is the highest authority for making decisions. There are many educational experts in the Ministry who can find ways and means of implementing these decisions. They must find a solution, practical and feasible, so that all schools can follow this decision. We should not adopt the practice of asking the principal to do as he sees fit. The third point is whether relief teachers can be considered for confirmation and absorption into the permanent establishment. We know that many relief teachers are fully qualified and some of them have had many years of experience in practical teaching. I think they are fully qualified to be absorbed into the permanent establishment. What is more, I understand that at the moment we are short of teachers. If so, why do we not consider giving these relief teachers normal and permanent status? The last point I would like to raise is how to use the revised syllabus for primary one and primary two pupils. According to the policy of the Ministry of Education, they are going to start in the second term of this year a revised syllabus for primary one and primary two. However, there has been no comprehensive plan on how to implement this. I understand that when some inspectors went to the schools they asked the principals and teachers when they could implement the new syllabus, and sometimes they asked whether they had already implemented the new syllabus. When the principals and teachers mentioned the difficulties, the inspectors did not know what to say. They merely said. "Whatever you can do, you do now. What you cannot do, you may do as you please." What will the Minister say about this?

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Education Minister on 16th March remarked in this House that he would hate to think that teachers in the education service are attracted only by the salary scales. I am sure that the Minister said this more in jest than in seriousness. In the context of our present situation, the question of monetary incentives should not be dismissed in such a lighthearted fashion by a mere statement of a pious platitude. There is nothing more or nothing less human in the teacher than in any individual in our society. Teachers, just as other individuals in our society, also have personal commitments and responsibilities to fulfil. They have families to raise, mouths to feed and homes to look after. All these require money. Why should the question of money become "unchaste" with teachers? As I said on 16th March, 1971, in this House, the teachers are beginning to wonder what is happening to the current negotiations between the Teachers' Unions and the Education Ministry. The then Education Minister invited the Teachers' Unions to negotiate on 1st September, 1970. The first meeting between the representatives of the Teachers' Unions and officials of the Education Ministry took place on 10th October, 1970. Today is the 19th March, 1971. The Teachers' Unions have yet to receive any response from the Education Ministry to the proposals they put up to them. The Education Minister informed this House on 16th March, 1971, that his Ministry had made its recommendations to the Ministry of Finance. I would like to serve notice on the Finance Minister, who is not present here, that I will take issue with him on the delay that his Ministry is causing in the teachers' negotiations when this House considers the estimates of his Ministry in the Committee of Supply. I wish to inform the Members in this House that the current negotiations between the Teachers' Unions and the Education Ministry do not deal only with salary matters. They also deal with a host of other problems such as the questions of teachers' quota in schools, the relationship between teachers and Ministry officials as well as other professional problems. Some of the problems arise because of the lack of communication and consultation between Ministry officials and teachers. I would therefore like to ask the Education Minister whether steps will be taken to ensure that his Ministry officials become more communicative and more amenable to the idea of consultation with teachers, particularly with the Teachers' Unions, on matters of professional interest and importance.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I share the sentiments of the Member for Moulmein. As the Minister for Education said on the 16th of March in this House, a good teacher does not take his salary too much into consideration. I agree with what he said, but we should not forget that teachers are also human beings. Today when the prices of so many goods are increasing, the meagre salaries of the teachers cannot catch up with such increases. Therefore, their salaries should be readjusted. Because of their poor working conditions, their morale is low. This is also the cause of some teachers leaving their posts. The Teachers' Unions in the various language streams submitted their representations to the Ministry of Education some five months ago. I hope the Minister can give an early reply. 4.15 p.m. Sir, the vote for Education is quite a considerable sum in our budget. Of course, the aim is to educate the 25 per cent of our population who are students to become useful citizens. In order to achieve effectively the purpose of education, we must have a correct and definite education policy. But our Education Ministry has been hesitant on many issues. Perhaps this is because they have too much confidence in the so-called "experts". I would like to advise the Minister that when he formulates his policy he should not just pay heed to the opinions of only a handful of experts, but also give regard to the opinions of those in the teaching profession, especially the teachers, because they are the implementers of education policies and, being closest to the students, they understand the needs of the students best. But in formulating its policies or before carrying out any major reforms, the Ministry has never consulted the teaching profession. It is only when the policies cannot be carried through that the Ministry gets in touch with the teachers to seek solutions. This attitude should be corrected. Sir, if we recognise the fact that teachers are communicators of knowledge and that they have the necessary professional qualifications, we must allow them to carry out their duties and he responsible for them only within the scope of their duties. We should not give them too heavy a work-load. They should be allowed time to carry on with their own studies. We should not give them chores, such as the collection of fees and filling up endless forms. We should give them reasonable working conditions and a proper scope of work. At the moment the allocation of the number of teachers to a classroom is based on a quota formula - for every primary class 1.1 teachers, for every secondary class 1.25 teachers, and for every Pre-University class 1 33 teachers. This quota is allocated according to the school time-table, and results in a heavy burden on the teachers. In addition to this, teachers have homework to correct and they are allotted various other duties, such as extra-curricular activities. All this increases their workload beyond the quota provided. Thus, many teachers have to be in school one or two days more per week for these extra-curricular activities. This is not in accordance with the time-table, and thus invalidates the quota system. Moreover, school principals allot teachers the responsibility for various other matters of which they have to take charge. From these numerous additional duties, it is clear that the teacher's workload has gone beyond the staff quota stipulated by the Ministry. This shift system also increases the work-load of other teachers, and it is not entered in the records of the Ministry of Education. Sir, I think the scope of work of the teachers should be properly defined and enumerated, and measures taken to reduce the workload of the teachers. During the last budget debate I suggested that we should not ask the teachers to complete the same particulars of the students in attendance register every year, and to match these with the certificates or other evidence which parents are required to produce. This wastes too much time and causes too much inconvenience to all concerned. Since there are 12,000 class teachers involved, each having to spend about six hours on this job, it will result in 3,000 working days in a year being wasted. One year has lapsed since my suggestion was made, and I would like to know what steps the Minister has taken to deal with this matter. I have only one last matter to bring up, and that is, the Government has at long last decided to extend medical benefits as from 1st September last year to the teachers and staff in the aided schools. But members of their families have not been included yet. I hope the Minister can extend these medical benefits to them soon.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I seek your permission to speak now, so that I need not speak on the next amendment* later. Sir, I am a serving teacher in a Chinese school. At the same time I am also the President of the Singapore Chinese School Teachers' Union. I have come into close contact with those in the teaching profession, and therefore it is my responsibility to take this opportunity to bring up their grievances before this House. * Amendment No. (2) , standing in the names of Messrs. P. Govindaswamy, Yeo Choo Kok, Ho Kah Leong and Tay Boon Too, Reas as follows: That the sum be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1005. Mr Speaker, Sir, firstly, I would like to raise a matter which has existed for more than a decade, and that is the age of retirement of teachers. I would like the Minister for Education to reconsider the question of standardising the age of retirement. Over the past decade there have been a lot of grievances among teachers in Government-aided schools, particularly those in Chinese schools, against the difference in the retiring age. Some teachers are retired at 60 years while others are retired at 55. Why should there he this difference? It is admitted that when a teacher reaches the age of 55 years, he can apply for an extension of service. But, in spite of this privilege, he will still harbour a grievance and a feeling of injustice, which is understandable. Editorials in the Chinese newspapers have given publicity to this matter and they have spoken for the Chinese school teachers since the early days of the implementation of this policy on retiring age. The Chinese School Teachers' Union has also spoken on it. In fact, the Executive Council of this union has repeatedly requested the Ministry of Education to reconsider this matter. In order to give equal treatment to all the language streams of teachers, the Ministry should standardise the age of retirement at 60, instead of leaving it at 55 and 60 years respectively. Over the past decade the Chinese School Teachers' Union has done its best to fight against this difference, but the Ministry has continued to allow this unreasonable practice to carry on. This is beyond my comprehension. As a matter of fact, the regulations and practice of education handed down from the past are not necessarily good or practical for all time. The Minister himself said, on the 16th of March, in this House in reply to a question raised by my colleague, that the salary structure of school principals and teachers is a very complex matter and should be simplified. I am in full agreement with him on this. But at the same time I would like to appeal to him to standardise the age of retirement of teachers at 60 years, because the present practice is a very unreasonable one and should be removed as early as possible. If it is allowed to carry on, it will create further discontent and will not benefit our country. Mr Speaker, Sir, the next topic I wish to raise is the matter of school holidays. Teachers during the school vacation rest, study, or go on a tour in order to enrich themselves mentally. But school principals do not have the good fortune of enjoying a vacation. They have to report for duty in school even during the school holidays, and this amounts to working throughout the whole year, and even throughout his school working life. Although school principals are allowed to apply for vacation leave, I would like to ask this question: why should it be necessary for them to apply at all? It is my view that the Ministry of Education should grant school principals a certain number of days for an annual holiday during the school vacation, so that they can have time to relax. I do not think this matter requires any legislation or has to go through any cumbersome procedure, nor does it entail any negotiations across the table. It is purely an administrative matter for the Minister for Education to decide. He can, in fact, even announce at any time what procedure is to be adopted in granting vacation leave to school principals. The third point I wish to raise is this. Our school teachers have a very crammed timetable, as the Member for Jurong has pointed out. They work very hard during school hours, and even outside school hours, such as engaging in extra-mural activities. Therefore, during the school holidays they do want to go somewhere for recreation, but there is no place in the school for them to carry out legitimate activities. Teachers are not allowed to go to certain places and there are other places which the teachers themselves ought not to go. There are moral instructions like the Ten Commandments of Moses in the Holy Bible which say that thou shalt not do this, and thou shalt not do that! Of course, all these rules are well intended. But it is too much to expect everyone to be a saint. This is attempting the impossible! No doubt education is a great enterprise and a responsibility for the teachers. At this time when civilisation has entered the space age, with progress and advancement constantly made in various fields, the teachers must also keep abreast of the times. They need time to learn new things in order to be able to teach their students. But, as I have pointed out earlier, there is a lack of places for teachers to go to, either to learn or to relax. When a person works in a very pleasant and favourable environment, he will be able to make a greater contribution to his work. Therefore, I would like to propose that the Government build a Teachers Activity Centre with facilities, such as a library, a sports stadium, a conference hall, a swimming pool, etc., for the teachers to enjoy during the school holidays or outside school hours. With these facilities the teachers will be able to indulge in physical exercise or study. This proposed centre will also provide a forum for discussion among teachers from the various language streams. Mr Speaker, Sir, while we are encouraging our students to meet one another and to live in a common environment, we should also provide similar facilities for the teachers to do so. This is particularly necessary because in the present circumstances teachers from the various language streams have hardly any opportunity to meet one another. This is a great disadvantage in our present education system.

Mr Tay, you have one minute more.

(In Mandarin): Thank you. Sir. If the Government builds an Activity Centre for teachers from all the various streams to meet, to get in touch with one another, to play games, or to discuss matters in common, I am sure they will be able to learn a lot more on how to teach. This is better than taking part in a seminar. I do not know if the Minister agrees with me on this point. But I would, however, like to point this out -that education is a great investment and the expenditure on it should only be next to defence. Therefore, it is worth while to consider building an Activity Centre for the teachers. Lastly - 4.30 p.m.

Order. Mr Tay, your time is up.

I have an amendment* here. I think I had better not move it. I will continue to speak under this subhead and give the Minister a chance to answer. * The same amendment standing in the name of Messrs. P. Govindaswamy, Yeo Choo Kok, Ho Kah Leong and Tay Boon Too reads as follows: (2) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1005.

The Member is therefore not speaking on the next amendment*?

No. If the Minister were to answer, he might miss some points. With so many Members speaking he can miss some points.

I am afraid they will be "guillotined"!

Mr Speaker, Sir, the education policy of the republic should be on a multilingual basis. I observed a statement in the Straits Times of 6th March, 1971, by Mr K. Govindasamy, a Colombo Plan expert, where he mentioned the need to improve the Tamil language education in Singapore. I am pleased that our Ministry has replied to his questions. What I am trying to bring up for our Minister's consideration is the Tamil language textbooks used in our schools. In spite of the fact that we have gained independence for five years, I wonder why the Tamil language text-books used here contain only facts regarding India and Malaysia. The teachings inside the texts have nothing to do with the history of our republic. Personally, I feel that the pupils in the Tamil stream must also be well informed of the happenings in their country. Though I have no objection to their learning the history of other countries. Mr Speaker, Sir, these are two Tamil books [indicating] printed by Manomoney Villas, Kuala Lumpur. Suppose we have such books printed here, can they cross the causeway? I wish to ask the Minister that question. Another point which I hope our Minister will consider is whether he can standardise the uniforms used by our school children. School badges alone may solve the identification problem, if there is any. I wish to bring forward this suggestion because I notice that whenever a pupil is transferred from one school to another, in most cases he or she has to get new uniforms. Personally, I feel this is a burden on the budget of some poor families. I would also mention that there are teachers who are asked to do jobs which are outside their teaching profession such as clerical duties and so forth. In doing so, I feel that the teachers cannot do their best in carrying out their teaching profession, as their minds are filled with problems to solve. This in turn will result in a poor output of the students. I wish to ask the following: (1) What has the Ministry done to ensure that integration in Government schools is taking place true to the letter of the word? Does the Minister realize that integration is not being carried out in many schools and that quite often principals of integrated schools themselves are not interested in integration? (2) What does the Ministry of Education intend to do to ease the load of extra-curricular activities particularly on the Secondary I and II pupils? These pupils have to attend workshop practice sessions, domestic science classes, sports activities, uniformed group activities, and participation in societies. As a result, expenses are incurred on bus fares, food etc, and the children are also being over-strained. I would, therefore, urge that the Ministry reconsider the matter and arrange these activities within the normal schooling hours. (3) Can the load on extracurricular activities, particularly in connection with watering of plants or gardening (the work of the gardener) be taken off the shoulders of the teachers? Or if a teacher is appointed to do that job, he should not be asked to take charge of other activities, such as the supervision of servants (which is the work of the principals); the cleaning up, painting and attending to the repairs and maintenance of the school building. How are the students to learn from the teachers if the latter are so hard pressed? (4) Has the Ministry any intention of sending principals and senior assistants of Government schools in particular for refresher courses in good manners, politeness, etiquette, and professional ethics, so that they would not take a bullying attitude towards their staff, as is the common practice now? (5) When the Prime Minister and the Education Minister visited the schools, there was a hive of activities all of a sudden. Can the Minister, or the Parliamentary Secretary or the Director of Education make occasional spot checks on schools to see that everything is going on smoothly? Besides the above, there are inspectors of schools who are junior in rank to the Secondary School Principals, and yet they are detailed to check on the schools. It appears that the inspectorate has become a joke. Inspectors are on a lower grade than the principals. How can they control people on a higher grade? (6) It is a common sight to see overloaded buses for school children. The Minister must listen to this. Have the police made any checks on these bus operators to ensure the safety of the children? These overloaded buses carrying school children are a common sight daily in the Bukit Timah and Dunearn Road areas. I hope the Minister will have time to answer this point.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I refer to the speech made by the Member for Moulmein. He has made the point that there is nothing unchaste about the question of money with teachers. This over-concern has succeeded in persuading even me to believe that there might be a certain unchastity in the teaching profession's preoccupation with monetary incentives. I think the most effective argument in the profession's claim for monetary award is not a relentless complaint against official inattention, but a relentless demonstration of professional expertise. If the Member for Moulmein and the Member for Telok Blangah can assist in moving the entire profession to achieve distinctive standards of performance without allowing an over-concern for prompt attention to monetary claims to cool their ardour, I am sure that the awards, if deserving will be forthcoming.

In the next world!

In convincing the public and the authorities that teachers should receive greater monetary awards, I think that nothing can be more articulate than the achievement of professional expertise which is consonant with the aspirations of the nation.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I agree with the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Home Affairs that the best selling point for teachers is for them to demonstrate a sense of professionalism. This was amply demonstrated recently at the teachers' seminar sponsored by the Singapore Teachers' Union from the 27th of February to the 1st of March. The discussions were serious, responsible and intelligent. I do not dispute the question of whether or not the teachers are demonstrating themselves in the right way. My grouse is that the teachers' claims are allowed to be forgotten because of some inefficient officials, particularly the Treasury officials, who are holding up the matter. This is the point I wish to raise. I do not think it is over the rationale of whether the teachers deserve the claims or not. I am afraid this issue is not receiving enough attention from the people at the top, and everything is being left to the inefficiency, very narrow, one-track mind of the Treasury officials. Before I sit down, I just want to remark that the tone adopted by the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Home Affairs seems to be a little different from that of last year when he was sitting next to me.

With your indulgence, Sir, I wish to make one comment on what the Member for Moulmein has just said. I think the entire seminar that was recently held merely demonstrated that there is something lacking in the expertise of the teaching profession. What is necessary hereafter is to remedy the shortcomings or the defects that are current in the teaching profession. As regards my position, Sir, when I was with the Members on the Back-benches opposite, I had consistently maintained that the foremost consideration, in so far as teaching was concerned, was the need at all times to demonstrate a faultless expertise in the profession. I maintain that such demonstration will continually serve as a convincing argument for any claim of monetary awards by the profession.

The Minister for Education has only ten minutes to reply to all the speeches.

Mr Speaker, Sir, after listening to the speeches today in regard to education, I am more than ever convinced that everyone here considers himself to be an expert on education. We have today listened to three Members who are presidents of their own Teachers' Unions and to an adviser of a workshop committee. As far as I can see, they do not seem to agree on anything. The Member for Sembawang has complained that the Ministry of Education does not know what it is doing in implementing the new syllabus and, therefore, has to tell the principals, "Do what you can." On the other hand, we have the Member for Moulmein saying that the officials in the Ministry of Education do not make use of the expertise and the professionalism of the teachers. There you are. You have two of them differing! Who is right? I will go on now and try to answer within the short space of ten minutes all the queries raised by Members. First, I will take the queries raised by the Member for Sembawang. He asked why there was a delay in the implementation of the syllabus and the distribution of school textbooks. With regard to the textbooks used in former years, I have received no complaints about delay in the implementation of the new syllabus in the primary schools. To use his own words, he has said that education is an important factor in our national life, since through education we should be able to educate our young citizens in the skills which we require of them in later life. 4.45 p.m. So we have to give very careful consideration to the syllabus and the curriculum. And the delay is caused by the fact that when I assumed the duties of the Minister for Education some time in September, I asked for a review of the syllabus and during that period we put up a new one. I would say that we gave it every consideration and were able to bring out the new syllabus and new textbooks to be implemented in January in some instances in a few schools. The Member was not here when the Minister of State for Education replied to the question on relief teachers. Since I have very little time left, I will have to refer the Member to the Hansard, [Vol. 30, No. 9, cols. 537-41] and if he will read carefully the reply given therein, he will know why it is not possible to employ relief teachers on a permanent basis. I think that disposes of the questions which the Member raised. I next come to the Member for Moulmein. 1 was really serious when I said that I hoped that it was not only the salary that motivates our teachers. I am sure it is not, because if it were only money that motivates our teachers, we would not be able to expand the educational service as we have done, nor would we be able to have such quality in the educational service as we are having now. I am most grateful to another ex-teacher in joining in the debate and defending the stand taken. Let me repeat that in December we sent our recommendations with regard to the discussions we had with the Teachers' Unions on salary scales and the terms and conditions of the teaching service to the Ministry of Finance. To come to the Member for Jurong, he said that we should not listen to experts. Well, I am listening to experts and I am listening to principals and teachers who are implementing the policy. There is dialogue now. There is dialogue between Ministry officials and members of the Teachers' Unions, principals and teachers. I am myself sitting on the committee which is reviewing the objectives of our educational policy from time to time. So there is this discussion going on and we are trying to get right down to the root of the matter and hope that by doing so the teaching profession will be able to display professional excellence in education. An hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Was that the term the Parliamentary Secretary used?

Professional expertise!

Yes, professional expertise. Through the `officials of the Teachers' Unions, I would ask the teachers to speak up and give us their professional expertise. With regard to the question of reviewing the present staffing quota raised by the Member for Jurong, I would like it to be made known that, on the average, the teachers in Singapore are asked to do about 18 hours of work per week compared with 22 hours elsewhere. So in no way can we say that they are overworked. As far as extra-curricular activities are concerned, the Member for Anson made a suggestion that teachers should not be asked to undertake these activities. I wonder whether the Member would like people from outside the schools to take the schoolboys in football, cricket or scouting. These activities, I would think, go together with teaching, and as far as extra-curricular activities are concerned, like gardening and watering the plants, we have no end of volunteers among the teachers themselves to lead our boys. Another point which I would like to make is that in spite of the fact that our teachers on the average are given only 18 hours of work a week compared with 22 hours elsewhere, they are, on the whole, paid very well compared with the salaries of teachers elsewhere. If I am not mistaken, they are the best-paid teachers in Southeast Asia. In spite of that, we are reviewing the conditions of service and the salary structure to see in what way we can give them that little bit of incentive by bringing in what the Member for Moulmein has described as being "unchaste", namely, the question of money incentives. On the question of medical benefits for aided-school staff, they are enjoying the same benefits. The only thing now is that there are not enough wards in the General Hospital. The benefits which should have been extended to the families are being withheld until my colleague, the Minister for Health, has sufficient ward space.

The Association has agreed on this matter.

Sir, to come to the Member for Paya Lebar, the question of the retirement age is governed by the Pensions Ordinance and the Pensions Regulations and they are the same for officers in the educational service as for officers in the administrative service. They have all been made common. They retire at the age of 55. There are certain instances under certain regulations which allow officers to retire at the age of 60. I think we have done everything we can to regularise the position as far as the teaching service is concerned. The Member also proposed that Government should build a centre where teachers can go and enjoy themselves. One of the reasons he gave was that in this way there would be a place for teachers from all the language streams to get together and know one another. I think there are enough places in Singapore for people of every walk of life to go and enjoy themselves. I was very surprised indeed to hear from him that there is a prohibition against teachers going to certain places. I am not aware that the Ministry of Education - Some hon. Members: Bars!

I would not like to see a teacher frequenting a bar. But there is nothing to stop a teacher from going to a bar if he so desires. I can assure Members that I will not take action. But if he goes there every day and becomes a drunkard, then action will be taken. The Member mentioned that there are certain places where the teachers themselves would not go and I would think that a bar is a place where the teachers themselves would not go. As far as I am aware, there is nothing to prohibit a teacher from enjoying himself in any way he likes. The only thing is that he must know that he holds a responsible position as a teacher and is expected to set a good example. Beyond that there is no prohibition from the Ministry of Education. Mr Speaker, Sir, I think I have answered most of the questions raised by Backbenchers. As the Member for Anson has said, since four or five Members have raised so many questions, perhaps there may be one or two which I have missed out. If I have and if there is time and if the Member can repeat the question or point for clarification, I do not mind answering.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister has not answered the important question on Tamil textbooks.

With regard to the question of Tamil textbooks from India and Malaysia, I think it is right that we should teach our people about Singapore. But do we have the professional expertise to write a book on this subject? If we have, then by all means use it. Otherwise, use the best books that are available. And the best available at the moment are Tamil textbooks from Malaysia and India. We are doing the revision. In the meanwhile, in the civics course, we will tell them more about Singapore.

Sir, that is not the point. The books are printed in Kuala Lumpur. But suppose a book is printed in Singapore, can we get it across the causeway?

Sir, it is not within my power to say yes or no.

But why cannot the textbooks be printed in Singapore? What is the difficulty?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I was saving that with a population of two million people, if we think we have experts on every subject, then we are going to be very disappointed indeed. I think we should cull the best from all over the world. As far as textbooks, syllabuses and curricula are concerned, we will do what we can. But we must also be aware of the fact that it is not possible for us or for any nation of two million or even 20 million people to do everything themselves and to find the best possible of everything in their own country.

It is only a matter of translating from English to Tamil. That is all and that is not difficult.

If it were that simple, I am sure my experts would have told me. But they say, "Let us use the best books available." And the best available books at the moment, as far as the Tamil language is concerned, come from Malaysia and India. Therefore, we make use of the best available books.

Mr Speaker. Sir, I think the Minister has misunderstood what the Member for Anson was trying to say about extramural activities. It is not a question of teachers taking charge of football, scouting or netball. These are the normal extramural activities which they must perform. That is accepted. What they are grousing about is that they have to do things outside their normal scope of duties; like the savings campaign where they have to become postmasters or what have you. This definitely is not within their normal function even if they have to take up extramural activities. Other examples are the health campaign, the gardening campaign, and some time ago the Ministry informed the schools to set up advisory committees where principals must become secretaries of committees, and overnight everybody had to start looking around for about 10 to 12 persons who are education-conscious citizens to look after the interest of each school. These advisory committees have to be set up everywhere and the teachers have to serve tea during meetings and things like that. The point is not extra-mural activities that normally should be done by teachers. It is this sort of non-professional extramural activities that the teachers are grousing about. 5.00 p.m.

Sir, the Member for Moulmein has clarified what is in the minds of the teachers with regard to extra-curricular activities, that they are being asked to perform duties above and beyond what is required of them. Among the activities mentioned there are some which are desirable for the teachers as well as for the students themselves, for instance, the habit of saving and maintaining a beautiful garden. I myself appreciate gardens but, Mr Speaker, Sir, there is a point to be made here, that we do become engrossed in some of the national campaigns in which we are engaged. Here, I blame not so much the enthusiasm of my colleagues in pushing these campaigns and getting the teachers to help, but the professional experts that we have in the Ministry of Education, because, in trying to keep in line with the national campaigns, they are apt to forget what are the priorities in the Ministry of Education. If they are very clear in their minds that those are the priorities, that those are the things which the Ministry of Education should be engaged in and they give their professional or expert advice, then the Minister for Education would be able to say, "Yes, but do we have the time or is it desirable that we do this and that?" Once the objective has been set, and the priorities have been defined, this complaint will stop. I am going down among the teachers, the specialists, inspectors and trade unionists to find out their views, and what they think should be the objective of the Ministry of Education, and what are the priorities; what we can do and what we cannot do. This is where I want them to speak up because once I have got all these opinions, we will be able to sit down and discuss, and we will put right what the Ministry of Education is expected to do; what it can do, and cannot do, and in what way we can help the national effort wherever it is required.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I am very glad that the Minister for Education is sincere in having a dialogue with the Teachers' Unions and in hearing from them. It is a good thing that our Minister for Education does not believe too much in experts. I raised the point last year that the Minister should simplify the attendance registers, a job which actually wastes a lot of the teachers' time. This is the point which the Minister has not answered.

Sir, I have looked into the particulars required of the register. I cannot see how we can make it simpler, because all those particulars are important and are necessary for the purposes of awarding scholarships or knowing whether the student qualifies for remission of school fees; whether or not he is a Singapore citizen; when he was born, etc. The Member for Jurong is a teacher himself. Can he tell me what items should have been left Out from the register of students?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I have discussed this matter with the Member for Jurong. Can I take this opportunity to reply on his behalf and clarify to the Minister what is meant by a simplification of the register? It is not that these particulars are not important. They are important and they must be kept. I think the complaint is, why should these particulars be filled year in and year out? A child is in a primary school for six years, and every year the parent has to fill in the same particulars. I think some parents are greatly annoyed when they are asked to bring their identity cards and citizenship papers every year.

I have been informed by my Minister of State that the parents are not required to fill those particulars every year.

As regards filling those particulars, there can be a more efficient way of doing it. There can be a kind of index where you fill in the child's particulars only once and not six times when he is in the primary school. An hon. Member: There is a slight improvement on it.

Fair enough, there is a slight improvement in the sense that parents need not have to do that every year, hut I was not aware of this because there was no communication with the Ministry.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I think the Minister has done his best to answer all the questions raised by the Backbenchers. So we will let him have some rest. I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

I propose to suspend now. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Order. I suspend the sitting now and will take the Chair again at 5.35 p.m. Sitting accordingly suspended at 5.05 p.m. until 5.35 p.m. Sitting resumed at 5.35 p.m.

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

Head 0801 (contd.) -

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1005*. (*The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs. P. Govindaswamy, Ho Kah Leong and Tay Boon Too) Mr Speaker, Sir, the matter I am going to raise is not a new one, and I hope the Minister will not refer me to the Hansard. This matter has been raised and answered from time to time in this House, but has remained unsettled outside it. This is the problem of posting primary school leavers to secondary schools. My constituency is not one where many parents have chauffeur-driven cars to take their children to and from school. I notice that many primary school leavers in my constituency have been posted to secondary schools far away from their homes because of their poor performance in the Primary School Leaving Examination. In many cases, these children fared badly because their parents could not provide them with capable private tutors to help them. Furthermore, they have to work to help their parents make a living, or they have to work in the house, such as taking care of the younger brothers and sisters. As a result, their studies are not up to the standard of those children of the rich. As such, if we post these poor children with poor performance to secondary schools which are far away from their homes, we are in fact penalising them for being poor. It is unfair for the receiving secondary schools, which are mostly in rural areas, to take in these unfortunate students unless these schools have been designed by the Ministry of Education as substandard schools to accommodate the weak students who are in many cases victims of poverty and circumstances. If that is the case, we are not educating our young ones but are, in fact, classifying and discriminating against them. I hope this is not the policy of the Ministry of Education. By posting these poor children to schools far away from their homes, we are, in fact, imposing psychological and financial pressure on many students and their parents. This matter of posting has become more serious and acute in the light of the Government's intention to allow the bus fares to go up from the minimum of five cents to ten cents. Sir, I would request the Minister to tell the House what steps he is planning to take to ensure that no unnecessary hardships on both the parents and the students are created by this policy of posting students to secondary schools far away from their homes in the future.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker. Sir, the purpose of education is to bring up a person to be a useful citizen who can contribute to society and the nation. Of course, we should not disregard the requirements of our realities and bring up a lot of people who are of no use to the country or society. Old concepts have already given place to new concepts. At the moment, we are implementing bi- or tri-lateral education systems. That is to say, we have an Arts stream as well as a Science stream in the academic system of education. In the technical system of education, we have vocational and technical streams. This, of course, is of use at the present juncture, but if we classify the systems of education too early, that is, make the students specialise in certain subjects too early, it may not be of long-term benefit to them or to our country, because we may produce arts scholars without any knowledge of science or scientists without any taste for art, or craftsmen without any literary taste. We may produce some scientific "Frankensteins"! So I hope the Ministry will ponder over this in their plans at this juncture. In recent years we have been struggling for a rugged society. Therefore, physical education is a very important subject in schools. Though there are about 15 weeks in a term and every week there is one period for physical education, if there are now and then conferences on physical education, tournaments and sports meets and so on and P. E. teachers are required to attend to them, how can we give the students any time for physical education? For smaller schools, the students will have no proper P.E, lessons throughout the year. How can we train our students and bring out their good physical qualities at all? I hope the Minister can remedy this situation. As regards the compilation of textbooks, since they are used as a means of teaching, the contents and the form are important, and progressive steps of learning and other cogent considerations should also be borne in mind. They should meet the requirements of students of different ages and of different standards to achieve definite effects. The contents should be of a realistic nature, meeting the requirements of the time so as to attain the ends of education. Also, the textbooks should be reasonable in price and should not be changed every year or allowed to increase in price freely, because that would be giving parents an additional financial burden.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I think the Member for Delta is aware of the criteria we use for posting children to secondary schools, since he says that although the matter has been raised time and time again in this House, nothing has happened. I would like to ask him what sort of criteria he would use and, by using them, whether he could guarantee that there would be no hardship. No matter what criteria we use, there would be some hardship. The only way we can resolve this hardship is to build a secondary school in every area in Singapore, let us say about a quarter of a mile from each other. Then we can solve that problem. But is this desirable? Is it possible to do that? Can we do that? Therefore, since we cannot do that, the best we can do is to select the criteria by which we post the students to secondary schools. One of the criteria is that we try to avoid this difficulty of transport as far as possible so that, everything being equal, we would give the students a place nearest his home. So I will say this: no matter what criteria we use, there would be hardship among the poor. 5.45 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not the Minister for Education and, therefore, I do not have experts to help me. If I were the Minister for Education, I would give the criteria.

Sir, let me tell the Member that, as Minister for Education, any criteria that we use, there will be this problem. And the criteria that we use now do not discriminate against the poor. I think the Member for Delta must have read somewhere that the Minister of Defence has made a rough analysis and found that most of the bright students who have won scholarships have come from poor families. So the criteria that we use do not discriminate against the poor at all. The Member will find that most of the poor children are posted to the school of their first choice. So the problem would arise among those who can afford the transport.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I do not think that is true, because in one of my meet-the-people sessions the people who came to see me to ask for transfers for their children were poor. They did not want their children to be transferred to schools such as the Toh Tuck School at Jurong Road, as it is too far away.

Sir, if I remember rightly, about 98 per cent of these children were given places of their first choice. So the Member has only heard from the two per cent, and not from the 98 per cent who were satisfied. This is the usual case in meet-the-people sessions. So unless we have a set of criteria by which we can reduce the number of disappointed people to below two per cent, I think we will stick to the present criteria. The Member for Jurong was afraid that we might ask the students - correct me if I am wrong - to specialise too early. I am not aware of this. On the other hand, he said that we could not have rugged citizens if we gave them only one period of physical exercise.

(In Mandarin): Sir, perhaps due to the interpretation, there has been some misunderstanding. What I meant was that because the teachers in charge of physical education very often are called away for meetings or to take part in certain activities, the time they have left to teach physical education is very limited. Therefore, the students do not have enough time for physical education. In this way, how can we expect them to become rugged?

Sir, this is more an exception than the rule. Probably he has one or two isolated cases in mind. It is not the policy of the Ministry to interfere with the school time-table that is already set out, or to call up teachers for meetings when they should be teaching physical education. But if any principal does such a thing, he will not remain a principal for long.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendments stood in the name of Mr N. Govindasamy -

Mr Govindasamy?

Sir, I am not moving both of my amendments. The following amendment stood in the names of Messrs. P. Govindaswamy. Ho Kah Leong, and Tay Boon Too -

Amendment No. (5) , Mr P. Govindaswamy.

I am not speaking on my amendment. Sir.

Mr Ho Kah Leong.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker. Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated or Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1131. Sir, extra-curricular activities have been implemented in our schools for many years, but there are certain aspects which are not satisfactory. I would like to avail myself of this opportunity to raise this question for the consideration of the Minister. First of all, concerning the allocation of marks for extra-curricular activities, the system of marking was originally not quite reasonable. Later, because of the opinions advanced by the various teaching professions and organisations, this system has been improved and been found to be more reasonable. As marks earned by students for extra-curricular activities may be taken into consideration when they apply for admission to Pre-University classes, they therefore pay very great attention to this system of marking, although the Ministry of Education does not pay too much attention to it. I say this because the Ministry has not sent anybody to the various schools to see how these extra-curricular activities are carried out or how the marking is done. This invariably leads to a situation where some schools, in order to enable their students to join Pre-University classes, award more marks to them. This is very dangerous because it will lead to anomalies and unfairness. I hope the Minister will pay attention to this matter. Secondly, in many schools there are extra-curricular activities of an academic nature. In almost every school there is a certain set of characteristics or features and these vary from school to school. So the students do not know which one to choose. And finally when it comes to extra-curricular periods, you will find that actually they are not being made full use of. This is because there is no definite scheme or standard set by the Ministry. I hope there can be some guidance to enable the teachers to know how these extra-mural activities should be conducted, and how they could help them. The third point is about the distribution of work-load in respect of extra-curricular activities. There are some teachers who need not have to be burdened with this, while others arc made responsible for many such activities. They cannot complain to anybody because the right to assign the work is in the hands of the principal. They can only stomach this complaint because there is the confidential report on them by the principal. I hope the Minister will take measures to remedy this.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the standard of athletics of any country depends mainly on the students' efforts. Whether or not it reaches international standard again depends on the students themselves. At the present moment, sports and athletic activities in the primary and secondary schools are directed by the Extra-curricular Activities Centre of the Ministry of Education. But from the athletic meets and competitions held every year in primary and secondary schools, we find that the interest of students in physical education and sports seems to have declined, and their performance is not so ideal as we would expect it to be. This is because the officers in charge of implementing the extra-curricular activities have not adopted a positive attitude. They think that as long as they have organised some sports or games for some schools to take part they have discharged their duties, and are not worried about the standard of performance or results. In the past few years, the inspectorate in charge of physical education has divided the whole of Singapore into districts, each district with one sports council and with the school principals in the district as ex-officio members. Whenever the council meets, these school principals wou1d do all the talking and planning, leaving out the sports teachers, who are in actual charge of sports. They could only sit behind the principals to observe and listen to what their principals have to say, instead of speaking their minds on the subject with which they are more conversant. There is no doubt that some principals have some knowledge of sports and physical education, but by and large most of them know very little about it. So if sports and physical education is to be left in the hands of such principals, it is like trying to catch a fish up a tree, i.e., attempting the impossible. Sports activities, as laid down by the council, normally are dealt with superficially, and the teachers, therefore, will always be confronted with some technical problems in the course of implementing these activities. As a result, the reaction from the students cannot be properly checked. Each time a sports meet or some kind of competition is held in any district, the students who form the spectators are very small in number. Very few would want to see such games or sports meets. It is just a case of competitors and officials performing for themselves with hardly any spectators. Mr Speaker, Sir, in order to take immediate remedial action on this. I feel that only those persons who have knowledge and experience and proper training should be allowed to take charge of physical education and sports activities of the students, and not allow such matters to be put into the hands of inexperienced school principals. Only then will we be able better to implement cur policy in the field of sports and athletic activities. 6.00 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, it is interesting to hear from the Member for Paya Lebar that some teachers are not interested in sporting activities. I think there is a mission for him, as president of a teachers' union to inculcate an interest in sporting activities among the teachers when he meets them. In some way, he has misunderstood the organisational set-up of a school. When you appoint a man to be a principal of a school, he is responsible for all the school activities. If he is a good principal, he will choose a man who is experienced in E.C.A. activities to run those activities and those experienced in sports to run sporting activities. However, if we were to make the sports secretary responsible for sports activities in the school without being responsible to the principal, we would have a situation when the principal might be holding, let us say, a session in the hall and the sports secretary might be calling for the students to take part in sporting activities outside. There is more than one leader. There are two leaders there. So from an organisational point of view, it is not desirable that the school's sporting activities should be run by a person who is not responsible to the principal. I agree that it must be run by someone who understands what he is doing. We are running classes for those who will be taking the lead in extra-curricular activities. I now come to the Member for Jurong who is dissatisfied with the grading of extra-curricular marks. I would like to inform the Member that there has been a revision. Mr Ho Kah Leong rose - Mr Lim Kim San resumed his seat.

The Minister has given way. Mr Ho.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I did not mean that. At first the marking system was in a state of confusion, but after adopting the suggestions of the teaching organisations, the system has been improved. What I mean is that the Ministry has not been paying much attention to the marking system of various schools. The situation should be improved.

It is our duty to see that any marking is fairly made. We do send out inspectors from time to time, but it is not possible to send them to every school. Here again, I come to the question of whether we have a competent man to be a principal of a school. If he is a competent principal, complaints of this nature will not arise. Here again, both the trade unionists and the Ministry of Education have a mission to accomplish, and that is to bring expertise and knowledge to bear on people holding a special post like that of a principal.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to make a clarification. The Minister has misunderstood what I said. Maybe he did not hear what I said. What I said was that the district sporting activities are organised by principals who know nothing about sports. I am not saying that the teachers are not interested in sports. What I am saying is that the sporting activities should, be planned and organised by a committee of sports teachers and those who know sports. For instance, there may well be a sports programme where you have a 100 metres dash as the first event and the next event will be a 400 metres race then you have all the events in short distance running crammed together.

I am sorry if I have misunderstood the Member for Paya Lebar. I quite understand the example which he has quoted. It has happened. I am not at all surprised at this because there has been such a terrific expansion in sporting activities. However, both the principals and sports secretaries are in the process of learning. As long as they learn and improve the next time, I do not mind. One has to start learning at some time. As long as they are learning, I am quite satisfied.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister has not answered another question. I have asked him whether the Ministry of Education is prepared to conduct courses so that teachers will be taught how to run extra-curricular activities better than they are now doing.

I thought I had replied to his question by saying that we are running relevant courses for those who are taking classes in extra-curricular activities. Of course, when we run classes we hope that those attending will improve in time. The idea of running classes is to give teachers the technical know-how. If the Member is patient, he will be able to see the fruits of our endeavours in due course.

(In Mandarin): In view of the answer given by the Minister, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1154. Sir, in moving this amendment, may I range over the next two amendments* which also stand in my name? The topics I wish to speak under all these amendments are related. * The amendments read as follows: (7) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1155. (8) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1156.

Yes.

Sir, in the Memorandum on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure of Singapore, it is stated that the deletion of 111 specialist teacher posts, for which grade recruitment has ceased, has resulted in a saving of $1,237,360. I presume that this reduction is to be found under the three subheads that I have mentioned just now. The question is whether there will be any more recruitment of specialist teachers from now on. Sir, I also want to know the position of the present incumbents of these specialist teacher posts. Have they all retired or have those who are still in service lost their specialist allowances? One of the complaints that we often hear from teachers is that there is a lack of promotion prospects in the education service. There are no opportunities to move from one grade to another. The teachers have always claimed that the vast majority of them, in fact, about 90 or 95 per cent of them, would begin and end their career as teachers. There is no possibility of even a small fraction of them becoming principals or inspectors of schools. That being the case, it appears that now even the opportunity for some teachers to become specialist teachers has been denied. Can the Minister inform the House who the specialist teachers were, and why the posts have been abolished once and for all?

Mr Speaker, Sir, my brief tells me that the recruitment of specialist teachers ceased in 1958. There has been no more recruitment of specialist teachers since then. Except for 24 of them, all have left the service. Presumably most of them retired, some may have died, and some may have joined other services. The present position is that 24 of them are in the service. They have not lost their pension nor have they lost their specialist allowance. With regard to the complaint that 90 or 95 per cent of the teachers begin and end their career as teachers, this is not surprising. There is always a pyramid in any profession. If the pyramid is put at a hundred per cent, you get about ten per cent who can go to the top. I think that is very good indeed. I do not know how we can make it possible for the 90 per cent of the teachers to go to the top of the pyramid. I do not think that in any service it is possible for the top of the pyramid to contain 90 per cent of those who join it. As far as I know, there is going to be no recruitment of specialist teachers. Anyway, the Teachers' Unions and the Ministry have been discussing avenues of promotion and the restructuring of the salary scales. Once the recommendations are accepted, there will be avenues for promotion for teachers. The system will be such that in promoting a teacher to become a principal, we do not at the same time lose a good teacher and gain a bad principal. That is the principle on which we will work on all promotion schemes. It will be possible for a good teacher who really likes teaching and is a credit to the profession to remain as a teacher and yet be given recognition. If he is a good teacher, probably he need not be promoted to be a principal or an official in the Education Ministry in order to enjoy a pay which is equivalent or almost equivalent to that which a principal and Ministry officials enjoy. We will make teaching a worth-while career in the restructuring of the salary scales.

Sir, I partly accept the Minister's explanation. The recruitment of specialist teachers stopped in 1958. I am not quarrelling about that. I thought the Minister said that in a pyramid you could never have 90 per cent of those in service right at the top. I agree with him entirely on that point, but you do not have in any service 90 per cent remaining right at the bottom either. It must be a pyramid which is correctly structured from the base to the apex. I think the Ministry acknowledges this fact. That is why the Minister himself has said just now that the Ministry is looking into the possibility of providing more promotion prospects. If that is the case, I gladly withdraw this amendment. However, we have to make the pyramid sharper.

Sir, if the pyramid is sharper, there will be a smaller percentage going to the top.

I mean broader, Sir.

A pyramid depends upon the base. If we have a broader base, then we have more room at the top. But here again it all depends. We have about 17,003 to 18,003 teachers in the service, and we cannot expect more than 10 per cent to hold really high posts. Otherwise we will have so many generals and so few soldiers. Anyway, it is in the interest of Singapore and the Ministry of Education to see that the teachers are relatively satisfied with their conditions of service. They should have enough of what has been described as an unchaste subject -money. At the same time, we must also keep our sense of perspective to see that people are not promoted beyond their capacity. We will make available all avenues of promotion commensurate with their service. This has been occupying our attention in the Ministry for some time.

Sir, I withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. 6.15 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1158. Sir, I believe the problem of the shortage of graduate teachers in secondary schools has been with the Ministry of Education for more than a decade, and non-graduate teachers have been playing a very important role in the secondary schools in the last decade. I am just wondering whether, with the intention of improving the system of teacher training and the talk about setting up the Institute of Education, the Ministry will take immediate steps to conduct Bachelor of Education courses to enable serving teachers to take up such courses so that they can move from their present status of non-graduate teachers to that of graduate teachers. This not only provides an additional incentive to the teaching profession, but I think it also helps to serve a need in our secondary schools where the question of constant upgrading of professional expertise is very essential.

Mr Speaker, Sir, we understand that everybody wants to improve himself, not least the teachers. We will explore every avenue possible to see that the ambitious teacher who wants to better qualify himself for his job should have a way by which he can upgrade his skill and his position in the Ministry. Coming to the Institute of Education. I would like to take this opportunity to inform the House that when I assumed the post of the Minister for Education, the Institute of Education Bill had been read the First time and I took it through the Second and Third Readings. Since then, the officials of my Ministry and I have given considerable thought to whether we should go ahead with the setting up of the Institute of Education. I must confess that I have second thoughts about it because the circumstances then prevailing have now changed. On going through the experience of other countries where they have the degree of Bachelor of Education, I find that there were some very critical comments made on the setting up of an Institute of Education purely to give a degree in education. I have here the remarks of a well-known British educationist, Professor G. Taylor, who wrote in an article in The Times Educational Supplement that "the setting up of the Bachelor of Education degree course is a flagrant example of the current fashion among educationists and intellectuals to decide now and think later." I would like to learn from this statement and I prefer to think now rather than later. I think there will be a delay, if not a postponement, in the setting up of the Institute of Education. But I would like to assure officials of the Singapore Teachers' Union as well as Backbenchers that this will in no way stop the upgrading of skills and the training of teachers. In fact, we will be taking over some, if not all, of the functions which are now undertaken in the School of Education in the University of Singapore so that there will be sufficient facilities for those who want to better themselves to take up the necessary course of education in the Teachers' Training College itself.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move. That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1191. Sir, I would like to ask the Minister for Education whether he is aware that his Ministry is violating one of the provisions in the Instruction Manual which stipulates that no acting appointment should exceed more than a year. In his Ministry, for example, some principals act for as long as three years. I just do not understand it. Civil servants cannot violate the provisions in the Instruction Manual without any penalty. The Ministry of Education is getting away with this without any penalty. I believe that a few months ago, applications were invited from teachers for promotion posts and nothing has happened after that. We would like to know what is the progress of this promotion exercise.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am a law-abiding citizen and I dislike violating anything, much less the Instruction Manual of my own Ministry. However. I think there are practical difficulties in not violating the provision and, allowing acting appointments to exceed more than one year largely because of the difficulty of finding the requisite people to fill the posts. On the question of filling the posts of principals of primary schools, as Members know, appointments and promotion exercises do not come within the purview of the Ministry of Education. This is done by the Public Service Commission. I am given to understand that the usual process has been completed and it is likely that the candidates will be called for interview some time next month.

Sir, as regards promotion posts such as the posts of principals and Inspectors of Schools, it is not a question of difficulty in getting experienced people to fill them. I think it is because promotion exercises are not held regularly. I accept the Minister's explanation that this matter is outside the purview of the Ministry of Education and that it is a matter for the Public Service Commission. I suppose that the P.S.C, which deals with recruitment and promotion exercises for the whole civil service always faces the problem of finding the time to have regular promotion exercises for the Ministry of Education. In view of this practical difficulty and since the Ministry is big and a large number of personnel are involved, like the Police which has a separate commission dealing with staff matters, I wonder whether the Minister will consider setting up a separate education service commission dealing with recruitment as well as promotion exercises for members of the teaching profession.

Mr Speaker, Sir, it is a most welcome suggestion which I will consider carefully.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1193. Sir, the term "supernumerary" really bugs me. Previously I had two amendments on similar posts which I withdrew under the head Ministry of Education. Throughout the Estimates, I notice Office Boys (Supernumerary), Clerical Officers (Supernumerary), Clerical Assistants (Supernumerary), etc. For the first time, we have "Teachers. Non-Graduates (Supernumerary)", 889 of them, and not just one or two of them as requested in other Ministries. Last year, there were no estimates for this special brand of supernumerary teachers. The amount required for them is $3,354,000. I would like the Minister to tell me who these supernumerary teachers are. Sir, the substitute relief teachers cannot be supernumerary teachers because under subhead 2118, another $2,403,000 is asked for "Substitute Relief Teachers". In the teaching service, we already have too many different types of teachers. We have graduate teachers, teachers in the General Education Department, vocational teachers, technical teachers and to this multitude of categories in the last few years. Two more categories have been included, i.e., the substitute relief teachers and Teachers, Non-Graduates (Supernumerary). What are these Teachers, Non-Graduates (Supernumerary), expected to teach?

Mr Speaker. Sir, "supernumerary" here is a term used by the Ministry of Finance. I believe, to warn the Department or the Ministry concerned that you have more bodies than they think you should have. If Members will refer to subhead 1158, they will see that in 1970-71 we had an establishment of 2.223 whereas for 1971-72 we are given an establishment of 2,056. In other words, there is a difference of 100-odd. Similarly, under subhead 1192. Members will find that for 1970-71 we had an establishment of 7,797, whereas for 1971-72 we are given an establishment of 6,997. In the eyes of the Treasury, there should be a paring down of the number of teachers in the Ministry of Education. In other words, they estimate that we have too many bodies. Incidentally, I would like to take the opportunity also to explain that the Treasury do have a case in that we are having too many bodies in the Ministry. This is so if you consider the situation as a whole, but, in actual fact, there are not too many bodies for the simple reason that there has been a terrific expansion in the English stream. We are very short of teachers there. But there has not been this expansion in the non-English streams, with the result that we have excess bodies there. 6.30 p.m. But these excess bodies in most cases cannot be used to do the work in the English stream. As a result of this, we have to pare down the number. It will not be that easy to get extension -would like the Member for Paya Lebar to pay close attention to this - for those who are due for retirement. Because of the shortage of teachers it was quite easy to get an extension of three years in the first instance after the retiring age from 55 years until 58 years. After that, another two years' extension, and then a further extension from year to year till he is 65 years old. But now we are not given SO large an establishment, so we have to be very careful about giving extension and have to justify every post that we fill. I hope that gives the Member a clear picture of what a supernumerary post is. It is not a super human being in the Ministry of Education!

I am glad to hear the reply given by the Minister for Education, but like my colleague, the Member for Moulmein, who said that he would take up his issue with the Finance Minister later on when the estimates are debated, I will bring up this matter of supernumerary posts with him later. With that I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1196. Mr Speaker, Sir, under this subhead I wish to touch upon the plight of the Tamil teachers in the teaching service. During the past seven years the salaries of Tamil teachers have been brought up to the same level as that of the teachers in the other streams, and the anomalies have been done away with. During the terms of the previous two Ministers for Education, much has been done to improve the terms and conditions of service of the Tamil teachers. Now I can say that they are more or less in parity with their counterparts in the other streams. However, I wish to point out that there are a few disparities in the facilities allowed to Tamil teachers as compared with the teachers in the other streams. Firstly, the retraining of the S.S.L.C. trained teachers (a term used by the Ministry), resulting in an increase in their standard of teaching and their scales of pay. Secondly, the transfer of those teachers who have G.C.E. certificates with three credits, including Tamil, to the higher scale of service. Thirdly, to put these Tamil teachers in the scale of $295-925 as Division II officers, and to issue certificates to them to that effect. I understand that these three facilities have been accorded to the teachers in the Malay stream but not to the Tamil teachers. These three points are the only ones outstanding with the Ministry for the last few years. I hope the Minister will look into this matter.

Mr Speaker, Sir, we will iron out all anomalies where-ever possible. I am not so sure whether we have not ironed out completely all the anomalies. What is left there is probably to give these Tamil teachers the training so that they will be able to obtain the requisite qualifications as their counterparts in the other streams. Once that has been done I am sure they will be accorded the same conditions of service. We do not allow discrimination in the Ministry of Education.

I did say at the beginning of my remarks that most of the anomalies - I can safely say about 95 per cent - have been done away with. Only these three little disparities are there. I hope the Minister will look into them. I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Conceicao -

Mr Conceicao, amendment (13) .

I am not moving, Sir.

Amendment No. (14) , Mr Conceicao.

Mr Speaker. Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1221*. (* The same amendment also stood in the names of Messrs. Ho Kah Leong and Tay Boon Too) Mr Speaker, Sir, we have just heard the Minister say that his Ministry is having second thoughts about the implementation of the Institute of Education Act. From one viewpoint, I think the Minister must he commended for always being willing to take a second look at a problem and, if necessary resort to quite radically different approaches to its solution. But I would like to be enlightened on one or two points with regard to the possible change of mind vis-a-vis the establishment of the Institute of Education. The Minister has mentioned in a previous sitting that one of the purposes of the Institute of Education is to improve our standards of teaching and to remove limitations in the present administration of the Teachers' Training College. I am certain that these points are still in his mind, otherwise he would not have thought of other means, but I hope that, as soon as it is feasible, he will enlighten us on the steps that he is taking to ensure an improvement of the standards of teaching and to remove the limitations inherent in the present administration of the College. The Minister has mentioned - I think I interpreted him quite correctly - that the Ministry will be taking over the functions of the School of Education. Is that right, Sir?

The T.T.C.

Yes, the T.T.C, is taking over the functions of the School of Education. I am speaking in relation to the upgrading of the qualifications of non-graduates mentioned by the Member for Moulmein. Perhaps the Minister could enlighten us on how this could be done. In other words, what opportunities are offered at the T.T.C, to non-graduates to better their qualifications?

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I am quite in agreement with what the Member for Katong has said. Last year during the Second Reading on the Institute of Education Bill, the Minister for Education talked a great deal about it. He said that the setting up of the Institute of Education would raise the level of the teaching profession in Singapore. Today, however, we are sad to note that he is going to reconsider the setting up of the Institute of Education. This news will prove to be quite a blow to those aspiring for higher qualifications among our teachers. I hope the Minister will consider the question very carefully. I would like to ask him whether he is going to consult the opinions of the Teachers' Unions before he takes the final decision. He has said just now that he respects the opinions of the Teachers' Unions. The Minister has also mentioned that the T.T.C. will eventually take over the School of Education in the University of Singapore. I would like to ask him whether the T.T.C, is going to grant degrees to participants in the course, not only the Bachelor of Education degree, but also Master or even Ph. D. degrees in Education. Another point I would like to ask the Minister is this. We know that in the past certain courses in the T.T.C, were not suitable. For example, Science teachers undergoing training have to take a course in the teaching of the Chinese language, and vice versa. I would like to ask the Minister if he is going to review the courses available at the Teachers' Training College. Another question I would like to ask him is whether all trainee teachers are going to have a smaller work-load in schools, and how many periods is this reduction going to be?

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker. Sir, the Teachers' Training College has been established for quite some time now. It has played a significant role in the training of teachers and the promotion of education in our country. However, it suffers from a number of shortcomings. I would like to list the more glaring ones below. Firstly, on the question of the quality of the lecturers. The great majority of the lecturers in the Teachers' Training College have never had any experience in teaching in primary schools. They have not got the faintest idea about the teaching methods to be applied in primary schools. What they do lecture on is based entirely on textbooks. Therefore, they have not been able to provide accurate guidance in the matter of teaching in primary schools. There are a number of lecturers who do have experience in teaching primary schools, but they are not qualified because they are only certificate trained. If we expect these certificate-trained lecturers to lecture to trainees in these certificate classes, we are barking up the wrong tree. We cannot expect them to have any excellent performance. Secondly, the teaching method. When the lecturers in education at T.T.C, lecture on teaching methods, they just reproduce blindly material from the textbooks. They are great in theorising and shoptalk. But on how to teach a particular lesson, they are not able to provide any guidance and leave the trainees to grope in the dark. One can imagine what results we are going to get. 6.45 p.m. The third point is the lack of training in professional ethics. Actually this matter was raised by me two years ago during the budget debate. I said that the Teachers' Training College lacked a training course on professional ethics. Today, after two years, we still cannot find such a course in the T.T.C. I therefore bring this matter up again so that the Minister can have a good man-to-man talk with the Principal of the T.T.C, if we expect our teachers, after completing their training, to carry out their duties faithfully, to be responsible teachers, and to make sacrifices in the interest of education, we must inculcate in them a set of professional ethics to enable them to understand more fully the duties of the teachers. It is sad to note that the T.T.C, does not provide a training course on professional ethics. I think this is an extreme deficiency. The result is that many teachers, after having completed their training and performed their duty, will soon leave their teaching posts to seek greener pastures elsewhere. From this we can see that the T.T.C. should provide a training course on professional ethics. The fourth point refers to the in-service training courses conducted by the T.T.C. 1 find that many of these courses are repeated over and over again. For example, there was this one-year course on advanced education for primary school teachers conducted from 1968 to 1969. If we take a look at the syllabus, it would appear that the syllabus is very ambitious and comprehensive. But actually there is nothing much in it. It is quite devoid of any real content. It merely consists of old material being modified here and there. It is like putting old wine into a new bottle. There are some lecturers who know nothing about the subject they are supposed to lecture on. Instead they waffle and beat about the bush during lectures. They not only waste the time of the teachers, but also public funds. The fifth point I would like to bring up is the inequitable manner in which monetary rewards are made. Some of the in-service training courses conducted by the T.T.C., for example, training courses on second-language teaching and music, carry a monetary bonus at the end' of it. Those who complete the course successfully will either get an extra increment, or a bonus of $150, but some will not get anything at all. And there are some teachers who have undergone the same training and do the same amount of teaching but receive different treatment. This is extremely unfair and unreasonable. Although one may argue that the teacher should always seek to improve himself or to improve his knowledge and methods of teaching, and not look forward to monetary rewards, nevertheless we must treat all teachers alike. If we do want to give monetary rewards, then all of them must likewise he entitled to them. There must be a uniform principle in granting these rewards. This will then show that our Government is fair, and it will not give rise to dissatisfaction among our teachers, which could result in poor performance. Modern methods of education advance each day. If we expect the education system of our country to keep up with the times we have to pay attention to the training of our teachers. And as a body charged with the responsibility of training our teachers, the T.T.C, suffers from a great number of defects. It is time that the Ministry took remedial measures immediately.

Sir, the Education Minister has said earlier that he is having second thoughts about the establishment of the Institute of Education. He has quoted the views expressed by an expert in England about the desirability of setting up such an institution. I think there is a danger of being influenced too much by expert opinion, particularly if the expert is a foreigner, as he would probably be talking in a different context and, therefore, his opinion might not necessarily be correct. Offhand, I would say there is definitely a difference in the situation existing in Singapore as compared with that in England. I believe that most of the teachers in England are qualified in teacher training and are on a salary scale different from Singapore's, so that there is no good reason for them to further their teacher training in order to obtain the necessary recognised qualifications. But in Singapore there is a great need to provide non-graduate teachers with the opportunity to advance themselves professionally. In this respect, it is not just a question of getting them to attend classes and so on, but to give them proper recognition on completion of the course. I see advantages in having an Institute of Education, because this Institute, for example, could confer diplomas which could be equated to a university degree, and so give these teachers the recognition which graduate teachers are now enjoying. The Teachers' Training College, however, is not in a position to confer such a degree. If non-graduate teachers were to go to the University of Singapore, for example, to obtain a special university degree, then, apart from their difficulty in having to compete with the school leavers, I think they would be faced with so many other problems. My immediate reaction to the British expert's opinion, therefore, is that the expert and we are placed in very different situations. Perhaps he could be right if we are talking specifically of what the functions and scope of the Institute of Education should be. And there could be common agreement on this. But we on the other hand, need not have to have a different plan, contrary to what he has in mind because we can always pattern his recommendations to suit our local conditions. In addition, I think there is a need to provide educational research facilities for teachers on teacher training, methodology, and the like. These research activities must be directed towards the improvement of teaching methods, and I think the Institute of Education can take on this extra responsibility which, at this moment, no department or any section of the Ministry of Education can undertake with authority. So there are so many other benefits which this Institute can provide. There are so many other matters which we have got to look into in the context of our present situation. Therefore, before the Minister makes up his mind while he is having second thoughts, I think there should be more consultation and discussion with the teachers, as there can be a lot of other useful views on the matter. I would urge him to think very carefully, and I must say that I disagree with him on the need to have second thoughts. Perhaps we could sit down and find out what kind of Institute of Education we should have, and work it out according to the context. I believe the teachers will be very happy if we have an institute of Education. It gives the feeling that teacher education is put on a high level, and I think this will give the teaching profession a sense of pride and professionalism.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I have said just now that I have second thoughts and I say it again that I still have second thoughts, because while having second thoughts we can discuss the pros and cons of the Institute. Except for the conferment of degrees, there is nothing which the T.T.C, cannot do that the Institute of Education can do. Here, I would like to pose this question to Members who are au fait with the teaching profession: of the two types of degrees, a B.A, plus a Diploma of Education and Bachelor of Education, which do they think is more attractive to the teaching profession or to those who are going for higher studies? As far as obtaining better qualifications is concerned, there is nothing to prevent non-graduate teachers from studying for an external degree, which means that together with the Certificate of Education they would be graduate-trained teachers. I would like to clarify the point about taking over the School of Education in the University of Singapore. I did not mean "taking over". I said that we would probably assume the role which the School of Education is now performing, i.e., awarding a diploma in Education. I have given this some thought, because in my mind all of us want to upgrade the quality of our teachers. But the question is whether it is best done through the Institute of Education, because it would in a way prohibit or would not give the teachers the mobility which they now have. Supposing we do set up the institute of Education on these lines, and ask students to apply. I am very doubtful whether we will have a sufficient number of them to come in, spend three year~ in the Institute, come out with a B.Ed, degree, and be stuck in the Education service. As against this, if they go into the University of Singapore, take a BA, degree in three years, then get into the T.T.C, to do a one year's course for a Diploma of Education, they will have greater mobility. And knowing how calculating and how materialistic the people of Singapore are, I have my doubts whether the Institute of Education will attract the number of students that we want. As it is now, we are finding great difficulty in attracting people to the teaching service. As for upgrading the teaching scale, I think there is nothing which the T.T.C, cannot do except, as I have said, to confer degrees, and that may be possible later on. We will see whether it is worth while to confer this degree. 7.00 p.m. I must say that I am swayed not only by the opinion of the English authority that I have quoted - there are, in fact, about six or seven other authorities who are very critical of the degree of Bachelor of Education conferred in England - but I am also swayed by the circumstances which we are now in. If I remember rightly, the Institute of Education was conceived at a time when we had a surplus of teachers. Therefore, the thinking then was that we could bring these teachers into the Institute and make them specialise in teaching. Another point of view, with which the Member for Katong will agree, is that we must not only teach the pedagogic aspect of the profession but also the subjects in which they want to teach. In other words, we give them education in the subjects in which they want to teach. If we just make them specialise in the professional aspect, will we be turning out the kind of teachers we want? We have taken all these matters into consideration. A better course of action now will be to improve the standard of lecturing in the T.T.C, and gradually build up a professional corps of lecturers in education who will have an international standing. If by that time we feel that it is really necessary to confer a degree in Bachelor of Education, a degree in Master of Education or a Doctorate degree in education, it is not too late to do it. But at the moment we should go in more for consolidation of existing practice. Now, to answer the Member for Jurong. There will, of course, be regular revision of the syllabus and curriculum in the T.T.C, to see that quality is being maintained. The Member for Paya Lebar has levelled a very sweeping criticism not only at the teaching service but also at the T.T.C. Let me take up that point first. He has not much good to say about the T.T.C. Everything there is wrong! I cannot agree with him on this. If the T.T.C, had not been doing a good job, we would not have been able to expand the educational service as much as we have done. We would not have been able within ten years to offer every child of school-going age a place in school in any language stream which his parents may choose for him. Nor would we be getting the kind of results we are getting both in the Cambridge Higher School Certificate and the School Certificate. I agree that there are some shortcomings, but they are not of such magnitude as he has described them. We will try to plug any loopholes whenever possible and we will try to make improvements where needed. To come now to his other point that there has been unfairness in giving monetary rewards to those who have been given special training. Here again, he has probably not examined the cases carefully, because it would be very stupid if we were unfair in the granting of rewards. That would only bring discontent. It is not our policy to cause discontent by being unfair in implementing policies in the Ministry of Education. The Member for Paya Lebar implies that teachers lack dedication. This is a very sweeping statement because he cannot generalise on the basis of a few teachers. It is not fair to the majority of them,

The Minister has half a minute more.

The good results achieved in the education service are largely due to their dedication.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to clarify one point. I was referring just now to the lectures in the T.T.C. Trainee teachers in the T.T.C, do not receive training in professional ethics. I am not saying that the teachers are not responsible. They are responsible and they have been doing their job well.

Sir, if the T.T.C, has not inculcated a sense of dedication in the present teachers, where then have they got it from? Obviously there must have been some inculcation of the spirit of dedication in them when they were in the T.T.C. As a result of that, we are now having dedicated teachers who are doing their work well.

(In Mandarin): Those who are responsible will remain so. For example, the Parliamentary Secretary sitting opposite was a teacher. However, he has left the teaching profession because he did not receive training in professional ethics in the T.T.C.

The Member for Paya Lebar is referring to a particular Member?

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I have tried to be humble and silent. However, my interest has been aroused and I wish to say a few words. The Member for Paya Lebar has said that the T.T.C, has not inculcated a sense of professional ethics in the teachers. I can understand him when he says that the teaching of professional ethics is lacking in the T.T.C. However, he has also said that the teachers, after their training in the T.T.C., have proved to be adequate in professional ethics. Since they are already adequate in professional ethics, why is he complaining about the lack of training in professional ethics in the T.T.C.? We cannot adopt a critical attitude towards the T.T.C., because these trainees have not shown to be inadequate. This goes to show that the trainees have benefited from their training in the T.T.C. I think his criticism is rather unnecessary. If these teachers already display professional ethics, what else does the Member expect from them? On the question of the establishment of an Institute of Education, the Minister is going to reconsider the question and I think his decision should be supported. Although I have not had long experience in teaching, I do know something about it. I have some ideas about teaching. On the question of promotion for those in the teaching service, I believe that Members will agree with me that education is a process of advancement. The most important factor is that the teacher must understand the subject he is supposed to teach. For example, if he does not know how to teach history and he is not familiar with this subject, how can he teach it? There used to be a Department of Education in Nanyang University in which many subjects were taught, for instance, the concept of education, teaching methods, the history of teaching in Western countries and other subjects. I studied some of them in my university days. However, after the reorganisation of Nanyang University, the Department of Education was abolished. I think there must have been some reason for its abolition. When a student selects a subject for study in the university, he will select one which holds out good prospects. He must consider what he is going to do after graduation. Students who study Geography can teach that subject after they have graduated. Those who have studied Chinese can teach the Chinese language and literature after graduation. However, graduates in education are not going to teach education because the whole process of teaching is education. Education is not a narrow field. As such, it is not a subject of study in schools. Therefore, graduates from the Department of Education have no scope for employment. The important thing is what they have learnt and not the degree that they have obtained. Mr Speaker, Sir, before we take in all the subjects relating to education, or abolish the present system, we have to consider whether it is really necessary to establish an Institute of Education as against the present system. In fact, at the present moment there is still a Department of Education in the University of Singapore. If we wish to establish an Institute of Education as originally planned, there may be a danger of duplication. This is a matter which requires second thoughts. With regard to the contents of education, including the merits and demerits, these are matters on which I have received divergent views from various quarters. We should not be obsessed with the defects in the T.T.C. The T.T.C, itself is run by the staff and the principal of the T.T.C. The people who are concerned with the management of the T.T.C, are the Teachers' Unions and the teachers themselves. They are part and parcel of the T.T.C, tradition. They constitute the spirit and tradition of the T.T.C. If there are any shortcomings in the T.T.C., these will be reflected on the teachers themselves. In view of what I have said, I believe the leader of the Teachers' Union is not quite right in making such an accusation against the T.T.C. In fact, in the past, the Teachers' Training College conducted many activities which were necessary under the circumstances. For example, there were courses on the methods of teaching, the principles of education and other such subjects. 7.15 p.m. They were doing what was necessary to inculcate the concept of methodology in the trainee teachers. After some time they would be able to understand the theories and principles of education. Furthermore, there are other practical aspects which require further development and these must be carried out by the teachers themselves in actual teaching work. This is not the kind of work that the T.T.C, or the Institute of Education can do within a short space of two or three years. The teachers themselves must learn while they are teaching. So teaching must also go with learning. As the Chinese saying has it, you must learn and teach at the same time. This is a very important aspect that the teachers who are Members of this House must take note of. I am sure they will agree with me on this point. Mr Speaker, Sir, there are certain subjects in the T.T.C, which will be of help to our colleagues in the teaching profession. Perhaps during their days in the T.T.C., they were concentrating too much on certain subjects like Geography or Chemistry and did not devote sufficient time to the educational aspects, how to teach, for example. They did not do enough research or study in the methods of teaching and principles of education except to devote their time and energy to subject study. There are historical aspects of education which should be reviewed, e.g, the study of reports on educational development in Singapore. Many people have a collection of such reports. But nobody has made a systematic study of them.

Mr Lim, time is up. Mr Conceicao.

Mr Speaker, Sir, if I may be allowed to speak briefly on this question of ethics. I am very well acquainted with a very reverend gentleman at the Teachers' Training College. My experience has been that when I call on him to speak on certain matters sometimes connected with education, I have to fight shy of the topic of ethics because he is obsessed with this particular subject. In view of that, I feel that the ethical development of our budding teachers is in good hands. The question of ethics is also a question of the continuing development of the teacher which is one of the responsibilities of professional organisations. 1 would like to refer, if I may, to the question which the Minister has asked just now, whether a teacher would prefer a B.A, degree plus a Diploma in Education or only a B.Ed, degree. Personally I would have no hesitation whatsoever in saying that certainly a teacher would prefer a B.A. degree plus a Diploma in Education. That is what I have too. I left the teaching profession temporarily in order to equip myself with an additional higher qualification. But will the Ministry consider giving the same opportunities to serving officers that I had when I had the opportunity to go to the University to get a degree? Perhaps some serious thought could be given to this matter, because I think there are two benefits in bursaries and scholarships being given to serving teachers. One of them is that the teachers certainly improve themselves. The other is the presence of so-called mature students in the University. Certainly no one can disagree with the fact that the presence of people who come from the work situation into the University adds a new and more mature dimension to the situation in the University. Another solution to this problem -I may be touching on rather delicate ground here - is for our policy makers to think seriously of the possibility of providing opportunities for teachers and others to prepare part-time for University qualifications. At the last seminar on modernisation which was organised by the Singapore Teachers' Union, this question was brought up again and again. I think that serious attention should be given to this problem, as I have said, by our policy makers. If I may voice my opinion as an adult educator, I would say that in Singapore we are imaginative enough to be able to seek ways and means of making such a provision without incurring too much financial expense.

Mr Speaker, Sir, we have had a very professional discussion, and being the only layman around, I am most grateful to the Members who stood up to speak on education. I am glad that the Member for Katong agrees that, given the choice, most people would go for a B.A, degree plus a Diploma in Education. That is one of the reasons which make me hesitate whether we should set up the institute of Education and whether we would have enough students wanting to join the Institute. The point the Member for Katong brought forth is that opportunities should be made available for teachers to qualify for degrees. I think there are now avenues for them to do so by taking an external degree or degrees. Whether it can be done locally or not will depend very much on the University of Singapore, and whether they would allow such extramural studies to be conducted in the University itself. This is a question which the University authorities should start to think about, and whether facilities should be made available. Once they are made available, the problem of having more avenues for teachers to upgrade their skills and qualifications would be temporarily solved. But in the meanwhile, I have doubts whether we should proceed with the Institute of Education.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1251. I would like to take this opportunity to make a very brief and passing reference to the Educational Television Service. I had occasion recently to watch an E.T.V, programme. This was designed to illustrate one of Charles Dickens' stories. I was rather surprised to see on the programme the depiction of a Yorkshire countryside with plenty of snow and a Victorian carriage passing through the scene. One swallow does not make a summer, Sir. But I do think that we should not take it for granted that our children understand references to an entirely foreign environment, and that it would be better for us to take care that we do not just include these references without first explaining what they are.

Mr Speaker. Sir, here again is another problem which we face, being a nation of two million people and using all the modern aids we have in educating our young people. It would be ideal, of course, if we could project on E.T.V, a series of films which are made in Singapore showing scenes of Singapore. But making films is very costly. Besides the cost of the films, we must also have the expertise, which is not easily acquired nor is it latent in a lot of people here. As I have said, it would be ideal if we could do that. Unfortunately, we cannot. We are doing the best we can. We have limited resources and we have a limited E.T.V, audience. I am glad that the Member for Katong did say that one swallow does not make a summer. There are many other series of telecasts on E.T.V, where the films are made locally. In this instance, I am sure that when a strange scene like a Yorkshire countryside is projected on the screen during. E.T.V, time, the teachers are supplied with notes of explanations so that the students, looking at it, will know and try to understand what is happening elsewhere. I would like to repeat that it would be ideal if everything could be done locally. But it just cannot be. Moreover, since it is from one of Charles Dickens' stories it would be a dramatic story and students who read his books are probably given the background information so that if they have a command of the language and have a good teacher and a vivid imagination, they would see the story come to life.

Sir, I thank the Minister for his reply and 1 beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1281. Sir, when we established the National Junior College two years ago, we selected the best students in our country to be educated there. We hoped that the cream of our youth would be able to put up an outstanding performance under the guidance of the teachers in the National Junior College. However, today we are sadly disappointed by the fruitless efforts. When the results for the Higher School Certificate were announced, a number of people who arc concerned with education were dissatisfied with the results. The percentage o passes for these students, who were supposed to be the cream of the lot was 93 in the Chinese stream and only 83 in the English stream. This has taken us by surprise. Sir, the Minister may defend the National Junior College and its teachers by saying that the results were the best among all the schools in Singapore. But I would like to remind him that the selection of students for the Junior College is very strict. This is a matter of common knowledge. The students who apply for admission to the College all performed very well in either the Secondary Four examination or the Cambridge School Certificate examination with an aggregate of less than 12 points. Only students with such excellent results can be admitted to the College. Undoubtedly, they were among the best of our students. The equipment and facilities at the College are excellent. They had a quiet environment in which to study. In fact, we can say that they had nothing but the best of everything, so that it is not expecting too much if they secured very good results. It should be a matter of course for them to perform very well in the H.S.C, examination. Sir, after studying in the National Junior College for two years, their percentage of passes was only 83 per cent in the English stream. 7.30 p.m. Two years ago when these students were selected for admission to the National Junior College, their parents were very proud of them. Even their friends and relatives held them in high regard. If we look at those who have failed in the H.S.C, examination, we feel both surprised and sorry for them, especially their parents. Those of us who are concerned with the cause of education will also feel sorry for them. Mr Speaker, Sir, a famous philosopher in China, Lao Tze, in one of his famous classics called Tao Ter Chin, said that difficult things are meant to complement the easy ones. The long is meant to be compared with the short. This is a universal truth. In fact, without comparison one cannot see the difference between the difficult and the easy, and between the long and the short. It is only by comparison that we begin to see the difference between them. All the secondary schools in Singapore, with the exception of the National Junior College, have received a directive from the Ministry of Education which says that for admission to Pre-University classes, the aggregate for Arts students must not be more than 24 points, and for Science students must not be more than 25 points. All those who satisfy these conditions should be admitted if there are vacancies. Although the standards of the students are uneven, all of them who satisfy these conditions must be admitted. One could say that it is like pulling a cow up a tree. Secondary schools in Singapore do not often have the facilities and the environment anywhere comparable to those of the National Junior College. They also have half-day sessions only, but their pass rate has been anything from 50 per cent to 90 per cent. The National Junior College has an excellent environment for study, longer hours of study, and the best student potential, but we regret to note that the results have not been satisfactory. The students have not been trying their best. I think the principal should be primarily responsible for his duty in the planning, guidance and encouragement of the students. Very often we hear about meetings held by associations and societies. When a new committee is coming in to replace the old one, they pay compliments to the outgoing president or chairman, and praise his qualities of leadership. We can see how important leadership is. The National Junior College possesses so many excellent conditions. It is not an excessive demand to expect that the students would perform extremely well. It is out of the warmness of our hearts that we expect them to do well. We cannot therefore give credit to the principal of the College for the way he is handling it. I would like to mention another point, and that is that the principal in question has written a letter of recommendation asking a certain secondary school to admit a particular student into his Pre-U class, although he knew very well that the student concerned did not possess the minimum requirements specified by the Ministry of Education. This is most puzzling. I do not know whether to laugh or cry; whether he meant this as a joke or whether he was not aware of the policy of the Ministry. How can we expect him, in such circumstances, to contribute in any way towards the cause of education and towards our country?

Mr Speaker, I do not know whether to laugh or cry after listening to the Member for Paya Lebar. He is an educationalist and a very voluble critic of the educational system. Having taught in schools, he must be aware that passing an examination does not solely depend on the principal or the teacher; it also depends on the students themselves. During the difficult age of between 16 and 19 years, a lot of things can happen. So if the students fail, surely the blame does not lie solely with the principal or the teacher. There are many extraneous factors. I expect him, as an educationalist, to understand that point. He is also a very difficult man to please. Did he expect a 100 per cent pass in the H.S.C, examination for the Junior College students? Of course, the National Junior College is there not only to inculcate knowledge in the students, but also leadership qualities. May I inform him that leadership qualities do not depend on passing examinations only. I have known a lot of people with First-class honours degrees who do not do as well when they come to leading a team as people who have just a Third-class honours degree. So leadership does not depend on just the ability to swot over facts. There are other intangible qualities which a leader requires. I would like to disabuse him of another piece of false information which he may have gathered, and that is that two years ago the best students were taken into the National Junior College. They were the best only in the sense that they were the best among those who applied. So you cannot say that they were the best from all over Singapore, those with five or six distinctions. Even granted that if we take the best, we cannot expect a 100 per cent pass. As I say, at the age of between 16 years and 19 years, the boys and the girls pass through quite a lot of changes physically and mentally, and passing examinations depends not only on the principal and the teacher, but also a lot on the home surroundings and on the students themselves.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, before I withdraw my amendment, I would like to point out to the Minister that if he says examinations are not important, I would like the examination system abolished so that all students can go into secondary schools, and secondary four pupils can go into Pre-U classes. They would have a greater advantage. May I express another point? When the H.S.C. results were announced, the National Junior College said that the students who were admitted to it had an aggregate of not more than 12 points. They were all Grade One holders. However, since the Minister has replied to my questions, I beg leave to withdraw.

Mr Speaker, Sir, can I clarify?

All right, go ahead, Mr Lim.

I would like to clarify one point. I never said that examinations are not important. I only said you should not place too much importance on examinations. The Member has placed too much importance on the examination system. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1401. Sir, in moving this amendment, allow me to ask the Minister certain questions. Technical education has been promoted in Singapore and has been in existence for two years. I would like to ask the Minister whether its progress has been satisfactory. The second question is about the workshops in our schools. How many schools have their own workshops; and how many centralised workshops are there in Singapore? Are these workshops adequate to accommodate the technical students? Another matter is this: under the vote for subhead 1435 I see that there is only provision for one Assistant Inspector of Schools. If it is so important to have technical education, why is there a vote for only one Assistant Inspector of Schools? Does it mean that it is not necessary to supervise these school workshops? Is the provision sufficient for this purpose? Another question is the in-service graduate teachers who are being trained at the moment as technical teachers. During the day they have to teach in school and in the evening they have to go for training. They complain that the lessons are rather burdensome. Certain courses or lessons are not quite suitable. I would like to ask the Minister whether these allegations are really true. Another point is that although technical education has been implemented for two years, parents at large still do not understand what it is. So, many are not willing to send their children to receive technical education. Is the Minister prepared to launch some sort of publicity campaign to enable the parents to understand the true meaning of technical education? 7.45 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I wish to thank the Member for Jurong for his observations on technical education, and for affording me the opportunity to answer and clarify a few points, lest the significance of the frequent participation of the Parliamentary Secretary and the Political Secretary to the Minister for Home Affairs and my constant silence during the debate may be misinterpreted! Mr Speaker, Sir, since its establishment two years ago, we are fairly satisfied with the progress made by the Technical Education Department. Originally our target was to have by 1975 one in every three secondary school leavers vocationally biased. But now I think we will achieve that target by 1973. There are not enough places available for all those who want it, but the capacity is sufficient to meet this target. We have some 16,000 places in secondary technical schools and 8,000 in the vocational institutes for technical education. We do not wish to train more students than necessary in this respect, because such graduate is less flexible than that in the general education stream. With respect to the facilities which the Member for Jurong has asked for, if I recall correctly, we have some 33 units of centralised workshops, about 30 schools with their own workshops, and nine vocational institutes. The Member has also referred to the provision of only one Inspector of Schools for the entire Technical Education Department. I am afraid there is some confusion here, and I wish to take this opportunity to clarify. This particular Inspector of Schools is actually provided for the Technical Education Department for the Vocational Guidance Unit. The professional aspects of the workshops and the responsibility for inspection are, in fact, undertaken by the Superintendent and the Assistant Superintendent. In the General Education Department, however, the system is slightly different. Here, the work, with respect to inspection of teachers, planning of curricula, and drawing up the equipment requirements, is undertaken by the Superintendent and Assistant Superintendent, and the operational and administrative duties are undertaken by the Assistant Training Officer. With that clarification, Sir, if you will look under subheads 1433, 1434, 1443 and 1444, you will find that there is a total of 20 Superintendents and Assistant Superintendents and, under subheads 1436 and 1445, a total of eight Assistant Training Officers. This compares very favourably with the 40 Specialist Inspectors under the General Education Department. Comparing the student population with the great variety of subjects that are available in the General Education Department, I think we have done fairly well. Of course, we would like to have more such posts if we can. The next point raised by the Member for Jurong concerns the possible reduction of work-load for the teachers under training. I think he was referring to those technical teachers who have already been trained in one trade, and are now under training for a second trade. Sir, I believe all of them are relieved from extra-curricular activities. The time required for technical training is roughly three to six hours per week, and this is about the same as that for the E.C.A. load. However, if the Member has any specific instance where a teacher under technical training is not relieved of his E.C.A.-load, or if he feels there is a certain unfairness, will he let me know and we will look into it to rectify the situation? The final point raised by him concerns public relations. In fact, the Ministry is thinking of injecting professionalism in this respect. We are going to engage one expert on public relations under the United Nations Development Programme project, known as Projects Supports Communication which undertakes public relations work in order to "sell" the department to the public.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am rather interested to hear that the Ministry of Education is going to engage an expert. Is he a foreign expert, Sir?

Sir, the post will be created under the U.N.D.P, project, and the appointee may be a local or a foreign expert.

Then may I suggest that we get somebody who understands the local community before he goes out on a public relations campaign? Since I have the opportunity now, Sir, may I also suggest that we make thorough use of the community centres to put across this idea, and, if necessary, even to use colloquial dialects, like Hokkien and Cantonese, besides the official languages?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I notice that there is only one notice of amendment with regard to technical education. I think this is because there is so much confusion in the Technical Education Department that even Members of Parliament do not know where to start. Or it could be due to the fact that the Department is very well run! But I take it that it is fairly well run. My point is this. I think there is too much preferential treatment, so to speak, being given to the Technical Education Department as against the General Education Department. Even the quota of teachers for technical education is more than that for general education. There is also poaching of teachers from the General Education Department, and together with the transfer of teachers to the Technical Education Department, it has resulted in a shortage of teachers in the General Education Department. The question I want to ask is this: in the light of the limited resources and the difficulty of getting suitable teachers, could there not be some kind of check to prevent this over-emphasis that is being given to technical education, because all this is at the expense of general education? I think that whenever the Education Ministry embarks on any particular project, it overdoes things a bit.

Mr Speaker, Sir, all those suggestions raised by the Member for Katong will be taken into consideration when we launch this Projects Supports Communication. With regard to the points raised by the Member for Moulmein, first of all, it is not quite true to say that the quota of teachers for the Technical Education Department is more than that for the General Education Department, and therefore their teachers are better off. In fact, they are not; because those teaching in the workshops have a much heavier load than those teaching in the classrooms. Unfortunately, when the Technical Education Department started, we had to get the teachers, and we just could not grab anyone from the street and make him a technical teacher. The obvious answer was to retrain teachers from the General Education Department. With regard to the point that we are developing technical education at the expense of general education, it is not so, Mr Speaker, Sir. There is constant liaison between the two departments regarding staffing, and we always ensure that the Technical Education Department will not develop at the expense of the General Education Department. In fact, the Ministry is looking into the possibility of integrating the two departments into one.

(In Mandarin): Sir, I thank the Minister of State for his detailed explanation, and I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0801 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2109. Sir, allow me to discuss some questions relating to Nanyang University under this amendment, We know that Nanyang University was established at a time when there was a pressing need to imbue the people with the spirit of nation building. Like other institutions of higher learning, the financial position of Nanyang University was very difficult in its initial stages. The main source of financial support came from the rank and file of the people of Singapore. Thus the development of Nanyang University has been made under conditions of financial paucity. Sir, since its reorganisation, the Government has undoubtedly given great financial assistance to Nanyang University; for instance, the building of a library, the provision of annually recurrent expenditure and equipment, and the proposed building of a sports complex. All this is concrete evidence to show that Government is lending great support to Nanyang University. Furthermore, a few years ago, the Government has also given recognition to Nanyang University degrees, thus enhancing the status of the University and its graduates. However, Sir, Nanyang University does not have a long history behind it. In its initial stages it has to depend on financial as well as human resources to meet its various requirements. But in view of the greater development programmes ahead, the University needs more financial assistance. Sir, I endorse whatever programmes the University has to contribute to the development of society and to nation building. I must also pay tribute to those people who have stoutly supported and sponsored Nanyang University, and to those who have been running around raising funds for the University to build a college of research, a commercial college, and a students' hostel, etc. Sir, on the grounds of supporting the idea of cultivating the people of Singapore, I hope the Government will lend greater financial support to the further development of Nanyang University. I believe it will be an asset to Singapore if our universities can turn out all the people that our country needs. And i hope that Nanyang University will carefully make use of the funds donated to it, because ultimately these funds come from the taxpayers. I cannot understand why many people still have the pro-foreign thinking with regard to tutorial staff. They think that "scholars" recruited from abroad must be very good. I am not against recruiting genuine scholars. However, I regret to note that recently certain unlearned so-called foreign "scholars" have come to our higher institutions of learning to make a living, and they are highly paid. This only results in a waste of the taxpayers' money, and the students will suffer. I want to stress that we must encourage more local people to fill the key posts in the Universities because only they have a sense of national consciousness and loyalty and thereby they can really contribute their best to the country. Sir, Nanyang University should continue to be a national university with the special characteristic that its graduates are bilingual. We must not allow it to be made into a non-Chinese language university, because this will disappoint many people. I hope the Minister will caution the University authorities about this. Mr Lim Kim San rose -

You have one minute, Mr Lim.

Yes, Sir,I can assure the Member for Jurong that it is the policy of the Government to see that Nanyang University takes its rightful place as another institution of higher education in Singapore. I will not enlarge on this point, as I have only one minute left. I shall come directly to the question which the Member has asked, and that is, the academic qualifications or the qualities of the staff appointed to Nanyang University. May I clarify that appointments of academic and non-academic staff to the University are not made by the Ministry of Education, but by the Establishment Committee of the Council of Nanyang University of which the chairman is the Vice-Chancellor of the University. And, of course, there are two Government representatives who are given directives to see that not only expatriates but also local staff are fully qualified before they are appointed. Here again, may I stress that it is not possible to fill all the posts, nor is it desirable to fill the posts either in Nanyang University or in the University of Singapore with purely local staff. 8.00 p.m.

Order. Guillotine time. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Estimates of Expenditure for the financial year 1st April, 1971, to 31 March, 1972, and ask leave to sit again on Monday, 22nd March, 1971.

So be it.

Resolved, "That Parliament do now adjourn."- [Mr Lim Kim San]. Adjourned accordingly at One minute past Eight o'clock p.m. to Monday, 22nd March, 1971. COST OF LIVING INDEX (Cols 971 - 972)