Hansard, 1978-03-16

Order read for resumed consideration in Committee of Supply [3rd Allotted Day].

Head N (cont) - Resumption of Debate on Question [15th March, 1978], "That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by $10 in respect of item 8301 of Subhead Code NA-01 of the Development Estimates." - [Dr Ong Leong Boon]. Question again proposed.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the hon. Member for Kim Seng has requested information on the physical development of Kent Ridge Hospital. Kent Ridge Hospital has been planned for construction in two phases as a general hospital with facilities for clinical teaching. A total of 752 beds will be provided when the project is completed. The planning and design work for the hospital was completed in April 1977. Architectural, mechanical, electrical, structural, quantity surveying and site clearance work are in progress. Barring any unforeseen delays, it is expected that major earthworks will commence in the second quarter and piling in the third quarter of this year. The building for Phase I is expected to commence in January 1979 and to be completed in January 1983. The facilities to be completed under Phase I will include 485 beds for medicine, surgery and orthopaedics for principal diagnostic treatment, academic departments, area for administration, the central plant and areas for supportive services such as pharmacy, kitchen, central sterile supplies department, linen, etc. The building for Phase II is scheduled to commence in July 1982 and expected to be completed in July 1985. The facilities for Phase II will include 267 beds for paediatrics, ENT, obstetrics and gynaecology, the departments for social medicine and public health, the remainder of the academic offices, laboratories and the dental faculty. The total cost of the project is estimated to be $144,203,150. The estimated cost for Phase I is $115,313,925. The estimated cost for Phase II is $28,889,225.

Sir, from the data provided by the Senior Minister of State for National Development, it would appear that the Hospital will not be ready for service until 1983. And for Phase II, it will probably be 1985. Does it mean, therefore, that the present medical school will be shifted to the new hospital grounds in phases only after 1983? Secondly, would the facilities in the now hospital be as adequate and up to-date as the facilities at present found at the Singapore General Hospital?

Sir, I presume that the standard of the facilities would be at least equivalent, if not better than the facilities at the Singapore General Hospital. The reason is that there are two Planning committees for the Kent Ridge project. One Planning committee is under the Chairmanship of the Director of Medical Services with a number of medical experts. Another Executive Planning committee is under Professor Tock with a number of professors from the various departments. As far as the facilities are concerned, I assume that they will be up to the standard. With regard to the medical school, I understand that it is not the intention to have teaching facilities that will take over the entire existing teaching facilities at the Singapore General Hospital. I understand that most hospitals will have some form of teaching facilities. Perhaps the entire University medical department may be shifted to the new hospital.

Sir, in the Senior Minister of State's reply, I notice that two operative words were used. One is that he "presumes" facilities will be adequate. I do not think it is satisfactory for him to say "I presume" because if he presumes, then I may assume. Secondly, the Senior Minister of State also said that because of the presence of professors on the Planning committees, therefore he assumes that the facilities will be adequate. We know that a hospital, besides service vocations, should also have a commitment for research work. We know that much of the decision depends on the planning and perhaps the cooperation of the Ministry of Finance. Can we have more definite answers rather than using words like "presume" and "assume"?

Sir, the Ministry of National Development is responsible for the planning and implementation of the project. As for the internal facilities like medical equipment and staff, I think that could best be answered by the Minister for Health because we are in no position to answer, I therefore presume or I can even assume that since there are medical experts on the relevant committees, they will get the best of facilities that are available in 1985 for the new hospital.

Sir, in spite of the "assumes" and "presumes", I take it that it is outside the Senior Minister of State's jurisdiction to really give a satisfactory reply in that respect. I think he has given a good answer, and I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by $10 in respect of item 1210 of Subhead Code NC-01 of the Main Estimates. I am pleased to note that after having raised an issue last year about an accident prone area at the deadly bend around the Kampong Bahru/Kampong Lama Roads, an immediate improvement has been carried out by the Department concerned by erecting a metal barrier along the bend. This barrier has definitely prevented further accidents in that area which is evident as the barrier is damaged every now and then and is replaced. Anyway, this is the best that the Department could do at the moment. Sir, on the question of road improvements in my constituency, that stretch of Keppel Road near Customs House to Anson Road is frequently congested with traffic. This is because of the traffic signals at the closely spaced road junctions in the area. This stretch of the road is part of a key mad for traffic from the city to the western sector of the island and also vice versa. Even the traffic lights do not seem to be synchronised. It is true that road widening is taking place at the moment to improve the flow of traffic. In the near future, a road would be constructed from Tanjong Rhu passing through the reclaimed land and is expected to be joined to this already congested road. And because of the present closely spaced traffic lights, the traffic snarl may still exist. My purpose in raising this issue is that in the long term planning, the roads in this area like Cantonment Road, Keppel Road, Tanjong Pagar Road, Anson Road and all the other subsidiary roads should be reviewed carefully. Further improvements should be carried out so that there will be less traffic lights and interruption to the free flow of traffic could be avoided. Further down Anson Road near the junction of Maxwell Road, the area there is also very complicated both for motorists and pedestrians. The many roads meeting at that point result in frequent traffic jams during peak periods. Because of the new law on jaywalking, many pedestrians find it very confusing when commuting in this area. Sir, the traffic-congestion problem is not peculiar only in my constituency. There are also other areas in the city where such problem exists. In order to resolve the traffic congestion problem, the Ministry in its long-term planning should take my views into consideration.

Sir, the Member for Anson has commented on two salient points; (1) traffic jams occur frequently along the stretch of road from Keppel Road to Anson Road, and (2) the traffic lights do not synchronise at this stretch. The traffic jams that occur along this stretch of road are due to the narrow width of the road and also to the three closely spaced road junctions that the Member has mentioned, namely, the Cantonment, Tanjong Pagar and Anson Roads. This section of Keppel Road is presently being widened and road works are expected to be completed in about four months' time. With regard to the traffic lights, Keppel Road at the moment carries traffic in both directions and, therefore, it will not be possible to provide progressive green phases at the signalised junctions for both directions of traffic. This progressive green phase can only be provided in one direction. However, new signal controllers will be installed in conjunction with the proposed computerised traffic signal control system which is expected to be commissioned around the end of 1979 or 1980. The other area of congestion along Anson Road is due to the narrow section of Anson Road between Parsi Road and Keppel Road which also carries two directional traffic. Shenton Way at the moment is being extended to connect with Keppel Road. When completed, Shenton Way and Anson Road will be turned into a one-way pair, thus resolving the present congestion along this stretch of Anson Road. 2.45 p.m. The traffic signals along Keppel Road/Anson Road and Shenton Way will incorporate the red man/green man signals. Hopefully they will help to facilitate pedestrian movement. We will take up his suggestion and liaise with the Traffic Police or the Ministry of Home Affairs to look into other areas which cause difficulties to pedestrians crossing road junctions.

Sir, in view of the Minister's reply, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

( In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead Code NC-01 of the Main Estimates. Sir, the PWD has contributed a lot to the task of road building and public communication network, and the city has become cleaner and modernised, compatible with other metropolis. The PWD has constructed walkways along the pavements of shops in the city and laid them with good quality tiles. These places have been renovated so as to give a pleasing atmosphere to pedestrians and visitors to these thoroughfares. Undoubtedly, this beautification programme has been well received by the people, and praised by tourists. I feel that the programme should be extended to other areas. For this reason, I would request the Minister to consider constructing the same public walkways along Bah Tan Road in Sembawang. There are two primary schools and one secondary school in this area, with several thousand pupils of tender age. If there are walkways along this road, they will provide safe passage for the children and facilitate their commuting from one side of the road to the other. Secondly, I would like to ask the Minister when will the widening of the road stretching from Thomson Road to Sembawang Road be completed. And how will the resettlement of the residents and shopkeepers affected by the widening of roads in Sembawang be dealt with? I would like to ask the Minister to consider their case sympathetically, particularly in giving them rental concessions to minimise their hardship.

Mr Teong, you are talking about resettlement. That topic is not in the discussion on this amendment.

( In Mandarin): Sir, although it has no direct bearing, it is indirectly connected with the topic under discussion, as the Departments concerned are closely inter-related. I would like the Department concerned to alleviate the hardship of those affected by the widening of roads. Thirdly, I would like to ask the Minister about the new road in Naval Base, stretching from Admiralty Road to Marsiling Road. According to my understanding, work on this new road has been going on for more than two years. There seems to be a delay in the construction of the road. Therefore, the residents in Marsiling and Sembawang are anxious that this mad is completed as soon as possible as it would ease their transport problems.

Sir, I would like to assure the Member for Sembawang that there is a comprehensive programme for walkways in the urban and suburban areas. As to his request for standards of walkways similar to those at Shenton Way, I cannot see the possibility of his request being granted. Perhaps he is requesting for footpaths rather than walkways. If that is so, it can be considered and I would raise this matter with the Urban and Rural Services Committee. With regard to his wanting to know more about the widening of Upper Thomson Road and Sembawang Road, I can inform him that this is being carried out in three stages. The section of Upper Thomson Road from Sembawang Hill Circus to Mandai Road is under construction and is expected to be completed at the end of the year. The next section of Sembawang Road, from Mandai Road to Jalan Sembawang Kechil, is already completed. For the final section, subject to resettlement and clearance of affected stretches on time, tenders for the widening of Sembawang Road, from Jalan Sembawang Kechil to Admiralty Road, is scheduled to be called in May this year and we hope to complete it by early 1980. I can assure the Member that fair compensation and resettlement benefits will be given to those affected by resettlement, provided they are genuine resettlement cases. On his third query about the situation of the roadworks from Admiralty Road to Marsiling Road, there are a few roads connecting these two main roads. Three of them, namely, Riverside Road, Marsiling Lane and Marsiling Drive, are already completed. The remaining link is the proposed Woodlands Centre Road. This is a major road which would cross four existing trunk water mains. The construction of this stretch of road has to be planned in conjunction with the protection of these water mains. Therefore, it cannot be completed earlier than 1980.

( In Mandarin): Sir, the Senior Minister of State's reply is quite satisfactory, and I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Ivan Baptist: That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by $10 in respect of item 1210 of Subhead Code NC-03 of the Main Estimates.

Mr Baptist is not here. Mr Ahmad Haleem, amendment No. (7).

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead Code N C-04 of the Main Estimates. Last year Singapore saw a disturbing phenomenon. After three days of torrential rain our clean and green city was turned into a great puddle. We have all heard the explanation given to this House by the Hon. Senior Minister of State that the rapid road deterioration was caused by diesel spillage. Now, if this is the sole reason, then we can expect the problem to be a perennial one. Last year for the first time as far as I can remember there was such large scale deterioration and therefore it is highly improbable that diesel spillage alone was the cause. From observations made at the time, it was noted that the deterioration did not necessarily occur in places where there had been heavy diesel spillage or that the roads were necessarily old. I wonder if the PWD had carried out a survey to ascertain whether most, if not all, of the deteriorated roads were the work of one or perhaps two contractors and whether there was proper control of the quality of materials and workmanship. Would the Hon. Minister please tell the House what steps have been taken to ensure that there will not be a repetition of the occurrence? It is bad enough to see a few patches of road deteriorating through wear and tear, but to see the city roads turned into a succession of puddles almost overnight is certainly intolerable.

Sir, the Member for Telok Blangah could be referring to the Oral Answer given to the Question tabled by the Member for Thomson on 31st January, 1978. In the Oral Answer, I have indicated that oil spillage over a period of time seems to be the main cause. I did not give the impression that it is the sole cause. I have also explained that towards the end of 1977, the weather situation was rather exceptional in that the amount of rainfall happened to be more than previous years. We have sufficient statistics to assure the Member that, as far as the expenditures on road patching for 1977, 1976 and 1975 were concerned, they were approximately the same. If he is interested, I will submit information to that effect. In other words, I am suggesting that it was nothing unusual except that towards the last few months of 1977, because of rainfall being heavier than normal, the expenditure was a little higher. However, since this is of concern to the Member for Telok Blangah as well as to a few other Members in this House, I would reiterate the stringent exercise carried out by PWD to ensure that the materials used for road surfacing are in accordance with specifications. The quality control measures taken include the following: the grading of the stone aggregate size is supervised; the bitumen content, the structural stability of the asphalt concrete, the temperature at the time of laying and the laying of the premix asphalt are also supervised. Samples of materials used at every stage are taken and sent to the PWD's laboratory for testing and analysis. If the asphalt arriving at the site is less than the minimum temperature, it is rejected. Substandard materials are also rejected. The newly laid layers are either taken off or an additional new layer of premix asphalt is added. The PWD also carries out surprise checks at the contractor's mixing plants and samples of the asphalt are sent again to the engineering laboratory for a test. So far, the tests carried out indicate that the materials comply with the PWD specification. Incidentally, the number of contractors for this type of work is limited. They are normally well screened before they am allowed to tender for road projects. I have also indicated in my Oral Answer in this House at that time that more than 80% of the damage to road pavements occurred at bus stops, bus lanes or at road junctions. This is due mainly to oil spillage over a period of time and this has the effect of softening and dissolving the asphalt in the road pavement and, therefore, resulting in a loss of the binding quality. The PWD is currently looking into the use of certain additives to prevent the asphalt paving from unravelling during continuous inclement weather. Its effectiveness will have to be tested and monitored over a period of time before we can come to the conclusion that a particular additive is most effective. 3.00 p.m.

Sir, the Senior Minister of State stated that since the sums expended on road repairs have been more or less the same for the last two to three years, he therefore thinks that the roads are equally well maintained. With inflation from year to year one would expect that the same number of repairs would cost more from year to year. Can we have an assurance from him that the roads which are in need of repair are not simply left unrepaired, as implied by the same level of expenditure from year to year?

Sir, statistically it could be interpreted the other way - that due to the efficiency of the Roads Department, the cost, despite inflation, has been kept at that same level. In other words, it indicates that the number of repairs is less than in previous years. To be fair to the PWD, a general observation would indicate that our roads are, by any means, of a reasonably high standard. Our roads are in a better condition now than they were five or six years ago.

Sir, I have the highest consideration for the efficiency of the PWD. I am just wondering whether the Senior Minister of State himself has gone round to make sure that roads which are in need of repairs are being repaired. The PWD could simply be constrained by the budget.

Sir, I think it is most unfair to expect me to go round inspecting the roads. Since the Member is agreeable that the PWD is efficient, I can assure him that the present system allows for notification of any areas which need to be patched up and I think they are being done as expeditiously as it is possible.

Sir, the maintenance of the pedestrian walkways in Singapore seems to be very slack indeed. I know that the PWD is constructing very beautiful new walkways along Orchard Road, but the old walkways in East Coast Road need to be repaired badly. There are trees growing in the centre of the walkway and pedestrians have to dodge these trees while trudging down the walkway. In addition, the grass in between cement slabs has gone dry or overgrown. I have watched women with high heels walking gingerly over them and some even playing hop-scotch because they find it so difficult to trudge along the walkway. I am just wondering whether the Senior Minister of State would consider removing these hazards on pedestrian walkways and improving them in his maintenance programme i.e. those pedestrian walkways along East Coast Road and even along the NTUC building, for instance, and of course not to mention Lorong 8!

Sir, I think the Member for Potong Pasir has not got his facts right. When he talks about beautiful young ladies failing over, I think he is referring to areas where we put BG slabs. These slabs are laid at the base of trees planted in the central or suburban areas. If the Member can show me any walkway with BG slabs which cause an obstruction to pedestrians like him, I will be too happy to remove them. I am surprised he brought up the question of the walkway around the Singapore Conference Hall. The fact of the matter is this. The walkway along the Shenton Way frontage of the Singapore Conference Hall is 3.9 metres wide and it has a granulitic finish, which means it has a plain straight finish. It is in fairly good condition. On the other side of the Singapore Conference Hall, facing Maxwell Road, the walkway is 1.5 metre wide and it has a cement rendering, and it is also found to be in good condition.

Sir, I am not speaking of the condition of the cement slabs. I am talking about the cement slabs that are being divided by portions of earth where grass is supposed to grow. These portions provide a hazard, a safety hazard which I believe very few of us want to face. Maybe before the Singapore Sports Council was set up, that was the time when Singaporeans needed a little more exercise, there were no jogging tracks then, so the thought was that these walkways could be utilised as jogging tracks or for hopping from one slab to another. Now that the SSC has got sufficient jogging tracks, I am just wondering whether he could fill in those portions that are covered with earth, which are safety hazards, with cement.

Sir, I choose not to go into a debate on this particular topic because it seems that we are talking of two different things. If he is talking about slabs around trees, yes, I concede that. I even concede that if the slabs are obstructing pedestrians, I am prepared to have them removed and replace them with beautiful coloured tiles. However, if he can be more specific about his complaint, I suggest that he write to me or to the Ministry of National Development and tell us exactly where it is, and I can assure him that we will do the necessary repairs that he wants.

Sir, in view of the explanation given by the Senior Minister of State, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by $10 in respect of item 8102 of Subhead Code NC-02 of the Development Estimates*. Sir, sometime ago wide publicity was given to the Government's plan to build a Mass Rapid Transit System. Millions of dollars were voted for studies to be carried out and for subsequent developments. So far the cost of the total project amounted to $2,253,000. The estimates for 1977 was $680,000. This year the House is asked to approve only $38,950. I want to know why the provision is so low. What has happened to all the studies which were conducted previously? Are we still going ahead with the Mass Rapid Transit project? Could the Minister enlighten the House on the latest position of this project?

Sir, I just want to take this opportunity to reinforce the question which the hon. Member for Anson has asked and, that is, what is the present position with regard to the Mass Rapid Transit System. Has the Government decided one way or another to go ahead, or to drop the plan altogether? Sir, we remember very distinctly that way back in 1973, when the present Senior Minister of State for Communications was one of us in the Backbench, he used to be one of the main spokesmen on this subject. It is already five long years and lots of money have been spent. If we look at the calculations, something like $2.89 million has been spent up to-date, that is, actual expenditure for 1976 plus the estimated expenditure for 1977. We know that Phase I has concluded; so is Phase 11. But we would like to know if all preliminary studies have been concluded or, in fact, there are still shortcomings in the studies. We would also like to know whether a more comprehensive study may be necessary and what decision the Government intends to take on this matter, knowing full well that with every month of procrastination in deciding on this matter, costs will go up.

Sir, to answer the question from the hon. Member for Anson, the provision of $38,950 in the FY 78 Estimates represents the residual amount from previously approved funds which are available for the mass transit study project. The funds are required to meet miscellaneous expenditure including communication with the consultants at the World Bank on the concluding stages of the consultants' report and the World Bank review. The position is that Phase I and Phase II studies have already been completed, as mentioned by the hon. Member for Kim Seng. The latest position in regard to the Mass Transit study programme will be given by the Senior Minister of State for Communications when this subject comes up for debate later under Head O, Ministry of Communications. I hope he will get the latest position from the Senior Minister of State for Communications.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Ng Kah Ting: (9) That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by $10 in respect of item 8101 of Subhead Code NC-03 of the Development Estimates.

Amendment (9), Mr Ng Kah Ting is not speaking. Amendment (10), Mr Lai Tha Chai is not here, Mr Teo.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead Code NE-01 of the Main Estimates. Sir, today more than half of the population of Singapore are living in flats and this number is expected to increase in future. In fact, the demand for HDB flats is so great that it is not possible for the Housing and Development Board to cope with. However, with the intensification of housing development in recent years, it is reported that the number of applicants waiting for flats has been reduced considerably. It is true that the waiting list is now shorter, but the waiting time does not seem to improve except for new towns like Woodlands and Clementi. Sad to know, we are now in a position where in certain housing estates people are waiting for flats to live in, whereas in other housing estates flats are waiting for people to live in. I am sure the HDB knows about this. However, has any action been taken to remedy this unhealthy state of affairs? Perhaps it is interesting to know how the HDB decides on the number of flats to be built in each housing estate each year. Does the HDB take the choice of the people into account when deciding on housing developments? It is obvious that certain housing estates are more popular than others. Thus, to meet the demand of the people, the development programme in the less popular housing estates should be slowed down so that the limited resources can be mustered to intensify housing developments in the more popular housing estates. 3.15 p.m. It may be argued that the demand of the people could not be met in certain estates because land is limited. If this is the case, the present practice of accepting application for flats in the popular areas without limit should not be continued. Perhaps a new scheme of accepting applications for flats can be introduced. For instance, the number of flats that can be built in any estate can be estimated, using the available usable land as a guideline. The number of applications accepted in any area should be based on this estimation. If this is done, all applicants will be assured of flats in the locations of their choice if their applications are accepted. This will be better than to keep them waiting for a few years hoping to get a flat of their choice. Sir, I would also like to briefly say something about housing within the city area. Measures have been introduced to attract people to the city because it is reported that more and more people are moving out to new housing estates. However, does the HDB realise how many people are already on the waiting list for flats within the city area? Is the HDB able to satisfy the demand of these people? If not, why should more people be encouraged to apply for flats within the city area? Will it not worsen the situation and thus arouse discontentment among the people, if they have to wait for a long time before flats are allocated to them? Will the measures taken not be self-defeating, if the people become disillusioned with the Housing Board authorities?

( In Mandarin): Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, Members of this House have made a lot of criticisms on the Housing and Development Board yesterday. Today I would not like to criticise it but to praise it. The achievements of the HDB are very well known not only to the people of Singapore but also to other countries around the world. Some developing countries have even sent their representatives to Singapore to investigate and learn the administration and achievements of the HDB. During the time of serious housing shortage 10 to 20 years ago, people would be overjoyed to be able to get just a very ordinary type of premises. Over the years the HDB has built many flats to satisfy the needs of the people. There is a couplet in an ancient poem that runs like this: "To build houses in the thousands, To please the poor all over the land". But today the HDB is not only building thousands of flats but tens of thousands. It is providing cheap accommodation for the common people. With the rise in the standard of living of the people, the HDB is now building flats with larger floor areas and better quality suitable for people in the middle income group. Under the Home Ownership scheme, it has also allowed the people to buy the flats on hire purchase terms by means of CPF contributions. At the moment 60% of our population are living in HDB flats. The achievements of the HDB are something which we can all praise and be proud of. But the Minister should not be overjoyed with such achievements. Certain flaws and defects can still be found. Let me convey to the Minister some of the views of the people. First, many people living in Marsiling Estate in Sembawang, which is a new HDB housing estate have complained of certain defects in the flats. The ceiling in the kitchen and toilet do leak. A loud noise can be heard from the rubbish chute whenever somebody throws rubbish, particularly items like glass. Certain sections of the rubbish chute are broken and as a result the rubbish spills into the flats of other occupants. Obviously the construction of the rubbish chutes is not strong enough because hollow bricks have been used in the building of the flats. I hope the Minister will go round and see for himself and try to remedy the situation. The defects should be rectified otherwise the noise from the rubbish chute will disturb the neighbours in their sleep. Secondly, the repairs carried out by the HDB are too slow and are not properly done. I have received complaints about leakage of pipes and through the ceiling. If a report is made to the department concerned, the complainant will have to wait for several days before the repair is done. Meanwhile he has to bear the inconvenience of a continued leakage of the pipe and the ceiling. I hope the Minister will urge the Maintenance Department to take immediate steps to remedy the situation and, if necessary, to recruit more staff to cope with the workload. Thirdly, I would like to ask the Minister whether he is aware that there have been frequent thefts at the HDB market and cooked food hawker centre at the Marsiling housing estate. Implements and articles of trade are stolen. To protect the hawkers there, I would suggest to the Minister that security officers should be posted to the market and the hawker centre to prevent any further thefts. Fourthly, I would like to ask the Minister whether he has any plans to build residential flats and also shops in the Naval Base area in Sembawang because many people living there require such accommodation. I hope he will take steps to speed up the building of such flats there. There is a provision of over $900 million for this financial year. I hope enough funds are being set aside for such a purpose in the Sembawang Constituency. Lastly, I would like the Minister to consider whether immediate steps can be taken to set up sports and recreational facilities in Marsiling Estate, such as community centres, swimming pools, sports grounds and other such facilities for the use of the residents.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, most of the comments on the Housing and Development Board which I intended to make earlier on have been made yesterday, and I therefore do not wish to repeat them today. I shall just mention two subjects on which I hope the Hon. Minister concerned can throw some light. One is, of course, more in the nature of a suggestion. The Housing and Development Board has been paying a lot of attention, and rightly so, on the new HDB estates, to the extent that they are certainly much better built blocks of flats in terms of design, space, provision of green land, landscaping, play areas and even shopping complexes. Sir, most of us here are still Members of Parliament for the old HDB estates. I think something could be done here. I am not suggesting that the HDB has paid absolutely no attention to them. I am just seeking an assurance from the Ministry that more attention would be paid to the older estates because it is in the older estates where a lot can be done and should be done to make the living environment even better than it is today. On this count, I hope the HDB will pay more attention towards beautifying these old estates, and provide landscaping wherever possible, widen some of the roads, convert some open space into car parks and play areas. Most of us in the old estates must have read in the press with great envy when a Member of Parliament from a new estate recently suggested to his constituents that they should convert the vacant lands into gardens. This is a luxury that we can ill afford. But perhaps the HDB can help us by beautifying some of the old estates so as to make the environment more green and a better environment for gracious living. The second point is with regard to the emergency standard one-room flats. I do not think the Kim Seng constituency is the only constituency which has these flats. There are quite a number of constituencies with these emergency one-room standard flats which were built in the early days. I know that under the appalling circumstances in 1960 perhaps the residents should be eternally grateful for those flats. But Singapore has changed. Flats are now better built and, by comparison, something should be done and with haste towards improving the living conditions of those presently occupying the one-room flats. I believe the Hon. Minister will have a lot to say on this matter. But may I suggest as a temporary measure, that perhaps he should consider the provision of better lighting along the corridors. The only source of light is at the end of the long tunnel. This point has been raised many times. Every time, after a Budget session, the residents do get the lighting put on for longer hours but towards the end of the year they find that the lights go off earlier, and we have to remind the Area Offices, that they should put on the lights again. Let us hope that we do not need to bring up this point annually and say, "Please light up the corridors." 3.30 p.m. Then there is the question of ventilation. In order to improve ventilation, one suggestion was to knock down some single unit flats somewhere in between the row of flats so that the residents can have a play area and also better ventilation. I do not know when the work will start. In my constituency, we were assured by the Area Office that work was to have started in 1977-78 and yet there is nothing in sight. Maybe it is a question of conversion from one-room to two- or three-room flats. Lastly, in these old estates perhaps one or more blocks could be pulled down in order to provide empty space. We need more space in these old estates. This extra space could well help to make the environment better than it is today. Sir, I do hope the Minister can provide some comments on the remarks I have just made.

Sir, I have an amendment on the subject of Housing and Development Board. Can I speak now?

Yes, Mr Tan.

Sir, two of the more common complaints received by MPs from constituents living in HDB flats concern the lift services and the cleaning of common areas. Lift breakdowns are a common phenomenon in HDB flats. In the older housing estates, they have become an even more regular feature of high-rise living, as most of the lifts are old and wear and tear have taken their toll. Sometimes vandalism in the lifts has also contributed to the breakdown. Maintenance and repair of HDB lifts are contracted to lift companies. But are the lift companies providing the service in a satisfactory manner? In my constituency, I am always receiving complaints that lifts are not operational even if they have been repaired or serviced over and over again. Let me just give an illustration. There is a block of flats in Stirling Road served by only one lift. Owing to frequent complaints, the lift was turned off at the end of November last year for major repairs. These major repairs included repairing the lift car panels and platform and providing formica lining to the lift. I was told that all this repair work was necessary so that the lift will be safe for residents to use. After almost a month, the work was completed. Less than two weeks later, something happened again and the lift repairers came round once more and this time they found a defective motor bearing. They found a defective motor bearing just two weeks after having spent one whole month running up and down to make sure the lift would be safe for residents to -use. Anyway, Sir, this time they stopped the lift for another week before putting it back into operation. Sir, what kind of service are we getting from this lift company? For one whole month it was engaged in major repairs and yet it overlooked the minor details and had to stop the lift for another week. But that is not all. The story has not ended yet. Shortly after, the lift broke down again. This time I was told that it was due to poor workmanship on the part of the lift repairers, as they did not fix the parts properly the last two times they were around. When I queried why there was poor workmanship, I was told that the lift company management was having problems with its workers, and therefore that's it. Sir, I am wondering if this kind of service can actually be called a service at all. This so-called lift service has instead resulted in- An hon. Member: Lip service!

This so-called lift service which appears to be a lip service has instead resulted in residents suffering inconvenience. For the better part of two months, they had to walk up and down the staircase. Sir, is there no way the HDB can ensure that the lift companies are doing their jobs properly? Are the HDB engineers checking on the work carried out by the lift companies? Finally, what is the policy of the HDB regarding replacing very old lifts with new ones? Obviously some of them have reached a stage where it appears pointless to continue repairing over and over again, and probably it is more economical just to instal a new one. Sir, I want to touch on the cleanliness of common areas. The HDB is supposed to sweep the common areas daily and wash them once a fortnight. I say "suppose" because apparently that is actually all there is to it, a supposition or assumption that sweeping would be done daily and, in the case of washing, fortnightly. Complaints are frequent that the corridors are swept once in a few days, maybe once a week. If one wants to talk about washing, judging from the number of complaints I get, I am inclined to believe that a block of flats is really made clean, spick-and-span, only when the HDB area office knows that the MP is coming around for his door-to-door visits. I therefore wonder if tighter supervision can be effected on HDB workers or the conservancy contractors to ensure that the cleaning and washing stipulations are strictly adhered to.

( In Mandarin): Sir, thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak. First, I would like to touch on the emergency one-room flats mentioned by the Member for Kim Seng. Blocks 1 to 5 emergency flats in Tiong Bahru were put up hastily in the early 1960s, after the big fire in Kampong Tiong Bahru. These are all five-storey flats. There are 130 to 240 units in each block. Apart from 12 units of two-room flats and 24 units of three-room flats in each block, the rest of them are one-room flats. Because these flats were built hastily, the designs were not satisfactory. Ventilation is poor, lighting is inadequate, and it is very congested. Therefore, the residents find it very hot and stuffy. The HDB had earlier said that it was going to improve these flats, and began to experiment with one of the blocks. Work was started but stopped half-way. Since then nothing has been done. I would like to ask the Minister to ascertain from the HDB whether it has a definite plan for the improvement of these emergency flats. There is only one staircase in each block and about 100 to 200 families use this common staircase. It is a great fire hazard. If there is a fire, the consequences would be disastrous. I hope the HDB would take note of this in its programme to improve these flats. Secondly, Blocks 6 to 16 located between Kim Tian Road and Jalan Membina, were built immediately after the emergency block mentioned earlier were built. Among these, nine blocks of two-room flats are rented out to the public. Each flat has an area of 34 square metres and the rubbish chute is located at both ends of each blocks. The rental is $49.50 per month for each flat. However, not far away from these blocks of flats there are three blocks of two-room flats which were built later. Their design is better and their floor area is bigger. Each unit has an area of about 40 square metres. They have got their own rubbish chute. However, the rental is only $40. Therefore, those occupying the former type of flats are grumbling, saying that although they are paying a higher rental their flats are not so good, and this is unfair to them. In 1972, I raised this point with the HDB. The HDB said that as there was no precedent for a reduction of rental, my request had to be turned down. In fact, it could be adjusted when the HDB later adjusted the charges for conservancy. However, it was not done and this kind of injustice was allowed to continue. I would like to take this opportunity to remind the authorities concerned to reconsider this matter. If possible, the rental for those emergency flats should be reduced to the same level as that for those flats which were built later. On the other hand, I would suggest that these flats should be convened into four-room flats and sold to the public to solve the problem once and for all. Lastly, with regard to hawkers, those under the Ministry of the Environment are licensed. However, those under the HDB have to sign a tenancy agreement. If there is a change in the policy, the HDB hawkers will have to sign a new contract, for which they have to pay additional stamp fees. For example, in the recent revision of licence fees, the HDB hawkers had to sign a new contract and they had to pay stamp fees ranging from $18 to $26. This is an additional burden on the HDB hawkers. So I would like to ask the Minister to consider issuing them with hawker licences instead.

Sir, I would like to add a few comments to those of my colleagues. particularly the Member for Kim Seng. Sir, St. Michael's Estate is a very old housing estate, one of the oldest in Singapore. Recently, I concluded a six- month campaign in that estate to try and improve the environment, in cooperation with the Housing Board officials. In the course of my rounds, we came across so many complaints. Virtually every flat dweller made complaints about his old flat; window panes were broken; the wood of the doors had rotted: ceilings were leaking; sewerage pipes were also leaking; water pressure was low; and the wiring was rather old and in need of changing. The Housing Board has begun to do something about the wiring and water pipe pressure. But in the process of rewiring, the contractors, had to change those power points which were originally provided. And the power points which were installed by the tenants themselves had to be changed as well. In this respect the contractors were exacting a very heavy price for the replacement of these points, and if the tenants chose not to accept their conditions, well, they would leave the wires dangling in a very dangerous manner. When the corridor lighting was changed, the number of lights per corridor was reduced and the illumination of these lights was also reduced, I would like to know from the Hon. Senior Minister of State why should they save on corridor lighting because such saving will only encourage more crime along the corridors. 3.45 p.m. The point made by the Member for Kim Seng, namely, that tremendous resources are being used by the Housing Board in the planning and provision of facilities on new estates, is quite right, in my view. But at the same time the residents of the older and established estates should not be neglected. They are just given little peanuts by way of little flower beds here and there and the flower beds are also not properly maintained. Proper planning should be given to these older estates to see how things can be improved and what additional facilities can be introduced. The Member for Kim Seng and, I think, the Member for Tiong Bahru also, have made reference to one-room emergency flats. Here I would like to see improvements in ventilation and living conditions generally. I would not like to see conversions from one-room to two-room flats. I made my views known at the last session for the simple reason that there are still people who need the cheaper rentals namely, $26 a month, that these flats can provide them with. We know very well that whenever HDB converts one-room flats into two-room flats they double or more than double the rents. There are quite a few old people who are quite destitute, on social welfare assistance and they are living in these one-room emergency flats. I hope the Housing Board will provide the improvements but will leave these flats for rental at the same price as hitherto.

Sir, let me start off with the query raised by the Member for Changi. He wonders whether in the overall planning of Housing Board estates various factors have been taken into consideration such as the demand for a particular area as well as a newer system of allocation in the different zones, both inside and outside the central area. It may be useful to assure the Member that the development of Housing Board estates, such as the ones he has mentioned, Woodlands and Clementi among others, is based on what we call a long term concept plan. This is for the physical development drawn by the State and City Planning Project. The Plan caters for an eventual population of 4 million people. It is based on this concept that housing for the population should be provided close to their place of work. Therefore, the two particular housing estates that he has mentioned have been built near industrial development areas, such as Jurong, Kranji and Sembawang. This concept plan also includes an integrated transportation network linking housing estates to industrial estates as well as towards urban development areas. Therefore, in the overall planning of new towns or new estates, the long term interest is taken into consideration. In other words, the overall planning of Singapore is taken into consideration, and not simply to build a housing estate because there is, in the short term consideration, a particular demand for a certain area. I mentioned just now that, in the implementation of this concept plan, the HDB recognises that its building programme must be closely related to the demand for flats. In fact, the long term projection for Woodlands is that it will be developed into one of the larger estates simply because there is the land available. However, based on the present rate of building, flats are built at such a pace so that there is a reasonable demand, I can give him figures. For example, he has indicated that there is an oversupply in Clementi. According to our information, the supply and demand for Clementi New Town is 15,000 units. The programme of construction up to September 1979 is only 10,000 units. So the indications show that there are a number of people who have registered for that particular area. In the boundary of the city area, for example, Bukit Merah and Telok Blangah, I think the Member is well aware that as far as land availability is concerned, it is restricted. Therefore, the desire to build more is limited by land constraints. In the past there has been the tendency for people to drift away from the central area, simply because suitable accommodation is not available. In fact, in the development of public housing in the central area there are the problems of high land cost, clearance and in some cases the amenities required. Over the last few years intensive public housing has been introduced into the central area, such as Rochore, Queen Street, Upper Cross Street and Tanjong Pagar. Under the planning programme a few other small estates are also under consideration. The Ministry is at present considering the various ways of introducing housing into the central area. It could be public housing, middle-income housing or even private housing. Hopefully, with the availability of more housing in the central area, the population could be attracted back into the city area. With regard to his suggestion on a new system of registering new applicants, the difficulties have been encountered with a minority of applicants. They are extremely choosy and refuse to budge from an area of their choice. Although they have been told that there are no more flats coming up in that particular area, they still insist on going to see their Member of Parliament for allocation. It is precisely for this reason that we have this new system of registering applicants has been re-aligned and extended from five zones under the old system to eight zones under the new system. Rather than having a bigger zone covering, for example, Teck Whye, Bukit Timah and Clementi, the boundary of the zone is being narrowed down. Hopefully, with the concentration of smaller areas, the choice therefore would be limited to the area that the applicant wants. When I say "area" it means a zone covering a few estates. Another recent policy that discourages this unreasonableness in insisting on a particular area is the choice of three ballots. In other words, if an applicant is seriously in need of housing, then having been given three choices, it should be sufficient for him to decide on a particular unit that he wants. Next, the Member for Sembawang. Let me straightaway on behalf of the Housing and Development Board thank him for his compliments. I think the HDB does deserve it. His complaints on the defects, such as leaks in toilets and kitchens are normally rectified by the building contractors, if they are within what is called the "12-month retention period". During this period it is usual for the HDB to direct the contractors to attend to the repairs immediately. However, after the retention period, flat owners are responsible for making good these defects. But they can engage HDB contractors, which are cheaper than private contractors. The HDB will only be responsible for the normal wear and tear of defects in rented flats, and they will try and rectify them as soon as possible. The HDB has a maintenance unit which provides services for breakdown of lifts, sanitation and electricity. With these facilities it is hoped that repairs of this nature could be attended to as quickly as possible. If the Member is talking of specifics, that there are certain flats which are not well done, I suggest that he brings them to our attention. I have only given him a general reply in terms of services available. As regards the refuse chutes in HDB flats, they are not breakable because they are normally made of concrete. If the residents throw metal objects down the chute, they will certainly get a noise which they are complaining about. To avoid the noise nuisance arising from the throwing of metal objects down the chute, I suggest educating the flat dwellers. The HDB cannot do very much about this, unless the Member is suggesting that future chutes in HDB flats be made of plastic or some other special material, but the cost is a factor to be considered. With regard to his request for sports facilities in the Marsiling area, the normal type of recreational and sports facilities, such as basketball courts and badminton courts, will be provided. Some of these facilities have already been built. With regard to the provision of security to market areas and so on, this is one problem which has to be looked into. The Member may be aware of the latest situation in HUDC estates. While the HUDC management wanted to introduce some form of security control in terms of carparking and car lots, this idea brought about certain unhappiness among the residents and as a result the scheme was withdrawn. By the way, the conservancy charges of the HDB do not include security maintenance of the estates, markets and places like that. It is strictly for common areas like lighting of common corridors. In fact, it is restrictive. So if cost is not a factor, perhaps the HDB can look into the provision of some form of security control in those areas mentioned by the Member such as markets or shops or whatever he has in mind. Let me now come to the Member for Kim Seng. I can give a general reply to the queries raised by the Members for Kim Seng, Whampoa and Tiong Bahru. Let me assure them that the HDB will do its best to provide facilities of the type that they have requested, i.e. open space and more greenery to make old estates in particular look more green and a gracious place to live in. 4.00 p.m. An hon. Member: Swimming pool.

Here again, it is not so much the unwillingness of the HDB to provide some form of facilities to alleviate the very dull conditions in these old estates. The constraint of an old estate is the limited land area. Despite the limited number of pots of flowers, plants and trees, I agree that attempts need to be made to improve the situation. I can assure hon. Members that despite the limited land area available the HDB is willing to listen to whatever suggestions that Members have. The more immediate action to be taken is this general policy that the HDB is agreeable to convert the one- room emergency flats into two-room or three-room flats. Even in those estates where there is a shortage of open space, some of these one-room emergency flats or blocks could be knocked down as suggested by the Member for Kim Seng so as to create some open space in these old estates. I was also told that for one-room improved flats built in the early sixties the Board is now looking into the possibility of upgrading the standard of these flats to bring them up to the standard of the present one-room new generation type of flats. We are also agreeable, in view of the comments by the Member for Whampoa regarding hardship cases and lower income groups, that there is no intention to convert all the emergency flats. There is a general thinking that, depending on the demand of this category of dwellers, at least 25% to 30% would be retained for this category of dwellers. When will all these steps be taken? The indications are that we will try to do them within the next two to three years. The problem is not a simple one. The Board is at present managing something like 17,564 units of one-room emergency flats and 54,524 units of these old one-room improved flats. This is for the whole of Singapore. If hon. Members are interested in a particular constituency, I have the figures here. I can give them personally, both for Tiong Bahru and Kim Seng. Since I am replying in the same vein, I will take the Member for Tiong Bahru first before I come to the Member for Alexandra. The Member for Tiong Bahru has made two observations. I have already explained about the one-room emergency flats and I hope he is satisfied with the reply. As far as better lighting, safety precautions and complaints of that nature are concerned, I think we are all agreed that these are vital and I see no reason why the HDB should neglect these facilities. Incidentally, on the comments made by the Member for Whampoa about a reduction in the number of lights in the corridors, perhaps it could be that the lights provided have a higher voltage. I really do not know. But these are details that can be sorted out quite easily. The Member for Tiong Bahru has touched on switching from a tenancy agreement for the hawkers into one of a licence, as in the case of the Ministry of the Environment. Perhaps I can state my view on this. A tenancy agreement has security of tenure over a licence, although you may have to pay a higher stamp fee at the end of each year. However, the HDB will liaise with the Ministry of the Environment, and we will consider the switch that he has requested. If both sides are agreeable, we can look into its implementation. The second observation made by him concerns the different rentals between the two-room flats in Blocks 115 and 117 and the nine blocks of two-room flats built by the SIT. The explanation here is one of costing. Those nine blocks of flats were built by SIT as early as 1959. The rentals were then fixed in relation to capital cost and outgoings, and there was therefore a wide range of rentals, differing with each contract. But the main point of argument here is that while these old SIT flats are being charged $65.50 or $66.50 per month including conservancy charges as compared to $57 per month for the newer two-room HDB flats, the conservancy charges are meant to cover refuse collection, grass cutting, lighting, cleaning of common areas, lifts, and things of this nature. It does not take into account the maintenance of buildings. Therefore, both rentals are already highly subsidised by Government. Generally the subsidy is as high as 50%. Maintaining the old SIT flats cost more than maintaining the new HDB flats. Therefore, HDB is regretfully not agreeable to a reduction of the rentals. I have explained that this is mainly due to maintenance cost which is quite different from conservancy charges. Lastly, the Member for Alexandra is unhappy over the numerous breakdowns of lifts at Stirling Road. One swallow does not make a summer. Arising from one particular experience, it is unfair to drag down the whole of the HDB's maintenance unit in the process. However, he has asked what steps we are taking to reduce these lift breakdowns to the minimum. A few days ago, on 13th March, in this House I have replied to a Question tabled by the Member for Potong Pasir who queried on lift breakdowns. I will give him the statistics. For December 1977 there were 2,959 lifts and the number of breakdowns for that month was 3,720. The average for the second half of 1977 is as follows: Average No. 1977 of breakdowns July 1.23 August 1.32 September 1.27 October 1.27 November 1.26 December 1.25 These statistics clearly show that the overall maintenance of lifts in HDB flats is in a reasonable order. I would conclude that the unhappy incident that he has experienced in his constituency is an exception rather than the rule. He has also indicated that vandalism is the cause. He has also agreed with us that the cooperation of the constituents is required. The only point that we concede is that the services of the lift company responsible for that particular incident could be improved. I would convey the Member's strong protest on the way the repairs have been carried out, we are also taking active steps to try and reduce the number of breakdowns. To do this, the mechanical and electrical components have to be improved. Courses are being conducted to train more lift mechanics. The old lifts which he is concerned about are regularly checked for performance and safety, and defective parts replaced. As a matter of policy, when old liftS are too costly to be repaired they are being replaced by new ones. That policy which he is thinking about is actually being implemented. The HDB is taking steps to ensure that the maintenance of lifts is carried out as efficiently as possible and exceptional incidents of the nature which the Member has mentioned will hopefully be minimised. But I do not think that it could be totally reduced.

Sir, I find the answer given by the Hon. Minister of State not too satisfactory. The incident which I related is not an isolated one. In fact, I said earlier in my speech that breakdowns in lifts are a common feature in the older housing estates and it is occurring very frequently in my constituency. The Senior Minister of State has given us the number of average breakdowns of lifts as 1.

25. Of course, if you take into consideration the new lifts in the new estates, I do not expect the new lifts to give any trouble at all. So I do not think that is a fair way of averaging.

( In Mandarin): Sir, talking about rentals for the two-room flats, I have already anticipated that the Housing Board would not agree to reduce the rentals. But at the same time I have made a suggestion to convert the old two-room flats into four-room flats for sale to the public. Otherwise this injustice will continue to exist.

( In Mandarin): I am generally satisfied with the answer given by the Senior Minister of State. But I would like to raise two more points. He mentioned about the security measures for hawkers at food centres. He says he would consider the possibility of providing the security. It shows that he is taking an interest in the matter. I would like to propose for his consideration the putting up of collapsible iron gate at the entrance to the market. That is to say, when the market closes for business all the collapsible gates should be locked. Generally speaking, a market should have a watchman to look after it. 4.15 p.m. Secondly, I would like to ask the Senior Minister of State whether he would consider puffing up a notice board along the corridor of Housing Board flats so that any new regulations, instructions or advice to the residents can be put on the notice board. Thus, information can be passed on to the residents in a most effective and cheapest way. Any information can also be put on notice boards of any nearby community centres. In this way the residents will be kept informed. The activities of the community centres can also be reported on the notice boards along the corridors of the flats.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would like to assure the Senior Minister of State that the breakdowns in lifts in the old estates are quite frequent indeed. They are not exceptional as he has tried to make out. I think it is time to replace many of these lifts. If they are replaced, I hope that the HDB will make sure that they buy good lifts. If we were to go to some of the commercial buildings and see the lifts in operation, we find that they work very smoothly and with certainty. Some of the lifts that we find in the HDB estates start up very slowly and break down every so often. I also welcome the Minister's assurance that he is favourably disposed to beautification and the provision of additional recreational facilities in the older housing estates. I hope that when the time comes for actual recommendation, he will back up his words with actual budgetary provisions in the not too distant future.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I would just like the Senior Minister of State to clarify one point. He has said that the HDB is responsible for all defects for the first 12 months. What happens when major structural defects are discovered after the period of 12 months? Will the HDB be responsible for them, or will it be the responsibility of the home owners?

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I have just a small point to make. The Member for Kim Seng was referring to Chai Chee constituency when he talked about beautification. I think the word "luxury" was used. Sir, I can assure the House that it is not a luxury. We cannot afford it. It is just a modest programme to inculcate in the residents the spirit of self-help, instead of demanding too much from the Government all the time. In this case, it is the HDB. That was the spirit and still is the spirit of the whole project. Unfortunately it has not been approved by the Housing Board as yet. I hope it will be approved. We are not trying to show off anything. But I believe the people can be motivated in this spirit of neighbourliness and self-help. There are a lot of things we can do ourselves without making too much demand on the Government. If I may be allowed to touch on the question of maintenance of HDB flats. I have just written a strongly worded letter of complaint to the Area Office. It seems that there is no control over the workers employed for the normal maintenance work. There were cases of contract workers trying to outrage the modesty of female occupants. The letter has just gone to the Area Office this morning. I hope the Minister will look into this matter.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, may I add a further point to what the Member for Whampoa has just said. What I want to stress is not so much the replacement of old lifts with new lifts as to ensure that the quality of services provided by the maintenance company is of a sufficiently good standard. Obviously, if the service we get is very poor, we may have to replace the lifts aM the time, I do not think the Senior Minister of State is thinking on that line.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, let me clarify the position. When I say, "one swallow does not make a summer", perhaps I did not clearly state that I was referring to a major breakdown which the Member had mentioned. I concede that the case which the Member referred to was a major breakdown and the repairs lasted more than one or two months. I also concede that minor faults occur frequently. I do not have the statistics. I can compile statistics for the old estates to find out the situation, I will look into the matter. We have a 24-hour emergency or maintenance service in the Housing and Development Board. This particular 24-hour service is meant to undertake minor repairs. Let us be clear in our minds that one kind of service is for major repairs and the other is for minor repairs. When I say, "replacement of lifts", I am referring to a situation where repairs would amount to such a gigantic sum that it would not serve any purpose in proceeding with the repairs. It is probably more sensible to replace them with new lifts. It is obvious that with the standard of HDB flats, the lifts that we provide cannot be compared with commercial shopping centres. Once a lift of a certain size is installed to fit the lift shaft that is provided, then there is very little we can do about the size. Even with the best of intentions, we cannot increase the lift capacity because we are limited to the dimensions of the lift shaft that we have originally provided. The only hope we can have is that, if capacity is the problem, perhaps when the lifts in the old flats break down, then better lifts could be installed. Another assurance which I have forgotten to give to the Member for Tiong Bahru is that the HDB is willing to consider converting the old 2-room SIT flats into four-room flats. We will look into the matter. Regarding notice boards placed at focal points, for example, at shopping centres, hawker centres, markets, town centres and so on, proper notice boards are being placed at these focal points. There is no objection if the community centres wish to put up notices concerning their particular housing estate. They are most welcome to do that. Woodlands Estate is no different from the other housing estates and notice boards are provided at almost all focal points. As to his suggestion regarding the locking of the gate at that particular market, not all markets are of the type which he has described. But to be more specific, if he is referring to that particular type we will look at it, and if it is practical to implement his suggestion we will do so. Finally, on the comments made by the Member for Chai Chee, regarding the beautification plan that members of his CCC and other groups are implementing, this is something which others should emulate if they wish to proceed with their beautification programme quickly. This is better than waiting for the higher authorities, such as the HDB, to provide the estates with all the facilities which Members are requesting.

Sir, on the matter of lifts, there are a few points that I wish to make. First, the criterion for replacing a lift should not simply be the occurrence of a major breakdown but the frequency of breakdowns. Secondly, what I had in mind was the quality of the lift and not so much as the size of the lift. In other words, an expensive brand of lift may well be worth more than paying less for a cheap make which breaks down very frequently. That was the point which I was trying to make. Obviously the Senior Minister of State does not know what a block of emergency flats looks like because he has mentioned a lift in such a block of flats. I am not award of any lift in any block of emergency flats.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I concede that point. I have been to a block of emergency flats. It was just a slip of my tongue. The Member for Telok Blangah has asked who is responsible for defects in HDB flats after the period of 12 months has lapsed. It is the responsibility of the owners. If a person buys a flat and the guarantee period is over, then it will be his responsibility to make good any defects, unless he can show that the defect occurs in common areas. If there are structural defects in the common areas which could be considered as the responsibility of the HDB, then the HDB will look into it.

Sir, the Senior Minister of State has missed my second point which I raised just now, that is, if he would ensure tighter supervision over the HDB workers or conservancy contractors to ensure that the stipulations in the contracts for cleaning and washing are strictly adhered to.

Sir, I would definitely take note of the observations made by both the Member for Alexandra and the Member for Chai Chee. We are all agreed that we want the estates to be kept clean. I will convey the Member for Alexandra's observation to the HDB and request them to tighten up the regulations on maintenance of these common areas which he has referred to.

Sir, in view of the satisfactory explanation given by the Senior Minister of State, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead Code NG-02 of the Main Estimates. Sir, redevelopment in Singapore is progressing at a rapid rate. Every year, hundreds of families are affected by resettlement and this often causes great inconvenience and hardship to many people, including farmers. The Government is fully aware of this fact and to alleviate this problem the people are given certain compensation. For instance, ,shopkeepers who are affected by resettlement are given priority in the allocation of shops in the Housing and Development Board estates. Furthermore, they are given concession in their rent for a certain number of years. Likewise, farmers are given priority in the allocation of flats if they choose to stay in flats. They are also given compensation to overcome their transition from a farming life to a completely new way of life. These measures taken by the Government are quite appropriate as it has alleviated the hardship of the people to a certain extent. 4.30 p.m. However, the attitude of the officers from the Resettlement Department leaves much to be desired. Some of the officers are adopting a "couldn't care less" attitude while others are over-zealous in their work. They think that their job is to get rid of those affected and the sooner they can accomplish this the more credit they will get. They fail to understand that affected people who have to vacate their land are making great sacrifices for national development and thus deserve fair treatment. I often receive complaints from these people that the officers of the Resettlement Department are unsympathetic and bureaucratic. To prove the point, the officers are very slipshod in their work, particularly in their assessment of compensation. This leads to many complaints of inadequate compensation. Whenever the farmers are not satisfied with the compensation, the so-called conscientious officers will ask them to see their MP. The existence of passing the buck is not acceptable. If the MPs have to attend to all these problems which should have been dealt with satisfactorily by these officers in the first place, what then is the job of the assessment officers? These problems will be pleasantly resolved if the officers take more interest in their job. We hope something can be done immediately so that the good name of the civil service will not be tarnished. Another problem which deserves our attention is the communication gap between the resettlement officers and those affected. Most of those affected, especially the farmers, are simple people and they are quite ignorant of the regulations and conditions governing their rights to monetary compensation as well as allocation of alternative accommodation. Simple as they are, they are still interested in their rights, However, some of the officers are not always in a position to enlighten the people regarding their rights because of their illiteracy. Can we have the assurance of the Hon. Minister that only people who are tactful, courteous, sympathetic and helpful are sent out to deal with the affected people? This is very important, as otherwise a lot of doubts will be instilled in the minds of those affected. I often come across many people who are very unhappy because of unjust treatment accorded to them. Another major complaint is that very often the people are told to sign documents against their rights. This is of great concern to them because they do not know what will happen to them next. If they refuse to sign the documents when they are told to do so, the unscrupulous officers threaten them by saying that they will bring in the demolition squad. If the farmers are illiterate, it is the duty of the officers to explain to them what is specified in the documents before asking them to sign. Obviously this is not done, presumably because the officers either adopt a "couldn't care less" attitude or are taking advantage of the people's ignorance for the benefit of their administrative convenience. Little do these officers realise that these signed documents may eventually deprive the people of some of their rights and privileges. Therefore, are we fair to the farmers as well as to the other people who are affected? I believe that such problems not only affect my constituency but also other constituencies as well. Another problem with regard to resettlement is the poor coordination between the Housing and Development Board and the Resettlement Department. I have personally come across several persons who were told to vacate their land by a certain deadline but the Housing and Development Board was not able to offer them flats before that deadline. This state of affairs is far from satisfactory. In actual fact. we expect the Housing and Development Board to offer them flats at least a few weeks in advance so that they can carry out renovations to their flats which take time. An important point which the HDB has failed to understand is that getting employment is as important as getting a place to live in. People like the farmers who are affected by resettlement often find difficulties in seeking alternative employment. This problem is not so critical with the younger generation because they are still flexible and they can look for a job. However, the situation is different for the older citizens. No factory will accept them because they have already passed their middle age and besides they do not possess other skills except farming skills in the case of the farmers. If these people have families to support them, everything is fine. But what about those who have families to support? Is the compensation offered to them adequate to last them throughout their lives, not forgetting that their cost of living is going to be higher when they shift into HDB flats? If not, what can they do, once their resources are depleted? Surely we do not expect them to live on fresh air alone! Therefore, the HDB should help them in seeking employment, irrespective of their ages. They should also be recommended for allocation of hawker stalls in particular, to enable them to earn a decent living.

Sir, earlier this year, I asked and was happy with the answer given by the Senior Minister of State for National Development about a piece of land at the corner of Henderson/Telok Blangah Roads. This piece of land will be cleared of derelict houses and be made into a garden. Therefore, it was rather distressing to learn that the Resettlement Department has written to the Majlis Ugama Islam Singapura. copied to the management committee of the mosque, that the mosque which is situated at the corner of this piece of land will also have to be demolished. Sir, this mosque serves the spiritual need of about 6,000 Muslims currently residing in Telok Blangah Drive and Telok Blangah Heights. Unless this piece of land is required for immediate redevelopment, I feel that this mosque should be allowed to remain, as it serves a purpose. The management committee of the mosque has assured me that they will demolish the mosque on their own accord when the HDB is actually ready to redevelop this piece of land. I hope the Senior Minister of State will consider this request.

Sir, let me take the comments made by the Member for Telok Blangah. The resettlement policy is clear-cut, irrespective of religions, irrespective of owners and irrespective of organisations. I am appreciative of the Member's problem and I would suggest that if he is asking for a postponement he should write in to the authorities for consideration. But if the request is for an exemption of acquisition, then I think it is a separate issue. The best way for the Member to approach his problem would be to write to the relevant authority for extension of time. The hon. Member for Changi has made observations to the effect that the resettlement officers are high-handed, unsympathetic, bureaucratic, unscrupulous, etc. We all agree that people affected by resettlement have to undergo a difficult process of changing their environment and, in some cases, as in the case of the old farmers that he was talking about, a change in their occupations. This process is a difficult one, hence rules relating to the eligibility of compensation and resettlement benefits have been introduced to alleviate the problems encountered. Obviously, these resettlement benefits or compensation can only be provided to bona fide cases. In the process of establishing the bona fides of a particular case, a certain course of action must be taken, such as taking a census, conducting interviews, and making assessments. I would like to assure the Member that every assistance is being given to help these resettlement cases to find alternative accommodation and a fair and reasonable compensation is also given to deserving cases. Sir, I have in previous years said that all officers dealing with resettlement cases have been given standing instructions to be helpful and courteous at all times and to render whatever assistance required of them. We have also told them to help those affected by interpreting and explaining all official documents and procedures. In fact, they have to explain to the people concerned before asking them to sign a particular document. To be fair, the Resettlement Department has issued information sheets. For example, in the establishment of bona fide cases, such as length of residence in a particular area, we have given a list of items of particulars that can be used as evidence to establish their residence at a particular address. That information sheet has been circulated to all residents affected by resettlement or acquisition. We believe that all necessary steps have been taken. There could be cases of individual officers who did not conform to these standing instructions. If the Member has a specific case in mind, he should write to the Ministry because it would be easier for the Ministry to investigate specific complaints. On the Member's complaint of poor coordination between the HDB and the Resettlement Department, for his information the Resettlement Department is under the Housing and Development Board. So I find it difficult to understand how there could be non-cooperation. We all concede that perhaps there could be some miscommunication between the officers, and I think this should be taken as particular instances rather than a generalisation. 4.45 p.m. With regard to the difficulties of finding alternative employment for those senior citizens or old farmers, there is really very little that the Resettlement Department can do. On the question of request for a hawker licence, MPs can make such requests to the relevant authority provided the necessary prerequisites are there. For example, a person must be over 40 years and is completely dependent on a livelihood, and so on and so forth. I think I have more or less answered the points that the Member has raised.

Sir, the Senior Minister of State has not given me a really satisfactory answer in regard to the unhelpfulness of these resettlement officers. I would like to seek the Senior Minister of State's assurance that these officers who are now carrying out such exercises in my constituency are categorically told that they must be more helpful instead of trying to pass the buck to the Member of Parliament concerned. In this House last year I brought up the matter of unsympathetic officers of the Resettlement Department. As this problem is still existent in my constituency, it is apparent that the situation has not improved. During my meet-the-people sessions complaints have been brought to my attention about the unhelpfulness of these officers and the threatening attitude that they have adopted.

Sir, I would like to assure the Member that I would bring this matter up with the Resettlement Department and hope that the situation would improve.

Sir, in view of the assurance given by the Senior Minister of State, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Ng Kah Ting -

Mr Ng is not speaking. Mr Ho, amendment (14).

( In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by $10 in respect of item 1210 of Subhead Code NH-01 of the Main Estimates. Sir, the Primary Production Department has one of the primary functions of assessing whether or not a person affected by resettlement is a bona fide farmer. Those who are certified bona fide farmers will be allotted land, and if they do not want the land they may opt for a free HDB or JTC three-room flat or a cash grant of $11,800 plus higher rates of ex-gratia compensation. However, the farmers affected by the resettlement are generally quite puzzled with the findings of the Primary Production Department. There are farmers who have been rearing large numbers of pigs and chickens but they have not eventually been certified by the Primary Production Department as bona fide farmers. Others who have only tokenly planted a few fruit trees or reared a few pigs have been found to be bona fide farmers. Such findings seem to be governed by the whims and fancies of the officers of the Primary Production Department. There does not seem to be any established criteria. I would like to ask the Minister concerned how many cases of resettlement over the past five years have been found to be bona fide farmers, and how many non-farmers have reasserted their bona fides through appeals by themselves or by Members of Parliament concerned. The next question I would like to deal with is the size of land to be allotted to the bona fide farmers. This has also caused a lot of dissatisfaction. There again seems to be no established criteria to the size of land to be allocated, but at the dictates of the PPD. I understand that at the time if many farmers refuse to accept the area of land allotted, a bigger piece of land would then be given to them. Over the past five years, I wonder how many farmers were given pieces of land larger than originally offered. Can the Minister explain these matters to this House? Next, let me turn to the question of Jurong Abattoir, I am surprised that the charges for slaughtering pigs have been increased from $2 to $6.85 over a matter of a few years. This is more than three-fold. All these charges have been unilaterally jacked up by the management. It is the consumers who eventually suffer. I would like to ask the Minister concerned why should the charges at the abattoir be increased. Another matter that has caused general concern is that the officers of the abattoir always pick on the excuse that the pig's liver is unwholesome, and so refuse to allow the pork merchants to put it on sale. Of course, in the interest of public health, that is correct. But, sometimes, very large numbers of pig liver have been banned from sale. Worse still, the pork merchants concerned are not allowed to see for themselves whether or not this is true. Moreover, they do not know how the pig liver is disposed of or whether it is taken away by some other people for open sale. Can the Minister clarify these matters to the House?

May I draw the Member for Sembawang's attention to his amendment No. (16)* on the Order Paper Supplement. That amendment is on Head N Subhead Code NH-02, item 8101. Post Mortem Room and Incinerator (City Veterinary Centre), and he must speak on that particular subject. But if he wants to speak on the present item 1210 now, will he consider it, and speak later?

A few months ago I had the occasion to visit the Van Kleef Aquarium. I am sad to report to this House that I found it in a sad state of neglect. In particular, many of the fish, listed and described on the display tanks, were missing. They must have either died of natural causes or landed in somebody's frying pan. I hope the Minister will look into the situation.

Yes, Mr Teong.

( In Mandarin): Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker, for your guidance. Under this amendment I would like to raise one matter relating to Marsiling housing estate in Sembawang. There are lots of stray dogs running about in the night. After complaints have been made by the residents, some of the stray dogs were caught and carted away. But soon after that, another pack of stray dogs turned up, usually at midnight, causing alarm and a nuisance to the residents. I hope the Minister in charge will order the Dog Control Unit to station dog catchers for a certain time to catch the stray dogs at sight.

Sir, I will look into the observation made by the Member for Whampoa about the neglect of the Van Kleef Aquarium. The information required by the Member for Jurong is as follows. From 1973 to 1977 a total of 2,561 resettlement cases with evidence of some form of farm activities were referred to the Primary Production Department. Of these, 1,984 or about 80% were classified as farming cases. The remaining 577 cases were considered to be non-farmers. A total of 197 appealed for reconsideration. Of these, 89 were successful after their farming activities were reinvestigated. This must clearly show to the Member that his accusation that the Primary Production Department officers have no proper procedures to assess farming activities is incorrect. The criteria used in determining the size of the land to be allocated to farmers for farming are based not on the physical size of the land that they were occupying, but on the farming efficiency and type of farming activities carried out at the time when their farms were surveyed for resettlement consideration. At the time when the land is physically allocated, a few farmers have been given land slightly larger than their eligibility. This is simply because the boundaries of these selected pieces of land have been pegged out in such a way that they cannot be altered or repegged into smaller areas with the remaining area serving any useful purpose. In other instances, farmers have been allocated slightly larger plots of land because of the increased number of livestock kept during the intervening period between the survey and the physical land allocation. Of the 499 farmers who have been allocated alternative land over the last five years, 33 farmers have been given slightly more land. In all these cases, the additional land given is about 0.1 hectare per farmer. For his information, the normal farming land allocated for a farming case varies from one acre to four acres or about 0.4 to 1.6 hectares. As to his third query on the slaughter fees at the abattoir, since 1972 the slaughter fees have been revised and raised in 1974 and 1975. The revisions were staggered over two years to allow for a gradual increase and this is done with the agreement of the Pork Merchants Association. The reason for the upward revision is a general increase in operational expenditure, and obviously inflation. Lastly, the Member's query on pig liver. An average of 2,700 pigs are slaughtered in the abattoirs daily. Of the 2,700 livers examined daily, approximately 3% are found to be diseased and condemned. The main cause of condemnation of the liver is due to worm infestation. What would they do with them? Condemned liver, together with other condemned parts of the animals, are treated under high temperature after which they can be processed for animal feed. 5.00 p.m. The Member for Sembawang commented on stray dogs in his constituency, particularly in the Marsiling area. He has requested for somebody to hang around in the vicinity to catch the stray dogs. This is difficult unless he can tell us exactly when the stray dogs appear. In fact, if he or his constituents can tell us exactly when these stray dogs appear, they are most welcome to ring the Dog Control Unit of the Primary Production Department. This is situated at the City Veterinary Centre at Kampong Java. To satisfy him, the Marsiling area is frequently visited by the Dog Control Unit. In January, a total of 15 visits were made to the area, resulting in the capture of 45 stray dogs. We will carry out frequent checks but it will continue to be a problem if the public who are moving to HDB flats simply neglect their dogs and leave them to stray. The best would be for members of the public to inform the Primary Production Department when they want to get rid of their dogs and also to ring up the PPD when they see stray dogs around.

( In Mandarin): Sir, if I have not listened wrongly, in the answer given by the Minister of State he said that of the 577 cases of non-farmers there were 197 appeal cases, of which 89 cases were successful. This shows the magnanimity of the Appeal tribunal. But to me, it shows that the first decision of the department concerned has not been very accurate, although it is sympathetic enough in considering the appeals. There must be something wrong with the first decision of the PPD, otherwise there would not have been so many appeals with such a high percentage of success. If there were strict criteria to be followed then there would be fewer cases of appeal and there would be yet fewer cases of success. I hope the Minister will look into the matter. The Minister also talked about the physical allocation of land. There were 33 cases of farmers who were given more land than they were actually entitled to, by 0.1 hectare per farmer. I would like to ask the Minister the circumstances why are farmers given pieces of land larger than their entitlement. Can I have an explanation?

Sir, with regard to his observation that out of 197 appeal cases, 89 cases were successful, it does not indicate that the Primary Production officers were slipshod in their assessment. If anything, it is mainly due to the representations made to MPs, such as the Member for Jurong and other rural MPs, that a more flexible assessment is made by the PPD officers for borderline cases. Under what conditions will additional land be given? I have indicated to the Member that the normal allocation for alternative farmlands varies between one and four acres, and that is dependent on farming activities. In other words, if a farmer has, for example, 2,000 pigs against another with 1,000 pigs, then the farmer with the larger number of pigs may be given a slightly bigger piece of land. I have also indicated that the additional land given is very small, only 0.1 hectare, and it is given because in cutting up into different plots of land, there are some remnant corner pieces which cannot really be put to any useful purpose and therefore they are added on to the adjacent plot thai is allotted to the farmers. In other words, this accounts for the variation in the areas between one and four acres that are allocated to the farmers.

( In Mandarin): Sir, although the answer is not entirely satisfactory, but because of time factor, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

( In Mandarin): Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head N be reduced by $10 in respect of item 1210 of Subhead Code NH-05 of the Main Estimates. Sir, in the Central Fish Market in Jurong the fish merchants are very happy over the fact that after many years of hard negotiations the Primary Production Department has finally agreed to build permanent offices for their use. But the progress of the work seems to be much too slow. Piling work has not been completed yet. It has stopped half-way. I do not know why. Can the Minister enlighten this House as to the reasons for holding up the piling work? When will this new building be completed? The next point concerns the jetty at the Fish Market. The jetty is only 600 feet long which is inadequate for their use, particularly when deep sea fishing boats moor there. These deep sea fishing boats take up half the jetty space and the smaller fishing vessels have to queue up for a long time, causing them a lot of inconvenience. With this state of affairs the fish merchants often quarrel among themselves and they even fight at times. I would like to know if the present jetty can be extended.

Sir, I am sorry I do not know the reason for holding up the building of new offices at the Jurong Fish Market. I do not have the details, but I can subsequently provide the information to the Member for Jurong if he wants. I am given to understand that these new offices at the Jurong Fish Market are expected to be completed by August 1979. The Primary Production Department is at present negotiating with the Jurong Town Corporation for a new lease for the Jurong Fishing Port. Under this new lease an additional 1.4 hectares of land is expected to be made available for further development. The construction of additional wharf facilities will obviously be subject to the availability of funds.

( In Mandarin): Sir, this answer is more satisfactory. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $179,659,430 for Head N ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $1.255,524,450 for Head N ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates.

I propose to take the Suspension now. Thereupon Mr Deputy Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Order. I suspend the Sitting now and shall take the Chair again at 5.40 p.m. Sitting accordingly suspended at 5.10 p. m. until 5.40 Am. Sitting resumed at 5.40 p.m.

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

Head O -

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head O be reduced by $10 in respect of item 1100 of Subhead Code OA-01 of the Main Estimates. Browsing through the estimates of expenditure under the Ministry of Communications, I notice that, unlike previous years, there is no provision made for the development of a Mass Rapid Transit System in Singapore. Does this mean that the Government is shelving the idea or is it giving a very low priority to the development. of a MRT System? It is inconceivable that at the end of this century or at the turn of the next century, Singapore can go without a MRT System if it is to keep pace with the need for a much more efficient land communication network to meet changing demands and circumstances. Could the Minister kindly enlighten this House regarding the position today as regards the proposal to develop a MRT System?

( In Mandarin): Sir, I would like to put forward three questions to the Minister for Communications. In this year's budget the Additional Registration Fee (ARF) for private cars has been increased from 100% to 125% and the Preferential Additional Registration Fee (PARF) for all classes of vehicles has also been increased to 125% resulting in an extra revenue of $14.4 million for the Government. We are given to understand by the Government that such a measure is taken not for the sake of collecting more revenue but to prevent the middle and lower income groups from buying more motor cars, thus adding to the congestion on the roads. My first point is this. Ever since the ARF was introduced in 1976, has this measure achieved its object of reducing the number of vehicles on the road? For the year 1976, the number of motor cars registered, including private cars, station wagons and cars for hire, was 8,266, and the number of cars deregistered in the same year was 14,847. Therefore, there was a reduction of 6,581 vehicles. However, towards the end of 1977 there was an obvious change in the figures. New cars registered last year numbered 15,590 and old cars deregistered numbered 16,099. Therefore, the number of cars taken off the road was 509. If we compare the figures for the two years, the increase in new cars almost doubled that for the earlier year. So, it seems to me that this ARF measure has no significant impact at all in reducing the number of private cars on the road. It merely limits the middle and lower income groups from buying cars. This is not fair. One cannot help being sceptical whether such a measure will limit the growth of cars on the roads. Obviously, the intention behind such a measure is merely to increase revenue. The Minister may say that without such measures the number of private cars might rise still higher. But before there is any improvement in the public transport, before we have an adequate taxi service, and before the Government has a comprehensive alternative for a better transport service, it is not fair to prevent the middle and lower income groups from owning cars. I would ask the Senior Minister of State who is a town planner whether, from the professional point of view of the transport department, such measures are wise. I would like him to answer my question. 5.45 p.m.

Secondly, the half-yearly provisional driving licence fee has been increased from $10 to $20 with the intention of increasing the revenue and not limiting the number of learner drivers. The number of people taking up driving has increased. This has created a grave problem. In Queenstown the roads are cluttered with learner drivers in the evenings, particularly in the vicinity of traffic junctions and roundabouts, obstructing traffic. I do not know why the Jurong Testing Centre has been closed down and people are made to go to Queenstown to take driving tests. The Government should do something about it. I feel that learner drivers should not be asked to drive along certain routes which are used for driving test only. We have to rearrange the routes and time schedules for learner drivers. Thirdly, on the question of taxis. We have to look into this complaint by the public with a serious attitude. In spite of the increase in the number of taxis, members of the public have to wait for a long time and yet they cannot get a taxi. This is particularly serious at the airport where tourists complain that they have to wait for one to two hours before they can get a taxi. I myself have experienced this situation. Increasing the number of taxis may be one of the ways to solve this problem. However, we should also look into the scheduling of taxis, that is, the time the taxis start to ply and the time they get off the roads. It is a strange phenomenon that during the rush hours when people leave for home, it is very difficult to get a taxi. I think the ROV should carry out an in-depth study on this matter. Recently there was a photograph in an English newspaper showing two Japanese tourists squatting on the roadside while waiting for a taxi. This gives a bad impression. I hope the Minister will seriously answer these questions.

Sir, our telephone services are considered to be one of the best in the world. I understand that the TAS is now planning to operate the videophone system. This is a teleview in which two people talking to each other can hear and also see each other at the same time by way of a television screen. If the experiments by the TAS are successful, it intends to introduce this service to the general public. I wonder what progress has been made in this direction? Can the Minister elaborate on this subject? Turning to the subject of public bus transport, a few years ago the SBS came under heavy attack by the Backbenchers here and also the general public calling for massive improvement of its services. Government officers were then seconded to the Singapore Bus Service to help in the reorganisation of the bus transport. Today, we have to congratulate the SBS and the Government officials for more or less solving the major problems that existed in the bus company, like rude conductors, reckless drivers, inadequate services and many other problems. Because of the constant review of the whole Singapore bus service, we can say that the SBS has been reorganised and we have indeed broken the backbone of the problem. However, some minor problems still exist. In some areas the services are not sufficiently covered. To quote examples, if a person from Geylang wants to go to Tan Tock Seng Hospital at Moulmein Road, he has got no choice but to take two different service buses to reach his destination. Again, if a person at Marine Parade wants to go to PSA Towers at Telok Blangah Road, he too has to change to a different bus to reach his destination. Because of these bus changes, the commuters have to incur extra fare. Officials from the Ministry of the Environment say that 20% of the daily litter collected appears to be bus tickets. One of the officials even suggested that perhaps the POSB could introduce a scheme to reward school children for collecting the highest-number of bus tickets. The question here is why are these tickets thrown all over the place? Are all the buses not properly equipped with proper receptacles, so that the commuters could throw the used tickets into them? Sir, in 1974 the Ministry of Communications hinted that within a few years' time the SBS would be coverted into a public limited company in which the Government would hold an equity share. Sir, could the Minister explain what is the Government's stand at the moment? The Scheme 'B' buses was initially introduced as a temporary measure to supplement the services of the SBS during peak periods. This was indeed a wise move. Today this temporary measure has more or less become a permanent transport scheme, and I think the owners of these Scheme 'B' buses have also organised themselves to provide a good service to the public. However, we are now faced with a new problem, that is, the extremely poor taxi service. Very often, it is not easy to get a taxi at any time of the day. This problem also exists after midnight hours and is even worse during the change over of the taxi drivers, for they ignore any flagging by passengers. So in times of emergency, just imagine how frustrating it can be to wait for an empty taxi. Even at the airport, many tourists whom we most welcome to our Republic have indicated that everything is all right in Singapore, except that the taxi service is very poor. Sometimes tourists have to wait as long as 1 1/2 to 2 hours for their turn to board a taxi at the airport, especially in the later part of the evening. Sir, sometime ago the Ministry had indicated that the taxi service would be reorganised and more taxis would be sent to the airport. What has happened to all this talk of reorganising the taxi service? Why is this problem allowed to go on daily? In fact, if you ask any one who has been riding in taxis regularly, this is their opinion - that the taxi service in Singapore is horrible. I personally feel that this is the result of the many restrictions and heavy taxes imposed on private vehicles that many people have given up their vehicles and rely on taxi services. And if these services are not improved, I do not foresee other motorists surrendering their cars for alternative means of transport. Sir, the Government may quote figures to show that there are ample taxis on the road. But then the figures quoted are of no use. Theoretically, the figures may be adequate. But then, in practical terms, where have the taxis gone to? Most of the taxis that are on the road are over-utilised. And because of the heavy demand for taxis, some of the taxi drivers too have taken advantage, such as not picking up passengers with baggage. On one occasion I noticed a blind man being helped by a salesgirl at a queue for taxis at the Yaohan Supermarket. He too was denied the service by a taxi driver. Some of them, I do not mean all, are taking the law into their own hands. In the past we have gone all the way to stop the pirate taxis from their illegal operations. Now, come to think of it, many of the pirate taxis were, in fact, providing a good illegal supplementary taxi service. They are like the Scheme 'B' buses; their services too may in a way help to ease the present problem of getting more taxis on the road. Perhaps, we can introduce a Scheme B taxi service. Sir, I hope the Ministry will seriously look into this problem. I want to know how best they intend to solve this daily problem of inadequate taxi services in the Republic.

Sir, Singapore is the fourth busiest port in the world and it shows millions of dollars profit annually. However, on closer examination it is evident that a sizable percentage of this profit is being made in ways which cannot be considered legitimate; I wonder whether or not the Hon. Minister is aware of certain practices currently operating in PSA, through which these profits are being made. One practice which results in overcharging the consignee is that of rounding up the tonnage of a truckload of a cargo to the next higher whole number. By way of illustration, let us consider a consignment of ten large heavy cases each weighing 5.1 tonnes. The total bill of lading tonnage is therefore 51 tonnes. Each case, because of its weight, would be loaded onto a separate truck and, for the purpose of calculating PSA charges, each truckload would be rounded up to 6 tonnes. This means that for a bill of lading showing 51 tonnes, the PSA is charging for 60 tonnes. This is an overcharge of nine tonnes. Taking it the other way round, with a consignment of 10 small cases each weighing 1.1 tonnes, the total tonnage charged by the PSA is 20 tonnes, instead of 11 tonnes as given in the bill of lading. In the days before metrication it was perhaps understandable that rounding off would ease such calculations, but now that we use the metric system this practice is quite unnecessary and there is no justification for overcharging consignees in this way. The consignees are then forced to pass on these extra charges to the customer and cost of the consignment is unnecessarily inflated. The Minister may feel that I have chosen an extreme case to illustrate my point, or that the amount of the extra charge is not great. But let me make it clear that if this practice is continued for all consignments for a whole year, this artificial profit must run into millions of dollars and it must therefore be a cause for inflation in the country. Another area where the PSA is overcharging the consignee is the practice of imposing railing charges irrespective of whether or not the goods have actually been railed. For clarification, let me explain -

Order. Would the Member for Telok Blangah please inform the House whether he is speaking with any vested interest?

No, Sir. For clarification, let me explain the procedure to be followed when a ship is discharging cargo at PSA. The cargo is initially stored in a godown near the wharf and PSA keeps records of the order of discharge of the cargo and its placement in the godown. A grace period of 72 hours is then allowed. If the consignee can clear his cargo within that time, then he does not incur railing or storage charges. This would seem simple enough. However, in practice the consignee is often not able to clear his cargo within the grace period through no fault of his own. He may have made every effort to locate and clear his cargo but is unable to do so because of factors such as: His cargo is buried under cargo belonging to other consignees and therefore cannot be reached; or the cargo is heavy and given the limited PSA mechanical handling capacity, no equipment is available to extricate his cargo: or even with the help of the PSA tracer he is unable to locate his cargo at all. The PSA, however, does not take any account of these difficulties, and from the 73rd hour onwards railing charges at $3.50 per tonne are imposed together with storage charges at 40 cents per tonne per day from the very first day. Regard is not given to the fact that no railing has been carried out and that the consignee has made every effort to clear his cargo. Thus the consignee is made to pay dearly for PSA's shortcomings. 6.00 p.m. Referring to my earlier example of the consignment shown on the bill of lading as 51 tonnes, let us compare the charges. If the consignment is charged at 51 tonnes and is cleared by the 72nd hour, the total PSA charges would be $102. If the same consignment is charged at 60 tonnes and is cleared on the 73rd hour, the total PSA charges would amount to the exorbitant sum of $426. From this simple exercise, it is evident that the PSA has made a profit of $324 or 318%. I can assure the House that examples such as I have given are commonplace. I would heartily agree that the PSA should impose railing and storage charges on consignments where the consignee has made no effort to clear his cargo within the grace period. But where every effort has been made by the consignee and through no fault of his own he has been unable to clear his cargo, then he should not be penalised. Containerisation of cargo has become a feature of modern cargo handling and the PSA is proud of its container handling facilities which have been built at great cost. In the discharge of containers, a procedure similar to that for general cargo is followed and a similar grace period of 72 hours is allowed. A consignee is informed by the PSA of the time at which he is to have his equipment standing by to receive his container, but as is often the case PSA's own equipment is not available at the stated time to clear the cargo and delays of anything up to 24 hours are common. This means that the consignee's own equipment which is expensive to run is left idle waiting for the PSA to do the job. In spite of their computer system, the PSA is often unable to locate a particular consignment and if the PSA takes, say, 10 days to locate and supply the necessary equipment to clear the container, then store rent is charged to the consignee from the very first hour at $12 per container per day for the 20-foot container and at $24 per container per day for the 40-foot container. This is in spite of the fact that the consignee has no control over the location or handling of his container within PSA and thus should not be held financially responsible for any delays. The PSA has four gates through which it can process outgoing containers but only one gate is always open. Whilst this is normally sufficient, it often happens that when several ships come in at the same time, there are a lot of containers to be cleared and still only one gate is open. A consignee may receive his container by the 71st hour but because of long queues at the gate he may have to queue up for three to four hours. Payment of storage charges is calculated according to the time the container arrives at the gate and payment is made in cash at that time. If because of waiting at the gate the 72 hours grace period has expired, the consignee must then pay store rent from the beginning. He will thus incur charges of $48 for a 20-foot container and $96 for a 40-foot container. In the business of clearing container cargo from PSA, the consignee is completely at the mercy of the PSA and effectively the PSA is making millions of dollars of profit by being inefficient. This profit is being made at the expense of the country as a whole. When all this unjust profit is deducted from the total, I wonder if the PSA would actually be making any profit at all. Would the Minister consider carrying out an investigation into the matters I have raised?

Sir, many accidents have been caused by inconsiderate driving and poor driving habits. Despite safety first campaigns and other measures, the rate of accidents has not shown any significant decrease. In order to minimise the rate of accidents and improve driving standards, we have to tackle the problem at source, i.e. the driving instructors and learner drivers. Measures should be taken to ensure that driving instructors are competent enough to give instruction not only on driving but also on road safety. At present, any individual who has a car, a table and a chair, can set up a business as a driving instructor. Some driving instructors even set up their business in coffee shops. The standard of tuition varies from instructor to instructor. This also depends on the fees payable, either by the hour or for a course. Tuition is confined mainly on how to drive a car in the shortest possible time. Road discipline is poor. Quite often, we come across driving instructors weaving in and out of traffic when they are not giving tuition. The road discipline of some driving instructors is atrocious. It is not surprising that many learner drivers fail in their test repeatedly due to the inadequate training. The blame is usually put on the ROV testers for being too strict. Sir, I would suggest that the Ministry should consider introducing the following measures to regulate the growth of driving schools and to protect the interests of learner drivers: (1) Licensing of driving instructors and schools. A driving instructor should have a clean driving record. Any person who has been involved in a major accident and is found negligent should be barred from giving driving instruction for a stipulated time. (2) A driving instructor or school must provide a syllabus of instruction approved by the relevant authority. (3) A learner driver must undergo stipulated hours of training for each stage of training provided in the syllabus. A learner driver should not be allowed to drive on public roads during the initial period of training. For this purpose selected fringe area car parks can be set aside. A different coloured "L" plate could be used for such novice learners. Perhaps the ROV should consider setting up a driving range like the one proposed by the Minister of Defence. The ROV should also consider installing driving simulators as in other countries for rental to learner drivers so as to improve their driving skills. The ROV could also make it a condition that every learner driver must undergo stipulated hours of training on a simulator before he is allowed to take a driving test. With such measures, road discipline and good driving habits can be improved, leading to less road accidents.

Sir, there has just been an increase in the Additional Registration Fee on private motor cars. This move is seen as a further deterrent against car ownership and congestion on the road. Singapore cannot be in a position like other cities where the roads are jammed up with cars and where commuting from one place to another is a real hazard. In fact, the achievements of the Government as a result of the Additional Registration Fee and the Area Licensing Scheme have made Singapore a model for other cities plagued by road congestion. The goal then is to curb the expansion of car ownership. However, the goal of limiting car ownership will be more meaningful if there is an alternative public transport system which is convenient and efficient. Unfortunately, Sir, the present alternatives, namely, the buses and the private taxis, do not meet these standards of convenience and efficiency. There is widespread dissatisfaction with these services. Something has to be done quickly to ameliorate the difficulties of the travelling public. I would like to hear from the Minister whether there is any comprehensive plan to provide an adequate, convenient and efficient public transport system for the people. For example, is the MRT system being considered and, if so, when is it likely to be implemented? In connection with the Singapore Bus Service, I would like to bring the Minister's attention to a matter which affects certain HDB and non-HDB housing estates. It concerns the rationalisation of the bus services. This process has involved the provision of a feeder service to and from the main terminal, and the re-routing and re-allocation of certain bus services. In the process of rationalisation, the Minister should ensure that the SBS takes the following points into consideration. Firstly, there should be no increase in the total fare for a journey, i.e. the charge of the feeder service plus the fare for the main journey should not exceed the original fare. An hon. Member: Hear, hear! Workers support it.

For example, in Serangoon Gardens estate the previous fare for a journey from the estate to the Shenton Way area was 50 cents. With the introduction of the feeder service, an additional 10 cents has to be paid by each passenger. This should not be the case. Secondly, there should be frequent and regular feeder buses especially during the peak periods so that there is no loss of travelling time for the total journey. For example, in Serangoon Gardens estate the interval between one feeder bus and another is presently about 10 minutes. This should be reduced to every five minutes especially during the peak hours. Thirdly, the SBS should maintain or even increase the services to various parts of the island as a result of rationalisation. Again taking the case of Serangoon Gardens estate, before rationalisation there was a bus service from Serangoon Gardens to the High Street/North Bridge Road area. But with the rationalisation, this service was removed and this has caused great inconvenience to the residents of Serangoon Gardens estate. Finally, Sir, I would like to raise the question whether the SBS would become a private limited company and, if so, how this would improve the public transport system to the benefit of the commuting public.

Sir, the major part of road safety campaigns is directed at the driver rather than at the vehicle. This is as it should be, for the driver is the root of the problem. Apart from drivers and pedestrian training, road safety can also be achieved by improving the standard of our roads and traffic markings. There is also another area that has not been given sufficient attention. Vehicle maintenance and inspection, with owners and drivers exercising constant vigilance to maintain vehicles in optimum condition, is an essential ingredient in the prevention of accidents on the roads. The need for a high standard of maintenance is all the more acute as cars are being built to travel at greater speeds. It is important to include preventive maintenance programmes with periodic inspections as part of a road safety campaign. Not a very large percentage of the total vehicle population is covered by voluntary programmes of preventive maintenance. I would like to believe that the average car owner, driver or operator would follow a preventive maintenance programme without the compulsion of legislation. Would the Hon. Minister consider introducing voluntary programmes for preventive maintenance of vehicles? This would include education and publicity in the form of pamphlets, radio and TV talks and so on. 6.15 p.m.

Sir, I would like to deal with the question of the taxi problem first, since it has been raised by quite a number of Members in this House. I would be dishonest to myself and to Members in this House if I were to say that we have no taxi problems or that we have enough taxis. With higher standards of living over these years, the demand for taxis has been growing. Unfortunately, the supply of taxis has not kept pace with the demand. With the increase in tourist arrivals and our GDP growth rate, coupled with the increasing restraints on private cars, the situation has worsened. At the present moment, I would say that we are short of about 2,000 taxis.

Point of clarification, Sir. At this point of time I am wondering whether I could be given clarification on how many licensed taxis there are on the road, how many taxi drivers there are to-date, and how many taxi drivers were licensed monthly during the last six months and how many taxi drivers will be licensed monthly for the next six months?

At present, there are 6,318 taxis on the register. There are now a total of 14,507 licensed taxi drivers. The issue of additional driver's licences commencing six months ago as at September 1977 are as follows. There are eight licences for September 1977: 23 for October; 82 for November; 35 for December; 84 for January 1978 and 141 for February. For the next six months, the projected taxi driver's licences to be issued will be 200 for this month of March, 250 for April, 300 for May. 300 for June, 350 for July and 350 for August. Sir, may I come back to the problem of taxi shortage. We have been aware of this shortage for over a year now. Therefore, early last year my Ministry announced that we would increase the taxi fleet by 2,000 from the then taxi fleet of 5,500 to 7,500. At that time when we announced the increase, we were not sure what the actual shortfalls were and what the actual increase should be. Studies were carried out concurrently. Based on studies in metropolitan areas of busy cities in the world, we have come to a very rough estimate of what the shortfall is today. As I have mentioned, we are about 2,000 taxis short. We will be increasing the fleet by another 1,400 this year. That means it would bring us to 7,500 by October 1978. By then we would still be short of roughly 800-900 taxis. Because of the taxi shortage, the taxi drivers earnings have risen. A taxi driver, therefore, needs only to drive for a shorter number of hours to earn the same income as before. This has further accentuated the taxi shortage problem. Furthermore, the new taxis which we have been introducing on to the roads recently tend to run for a shorter number of hours than the old taxis which are replaced, because new taxis have to be run in gradually. Owners prefer to do this themselves. The new taxis, therefore, run on only one shift, instead of two shifts. This further compounds the shortage problem. There is also a shortage of relief drivers, as a result of the Registry of Vehicles' inability to train sufficient drivers to keep pace with the increases in the taxi fleet. Because of the lack of supporting staff in ROV and also in the NTUC, we have not been able to expand the taxi fleet according to schedule. Members would realise from the figures I have quoted that although last year we announced that we would increase the taxi fl()et by 2,000, so far for the whole of last year we were able to increase by only about 600 taxis. The balance of 1,400 taxis originally was planned to be introduced on to our roads by the end of 1979 which has now been brought forward to October 1978. This was partly due to the lead time problem in the early stage where it was necessary to negotiate for the purchase of taxis. ROV will have to organise itself to train more taxi drivers and NTUC will have to organise and beef up its management to look after the increase in the taxi fleet. To alleviate the taxi shortage, my Ministry is considering the following measures. First, to liberalise the issue of taxi driver's licence. Second, to further increase the taxi fleet; we will have to examine how many more taxis will be needed after October 1978 this year. Third, to examine the possibility of issuing additional taxi licences and taxis to organisations such as STPB, SILO, SATS or SBS, to complement the efforts of NTUC if NTUC management could not be beefed up soon enough to cater for the demand. Fourth, to set up an advisory board to look into the problems encountered by taxi owners and drivers as a result of the fleet expansion. Fifth, to strengthen the ROV staff to plan for the improvement and efficient running of taxi services in the long term. In order to prevent fluctuation in taxi earnings in view of the proposed expansion, the taxi situation will be closely monitored. Adjustments will be made where necessary. The Member for Boon Lay mentioned about the ARF increase from 100% to 126%. He questioned whether this has the desirable-effect. The Member should remember that ARF for private cars was last increased from 55% to 100% at the end of 1975. The effect of this was reflected in the net decrease in the private car population. Quite rightly, the Member for Boon Lay pointed out that the decrease has decreased. That means the actual decrease in the growth of cars has been reduced from 6,581 in 1976 to 509 in 1977. But this does not actually reflect the true position. The replacement of cars under the PAR F scheme is allowed within six months from the date of deregistration of old cars. So there is no need to register a new car straightaway. The car owner can scrap the old car first. This time lag resulted in a greater number of new cars in 1977 than had been expected. I agree with the Member that increasing the ARF alone will not solve the problem. Other measures such as improving the public transport services and taxis are necessary to complement the ARF. The Member for Boon Lay also touched on the provisional licence and suggested that learner-drivers should be decentralised to reduce the congestion. At present there are three types of restrictions which learner-drivers have to observe. These are: Prohibition of driving along gazetted busy roads and specific places such as hospitals and so on. Prohibition of driving along certain gazetted roads during the day-time from 7.30 a.m. in the morning to 7.30 p.m. at night. Prohibition of driving along certain gazetted roads during the morning, mid-day and evening peak hours. For the particular problem at Queenstown which the Member mentioned, 13 roads in the Queenstown, Leng Kee, Bukit Merah and Alexandra areas have been identified for prohibition, after discussion with the Traffic Police and HDB management. These roads will be gazetted in May this year. ROV, as he is probably aware, has taken steps to set up smaller driving centres all over the island. With decentralisation the situation should improve. One such driving centre was set up in Jurong Sports Stadium in 1977. Driving tests for lorries and cranes which were formerly conducted in Queenstown are now being held in Jurong. This has helped to ease congestion in Queenstown considerably. Maxwell Road Test Centre will also be relocated and divided into two smaller centres at Jalan Ubi and at Jalan Toa Payoh Industrial Estate in May this year. ROV is also examining the possibility of either reducing the size of Queenstown Driving Test Centre or relocating this to a non-residential area. 6.30 p.m. Sir, the Member for Anson is anxious to know the progress of the videophone service. Videophone service is presently available in advanced countries like Japan, Europe and the United States on a very limited scale, mainly for field trial purposes. The cost of providing this service is still very high and the experience of these countries shows that the videophone service will not be popular until this service can be provided at a reasonable cost. With the advancement of micro-electronic technology and the development of mass-production techniques in the electronic industry, it is envisaged that the cost of providing videophone service will be reduced in time to come. The Telecommunication Authority of Singapore is keen to investigate into the feasibility of introducing videophone service which is one of the many service capabilities of the wide-band net-work brought about by the recent technological development. The possibility of replacing some conventional copper cables by just one high capacity optical fibre cable brings this possibility cheaper and nearer. TAS is already conducting field trials with optical fibres. To prepare for this new technology, TAS plans to instal a pilot videophone system at the new Telecoms headquarters for internal use in 1979-80. The object of this field trial is to enable the Telecommunication Authority to gain first-hand experience in the planning and operation of videophone service. If the pilot system is found successful, TAS will implement a wide-band network in Singapore which will be able to carry not only video service but voice, data and facsimile services economically to form an integrated telecommunication system. I can assure the Member that I am just as anxious as he is to see this new service coming into operation. The PSA billing system has come under question by the Member for Telok Blangah. PSA grants a 72-hour free storage period which is calculated from the end of the shift in which the last cargo is discharged from the ship in the case of import cargo, and from the end of the shift in which storage commences till the end of the shift in which the vessel is berthed in the case of export cargo. The actual free storage period given is therefore much longer than 72 hours. If the 72 hours are exceeded, as the Member pointed out, store rent is payable at the rate of 40 cents per day for the first week; $1 per day for the second week; $7.50 per week for the third and every subsequent week. The progressive rate is to encourage fast delivery so as to prevent clogging up of transit sheds and to prevent congestion in our port. For longer term storage, warehouse space at 10 cents per tonne per day is readily available to Po" users upon application. What the Member has alleged is not entirely true because if the delay in the provision of lifting machine is caused by PSA, then PSA will waive the store rent. If he has any particular or specific cases of this complaint, I would be pleased if he would bring them to my attention and I will refer them to PSA for investigation. No removal charge is levied on import cargo if it is stored up to seven days from the date of completion of discharge. The removal charge at $3.50 per tonne is only payable after seven days and is intended to deter the consignee from congesting our transit sheds. On the question of rounding up to six tonnes if the actual tonnage is 5.1 tonnes, it is not true. PSA tariff is on a tonne or part thereof basis. If the consignment is 5 1/2 tonnes it will be rounded up to six tonnes but if the consignment is 5.4 tonnes or less, it will be charged for five tonnes. If the hon. Member has any other better suggestions to further improve the system, I am sure the PSA would be pleased to hear them. Quite a number of Members raised problems in SBS. The Member for Anson has complimented on the improvements that have been made so far. He wishes to see more direct bus services from Marine Parade to Telok Blangah. The Member for Serangoon Gardens also wishes to see bus services from Serangoon Gardens to High Street. I am sure the Member for Sembawang also wishes to see bus services from Sembawang to Shenton Way.

I will speak on this later on.

Unfortunately, Sir, it is not feasible or possible to provide direct bus services from any point in the island to every point or to every destination in the Republic. It will be very costly and a waste of resources if SBS provides such services. Fares would have to be increased. However, direct services will be provided if there is a sufficient demand for the service. In the example brought up by the Member for Anson, a commuter from Marine Parade needs to make only one transfer to reach his destination. However, if SBS, after monitoring the demand, finds that a direct service is justified, a direct service will be introduced. It is the same as in the case raised by the Member for Serangoon Gardens. The Member for Anson also mentioned about littering by commuters. I wish to mention that SBS has taken steps and measures to reduce the need to issue bus tickets so as to reduce this littering nuisance. Firstly, the introduction of monthly season tickets to school children and certain categories of Government employees has reduced the total daily sale of tickets by about 12% to 15%. SBS is also examining the possibility of selling season tickets to students of institutes of higher learning and members of the public. This will further reduce the daily issue of tickets. More and more buses are being converted into a one-man operation which will further cut down the issue of tickets, because they are on fixed fares and no tickets will be issued. At the moment, there are about 150 buses on a one- man operation. Members will be pleased to know that sweepers are stationed at all the bus terminals to sweep and collect used tickets for proper disposal. Every bus is provided with a litter box for the collection of used tickets. The Member also complained about taxi services which I have already mentioned earlier. He spoke about his experience and he knows of taxi drivers refusing to pick up fares. I would like to remind him again that should he come across such instances again, please let us have detailed information of the taxi because this is a serious offence and if the driver is found guilty he is liable to have his licence suspended. The Member for Serangoon Gardens also mentioned about the rationalised bus services. The rationalisation of bus services, as he correctly pointed out, incorporates the feeder services concept. This has been necessitated by economic and operational considerations. Less buses are required to operate when this re-scheduling of services takes place under this rationalisation scheme. Therefore, the buses withdrawn are then ploughed back into the system to improve frequencies of the services, especially during peak hours. The buses are also used to provide new services to new housing estates. This has consequently led to a more efficient service to the public and will continue to improve as and when more of such services are introduced. The commuter had in the past enjoyed low fares because they were enjoying hidden subsidies from SBS. This was because fare stages were not counted within the town or the estate. The higher cost of looping the services around the town was, therefore, not reflected in the fares paid by the commuters. Therefore, when the rationalisation system is introduced, they feel the pinch. For this reason, it would not be possible for SBS to consider a fare reduction to offset the additional fares paid on feeder services when it is introduced, SBS has been asked to examine the feasibility of introducing monthly season pass or concessionary tickets on feeder services to minimise the impact of this indirect bus fare increase. 6.45 p.m. Both the Members for Serangoon Gardens and Anson have asked about the floating of SBS company. The Government is now finalising plans to convert the SBS into a public limited company with the intention of throwing open the ownership of the bus company to the public. The Ministries of Communications and Finance will make an announcement when the scheme is finalised. This will be pretty soon, probably in the next few days or so. It would be premature for me to make a detailed announcement at this stage. A number of Members have asked about the progress of our Mass Rapid Transit Study. As Members will recollect, the Singapore Mass Rapid Transit Study was undertaken with the assistance from the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) and the World Bank has acted as executive agency for the UNDP. It was carried out in two phases by the consultant firm, Wilbur Smith and Associates. Phase I of the study which was completed in 1974 examined five mass transit alternatives, including all-bus and bus-rail systems. The bus-rail system was recommended for more detailed evaluation in the Phase II study. The feasibility of having such a system with a rail-based mass rapid transit network was established. Analytical work on the Phase II was completed in March 1976. That was almost two years ago. A draft report was put up by the Consultants for review by the World Bank. But because of protracted discussions between the World Bank and the Consultants, the review dragged on for a much longer time than was expected. The Phase II Report was only finalised at the end of 1977. The Consultants are now printing the report for submission to the Singapore Government. The Report will remain confidential for the time being, pending a decision from the Government. The salient features of the Report will be made public when it is time. An hon. Member: Another five years!

It is significant to note that the Consultants have treated the MRT purely as a transportation project. Its findings are therefore confined to the narrow view of engineering and financial feasibility of the project. In reality, it is not as simple as that because MRT implementation has much wider implications. A decision can only be taken after all factors have been considered. My Ministry and the Ministries of National Development and Finance have carried out in-house studies on the coordination and integration of MRT into a comprehensive land use scheme in keeping with the overall island-wide development concept plan. As MRT implementation is expected to affect many other factors besides transport, these studies will provide information on an overall basis for a decision on MRT. Careful consideration has to be given not only, to its financial viability but also to its impact on development planning and the economy in general. Right now, MRT right-of-way is being safeguarded to keep open the option for MRT. Further design and engineering studies will be carried out to obtain a set of technically accurate data on MRT track and station requirements. This is needed to permit safeguarding to be restricted to a minimum area of land required for MRT use and allow development to take place in a way so as not to increase unnecessarily the cost of MRT construction later on. We share the views of hon. Members that the longer the project is delayed the higher the cost will be because of inflation. It has to be noted, however, that from a national perspective the cost of inflation, foregone on MRT if it is built now, will be borne by other projects which have to be postponed because capital and labour are spent on MRT first. When to build MRT, therefore, depends on economic growth and ensuing transport demands. A guiding principle for commencement of MRT construction is to build only when it becomes economically less of a luxury and more of a necessity. Based on current GDP growth rate projection of between 6% and 8% per annum over the next five years, we might not have to begin construction until the mid-1980s. Nevertheless, further design and engineering studies will be undertaken so that we can be ready for the MRT implementation when the time comes. Coming back to the points raised by the Members for Toa Payoh and Potong Pasir on the licensing of driving instructors and driving schools, I agree with the Members' observation that the standard of driving instruction has declined. In line with our attempts to improve driving skills, my Ministry has examined the possibility of licensing instructors so that learner drivers can be trained by properly qualified instructors. I am pleased to announce that Government has decided to license all driving instructors. Under the scheme no driving instructor will be allowed to give instruction for reward unless he is a licensed instructor. As the successful completion of a training course is one of.the prerequisites for the issue of a licence, all driving instructors will be required to undergo a training course which will be conducted by the ROV. For those driving instructors who have completed a driving instructor course conducted by the Adult Education Board in the past, an accelerated course will be conducted for them. These instructors will be required to undergo a shorter training course with emphasis on practical driving techniques. Driving schools will also be licensed. They will be required to employ only licensed driving instructors. Details of the course are being finalised and will be announced by the ROV in the next few days. The licensing scheme will commence within 18 months after the date of commencement of the training course. The object of licensing instructors is to ensure that a high standard of driving instruction is achieved, and it is hoped that in this way the skill of learner drivers will be upgraded. 6.50 p.m.

The Member for Toa Payoh has also mentioned about the use of simulators. There is no plan to instal driving simulators in the ROV as the ROV does not provide instruction for learner drivers. However, driving schools are free to make use of teaching aids such as simulators. I believe some of the driving schools do have simulators for instructional purposes. I think I have covered all the points, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I do not believe the Hon. Senior Minister of State had the correct up-to-date information regarding the PSA billing system. In fact, everything that I have said is currently practised. For instance, the rounding up of tonnage. He has said that any figure below 0.5 of a tonne is rounded down, and if it is above 0.5 of a tonne it is rounded up. But in practice the PSA will charge; whether it is 0.01 of a tonne above or below a tonne, it is always rounded up to the nearest tonne. Secondly, he says that the railing charges will only come into operation after seven days. This was the case up to last year. But sometime in the middle of last year, PSA changed the rule and just arbitrarily says; "After 72 hours, regardless of whether the goods are on rail or not railing charges will be charged." He has also said that if the inability to clear the cargo lies with PSA, then PSA will waive the charges. Unfortunately, in practice this is not so. The PSA completely refuses to listen to the consignees and will continue to charge them. One of the points I have raised concerns the container storage inside the PSA which is supposed to be computerised. Sometimes the computer has a malfunction and the PSA cannot find the container. When it is finally found, say, ten days later, the PSA will still charge storage fees as from the first day. It is the PSA's fault and yet it imposes a charge. I would ask the Senior Minister of State whether he could please make an investigation. It is not an isolated case. This happens daily for every consignment. I cannot pick one particular instance. He can go to any importer or any transport agency and they can give him ten examples in one day. I think there is a need for an investigation into this matter.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I believe my question has not been answered by the Senior Minister of State. I wish to know whether he would consider introducing voluntary programmes for preventive maintenance of vehicles, including education, publicity in the form of pamphlets, television and radio programmes, etc. 7.00 p.m.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I am a little bit disappointed to hear from the Hon. Senior Minister of State that construction work for the MRT will probably begin in the mid-1980s. And there is always the possibility that it might be delayed further. My Friend, the hon. Member for Kim Seng, just remarked that some of us might be too old to get into the mass rapid transit system. It might be too fast for us by the time it is completed. We might be too old and feeble to benefit from this system provided we are still alive by then. Sir, the point is this. At this juncture, there is enough evidence to indicate that as far as the public transport system is concerned, it is inadequate to cater for the commuters. We are now restricting car ownership. Life is miserable for car owners. Many of them will be forced to give up their cars. This is certainly going to increase the number of the travelling public, and this does not take into account the younger generation of Singaporeans coming into the scene. So what do we do from now till the time the MRT is ready? We need the MRT to relieve us of some of our travelling miseries. So why the dragging of feet on this project? The MRT study began in 1972. This is 1978. Six years have elapsed. I quite realise that a project like the MRT has wide ramifications in all respects, financial, in terms of overall national planning, economic development and so forth. There are a lot of engineering factors to take into account, land usage and what have you. But surely no matter how wide these ramifications are and how all these factors have to be taken into account, a period of six years is too long a time. After six years, we still have not even started digging the tunnel. We have to wait till 1985 just to see the tractors and the workmen digging the land and so on. Sir, even in this year's estimates of expenditure, the item "MRT" has completely disappeared. If they keep that item alive, at least we have some hope of seeing a MRT. Even that item has disappeared, and the idea of a MRT might slowly disappear completely from the scene.

Sir, I must clarify a point which the Member for Moulmein mentioned. He said that I was concerned about the health of some Members when the MRT comes on the scene. I was actually having in mind the interest of the Members or Sembawang and Potong Pasir! On a more serious note about the MRT. I wish to echo the views expressed by my colleague next to me, and I say that five or six years of talk, yet more talk - Phase 1. Phase 1 1/2. Phase II - is too long. It looks like going on to Phase 2 1/2 and Phase III. And as the millions start rolling out, we still have not yet got any clear-cut notion as to whether the MRT is on or off. Sir, the idea of the MRT was really to provide some form of rapid mass transit and to provide a more efficient, less space-occupying means for good communication, and this was used as one of the excuses to discourage private car ownership. There was this talk which we hear every so often about the need to clamp down on private car ownership, the need to make sure that the roads are built for public transport and that we should keep the car population down. That is true. It is fair if we have a good, decent public transport system. But up till today, we still have not solved this problem of providing an alternative means of efficient transport. Therefore, a good number of Singaporeans have to think of ways and means of getting transportation by paying heavily for car ownership. I think most Singaporeans are more than happy to absolve themselves from the burden of having to pay heavily on buying cars. But as today there is hardly any choice. That really brings me to the question of Additional Registration Fee and the laudable intentions so ably summarised as to discourage car ownership. In a sense, it has succeeded and has succeeded very well. The total car population has not really gone up. It has remained static; in fact, less than the official figure of 140,000 cars although one can quibble and say, "New cars are being registered with greater rapidity than last year." Therefore, I have a quaint suspicion that the Ministry of Finance will jump upon this fact as an excellent means of generating more revenue. The excuse is to discourage car ownership. We are all familiar with the statement made by the Senior Minister of State for Communications recently and given publicity in the press (Straits Times, 13th March, 1978). A rhetoric question, "Is Singapore built for cars or for people?" The conclusion arrived at was that Singapore is built for people. Well, I think it is true that Singapore is built for the people. But I also believe that cars are built for people too. Why can we not have a Singapore that is built for people and cars? An hon. Member: People drive cars!

No, not just people with cars. It is for people and also for people with cars. Sir, in that same speech, the Hon. Senior Minister of State was also quoted to have said that there may be various steps taken in future to further discourage car ownership. If I remember him correctly, he said that the ARF may be reviewed periodically. We have just had the second step, an addition of 25% to the ARF. Do I take it that the next instalment of 25% might be coming soon? Perhaps the Senior Minister of State might want to elaborate on that point. I get the feeling that any additional warning in this direction might lead to a lot of panic outside. Could I get his comments on those two points? Thirdly, what is the actual car population that will satisfy the Ministry of Communications and the Ministry of Finance?

Sir, may I just reiterate the point that I made with regard to the rationalisation of the bus service. I agree with the Senior Minister of State that it is not possible for the SBS to provide direct services from one place to every part of the city. But when I quoted the case of Serangoon Gardens, I was referring to a service that was already provided before the rationalisation of the bus service. What has happened is that as a result of this introduction of the feeder service, the direct service from Serangoon Gardens estate to High Street/North Bridge Road area was removed. This, of course, has caused great inconvenience for many who had used that particular service for a number of years. I am not asking for a new service. What I am saying is that in the process of rationalisation, what has already been in service should not be removed. An hon. Member: Correct!

Sir, just one minor point. I really enjoyed that very eloquent address by the Member for Kim Seng. He has got a way about him that turns me on. I think I should recommend him to this very good book. The Practice of Economic Growth by Dr Goh Keng Swee. I would also like him to read Part IV, Miscellaneous, Chapter 30, Zero Growth Rate for Private Motor Vehicles. It is a very interesting article and maybe it could make him -

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I think the Member is on the wrong side of this House!

Sir, even if we are to decide to go ahead with MRT now, it would take us at least another four years before we could start ground-breaking. We need at least two years to do the engineering studies and design and another two years to prepare all the contract documents and so on. So five or six years is not that far away. For the information of the Member for Kim Seng, the article he quoted was, unfortunately, written by me two years ago in my capacity as an urban planner.

Sir, on a point of clarification. How come the newspapers seem to be reporting old news?

It is not entirely the fault of newspapers. The publishers of the journal had difficulty in getting enough articles for the journal to be printed in time. I wish it had come out two years ago. The Member raised the question on car population. Unfortunately, I do not have the actual figures. It is roughly about 135,000 or 136,000. If the Member could submit a question for oral or written answer, I will give him the full details. 7.15 p.m. The Member for Potong Pasir would like to see publicity given on the necessity of proper maintenance of vehicles.

Voluntary programmes for a start.

I believe the Adult Education Board is doing it now. If the Member for Potong Pasir is really keen, he could come and sit in the Working Committee. The Member for Telok Blangah disagreed with my explanation. I would be pleased if he could refer specific cases to me. What I had explained to him just now is what is in practice in PSA. It could not have been cooked up just to answer his question. As I have said, it is very difficult to investigate unless he could provide specific cases and with evidence.

It is in practice as a norm now, Sir. There are so many cases -

If there are so many cases, would it not be so much easier for you to provide a specific case, Mr Haleem?

The Member for Serangoon Gardens requested a direct bus service to High Street -

Point of clarification, Sir. It is not a request. It is to revert to the original bus service, which was there before the rationalisation.

I will ask the SBS to look into this. If the demand justifies the reversion, it will be implemented.

Sir, I notice that there are still a lot of amendments under the Ministry of Communications. Right now, I am holding the traffic. As I do not want to take "six years" before I say, "i beg leave to withdraw my amendment", I would like to withdraw the amendment now so that I can clear the traffic for the other Members to move their amendments. Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head O be reduced by $10 in respect of item 1210 of Subhead Code OB -01 of the Main Estimates. Sir, allow me to speak on a matter which concerns our maritime officers. A recent report in a local English daily made interesting but rather disturbing reading. It referred to the plight of our local maritime officers. Apparently these local officers have been by-passed or neglected when it came to recruitment of shipping crews by the foreign-owned locally registered ship. It is alleged that the nod is more often than not given to foreigners, leaving our very own Singaporean officers unhappy and frustrated. To add insult to injury, the story is that these foreigners who are recruited here in the Republic are actually here in Singapore on social visit passes. If the story is true the damage, in terms of national image and pride, would be incalculable. A further very disconcerting happening is the fact that this whole question has actually been brought to the attention of the relevant authorities, but in vain. No interview of any kind has been accorded to the unemployed officers. Nothing positive or concrete has resulted from the discussions held with the authorities concerned. The excuse given by the authorities is that our boys are "choosy and fussy" and that these officers should easily find employment as "jobs are easy to come by". This is unbelievable. It is inconceivable that our own Singaporean officers should be accorded such shabby treatment. It just does not make sense. Where are we heading for? Surely there is an urgent need to institute corrective action. Yet another cause for serious concern is the fact that these maritime officers are not covered by any industrial or maritime Act whatsoever, unlike other seamen, port workers, etc. They are thus left wide open to the tender mercy of exploiters of the situation. They are left totally unprotected. They have no recourse to appeal, no one to turn to in their plight and suffering. They are helpless. This is a most unfair and an unhealthy state of affairs. It smacks of downright injustice. Imagine the morale of these officers. It should not be too difficult to imagine the magnitude of their grievance, the extent of their frustration, and the seriousness of their position. This matter seems to be riddled with problems, all because these officers have been neglected and forgotten. The very sore point is the fact that these officers have to find jobs through "brokers", who extract, naturally, commission. Why should this be the case? It is entirely wrong. It is a form of blackmail, a form of blood-sucking. It should be stamped out, and quickly, before it gets too deep-rooted and becomes widespread. Sir, these local officers are not suggesting that expatriate officers should be prohibited from seeking employment in Singapore. But if recruitment is done in Singapore, priority should be given to local officers. This is only logical and fair. There is not much use if the Marine Department merely "encourages" shipowners to employ local qualified officers. It should be a requirement. Only when the required local officers are not available should foreigners be considered. In any case, is it not against the law for social visit pass holders to obtain employment here? This is a serious matter and the authorities concerned should look into it, put a stop to it, and come out with a statement of assurance that it will no longer be tolerated. Lastly, I suggest that these local officers be placed under the National Maritime Board, so that their welfare will at least be looked after and their interests safeguarded. This can be done by a simple amendment to the Maritime Board Act. Let us show some consideration for our own citizens, our own officers, our own people. Up to now this has all been glaringly and sadly lacking. This is a big shame indeed. Under the circumstances, Sir, I beg to move.

Sir, we are all concerned for our own citizens. It is not true to say that the local ship's officers are not covered by any Act. Actually, the local ship's officers are certificated under the Merchant Shipping Act. They are therefore recognised for the purposes of the Act. Ships going to sea from Singapore are required to carry officers duly certificated under the Act. In the case of foreign ships, certificates of competency granted by the competent authority of a flag-state are accepted as having the corresponding value to certificates of competency granted under our own Merchant Shipping Act. This has to be so because of the very nature of shipping as a mode of international transportation. It would be unreasonable of us to stipulate that foreign ships calling at Singapore should employ only local ship's officers. If we do so, we may not have foreign ships calling here any more. If they call here and could not get enough ship's officers to man their ships, then they would go somewhere else. Generally speaking, employment opportunities at sea are not difficult to come by, provided the officers and seamen have the necessary discipline and are not too choosy in their jobs.

Sir, just to elucidate what the Member for Bedok has said, I would like to add to his contribution. The National Maritime Board was incorporated on the 1st January, 1973. Through the amalgamation of the Seamen's Registry Board and Seafarers' Welfare Board, the Singapore Mariners' Club, the Singapore Sailors' Institute and the Seamen's Lodging-Houses Licensing Authority, the main functions of the Board, as laid down under the National Maritime Board Act, 1972, are, among other things, "to promote and regulate employment of seamen and to inaugurate and administer welfare and training schemes for them." The National Maritime Board Act provides that seamen may be signed on in Singapore only through the Board. The Board therefore registers and supplies seamen to ships. Ship's officers, however, are not eligible for registration by the Board. I believe there is a distinction between officers and able-bodied seamen. But I do not believe that ship's officers should be penalised for not being given the service extended to seamen in the form of registration and supply to ships. Could the Minister therefore consider either amending the legislation to give ship's officers these services or administratively correcting the anomaly?

Sir, it is true that National Maritime Board deals with seamen and not officers. As far as seamen's employment opportunity is concerned, it is to a certain extent looked after and safeguarded by the National Maritime Board. On the matter of officers to be covered by the Board, in the first place the Board was not set up for that purpose. This would have to be looked into and raised by the officers themselves as to whether they want it to be so. I will ask the Board to look into the matter.

Sir, in view of the satisfactory reply given by the Senior Minister of State, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head O be reduced by $10 in respect of item 1210 of Subhead Code OB-03 of the Main Estimates. Sir, a matter of utmost importance is the safety of our seamen whilst they are at sea. Insufficient attention is being paid to this. I will not elaborate on the health and safety hazards our seamen are facing for I am most certain the very learned Hon. Senior Minister of State is very conversant with that. I would like to plead on behalf of our seamen that health and safety matters be given more consideration. The surveillance and enforcement of safety measures on ships must be improved.

Sir, Singapore registered ships are actually governed by international safety standards. They have to conform with international safety standards backed by the inter-governmental maritime consultative organisations, that is, the International Conventions for Safety of Life at Sea, 1960; the International Convention on Loadline, 1966; the International Regulations for Prevention of Collision at Sea of 1972. The surveyors from the Maritime Department together with surveyors from six international classification societies inspect our ships regularly to ensure that these international safety standards are maintained.

I think that is a satisfactory answer, Sir. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn. 7.30 p.m.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head O be reduced by $10 in respect of item 8103 of Subhead Code OC-OZ of the Development Estimates. Sir, money spent on the development of the new arrival hall at the airport is certainly worth it, considering the comfort and convenience it brings to the weary traveller. Nothing can be more exasperating to a traveller than to find at the end of a long tiring journey, long queues of passengers waiting for their health papers, passports and luggage, to be cleared by the relevant authorities. The new arrival hall at the airport certainly has brought about a smoother and quicker flow of passengers at the different check points, much to the satisfaction of all. The Ministry of Communications has also deviated from its past policy of letting out the shops at the arrival hall on a tender basis. Now only shops, reputable in providing good services and reliable products at reasonable prices, are offered accommodation at the new arrival hall. This is a far-sighted policy by the Ministry of Communications and deserves commendation. This is certainly a positive move aimed at enhancing the image of Singapore internationally as a shopping paradise, an image that is so vital in our tourist promotion. It is important that the Ministry keeps tabs on these shops to ensure that they continue to provide the same services at reasonable prices. There is, however, some complaint about the inadequate taxi service at the new arrival hall. How valid is the complaint? Is the Minister satisfied with the present taxi service there, or is he taking steps to improve the service further? Sir, on the whole, the Ministry of Communications has done a very good job in the planning and the development of the new arrival hall. Its spaciousness, its efficient services and its various amenities will certainly bring more comfort and convenience to travellers coming to Singapore, and all these help to create in them very favourable first impressions of Singapore. We all know, Sir, satisfied tourists are just as important to us as the millions of dollars we spend on tourist promotion.

Sir, I would like to thank the Member for Moulmein for his compliments on the way we managed the shops at the airport. That is the objective of the policy to make Singapore a shopping paradise in this part of the region and the world and we cannot agree with him more that a satisfied tourist is the best ambassador for our tourist trade. I come now to the question of taxi service at the airport. Owing to Singapore's geographical location and restriction of operating hours at some of the international airports, most airline operators find that they have to schedule their aircraft to Singapore between 6.00 p.m. and 10.00 p.m. This causes a very sharp peak at the airport in the evening. This is the main cause of the taxi problem at the airport. During the peak period every facility at the airport is stretched to the limit. Very often, more than 10 aircraft would land within an hour during the evening peak and they usually include three or four wide-bodied jets, the jumbos, etc. which carry 300 to 400 passengers. Under these circumstances, 100 or 200 taxis waiting to pick up the passengers would be insufficient during the peak hour. It is difficult to force or encourage taxi drivers to go to the airport as much as we would like to because there is a limit to this coaxing without special incentives, given the fact that there is equally good demand for taxis in town. Since the response from the taxi operators has not been very encouraging, a new airport shuttle bus service to town is expected to operate later this year. This new airport bus service will provide regular bus services between the airport and major hotels in town at frequent intervals. The new airport bus company is a joint venture spearheaded by the Singapore Tourist Promotion Board together with the Singapore Bus Service Ltd., the Singapore Airport Terminal Services, tour operators and various hotels in town. The new fleet of luxurious airport buses will be fully air-conditioned with appropriate baggage compartments for a comfortable ride by passengers and we hope that, with this new service provided, the waiting time for passengers would be cut down and less inconvenience caused.

Sir, in view of the Senior Minister of State's reply, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head O be reduced by $10 in respect of Subhead Code OC-02 of the Development Estimates. Sir, we have been told that the Changi Airport will bring us into the 21st century and that planning for this airport has taken care of all contingencies right up to the 21st century. I seem to remember that the same words were said when Paya Lebar Airport was built and that it was supposed to last for about 30 years. Within 10 years we already have problems and just 20 years after the building of Paya Lebar Airport we will be moving to Changi. I wonder if adequate provision has been made for Changi Airport to cater for any expansion that may be required and if so, whether this expansion will be done ahead of time. In other words, like the Paya Lebar Airport, the new arrival hall was built only when there was insufficient room. And within two years of building this arrival hall we have to abandon it as we am moving it to Changi. It is the same with the navigational aids that will be installed at Changi Airport. I hope that these aids are sufficiently advanced so that they will not be obsolete on the day it begins operation. The aids to navigation at our airport must be really up to-date so that the record of Singapore's safety factor will be maintained. Would the Minister elaborate and ensure that Changi airport will cope with the demands of Singapore in the 21st century?

Sir, thank you for allowing me to speak on this subhead. Before I say a few words, I would like to assure Members of the House that I have no vested interest in this subject. Sir, Singapore is at the cross-roads between East and West and she is also strategically located in the centre of Southeast Asia. As such, she is an important point in air transportation. In recent years, statistics showed an increase in air traffic movement. This increase is expected to continue at a higher rate as is forecasted by various bodies involved in airport development. Past records and future forecasts in air traffic movements are important statistics for airport authorities because they indicate the facilities required in the airport. Today our airport, particularly at the departure terminal, is plagued with numerous problems. It is very congested at certain times of the day. The congestion in the passenger terminal has been relieved to a certain extent by the completion of the New Arrival Block. However, the situation at the departure area is still unbearable. If we were to visit the airport, we will see not only congestion but also confusion in the departure terminal during peak hours. Certainly, some measures can be introduced to ease the problems. We see large signboards reading "Entrance for Passengers only" prominently displayed at all entrances leading to the airline counters, but no one seems to take notice of them. As a result, the area is packed with more well-wishers than passengers, thus creating the congestion and confusion. In the midst of this congestion and confusion, thieving and pickpocketing could arise and, in fact, I believe these incidents are going on. To alleviate this problem, there should be effective control of all the entrances leading to the airline counters. Perhaps guards can be positioned to man the entrances. These guards should see that only people with air tickets are allowed to enter. Well-wishers should be segregated from the passengers. 7.45 p.m. Knowing that the volume of passengers is growing year after year and that the capacity of our airport is limited, it is surprising to note that plans to expand the airport facilities were obviously drawn up late. The New Arrival Block was only completed towards the latter part of last year and was put into operation sometime in December last. Modifications to the present Departure Block are now under way. Obviously plans for the expansion of the airport facilities were decided only when the present facilities at the airport were already taxed to their limit. Why did the relevant authorities make such late decisions for expansion of this Airport? Although the expansion is necessary to meet the present demand, I wonder whether this expansion should be continued on a large scale. May I know from the Senior Minister of State whether it is worthwhile spending so much money on expanding the present airport when it will be shifted to Changi in 2 to 2 1/2 years' time. How are we going to utilise the present facilities when the airport is shifted to Changi? Surely, these facilities will not be left idle or it will be a tremendous waste of public funds.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Member for Telok Blangah wishes an assurance that the most advanced types of navigational aids and equipment will be installed and provided at the Changi Airport. I hereby give him that assurance. We have been sending teams of engineers and technicians overseas to various airports to study the latest airport design and equipment used. When the Changi Airport is put into service with two runways, I assure him that it will be able to handle civil air traffic well into the 21st century. In the Master Plan for Changi Airport, sufficient land has been set aside for the expansion of the passenger terminal and cargo buildings. When the airport opens in 1980-81, the first passenger terminal building will be able to handle a maximum of 10 million passenger movements annually. With more than 5 million passenger movements last year, this figure is expected to increase to 10 million in 1982. By then, and if the actual growth in passenger traffic warrants, a second passenger terminal with a similar capacity, of 10 million passenger movements can be built. Space for a third and a fourth passenger terminal has been reserved to allow expansion to meet the demand well into the 21st century when the annual passenger movements may well exceed 13 million. Likewise, the cargo handling space has been planned for phased expansions to cater for growth well into the 21st century. Regarding the questions raised by the Member for Changi I am sure he is aware that the Paya Lebar Airport terminal building is now under renovation. It will be converted wholly into a departure hall. Renovation work is expected to be completed in the next few months. I believe the problems which he has described are most likely to be true. But I hope they are only temporary. These problems will be solved when renovation work is completed, where there will be extended space for the ticketing section and so on. Nevertheless, I will ask the departments concerned to look into the various problems which he has raised. The Member has also mentioned about the use of the existing buildings at the Paya Lebar Airport after 1981-82 when we move to Changi. From 1980-82 when Phase I of the Changi Airport is completed. Paya Lebar Airport will be used to cater for any overflow of civil aircraft traffic which could not be handled by Changi Airport with just one runway. The new arrival building at the Paya Lebar Airport will therefore continue to process passengers from those civil aircraft which could not be handled at Changi Airport alone during the two years from 1980 to 1982. After 1982 the new arrival building will be handed over to the Government agency administering the Paya Lebar Airport. The new arrival building as well as the departure building could, if necessary, be converted into offices or other uses depending on the requirements at that time.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the Senior Minister of State has mentioned the expansion of the terminal buildings in four phases. What about the runways? Will the two runways in the 21st century be able to cater for aircraft landing and taking off considering that the peak hours at the airport are between 6.00 p.m. and 10.00 p.m.?

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, the new Changi International Airport, as he has mentioned, will have two runways. They will be able to handle two aircraft taking off or landing simultaneously with a maximum of about 80 landings and take-offs per hour. The peak hour traffic movement through Singapore is expected to reach 31 movements in 1982. An aircraft taking off or landing is recorded as one movement. By 1990 the movements are expected to increase to 48 per hour. With two runways handling up to about 80 landings or 80 movements per hour, it is going to bring us well into the 21st century. But it is too early for us to say what will happen after that. Technology advances and changes. We will leave something for our future generation to look into.

Sir, in view of the explanation given by the Senior Minister of State, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head O be reduced by $10 in respect of item 1210 of Subhead Code OE-01 of the Main Estimates. Sir, it is a fact that our Postal Services is considered to be one of the best in this part of the world. This is because of the Department's efforts in constantly reviewing and introducing new ideas and systems to deal with the growing workload in the Postal Department. However, I would like to comment on certain matters connected with the Postal Services. Sir, some time ago General Purpose counters were introduced at the various post offices. Are these counters working satisfactorily? These counters deal with so many items, renewal of various licences, stamps, registration of letters, etc. that the people have to wait for a considerable time. Even the clerical staff working at the counters voice a certain amount of dissatisfaction over the arrangement. May I know the Minister's views about these General Purpose counters? I also want to know how often does the Postal Department check on the stocks of items like stamps, aerogrammes, etc. to ensure that there is always enough stock available at all times. I say this, because over the last few weeks - I do not mean at the moment - it was apparent that there was no stock of aerogramme forms at a number of post offices. Many people after queuing at the now busy counters which handle the various services were told that there was no stock of aerogrammes. This was the situation for one or two weeks. Why is this so? Since we are on the topic of aerogrammes, I notice that that portion of the aerogramme giving the sender's particulars is covered with a design of a scenery of the Republic. This is a form of publicity for Singapore for tourist attraction. I agree with that. But then there is a little problem here. The recipients may not be able to make out the sender's name and address on the heavily coloured superimposed scenery. It would be wiser to have the design printed in lighter tone or just leave a small blank space for the sender's particulars. Sir, it appears that in the Mailing Centre at Nelson Road, too often the assistant postmen and postwomen who are normally engaged in the loading and unloading of mails are asked to stay back at the last minute to continue with their work. Because of this last minute decision, the workers cannot participate in any activities outside office hours. This extra work is, of course, treated as overtime. But the problem here is due to the shortage of manpower. Could the Minister give some figures of assistant postmen and postwomen, and what is the rate of resignation and absconding, i.e. without giving any notice at all? Is it true that the rate of attrition is higher than the recruitment? If that is the case, how are the existing workers going to tackle the increasingly heavy load? What is being done to recruit this category of workers and what benefits are given to them so that they will remain in the service? Why is the rate of resignation and absconding so high? I think it is because of the poor working conditions. Something must be done to improve their conditions of service. Sir, I would also like to know how many bicycles are available for the use of the postal workers. I notice that although some of the bicycles are 20 to 30 years old, with so many mendings and welding here and there, they are still in service. I always complain about the Postal Department. The Postal Service is an essential one. However, the Department is not concerned about the staff. They want good work from the staff but they do not like to hear the problems of the staff. Has the Postal Department any plans to replace all these bicycles? And those that are commissioned are of the type meant for use by ladies. The men are also now required to use these bicycles. We are indeed becoming a unisex world. Some of the men have expressed their feelings about using ladies' bicycles on the streets. I also note that generally all the postmen are wearing a standard uniform. In the Postal Department there are so many grades. There are assistant postmen, assistant postwomen, postwomen, and postmen, special grade. They all have the same uniform. But we cannot identify them. It is only when you go near them and scrutinise the badge that you know the designation of the worker. It is just a small badge. Even though I had been working in the Postal Department, I cannot tell the difference between a postman, an assistant postman, or a postman, special grade. Although I always complain about the Postal Department, there are no results. I wonder whether different coloured uniforms can be introduced to distinguish the different grades of postmen. Can you see any postman in a smart uniform? The assistant postman's uniform should be of one colour and the postman another colour. There must be some identification. They must have a smart uniform too. Sir, I note that there is a provision for a new international express service called the "Speed Post" that is being worked out by the Postal Department. This is indeed a wise move to keep up with modern times. What I want to know here is when will this scheme be implemented. To keep us with the times, many sections which deal with cash are air-conditioned, like the POSB branches. I wonder whether the Postal Department would consider air-conditioning all the post offices for the benefit of the staff and the general public. If you go to the banks, they are all air-conditioned. The POSB is earning money. The Minister for Communications must ask the Minister for Finance adequate funds for this purpose. The Postal Department is very essential. How many million dollars does it make in profit? It must give good service to the public and at the same time it must look after the staff.

Mr Govindaswamy, I think you have made your point.

I would ask the Department to negotiate with the union.

Order. Moment of interruption. Thereupon Mr Deputy Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Main and Development Estimates for the financial year 1st April, 1978 to 31st March, 1979, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.

So be it.

Resolved, "That Parliament do now adjourn." - [Mr Bernard Chen]. Adjourned accordingly at Four minutes past Eight o'clock p.m.