Hansard, 1998-03-16

The following Bill was assented to by the Acting President of the Republic of Singapore on the date stated: 12 March 1998 Films (Amendment) Bill 1998. TAN SOO KHOON Speaker Parliament of Singapore

asked the Minister for Community Development when the Government will review its childcare subsidy again so as to help the lower-income group, to encourage more women to return to the workforce and to help working parents balance between work and family. The Minister for Community Development (Mr Abdullah Tarmugi): Mr Speaker, Sir, the provision of child care subsidies is precisely to help women to return to the workforce. The subsidy is given across the board to all Singaporean mothers in the workforce. Special help is given to low-income families who receive additional financial subsidies from the Centre-based Financial Assistance for Child Care Scheme. The subsidies are reviewed regularly and the last one we carried out was in April 1995. My Ministry is carrying out a study on how to provide more child care places to meet the demand and also to allow mothers more choices. We also want to ensure that child care is affordable to families, especially those with low-income. The subsidies will be reviewed as well. The study should be completed by the middle of this year.

Mr Speaker, Sir, may I ask the Minister what steps is the MCD taking to attract more mothers to join the workforce. I know it is the responsibility of Ministry of Labour.

Sir, as rightly pointed out by the Member, I think that Question should rightly be directed to the Ministry of Labour.

Order read for consideration in Committee of Supply [4th Allotted Day].

Head R (cont.) - Resumption of Debate on Question [13th March, 1998], "That the total sum to be allocated for Head R of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100." - [Mr Chew Heng Ching]. Question again proposed.

Sir, when I was cut off last Friday, I was speaking on TV programmes. It is important that TV programmes, especially the News that is telecast in Singapore, and as pointed out by the Minister last year in the Budget debate, should focus on the Singapore viewpoint. It is very important because sometimes I wonder what has a bus accident or small human story in America got to do. In fact, if there were other human stories of what is happening in Asia they would be much more relevant. So I would urge the News editors to focus and give a Singapore viewpoint whenever news is reported. There may be some human angle, I can agree. But to report on small incidents of road blocks, or things like that, I do not think it serves any purpose. May I now move to the question of Indian programmes, Sir. The Indian News programme is hampered because it has to depend on the other sections and it does not cover news on the Indian community as widely as it should. Also, there is a tendency for the Indian news programmes to focus on matters happening in India. I do not deny that India is an important country but to focus unduly on affairs in India, I think it is not good for Singapore, and I would urge that we should take a focused viewpoint. The Indian PAC has pointed this out. But I want to share my views with this House that we should try to portray India's problems in India's setting and not India's problems in Singapore setting. I think it would be good to have more journalists in this section. I know there are budget constraints. But I would ask the Minister to urge his colleague, the Finance Minister, to be a little more generous because I know the Indian programmes are not self-financing. But it is an important sector of the community and it should get its coverage, not only the Indian programmes but the other community and national programmes in the Indian channel. The other point is the question of timing. I know the timing has improved. The Minister may say that we are asking too much. But I think it would benefit half of the Indian community, especially the younger listeners and viewers, if the News programme could be shifted after 8.30 pm. The second point, Sir, is that we do not have a current affairs programme in the Indian segment. It is important to know what is happening around us in Singapore and we should have such a programme either twice a month or, if not, at least once a month. The programme could be for half an hour to one hour where the Indian viewers could have the opportunity to see the problems facing Singapore. For this, I think we should have funding. Again, I would urge the Minister to reconsider this. Sir, I must applaud TCS for the improvement in its quality of programmes. I think it would be hypocrisy not to admit that the standards have gone up. But I am asking the Minister to urge his officers to do something that we can be proud of our TV and radio programmes, especially when they compare with the news media. If you look at the Straits Times, it has got such a wide coverage, in particular From the Gallery. If we could have the same coverage for TV programmes, I think Singapore as a whole would benefit.

(In Mandarin): Sir, the television programmes produced by TCS have become part and parcel of the Singapore culture, and the current affairs programmes and dramas produced by Channel 8 have also become part of the social life in the Chinese community in Singapore. 1997 is an eventful year for Singapore. First, we were affected by the haze. Then there was this tension between Singapore and Malaysia, followed by the financial turmoil and the SilkAir tragedy. The current affairs programmes from Channel 8 such as Tuesday Report, Focus and Money Week gave extensive coverage and analysis of all these events for the benefit of Singaporeans who are concerned with the society and the fate of their compatriots. The efforts and prompt reports by the Current Affairs Section of TCS are indeed highly commendable. Not long ago, TCS telecast a serial known as Taxi Driver, which was well received by the audience in general, and the taxi drivers themselves in particular. They feel that this kind of drama truly reflects our society and the transport workers in our society. It shows not only their life but also their hardship. It would also promote better understanding between the taxi drivers and their commuters, as well as improve the image of taxi drivers. On behalf of the taxi drivers, I would like to record their appreciation to the producers of this serial. The Programme Advisory Committee in its report released recently, pointed out that among TCS's top 10 serials last year, two were considered to be undesirable, not suitable for children. One of them is the Choice Partner which conveys undesirable ideas and the other is Rising Expectations which has a very complicated plot, involving prostitution, rape and other very illicit relationship between men and women. The report commended the good social values depicted in The Price of Peace and Guest People. Sir, one related problem is that the viewership of Channel 8 drama serials has generally dropped. In the past, they used to command a viewership of more than 700,000, but now it has dropped to around 600,000. When we are producing television drama serials, no doubt we have to consider viewership, but with so many channels now available, a viewership of 600,000 can be considered not too bad. If we want to cater for the viewership and the revenue from the commercials, and add in plots which are undesirable and depict bad social values, then it is not good. I think we should not be too surprised by a drop in viewership because there are now so many channels available to the viewers. Viewership is spread out and thinned out. What TCS should do is to produce more programmes like The Price of Peace and Guest People to attract more viewers. In the last few days, we have been discussing the question of bond-breakers of our scholarship holders in this Parliament. This involves the basic value of trust. TCS may consider gathering more materials on this matter and produce a programme on scholarships, bond-breakers, and so on. Perhaps, the Minister may call upon TCS to consider producing a programme based on scholarship bond-breakers. If we have realistic programmes like this, it has a good chance of securing high viewership.

(In Mandarin): Sir, in the Final Report of the Advisory Committee on TCS Chinese Drama and Variety Shows (ACCESS), 1996/98, it was pointed out, among other things, that TCS should not telecast programmes which are unsuitable for children, during the prime time. In the past, TCS used to schedule their programmes in such a way that certain types of programmes were telecast during certain time slots to cater for the different groups of viewers. However, as pointed out by the Advisory Committee, in recent years, there was a change in this kind of arrangement. I feel that the Singapore Broadcasting Authority should prepare a menu for TCS so that they would be guided as to when to telecast what kind of programme. Then, the Chinese Programme Advisory Committee (PAC) will not have to spend so much time to set out all this advice in its annual report. The Committee will then have more time to devote themselves on constructive suggestions and giving ideas on the production of better programmes, such as art programmes, documentaries, etc. to inculcate cultural values in our children and young people, for example, to encourage people to look after the old and the elderly. On the locally produced TV drama serials, I am glad to say that over the past few years, they have improved by leaps and bounds. But there is still room for improvement. On the whole, the programmes are good. There are not many big problems with the programmes. But, as pointed out in the final report of ACCESS, TCS should be careful not to introduce undesirable values in these serials, as these serials have considerable influence on our society at large. Looking at the TV programmes from another angle, when you are talking about the decline in viewership of our TV programmes, I think this is a bigger problem that we have to face. Because, basically, from the viewership, we can see the challenges facing TCS and SBA ahead. Comparing the viewership of our programmes with that of the imported ones, we can know how we fare. 12.45 pm Now, we have cable TV and wireless TV. Are there any differences in the programmes between the two? I think we have to consider this point. Thirdly, are the wireless TV Channel 5 and Channel 8 making profits or not? Fourthly, how are the programmes produced by us compared to those produced by Hong Kong and China which are now being telecast over cable TV? The decline of viewership for our local TV channels is not a totally unexpected phenomenon. I believe that in the years to come, viewership may continue to decline as cable TV gains popularity. I hope the Minister can take this opportunity to inform us of the future of cable TV and wireless TV. What kind of a role will TCS play in future? The next point is on digital TV. The advent of digital TV will also have an impact on television in Singapore. There will be some kind of revolutionary effect. I hope that the Minister can enlighten us on this new phase of development in television in Singapore.

Sir, I rise to address some concerns specific to Singapore Cable Vision (SCV) or cable TV. Would the Minister be able to provide an update on the project to develop the infrastructure for Singapore to be a "wired city state"? One of the items on the agenda was to give every household access to cable TV, should they wish to subscribe to it. For HDB estates, the feasibility and the cost is reasonably efficient. But how does SCV handle landed estates where it could cost easily up to $3,000 to wire up an individual house? What if private estate residents refuse to pay this sum? What recourse does MITA or SCV have? Would the Minister please clarify? Sir, further to my comment on the long-term role of TCS which I raised last Friday under an earlier amendment, I would like to seek clarifications from the Minister on what MITA see as the long-term role of SCV vis-a-vis TCS? Perhaps it is timely to review the definitions and the role of SCV versus TCS, in the light of the limited resources that we have. And I mentioned last Friday that we should try to avoid too much duplication of resources.

Sir, first, I wish to declare my interest. I am a director at Singapore Technologies (Pte) Limited, which is one of the principal shareholders of Singapore Cable Vision (SCV). SCV is responsible for wiring up the entire island to ensure Singapore is cable ready by the end of next year, in time for the new millennium. I wish to take up, more specifically, the point just raised by my colleague, Mr Chew. I understand that progress in wiring up has been good. 80% of the HDB flats have been wired and I think about 40% of the private flats have also been similarly wired. The project has been extended to landed properties, and I understand the response from this segment of the population has been less than enthusiastic. I think the relatively high cost of getting wired up is the principal reason for this. If I may illustrate, Sir, for the typical HDB unit, the first TV point is free. For each subsequent point, the cost is $60-$70. This affordable rate is possible, partly because of a Government grant to SCV to wire up about 7,000 HDB blocks. For a typical private flat, the cost to the first TV point is $150 and $90 for each subsequent point. There is no Government subsidy, as far as I understand, but the operator is able to offer more competitive prices because of the density of these developments. But for private landed properties, the cost to the first point is at least $1,500 and, in some cases, as high as $3,000. This is largely because they have to foot the bill of the external wiring, to tap the main lines of Singapore Telecom and bring it to the household. Members of these households could reasonably ask the question whether the service or cable access they receive is worth paying 10 times as much or more as that paid by their counterparts in HDB or private flats. There are about 60,000-70,000 such households. I urge the Minister to consider extending a Government grant or some other form of measure to defray at least part of this cost which would otherwise have to be borne by these households. It would at least bring it to a level more comparable to that paid by private flats and HDB estates. One possible measure could be for Government, the household and SCV to bear this cost equally, for argument's sake, $500 each. I think this would amount to about $35 million investment for the Government as a one-off exercise. This would be a worthwhile investment in Singapore's IT infrastructure, as we all know that the cable network is not just a medium for TV programmes, it is part of Singapore One providing a high bandwidth network for access to the Internet and other multimedia applications. In time to come, a cable point is going to be as essential in the home as a telephone point, and we do not have this kind of differentiation when it comes to telephone points in the home. At least, the cost relativities are far less. It would therefore be a great pity, I think, if we do not seize this opportunity to ensure that all of Singapore is cable ready by the end of next year. I think, in my view, a Government financial stimulus would be a welcome catalyst in this respect.

(In Mandarin): Sir, Singapore is now developing into an IT hub. Our IT infrastructure and development are more advanced than our neighbouring countries. The strange thing is that countries such as Indonesia and Malaysia which are lagging behind us in IT development, are allowing their people to use the satellite dish freely to receive satellite TV telecast, while Singapore bans the use of such satellite dish. The Government is concerned that if people are allowed to tune in freely to undesirable programmes, such as pornography, from the satellite TV, this would have a grave adverse repercussion on our society. I agree with this stand. However, with the advance in technology, would the Minister consider the use of some kind of technology to block out such undesirable programmes from the satellite TV, so that they will not reach Singapore? Then the Government can allow people to install satellite dishes so that they can freely select and watch programmes from other parts of the world, particularly programmes on political commentaries.

(In Mandarin): Sir, today, the younger generation of Singaporeans are receiving better education, and many of them are effectively bilingual. With the advancement in communications, the quality of life of our people has enhanced. Now, more and more Singaporeans are travelling overseas to broaden their visit and to motivate their pursuit for knowledge. At the moment, each of the four language streams has one daily newspaper. In addition, there is one afternoon English newspaper and two Chinese evening newspapers. As far as I know, many Singaporeans are hoping to have at least one more Chinese or English daily newspaper, so that they can have the option of an alternative newspaper to the existing one and only major language newspaper in Singapore. Sir, after 30 years of nation building, our people are more mature now. The younger generation of Singaporeans have received better education. They know how to distinguish between right and wrong. They are not easily instigated by others. So by giving them one more newspaper, their daily life could be further enriched. Under competition, I think the editorial contents and substance of the newspapers would be further improved and more quality reports will be provided for the benefit of the readers. To the advertisers, they will have an alternative choice to place their advertisement. It will also create more job opportunities for our mass communication students. In fact, the Government has already started what we call a "self-discipline" development in terms of education and culture. For example, the Ministry of Education is encouraging more independent schools to be set up so that they could have their own curriculum and methods of teaching, provided they comply with the guidelines issued by the Ministry of Education. Secondly, with cable TV and Internet getting more and more popular, it implies that MITA is allowing our people to be subjected to the impact of various views and schools of thoughts. Thirdly, we are allowing our cultural organisations more space for development, for example, busking. Under the necessary supervision, encouraging creativity and competition is a breakthrough. I hope that the Government would encourage any consortium which is interested to start a new major daily newspaper in Singapore.

Sir, I am sorry I did not catch your eye earlier. I am speaking on radio stations. Sir, in its efforts to further improve the radio services to better meet the needs of Singaporeans, the Radio Corporation of Singapore (RCS), following popular requests by MPs and the general public, introduced the arts radio station and the dialect news programmes over radio in recent months. I think these are good moves. It serves to benefit our arts loving Singaporeans and our senior citizens. Sir, the recent financial crisis developments in the region, the Indonesian crisis, the SilkAir MI 185 crash, the Thai baht crisis and so on, all show that there is a greater demand now for news coverage of international, regional and current events over radio. Singaporeans want to tune in to the latest on the news. Sir, I believe we have yet to have a station solely dedicated to providing up-to-date news. May I therefore ask the Minister what plans RCS has to set up more stations to cater to the needs of Singaporeans in general and the business community at large?

(In Mandarin): Sir, Chinese news over Channel 8 enjoys one of the highest viewership, especially during this period of financial crisis and unrest in Indonesia. A lot of people are watching TV news on Channel 8. Two months ago, in January, TV news on Channel 8 itself became a focus of news because it failed to telecast the death of the well-known veteran comedian, Wang Sa. There was no mention at all over the TV news in the three days immediately after his death. A lot of people were talking about this omission. Personally, I believe that this omission was unintentional. This incident tells us that our society is still quite humane. Our veteran comedian died, and he is still being remembered by the people. They want more people to know about his death through the TV news. Sir, when we are going regional and international, the news on TCS should cover not only local news, but regional and international news as well, so that Singaporeans can cast their eyes not only on our society but on the whole world. This, I think, should be the policy of all media in Singapore. On top of that, we are a multi-racial society. One of our special features is the ability to seek concord while maintaining our differences. As such, the people of Singapore are concerned not only with common issues in our nation, our society and the region, but also what is happening in our own communities. As such, while covering the major events in the world and in Singapore, Channel 5, Channel 8 and Channel 12 share more or less the same contents. However, while covering news on the various communities, each has its own characteristics. At the same time, they do not exclude coverage on the other communities. This is to ensure that there is better understanding and familiarisation among the various communities. Take our Straits Times, Lianhe Zaobao, Beritan Harian, and Tamil Murasu, for example. Although their main focus is on Singapore, regional and international news, each has its own characteristics when covering events in their respective community. To understand the Chinese society, we should read Lianhe Zaobao. But Lianhe Zaobao also covers the news concerning the Malay and Indian communities as well. The Straits Times is targeted at the English educated and the bilingual readers, but it does not neglect the other communities. Singapore needs to have newspapers which have their own characteristics as well as common points. Likewise, Singapore needs to have different TV channels which have their own characteristics as well as common points. 1.00 pm

(In Mandarin): Sir, I am quite happy with the yardstick adopted by our Film Censorship Board. What we should cut we cut, what we should not cut, we keep. They will not affect the continuity of films. I have spent some time going to the movies, and I am quite happy with the PG movies. I feel MITA should reward the Board. As for the R(A) movies, I will try and find time to view these movies with my family so that I could give my feedback to the Minister. Our TV programmes are, on the whole, quite good. They are improved from time to time and over the past few years, there were winning praises from all quarters. My complaint is that there are many imported programmes and too few films from Singapore. Many foreign film producers are interested to come and invest in the film industry in Singapore. However, they feel that the procedure for various applications is too complicated. They have to go from one Ministry to another Ministry, and one department to another, to process their applications. A lot of time is wasted in these procedures. To film a programme with Singapore as a background, many permits have to be applied for, and many departments are involved. For example, if the film touches on life at a HDB estate, with schools, factories, riverside, etc., applications have to be made to the HDB, Town Council, URA, National Parks Board, Land Office, Ministry of the Environment, JTC, etc. Filming can commence only after permits have been granted by the various Ministries and departments. It is so cumbersome and troublesome. As a member of the Jalan Besar Town Council, I have also received letters from TCS for permission to film the activities of our Jalan Besar Town Council. Can we not simplify all these procedures? If we apply for a permit and must wait for approval from each and every agency before anything can be done, it will take a very long time and this is inconsistent with our pursuit for high efficiency in our society. I feel that so long as we have some control over the moral values depicted in the films, and our oriental values will not be adversely affected, then we should liberalise and simplify the procedures for permission to film in Singapore. We should provide a one-stop agency to handle all these applications. Producers need submit only one application and MITA will be able to coordinate and help them to get the approval so that filming can commence as soon as possible. This will be very useful in helping Singapore to become a film and movie hub in the Asia Pacific area. I hope that MITA will consider this to develop Singapore into a Hollywood of the East.

Sir, as Singapore moves towards high value-added industries, there should be a more concentrated effort to develop film as a core art form and a major drive to make Singapore a film industry centre in the region. With economic problems in the region, in South Korea, with recession in Hong Kong and Japan, the timing looks correct for this push. Unlike other high value-added industries, the film industry has low education entry barriers. A wide spectrum of jobs could be created for a wide range of age groups from the young to the old. Sir, ACCESS, the Advisory Committee on TCS Chinese Drama and Variety Show, in its February 1998 Report, also felt that TCS had an important role to play in the development of a full-fledged TV Centre and went on to say that TCS support was crucial for the development of an educated, mature film and TV profession in Singapore. ACCESS observes that the recruitment of creative talents continues to be a concern. The Committee hopes to see a long term solution to this issue. The Committee also recommends TCS to widen its search for instructors from England and the United States instead of focusing only on those from Hong Kong, Taiwan and China. The same report also recommends TCS to open some of the more general training workshops to non-TCS staff as well so that wider interests could be attracted and potential talents nurtured. Sir, may I ask what measures will MITA take to implement these recommendations? Sir, for the film industry to take off, there must also be alternatives to TCS productions. More production houses should be invited to Singapore. Just as my colleague, Mr Peh says, film companies feel that shooting movies in Singapore has many complications and they complain of difficulties in getting permission or permit for location shooting, lack of supporting infrastructure, post-production and animation facilities. Film companies feel that there are too many permits to apply from too many different Government and statutory bodies before they can start shooting. Sir, MITA could consider setting up a one-stop service centre, as Mr Peh has suggested, which will help film production houses obtain all the necessary permits and clearance, such as closure of roads for location shooting, getting loan of equipment and props from Government bodies like MINDEF and the Police. MITA could perhaps look into the provision of grants to assist local film companies to bring in talents from overseas for local production. This could include grants for hiring directors, art directors, music directors, special effect technicians and any other talents or skills lacking here. The technology transfer will help our local talent pool to develop faster.

Sir, a report which I read in the Life Section of the Straits Times on 19th February 1998, noted that studies in the US showed that art and music may make children smarter. It seems that fine arts help the brain to focus on learning other skills. The researcher concluded that there are logical links between music and mathematics. It was also reported, and I quote, "learning from the arts can help build emotional skills". I am glad to note that in Singapore we also have embarked on an arts education programme. The National Arts Council launched last year the 6th Arts Education Programme aimed at bringing the arts to the students through a variety of events, some even staged by the students themselves. The Chairman of the NAC, Mr Liu Thai Ker, noted that the young formed the second largest audience at last year's Festival of Asian Performing Arts. He also pointed out that schools have increased their bookings for arts programmes and that the Arts Education Programme has reached about 60% of schools in Singapore. These are healthy signs of a growing art scene and art following. I am confident that all this will contribute to our Prime Minister's vision of a gracious society. Sir, I wonder if the time is not right for MITA, being the lead agency, in conjunction with MOE, to push further the development of the Arts Programme in Singapore. I believe we should make arts part of the core curriculum for all school children in Singapore. I am not advocating that we implement this immediately. What I am suggesting is that we have a plan, say, an Arts 2005 Plan providing for all schools in Singapore to eventually have an arts programme in place. The benefits that would flow to students from introducing a universal arts education will be tremendous. First, based on the study I cited earlier, improvements in the school children's academic performance in key subjects such as mathematics can be achieved. Secondly, such a programme would help to create more well-rounded students. And this is in line with our efforts to move away from examination performance as a sole criterion for university admission. The arts scene would also benefit tremendously from such a programme. An arts education programme will help us cultivate and develop the art followers of tomorrow. This is a vital component for the development of a healthy art scene. Furthermore, as has been noted in some reports, the arts usually survive due to generous donations from individuals and corporations. It is highly unlikely that those without an interest in the arts will want to make generous donations to the arts. Sir, the Arts 2005 Plan which I mentioned must be approached creatively. I share the concerns of MOE on the burden that incorporating the arts into the school curriculum would place on students. Perhaps this is where MITA and the private arts groups can come in and share their experiences and insights in developing the arts. I do not believe we should approach the arts education programme in the same manner as we approach a mathematics programme, for example. The arts curriculum need not follow curriculum time. I believe that if we can bring together experts from MITA, the arts groups and MOE, we can find creative ways to introduce arts to all school children in Singapore.

Sir, let me first start by declaring my interest as a member of the resource panel for the National Arts Council and a past recipient of the National Arts Award. Sir, today we have heard quite a lot about MITA in its function as censor and controller. I turn more to MITA's role as promoter and sponsor. The comments I have heard from my fellow MPs have also focused on the arts as an industry, the arts as education and perhaps, underlying some of the ideas, a luxury in expenditure. I think that this is an important background perception of the arts that we need to focus on during these economic hard times. The downturn has led to a budget with less operating expenditure for the arts and grants. I make this cut in order to call for consistent support and attempts to continue the promotion and support of the arts that is necessary to improve the quality of life in Singapore. In making this call, Sir, I see that the arts promotion has two prongs. The first is of Singapore being a hub for arts and here the focus is on foreign talent, such as some of the large scale musicals we have seen. The second, beyond the hub concept, is that of promoting the indigenous talent of Singaporeans. In this sense, our arts policy, like so many other policies in Singapore, demonstrates tension between attracting foreign talent and giving sufficient support to Singaporeans. Sir, in these hard times, we may have to make hard choices. If funding does go down, we may have to well decide between priorities, between foreign talent and our own artists, between hub and indigenous growth. Sir, we owe it to our artists and our arts groups to put them first. Some of these have gone full time. For every one large Beauty World there are many more experimental productions which attract an audience but do not make the kind of commercial reward. I call for this, not in the name of blind nationalism or parochialism, rather, it is the essential difference between a foreign artist and a Singaporean artist. To me, Sir, the foreign artist, no matter how acclaimed, no matter how entertaining, no matter how universal, will fail to speak as a Singaporean artist can of Singapore. The Singaporean artist can portray us and articulate Singaporean life, who we are, and from this particularity, also touch the universal. With that, Sir, I ask the Minister to continue support for art and artists as a whole, but especially a choice must be made for Singaporean artists. 1.15 pm

Sir, I recently saw a full-page print advertisement by the EDB which reads: "How do you reach three billion people in Asia? Simply get a desk in Singapore." This summarises our vision of becoming the centre or hub in Asia for the media and the arts. I understand, for example, that industry heavyweights such as Discovery, HBO, Sony Entertainment - just to name a few - are already in Singapore. This is good and I believe we must continue to make every effort to attract wire service providers, arts providers, major exhibitions, theatrical performances and the like to Singapore. We must also examine our regulatory framework to ensure that these companies find Singapore an attractive place in which to operate. I understand, for example, that the move to allow 100% foreign ownership for broadcasting companies has been well received. This is a good beginning. My concern is whether given the current economic turmoil, our efforts to realise our vision are being cut back or whether foreign companies have cut back or avoided setting up operations in Singapore. It is not uncommon to cut funding and reduce efforts in the arts and media when there is an economic crunch. However, our efforts to consolidate during this period so that we are well placed at the next economic boom must also apply to our effort at making Singapore a hub for the media and the arts. We are investing heavily in many areas. During a briefing by the Singapore Arts Centre to GPC (MITA), we were told that Singapore is not investing $500 million solely for the sake of her three million people. This investment is meant to have an international impact. I applaud this vision. And this must be our vision even in these difficult times. I read, for example, in the Asia Magazine of 6-8 March 1998, that there are critics of this vision. A reader, Mr John Faulkner wrote that, and I quote, "the SAC could be one of the most celebrated white elephant in Asia:". I am confident that he will be proven wrong. I would urge the Ministry to double its efforts at realising our vision. We need not beat our chest and declare this to the world. Let us work quietly but conscientiously towards this dream. I would like an update from the Minister on what more is being done by MITA. Making ourselves into a hub does not entail just providing buildings and a good regulatory framework. That is the easy part. We must also ensure that our people are interested in, and support and donate generously to the arts. It is also important to ensure that our people can pursue careers in the arts in a financially and intellectually supportive environment. I have been told that arts groups in Singapore are constantly in search of funds. And we have just heard Mr Tay appealing on behalf of our local arts group. I support his appeal and I wish MITA could consider further ways of assisting these groups. But let us do more to ensure that the successes that we have achieved thus far in the arts are not whittled away by the economic slowdown. If so, our dream of becoming a hub for the arts and the media may just become a pipe dream.

Sir, busking was introduced on 1st October 1997. The benefits are obvious. They give the opportunity for Singapore to be a more vibrant city. They assist in the development of the arts scene. They create opportunities for both local and foreign artistes to be creative and, hopefully, lead to the development of youth interest in the arts and also participation. Sir, I believe we should further encourage busking in Singapore. The current form of controlled busking has its benefits. But I believe the National Arts Council should further liberalise busking, ie, allow more licences and more places for busking in line with our intention to be the cultural renaissance city of Asia. I, therefore, would like to urge the Minister to make the application for busking licence more accessible and to also consider allowing busking in HDB towns, and not just be confined to public parks and open spaces managed by the National Parks Board and pedestrian malls at Orchard Road. Would the Minister, therefore, give the House an update on his Ministry's latest thinking on busking?

Mr Ravindran is not here. Mr Peh Chin Hua.

(In Mandarin): Sir, in this age of fast development of information technology, the Internet has reached every nook and corner of the world, giving lots of benefits in our work, our studies and our communications with one another. However, I am very concerned with the avalanche of sex-related information on the Internet which is easily accessible from every home. This may have an impact on the young generation of Singaporeans. According to the USA Media and PC Survey Company's report, there is a strong demand among the Internet surfers in the USA for sex entertainment. Sex business on the Internet is very lucrative. It is a roaring trade and those traders in pornographic information on the Internet are making a lot of money. It is the easiest computer tool for making money. According to the people in the computer trade, in May 1997, the number of visitors to sex-related websites doubled that in May 1996. Turnover for such sex-related information on the Internet comes up to billions of US dollars. Apart from providing nude pictures, these sex websites also provide pornographic materials such as "digital striptease shows" and "exotic nude videos", etc. Sir, our young people can gain access to these undesirable websites without paying a single cent for it. In order to protect the healthy growth of our children and young people, and to prevent these sex-mongers from promoting such undesirable activities on the Internet, we should pass more stringent laws to regulate and shut out such pornographic information on the Internet. The Ministry of Community Development, the Ministry of Education, the People's Association and MITA should co-operate in jointly starting a campaign to familiarise parents with the Internet, so that they will understand the type of "yellow-culture" traps on the Internet which exhibit pornographic materials, in order that they may be able to guide their children on the proper way of getting onto the Net. I hope MITA will pay close attention to the dissemination of sex information on the Internet and study the possibility of starting this "Familiarise the Parents with the Internet" campaign.

Sir, the Internet is a great place for kids and kins to interact with their peers from around the world. However, when children go on line, they must use commonsense such as they use commonsense in the real world. Kids must be taught never to give out personal information such as addresses, phone numbers, real names, or the addresses of their parents to random people with whom they meet and converse on the Net. A check of sites in the United States in October last year, involving 126 children's commercial sites, found that 86% collect data about US children, including e-mail addresses, phone numbers, most without seeking parental consent. No one knows how this information is being used. Other news have also made much of a danger of the Internet to children. As a result, many parents have become worried about the impact of Internet on their kids. There is a need to adopt some form of regulatory approach to help safeguard children when they go on-line. Of course, ISPs will argue that filtering software such as NetNanny and Cyber Patrol and many others, are available and parents could put such filtering software in their children's PCs. But most parents today are not so well versed as their children when they come to the computers and the Internet. Most probably the parents will have to ask their children to install the filtering software and the children may not even do that. Sir, many school children are today asked to do research on the Internet. Children learn to use different search engines. But once the children know how to use the search engines, they get access to much information, including those not suitable for them. Currently, there is also no system of classification or age restriction that is enforceable. Sir, SBA could make available tools for parents to protect their children. ISPs could be encouraged to offer filtered Internet access with web filtering software installed at the server level. Children's safe zones which offer monitored safe sites for kids could be created. This service could be offered to schools and parents who want cleaner Internet access for their children. Sir, shall I proceed to the next amendment?

Yes.

Sir, since last year, many Chinese-based Internet sites have been developed. According to the China Net Information Centre, there are over 49,000 homes and 250,000 PCs connected to the Chinese Internet. Meanwhile, Chinese Internet has grown into bandwidth to accommodate an increasing number of users, estimated to hit some three to four million in China by the year 2000. With this development, many large databases with important business and education information and a vast pool of knowledge are now available on Chinese Internet sites. With the rapid growth of on-line networking for Chinese-based information, Chinese Internet becomes a whole new field of opportunity, especially for many Singaporeans who are today effectively bilingual. SBA could encourage the development and expansion of usage of Chinese-based Internet services, so that Singaporeans will be able to tap two huge reservoirs of knowledge in English and in Chinese. Sir, encouraging the development of Chinese-based Internet will also speed up the development of double-byte computing technology, extending our development capability beyond the single-byte computing technology used in English-based Internet. May I ask the Minister what measures will be taken to drive this development and provide the direction for technological research in this area?

(In Mandarin): Sir, in October last year, the web page of Lianhe Zaobao attracted more than 10 million visitors, and this makes it an international on-line newspaper. It is something that we can rejoice in. This shows the popularity of the Internet which enables Lianhe Zaobao to transcend geographical and national boundaries to extend its influence throughout the world, and not just confined to a small nation like Singapore. This enables the newspaper to break through the restriction of having just a small readership of Chinese-educated Singaporeans, and expand its market to the whole world. Chinese-speaking readers all over the world can now gain access to information on Singapore through the Internet, and thus have a better understanding of Singapore. This is very important to the internationalistion of Singapore. Right now, the English Internet has been extensively used in Singapore, and information activities on the Net are very busy and frequent. This strengthens our exchanges and contacts with the world and opens up new channels for us to access information. But in terms of the development of the Chinese Internet, we are lagging behind. At the moment, the Internet market in China is developing very quickly and all the government agencies, universities, research institutes and business community are making more and more use of the Internet. There are also more and more people using Chinese all over the world. If we can promote and develop the Chinese Internet in Singapore, it will help us to promote our exchanges with other Chinese communities from various parts of the world. This will help to promote our exchanges in terms of culture, trade and industry, technology, etc. This has very important significance in realizing our dream of going regional. I hope that the Ministry of Information and the Arts can make a study on how to promote the use of Chinese Internet in Singapore.

Sir, the National Courtesy Campaign has been around for many years now. It is held with the hope of creating a more gracious society. With the rapid pace of advances in technology, the courtesy or the lack of it continues to affect our quality of life in Singapore. As a result, the nature of courtesy has to take new and different forms. Sir, first, let me talk about the growing trend of the lack of handphone courtesy. I think the advent of handphones has not only made us busier but has also made some of us in our society become ruder. We need to remember that restaurants, private clubs, libraries, theatres, auditoriums and conferences, etc. are public places and the basic human courtesy should be expected and extended to the public and it should be the public norm. I am sure that Members of this House would be very irritated when someone's phone rings like this. Let me try, Sir. [Demonstrating]. It is very irritating, as you can see. Then there was this person who told me that at his business association's monthly meeting one of his fellow businessmen's phone rang and he whipped out his handphone oblivious of the occasion and went on loudly and said, "Ah Beng, can you buy for me this number 1234, 10 big and five small." Sir, is this not totally discourteous and something that we should frown upon? 1.30 pm Sir, then there was another occasion when a stage performance was in progress at the World Trade Centre Auditorium. While the play was entering an emotional and sentimental scene, a handphone rang. The handphone owner who was seated at the second row unhesitantly whipped up his phone and spoke so loudly, seemingly again oblivious of the surroundings. Needless to say, the audience's attention was angrily shifted from the stage to him. But he went on despite voices of strong disapproval. Sir, I would like to urge the Minister that it is time that we made the theme of this year's National Courtesy Campaign such that it is focused on courtesy or the lack of it, brought about by technological gadgets like handphones, pagers and also the problems of e-mail. So we need to educate the public on how to use these gadgets so that Singaporeans do not become inconsiderate of others around them. Sir, I do not have time to explain the discourtesies of e-mailers, both "he-mailers and fe-mailers", who put up rude and irresponsible outbursts on the Net, especially in the Internet chat groups like `soc.culture singapore'. Unfortunately, because some of them use pseudonyms which therefore cannot identify them, the law cannot get onto them. Instead, we suffer as we try to find out what is on the Net. Sir, their outbursts are totally ungracious and irresponsible. Again, I would urge the Minister that we have to tackle this problem not just by legislation, but by trying to appeal to them through other means such as the courtesy campaign. Sir, let us work on creating a technologically advanced but gracious society.

Sir, I would like to commend the good work done by the National Heritage Board. We have more museums than we had originally. We are not just serving our own people, but also people from other parts of the world who want to get a flavour of our past can do so. And I am glad that the Government has done so much in an area which cannot be mentioned in dollars and cents. The other point I would like to touch on is the buildings. Sir, many buildings which would have been demolished are now preserved. Thanks to the National Heritage Board. This is of course a historical heritage which we are bequeathing for the generation to come to cherish and enjoy. In this context, a shophouse in Telok Ayer Street, where the Anglo-Chinese School started, was preserved by an old boy of the school. Such an act of generosity should be applauded. I hope other members of the public, who are owners of buildings with historical link, whether started by an association, school or even a clinic, should try to preserve them. I hope the National Heritage Board would get in touch with them and assist them, not by financial means but by historical research. Sir, if we take a walk along London street, we come across many buildings and plaques saying that a governor or a writer had stayed or was born there. I hope we too could have this. I know there are some streets with plaques at the corner. There are many roads which are named after many illustrious Singaporeans and we should try to find out their historical link. How many people know about Kim Seng Street or Jiak Kim Street? There is a history behind it. Take, for example, Coleman Street. There is a plaque which was beautifully done. Unfortunately, maybe it is due to the weather the inscription has faded, and it is so difficult for one to read now. It serves no purpose. So if we want to do it, do it well. I would urge the Minister to ask his officials to look around for such buildings. How many of us know where the Trade Unions Building was? None. Where was the communist party operating from? Where did many of the political parties start off? This is a historical wealth. I would urge the Government to go in because time is not on our side. Many of the buildings would be torn down. If I may illustrate, recently, there was a building in Little India at Dunlop Street, which was first started by a group of Hindi community speakers in 1910 or 1920. Some people wanted to buy it. Unfortunately, the price was too high. They could not buy it. But they were hoping that a plaque could be constructed there. I will be writing to the Minister in due course and hope that he will give consideration to this matter. Sir, it is important that we recognise the good work of the National Heritage Board. Every member of the public who has knowledge of a historical building should do his own research, find out how it started and pass it to the Government so that we could preserve it. The Minister for Information and the Arts (BG George Yong-Boon Yeo): Sir, I would like to thank Members for their comments and suggestions. This year I notice that, when many Members were raising problems or challenges to MITA, they also built into their comments and suggestions the recognition that, very often, what we are trying to do is a question of balance. And the entire cut has been characterised by two threads running through: One thread wanting Singapore to open up, to be a media hub, to promote the film industry, to bring in talent, satellite dishes, second Chinese newspaper, and so on. Then there is the second thread running through, which is, but please let us preserve our identity, let us control TCS, let us not forget to censor, yes, more Internet but be careful of Internet, protect our young, and so on. These two threads are entangled. And if we have one without the other, both will come off and both must somehow be woven into our social fabric. When we had the debate in this House about bond breaking, the issue there really is what kind of people do we want to be. We want to be a big tree with branches spreading everywhere and a huge canopy. But big trees catch big winds and the tree can topple unless the roots are very deep, especially in a crisis. So the challenge to us is to grow but at the same time to sink roots. And, paradoxically, the more we want to grow, the more we must sink roots. The more we want one thread to be accentuated, the more we must colour the other thread as well. Then our fabric would be strong. But otherwise, we lose everything. And this really is what we try very hard to do in all our programmes in MITA, to promote the external dimension of Singapore but, at the same time, to ensure that our underpinnings are strong and become stronger year by year. I would like now to address the specific points raised by Members. First, the Internet. Both Mr Peh Chin Hua and Dr Ho Tat Kin touched on the explosive growth of the Internet, the effects of pornographic and other undesirable sites on the young and the way children are catching on to the e-mail. Here, there is a generational divide. It is very difficult for parents to install the software programmes to protect their children when their children know much more about the computer than the parents do. We have grappled long and hard with this problem and SBA has decided that by the end of this year, all Internet Service Providers in Singapore will be required by regulation to provide an option for all parents, a cleaner, more sanitised Internet service which will build in at the server level a software filter programme like Cyber Patrol, Surf Watch or NetNanny. There are many available now in the market. We do not really want to specify the particular one for which the Internet Service Provider should offer as an option. But an option should be given to parents and should be available in schools and public libraries. So if we, as parents, get a request from our children to have Internet installed and we do not know too much about it, then at least we know enough to put a tick that it should be the Family Access Network and not the general service Internet which you may not want your children to have until they have reached a certain age. I think this will provide something more practical for parents to have. But of course whatever safer, cleaner, more sanitised option we provide, it cannot be 100%. Indeed, if it is even 70% to 80%, that is already very good, and do not expect that there could be any service which is provided which will ensure that everything that comes into the home is completely clean and sanitised. It is not possible. But it should be better than what is commonly available. However, there is a price to be paid. Otherwise, we will introduce it for everybody. The price to be paid is there will be a certain degradation of the Internet service but which should not matter too much for young people. SBA is also encouraging a voluntary code of good practice and encouraging web sites in Singapore to classify themselves. This is a big problem all over the world. Every regulatory authority in the world is grappling with this problem. There is still no consensus. People are meeting and talking. I think we should also keep up with the technology, try certain things and eventually work out a system of regulation which best suits our needs. This new phenomenon of the Internet is a big thing. It will change human history. It is like fire. Once fire has arrived, you cannot ban it. You cannot say, "Well, let's disinvent fire." You can regulate fire. But you cannot prevent it. You cannot control it properly. The only way to handle a new technology like fire is to teach every young child. So all of us, as parents, as part of our education of raising the young, is to teach them how to strike a matchstick and to learn to respect fire as a force for both good and evil. Of course, public authority has a responsibility to provide fire hydrants and have the fire code. But at the end of the day, the technology must be internalised within every individual. All our children will grow up with not only a postal address but also an e-mail address. When they go home, when they go to the office, you do not just check your mail box which all of us do, you check your e-mail, you check your voicemail, your check your fax machine. Yes, life is becoming more complicated and for those of us who are older, it is becoming somewhat confusing. But the young ones, they must be prepared for this new age. 1.45 pm Both Dr Ho and Mr Peh Chin Hua talked about the importance of the Chinese Internet. I fully agree with their point of view. Right now, the English Language websites dominate the world, and if you do not know English, you are at a severe disadvantage. But the Chinese universe is expanding very rapidly. All kinds of figures have been offered. By the end of the century, there will be 2-4 million Internet users in China. Today, we know that Chinese is the fastest growing foreign language, taught and learnt in the whole world, because of China's economic progress. It would be very foolish of us when many of our people have a mastery of both not to dive into the Chinese Internet as well. Language is a very high barrier to entry. If you do not know it, to acquire enough skills and then to develop the inputting systems and to master the nuances and subtleties, it is impossible. But if we get our young people on to it when their minds are still flexible, then we will equip them with an advantage which will see them through throughout life. And it will also position Singapore wonderfully between the English-speaking world and the Chinese-speaking world. To facilitate this, MITA has set up a Chinese Internet Steering Committee. It is chaired by Prof. Wee Chou How from the University. He is also the Chairman of our Speak Mandarin Campaign. In it, we have many members from a broad cross-section of society, including technologists like Sim Wong Hoo. The list will be released this afternoon to the media. The idea is to study the problem and the opportunities, to address all aspects, inputting systems, double byte technology, creation of websites, classification and so on, in order that, comprehensively, across the whole country, we move our people into it. And then when Internet fully takes off in China and becomes important in the world, our people are fully equipped to access this universe. On television and radio, many speakers have asked me about what is our long-term objective. We know that for stations like Channel 8, viewership is on the decline. I think this is a long-term trend because of SCV and the Internet. Then why have SCV? And what is the proper relationship between TCS, TV12 and SCV? I would like to recall for Members the general approach that my Ministry has been taking for the last 6-7 years. First, we saw the challenge of satellite television, and how this will eventually erode our ability to monopolise TV broadcasting in Singapore. So, to prepare for the day when it becomes impossible to keep out satellites, we forced the corporatisation of TCS and forced it to become more responsive to the market. It used to be run as a department of state, as a civil service. Then RTS became SBC, then TCS. And we freed up internal procedures so that they can hire and fire. And they had to watch ratings. Of course, in the process, they made many mistakes. But had we not forced SBC into restructuring and privatisation, I do not think we would be where we are now. And since corporatisation, programming hours have increased tremendously news, current affairs, dramas and so on. In the meantime, we try to keep satellite TV at bay for as long as possible, while recognising that one day it will come in no matter what we do. And when that day comes, we will probably change our regulations to say, "Okay, now we accept satellites." But while it is possible to keep it out, we keep it out in order to buy time for local broadcasters and local programme producers to become better. And for them to become better, we have got to put the spurs into them, so that they are subject to external pressures and they face competition. At the same time, we did not want Singaporeans to be denied of programming choice and of access to broadband. What did we do? We embarked on a programme to cable up the whole of Singapore. Unlike Indonesia or Malaysia, we are a compact city state. 90% of our people live in high-rise apartments. It is not feasible, to begin with, for every household to stick out a satellite dish. Satellite dishes work on the basis of line of sight. We cannot just cantilever it out. We put it on top of our rooftops. In the old days, we had TV antennas on our rooftops and they made it look as if we had a full head of hair. Today, if we have dishes all over, we look like a golliwog. So what is the position we take? We treat Singapore as a heavily cabled local area network, which is Singapore One, big dishes to take in all signals from all major satellites in the world, all kinds of broadband cables, T1, T2, T3 lines, connected to the major hubs in the world and, within Singapore, to progressively remove bandwidth as a constraint. In other words, our strategy for survival is not to think that we can keep out the water, but to channel the water. And to tell the local broadcasters that they have got to swim in this water. They have got to give up dry land. And these are the pressures and the tensions that we face. If we say, "TCS, don't worry about viewership. Concentrate on the good stuff news, current affairs, local programming, "Today in Parliament", that is the easiest thing for them to do. Any civil servant can do that, and they will do it with distinction. But that is not the skill that they need to survive in this new environment. They have got to watch ratings. They have got to accept the programming need to change from day to day, from week to week, and they must be very responsive. Yes, on the one hand, we should not give them a free hand. On the other hand, we want them to develop swimming skills and to force them to learn quickly. We throw them into the deep end and some will, from time to time, reach out for help, gasp for air, and then we rescue them and try them again. But I agree with Mr Choo Wee Khiang that some of them may be bad swimmers whatever we do. Maybe we should take them out of the pool. SBA is constantly caught between these two requirements, on the one hand, to maintain a certain level of public programming while, at the same time, understanding that the only way for TCS, TV12 and RCS to survive is to swim. What is the long-term position that we want? Our hope is for our national broadcasters eventually to have a position like that of the BBC in England. Today, the BBC operates in quite a free environment of competition, they still have 50% of the market share, with BBC1, BBC2 and the various stations on FM. I met John Birt recently and he told me that, with the advent of digital television, they have got to keep on moving. And from this year or next year, they are starting seven new TV stations, in addition to BBC1 and BBC2, three based on public funding and the other four commercially funded, including a 24-hour news channel and various other things. The challenge is not over. Digital TV, Internet TV, will confront us with new challenges and we must ensure that our local stations maintain their dominance in the English language, Chinese language, Malay language, Tamil, in radio and so on. In radio, despite fierce competition from abroad and from NTUC and SAFRA, RCS has managed to maintain dominance in every segment, and they have done well. TCS and TV12 will face more competition, particularly from SCV. What should they do? The strategy really is to concentrate on local programming, because that is the most difficult for international broadcasters to take away from them. It is not easy for a local radio station to compete with the BBC or CNN. But none of us would exclusively watch CNN or exclusively listen to BBC. Our day is not complete until we have also tuned in to our local radio station, local TV station, read our local newspapers. So we must ensure that our local newspapers, local television stations and local radio stations are able to maintain a certain position of dominance and credibility in our hearts and in our minds. If we say, only good stuff, unfortunately, a lot of good stuff is boring. After a long day's work, and Singaporeans work very hard, they go back home, they are not going to read War and Peace. They want entertainment. They want something simple and easy to digest. They sit back, be couch potatoes for a few minutes at the end of a hard day. And what we try to do is to build in some education, some social values into the programmes that we put out. There is a very elaborate programming code for broadcasters. They breach it from time to time. And when they do, I think we should rap their knuckles. But we should not rap them so hard as to stifle their creativity. And to help SBA do this, they have worked out with the industry a system of fines. So sometime towards the end of this year, SBA will say, "Okay, these are the programming guidelines. They were arrived at in consultation with the industry. If you make a mistake, we will fine you, maybe $1,000. If you are a repeated offender and seriously offensive, we may fine you $50,000." The objective is not to inflict financial hardship. It is to send a signal. Even within a TV station, there are many players in competition with each other. From time to time, they get offside and the referee may have to wave a card. And I think this is a way of institutionalising a process by which those who are recalcitrant are told off, and it will help the industry too. Sir, I thank Members and PAC and ACCESS committee members for bringing to our attention programmes which have been in breach like, Zhuo Ai Jin Shen and Chang He which, I agree, were screened at the wrong times. They were screened during family hours between 7-10 pm when adult themes were in the series. Mr Seng Han Thong talked about how TCS did not cover Wang Sa's death. I was overseas at that time. He was one of my constituents and he turned up for one of my block parties. At that time, he had weak legs. What struck me was that every one in the block party stood up when he walked into the compound. Such was the respect and reverence they had for him. People were very courteous. They were very keen to meet him, because he was a figure whom they remembered with great nostalgia, especially among older Singaporeans. I think it was a mistake for TCS not to have understood this immediately and reported his death. They did subsequently, after criticisms. They made up. But, at that time, somehow the instincts were not there and I suspect partly because young journalists, young editors, did not quite understand. And for these things, we cannot specify in advance. It is not possible. There must be a certain deep feeling for what we are and where we have come from. If you are not rooted here, if you are a journalist or an editor who has just been brought in from Hong Kong, Taiwan or whatever, you would not understand who is Wang Sa and how he made us laugh and cry some time ago. But I agree with Mr Shriniwas Rai that our stations and our news crews should ensure that while they should cover their own market segments, there must be a core which makes us all Singaporeans. In other words, whether you tune to TV12, Prime, Premiere, Channel 5 or Channel 8, and listen to the news in Malay, Chinese or Tamil, at the end of the day, it is still about Singapore. So when a big issue like Singapore's position in the financial crisis comes up, there should be a common position across all the news stations. And this is what the newsroom tries to do. They define a core but they allow a periphery which is for the particular ethnic station to decide. 2.00 pm Mr Shriniwas Rai asked if we could not have longer reports on Parliament and have it at prime time. We have tried many formulas in the past. At one stage, Mr Rai might have forgotten, we actually carried the Budget session live in the afternoon, and the viewership was so low, it was funny, and perhaps an insult to MPs. So gingerly we retreated and we said, "No, no. We only cover it when the issues warrant coverage during prime time." I think we have got it about right now. The key points are summarised, encapsuled and put out in news times, it is on InTV, it is carried. Then 15 minutes at the end of the news, it is not too big a pill to swallow. But if you have it too long, too extended, I think the viewership will plummet. And we have to worry about viewership. If our viewers develop a certain antagonism, a certain negative attitude, towards our television stations, they will not turn to it routinely. You know how some magazines turn us off. And even when they arrive on our desks, they go out to the out-tray immediately. While others, you will always leaf through. This is the kind of position which all our stations should try to maintain. When digital TV arrives, we may have to unbundle even more to ensure that every market segment is properly looked after. On TCS coverage of the SilkAir accident, in fact, TCS gave a lot of coverage to SilkAir. The problem, I believe, was that for certain news breaking items, foreign news stations and foreign journalists cover them before us. And that is because, as national broadcasters, TCS has a special responsibility for accurate news reporting. They could not confirm that an aeroplane was missing until CAAS told them so. Others were prepared to speculate and they could, because if they make a mistake they make a mistake. But CAAS cannot make that mistake, and TCS cannot make that mistake. The price we pay for that is that occasionally we may be a few minutes behind other stations, but it is a price well worth paying for the credibility that our stations enjoy among Singaporeans and in the world. I fully sympathise with Mr Rai's request for more Indian programmes, but it is difficult. For television, 16% of funding goes to Indian programmes compared to 23% for Malay, 34% for Chinese and 26% for English programmes. For radio, the Indian station get 33% of the revenues as opposed to 53% for Malay, 0% for Chinese and 14% for English. Within this budget allocation, we can try to do more. As Members know, Mr Dhanabalan chairs a Committee to try and improve our programming but there are certain limits to what we can do and I hope our Indian audiences will understand this. Even Tamil Murasu has a very low circulation of less than 10,000 and finds it hard to break even, which was why they sold out to SPH. Mr Chew Heng Ching asked whether we have plans to provide more radio services to enhance our position as an international financial centre. In fact, we do. We have managed to squeeze out three additional FM frequencies. RCS will be launching an all news station in October 1998. They can do this because they already run a 24-hour news room. The factory is there. It is creating another product. That additional product will be a 24-hour news radio. In addition, we are prepared now to have an international financial news station on FM, and we have discussed this with a number of foreign operators, like Bloomberg and Reuters. Some have expressed interest. We will tender out that particular station. In addition, to serve the various foreign communities in Singapore, we are also planning for an international radio station to broadcast in French, German and Japanese. But this will depend on private sponsorship because I do not think it is right to use public funds for this purpose. All this will help enhance our hub status. Cable TV, particularly the cabling of private estates, was raised by a number of MPs such as Mr Chew Heng Ching and Mr Iswaran. By the end of this year, all apartment blocks, HDB and private, will be cabled up. The last and most difficult bit is the landed properties because they are scattered over a wide area and we do not allow overhead cabling in Singapore. If we allow overhead cabling in Singapore, this is not a problem, we can just hang it from pole to pole and get into your house. However, we require it to be dug under. This is a matter of public policy and it has been so for a long time. This makes cabling rather more expensive. SCV is required by its licence to ensure that all estates are passed through by the end of 1999, which means that if you live in a semi-detached, or a terrace house or a bungalow, and you want it, you can have it. But you may have to pay for it, depending on where you live. If these are town houses and compact, then you will pay less. If you are living in a sprawling bungalow area, then you have to pay more. Even if you have to pay $2,000 for a house which is worth $10 million, I do not think it is disproportionate. It is not quite right to ask for a subsidy for the small number of Singaporeans who are already in the highest income bracket to be subsidised for having access to broadband. It is available to them. The infrastructure is already provided. But for the last bit to bring it into their homes, they must surely pay for that bit of it. It is like gas and electricity and water. The Government provides it to a particular point and you bring it into the house. I do not think it will be a problem because you cannot afford not to have it. Our objective in the end is to ensure that you have the telephone line, and with ADSL technology you can get a lot of bandwidth from it, and also a coaxial cable, and eventually there will probably be cellular wireless access into the house as well. Our whole telecommunication strategy is to ensure that within Singapore, bandwidth is not a problem at all. And for the kind of prices they are talking about for cabling, I do not think they are prohibitive. SCV, of course, can weight the payments differently. They can give you a free handphone and charge you a little more for the subscription. So they can tell private households, "I will charge you less to lay it into your house on condition that you subscribe for three years and I charge you a little more per month." But that is for SCV to decide. They are a private company and they have got to answer to their own shareholders. But they are required by their licence to ensure that all private estates are passed through by the end of 1999. Mr Low Thia Khiang asked whether we can jam satellite broadcasts instead of banning dishes. It is not easy. I think it is unbecoming of us to jam satellite broadcasts when we are an up-linking centre and a media hub. We have more subtle methods of achieving our purposes. That is the broadest blast approach one could think of. Mr Ong Ah Heng asked whether we would allow another major Chinese newspaper in Singapore. No, I do not think we would disallow it if the market can accommodate another major newspaper. Of course, we should not allow foreign control. We must ensure that whatever newspaper comes out, it feels a deep sense of responsibility for Singapore, and these conditions are adequately covered under the Newspapers and Printing Presses Act. Mr Sinnakaruppan talked about the use of handphone getting out of hand in Singapore. I fully agree with him. I will put it to the Courtesy Council for them to take it up. They have been talking about it. But I think Mr Sinnakaruppan is right. Maybe they should make it a particular subject of emphasis, maybe this year, next year, or at some opportune time. As for courtesy in cyberspace, I think they should also have a cyber courtesy campaign, particularly on soc.culture Singapore. Soc.culture Singapore, as Members know, is a kind of a market place, anything goes. But there is nothing to stop the Courtesy Council from seeding a civic group of cyber denizens who understand Netiqette and behave with a certain propriety, trying to influence the atmosphere and the way communication is carried out in that market place. On art policies, I would like to thank Mr Simon Tay for his stalwart and consistent support for the arts and artists. He made an important point that our objective is not just to trade in the arts which he inferred, when we said we want to be an arts hub. He said that we should foster local arts, and I agree with him entirely, in fact this has always been the objective of MITA and the NAC. It is very important that we foster the development of local arts because they express something very deep in the soul of the people. You ask yourself: what is the difference between a computer and a human being? Science, technology, solving calculus, memory banks, a computer can do any of these things, and do it better than we can. In the end, championship chess in the world will not be played between Deep Blue and Kasparov. It will be played between computers. So what is the difference between computers and human beings? Computers do not laugh and cry. They have no emotions. So the whole phenomenon of the art in human civilisation is not an add-on. It is not entertainment. It is something deep in the nature of man, in our biological and spiritual nature, which we do not fully understand. And to deny that aspect of us is a great danger. Then we will produce more Hector Yees. You may be very smart, but if you have no sense of where you came from, who your parents are, the schools you came from, the community from which you sprang, something is wrong. A computer programme, you press one button, the software gets transferred. You carry it from place to place, you buy it and you sell it. But human beings, like all animals, are not like that. A turtle may swim in the vast ocean but it never forgets the tiny stretch of beach from which it swam out. For birds and animals, it is encoded in the early memories. How much more for human beings! And the arts somehow reflect this. It is something from deep inside. And when we promote it, we are in fact affirming ourselves and our identity. Therefore, I agree with Dr Yaacob that we should make it a part of our education system, not in a stilted curricular way, prescribe it, you must have so much of it. No. But somehow to create an environment where people feel that they are incomplete without art. You may be very smart, but if you do not recognise this tune, or you cannot tell the difference between two paintings, there is something missing in you. If we can somehow create this environment in Singapore, then we would have succeeded. If we do not create this environment in Singapore, where the art carries no financial, moral or social value, then we will fail, and we will be a stunted tree which will not be able to take a storm. The word for it is pathos. How do you programme pathos into a computer and make it feel for people? You cannot. But a human being, even a Downs syndrome child, will have some of it in him or in her. This is the difference between a human life and a smart computer, and the reason why the arts are not an add-on, not a luxury, but something which is very important. And Government takes it as something which is very important. I think the private sector does as well because every time we have fund raising for a violinist or for a good cause, people turn up and try their best to be helpful. And interestingly, it is in times of crisis that real creative work is done, not in times of prosperity. In times of prosperity, you may have beautiful paintings and beautiful studios and so on. But deep feelings are the result of people caught with having to make tough choices, and re-examining the conditions of their existence and then coming up with new creative alternatives, and that is when artistic developments take place. So I see this financial crisis as being two-edged for the arts. It is not completely a bad thing. The crisis will itself provoke new thinking and deepen our sense of being Singaporean. The advantage of having our debate on bond-breaking here is that, at the end of it, our thoughts crystallise, the line between right and wrong is more clearly demarcated, our position is consolidated. Across the whole front now, because of the financial and economic crisis in the region, new positions will be established. This will make us stronger. It will better defend us as Singaporeans. For this, our musicians, our poets, our prose writers, our painters, our calligraphers, will make their contributions. 2.15 pm Busking - we try to do more. Firstly, what we do not want is for busking to become a glorified form of begging, which is the case in many cities in the West. A hippie comes along, short of cash, so he takes out his guitar, he opens his guitar case, he strums, and people throw in a few coins, and he gets some pocket money. I do not think that is what we want in Singapore. What we are hoping to create is something more like the Xinyao phenomenon which used to take place in the Bras Basah Complex. I have not been there recently. So I do not know whether it is still continuing. Every Saturday afternoon, school kids would go there. They put up a banner, they put up a microphone, and then they will sing beautiful songs, beautiful ballads which they themselves compose, and they provide their own audiences. And shoppers like us come along, stand for a while and say, "Oh, it is a good tune!", and clap, and cheer them along. Any Town Council, any HDB estate, Pasir Ris Resort, anyone of us here who is interested in bringing street performance to a particular place, spontaneous or otherwise, let the NAC know, and we will facilitate it. I think it is good for us. You enliven street life in Singapore and enliven our cultural scene here, but, please, do not turn busking into a form of begging, so that even parents are reluctant to have their children get involved in busking, which is the situation today. Dr Yaacob asked about LaSalle and NAFA. Dr Tony Tan has appointed Dr Tan Chin Nam to chair a committee to study how we can upgrade NAFA and LaSalle into fully funded arts institutions. The report will be coming out later this year, and I think we intend to fund them off fully, but without robbing them of their independence or killing their independent spirit. They both have got long histories; they survive, despite quite difficult conditions, and it is important that while we help them, we should not in helping them make them dependent on us and nationalise their activities. That is not the intention. But it is right that we pay much more attention to arts education. There were many comments about the film industry. Let me summarise by saying that we hope to promote it. We are setting up a Film Commission to facilitate film production in Singapore, not to finance film production because that is expensive business which is best left to the market, but to facilitate it, to promote Singapore as an Asian film festival centre and to be a one-stop centre. Many film producers face a lot of problems in Singapore getting permits. I remember once Andy Lau's manager coming to see me to get my help for a hot-air balloon to be put up over Singapore for a dramatic scene between Andy Lau and Li Nanxing, a final moment before some cataclysm occurred, and he wanted Singapore as a backdrop. But he could not get the permit from CAAS. So I asked my staff to help, and they helped. But by that time, the producer gave up, they went to Johor and shot the scene in Johor. We do not want that to be repeated and we should really facilitate the production of films in Singapore. That is good for us. Mr Rai talked about how to mark more places in Singapore in order that the island is scattered with memories. In fact, this is what the National Heritage Board has been trying to do. We have a programme now to identify buildings for preservation and for conservation. We mark many sites, about the old days, about the war, many of the things which we talked about will eventually be marked, including the marking of schools, and that is important because many of us have some of our most important memories from our school days. Raffles has been marked. So too ACS, RGS, Singapore Chinese Girls' School, Gan Eng Seng and St. Margaret's. We are also working on heritage trails, and eventually our objective is, whether you are in Changi or in Tuas, in Woodlands or in Sentosa, within a short distance there are markers telling you about the significance of different parts of Singapore at different periods of our history. And these are the things which will eventually cause Singapore turtles to remember the beach from which they swim to conquer the world. Mr Chew Heng Ching and Dr Yaacob Ibrahim asked me about the progress of our National Education Exhibition. It is in hand. The exhibition will be held from 7th to 31st July this year at Suntec City. The emphasis will be on Singapore's history from the early days, Second World War, the struggle for independence, our years in Malaysia, and having to go off on our own. The idea is to teach young Singaporeans who they are. I do not think we need very much to teach that they are Chinese, Indians, Malays or Muslims, or Buddhists - these things are powerfully transmitted through families and through religions - but that we are Singaporeans in good times and in bad, that is much harder. We have 11 public holidays a year. But most of them, eight of them, are ethnic or religious holidays - Christmas, Chinese New Year, Hari Raya, Thaipusam, Vesak, Good Friday.

I think it is not correct. Not Thaipusam. Deepavali.

Not Thaipusam, I am sorry. Deepavali. Only three days we celebrate together - the New Year, May Day, National Day. This is how much we celebrate together as a people. So we have a long way to go. Our ancestral history is much longer than our national history. We must give much more emphasis on our national history so that the parts of us which bind us together as Singaporeans will be strengthened. We hope to have up to half a million visitors to this Exhibition. It will be presented in all the four official languages and we estimate a budget of about $10 million. We hope that some of it can be privately funded, but the bulk of it will be funded by Government. This will supplement all our efforts in National Education, in our schools, by the various cultural associations, the clan associations, and so on. Dr Yaacob asked whether we should not fund private efforts. I think we should facilitate private efforts. We fund them if there is justification. If you take the Chinese Chamber, they have done very good work, every year organising the memorial remembrance at the civilian memorial. This year, over 1,500 students turned up, and they put up an exhibition which will now be compiled into a book. It is part of National Education for young Singaporeans to know of an event which shook us as a people and which created the most powerful influence on the nationalist movement here. There are many other efforts being made by various groups. I think they should be encouraged. Force 136, they worked with TCS to create a series called the Price of Peace, and this was very well received, and in the process of enjoying a very good TV serial, young Singaporeans learnt about a very important part of their past, when local people, despite the fact that they were a colonised people, fought, sacrificed their lives, in order to keep the land free. Time is running out. If I can summarise, the character of a people is shaped more by adversity than by prosperity. A long boom has ended. We are going through a period of crisis. It can be a very bad crisis. It can be a relatively minor crisis for us. But there is no doubt that across the region, it is a very major crisis. And because of this crisis, the character of Asia will change. The fundamental attitudes towards the market, towards America, towards China, towards Japan, towards religion, will change, as a result of this crisis. Our national character was very much forged as a result of the British colonial experience, of the Second World War, of the fight against the Communists, of our traumatic years in Malaysia, and of our need to survive when we became independent. In the same way, this crisis will reshape young minds, and young people who thought that the boom will never end, are suddenly confronted with the harsh reality of living in a tumultuous world, and discovering what their own strengths and weaknesses are. So if we put our minds to it, all of us, as teachers, as parents, as MPs, as entrepreneurs, as workers, as unionists, we can turn this crisis into a strengthening experience, once out of it, we will emerge much stronger as a people. In a crisis like this, either we go through it stronger or we go through it weakened. No one will go through it intact, everyone of us. No one is spared. But if we do it right, if the people and the Government work together, then I have no doubt that across all fields, we will emerge stronger.

Sir, may I seek clarification from the Minister. I am not asking the Government to jam up the satellite TV transmission. I am asking: is it so impossible for the Government to use the technology available to us to prevent clear transmission of pornographic signals to the homes, rather than banning satellite dish wholesale? The second clarification is: why has the Government decided to spend so much in laying the cable network and then at the end, people have to pay for the subscription? Why did the Government not consider installing a central satellite dish at HDB blocks? And I understand that quite a lot of programmes transmitted through satellite are free.

Mr Low's first point. I think what he was describing is a form of jamming. And it is a very crude way of blocking out foreign broadcast. I am not sure if it can be done. I have got to discuss it with my experts. But it is not a method we will contemplate. On Mr Low's second point about the cabling exercise, it is done as a private undertaking by SCV. SCV is a private company. It is not owned by the Government, and it includes an American investor who has 20% in it.

Point of clarification, Sir.

Order. We have run out of time. Mr Chew.

Sir, on behalf of Members, I thank the Minister for his thorough and convincing replies. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment No.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head R of the Main Estimates be reduced by $10 in respect of Code RH 3100. (In Malay) On 14th February 1998, the month-long Chinese Cultural Festival was launched. A number of interesting events were held. For example, to attract the English speakers, Teochew opera was presented with English subtitles. The Festival succeeded in attracting many sponsors such as the People's Association, the Federation of Chinese Clans Association and Shell group. This shows that there is no lack of grassroots organisations and corporate bodies who are prepared to support cultural and artistic programmes. In this connection, there is feedback that the Malay community would also like to hold a similar festival. This is a good idea and I hope it would have Government assistance. I am not referring to financial assistance, although we will not decline it. The assistance needed is in the form of opportunities to publicise the festival in the mass media and Government media, and publicity by organisations like the Singapore Tourism Board and SIA. At the same time, assistance is also needed to secure performance venues. I believe the Malay community, like the other communities, want to spread their culture not only to the other communities but also to the tourists. In view of the fact that this will be an inaugural effort, Government assistance, as I mentioned earlier, will be important to ensure the success of this festival. Our dream to make Singapore a cultural hub needs the contribution of all communities in Singapore. The Malay community would also like to contribute in one way or another towards making this dream a reality.

Dr Yaacob, there is no time to discuss your amendment. Consideration of Code RH 3100 terminated upon the expiry of time fixed for Head R. The sum of $196,764,350 for Head R ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $183,938,200 for Head R ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head M -

Head M - Ministry of the Environment. Amendment No. (1), Mr Heng Chiang Meng. 2.30 pm

Sir, I beg to move, That the total sum to be allocated for Head M of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100. Sir, last year, I spoke on the issue of improving environmentally friendly and responsible behaviour through the use of financial incentives. I am happy to note that the Ministry of the Environment has managed to persuade the Minister for Finance to do this. Because in his recent Budget, the Minister for Finance has provided for accelerated depreciation allowances for industrial noise and chemical hazard control. Sir, I do not wish to appear ungrateful. But I must say that it is not enough. Environmental awareness leading to responsible environmental behaviour rests with individuals, not companies. Company decisions are in fact made by individuals and such decision makers will by the nature of their trusteeship make decisions for the good of their company's bottom line. When such decisions get translated into environmentally friendly practices, Sir, it is usually incidental and not by design. Hence, I believe that to achieve responsible environmental behaviour, the Government must begin with influencing the individuals. In fact, if one can induce environmental awareness to be part of an individual's personal value system and environmentally friendly behaviour to be part and parcel of an individual's behaviour, there will be no need to persuade companies to behave in a responsible manner. They would do so on their own accord because their decision makers will do it as a matter of routine. It is the right thing if it is part of their value system. Sir, the current policy regarding the inculcation of environmental awareness and hopefully responsible behaviour in individuals is through public education. It is good and we should continue to do so. But again, it is not adequate. Environmental awareness does not automatically translate into environmentally responsible behaviour. We simply do not have the necessary social discipline. Otherwise there is no need for littering penalties and CWOs. Sir, public education in this important social behaviour must be augmented by financial incentives, whether positive or negative, as in penalties for littering. So if we are prepared to use negative financial incentives to punish environmentally and socially irresponsible behaviour, what so wrong with positive incentives to reinforce environmentally responsible behaviour? Why cannot, for example, we give tax rebates for household expenditure related to environmentally friendly practices? We already had done so in the past for expenditure related to gardening. Why cannot we do so again? Why cannot we give tax rebates to those who install solar heating systems? Why cannot we reduce the PARF for electric vehicles? Sir, these are only some examples which come to mind. I am sure the Ministry would have many others if only the idea is accepted. Today, we are already considered the most environmentally aware country in this part of the world. Let us also be the most environmentally protected country. Sir, with our small land mass, it is imperative for us to be so. And the only way to start on this difficult journey is to utilise all ways and means, including financial incentives, to inculcate environmentally responsible behaviour in individuals.

Prof. Low is not here. Mr Simon Tay.

Sir, I think that in talking about this cut on trans-boundary pollution, some backgrounding is necessary. The first is that, clearly, as Mr Heng has pointed out, we are a very small country. It behoves us therefore to recognise that the region we are in is one ecological system, that we are interdependent with our neighbours, in the Straits of Malacca and the Straits of Johor, in airborne pollution which we see now in the haze and the fires in Indonesia, and that there are also economic links together with the environment. Singapore as a vast port of the region has a great hand in trade, including that of potentially hazardous materials. Sir, I think that Singapore has been a good citizen in accepting its responsibility to do our best not to cause harm to our neighbours or to allow other companies, ships that pass through, things that we can control, from passing on this harm to our neighbours. In this past year, our country has acceded to the Basel Convention, the limitation of course being that our ability to control the transhipment of hazardous materials is encumbered by our wish to have a very busy port and it is impossible for us to play policeman for all our neighbours. So we have a system where we are part of the larger web. The harm caused and harm suffered to us are interwoven. In seeing this therefore, Sir, I think that the policy of the Ministry and of this Government as regards environmental trans-boundary pollution must take on a new chapter. This is to increasingly recognise an international principle. This principle is called common but differentiated responsibility. This principle suggests that we have a common aim to have a cleaner environment, whether in the sea or in the haze pollution. But our countries have different responsibilities, Sir, as regards our ability to deal with this problem to come out with a solution or to prevent the problem in the first place. Sir, focusing on the haze pollution, a recent study has suggested that the region as a whole has suffered some $1.4 billion worth of damage. Singapore, in the study, was estimated to have suffered some $90 million in damages. Sir, this is a preliminary study. I think these figures are undervalued. The global cost of the haze pollution in terms of bio-diversity and the release of CO2 climate change gases has not been factored in, for example. I think the principle of common but differentiated responsibility, Sir, would be very helpful for the Ministry in moving us beyond finger-pointing, either our neighbours pointing fingers at us for whatever harm we may cause them or us, as the Government, as the people, pointing fingers at our neighbours. I think this finger-pointing and blame allegation is not helpful . Sir, what we need to do, and I was very heartened by the Minister's statement in reply to a question I filed at an earlier sitting, is to internationalise the concern and attention that the haze pollution problem needs. Much as the regional economic crisis has had to have an international response, I believe, Sir, that it is timely that our Government has welcomed the move by the United Nations Environment Programme to call for international attention. Sir, in this new push towards international attention to the trans-boundary haze pollution that faces Singapore, Singapore must do more. Beyond what we can do as a small nation for ourselves and beyond what we have put into our work at the regional level, we must do our bit to support this international attention and effort. Sir, I have spoken in the previous cut on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that Singapore needs to do more to assist the United Nations Environment Programme. I still say so but I will not repeat my point in detail. Sir, if and when international cooperation for the haze comes, Singapore should be among the first countries to fulfil our obligation under the principle of common but differentiated responsibility. If our technical and financial and other forms of assistance can go well beyond the rather modest sums we have given and help we have given in terms of computerisation and satellite imaging, this should continue and we should add to them. This is not just for good neighbourliness. It is in our self-interest to do so. And in that sense, Sir, I wish that the Minister will provide some assurance that it is the policy of the Ministry to join in any pending international effort and that there will be both the political will and the budgetary reserves to do so.

Sir, my cut is on the topic "Cooperation to solve haze problem". Singapore as a good ASEAN neighbour has tolerated the haze problem for too long. The haze problem has been with us for six years since 1992. ASEAN Environment Ministers have met and discussed the problem but nothing concrete appears to have come out of those meetings. I hope that at the next ASEAN Environment Ministers' meeting, our Minister shall use stronger words to put the message across to the Indonesian Environment Minister. Singapore cannot tolerate the haze problem any longer. The costs are too high. It is not only a big financial loss to Singapore but, more importantly, the haze is a health hazard. It is reported in the Straits Times today that the haze caused Singapore $104 million last year. This amount comprised loss by the tourism industry, $81.8 million, health cost incurred was $12.5 million and the airline industry's loss of business was estimated at $9.7 million. We have just heard Mr Simon Tay that the actual loss may even be more than this amount of $104 million. These monetary losses do not take into account the long-term effects from cancer and other diseases. The price is too high. I would urge our Minister at the next round of the ASEAN Environment Ministers' meeting to put across to the Indonesians the message that the haze problem cannot be tolerated any more by Singaporeans. It is true that the haze problem is an international one. But the Indonesians in the first place must be made responsible for it. The haze originates in their country. International help, however good the intention, from friendly nations or international organisations like UNEP can only go so far. The brunt of eliminating the problem rests squarely on the shoulders of the Indonesians themselves. If the Indonesians do care for their good name and reputation as a country that assumes full international responsibilities, then it is incumbent on them to make more stringent laws and take more effective enforcement action to wipe out the haze problem. The haze problem is a serious problem. It is not just a question of smoke being blown from one country to another country. The haze contains tiny harmful pollutants. In addition to some very toxic gases, these tiny pollutants known as respiratory suspended particles (RSPs) cannot be stopped by wearing cloth masks. These pollutants can only be stopped through the wearing of heavy war time type of gas masks. But using such masks is impractical. According to medical sources, the best solution is to move out of the region. This we certainly cannot do. So are we to breathe these harmful pollutants for six to eight months a year depending on the weather? If the haze is not eliminated, we may have a whole nation of sick people in 10 to 15 years' time. This certainly again we do not want. It is therefore important to once and for all resolve the haze problem with the Indonesians. I shall say that if the Minister for the Environment insists on being polite to the Indonesians, then he should consider telling them politely that we shall take them to the International Court if the haze problem is still unresolved. 2.45 pm

Sir, the immediate health hazards caused by haze, like eyes, nose and throat irritation, skin rashes, asthma and other respiratory problems are obvious. The long-term ill-effects, however, are not so easily determined. A study from Harvard University suggested that particulate pollution over a period of time was strongly associated with deaths from lung cancer and heart disease. Another study showed that particulate pollution reduced the average life expectancy by one to three years in some of the polluted cities. May I ask the Minister for the Environment if his Ministry would analyse all the available data and enlighten the public on the various possible long-term effects. And since we are in the thick of our own particular type of haze, would his Ministry be planning our own study, maybe in collaboration with the World Health Organisation, on the short-term as well as the long-term health hazards of the pollution problem in the region? Sir, these findings will benefit not only ourselves but also our neighbors. It will enable all of us in the region to be more resolute in curbing the problem and to be more prepared in dealing with the ill-effects of the haze.

Sir, it looks like we are bracing ourselves to be hit by another few months of health-threatening haze condition, and it is predicted to be worse than what we had suffered last year. Despite all the international and regional efforts in trying to deal with this hazard, very little headway has been made. And I do not think it is as simple as Mr Chiam says, just to be tough with the Indonesians. Because, I believe, the Ministry of the Environment and the international environment organisation are fully committed to battle the serious problem in this region. But, realistically, we have to resign ourselves to the fact that there is nothing much that can be done, at least for the coming months. Therefore, it is important for us to make preparations to deal with this problem ourselves internally. Last year, we made improvements in the early warning system and much has been done to alert our Singaporeans on the impact and condition of the haze daily. But most of the average Singaporeans are still at a loss on how to react when the condition worsens. I would suggest that the Ministry draw up a comprehensive plan on what action can the average Singaporean take when the haze hazard strikes, especially measures to be taken by schools, old folks' homes and any other crowded public areas. For example, the Ministry can advise every school, old folks' home and public premises where there is no air-conditioning to at least provide one room equipped with air-conditioning, so that those who are more sensitive to breathing problems can take refuge. They could also conduct public seminars and talks to better educate the public on how to lessen the negative effects of this problem, and provide technical advice such as recommending special filters to all air-conditioning units, provide more information on all available air purifiers or the type of masks, if any, that can reduce the effect of the smog and harmful particles, or any other measures that can make our population safer. Because, at this moment, the health and well-being of all Singaporeans should be of the utmost importance.

Sir, first, let me thank all the Members who have spoken up and have made very useful suggestions. I shall reply in the order of the Members who have spoken. First, I am glad that Mr Heng Chiang Meng is happy with the fact that the Finance Ministry has now also extended tax incentives for companies which have introduced more energy efficient equipment. But I would like to point out to him that the state of the environment in Singapore has been of high international standards, even though much of the actions have been taken without tax incentives. I think this points to the fact that, firstly, our regulations have been very well structured and, secondly, that we have been able to impress on companies the need to be good corporate citizens and to take the necessary steps to reduce pollution voluntarily. In fact, I am happy to say that most companies have introduced measures which reduce their pollution levels far below what is stipulated. It shows that the awareness is there. Therefore, while incentives are useful, incentives are not everything. If we have to depend on incentives for each and every action, I think our companies would not really be reacting at all on their own. Sir, I also agree with him that individuals can play a useful part in enhancing environmental compliance, and this is what we are doing. We are educating the public through various mechanisms at the school level, through grassroots organisations and by working with the NGOs. Sir, I believe that, as the environmental awareness increases, Singaporeans will become more discerning consumers of products and that we should not be using incentives to influence Singaporeans on what to buy, because it is not just in terms of electric vehicles or solar heaters, but there are so many products available, whose manufacturers claim that their products are more environmentally friendly and are more energy efficient. And for Government to get involved in vetting them and then giving incentives for each of them, I think would really distort the market. It is better that these products are sold based on the values they give to the people, and let us not intervene too much by giving incentives. But we should continue educating our people so that they are more discerning in terms of what they buy. And, hopefully, over time, they will be buying things which are also more environmentally friendly. Mr Simon Tay has asked that I reassure the House about Government's policy in terms of joining in the regional and international efforts on the haze problem. Sir, Singapore was very forthcoming on a bilateral basis, because we realise that the haze problem is one which cannot be tackled by Indonesia alone. The problem is much too big for the country and especially in today's context of the economic turmoil, their ability to tackle the haze at source is a lot more diminished, which is why at the last Ministerial meeting in February, the Indonesians were very willing to straightaway join us in issuing a call for international assistance. And I am glad also that UNEP was there at the meeting and UNEP has assured us that the UN itself would be very interested in getting involved in resolving this problem. I can assure Mr Tay that when UNEP finally comes up with a package of needed assistance, Singapore will be amongst the countries to review the assistance required and we will do our part in helping to push the assistance programme and effort forward. Mr Chiam has spoken very strongly and I appreciate his concern which many of us share as well. It is just that we are a little bit more circumspect but, nonetheless, we too are very concerned about the impact of the haze on not just the health of Singaporeans but also the overall regional economy. Sir, in trying to resolve the problem, I think one must also analyse and see what is the most effective approach. Will shouting be counter productive or will shouting help to resolve the problem? If it is counter productive, then I think we should not shout too loudly but use better persuasive tools. Let me give Members an example about Miri. Miri is in Malaysia, if Mr Chiam does not know. It is in the west of Kalimantan, northern part of Sarawak. Miri recently was totally blanketed by smoke haze from fires within Sarawak itself, so much so that the airport had to be closed and the PSI level was 300-400. You cannot even see beyond 50 metres. And this is Malaysia. This is not Indonesia. At first, the Malaysians had to despatch 500 people from peninsular Malaysia to Miri to help fight the fire, supplement whatever resources Sarawak had for fighting the fires. And when that was not enough, they had to further send another batch of 500, and I think there are a total of 1,000 fire fighters now, from peninsular Malaysia supplementing the resources that Sarawak has. So even for Malaysia with all the resources, when the fires broke out in Miri, they had so much trouble trying to control it. And today, the fires are still raging, and this is only a small part of Sarawak, which is again a small part of the whole of Kalimantan. From Singapore, we look at fires and we say that we should put out that fire. After all, whenever there is a fire, fire engines go there and within a few hours, the fire is put out. In the context of Kalimantan, if we put Singapore on the map of Kalimantan, it is just a dot in Kalimantan. The fires in Kalimantan are huge. Some of the fires there would probably engulf the whole of Toa Payoh, including Potong Pasir. That is how huge it is. To expect Indonesia to have the resources, I think it is expecting a little bit too much, which is why we have to bring it to the international level, bring in international expertise and know-how and, more important, put in place a long-term mechanism which will help the Indonesians to solve it on a continuing basis, rather than every year trying to fight the fires, and this is what we are trying to achieve. Dr Lily Neo has asked whether there are long-term studies on the impact of the haze. At the moment, we are using the PSI as a measurement of the haze level. PSI which stands for pollutants standard index, is a system that was devised by the US Environmental Protection Agency, and the system has been derived after many years of extensive study on the impact on health when people live in environments of a certain level of pollution. They have a system where if you measure and find that the level of pollution there is within the PSI of 50, this is a healthy environment. Between 50 and 100, it is moderate. Between 100 and 200, it is unhealthy. This study is based on long-term observations. But studies are not available in the context of what we are facing or what we had last year, 12 days where PSI was between 100-150. 3.00 pm In fact, we have been in contact with the World Health Organisation and the WHO has informed us, not just Singapore but also Malaysia and the other countries, that they will be very keen to do a long-term health impact study from the haze. We have informed WHO that Singapore would be very keen to work with them. When the results are out, I will definitely keep the Members informed. Mr Kenneth Chen has said that Singaporeans are still at a loss as to what to do when the haze hits and whether we can have a larger publicity programme. This year, realising that the likelihood of a haze is very high, in fact my Ministry has already embarked on a public education programme. Members will probably have read in the papers a few weeks ago about the information that we have released on the use of air cleaners and filters. We cannot clean the entire atmosphere in Singapore. There is no way for us to go out and have a giant vacuum cleaner. But we can reduce the personal space to be protected to either the home or the office, because that is where many people spend much of their time. In the office, office owners can install filters in the air-conditioning systems because most of the offices in Singapore are air-conditioned. We have written to most of the building owners and we hope that they will be doing something. At home, those families whose homes are air-conditioned can install filters. For others, whose homes are not air-conditioned, they can purchase air cleaners, and the price of the air cleaners would vary from about $300 to $900 and above. So there is a broad range and there are products that will fit into each person's budget. For those who are working outdoors, Mr Chiam was saying, "Well, because the particles are so fine, we need to wear a war time gas mask." I am glad to inform Mr Chiam that technology has actually gone a lot further than that, and that respirator masks are now available. They are very light but still effective enough to filter out most of the fine sub-micron particles. They are not very comfortable and this is why we have been advising the public that for those with chronic cardio-respiratory illnesses, it may be advisable for them to wear one, but they should only do so with the advice of their own doctors. For those who are working outdoors, if the PSI does get up above 200, it may be useful for them to also wear a respiratory mask if they have to work outdoors for a very long period. Sir, we will continue to publicise the different measures. As suggested by Mr Kenneth Chen, we will also continue to give talks to the schools as well as give talks over the mass media. I think I have answered all the points.

Order. I propose to take the tea break now. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Order. I suspend the Sitting and will take the Chair again at 3.30 pm. Sitting accordingly suspended at 3.04 pm until 3.30 pm. Sitting resumed at 3.30 pm

Debate in Committee of Supply resumed.

Head M (cont.) -

Amendment No. (1). Mr Chiam, you wanted to seek clarification.

I have decided not to.

Prof. Low.

Sir, I missed my cut just now. I would like to ask the Minister for clarification regarding the matter of haze. May I ask the Minister whether it is possible for us to initiate some sort of international agreement within ASEAN, so that the culprit, who started the fire and caused the haze to us, besides being punishable under the local law, could also be summoned to the country affected and be answerable to the damage that he has caused to the country concerned and pay compensation. The other point I would like to ask the Minister is about certain companies which started fire in a foreign country. I think it is not easy to find out which are these companies and who are the directors. Can we consider blacklisting this kind of companies and the directors? Also, at the same time, we can prevent them from entering Singapore and also from tendering for public sector jobs.

Sir, before one can have a regional agreement on trans-boundary pollution, there must first be a consensus amongst the countries involved that there is a need for such an agreement. I have informally mooted the idea to my counterparts, but, unfortunately, there was absolutely no support for it. Sir, in the meantime, we have been doing some research. We have reviewed similar agreements elsewhere to see what sort of provisions they have. I must say that whilst there are international agreements, they are quite disappointing because what we have found is that all the agreements contain no provisions for penalties or payment of compensation, and they are mainly statements of intent and commitment. Therefore, they are not enforceable at all. In terms of the companies, Sir, in the first place, we have to wait for the Indonesians to investigate and then to prosecute them. Once they have prosecuted them and the companies are convicted, we can proceed to get information about those companies. And even then, I do not think it is really our role to blacklist them. And neither should we be involved in enforcing their law for them. It is better that those penalties and punishments be meted out in Indonesia under their laws. If our companies are involved, they should pay the penalties as well. And, in fact, if we are aware of those companies in which Singapore companies have part share in, we will be very happy to also, in Singapore, advise those Singaporeans involved to comply with Indonesian law. And the Indonesian law is very clear - burning of land for clearing purposes, for conversion into plantations, is illegal. And we have always insisted that Singaporeans, when going abroad, should comply with all the laws of the host country.

Sir, the topic I would like to talk about is vehicle pollution. In 1989, I spoke on the subject of energy conservation through the use of diesel vehicles. Precisely because a diesel vehicle is significantly more efficient compared with a gasoline powered vehicle, almost all trucks and taxis in Singapore which have very high fuel consumption choose to use diesel. Sir, despite being energy efficient, poorly maintained diesel powered vehicles pollute the air by emitting soot in the exhaust. Every day, we could spot a few diesel vehicles emitting black smoke that pollutes the air and the particulates from the soot could have bad health effect to the other road users and also to those who live near the road. I would like to ask the Minister how many diesel vehicles were caught last year for emitting black smoke. How does this figure compare with that of the previous year? Based on modern technology, diesel design could easily meet the stringent pollution control we implement in Singapore. The problem of diesel smoke is due to poor maintenance, poor workshop practice and a lack of knowledge on modern fuel technology. In my Budget debate speech last year, I mentioned about the diesel detergent additive which was really good in reducing diesel smoke through its keep- clean ability. I would like to suggest to the Ministry to have a publicity programme to let the diesel fleet operators and the truck and taxi drivers understand, first, what is the role of engine maintenance in relation to pollution; second, what are the wrong workshop practices which should be avoided and watched out for; and third, how does the fuel affect or shorten the duration before the next maintenance. This kind of programme could be taught on a different occasion, like at the time when a driver receives his Class 3 or Class 4 driving licence, or when a new taxi licence is issued. It can also be taught to persons who were caught repeatedly violating the soot emission regulation. Sir, in the long term, when we no longer have problem with the soot emitted from diesel vehicles, we should then consider progressively allowing more diesel vehicles, in particular diesel cars, on the road with some favourable regulations for the sake of energy conservation. Sir, could I take the next cut?

Yes.

Sir, the next cut I would like to talk about is noise pollution. Recently, the residents have complained in The Straits Times about the construction noise in the Chestnut housing estate in my constituency. I had also personally experienced similar construction noise in my own housing estate where work was carried out at night. Sir, there is regulation on the control of noise from construction sites. This is in terms of the noise level they could emit from the boundary of the construction site and when the noisy work should not be carried out. All the construction companies understand the rules and regulations. Despite warnings and fines that could possibly be imposed by the Ministry, work was still carried out and it disturbed the peaceful life of the people who live near the construction site. One of the reasons, I was told, was the heavy penalty imposed by the developer for late delivery of the project, which was much more severe than a fine which could possibly be imposed by the Ministry. I would like to ask the Minister whether we have adequate laws to deal with the construction companies or developers who break the noise regulations. Are the punishments or fines effective enough to deter repeated offenders? If not, will the Minister consider revising the level of penalty or introducing other new punitive measures to make it more effective? Could the Ministry have the power to stop work at the site if the construction company defies the existing law?

Sir, since 1984, the world has generally experienced higher temperature. During this period it recorded 13 years of the warmest weather in history. It is predicted that the world will be getting warmer and warmer in the future. In Singapore, in the last few weeks, we have experienced some of the highest temperatures in the last 50 years. Some have attributed this unusual condition to the El Nino phenomenon. As Singapore is a hot and humid country, if the mean temperature goes up by even 1 or 2 degrees, it will greatly affect our comfort level and make our hot and humid air that much more unbearable. The decision to make Singapore a Garden City by extensively greening our city has created some positive results. Not only psychologically we feel that we are living in a more pleasant and cooler environment, it is also estimated that our mean temperature might have gone down by one or two degrees. Are there plans to further intensify this environmentally friendly measure to our city? For example, can we introduce more water-scape into our public area, because water is a very effective cooling agent? As heat intensifies in hard concrete surface, can we limit the extent of open paved area in our city and provide as much lawn area as possible? The concept of huge open paved plaza is environmentally unfriendly to a tropical country like ours. In Hong Kong's CBD area, the buildings are connected by either underground passages or overhead bridges which are environmentally controlled, so that one can walk for miles without having to be exposed to the external weather. We should have more water-protected people movers connecting our buildings. All these, together with keeping our air pollution free, should help to lessen the warming effect in our weather condition. I would like to know whether the Ministry of the Environment has done any study on the effect of global warming, how does it affect our general weather condition in Singapore, and in what way can we condition our environment so that the effect of this warming condition can be reduced.

Sir, we have a very clean Singapore and we must all be grateful to the Ministry of the Environment for having maintained such a high standard. Few cities can boast this as we can. Our roads are clean and our backlanes are swept every day. But there is one aspect which is rather disturbing, and this is littering by not only the illiterate, but the literate. If one were at the bus stops, or in MRT stations where a lot of pamphlets are distributed, we find papers lying all over. The worst culprits are the bus commuters. They leave their tickets everywhere. Then the next culprits are the smokers. After smoking they will throw the cigarettes in the drain where it is an open drain. Sir, despite large amounts of money being spent on education and social condemnation of this act by asking them to do corrective work, it has not worked. I think we have to find a solution. And I urge the Minister that perhaps we should reconsider the position and appoint what I call voluntary based officers or friends of the environment who should be empowered to book these people and make them appear in court rather than compound the offence. Similarly, in the town councils, more of such officers could be appointed. And I think every Government agency should be asked to help in this process because if we do not check this, Sir, I think we will have to pay a lot of money in keeping our city clean. Sir, I know the Minister has taken pains to see that things are maintained clean, but I think something has to be done if we want to maintain our reputation. Especially the people who distribute pamphlets, they go around HDB flats and distribute a lot of things. If you go to any of the estates, you will find litter all over the litter boxes. Sir, both HDB as well as the other departments have to work out a solution. And I appeal to the Minister to take whatever steps to socially disgrace these people and to make them realise that it is not worthwhile littering. 3.45 pm

Mr Choo is not here. Mr Rai, you can proceed with the next topic.

Thank you, Sir. First of all, I must declare my interest. I am the owner of a private property in one of the very old housing estates with open drains. Sir, the Prime Minister has gone on record that he would help the private property owners to upgrade, not internally of course. But surely something could be done to the environment, like the example I am going to quote. Many of the housing estates which were built in the 1960s and 1970s have open drains. I am urging the Ministry to consider this proposal. As I have seen that in some older HDB estates like Hougang, where I used to live some time back, HDB has actually closed the drains and they are very tidy and neat. If the same could be done to the private housing estates, it would beautify the estate. They could put some potted plants and it would be greener and nicer. The Minister must bear in mind that these people pay considerable income tax as well as property tax, unlike the benefits which HDB flat owners get. I do not think they are given any benefit at all so far. So I would urge him to proceed by stages and surely he could get some money from some other funds and try it out in one estate. If it is feasible, I would urge him to do it all over Singapore. I know the new estates do not require this because it is a requirement of the Environment Ministry. But I am concerned that some of these old estates are in fact worse off than some of the HDB estates. Let us not treat these private property owners as untouchable Brahmins. They have contributed quite well to the coffers. Let us compensate them and at least give these things to them.

Sir, my speech is on pasar malam. Sir, pasar malams are part of the way of life in HDB housing estates. The pasar malams are a sort of flea market where residents can browse and buy goods at very reasonable prices. The Ministry of the Environment is the Government body that issues the main permit to hold pasar malams although if cooked foods are sold, a permit is required from the Ministry of Health. Permits to hold pasar malams are issued only to the PAP grassroots organisations and some other charitable organisations. Opposition Members of Parliament have no formal grassroots organisations. They apply for pasar malam permits to hold these fairs in the name of their town council. The Ministry of the Environment recognises this kind of application by the town councils. In the past, the town council at Potong Pasir had no problems getting the necessary permits to organise pasar malams. But commencing 1995, the Potong Pasir Town Council has been completely denied the opportunity to do so. All the quotas to hold pasar malams at Potong Pasir for those three years up to 1997 were allocated to the Potong Pasir CCC instead. Sir, in this sense, the MOE has not been fair in dealing with the allocation of quotas to hold pasar malams at Potong Pasir. First, it changes the rules and, secondly, it has been unfair in implementing the rules. When the Potong Pasir Town Council applied to hold pasar malams in 1995, it was surprised to learn that the CCC had been allocated the quota for two years, that is, the full 32 days to hold a marathon pasar malam for more than one month. Pasar malam permits are normally issued for only one year but for that year, the MOE bent its rules and favoured the CCC and gave it a two-year quota in one year. In 1997, the permit to hold a pasar malam was also issued to the CCC. The Potong Pasir Town Council again was denied the opportunity to hold pasar malam that year. I hope ENV would change its rules and allocate permits to hold pasar malams fairly to the Opposition and the PAP-controlled grassroots organisations. Sir, our national pledge says that we believe in justice and equality. But as far as ENV is concerned, they do not believe in justice and equality in the issue of pasar malam permits at Potong Pasir. ENV should respect the elected Member of Parliament for that constituency and at least allocate to him a few days a year for his town council to organise pasar malams. In Potong Pasir, I, as the elected MP, have been ridden roughshod over and pushed aside. I am deprived of organising a pasar malam for three years. Such a situation should be corrected.

Sir, I will first answer the cuts from Prof. Low Seow Chay. Prof. Low in his cut talked about the diesel powered vehicles, that they tend to be smoky even though they are more fuel efficient and asked what is the number of diesel vehicles that were found to be smoky and were caught. Sir, in 1997, about 2.7% of the diesel driven vehicles were found to be smoky and this is a vast improvement from 1989 where about 8% of the vehicles which were smoky were actually caught. He also asked that we give some publicity programme to drivers, especially when they are getting their licence, on the proper use of the engine of the vehicles and on engine maintenance. Sir, I believe this has already been done. As part of the training programme, the learner drivers are taught not just how to drive but also the theory behind the use of a diesel driven vehicle and part of that theory includes how the engine works, the maintenance and how they should not over rev with their engine. Sir, he also talked about the choice of fuel. I like to inform Prof. Low that in Singapore, all the diesel that is sold for vehicles at the fuel pumps are all already provided with additives. I understand that the diesel additives help to clean the fuel injector and therefore make the burning process a lot more efficient, thereby reducing the risk of smoke. And I also understand that some fleet owners do not buy from the petrol stations. They contract directly with the oil companies to buy in bulk and that the diesel provided to them is also similar to the diesel provided to the petrol stations, ie, most of the diesel used in Singapore is already provided with the additives. Sir, his second cut was on noise pollution. What are the laws against contractors who work at night and who break the noise regulations? Sir, I agree with Prof. Low that the penalties at the moment are fairly low compared to the liquidated damages the contractor will have to pay if he was late in completing the project. However, what we have also available to us is a heavier tool which is a stop-work order. So far, we have not applied that. But recently, we have been getting more complaints about noise and I have asked my officers to look into using that as a final measure. If a contractor repeatedly works at night and breaks the regulation on noise after three or four times, we should tell him that, "Look, this is the final warning. We will compound it this time but next time, we will give you a stop-work order." This will force them to plan their work better and make sure that the noisy works are all done in the day and that the work that does not generate much noise can then be done at night. I will answer the points made by Chiam. Sir, he said that ENV does not believe in justice and equality and that we are very unfair to Potong Pasir Town Council and I am very unfair to Mr Chiam himself. Sir, let me first explain the need to regulate pasar malams, as he called it. Pasar malam is not a way of life. It may have been a way of life when we were small kids. Then the shops were poorly stocked and therefore we needed the pasar malams, which moved from one place to another. Today, the housing estates are well-provided with shopping centres. In fact, in some of the housing estates the shopkeepers have already complained that there are too many shops and that their businesses are badly affected. Therefore, we have to control the proliferation of pasar malams. That is why ENV came out with the change in regulations in 1994 whereby Residents' Committees are given three days in a year for pasar malams and that the constituency organizations like CCCs, CCMCs, the town council, of which Mr Chiam is the Chairman, I presume, are all entitled to one pasar malam session a year, a maximum of 16 days. But in applying the rules, we also have introduced some flexibility. Town councils and constituency organizations like CCCs and CCMCs can now apply to combine two years' quota into one for the simple reason that many of the pasar malams are now no longer small little things. They have kiddy rides, they have Ferris wheels, with heavy equipment. If they are only brought in for 16 days, they are not viable. And having listened to the grassroots leaders, we have agreed that we should be flexible. Town councils and constituency organizations can therefore apply to have two years' quota combined into one. Is ENV unfair and has ENV been unfair in the past? Sir, the answer is no. Other town councils have managed to run their trade fairs and Mr Chiam may wish to know that Bukit Gombak had done it two years in a row, ie, 1995-1996, when it was still under SDP. Nee Soon Central Town Council also got their quota in 1996. So it is not a matter that ENV is being very selective in approving the applications. If Mr Chiam had applied based on the guidelines, he would have got his approved as well. I understand that he applied very far in advance and he was told that he has to apply within two months and not further. I suggest that the next time, he makes sure that he applies within a stipulated time and it will definitely be approved. There is no reason for us not to approve if he complies with all the requirements. I will now ask my Senior Minister of State to reply to the other questions. 4.00 pm The Senior Minister of State for the Environment (Encik Sidek bin Saniff): Sir, Mr Kenneth Chen asked about global warming. The recent warm weather was the result of dry weather conditions and the general lack of clouds over Singapore. The warm spell is a short-term variation and is most likely attributable to the impact of the El Nino phenomenon. Global warming, on the other hand, is very gradual, long-term process. It has generally been projected that the average global temperature may rise between 1-3.5 Celsius by the year 2100, should greenhouse gases such as carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide and chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs) continue to be released at current rates Mr Kenneth Chen also suggested tree planting and water schemes to help cool the city. Such efforts will provide some localised relief. In fact, tree planting is an established practice in Singapore. Given the scarcity of land, Mr Chen's suggestion of water schemes such as ponds may not be as workable. It is perhaps best to leave the provision of features such as ponds and water fountains to the developers. While local actions help to provide some relief, the key to overcoming the global warming problem is to address it at source, namely, the emission of greenhouse gases into the atmosphere. Mr Kenneth Chen also mentioned the ban on CFCs. Apart from the global warming potential, CFCs are also ozone depleting substances and they are controlled under the Montreal Protocol. Singapore is a party to the Montreal Protocol and complied fully with her full ob1igations to phase out CFCs. The import of CFCs into Singapore has, in fact, been prohibited since 1st January 1996. Sir, on littering, Mr Shriniwas Rai had put the following question. I cannot agree more with the NMP that it takes only a few irresponsible litterbugs to undermine our living environment. In addition, litter is a health hazard, as litter that holds water is one of the main sources of mosquito breeding, and this makes littering even more objectionable. On anti-littering campaigns and public education programmes, these go back many, many years and every one, the students in school, the community at large, is aware that they should not litter. There is no excuse. Litter bins are always at hand for people to use. There is at least one in every bus stop. As for the corrective work order, Sir, we introduced it in 1992. To date, 1,975 litterbugs had served their order. Although a number of them served for a second time, many have said that they would not litter again. As for friends of the environment, we have friends of the environment, from school children and the public at large, but to take them to court, I would like to inform the House and Mr Rai, in particular, in this era of Internet and cybernet, the finding of two cyberneticists, namely, Ludwig van Bertalanffy and Norbert Weiner. They are Dutch. According to them, after we have taken all these measures and feedback including comments in the House, at the end of the day, the person must have this esteem of self-organisation, self-regulation. And that every individual must self-organise himself, self-regulate himself, rather than further regulation. Nevertheless, we are already imposing slightly higher penalties, including the number of days for CWO. Sir, the other question by Mr Rai is on housing estates with open drains. The Ministry will consider the covering up of drains only in private housing estates situated on elevated ground where the drains can have a good gradient and water will not stagnate. This is to prevent mosquito breeding. We will therefore consider the proposal to cover the drains selectively. As for the greenery, I think there are two parts. One will be looked after by the Government, and the other is by the developer.

Sir, as the Minister has said that financial measures are not important in influencing responsible environmental behaviour, I look forward to the day when he comes to this House to abolish the fines and other financial measures enacted to discourage littering. Otherwise, I thank him and the Senior Minister of State for the replies. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment No. (2), Mr Heng.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head M of the Main Estimates be reduced by $10 in respect of Code MC 1500. Sir, illegal dumping on vacant land, mainly State land in this case, is becoming a serious issue. All kinds of debris such as construction material, marine clay and, more seriously, toxic and hazardous wastes are some of the rubbish dumped illegally. Often, such illegal dumping is done in the rural areas, such as in Jalan Kayu or in Punggol. Not only do they give rise to additional land maintenance work and waste public funds in removing them, but also affect the environment and personal health of residents living in and near these areas. Given the increasing level of illegal dumping and the skill and speed of the illegal operators, I suspect that it is more an organised activity carried out by syndicates than ad hoc activities by unrelated parties. Sir, this is not surprising as there are good profits to be made in this illegal business. I was informed that the price per lorry load for illegal dumping was about $200, whereas one had to pay about $470 for a similar lorry load at the Government's dumping grounds. Perhaps the real reason is that the penalties are not heavy enough to deter this illegal activity, given the potential profits to be made in this business. When caught, usually, only the lorry driver is fined. The master-mind is seldom caught, as officers from the Ministry of the Envrionment lack the powers to detain and to interrogate the offenders. Hence, they are unable to trace the offence back to the top. Sir, I would like to suggest that the penalties for illegal dumping be increased to reflect the seriousness of this activity, especially when toxic or hazardous wastes are involved. The Ministry should also be given police assistance to help them with detention and interrogation so as to enable the officers from the Ministry to stem illegal dumping at its source.

Sir, in the early 70s and the 80s, Singapore citizens who were above 40 years of age and who received social welfare assistance were given the opportunity to get a stall. Through their hard work, we find that their standard of living has changed from non-comfortable to comfortable. I am of the opinion that perhaps this is the way we could narrow the gap between the low and the high income groups. I have mentioned several times that those who receive assistance from the Ministry of Community Development and those who are in the low income group be given a stall so that they could change and improve their standard of living. I still hope that allotting of stalls through the tender system could be modified so that those in the low income group could also have a chance of getting stalls. And I will keep on fighting for this. I hope the Minister could review the system and give consideration. Sir, may I continue with my next topic?

Yes, you may.

Sir, the Ministry of the Environment has implemented various programmes and projects to curb the spread of dengue fever. However, the Ministry's efforts seem to be less effective as the number of people infected by dengue fever from 1995 to 1997 shows no improvement. It has instead increased as follows: 2,008 cases in 1995, 3,128 cases in 1996 and 4,300 cases in 1997. Worse still, recently, the newspaper reported that within the last two and a half months, there were 1,291 cases. I think at the end of the month, there may be 6,000 cases. Based on the figures that I have quoted, it clearly shows that the general public is still not aware of the dangers of dengue fever. Perhaps they believe that it is not as bad as other sickness. In actual fact, if the fever is left untreated, it would make the victim go into shock, as manifested by a rapid and weak pulse rate and low blood pressure. Hence, death can also occur. Therefore, what is the follow-up action the Environment Ministry is planning to take in the future? I hope the Minister will enlighten us.

Sir, we have just heard that for the first two and a half months this year, there were 1,291 cases of dengue fever. And one of the worst hit areas, as reported, is the construction site of the new Tan Tock Seng Hospital. So far, 15 hospital staff are down with dengue fever. It so happens that the Minister in charge of the environment is also in charge of health, which is overseeing the hospital. Apparently, the mosquitoes did not choose where to breed and who to bite, so long as there is stagnant water, and so long as they smell human blood. Sir, my constituency also experienced a surge in dengue fever cases for the month of August last year. There was a record high of 74 cases, and together with the Marine Parade Town Council which is managing my ward, we literally combed the whole ward and found that the main source of dengue outbreak was from a HDB construction site at Serangoon Central. ENV together with HDB intensified the source reduction at the construction site and brought the situation under control. This experience led us to think that identification of the main source of mosquito breeding ground is an effective way of eradicating the hazard posed by dengue fever. Based on the recent feedback from my constituents, we feel that the construction site at the Northeast MRT line will be a potential source for mosquito breeding and if it is not effectively controlled, there will be future outbreaks of dengue cases in my ward. 4.15 pm Sir, I understand from the Marine Parade Town Council that currently the Ministry of the Environment is conducting a joint project with the Town Council with the aim of total eradication of mosquito breeding grounds, which I fully support. I believe this is a more systematic way of bringing the dengue cases under control. Basically, this project involves engaging a pest control company for routine mosquito control and checking. I was told that the initial result was very encouraging. With the above background information, I would like to ask the Minister the following questions: (1) Has the Ministry of the Environment identified the root cause of the seemingly uncontrolled increase in dengue cases? (2) With the alarming record of high dengue cases reported over the last two years, what is Ministry of the Environment's short term and long term strategies to combat this undesirable trend? And what is the Minister's prediction of the trend in 1998? Is it going to level off, going down or continue to rise?

Sir, as my parliamentary colleague, Encik Harun Ghani said, despite the Environment Ministry being extremely vigilant in keeping mosquitoes, especially the Aedes mosquitoes, under control, dengue cases still persist. In fact, it has increased. Recently, the Ministry has encouraged owners of landed properties to do away with the provision of gutters in their premises and request all Town Councils to take away all the covers of the open drains. Have these measures been found to be effective in reducing mosquito breeding grounds? Or is the Ministry contemplating introducing any new measures so that we can lessen or even eradicate this serious nuisance? How does this decision to remove all covers of the open drains reconcile with the earlier decision to cover all drains, especially in the catchment area in order to maximise the collection of water for recycling? I would also like to know the latest profile of dengue cases. Is East Coast still the most vulnerable area?

(In Mandarin): Sir, originally, dengue haemorrhagic fever which was supposed to have vanished from Singapore has reappeared. According to reports, the number of such cases is on the rise. I know that the Environment Ministry's officers are trying their best to wipe out this problem. But, of late, their efforts do not seem to be successful. Indeed, cases of dengue haemorrhagic fever are on the rise. Recently, because in the increase in cases reported in the Tan Tock Seng Hospital area, ENV officials conducted a thorough search of the area and discovered that there were about 18 sites which were breeding grounds for the Aedes mosquitoes. Construction works have been going on in this area for over a year. It is only now that they have discovered that there are so many breeding grounds for the Aedes mosquitoes. Is it not too late? According to the Annual Report of the Ministry of the Environment, in 1992, 7,052 mosquitoes breeding sites were discovered. By 1992, the number of breeding sites discovered was 25,530. On the average, more than 20,000 breeding sites were discovered. So I want to ask, since there is a clear increase in the breeding sites, apart from fumigation, what other measures are taken against this kind of situation? I feel that the Ministry of the Environment should cooperate with other Government Ministries and agencies to have an overall plan and scheme to stop the breeding of Aedes mosquitoes. For example, before PWD and URA approve the permits for construction work to commence, the contractors concerned must first engage vector control agencies approved by the Ministry of the Environment to regularly inspect the construction sites to prevent mosquito breeding. Together with URA and the Singapore Institute of Architects (SIA), the Ministry of the Environment can stipulate the minimum gradient of the drains so that water will not accumulate and remain stagnant to facilitate the breeding of mosquitoes therein. Likewise, there should also be stipulations that no gutters should be constructed for the houses in new development projects.

I shall take the last set of cuts first on vector control. Sir, the problem of dengue fever is a major concern to my Ministry. As pointed out by Mr Harun Ghani, the trend has been quite a frightening one. The number of people down with dengue increased from 2,000 in 1995 to over 4,000 last year, a doubling in two years. Sir, what is the cause of this? Firstly, dengue arises only when we have Aedes mosquitoes. When the mosquito population increases, the risk of dengue also increases. One problem is that over the years the Aedes mosquito has adapted very, very well to our urban setting. In the past, the Aedes mosquitoes tended to breed mainly indoors in stagnant, very clean water. But now the Aedes mosquitoes have also moved outdoors and also they are able to breed in water that is less than clean. So the number of breeding sites available to the mosquito has now increased, which is why this is a battle that cannot be fought by the Ministry of the Environment alone. This is a battle that must involve every Singaporean, because our studies have shown that in a neighbourhood, all you need is, out of 100 homes, two homes which breed Aedes mosquitoes, and there will be a dengue outbreak risk there. 98 families who are very, very vigilant but two families are very complacent, and you will get dengue in the neighbourhood, which is why the cooperation of the general public is important. That is why the public education programme must continue to be the linchpin. It is not possible for the Ministry of the Environment to go and inspect each and every home in Singapore. We do not have the people. This is not a police state. Every family must be responsible for inspecting its own premises. Fines are not really the solution. We have increased the fines last year to $150. But that is really not a solution. To fine a family is after the fact. I would rather that they have no mosquitoes. The other source of mosquito breeding is the construction sites. Here I must say the trend has been a good one because of the heavy penalties being imposed against the construction companies. If they are caught breeding, the first time we fine them, the second time we will have a heavier fine, and the third time we will ask them to shut down. A stop-work order is issued until they clear up the entire site. It may be two or three days. The cost to them runs into tens, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. Because of that, most construction companies now have engaged pest control companies to help them because they realise that looking after mosquitoes is not really their forte. So many of them have their own pest control companies. This brings me to my other point that we are now introducing a programme to better train the pest control companies on, firstly, looking for mosquito breeding sites and, secondly, how to advise the construction companies on eradicating and preventing mosquito breeding sites. I believe that with this effort, we should see further improvement in eradicating mosquito breeding in construction sites. Mr Kenneth Chen asked about the roof gutters. There is really no need for us to ban roof gutters. For old roof gutters, we have asked that they either paint them with insecticide paint or they find some other ways of making sure that the water does not stagnate in the old gutters or, worse comes to the worse, remove the gutters. But what we would like the architects to do is to see whether they can come out with a better roof gutter design which will prevent stagnation of water over time. If they can do that, they would have contributed a great deal to our fight against dengue fever. How does the measure to remove drain covers reconcile with the earlier measure, which is to ask that drains be covered up? Sir, we have asked for the drains to be covered up earlier on in order to prevent littering of the drains. But what we have found is that the covered drains actually lend themselves even better to mosquito breeding. Between the two problems, it is more important that we tackle the mosquito problem. Therefore, we have asked for the drain covers to be removed. We have come out with other measures which should help us prevent the littering problem from getting out of hand and preventing the litter from getting into our water reservoirs, etc. Let me move on to the earlier cuts. Mr Heng Chiang Meng talked about illegal dumping. Yes, I agree with him. It is a big problem. It is a problem we are very concerned with and which is why we have increased the penalties from $1,000 previously to $10,000, or a jail term of up to 12 months. For repeat offenders, the previous penalty was $2,000. We have now increased it to $20,000, and a mandatory jail term of between one and 12 months. I would like to inform Mr Heng Chiang Meng that we are still not satisfied that the penalties are adequate, and we will be taking steps later this year to raise the fines further and to make it mandatory for the vehicles used in the illegal dumping activity to be forfeited. Mr Harun Ghani has asked about hawkers. Sir, he talks about the 60s and 70s, I agree with him. In the 60s and 70s, with rampant unemployment, it was very difficult for people to get a job and therefore the hardship cases had to be helped somehow. Some of them were lucky enough to get hawker stalls. But the situation today has totally changed. In our labour short situation, anyone who wants a job can easily get one. Those who think they can cook but do not have the capital to start their own business, or who are unable to join in the tender process, I would suggest that they get a job as a cook, and maybe work as a cook in one of the hawker stalls and establish their reputation. Once they have done that, they can go and join in the tender process and get themselves a stall. We have to make sure that our limited number of hawker stalls is used efficiently. Our experience has been that this is best accomplished through the market mechanism. They tender for it. They must make sure that it is being efficiently used from morning to night.

A clarification from the Minister, Sir. I mentioned in my speech that the number of cases of mosquito breeding has shot up from over 7,000 cases in 1992 to 25,000, and subsequently an average of 20,000 cases. That is the number of mosquito breeding cases discovered. It was reported in the Annual Report of the Ministry of the Environment. I would like to know specifically what has the Ministry done, after discovering that mosquito breeding cases were going up. Secondly, I would like to know whether the Ministry is considering cooperating with other Government agencies, in terms of certain policy coordination within the Ministry and departments, to make sure that construction sites and other places where there is a likelihood of mosquito breeding would be prevented 4.30 pm

Sir, a large part of the increase was in the private households which has been well publicised, and which is why we have been focusing very much also on private households. And, yes, there is a lot of outdoor breeding in the private households - roof gutters, pots and pans left outside. Nowadays, just a small little puddle of water can lead to breeding. Are we cooperating with the other Ministries? Sir, whenever a construction site is approved, we inform them very clearly about their responsibility and, in fact, we have been ensuring that they have a qualified pest control company under their employment. And that is why our experience with the construction sites is that the situation has improved in the last one year.

Sir, I thank the Minister for his replies and beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Amendment No. (3), Mr Heng.

Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head M of the Main Estimates be reduced by $10 in respect of Code MF 1500. Sir, the clean up of the six rivers and canals in and around Singapore and Kallang River basin, namely, Singapore River, Kallang River, Geylang River, Whampoa River, Pelton Canal and Rochor Canal, took about 10 years, from 1977 to 1987. It removes the major sources of pollution which include farm wastes, sewage, illegal disposal of waste water from street hawkers and vegetable wholesalers and industries. Sir, today, the rivers are biologically clean and alive. With the beautified banks and surrounding areas, these water bodies provide a source of visual, recreation and leisure activities for many Singaporeans, especially since these rivers are located downtown in the midst of built-up areas. Yet, Sir, 10 years of planning and hard work could easily be destroyed by only a few months, or even a few weeks, of neglect. Pollution of the rivers is never ending. The sources of river pollution are extremely widespread. River pollution can come from any land area which drains into the rivers, regardless of how far that land area may be from the rivers. Sir, today, the Ministry of the Environment installs vertical gratings at selected outlet drains and float booms at strategic locations in the rivers and canals to protect the aesthetics of the water bodies. But no government can ever hope to stop or even minimise pollution of rivers without the cooperation and assistance of the community. It is in this regard that I would like to congratulate the Ministry for agreeing to a suggestion of my GPC for the establishment of a specialised community group for monitoring, restoring and protecting the aesthetics of these water bodies. Currently, this proposal is being discussed with the Ministry as a concept paper. But, Sir, I do hope that when the time comes to implement this idea, the Ministry, together with private sponsorship, will provide adequate funding to ensure its success. More importantly, I hope that the members of the community, those that are interested, will come forward to volunteer for this very exciting project.

Sir, spending just one evening in a discotheque can leave a young person with a severe hearing impairment and very definite threat of deafness. Dr John Hazell, head of medical research at the Royal National Institute for the Deaf, said that nearly all his patients with problems caused by clubbing had done it for just one night. Up to 80% of night-club patrons would end up with some kind of hearing damage. In Germany, researchers found that up to 25% of young people had impaired hearing from listening to loud music and about 10% of the nation's 18-year-olds suffered such severe damage that it would handicap them in normal conversation. Sir, may I ask the Minister for the Environment if we have any specifications and permissible safety limits of sound level for the discotheques in Singapore? And more importantly, can we protect the public, especially the young, from this type of deafness through public education?

(In Mandarin): Sir, haze is a problem which the people are very concerned about. Because of the big forest fire in Indonesia, there was a heavy haze in Singapore last year, resulting in the pollution of our air, and the health of our people was affected. The Ministry of the Environment took a serious view of the matter. It not only helped the Indonesian government to control the forest fire to reduce the effect of the haze, but also explored the possible causes of air pollution in Singapore. In the process, it was discovered that the giant joss-sticks and candles burnt during the Seventh Moon festival and at religious ceremonies of the temples was also one of the causes of air pollution. For this reason, the Government is regulating the burning of giant joss-sticks and candles, with effect from 1st March this year. The regulation clearly provides that the giant joss-sticks to be burnt shall not be longer than 2 metres, and not more than two sets, that is 6 sticks, of these joss-sticks shall be burnt at any one time. The new regulation which takes effect from 1st March, provides that anyone who violates the regulation may be fined up to $2,000. In order to avoid any misunderstanding arising from the enforcement of this new ruling, I would like to suggest: Firstly, we should explain such measures to the people through an education campaign. The Ministry of the Environment should coordinate with the grassroots organisations and relevant religious bodies to invite the organisers of the Seventh Moon festival to a talk and explain the new rules to them, so that they could understand the need for such regulations. I think it is better to get them to abide by the law through education rather than by way of fines. Secondly, we should prohibit the import of such giant joss sticks. Most of these are imported from other countries. Under the new regulations, only those who burn the joss-sticks will be fined but not those who sell them. Sir, Singapore is a free entrepot. If such joss-sticks are imported for re-export to other countries, then it is all right. But, we should ban traders from importing such joss sticks for use in Singapore. Once the supply of these over-sized joss-sticks is banned at source, it will not be necessary for the Ministry of the Environment officials to check on the illegal burning of over-sized joss-sticks, and the precious resources can be better used for other purposes. Thirdly, we should be more liberal in implementing such new measures. Burning joss sticks is part of the religious rites among the Chinese community in Singapore. We should allow the people more time to understand these new measures. We should understand the Seventh Moon festival is part of the culture of the Chinese people in Singapore, and burning of joss sticks is a religious rite practised at such festivals. So, in order to ensure that people do not break the law, we hope the Government should explain to the people first. We must not forget that these organisers of the Seventh Moon festivals are also contributing to our charitable organisations. They have contributed quite a lot to our charitable organisations. So they must first understand what the benefits of these new measures are, and then I believe all the organisers and devotees would do their best to comply with the regulations laid down by the Ministry of the Environment. So I hope that during this first year of implementation of this new regulation, we could be more liberal in our enforcement actions.

Sir, I would like to talk about the topic of benzene in petrol. On more than one occasion, readers of The Straits Times wrote in the Forum page about the benzene level in automotive gasoline (petrol, in short). Sir, benzene is classified as a carcinogen and it can cause blood disorder cancer, called leukemia, if there is prolonged contact of about 20 parts per million. Regarding the benzene level in the petrol, to my understanding, it is not a mandatory control item. However, the oil companies and the Ministry of the Environment agreed among themselves not to have it excessively dosed in petrol. However, due to competition, oil companies might use higher research octane number, in short RON, to attract customers. One of the ways to boost the octane grading of petrol is to increase the level of benzene component in the brand of petrol. Sir, every car is designed to consume a certain grade of petrol. The RON of petrol which is higher than what the car is designed for, normally it is about 95 RON, has no advantage in performance of a properly maintained car. The rise of the RON in petrol at the expense of more benzene component, which is harmful to human health, is really unnecessary. The people whose health could be affected are the petroleum workers, petrol truck drivers, petrol station attendants and the motor mechanics who frequently use petrol as a cleaning agent for certain sensitive engine components. Sir, I would like to ask, firstly, whether the Minister will consider the control of benzene in automotive gasoline. Secondly, would he consider initiating a consumer education programme on research octane number (RON), so that the higher than necessary RON product promotion gimmicks at the expense of having more benzene component in the fuel could be discouraged? Thirdly, would the Minister consider setting an upper limit of RON for all newly registered cars and ban petrol that exceeds the limit at the expense of the limit for benzene?

First, let me respond to Mr Heng. Sir, indeed, I would like to thank Mr Heng and his GPC members for coming out with a concept paper. We agree with him that keeping the rivers clean should also be a national effort involving as many people as possible, and I look forward to the implementation of the scheme in due course. On deafness from discotheques raised by Dr Lily Neo, there is no restriction at the moment on the volume of music in discotheques. Although I agree with the Member that prolonged exposure to very loud noise may cause noise induced deafness, unfortunately, no other country has implemented similar noise control measures. I will ask my Ministry to take a further look into this subject and do a more thorough study on the measures that have been adopted by other countries in the control of noise. Sir, in terms of publicly educating our youngsters, yes, we will do that and we will get the non-Government organisations that are interested to join us in this effort. Mr Ang Mong Seng spoke on the burning of giant joss sticks. Sir, I would like to inform Mr Ang that since October last year, we have been in active discussion with the key parties involved in the burning of giant joss sticks. We have been discussing with the merchants involved but, more importantly, we have also been discussing with the religious bodies - the Singapore Taoist Association and the Singapore Buddhist Association. And I am glad to say that both the Taoist Association and the Buddhist Association have supported the move by the Government. They have informed us that giant joss stick is not part of their tradition and that a smaller joss stick would do equally well, in terms of conveying their prayers to the gods. As such, we have decided to proceed with the ban on the burning of giant joss sticks. We have actually been a little bit more flexible because the original proposal which we discussed with the bodies was to have much smaller joss sticks. But in response to their appeals, we have agreed to allow them to have a 2-metre joss stick and a 75 mm diameter. So in actual fact, we have acceded to the requests of the relevant people. There is no need to do a soft introduction this year. This is especially so since the likelihood of the haze hitting us will be quite high this year. 4.45 pm He has also asked us to perhaps ban the trade in re-export of giant joss sticks to other countries. Sir, we should not interfere in the general trade of joss sticks or any other matter. There is a market for that. It is legal in other countries. Let our traders continue with their trading but they should know that in Singapore, we do not allow such giant joss-stick to be burned. On benzene in automotive fuel, Sir, I would like to inform Prof. Low that there is a maximum limit on the amount of benzene in fuel, and that is 5% by volume. We have a regulation. And this 5% limit is the same as that adopted by the EU countries, Australia, Japan, Hong Kong, and South Korea. My Ministry conducts regular tests on petrol to see what is the level of benzene because, as he has pointed out, benzene is a carcinogenic item and I am glad to say that today, there have been no cases of benzene content exceeding the 5% limit. He asked about the raising of the octane rating and that he fears that this is done through additional benzene content. Sir, it is true that benzene can help to increase the octane rating but there is an alternative, and that is by using methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE). And this is the route being taken by the oil companies for raising the octane rating of their fuel. I am glad to say that MTBE has also been shown to be a non-carcinogenic item and therefore it does not pose any threat to public health. He asked us to initiate education to inform Singaporeans that they really do not need such a high octane rating. Sir, since the benzene content does not pose a threat to public health, we should leave it to market forces as to whether we should opt for a higher octane rating or a lower octane rating.

Sir, I thank the Minister for his reply and beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $361,798,920 for Head M ordered to stand part of the Main Estimates. The sum of $1,012,148,200 for Head M ordered to stand part of the Development Estimates. Head S -

Head S - Ministry of Manpower. Mdm Foo.

Sir, I beg to move, That the total sum to be allocated for Head S of the Main Estimates be reduced by $100. Sir, I have attended a regional conference recently. One clear disappointment among the delegates was that the unions had not been involved in policy and decision-making in the efforts to handle the serious economic crisis in the region. It appeared that the trade union movement had no role in the economic crisis. It was only lately that some governments invited the trade unions to be involved in IMF discussions. Such a situation exists because in those countries, there is no tripartite mechanism which enables the viewpoints of the labour movement to be an important input in all negotiations. The lack of this is detrimental to industrial peace. For example, when Korea amended the Employment Act, workers went on strike because of a lack of a well-established tripartite relationship.

4.50 pm It is fortunate for Singapore that we have a strong tripartite working relationship. However, we must not take this relationship for granted but must instead, during this time, take the opportunity to strengthen it. I would therefore like to call upon the Minister to look into how we could invoke existing mechanisms or, if need be, set up new channels for discussions among the three parties on how to prepare ourselves and to respond to the challenges that are fast taking place. I am pleased to note that there is already a Retrenchment Committee. I hope that the Committee would take a proactive approach by looking into measures such as job redesigning, identifying new jobs and job replacement for retrenched workers and matching retrenched workers with available training schemes. NTUC has set up a blueprint called NTUC 21. Some of its key mission objectives are employability, competitiveness of companies, promoting productivity and strengthening tripartite partnership for better industrial relations. SNEF also has SNEF 21 which will also benefit both employers and workers. I call upon the Ministry of Manpower to incorporate the aspirations of both unions and employers in the formulation of its mission. Sir, the formation of the Ministry of Manpower is timely. With keen international competition, our workforce has to be globally competitive if we want to retain our competitiveness. It is important that we have one Ministry to coordinate and develop an integrated and comprehensive strategy for the planning, development and management of human resources. Presently, there are several agencies like NTUC, PSB, EDB and ITE which are involved in training. With the establishment of MOM, the roles of these agencies would have to be clarified. I would like to suggest that MOM set up a tripartite committee on training to look into training and overall manpower planning and human resource development in Singapore. Sir, the formation of MOM has generated a lot of interest and expectations. Many would like to know what key initiatives MOM will be working on once it is launched. One key concern is training for the existing workforce. I call upon MOM to support programmes, such as Skills Redevelopment Programme, Back-to-Work Programme and Skills Certification Programme, and to develop these programmes into national schemes to cover all workers. Sir, there is another area of training that MOM should look into. This is the building up of skills in areas of human resource management and industrial relations. Human resource management training is important for helping companies manage their human resource. And industrial relations training will enable officers who are involved in industrial relations to understand the job better and thus be more effective. The target of such training will be MOM staff who handle industrial relations, trade union staff, employers and management staff. This will complement training currently provided by NTUC and the Singapore Institute of Labour Studies. Sir, I now turn to the issue of foreign talent. I would like to ask the Minister to elaborate on the kind of schemes that will be put in place to attract foreign talent and how this fits into our overall manpower planning. There is no dispute at all that to remain competitive, we need talents from outside to enhance the capabilities of our own workforce. This is inevitable given our small size and manpower constraints. But at the same time, we must not overlook Singaporeans' concerns on the impact that an influx of foreign talents would have on their jobs and standard of living. To get rid of such fears, the message transmitted must be clear: that every Singaporean will continue to be given full opportunities to develop their potential. Could the Minister ensure that sufficient safeguards are put in place to prevent employers from abusing this scheme by bringing in talents from outside even when there are Singaporeans to fill the jobs? We must also ensure that the transfer of skills and competence from foreigners to Singaporeans takes place so as to avoid continued and over-dependence on foreign labour. Once these workers are in our workforce, we must help them adjust and adapt to our work environment and society. We ought to have in place programmes that will cater to their social and recreational needs and help them to understand Singapore society better. We could use the CDCs, CCs and other grassroots organisations and even NTUC to provide the network of support and assistance needed to run such programmes. All these may help the foreign talent become integrated, if not, assimilated into our society because it is important to prevent the formation of unhealthy enclaves.

Sir, come 1st April, the Labour Ministry will become MOM to conceive quite a formidable task to deliver, and that is no joke. As stipulated in the mission statement, Sir, the Ministry of Manpower will be entrusted with the role of developing a globally competitive workforce for our Singapore. This will be done through proper manpower planning and development and this will also be done with the support of selected international talent. A question that comes to mind is how much different will this new Ministry be from the former Ministry of Labour? The budget shows a 13.8% increase in manpower and 14.5% increase in expenditure. What does the Ministry see as its major challenges? Will the Ministry of Manpower set training and upgrading of the local workforce as its main priority? In trying to augment local manpower with international talent, does the Ministry see conflicts of interests? And how does the Ministry intend to balance the needs and interests of the local workforce and foreign talent? The Ministry of Manpower has also identified the need to enhance Singapore's international image and interest in the field of labour. This is also an area which is of interest to the NTUC. How does the Ministry of Manpower see the two, that is, the Ministry and NTUC, collaborating in this field? Would MOM consider working with Singapore International Foundation (SIF) and other related agencies which leave visitor programmes to facilitate their visitors to observe and understand the state of industrial affairs here? Finally, Sir, one important area that could enhance Singapore's image is the way Singaporeans treat their foreign workers and talents. Would the Ministry of Manpower consider organising programmes that would help Singaporeans to understand why we need foreign workers and talents and also to assist foreign workers in urgent need of help and those treated badly by irresponsible Singaporeans? 5.00 pm

Sir, I am not persuaded by the Ministry of Manpower terminology. While I certainly agree that we have to develop a globally competitive knowledge-based workforce and hence the need for an overarching strategy, I find the term "Manpower Ministry" a little outdated. I am not even thinking of gender neutrality. In the next millennium, surely brain power and portable skills are going to be more important in the global market challenge. Our people must be well educated and well trained. Those who reach a certain age group should even be retrained. Those who are well-qualified or skilled will be able to find a market for their skills, even across borders. And our regionalisation effort, which is an important facet of our necessary capital export strategy in Singapore, will have to integrate with our overall human resource development to enable Singaporeans to go world-wide, to invest and to work, and to build a second wing for our economy. Developing our human resource and networking the region or the world for the right kind of investment to build our second wing point to the right way to go for our future. In a world where industries or technologies can get obsolete very fast, emphasising portability of skills, training and transferability of skills and the learning culture are crucial and defining for our success. Hence, I find the Ministry of Manpower a bit of a misnomer. Perhaps we have even gone a step backward. At least labour is a factor input in macro-economic terms. When we are trying so hard to get our females to participate in the economy and join back the labour force, "Manpower" is a little inadequate to be attractive. I am concerned about this terminology as I hope we do not get into the danger of micro managing sectoral labour markets by specific manpower policies which, being managed by the bureaucracy, may be slow to react to the market place. The thrust of today's labour market policies is towards less rigidities, facilitating mobility of skills and flexibility in wages, in order to be competitive. I hope we should be looking for foreign talents and skills only to supplement what we lack, after we have done all our best to train, cross-train and to retrain our people, and not to plan to fill up the foreign manpower gap even when we have not done all these. It is foreign talents and skills we want, not foreign manpower per se. I suggest it is not too late to change the name of the Ministry to the Ministry of Human Resource Development, to prepare ourselves for the challenge of the 21st century market place. Where knowledge and skill intensity in product manufacturing and services will be the critical factors in competitiveness, we should always remind ourselves that our own human resource must be valued, and the utmost be done for its development so that our workers will be employable, with training to upgrade their skills and knowledge. We always say that human resource is all we have, knowing that it can achieve wonders with training. We never say manpower is all we have, knowing full well it is not very much. I hope the Minister will not consider I am nit-picking on a name, but a name is everything.

Sir, I would like to thank Mr Chay for making a pitch for womanpower. But if there is any comfort at all, the new acronym for the Ministry of Manpower is MOM, and mum is a woman! And we were told also that mum knows best because she has delivered all these years of hard labour. So in that sense, I think let us not quibble. Sir, I am going to focus on three areas. First, is the immediate impact of the economic downturn on women. In the last few weeks, we debated on the impact of the economic crisis on workers and the need for retraining of workers. There is a gender blindness in the discussions, and I would like to ask the Minister if there is a disproportionately high tendency towards retrenchment of women workers, for example, and whether women workers have any great difficulties in finding jobs after their retrenchment. Women who are sole breadwinners feel the immediate impact of the financial crisis. Does the Minister have figures on this situation and help us assess the severity of the impact? What sort of employment related strategies is MOM prepared to extend to such families? My second area is on long-term strategic planning for women workers. It appears that more men than women workers use the Skills Development Fund. Could the Minister explain why this is so, and whether there is any strategic planning from the Ministry to encourage women to use this fund for upgrading and, if so, in what sectors? The 1994 Department of Statistics Report showed that 84% of dual career wives were under 45 years old. The trend towards younger women and paid employment will persist. We are less sure, however, that they will stay in employment after 45. I would like to reinforce Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon's call for focused effort on the Back-to-Work programme. The Ministry has done a good job in the last few years. I hope that it will continue with this effort. We have to recognise that young women today desire both work and family. The notion of role contradiction is no longer applicable. The problem is one of role overload. They work long hours at work and they also work long hours at home, sometimes with little help from husbands who also work late in the office. We need to find new solutions if we want to keep all in employment. Will the Minister consider setting up a special task force consisting of multi-disciplinary experts - economists, sociologists, family therapists, psychologists and so forth - to examine nationally the impact of dual career families on family cohesion and identify appropriate human resource strategies to tackle the problems? My third area is work integration of vulnerable groups. Community agencies which are taking care of mentally disadvantaged and disabled young specifically request if the Ministry could give some attention to the issue of work integration of these groups. They would like to know in the Ministry's manpower planning for the next millennium if it could identify the kind of skills which are suitable for these disadvantaged groups. Bizlink, for the information of Members of this House, is a voluntary organisation supported by MCD. It has been set up to service the disabled by matching their skills and employment needs, but they lack the information on skills requirement for specific job types. So they cannot really provide the appropriate training to the clients. Can MOM, MCD and VWOs combine efforts to identify and enhance employment opportunities for the disadvantaged? This will help VWOs to better plan their work rehabilitation programmes and equip clients with suitable skills to be employable in the community. The argument is that these groups have much to gain by participating directly in community, instead of being isolated in sheltered employment centres. For the society, this is an additional human resource anyhow.

Sir, foreign talents have contributed to the leadership and manpower that have developed Singapore. Our policy to open Singapore to foreign talents is a correct one. Their contributions will continue to be important. However, we are not without local talents, but our people fear being overlooked or ignored. They want to be considered for opportunities that arise. Singaporeans want to be assured that when everything is equal or near equal, they will be given preference. We should use our own talents first and then turn to foreign talents to augment the pie. This must be so. Otherwise, our people will feel disenfranchised and being a citizen of a country must mean something. Sir, employers must not view the foreign talent policy as a licence to hire foreign talents when local talents are available to do the job. This should be made clear to employers, especially our Government Ministries, departments, statutory boards and Government-linked companies. We must not make our people feel second class. If our people feel this way, we will find our own talents moving overseas in search of opportunities denied to them in their own country. This will indeed be a sad day for Singapore. Foreign talent to augment our talents in Singapore is an important policy. But for the policy to work, we must make sure that Singaporeans accept that as important. I think if we can assure Singaporeans that their interests are taken care of, that they will not be denied opportunities, then the support will be forthcoming. Sir, this assurance is extremely important. Let me now move on to another point. I want to add that talent does not just appear in a person. The potential of our people must be nurtured and helped to surface. On this point, I must give credit to the Government which recognises this desire of our people for opportunities to educate themselves. This is most evident in the funds allocated for education. In spite of the difficult time, the Government has not only not cut the allocation for education but has increased it by some 30% over last year's budget. A substantial part of it will fund our tertiary educational institutions, especially our universities. The expenditure for university education will increase further when the Singapore Management University is up and running in the year 2000. The Government is thus giving our citizens more opportunities to get not just a tertiary education but a good one. This foresight is highly commended. NTUC has also the foresight to see the importance of Singaporeans to upgrade themselves, their skills and knowledge to keep themselves relevant to the changing times. NTUC has given flesh to the ideas by instituting several programmes. I call upon Singaporeans to take the many opportunities that are available to them to upgrade themselves. If we do, we will reduce the chances of opportunities passing us by.

Sir, since the Prime Minister first spoke on the subject of attracting foreign talent at last year's National Day Rally, the issue of foreign talent has become topical, prompting comments from many Singaporeans. Foreigners brought in under the talent scheme have now become a conspicuous presence in Singapore. We meet them everywhere. With their greater presence, the subject has increasingly and perhaps inevitably become a gut issue. Voices of concern were already heard from the beginning when the Prime Minister called for a national effort to draw and embrace talent from abroad. There were questions about the implications of such a policy. Some were worried that more foreigners meant more intense competition for limited resources, be it jobs, schools, recreational facilities, or simply space. Others saw social problems that might arise as a result of an in-rush of foreign influence or a clash of cultural values. As NTUC chief and Minister without Portfolio, Mr Lim Boon Heng, said last October, our workers were a little bit cheesed off by the Government's move to bring in more foreign talent. He had formed this impression after a dialogue session with some 200 union leaders. That initial "little bit cheesed off" feeling seems to have rubbed off on more and more Singaporeans, particularly in the light of the current regional crisis. I talked to some people about foreign talent and the gut reaction is quite revealing. They question the perceived favourable treatment of foreigners over locals. They ask: why is JTC subsidising foreign talent by renting out flats to them at below market rates? Why is the Government still giving companies tax incentives to defray the costs of bringing in more foreigners at a time when the job security of Singaporeans is uncertain, and indeed a number of our citizens have actually been retrenched? Some even ask: why is the Government cheapening our citizenship by making it so easily available to foreigners working here? Why do foreigners who have acquired our citizenship and thus enjoy privileges not have to perform national service, or at least a modified form of national service or any reservist service? These questions perhaps betray an acute and deep sense of frustration. I do not think that such frustrations suggest that Singaporeans are becoming xenophobic. We have always been an open and cosmopolitan society which welcomes foreigners and immigrants. We are, after all, a very young country built by immigrants. I believe that the disgruntlement lies more with the manner in which the question of foreign talent has been handled. I will outline two factors which I believe contribute to that disgruntlement. First, a number of Singaporeans are puzzled over the definition of "foreign talent" itself. Few would object to bringing in what the Prime Minister described as the best and brightest to Singapore in the same way that the top brains are attracted to Silicon Valley. But the foreign talent that our citizens mingle with in the HDB heartlands or in their work places are very much like the people who live next door. They could be nurses, train operators, teachers, counter staff and so on. For the Singaporean who holds a similar job, it is incomprehensible why a foreigner doing the same job is labelled a talent and accorded privileges which one who is born and bred here does not enjoy. 5.15 pm Secondly, there is a sense that the foreigner who is termed "talented" takes maximum advantage of Singapore without the intention of making Singapore his or her home. The male foreign talent does not do national service nor reservist training. Our younger people feel that this gives an unfair advantage to the foreign talent in the work place. A foreigner starts work younger and employers prefer employees who have no disruptions. There is also a feeling that a number of young foreign talents simply use Singapore as a springboard to take advantage of the system, get an education, live in cheap JTC rental flats, acquire skills and then leave for what they perceive to be greener pastures. That is why a number of our citizens appear to resent what they perceive to be the Government's disregard for the feelings of Singaporeans in the all-out effort to lay the red carpet for foreigners. It is now not uncommon to hear Singaporeans speak of emigration, and then returning as foreign talent to feel more welcome here. I think it will be in the longer term interest of Singapore for the Government to ensure that it addresses these concerns. We have to do something to ensure that Singaporeans, in particular younger Singaporeans, do not feel disadvantaged vis-a-vis foreign talent. The policy of attracting foreign talent is a sound one. Without it, our future must be that much less bright. I therefore speak as a strong supporter of the policy. But even sound policies have to be sold on the ground. If the policy creates unease among younger Singaporeans, then that is a cause for legitimate concern. We cannot take younger Singaporeans for granted. They are, like the foreign talent, also mobile. We have to consider their views, perhaps relook at our definition of foreign talent and bear in mind that Singaporeans will be evaluating the quality of the foreigners and compare them with the privileges that are accorded. This is not a problem that will simply go away when the economy recovers and strong growth returns. Nation building is not merely about keeping the country ahead of global competition or achieving higher and higher per capita income. It is also a question about making sure that Singaporeans feel for Singapore with their hearts. The foreign talent question is a gut issue that concerns hearts and minds and the Government has to address the hearts and minds so that our younger Singaporeans will treat Singapore as a home, and not as a hotel.

Sir, the mission of the Ministry of Manpower was touched on in great detail by speakers preceding me, including Mrs Yu-Foo and Mr Zainul Abidin. Its primary goal must be to produce the manpower needed for Singapore in the 21st century. To achieve its goal, I believe it is necessary for the Ministry of Manpower to have a strong and effective manpower planning capability or, in deference to my colleague, Mr Chay Wai Chuen, human resource planning capability. So its goal must be to identify the manpower needs of the country in the 21st century. All of us would love to have accurate and reliable forecast to work with, for instance, how many engineers, how many doctors, how many workers and what discipline and so on. But it is also unrealistic to have perfect 20/20 vision when it comes to forecasting the future. Sir, manpower planning has always been a very sensitive topic. For instance, MOE uses its own manpower forecast to identify allocation of resources with the various institutes of higher learning, which in turn determines how many students will be enrolled each year, in what discipline, and in what classes. Since education is very important to our future, manpower planning then directly influences the future of all young Singaporeans. To make my point, let me use an illustration. We do not have to go too far back to come up with examples of forecasting which cause great emotional stress to students and parents. I am referring to the restriction imposed on the number of doctors trained each year in Singapore. The Government directly controls the number of doctors trained each year. This number is derived from a very logical doctor/patient model. Mr Yeo Cheow Tong, then Minister for Health in 1993, announced a set of policies restricting the medical student enrolment every year that Singaporeans should have. It does not just apply to NUS but also as a standard for overseas universities. We can understand that enrolment in NUS is funded by the Government, but in the enrolment overseas, those students are funded by the parents. On top of that, in fact, the restriction excludes some very famous and prominent medical schools. All this is done in the name of manpower planning. Many aspiring doctors were denied the opportunity to pursue, some of them, life-long dreams to become a doctor, to serve their fellow human beings. Several have approached me during my meet-the-people sessions in the past regarding their appeal to be given exemption, not just to get into NUS but to continue their enrolment with overseas universities, but to no avail. As a Government policy, I still support this restriction, which was logical and rational at that point of time. But only a few years later, the Ministry of Health started to hire overseas doctors to meet its own shortages. Only a few days ago, Mr Yeo Cheow Tong gave a reply to Parliament during the debate on his Ministry justifying the hiring of foreign doctors based on the shortages. It seems to me that the restriction imposed by MOH now does not make very good common sense. Worse, the suffering and emotional stress of all those who were denied a career in medicine have been all for nought. This sudden reversal of the forecast reflects poorly on the accuracy and points to the pitfalls of implementing Government policies based on poor forecasting. It seems to me that manpower forecasters always err on the safe side. In fact, there is very little or no penalty for under-estimating. But over-estimating would lead to wasteful Government spending and potential social problems as a result of unemployed graduates, etc. So, it seems to me intuitively that it will be very difficult to obtain accurate manpower forecast. On the other hand, the consequences of a poor one are also highly undesirable. Yet, with the establishment of the Ministry of Manpower, this is exactly what will be expected of it. Whatever forecast it produces, there will be even greater faith in using this information. After all, they are the full-time experts in this area. So I would like to ask the Minister to enlighten this House, how he would be addressing this issue and how he would ensure that MOM will be able to discharge its responsibilities when it comes to manpower planning for the 21st century.

First, I would like to thank the hon. Members who have spoken on the various topics concerning the Ministry of Manpower and other manpower-related issues. In particular, I wish to thank Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon, Member for Bukit Timah, who welcomed and supported the formation of the Ministry of Manpower. Mrs Yu-Foo and Mr Zainul would like to know what are the key initiatives of the Ministry of Manpower after April 1998, because the Ministry will start functioning on 1st April 1998. The newly established Ministry of Manpower aims to develop a world class workforce to spearhead Singapore's growth into the 21st century. It will undertake manpower planning, development and carry out the regulatory roles in meeting our national manpower needs. The Ministry's new role will include manpower planning to balance the demand and supply of manpower at all levels of the economy, meaning manpower requirements from unskilled, semi-skilled to skilled and talented workers. It will develop a framework and programme for continuing education and training for workers in order to build up a capable and knowledge-based workforce. We will also develop strategies to attract foreign talents to supplement local talents. Sir, the existing roles of the Ministry of Labour, such as regulating and managing the admission of foreign workers, ensuring a workplace environment conducive to productivity and efficiency, and ensuring continuous harmonious labour relations will be enhanced to reinforce the Ministry's overall mission. The Ministry of Manpower will formulate national manpower policy in consultation with principal economic agencies of the Government and also the National Trades Union Congress and the Singapore National Employers' Federation. We will certainly take note of the efforts already put in by the National Trades Union Congress and the Singapore National Employers' Federation to chart a vision for the future. We will consider the ideas, suggestions and the concerns that they have already drawn up in their NTUC 21 and SNEF 21 in drawing up our own manpower policy. While the Ministry of Manpower undertakes manpower planning and capability development at the national level, the current statutory boards that are already doing manpower training and manpower development work will be able to continue this work. For instance, the Productivity and Standards Board, ITE and EDB will continue to administer their respective manpower training programmes. But it will be done within the overall framework of a national manpower policy. MOM will focus on strengthening existing institutions and training networks, coordinate and streamline manpower management functions and develop a new framework and programme to achieve our mission of developing a world class workforce. Mrs Yu-Foo has also lent her support to the allocation of more funds to the Ministry of Manpower so that it can give more support to the various skills upgrading programmes, and I thank her for this support. Mr Zainul has asked whether the budget, as it stands in the Budget book, reflects the financial support that the Government is giving to the new Ministry of Manpower in order to allow it to carry out its duties. I would like to point out that the budget estimates for the Ministry of Manpower, as reflected in the current Budget book, are actually the old budget for the Ministry of Labour to perform the current functions of the Ministry of Labour. This was because the budget was finalised prior to the recent decision to establish a Ministry of Manpower. Obviously, in order for the Ministry of Manpower to carry out the enlarged functions, with a much bigger responsibility, we will require additional funding. This is not reflected in the present budget. To determine the overall budget needs of the Ministry of Manpower, we will engage various manpower-related agencies such as the Ministry of Trade and Industry, EDB, PSB and the Ministry of Education in a joint planning exercise to determine the full scope of work, including the overall budget requirements for both 1998 and 1999. We will put up a supplementary budget to the Ministry of Finance. In the meantime, the Ministry of Manpower, after 1st April this year, will proceed to carry out its new functions and programmes with the MOL budget as well as the existing programme budgets of the various agencies and statutory boards. Sir, next month, the new Ministry will embark on a comprehensive exercise to develop a strategic manpower blueprint for Singapore in the next century. This blueprint will be known as the Manpower 21 Plan. Mrs Yu-Foo has asked whether the Ministry will involve the trade unions and the employers in such an effort. Let me assure all Members that, apart from inputs from other key Government economic agencies, we will certainly consult the National Trades Union Congress and employer organisations in order to draw up the Manpower 21 plan. Manpower 21 will, in fact, bring together tripartite resources to focus on national manpower planning, development and management issues. This will help to strengthen the spirit of tripartism to help us face up to economic challenges in the future. 5.30 pm However, Sir, we are not waiting for Manpower 21 to be completed before taking any initiatives because it will obviously take quite some time to go through the whole exercise of identifying the key issues and the priorities, and mapping out a strategy to cope with each of these areas or special needs. We will, in fact, start work immediately in April this year. And one of our first tasks will be to study, integrate and coordinate existing manpower programmes, such as the Skills Redevelopment Programme, the Back-to-Work Programme and the Skills Certification Programme, with our overall manpower vision. In particular, Sir, we will be looking at how to expand the Skills Redevelopment Programme which had started in December 1996. This is particularly urgent because of the economic slowdown and the prospect of increased retrenchment among our workers. We will have to speed up the process of reskilling workers who are likely to face retrenchment so that they can be redeployed effectively to other sectors of the economy which are still in need of workers. If I understand correctly, Mrs Yu-Foo Yee Shoon suggested that there is also a need to train Ministry of Manpower's staff, trade union leaders and employees in companies who are responsible for human resource management duties. I agree with her. I think there is a need to train such people who are generally grouped as the human resource practitioners. I agree with her that the Ministry of Manpower, as a national manpower agency, should ensure that our own staff are also well trained, kept up to date with the latest development in human resource, management and also issues concerning manpower. We will ensure that there will be ample training opportunities for our own staff and we will support any national programme to create more opportunities for training of human resource managers and trade union leaders. For instance, the Government is already presently supporting the Singapore Institute of Labour Studies (SILS). Government has given the Institute a substantial grant to start up their endowment fund and this will help them to finance their operations. We will continue to give the SILS the support that they require in order to fulfil its mission of providing training for union leaders to improve their ability to manage industrial relations. Next, Sir, I have to respond to the hon. Member, Mr Chay, from Tanjong Pagar GRC. He made a very eloquent and very persuasive argument why the name "Ministry of Manpower" should be reconsidered. I would like to tell him that, in fact, when the idea of expanding the roles and responsibilities of the Ministry of Labour was first mooted, we did actually consider the name "Ministry of Human Resource". It was certainly one of the alternatives. As Mr Chay has pointed out, the term "human resource" appears to sound more progressive and modern and in keeping with the IT and knowledge-based era. It also applies to a wider range of issues such as individual welfare, personal development and personal fufilment. I have to admit that the name "human resource development" is quite relevant to the mission and duties of the new Ministry. Actually for this reason, we had to think over the choice of the name very carefully. We took a long time in deciding what should be the name for the new Ministry. Should we call it the "Ministry of Human Resource" and appears to be fashionable and correct in keeping with the age? Or should we call it "Ministry of Manpower"? However, when we looked back on why the new Ministry was being established in the first place, the choice became clear. The new Ministry has been given the responsibility of harnessing the full potential of our national manpower resources so that, firstly, we can ensure Singapore's pool of human capital or talent capital will become an engine of growth in a knowledge-based economy. Secondly, the new Ministry is to ensure that our people, Singapore's only resource, will become a strategic competitive advantage in the next phase of our development. With such a strong economic agenda to produce a world-class and globally competitive workforce, we felt that the term "manpower" better conveys the economic linkage and economic force of the new Ministry's responsibility. Manpower is also a term which is clear and easily understood by the people. Needless to say, to be effective as a national manpower agency, we will adopt practices and concepts of human resource development which are appropriate to the Singapore context. Calling the new Ministry the Ministry of Manpower will certainly not detract from its dynamism and dedicated pursuit of its mission. As the old adage goes, "the test of the pudding is in the eating". Whether it is "manpower" or "human resource", what matters eventually is how successful we are in nurturing a world-class workforce to ensure Singapore's long-term competitiveness and prosperity. Sir, in anticipation of such queries which are quite natural, I looked up several dictionaries. The Oxford English Dictionary defines "manpower" as: "The power or agency of man in work or the number of persons available for a purpose." I should also point out that the same dictionary also provided an explanation that "man" can be used as "a human being irrespective of sex and age". In other words, the "man" in "manpower" is the same as the "man" in "mankind". Chamber's Twentieth Century Dictionary defines "manpower" as: "The agency or energy of man doing work." Sir, the meaning closest to the use of "manpower" in this case came from Collin's Cobuild English Dictionary (New Edition) which I understand from the cover blurb is based on an "unrivalled in-depth analysis of the language of the 90s". So it is very current, very topical. Collin defines "manpower" as: "Workers are sometimes referred to as manpower when they are being considered as part of the process of producing goods or providing services". Indeed, Sir, in our context, workers are all we have as indigenous inputs to our goods and services output. Hence, it is not inappropriate to call the new Ministry the "Ministry of Manpower" to strengthen the links between our efforts and the viability and competitiveness of our economy. Sir, I next turn to the points made by the Nominated Member, Mdm Claire Chiang. She has made several excellent suggestions and observations. To begin with, she asked whether in the context of current economic downturn, what is the impact on women, particularly retrenchment of women. There is an obvious difference in the rate here in the sense that when you see most of the retrenchment in the electronic sector, and most of the retrenchment taking place at the production level, and also if you note that there are more women working as production operators, both Singaporeans and also female foreign workers on work permit, it is not surprising to find that if you have higher retrenchment in the sector, you will find more women there being affected by the retrenchment. As to whether retrenched women, in this case it would be, of course, resident Singaporean women who have been retrenched from the electronic sector, have greater difficulties finding jobs, I do not have the specific information on hand right now. But I gather that if they are actively looking for a job, there is very minimal difference in time lag, because the average time taken for a retrenched worker to get a job - this is for 1997 - was 1.8 months, and there was no significant difference between male and female, or between young and old workers. She has also suggested that we look at the long term strategy or specific plan to cater to the needs of the women in the economy and how to attract the women back into the workforce. Let me assure the Member that we will certainly take this approach in conjunction with our effort to map out Manpower 21 plan. Within the Manpower 21 Plan, we will certainly study the specific needs of women, including upgrading their skills in order to prepare them for the higher value jobs that are going to be created in the economy. She has also noted that in the labour force, there are fewer women, particularly above the age of 45. In fact, from age 30 and above onwards, the female labour force participation rates start to decline, and we have also observed this trend. That is why we have launched the Back-to-Work programme about 18 months ago. We understand the difficulties faced by women because they have to balance the needs of the family and also a career. That is why we have convened an Advisory Committee for the Back-to-Work programme. The Advisory Committee has held quite a number of meetings already to study how to further develop this Back-to-Work programme so that it will be able to meet the needs of the housewives who want to rejoin the workforce in particular, or the kind of training that will be required in order to enable some housewives who have left the labour force for quite some time already to be re-equipped with the skills, so that they can take on the jobs that are available in the job market today. We will certainly convey her suggestions to the Advisory Committee on the Back-to-Work programme, and we will see how we can further expand this programme and make it more relevant to the needs of the women, particularly in light of the potentially higher retrenchments among women in the labour force. The Member also spoke about the needs of those who are physically handicapped, I believe, in trying to look for work for this group of Singaporeans. I share her concern and I agree that we should not overlook the needs and the special requirements of this group of Singaporeans. They can also make a contribution in their own way, and we should have the opportunities for them. My Ministry presently works with Bizlink Centre to provide employment assistance to Singaporean job seekers who have disabilities. This Bizlink Centre was set up under the Ministry of Community Development and the National Council of Social Services. They specialise in looking into the employment needs of the disabled. It offers job-matching services to people with disability who are found suitable for general employment. Those whose disabilities are so severe that they cannot cope in a normal working environment, we try to find them appropriate jobs in sheltered workshops, activity centres, as well as in Bizlink's own production workshop. Sir, based on feedback from Bizlink, if people with disability are prepared to work and have the basic capabilities, we could train them and prepare them for a job which could be as rewarding as those of a normal Singaporean. So my Ministry, or come April the Ministry of Manpower, will continue to work with Bizlink and other Ministries, like Ministry of Community Development, to look into ways to enhance the employment opportunity for the disabled. This would include encouraging and helping employers to create suitable jobs which will meet the needs and constraints of persons with disability. And here I want to emphasise that this is a very important point. We have to get employers to cooperate with us, employers who are generous and willing enough to take the extra step to cope with the challenge of employing those who have some physical handicap. 5.45 pm Sir, I next turn to several Members who spoke on the Government's policy to attract foreign talents to Singapore. They have spoken generally in support of the policy. I do not believe any one of them had questioned the wisdom of this policy to attract talent to Singapore. But they have urged that Government's policy or attitude towards foreign talent should not disadvantage local talents or the homegrown talents. First, I would like to stress that local talents will always be the foundation of our manpower pool. Without adequate local talents, we will not be able to compete in the global market. Foreign talents and workers will be welcomed to Singapore to supplement and add value to the Singapore workforce. They are here to supplement our own talent so as to enhance our economic competitiveness. Over the past 10 years, the Singapore economy has outpaced the growth of our own workforce. As a result, the labour market has become much tighter until very, very recently. We have seen unemployment remaining at low levels for many years. Last year, the unemployment rate was 1.8%. Without the contribution of foreign talents and workers, we would not have been able to sustain the growth rate of 8.9% on average between 1987 and 1997. So foreign talents and workers make a very valuable contribution to our economy and they allow us to grow at a much higher rate. So we should look at the issue perhaps from the perspective of stock and the flow. We have a stock of indigenous talented Singaporeans who can contribute to the economy. But as long as we just live within this stock, then our economic growth and the opportunities for prosperity would be limited to what we can produce with our own stock. But if we were to stimulate a flow of talent from all over the world towards Singapore and we bring in the right kind of talent who would supplement what we have in our stock, then we would be able to achieve much more than we can with our own people alone. We will be able to have higher growth, as has been seen in the last decade. We have achieved much higher growth because of the injection of foreign talents and foreign workers. So the flow of foreign talents into Singapore will supplement our own resources and help us to achieve much higher growth rate than otherwise possible. Let us consider some of the recent trends that have been reported in the various business magazines and newspapers in the US. Consider a labour force of the size of the US. Even today in the US, the top executives in the electronic industry in particular are lobbying their government in Washington to relax the quota for the H1B visa, which is meant for foreign professionals to enter the US to work. They have done so because the labour market in the US has become very tight. There is a serious shortage of talents, particularly, in the IT industry. Unemployment rate in the US has dropped to 4.6% which I believe is an all time low. The industries, particularly the IT industry, desperately need foreign talents to meet their manpower needs in view of this very tight labour market. And here is a huge nation with over 200 million people and vast resources, and they are still recruiting foreign talents to supplement their own workforce. Compared to the United States, Singapore, with its unemployment rate of only 1.8% and a very much smaller workforce of about 1.9 million workers only, surely our need for top-up talents must be much more pressing and critical than the United States. Sir, foreign talents certainly will help us to enlarge our economic pie and create greater wealth for all. Let me give an example. In some high-tech electronic companies in Singapore, foreign skilled workers make up 50% to 70% of the skilled labour force. The employers are simply unable to hire enough from the local talent pool to meet their needs, either due to an outright shortage of such people or the locals find other jobs are more attractive and unwilling to take on these jobs. Without access to the skilled foreign workers, these high-tech companies would not have been able to operate in Singapore. We would not have been able to attract them to invest in Singapore. And at the end of the day, we would not have been able to have such investments, we would not have been able to create the employment opportunities for another 15% or 30% of the company's workforce who are Singaporeans. So by making available a steady flow of foreign talents and workers to investors in Singapore, we are actually helping to create more employment opportunities for Singaporeans. While figures show that there is a shortage by sheer numbers, the question is how do we ensure that foreign talents and workers are not coming in and displacing Singaporeans from the same desired positions. Several Members including Mr Shanmugam and Mr Zainul have spoken on this. We have always subscribed to a free market policy which promotes competitiveness and greater efficiency. This would apply to a certain extent to the manpower arena in the labour force as well. Protectionist measures, whether it is in trade or labour force, would hamper the upgrading of our local workforce and create a false sense of complacency and security. If Singapore wants to become a world-class workforce, our local workers must be able to match up and compete with workers anywhere in the world. We must be able to measure up to global standards. However, the Ministry of Manpower does not intend to flood the labour market with foreigners. Foreign talents are actively pursued when they bring critical skills which we lack or when they bring intellectual and entrepreneurial capital that will sharpen the competitiveness of our economy. Our priority would remain on fully developing the talent and capabilities of Singaporeans. This begins with the Ministry of Education's effort to provide a sound and relevant education to young Singaporeans in schools, polytechnics and universities. The process carries on when the young Singaporeans join the workforce through programmes on continuing education and training. The key issue here is to ensure that national resources are focused and applied optimally to enable local talents to develop to their highest potential and to fully reach this potential in order to be able to compete and capitalise on the contributions of foreign talent. Mr Shanmugam has asked if the Government will assure that foreign talents will not be given special privileges and as such, they would move up faster or why is it that foreign talent coming to work in Singapore and enjoying the benefits of Singapore do not have to do National Service. I think we have to take a wider perspective when we set out to attract talents to Singapore. Our policy will not discriminate against our own talents, ie, our own workers. For instance, we will certainly not encourage our employers to pay foreign talents, with the same qualifications and capabilities as local talents, more in terms of monetary compensation or benefits. It will just not make commercial sense to begin with. However, most employers who need to bring in foreign talents would need to provide one-time relocation assistance to facilitate the foreign talents' relocation to Singapore. I think this is unavoidable. And in the same context, a Government scheme to set aside some HDB flats to house foreign talents is necessary in view of the high cost of private sector housing in Singapore. Such specific measures to facilitate the relocation of talents to Singapore must be expected in view of the global competition for talents. If we do not make any effort to overcome the intrinsic hurdle and difficulties that we face, then very few foreign talents will actually come to Singapore. Let us not forget, Sir, that the talents that we want to attract are also being courted by employers in other countries. I have mentioned earlier that the IT industry in the US is planning to attract many more foreign talents. But we should also take note that many other countries are also scouring the world for talents to boost their competitiveness. As for National Service, we should not view it as a stumbling block or a disadvantageous factor against our own talents in Singapore. Rather, National Service enhances each and every male Singaporean's overall development through the knowledge and values acquired during the training and, more importantly, a dedicated service to defend the nation. I would also like to take this opportunity to point out that if foreign talents who come to Singapore choose to sink roots in Singapore, then their children, being second generation migrants, will of course have to serve National Service like any other born and bred Singaporean. Sir, in the globalised economy, there will be strong competition for top talent. We have to create the right environment to attract some of the talents to come to Singapore to help us to become more competitive. Here, I would like to point out that I agree with Mr Zainul that we have to ensure that our international image remains conducive in our effort to attract foreign talents. Because talented foreigners would want to work and live in a dynamic, secure and culturally rich society. I think we can offer such an environment to attract the best to Singapore. For other foreign workers, we can offer safe, secure and rewarding employment opportunities. The Ministry of Manpower will continue to enhance the workplace environment so that local and foreign workers and talents will be able to give their best in rewarding jobs. In particular, we must make them feel welcome and motivate some of them to sink their roots here. They will make a significant contribution and add value to our economy. The Ministry of Manpower will be willing to work with NTUC and the Singapore International Foundation and any other organisation to realise this vision to ensure that we will be successful in our effort to recruit talents to top up and supplement our own talent and manpower resources. Sir, as part of the coordinated approach to manpower development in Singapore, the new Ministry of Manpower will take on the overall attraction and management of foreign talents and workers. These will include all the policies, programmes and operations related to the flow of foreign talent into Singapore. We will also put up a supplementary budget in due course to ensure that there are sufficient resources for managing the foreign talents and workers in Singapore. 6.00 pm Sir, in summary, as Singapore aims for a world-class workforce, we need to position Singapore as a global talent capital or a talent hub. Singapore is where the best talent will converge, both local and foreign. We will create an environment for talent, local and foreign, to excel in their areas of expertise and add value to our economy. We will facilitate employment training, especially for Singaporeans at all levels, so that they are able to compete with foreign talents and workers. Finally, I will respond to Dr Wang, the Member for Bukit Timah GRC. Dr Wang is correct in pointing out that manpower planning will be a complex task. It is not an easy task. Some, in fact, may argue that because of rapid technological changes, and the changing skills that are required by employers, manpower planning might become less relevant. However, we differ. In the context of Singapore's small labour force, manpower planning is crucial. We have seen that this small workforce is insufficient to meet the demands of the economy, and hence there is a need to supplement with foreign talents and workers. Faced with such a situation, we need to have a coordinated manpower planning to ensure that manpower demands are met and, at the same time, retain the desired social fabric and cohesion. Manpower planning is important to bring about an efficient and sustainable balance of manpower demand and supply. To move Singapore up the development ladder, we must be conscious of the rapid changes in technology and to take advantage of this. Manpower planning will hence take a demand driven approach, to keep abreast of the new industry trends and encourage training in new areas of specialised skills to meet the ever changing needs of the globalised economy. To some, manpower planning may be a very mundane and very complex process. But let me point out that in the demand driven manpower planning process, it is very dynamic, and it aims to anticipate and better prepare for the changes in technology and economy. Currently, the Council of Professional and Technical Education (CPTE), which is chaired by the Ministry of Trade and Industry, gives broad recommendations to tertiary institutions on their student intakes, based on demand and supply analyses. Dr Wang quoted the example of the restriction on the number of medical students. I would not go into the details on this subject because it has been extensively debated and discussed in this Chamber by the Minister for Health, the argument on why there should be some restriction on the number of doctors that are trained in NUS and also on the number of foreign institutions whose graduates will be recognised. But what I want to point out here is that manpower planning in general does not always aim to limit enrolment of students at tertiary educational institutions, but rather to ensure an adequate supply of skilled manpower in critical areas of the economy. In fact, sometimes manpower planning do actually increase the range or the spectrum of choice available to students, by encouraging institutions to take on new areas of specialised education and training which they may not have been doing in the past. Because through the process of manpower planning, we have been able to anticipate the economic development in a certain direction, the emerging needs of new industries and that we are able then to transmit these messages to the tertiary educational institutions and encourage them to prepare their students or to start up new opportunities for their students to prepare for careers in these industries. For example, in the past, the CPTE had recommended that the university broaden the curriculum of their science courses to make it more technology based, so that their graduates will be able to do a much wider range of jobs in the industries. Polytechnics have also come up with new multimedia courses as a result of emerging demand in the IT industry in Singapore. This move initiated through a process of integrated manpower planning, supplemented by coordinated manpower development, will help to ensure that our local workforce possess the right mix of skills and experience required by the global market. Sir, in the long run, manpower planning aims to move Singapore towards a globally competitive workforce. Through the upgrading of the economy, Singapore would reduce our reliance on unskilled foreign workers and increase the overall skill profile in the economy, including both local and foreign workers. A dynamic and skilled workforce will enhance the overall international image of Singapore, one with a world-class economy with a world class workforce.

Sir, the subject of tripartite partnership was discussed at length recently when the Nominated Member, Mr Cyrille Tan, moved a motion in this House for the Government to recognise it as a key competitive advantage of Singapore. Sir, I feel the adoption of the motion could not have come at a better time in the wake of the current economic slowdown arising from the regional financial crisis. As a private and manufacturing sector employer, allow me to provide my perspective of tripartism from the employer's viewpoint. We all recognise that we currently live in an era of pervasive change. Companies and organisations will have to keep reshaping itself, shifting and flexing to fit the rapidly changing world. This is the only way we can hope to survive in this fiercely competitive environment. Speed is another crucial element for business survival these days. Slowness kills companies and this translates to also the death of many careers. Workers must therefore recognise that many changes going on are designed to help their companies pick up speed. Everyone is expected to operate with a stronger sense of urgency to get things accomplished. I believe speed even ranks higher than perfection in this challenging business environment we are operating today. High quality is important but it must come quickly. Even if it means failure, we need to learn to fail fast, fix it and race on. The days of solely relying on incremental step-by-step improvements are over. We need to seek radical breakthroughs and quantum leaps to remain relevant. Our workers, therefore, must expect and be prepared for flexible waves of working. Duties and tasks will be regularly realigned to suit changing conditions. Short-lived assignments will be more common. Workers can expect to have a constantly new set of co-workers, work for more than one boss or switch bosses more often. Companies will prefer workers who show a high capacity for adjustment and want those who can adapt fast, not those who resist change. The current economic crisis sets the stage for even more rapid changes within companies and organisations, as they restructure their operations to stay competitive and relevant. Our unions have demonstrated their responsibility in the past by acting positively to assist companies become more productive and efficient and, as a result, enable both employers and workers to benefit from higher profitability. I see no reason why this cordial partnership could not be put to beneficial use at a time when companies are faced with difficult business decisions in the wake of the financial crisis taking its toll on our economy. Sir, our priority must be to preserve jobs. I think employers should recognise that our responsible unions have the capacity and expertise to assist companies in trouble and those having cash flow problems due to their business exposure in the region. They could therefore be pro-active by sincerely and honestly sharing their difficulties they face with the unions. Trust could be strengthened and built by having management and union leaders sitting down together to sort through the various options to save jobs, such as moderating expectations, cutting down on the variable components of wages wherever possible, implement wage freezes or working short weeks, depending on the issues afflicting the troubled companies. Sir, there has been so much talk and emphasis given to upgrading the skills of employees but, unfortunately, this is not correspondingly met with concrete and swift action to tackle this problem. With activity tapering off in the light of the present economic slowdown, it presents an outstanding opportunity for employers to conduct the much needed training and skills upgrading which many employers have kept postponing during peak periods. This is where employers and unions, with the assistance of the newly set up Ministry of Manpower, could quickly act to get our workers trained up so that they will be more knowledgeable, productive and efficient when better times return. At the national level, as already asserted by NMP Cyrille Tan and the Member for Kreta Ayer-Tanglin GRC, Mr Sinnakaruppan, during the February 1998 debate on this subject, I would like to echo their sentiment on the urgent need to establish a structured programme to ensure life-long employability of our workers. I am glad to note that the Minister, Dr Lee Boon Yang, has just announced that the Ministry of Manpower will make this as one of its key priorities when it begins functioning from 1st April 1998. Sir, our unique tripartite setting which I am certain is the envy of many countries has worked marvellously for us. The union movement has demonstrated its value and usefulness to not only help companies and businesses become more productive, but also contributed in steering our industries to become one of the most competitive in the world. Companies, workers and nation have collectively benefited from the peaceful harmony created by the tripartite partnership. However, past success should never be taken for granted. The three partners in this relationship will be tested in the wake of the constantly changing and increasingly competitive global business environment. There is, therefore, a corresponding need to also constantly nurture and strengthen this tripartite partnership to suit the changing landscape as we endeavour to build a world-class and globally competitive workforce.

Sir, with your indulgence on the question of names between MOHR and MOM, my choice, of course, is clear. In fact, the word "MOHR" reminds me of Oliver who is asking for more. In the tradition of our training and retraining, I thought MOM is best and wise too, with due respect to my colleague, Mr Chay. And as suggested by Dr Lee, the test of the pudding is in the eating, so while we wait for MOM's pudding, allow me to share some food for thought on tripartism to strengthen MOM's foundation. I am glad to see that MOM has included and I quote, "to harmonise workers and employers' interests in employment, safeguard workers' rights and provide advisory and promotional services in labour-management relations as part of its terms of reference for its labour relations department." From the Ministry's point of view, what are the possible minefields one needs to look out for in terms of future tripartite relationships, particularly in the context of the economic turmoil in the region and possible economic restructuring? 6.15 pm As a labour MP, I dare say that the union leadership, and the labour movement as a whole, will play its part to help companies meet the challenges of the region's economic turmoil. This is not a mere rhetoric. The NTUC and our workers have proved themselves to be positive and made the necessary sacrifices to help Singapore move out of the 1985 recession. The CPF cut then was proof that the unions were ready to take initiatives and make tough decisions when the situation demands it. In another instance, for example, Straits Steamship of the Keppel Group, there was agreement then to cut wages across the board so that retrenchment could be avoided, helping workers to keep their jobs back in the mid 80s. We have been told that the situation today is not as bad as in 1985, and there is no need to cut CPF contributions, and that is only an option of last resort. We are reassured, Sir. But workers must be ready to accept tough decisions to make the companies and the economy as a whole a lot stronger. After all, there must be a strong commitment to work as a team for the longer term interest of Singapore. My question, Sir, is: how does MOM see her role to ensure there is that understanding and that employers too will play their part and not take advantage of the situation, say, to get rid of older workers as a way to reduce cost? I am reassured also, as Mr Ahmad Magad has spoken, that on the part of employers they have to play their part to help us form this formidable team in facing the economic turmoil.

Sir, over the years, our workforce profile has changed drastically. In 1992, there were only 15.8% executive, managerial and professional staff. Today, there are 21.5% of them. With 60% of every PSLE cohort going into university and the polytechnics, this group will further increase. All these have serious implications for the labour movement. It will mean that the membership and leadership pool will decline. It will mean that those who are eligible to join unions will decline to 40% of the total workforce. It is not by accident that we have a harmonious industrial relations climate which had enabled employers to get on with the task of managing their companies with no disruption. A key contributing factor for the industrial peace that we had enjoyed is because of the quality of our trade union leadership. This would be compromised if we cease to have leaders of such calibre because they fall outside the scope of our trade union representation. More so than in the past, we will need such leaders now, because of the changing nature of our economy and the demands of global competition. This requires trade union leaders who understand the ground well but at the same time have the knowledge and sophistication to deal with complex issues which are global in nature. Looking at the issue from another angle, executives and managers are also employees of a company and do need some kind of assistance when they have problems. Seeking redress in the courts can be a costly, time-consuming and generally damaging experience for the individual arising from the attendant publicity that arises. Litigation is not necessarily the best option for employers either. It results in a workplace that is hostile and will cause loss of productive manhours when a company has to defend against expensive law suits. Therefore, we would like to encourage executives to bring their grievances to the Ministry of Manpower for conciliation. Sir, I am aware that there are presently guidelines to help weed out bogus titles. These guidelines were passed in 1992 and were an attempt to overcome some of the difficulties faced in organising executives. Instead of amending section 16(3) of the Industrial Relations Act, we agreed that one alternative would be to try out these guidelines and gauge their effectiveness. While the guidelines have resolved part of the problem, the restriction on a rank and file union representing genuine executives remains unresolved. It is time that we reviewed these guidelines and come out with more effective solutions. This review could be done through tripartite efforts and through the good office of MOM, so that a consensus may be reached on this issue.

Sir, we have come a long way from the days of industrial strife, of strikes and riots, of economic stagnation. Today, in a workplace dispute, our union leaders try to settle them through negotiation. But if there is a deadlock, the disputes would be referred to the Ministry of Labour for conciliation. And if no settlement is reached, they are sent to the Industrial Arbitration Court. I hope that when it is set up, the Ministry of Manpower will continue to play an active conciliatory role. With experienced conciliation officers, handling of disputes will be smoother. In my view, we need more experienced hands to serve as conciliation officers. Officers posted to the conciliation department need time to become familiar with labour laws and industrial relations practices. More importantly, they need to get to know industrial relations practitioners on both the management and the union sides. All this knowledge goes to waste if they are transferred out of the conciliation department too frequently. The present system of settling disputes was put in place by the older generation of PAP leaders who did not want to see the trade unions put in a disadvantageous position. This symbiosis between the PAP and the NTUC has since developed into a tripartite relationship among the Government, the unions and employers. Tripartism has helped Singapore to forge ahead. Let us not be complacent simply because we have a tripartite relationship that works. Other countries are also moving in this direction. In the 17th February 1998 issue of the Financial Times, Mr John Monks, General Secretary of British Trades Union Congress said, and I quote: `In the 1970s and 1980s, everyone talked just about rights. Now we know that with rights go responsibilities. Employers need to accept that with the right to employ staff goes the responsibility to deal with them collectively if that is their staff's wish. Employees and their unions know that with the right to negotiate goes the responsibility to work for the good of the enterprise in partnership.' In New Zealand and Australia too, there have been changes in dealings between unions and management. For quite some time, American unions have, under extenuating circumstances, accepted wage cuts so as to preserve jobs. If the developed countries get their tripartite act together, they could siphon off a huge chunk of investments now heading for countries like ours. We must do everything possible to maintain industrial harmony. One good way is for unionists and management personnel to attend the same courses, as they do at the Singapore Institute of Labour Studies. Then each will be able to better appreciate the problems faced by the other. Perhaps, it is time we allowed management personnel from the non-unionised sector to join in such courses so that they can better understand what trade unionism is all about in Singapore. The state of industrial relations will be severely tested during an economic downturn. While retrenchment is management's prerogative, I would like to repeat a call made by Mr Lim Boon Heng, NTUC's Secretary-General. Mr Lim said that employers should not cut back on training during an economic downturn. Instead, we should not stop training and upgrading so as to strengthen our competitiveness. Then we will be in a position to benefit when there is an upturn. Let me assure this House that our unions have been working with management to solve company problems, and make them more competitive. For example, members of a union worked overtime during the weekends to help an MNC meet an urgent order, thus paving the way for more new orders. Realising that its workers need to have their skills upgraded, the company signed up for the Skills Redevelopment Programme, a scheme initiated by the NTUC with support from Government and employers. With certificates that the workers will get at the end of the course, they can look forward to lifelong employability. Armed with such certificates, they can get jobs much easier should they be retrenched. In another case, union and management are working together to retrain workers, re-engineer the production process and inculcate a new mindset so that the company could realise its Vision of Excellence 2000 in quality, productivity and innovation. Sir, in difficult times, unions and workers are willing to make sacrifices and moderate expectations. When the economy recovers, I am confident that employers will reward workers for their commitments and sacrifices.

Sir, may I, at the commencement of my speech, ask the Minister the question, which is the whole purport and import of my amendment: Does his Ministry have any intention to restore to the workers their rights, which they took away from the workers back in 1968? Or is it the intention of the new Ministry, with its shift on emphasis, to bury workers' rights altogether and to forget them? I would like a clear answer from the Minister when he replies at the end, whether the Ministry proposes to restore to the workers these rights which were taken away from them, as I said, in 1968. 6.30 pm For the benefit of those Members who were perhaps not old enough, and who may not have studied the old legislation, let me remind them that under the Lim Yew Hock administration, before the PAP Government took power in 1959, our workers had some rights. The trade unions had their rights. But after the PAP took over, in 1967/68, after we came out of Malaysia, and the British government announced its intention to withdraw its bases from here, the Government decided to restrict and cut down on workers' rights and the rights of trade unions. And Mr Lee Kuan Yew who was then the Prime Minister openly said this in an interview with the BBC. He said, "I told the workers that Singapore would be experiencing a difficult time and it is necessary now for us because of the withdrawal of the British bases that we should build our own industries and build up Singapore's economy." And he said the workers and the trade unions were prepared to do that for Singapore. So there you have an attitude displayed by the workers then, an attitude of their acknowledging their responsibility for Singapore and the community. But Singapore has come a long way since then. We were told that Singapore has progressed economically and yet none of the rights that were taken away from the workers have been restored to them. Is that not a betrayal of the workers? Sir, a lot has been talked about tripartism, how wonderful it is. But may I repeat, what I think I read Mr Chiam as having said, it is hollow, because the trade union participating in this tripartism is not there as an equal partner. I do not think we have to pretend that the trade unions have the muscle and the clout that they possessed at one time. I am not just advocating rights for rights' sake. Everyone acknowledges that with rights go duties. And I am sure our workers know that and they have demonstrated their willingness to do their duty for Singapore and the community. But rights are important. In the first place, they give dignity to the working man. He feels protected, not because of assurances given by a Ministry or by an official. He feels protected because he says the law protects his rights. He can look at the law, he can point to it and say, "There we have it." And if their rights are not granted or broken, they can challenge those rights. So they give dignity to the worker, and that is important, to motivate the worker into working his best, into giving his best for the employer and helping in the economy of Singapore. Without any rights, he is completely, as I said sometime this week, at the mercy of the employer, and that is no way to treat our workers. We have got to give them an equal footing with the employers and assure them that their rights will be protected, not just because we say so, but because the law provides for the protection of their rights. So may I ask the Minister whether it is the intention of the Ministry to restore these rights? May I ask him again, whether it is the intention to set up an Industrial Tribunal which will deal with any problems or complaints from the workers that their rights have been violated. We had the Industrial Arbitration Court, but I have not heard or seen any decision from the Industrial Arbitration Court for many a long year. I wonder if it still functions. Is it not time we had an Industrial Arbitration Panel or Tribunal, as they do in almost all other countries? They have one in Malaysia which listens to complaints from the workers and hears them through their representatives, and then adjudicates on their rights against the employers. It is all very well for the Ministry and for other labour leaders here to say about the employers cooperating or they look to the employers to cooperate. It is not good enough. The employers have to understand that workers have rights. It is not a question of charity. It is not a question of magnanimity, but a question of the rights of the workers. So will the Minister answer these questions?

Eusofe): Sir, first, let me take the issues which have been brought up by the Member for Pasir Ris GRC and the Member for Cheng San GRC, Mr Ahmad Magad as well as Mr Zainul Abidin, and also the points made by Mr Cyrille Tan, the Nominated Member of Parliament. They have spoken about the issues of tripartism and labour management relations. As they have pointed out, this was a subject which was thoroughly discussed in the sitting earlier this year. Tripartism is a key competitive advantage of Singapore, and in discussing this motion we had got resounding support from Members and also from Parliament that it is a key advantage and we have made big steps as we go along to see how we could further enhance it, so that Singapore will be more competitive as we face the challenges of the 21st century. They have raised this issue again. I think it shows by itself how important the issue of tripartism is. Sir, currently we are facing regional financial turmoil and economic slowdown. And I think the question of tripartism is, therefore, very much more important. Members have spoken, and even quoted experience, of what happened in 1985 and 1986 when we had a recession. When the onset of recession came about, the tripartite framework was swift in its response. Through the NWC, an extensive package of anti-recessionary measures was formulated and implemented successfully with strong support from the employers, the trade unions and the workers. I think Members are aware that there was a drastic reduction in employers' CPF and there was acceptance of severe wage restraint and wage cuts. Now all these had been done because there was trust and confidence between management and the unions. As a result, the prompt and effective implementation of the cost-cutting measures helped companies and the economy to turn around quickly. And when growth resumed and Singapore continued to achieve strong economic growth from 1987, workers have been rewarded with substantial wage increases and good bonuses. All these were made possible as the social partners were able to pull together to overcome difficulties in times of economic adversity. Mr Cyrille Tan has pointed out that workers are prepared to make sacrifices for the long term good. So on the part of the trade unions and workers, they are prepared to put national objectives above sectional interests, and go for long term benefits over short term gains. On the part of the employers, they are prepared to share their gains when the business picks up and prospers. So I agree with the three Members, who have spoken, on the need for the social partners to work closely together to pull Singapore through the current difficulties caused by the regional financial crisis and the expected slowdown of our economy. Sir, our strong tripartite foundation has been built over many years. And it will certainly provide us with the mechanism and commitment to ride out the storm. Tripartite efforts to help deal with current problems will certainly be stepped up, at least in the following areas: First, in the area of cost, particularly wage cost. The NWC, which is a tripartite body, could deliberate and come out with recommendations on how employers, unions and workers and the Government could work together to help maintain the competitiveness of our economy, and of our companies, in the current difficult period, and how to safeguard the long term interest of our workers. And to assist workers who are retrenched as a result of this economic slowdown, Members have been informed by my Minister that we already had formed a tripartite panel and it has already started working. The panel will certainly find ways to facilitate the re-employment of retrenched workers and to encourage employers to also consider alternatives to retrenchment. In the areas of skills upgrading and training, my Ministry will work closely with the tripartite partners to formulate programmes to upgrade the skills of our workers, particularly the low skilled ones, to ensure that they continue to remain employable. Sir, at the company level, management, trade unions and workers should also work closely together to help the companies to improve productivity and help them to be more competitive, so that the companies are in a better position to cope with the current difficulties, and they can achieve their corporate objectives when the business environment improves. Sir, with all these efforts in the strong spirit of tripartism, I am confident that we will be able to ride out the storm and emerge stronger for the benefit of all. Let me now turn to the points which were made by ---

Mr Othman, we have got one more minute. You might want to reply tomorrow. It makes more sense.

All right.

Do I have the assent of Members to continue tomorrow? Hon. Members indicated assent. Thereupon Mr Deputy Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Deputy Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made further progress on the Main and Development Estimates for the financial year 1998/1999, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.

So be it.

Resolved, "That Parliament do now adjourn." - [Dr Lee Boon Yang]. Adjourned accordingly at Fifteen Minutes to Seven o'clock pm.