Hansard, 1970-03-19

Order read for consideration in Committee of Supply [1st Allotted Day].

Estimates of Expenditure of Singapore for the financial year 1st April 1970, to 31st March 1971, contained in Paper Cmd. 4 of 1970. For the convenience of hon. Members, I intend taking the total for each head of expenditure as it appears in the last column of the Abstract of Estimated Expenditure on pages 55 and 56 of the Paper. I shall deal first with the heads of expenditure in respect of which amendments stand on the Order Paper Supplement. Head 0106 -

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0106 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2009. Sir, may I quote from page 22 of the Memorandum on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure of Singapore for the financial year 1st April, 1970, to 31st March, 1971 (Misc. 1 of 1970): 'Decrease of $170,000 in O.C.A.R. is mainly due to a smaller provision being required for Bursaries and Other Assistance for Students of Higher Institutions based on past experience and a reduction in the number of President's Scholarships in view of the prestigious nature of these scholarships.' Sir, the President's scholarships for the year 1970-71 are being provided with a sum of $42,000 as against that of $124,370 for the period 1969-70, that is, a period of 15 months. In other words, no less than $82,000 has been lopped off. This is a drastic cut. I well know, Sir, that such scholarships are few in number and that, in most cases, the recipients win other awards. Therefore, three questions come to my mind. First, will the Prime Minister indicate the number of such holders who have graduated from their courses of study since the inception of the President's scholarships and in which areas they are now serving? Secondly, whilst I agree that such top honours are not easy to gain, I am wondering whether this further cut will not dampen the keenness in competition of the aspirants, in view of a further reduction in the number of awards this year, as was so stated. Sir, no one doubts that this is a highly covetous award which many of our students are aiming to get. Thirdly, Sir, will the Prime Minister indicate the number of awards made last year as against the possible number this year? Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker, Sir, we had occasion to discuss this same matter in the 1968 budget session. The Member for Punggol knows that the standards required for the President's scholarships have been set very high. Awards are made to those with exceptional academic performance and extra-curricular activities. The numbers awarded were nine in 1966, seven in 1967, six in 1968 and four in 1969. The awards for 1970 are being considered at present. I cannot anticipate how many will finally be considered worthy of becoming President's scholars. However, since 1967 Merit scholarships have been awarded to those who have done well, but did not satisfy the high standards required of President's scholars. Twelve of these were awarded in 1967, 13 in 1968 and seven in 1969. Of the 26 President's scholars to date, eight have completed their studies. Two were taken into the Administrative Service, one to the Economic Development Board. The others are being interviewed for appointment.

Sir, whilst going through the 1967 debate on the Estimates of Expenditure for 1968, in Vol. 26, from col. 632 (at the bottom) to col. 636, I notice that one point brought out was that the President's scholar, in addition to his winning the President's scholarship, will go on to win other scholarships as well and, as a result, he will get what is termed a "scholarship allowance" and not the full award. My question is this. Will not the full award of the scholarship enhance the prestige of the recipient rather than just a scholarship allowance? If that is the case, I think this $42,000 will go a much longer way.

With respect for the Member for Punggol, I believe that if scholarship is to be nurtured and encouraged, then too much money to young students may not necessarily bring about the best results. Last year, of the four who were President's scholars, three won other scholarships. So they were given a token sum of $500 per annum, in addition to their other scholarships. The year before, in 1968, of the six President's scholars, five won other scholarships. So each was given $500 per annum special allowance in recognition of their status as President's scholars. I am sure that the scholarships awarded are adequate for scholastic, social and other legitimate pursuits of our students. Giving them an unnecessarily extravagant sum of money will not improve the quality either of their studies, or their later performance in life.

In that case, I thank the Prime Minister for his answer and I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Ng, you have one minute before "guillotine" time.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0106 be reduced by $10 in respect of item (1) of subhead 2010. In moving this amendment, I have just one simple question. I wish to seek clarification from the Prime Minister as to what "unallocated awards" are.

Unallocated awards provide for unforeseen training requirements of high priority which arise as a result of changing circumstances, or sudden requirements which cannot be met from the regular bilateral or multilateral technical assistance schemes. The provision is utilised mainly for the awards, about 10 to 15 per year, for higher studies both in foreign and local institutions of higher learning. They meet the costs of passages, fees and expenses, and other relevant and necessary ad hoc expenditure.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. 2.45 p.m. The time allotted for Head 0106 having expired, the following amendment, standing in the name of Mr Ng Kah Ting, was not proceeded with. That the sum to be allocated for Head 0106 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3002. The sum of $1,855,240 for Head 0106 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0107 -

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0107 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2001. Sir, I would like to take this opportunity to underline the importance of ensuring that drivers of Government vehicles take every care to exercise their responsibility on the road. I crave your indulgence by referring to a point which I think is relevant and which was made by the Minister for Finance in his Budget statement. He said that qualitative improvements have taken place in our society, that there is more social discipline and that parvenu values are giving way to more positive group values. I agree generally with this statement. But I would like to state it as my opinion that our highways and by-ways may be the last bastion of these parvenu values, where everybody thinks of himself and apparently the devil takes the hindmost. I suggest that we make every effort to ensure that Government vehicles set an example of social discipline on the road - an example which I find more honoured in the breach than in the observance. There can be many ways and I leave it to the officers concerned to ensure this, but I think that every attempt should be made to get Government drivers to set an example of discipline on the public roads.

Mr Speaker, Sir, traffic conditions are getting worse in Singapore. This provision looks after damage to private vehicles caused by Government vehicles. As the Member for Katong will be interested in the figures for last year, the Government paid a sum of $49,739 as compensation for damage caused by the 607 Government vehicles which were involved in accidents. But these vehicles are knocked, too, and the Government recovered as compensation for damages caused to Government vehicles a total sum of $23,375. The Member can rest assured that circulars are sent out to Government departments to make sure that drivers take care and follow road regulations. Where an accident occurs as a result of the negligence of the driver employed by the Government, and if the Attorney-General thinks that a prosecution should be brought, it is brought. On the other hand, the facts may not warrant a prosecution but may warrant disciplinary action to be taken against drivers of Government vehicles. In that case, disciplinary action is taken. But I would agree with the Member that drivers of Government vehicles should set the example in Singapore.

Sir, I thank the Minister for his answer and I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $720,620 for Head 0107 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0301 - The following amendment stood in the name of Madam Chan Choy Siong -

Amendment (1), Madam Chan is not present. Mr Ang Nam Piau, amendment (2).

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0301 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1101. Sir, the present Government came to power in 1959 and under the capable leadership of the People's Action Party, the administration is efficient, honest and clean and has won the acclaim of people from all over the world. If we compare our country with the other countries in South-east Asia, we can say that the administration in Singapore is the most efficient. Sir, this good reputation should be maintained at all costs and it should not be spoilt by certain officers who are arrogant and proud. I have received complaints from my constituents and I would like to cite an example. The Citizens' Consultative Committee in my constituency wrote a letter to the Director of the National Museum on 31st October, 1969, stating that there was a hornets' nest along Island Club Road and requesting him to clear the nest. There was no reply. They wrote another letter on 14th November, 1969, and still there was no reply. On 2nd December, 1969, they again wrote to him. A reply was received on 5th December, 1969, informing them that, owing to the shortage of staff, the National Museum was not able to take any action in this matter. Sir, hornets are dangerous insects - Order.

Mr Ang, are you referring to subhead 1101?

Yes, Sir.

Has the Director of National Museum anything to do with the destruction of hornets?

Yes. He replied to our letter but he took a long time to do so.

All right, you may proceed.

(In Mandarin): Sir, if there was an accident, what would be the consequences? This matter was raised by the Citizens' Consultative Committee in my constituency. And in spite of two reminders, we had to wait for two months before we received a reply from the Director of the National Museum. If an ordinary citizen were to write to a Government department, you can imagine what would be the result. I am sure the authorities would just disregard or throw the letter into the wastepaper basket. Mr Speaker, Sir, this kind of attitude on the part of Government officials is deplorable and I hope the Minister can look into this matter and take measures to improve the situation.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not quite sure why the Member for Thomson should ever refer this topic to the Director of the National Museum who is more concerned with exhibiting stuffed animals than live hornets.

Mr Ang, I take it that you have got your answer. Do you wish to withdraw your amendment?

(In Mandarin): Sir, the Citizens' Consultative Committee wrote to the Director of the National Museum and if the matter did not come within his jurisdiction, he should have written to the Committee earlier. The delay was deplorable.

I think the Member for Thomson really ought to know his business better. He should refer the problems he faces in his constituency to the proper quarters to deal with.

I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0301 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1104. Sir, this is a new post in the National Museum. Can the Minister tell us the duties and functions of the Education Officer in the Museum? And is it necessary to have such a post in the Museum?

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Museum is visited very largely by school students and it is, therefore, essentially an educational institution. If the Museum is to serve its purpose usefully, it is necessary indeed that we should have one officer who will be able to organise tours on behalf of schools which carry out regular visits to the Museum. It is because of this reason that the post marked "Education Officer" has been created in the National Museum. This has been done on the advice of the National Museum Advisory Committee, of which the Member for Katong is the President. If the Member for Thomson wishes further information on this aspect, he can ask the Member for Katong. However, just to inform the House, the Education Officer is, as of this moment, seconded from the Ministry of Education. But it is our intention at some future date that this person should be part of the establishment of the Museum itself. The Member for Thomson may be interested to know that during the period 1st July to 31st December last year there were altogether 55 guided visits which represented 2,080 pupils and 194 teachers from 27 schools and the Teachers' Training College. 3.00 p.m. Furthermore, the Museum organised eight practical and field courses for 117 teachers who were teaching nature science or biology. We have also plans to arrange for talks and demonstrations to science clubs in schools, and it is because of these extended and enlarged services of the Museum that we have come to the conclusion that a full-time Education Officer in the Museum will be very necessary.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move. That the sum to be allocated for Head 0301 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3005. Sir, in moving such a reduction, it is not my intention that we stop making continuous attempts to instil into the people the importance of science and technology. These two important aspects of the modern economic development of nations have been ignored for too long, during the colonial period and the early post-war period. To make up for the loss of time, the Government has wisely set up a Science Council recently, and in accordance with its policy of promoting the study and practice of science and technology, the Ministry of Science and Technology was set up in 1968. Regrettably, however, the functions of the Science Council, as well as those of the Ministry of Science and Technology, remain not quite well known to the man in the street. Whatever have been the achievements of the Ministry of Science and Technology in the past two years, there have been some at least that have not been well publicised. If the achievements have been modest, it is quite understandable because a relatively small allotment has been made to this Ministry in the past budget. The total allotment covering the 15 months was only $390,200, whereas this year it has been increased a bit. It now stands at $455,280. Sir, I strongly feel that if the Ministry is to be able, to quote the Minister for Finance, "to provide for effective economic and statistical evaluation as, well as to determine the needs of industry with greater precision", then the present staffing position, as outlined in the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure of Singapore for the financial year 1st April, 1970, to 31st March, 1971, is far too inadequate. Sir, under subhead 3005 for this Ministry, I observe that $70,000 has been set aside, subject to Treasury sanction, for the employment of staff and $1 million under the Development Estimates for the establishment of the Popular Science Centre. Sir, I welcome the setting up of this centre, but with $1.7 million to start off for personal emoluments and the development of the Science Centre, I begin to wonder what kind of centre it will turn out to be and how it is going to achieve its desired objective of giving the citizens of Singapore a better understanding of what modern science is all about, although ultimately the building will cost $5.2 million. Sir, we know that even to set up a good laboratory in a secondary school costs much more than a million dollars. Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I thank the Member for Telok Blangah for his very staunch support, and I certainly hope the Minister for Finance will take heed of what he has stated. I would like to explain to the House that the concept of the Science Centre is being revised. As Members will know, at the moment we have the National Museum, one part of which houses stuffed animals and the other part houses Chinese beads, coins, porcelain and similar antiques. We recently requested, through U.N.D.P., the assistance of an expert, Miss Weston, who was attached to the Science Museum in Kensington, to advise us on the setting up of the Popular Science Centre. She has submitted a report to the Government in which she has recommended a Science Centre, not quite similar to the one in London but one which will be able to demonstrate the application of science to technology, to be built in Singapore. We have recently been looking into this problem and have come to the conclusion that the proposed Popular Science Centre should be more than that. Since we are going to spend a substantial sum of money - $5 million and perhaps more - we ought to find, firstly, a suitable site, and, secondly, to make up our minds what the Popular Science Centre should be. The conclusion is that the Popular Science Centre should consist of two divisions. One division will show the application of science to technology, and the second division will show exhibits relating to the life sciences. Recently, we have another U.N.E.S.C.O. expert, Mr Gardner, who came to Singapore to advise us on how to modernise the National Museum. He has come to the conclusion that the animals we are stuffing in the National Museum are antiquated and out of date. Most museums these days devote only a very small corner of their building to taxonomy. So he has suggested that perhaps it would be more instructive if visitors to the Museum could be shown the origin of life evolution, the relation between man and his environment, that is the ecological aspects of living matter, and perhaps even school children will be able to relate how biology is integrated with environment. I shall be having a discussion over this problem with the Museum Advisory Committee and the Curator, and will put up a recommendation to the Minister for Finance and the Minister for Law and National Development. I hope that the former will give me more money and the latter will give me a site so that we can have a Popular Science Centre. Admittedly the present location of the National Museum constricts its development and it is impossible to put up any other building close by. Furthermore, the National Museum is now located in an area of land that is, very expensive indeed, and somehow I feel that it is not justifiable to go along and make a claim to very expensive land which can be used for more economical purposes. This, briefly, then is the thinking of the proposed Popular Science Centre. I hope that when the time comes for claims to be made on the Finance Minister and the Minister for Law and National Development, I will have the staunch support of the Member for Telok Blangah.

I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. 3.10 p.m. The time allotted for Head 0301 having expired, the following amendment, standing in the name of Madam Chan Choy Siong, was not proceeded, with: That the total sum to be allocated for Head 0301 be reduced by $100. The sum of $455,280 for Head 0301 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0401 -

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*. (* The same amendment also stood in the name of Madam Chan Choy Siong). Mr Speaker, Sir, our economy has continued to progress very well in the last year. New factories are springing up all the time. New investments are coming in at a constant pace. This has enabled the various sectors in our economy to become prosperous. It has also created a large number of employment opportunities. The Ministry of Finance, of course, has done a great deal of good work. As a result of the prosperity in our economy, we have been able to overcome the adverse factors brought about by the impending withdrawal of the British forces. In the past, some people had certain worries and reservations. These have proved to be unfounded. The reason why we are enjoying our prosperity now is on account of two factors. Firstly, the Government has looked after all aspects of economic development very well. It has laid down plans and has provided excellent opportunities and favourable conditions for foreign capitalists to come here and invest. Secondly, our workers possess the aptitude and ability to work hard. In the interest of the country, they are willing to work hard. By doing this, they help industries to prosper. Unfortunately, their wages are still rather low. That is why. I would ask the Minister for Finance to try to do something to raise their wages. Mr Speaker, Sir, there is another point I would like to make. Our external trade last year has increased considerably. Total trade last year has exceeded the sum of $10,984 million. It has increased by about $2,000 million over that of 1968. Although the figures show an improvement in our economy, generally from the ship-building industry, tourism and various other sectors of the economy, we cannot deny that the unfavourable balance of trade is a weakness. Therefore, I would like the Minister to find a solution to improve our balance of trade. For example, we should send more trade delegations to sell our goods overseas. We should not confine our trade only to entrepot trade but we should trade with many more countries on a mutually beneficial basis. 3.15 p.m. Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister for Finance has given a warning that we must not be complacent about our present situation. This is very true. We must always remain alert. Because of this, we must look for more ways and means of increasing our income. We must explore new territories to expand our economy further. For example, can we not look into the question of starting fishery and dairy industries in our small island? We could also include the growing of orchids, or perhaps the rearing of tropical fish. It seems that our tropical products are very popular and welcome in Europe. In the past few years the income from the export of these tropical products has been several million dollars. Although our country is small, our agricultural industry has managed to earn about $200 million per year. So long as we continue to work hard in this direction, we will he able to expand our agricultural industry.

Madam Chan Choy Siong is not here.

Sir, I agree with much of what the Member for Sembawang has said. I would like wages to rise as fast as possible, with the proviso, of course, that this will not have any adverse effect on investment. The way to do it is quite simple. First, whatever work is being done now by workers should be done more efficiently and with greater skill; to the extent that productivity increases, this will allow workers to get more pay for the same job. The second way in which we can increase wages will be to develop those industries where a high level of skill and a large number of skilled workers are required, such as in the engineering and shipbuilding industries. Both these ways of raising wages should be pursued vigorously. The Member is worried about unfavourable trade balances. I do not know whether he has been listening in regularly to Radio Peking! Because Radio Peking is also worried about our unfavourable trade balance. Within days of the publication of our annual statistics of imports and exports, which invariably show a deficit on the balance of trade - this can be anything from $500 million to $800 million - these figures are quoted by Radio Peking as evidence that we are being exploited, or heading for bankruptcy, or whatever it is. Actually this large unfavourable balance of trade does not worry me in the least. For the balance of trade, that is, the goods we import compared with the goods we export, is only one element in the total balance of payments. To offset this unfavourable trade balance, we have what people call invisible earnings, i.e., earnings from shipping, banking, insurance services, the tourist trade, and profits made on the entrepot trade. Taken as a whole, my recollection is that over the last four years we have had a favourable balance on current transactions, taking visible and invisible items together. However, we should try, of course, to increase our exports, not so much to redress the unfavourable balance of trade, because I think this is of such an order of magnitude that it cannot be done, but because it would mean more income, more employment, and more prosperity for Singapore. Regarding the breeding of tropical fish and the growing of orchids, I am all with the Member for Sembawang provided he does not ask my Ministry to do anything about it. It is the responsibility of my colleague, the Minister for National Development. The Agricultural Research Station in Sembawang, which is in the Member's constituency, is doing a lot of work in breeding tropical fish. I believe they have discovered a way of making Japanese carp spawn in the tropics. This is the first time it is being done. In addition to orchids and tropical fish, I may say that we are doing quite a lucrative business in crocodiles. We rear crocodiles not only in farms in the countryside, but I am told in the city itself. However, lately I read in the newspapers that some crocodiles have escaped, and I hope this will not prove a menace to our citizens in future, This business of crocodiles, tropical fish and orchids has, as the Member said, a great prospect for growth.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, the Minister's reply is not too satisfactory. First, about the imbalance of trade, he says that I am influenced by Radio Peking. I would like to inform him that I never listen to Radio Peking. I have raised this question because there is really a weakness in our trade. If our trade balance gets worse, it is of concern to us. I think the Minister will agree with me. Second, in respect of other fields of development, I think we should engage in a diversification of our economy in order to earn more for our country. I think the Minister will, of course, carry out these projects, Anyway, Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker. Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1031. Sir, the progress of modern industrialisation in the Republic deserves high admiration. Almost every aspect is being looked after, such as technical facilities, training, research, both in large- and medium-scale industries. Needless to say, with these modern industrial facilities production from these industries will be speeded up and a vast consumption at home and abroad is expected. Sir, for export we have agencies like Intraco and the many missions abroad to look after sales. But at home I think we have not done enough. I would like to suggest that we encourage more citizens, who have a small capital, to start cottage industries or backyard industries in order to act as feeders to the manufactures of the big industries. I would also like to say that every assistance must be given to them. To do this, I think we must cut red tape to the minimum. For example, it I were living in a kampong or in a residential area and if I had a little money to buy simple machinery driven by electricity, I would start to produce something. But a few days later, if I were found out by the building inspector, he would immediately report me.

Ban the industry!

From there, the Chief Building Surveyor would come after me. And the Planning Department, the Health Division, and even the Fire Brigade would come after me.

It is a fire risk!

Sir, I would then have no alternative but to say, "Good luck", and close shop. And with that I think I would have to turn either to robbery or some other offensive deal. Sir, I think it is high time that the Government should readjust its policy, so that the small man with a small capital can earn a decent living.

Actually I have great sympathy for what the Member for Changi has said - sympathy for the small man who is arrested by the Chief Building Surveyor, the Fire Brigade, the Labour Ministry inspectors of machinery, and so on. Of course, it is not possible for my Ministry to connive at breaking the law. I can only hope that this sturdy breed of resourceful people will survive the persecution of these bureaucrats. Having said this, I should also say we should recognise that what the Member said has some economic sense. If we could have a large base of small industries which can provide services to the larger manufacturing units, we would have given our manufacturing sector additional strength and flexibility which is a distinct advantage over the rather highly organised manufacturing industries of the West. Let us take the case of the Japanese industry. You have the industrial giants, Mitsubishi, Fuji Steel, and so on. Supporting the production of these large-scale manufacturers, you have a host of small-scale units virtually run as cottage industries. These cottage industries which are run with very low overhead costs, have tremendous flexibility because they can switch from one product to another without a lot of retooling. In many instances they club together to form small industrial co-operatives. A member of the Japanese Diet who belongs to the Socialist Party (I do not know which of the Socialist Parties he belongs to, but he belongs to one of them) came here and said that if we wanted to know more about how Japanese cottage industries, often run on co-operative principles, are organised, he would be glad to help us. I certainly intend to avail myself of his offer. This subject actually may be quite relevant to us in the immediate future, because urban renewal intends to knock out the small machine shops in the Horne Road/French Road/Lavender Street area. The Urban Renewal Department think that these are small motor-car repairers, and they classify this industry as a "dirty" industry. Actually this is the heart of our ship-repairing industry. If we destroy this small industrial sector, then the bigger dockyards, like the Port of Singapore Authority, the Sembawang Shipyard, or the Jurong Shipyard, will find a very valuable and important source of support knocked off from under their feet. This is one effective way whereby we can strengthen the industrial sector, by giving facilities to small-scale production units which still have a very valuable part to play in modern industry.

I wish the Minister to inform this House whether, in the urban renewal scheme, the Government will demarcate a zone, not in Sembawang, of course, but in Changi, where small machine shops or cottage industries can be set up in that area.

Yes, that is precisely what the Government is planning to do. There is a piece of land in Thomson around the old race track which somebody has in mind for this purpose. But I have grave doubts whether this is the most suitable site. My Ministry and the Ministry of National Development are working jointly on this.

In spite of this explanation, I still have my doubts whether the site will be at Thomson or at Changi.

Do you wish to withdraw?

I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1151*. (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Ng Kah Ting.) Sir, I understand there are 36 banks operating in the Republic, of which 11 are locally incorporated and 25 are incorporated outside the Republic. Can the Minister inform the House what are the total deposits of the banks incorporated outside the Republic but are operating in Singapore, and the deposits of locally incorporated banks for the last ten years? As far as I know, no new commercial bank licences have been issued for the last ten years. Can the Minister inform the House how many applications have been submitted and how many foreign banks have asked permission to operate in Singapore? Can he also tell us what are the regulations governing the granting of licences to existing banks, either foreign incorporated or locally incorporated, to set up branches in the Republic? My last question is this. Do the profits made by foreign incorporated banks remain in Singapore or are they remitted to their parent bodies?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I share the sentiments which have just been expressed by my colleague, the Member for Changi. But being the co-mover of this amendment, I seek somewhat different answers. As I see it, we have in Singapore a banking structure. In the Estimates of Expenditure for 1969-70, there is a token provision of $10 for a Commissioner of Banking. In the Estimates of Expenditure for 1970-71, there is also a token provision of $10. In other words, is there a proper man to fill this post full-time? My colleague, the Member for Changi, has inquired just now how much deposits both the locally incorporated banks and those incorporated outside Singapore have got from the people of Singapore. The post of Commissioner of Banking is a very important one and I do not think that this $10 token vote is a sufficient guarantee that the office will be well run. Can the Minister enlighten us on the points which I have just raised?

The capital of locally incorporated banks - that is, capital and not deposits - comes to $204.8 million. The capital of foreign incorporated banks in their respective headquarters adds up to $3,363.9 million, as far as we can ascertain. I will not guarantee the accuracy of this latter figure. As regards the licensing of new banks, my policy is to decline all applications because I think we already have too many banks. However, in very exceptional cases we may allow new licences. I am allowing only one new foreign bank to be established - it is a German bank ---, and this is because of new interest shown by German industrialists to set up establishments in Singapore. As regards the remittances of profits, foreign incorporated banks are free to remit their profits if they want to or to plough them back into their Singapore business if they so desire. We are not restricting the remittances of profits. It will be wrong to do so. The Member for Punggol wants to know whether the banking staff are qualified. The answer is yes, they are qualified. They are being trained by an expert sent by the International Monetary Fund. An inspectorate is being built up slowly because we want people with proper qualifications and capacity. We have provided a token sum for the Commissioner of Banking because he is the same man as the Commissioner for Finance Companies. It is the same person occupying two posts and doing two jobs. In fact, he is doing work very much of the same type and using the same staff. This token provision is just a matter of financial procedure.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I would like to draw the Minister's attention to the salary code. The post of Commissioner of Banking is a Grade E post and the post of Commissioner for Finance Companies is a Grade G post. Their salary codes are different. So with one man running two jobs, are the two departments safe and are they well run?

They are quite safe and they are quite well run.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am not very happy with those foreign incorporated banks which earn their profits in Singapore and then are at liberty to send them out wherever they wish. If that is the case, the locally incorporated banks should be looked after by our Government since they stay here. Can the Minister tell us what contribution the foreign incorporated banks make towards Singapore?

We are an international financial centre. If we have a policy of keeping out foreign banks and not allowing enterprises to remit profits, then you will find that our position as a financial centre will slowly shrivel. We may lose a few million dollars when these people send back their profits, but in return for this liberal policy of allowing remittances of profits we get hundreds of millions of dollars of new investments. So, on balance, there is no doubt that this liberal policy is the right one.

In view of the explanation, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1461*. (* The same amendment also stood in the, names of Mr N. Govindasamy and Mr J. F. Conceicao) Mr Speaker, Sir, the post under this subhead is "Higher Executive Officer". I understand the Government has made provision for the Staff Training Centre in order to train public officers who have just been recruited into the various Government departments. All the new recruits will he trained in the Staff Training Centre; thus this post of Higher Executive Officer is provided for. At the Staff Training Centre these trainees will be taught how to go about their business and do their job well. But it is not enough to train them how to carry out their routine work. They should receive some training in courtesy and the correct attitude to adopt towards the public. After all, Government is spending money on this Centre and on this post. Mr Speaker, Sir, you will agree with me that, at the moment, many Government officers are behaving in the same manner as they did before the P.A.P. first launched its revolutionary campaign of trying to correct their attitude and behaviour. I will compare their attitude now with that obtaining some years ago. There is a marked difference. We all know that in October last year there was a forum conducted jointly by the People's Association, Radio Singapore and another organisation. It was a forum in which the participants discussed whether the attitude and behaviour of Government servants were satisfactory or not. During the debate both sides gave their views to support their arguments and there were pros and cons. But in the end the decision was in favour of the side whose proposition was that the attitude and behaviour of Government servants were not satisfactory. 3.45 p.m. Thus, the Staff Training Centre should not just concentrate on training the staff on how to carry out their work. The Centre should also conduct courses on the proper attitude and behaviour to be adopted because there have been complaints against civil servants. Some people complained to me that Government officers in certain departments behaved badly. I visited these offices myself. Sir, I went there in disguise. I put on dark glasses and wore a modern dress. I went into a post office which is frequented by residents in the area, as it was reported to me that the staff there were arrogant. I went to a section in the post office which did not sell stamps and I purposely said that I wanted to buy stamps. The person in charge spoke to me in English. He said, "Why do you come to this section to buy stamps? You had better clear off." So I went off. This proved that the complaints made by the residents were not false. They were well substantiated. On another occasion, I personally went to a Government department as I wanted to inquire about a certain matter. When I wanted to go into the office, a person asked me in Hokkien, "Who are you?" I replied, "I am a Singaporean." I also told that person that I was Chan Choy Siong. Then he realised who I was. His attitude changed immediately and he treated me differently. I am sure there are other departments where the staff behave in this way. There have been many recent cases of residents being evicted under the urban renewal scheme. These people went to the department concerned in the Ministry of National Development. They wasted their time and energy and incurred expenses by going there. We should realise that we are Singapore citizens. We should also realise that different races have different characteristics. The Indians have their own traditions and characteristics. The Chinese and the Malays have their own traditions and characteristics. The Member for Ulu Pandan has mentioned that some people were evicted just before the Chinese New Year. They had been staying in their houses for more than three years. The staff of the department concerned should have chosen a more appropriate time to evict these people so that they were not inconvenienced. This shows that there is no proper understanding of the characteristics of our people. Another complaint is about women whose husbands were members of the defence forces and who were killed during the Japanese occupation. These women are receiving allowances from the Government. But the department concerned has changed the procedure of paying this allowance. These women used to collect their allowance from an office on the second floor of Fullerton Building. But five days before the Chinese New Year, they collected only $20 each and were told to go to the Ministry of Interior and Defence to get the balance. They were also told that the M.I.D. would inform them where to get their allowance in future. The Minister for Finance should look into this matter. During Chinese New Year, traffic is very heavy and it will take about half an hour or more to get to the M.I.D. If these women are late, then no consideration will be given to them and the allowance will not be paid to them. From this example, we can see that the officers concerned did all this purposely. They knew very well that the Chinese New Year was coming. Why should they choose such a time to inconvenience our people? They might well say that this was something which was routine and that they did not have to oblige. If the allowance was to be reduced, they should have done so sometime before or after the Chinese New Year. Why should the allowance be reduced just before the Chinese New Year? I am saying this so that the Minister for Finance and the Government will realise that there are certain misgivings in the minds of the people. They want to know what has happened to the P.A.P. Government which has been boasting that it is an efficient and incorruptible government. We should therefore re-establish our image. With this provision, I hope we can again brainwash the public servants.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in the course of last year, the Political Study Centre, which was performing somewhat useful functions in orientating the minds of the civil servants in Divisions I and II, was closed down. Perhaps its importance had been reduced as a result of the past good services, or perhaps the new generation of civil servants does not require any political orientation. My point is that the functions of the Staff Training Centre are rather vague. I begin to wonder what kind of staff training can be given by this Centre when it is manned by just one H.E.O., one Executive Officer and one general clerk. By and large, Sir, the civil servants of Singapore deserve praise for their dedication to duty and their willingness to work hard. It is generally accepted that we have one of the best civil services in this region. Our officers are known to be honest, competent and efficient. I have not had any of the experiences that the Member for Delta has. But complaints have quite often been heard of a few Government and statutory board officials for being discourteous when dealing with the public. I admit that dealing with the public especially when one is hard pressed for time can be most exasperating and provocating. Dealing with ordinary people who are not well versed with legislation or government policy and procedure is bound to test the patience of minor officials who come in contact with the public, unless they possess special talent and aptitude for dealing with the public. Such talent and aptitude may not be possessed by all. But the situation can be remedied by having an effective training programme for those Government or public officers who come in frequent contact with the public in departments such as Immigration, Work Permit Office, National Registration, Citizenship, the Housing and Development Board, the Public Utilities Board, post offices and other offices where ugly and unpleasant situations may arise through misunderstanding or failure of communication. Sir, the politeness and tactfulness which we associated with the Government in relation to the public about ten years ago when the People's Action Party came to power has now become less noticeable. I am not advocating for one moment that we return to the methods used by the Government then to instil fear in Government employees in order to exact co-operation and courtesy from such officials when dealing with the public. But I do advocate a systematic training programme for officials to be taught the need for courtesy in dealing with the public in so far as it is relevant to whatever decisions they have to make. It is the invariable practice in Government departments for officers to give a curt refusal to requests or inquiries from the public without any further explanation, thus leaving the members of the public baffled and in the dark. The Staff Training Centre cannot, I feel, do any useful training with only three officials of clerical grade. Either we have a proper Staff Training Centre with the full complement of staff or none at all.

Mr Speaker, Sir, like the Member for Telok Blangah, I rise to seek further information about the Staff Training Centre. I would like to ask - What are the functions of the Centre? What sort of training schemes has it organised? Who are the staff training instructors? - information of that sort. I know there are various examinations that civil servants have to take. The Permanent Examinations Board of the Public Service Commission conducts a number of examinations. For example, there are examinations in law - the various aspects of it - general conditions of service, office procedure, financial procedure and so on. What I would like to ask is what facilities are available for civil servants who are preparing for these examinations? It seems to me that it is fair that, if we wish our civil servants to prepare for these examinations, courses should be run to help them to take these examinations. 4.00 p.m. Further, I would imagine that availability of books and reading material would be important. I notice that there is provision for periodicals and books under "Other Charges, Annually Recurrent", but perhaps that is inadequate. Finally, after having listened to the Member for Delta and to the Member for Telok Blangah, perhaps one of the courses that could be provided would be that relating to the public relations aspect of the work of civil servants.

Mr Speaker, Sir, whilst the Member for Telok Blangah has not had the experience of encountering rudeness from certain sections of the civil service, I stand together with my colleague, the Member for Delta, in her complaints. Certainly I think the Staff Training Centre is far from adequate in this respect. There is no doubt about it. The staffing there may be small, but there may be other instructors coming in between, but what we must not forget is this question of human relationship. Being in public service, whether in the statutory boards or elsewhere, those at the counter invariably will be under a certain amount of strain in having to deal with members of the public. Members of the public come from all walks of life. In other words, tact, politeness and courtesy must always be uppermost in the minds of officers who have to deal with them daily. I can draw from my own experience with my own constituents. Just to illustrate this -- in the Electricity Department of the Public Utilities Board, there is a counter for "Applications for Transfers", the words of which are written in the English language. Two persons went there. They did not know where else to go. They had to make some inquiries. It so happened that at about this time the officer handling this matter was about to close shop. However, since names are invariably wrongly filled in, one of them went to this person who rudely told him, "Look, your name is not the same as that in the identity card. Get lost and do not waste my time!" When I got this complaint, I, together with the two men concerned, went to the P.U.B. the following morning. I asked these two men whether they could recognise the officer who was rude to them, and they said, "Here he is," pointing him out. So I asked the officer, "Do you remember meeting these two persons?" He kept on denying and denying. Then I told him I was so and so, and that I was there to find out what had happened. I told him that I was not going there to make a charge against him or anybody. In the end, he reluctantly admitted. But that is not the only case of this nature. In the hospitals, M.P.s also get such problems. I had an experience myself. I quoted these two examples to show that during the last few years there have been clear signs of deterioration in the conduct of some of our civil servants. I am not saying that all of them are discourteous. Coming back to a point which concerns the Ministry of Health - I am happy that the Minister for Health is here. One of my Citizens' Consultative Committee members suddenly had a stroke in town and he was rushed to the General Hospital. I went there when I got the news. First of all, I found out to which ward this person was admitted, and I went to the ward, though I knew that it was before Visiting Hours' time. I went up to the staff nurse and asked, "How is the condition of this man? I am so and so and he is connected with my constituency and the welfare of the constituents." She could not even care to say anything. She just went about her work. In the end I said, "Look, can you answer this simple question? Do you not know the condition of this man?" She gave an irrelevant answer, and I said, "Look, I did not ask you that yet. I am asking you about the condition of the man, because I am concerned with his condition. If he had conked off, I would have lost a very important man in my area. What happened?" She just went about her work. I then said, "All right, I will see your Sister." She replied, "Go and see the Sister if you want to." That sort of attitude, Sir, is very bad. This discourteous attitude is slowly creeping back into the civil service.

Was the complaint reported?

Yes, Sir, a complaint was immediately made - this is just for the information of the Minister. No doubt he was not informed of it, because I felt it was a frivolous matter. It was, however, immediately attended to by the Matron and the Acting Secretary of the Hospital. In the end the Medical Superintendent rang me up and I said, "Forget about filing the complaint." I know very well the good work done by the nursing staff and the other members of the hospital. They are all the time under heavy strain, and human beings are human beings. We are here today debating the attitude of our civil servants under this topic. Sir, I would strongly urge the Finance Minister kindly to take note of what we Back-benchers have been facing and seek remedial measures, not those we took in 1959, but somewhat stern measures which would not bring about a further deterioration in the conduct of the civil service.

May I remind Members that "guillotine" time for this Head is 4.40 p.m, and we are now only on the fourth amendment, There are fifteen amendments under this particular Head.

Mr Speaker, Sir, obviously the Back-benchers feel very strongly on the subject of courtesy of our civil servants. I take the point. I am quite prepared to accept that there has been a deterioration of standards in certain sections of the civil service, and this is not a matter which the Ministers will accept with equanimity. I shall see what can be done to improve standards of courtesy. Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

It may be necessary to put a few heads on the chopping block. The nature of human beings is such that until they see quite clearly demonstrated beyond all doubt that we mean business, we will get this kind of slackness creeping back. It will help to improve the standard of courtesy if we run some kind of training courses for the civil servants. In fact, I am having discussions with the Chairman of the Public Service Commission and Mr Devan Nair to see which sectors of the civil service should go through some kind of residential training course, and, what should be the content of the training courses. I accept the proposition that something pretty stern and energetic should be done, and it will be done. As regards the Political Study Centre and the Permanent Examinations Board, we are now at the crossroads. As the old Political Study Centre has served its purpose, we need something to replace it. To be quite candid, the Permanent Examinations Board is something of a mystery to me. Some ten years ago, I tried to introduce some reforms in this rather Byzantine institution. I got the Member for Alexandra - at least he is now the Member for Alexandra - as a member of the Permanent Examinations Board; my colleague, the Minister for Health, was also a member. But their membership of this august institution did not make the slightest difference to proceedings. Quite frankly, I believe that the courses of training prescribed are irrelevant, They are totally useless for efficient civil service administration. I have asked the British High Commission to send a Treasury expert to have a look at our training system and see whether we cannot introduce twentieth century systems in our civil service training, and no doubt, in due course of time, we will get results. More than that I do not think I need say, except to assure Back-benchers, that we will do something to improve the standards of our civil service.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Madam Chan Choy Siong (5) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1501.

I am not moving.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1651. Sir, from the salary code of this post of Director of the new Industry Department, it leads me to the conclusion that this is an important department, as the name implies. It is observed that this new department will incur a total expenditure of $239,000 for the next financial year. Sir, my impression of this new department is that it will duplicate the functions of the Economic Development Division or the Government's agency, the Economic Development Board. The latter, especially, has all the credit to itself for the successful implementation of the industrial programme. Sir, my question for the Minister concerned is this - what are the purposes of the setting up of this new department? Will he amplify on this subject for the benefit of Members? Mr Lee Teck Him rose -

Dr Goh, would you like to give way to Mr Lee Teck Him?

No, I am not giving way.

(In Mandarin): This is not democratic.

I would like to explain to the Member for Mountbatten the difference of functions between the Economic Development Board and the new Industry Department of the Ministry of Finance. In order to attract industries into Singapore, we have passed several laws giving incentives by way of tax relief, licensing industries, tariffs and so on. These are functions exercised by the Ministry. After processing, the applications are sent to me for decision. The Economic Development Board is purely a promotion agency, which is to sell Singapore to foreign investors and to sell foreign investors to me. Naturally they will give the most euphoric account of any proposition which they get from overseas, and naturally they will sell Singapore in the most glowing terms to foreign investors. That is the nature of their work. 4.15p.m. But between the industrial promotion people and me, there is need for a rational assessment of what the Economic Development Board sends up to me. Quite often I have to do this assessment myself. Of course, if you have to read a memorandum running to, say, 20 pages in single spacing, this can be quite tiresome, quite apart from the fact that I do not have the time to check on the myriads of facts included in the memorandum. Therefore, it is necessary for a body of officials to assess E.D.B.'s proposals and to submit their assessment to me, so that I can get a fair and balanced account of whether the particular projects recommended by the E.D.B. have, in fact, the merits which they claim. This is to be fair to the E.D.B., to be fair to the foreign investor, and to be fair to the economy of Singapore. That is the reason why this new department is necessary. At present, of course, this work is already being done in the Ministry, but on a rather ad hoc basis. We have quite a number of chemical engineers as well as mechanical engineers, and they are doing this kind of assessment. But I would like to formalise the structure of work into a proper department, and this is what this new subhead seeks to do.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2007 (The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Ng Kah Ting.). Sir, you will observe that there is already an item of expenditure called "Entertainment Expenses" under the grouping, "Other Charges, Annually Recurrent" in the estimates of every Ministry and, in some cases, important departments in the Ministry. This annual provision varies from $12,000 for the Prime Minister's Office to $1,800 for the Public Works Department. However, there is now a new item called "Entertainment Expenses for Permanent Secretary" to be found in the same grouping. This provision varies from $1,200 for the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Culture to $5,400 for the two Permanent Secretaries in the Ministry of Interior and Defence. Sir, I have the breakdown figures of these two items of entertainment expenses, but I do not intend to take up the time of the Committee of Supply unnecessarily. I believe some of us might have read a report in bold headlines in an afternoon newspaper some days ago, that it cost the Government $2 million per year in clothing and entertainment. Sir, on the one hand, we are asking our common workers to forgo their claims for fringe benefits, and, on the other hand, we are pampering the top civil servants too much - if I may be allowed to use the word "pampering". But that is not quite my point. My point is on the necessity of providing this new vote specifically for Permanent Secretaries. If indeed the Permanent Secretaries, in the course of their duty, are called upon to entertain distinguished officials from abroad, such an expenditure can be charged against the appropriate vote already provided for the Ministry. The alternative, therefore, is to increase the vote to meet the additional expenditure. Perhaps the Minister for Finance would like to enlighten the House on why it is necessary to provide this new vote in the Estimates.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I think my colleague, the Member for Mountbatten, has covered this topic very well and leaves me with little area to cover. Sir, this is a new expenditure that will henceforth appear in the Estimates. For how long this item will appear I do not know, because it is being charged under the grouping, "Other Charges, Annually Recurrent". Under this vote, all Permanent Secretaries will be given entertainment expenses. I do not know whether or not this is an expense to be incurred in the course of their duties, as it is just charged to "Entertainment Expenses". But I would like to know how much this will cost the taxpayer each year. No doubt in some quarters it has been speculated to be $2 million, but I do not think so. My question is this: is it right or not to give Permanent Secretaries such entertainment allowances? Invariably we are going to follow the practice in commercial firms, where top executives enjoy certain perks, i.e., expense accounts, etc. But this item is an expenditure on the civil service, in which every cent to be expended requires the sanction of Parliament. In other words, Government should at all times be on the alert to see that monies requiring Parliament's blessing are wisely and worthily spent. I hope the Minister for Finance will care to comment these remarks.

Sir, this new practice of allowing Permanent Secretaries an entertainment vote is in accordance with the recommendations of the Harvey Salaries Commission. First of all, let me dispose of this $2 million nonsense on entertainment. I do ask Members not to give too much credence to what they read in the local newspapers. Most of the $2 million is for uniforms of the Police and the Armed Forces. Coming to these entertainment expenses, there are two points. One is that there is an entertainment allowance given to a person; and whether he spends it or not, that is his business. This is the practice in some institutions or business companies. The other is the entertainment vote. Here, you can only make use of the money if you produce the vouchers for it. Now, would it be a waste of money? In my opinion, no. In my view, our Permanent Secretaries are grossly underpaid in relation to the duties they perform and in relation to the pay that they can get in the private sector. A managing director, bearing a quarter of the responsibilities of a Permanent Secretary of a large Ministry, gets four times his pay. And if we grudge the top echelons of our civil service their minor perks, then I fear we have to put up with mediocrities - people who are less dependable possibly - and the end result will be a greater waste than this relatively small sum that we are setting aside for the entertainment vote for Permanent Secretaries.

Sir, I am not suggesting that we should abolish this new item of expenditure altogether. My suggestion is to charge this item against the original vote of "Entertainment Expenses", which is already provided. In this way we will not create the impression among the general public that we are giving favourable treatment to top civil servants.

Dr Goh, do you have anything to add?

No, Sir.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2093. Sir, my colleagues here have spoken about the inefficiency of civil servants, and so on, but what I have to say about the civil service concerns "Clothing for Office Boys and Others in various Departments". "Office Boys and Others in various Departments" here means not only office boys but the many other grades of uniformed civil servants in the many Government departments, in hospitals and so on. At present the uniforms are made of thick cotton material, which is warm to wear and difficult to iron. And even when the uniform is properly ironed, it does not look smart. There are now other types of clothing material available, which are thinner and therefore cooler, and they also look smarter. I therefore suggest to the Minister to look into this matter, so that our office boys and uniformed officers will look smarter - without having to increase the cost.

Sir, I think this is an excellent proposal. There is in existence in the Government service a committee called the Uniforms Committee. I do not know how often they sit, or when was the last time they considered this matter. But in a big bureaucracy there is inertia. Once you decide on a particular material for uniforms, it goes on ad infinitum, until some enterprising Member of Parliament draws attention to the need for a change. I will certainly get the Uniforms Committee to consider the Member's proposal.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2098. Sir, in moving this amendment, I seek the Minister's clarification of what sort of expenses have been incurred in connection with inquiries, commissions and conferences. In other words, what are the inquiries, commissions and conferences we have had last year.

Sir, last year we had quite a number of conferences in which money was paid out of this vote. In fact, there were 12 conferences. They are: (1) the Conference on the proposal for a Regional Institute of Higher Education and Development. (2) the second Council meeting of the South-east Asia Fisheries Development Centre. (3) the 25th E.C.A.F.E. Session in Singapore, which cost us quite a tidy packet; about $156,000. (4) the first Preparatory Meeting on the Asian Handicraft Centre. (5) the I.L.O. Asian Regional Seminar on Trade Union Research and Documentation Services. (6) the A.S.E.A.N. Committee Meeting on Transportation. (7) the Commonwealth Seminar in Singapore, which has just been completed. (8) the Fourth Asian Congress on Obstetrics and Gynaecology. (9) the Commission of Inquiry on Statistical Activities. (10) the Inter-Regional Seminar on Workers' Education. (11) the Commonwealth Telecommunications Network Preparatory Group Meeting. (12) the International Conference on Mass Media. Then there are various other minor commitments. 4.30p.m.

Sir, I was wondering whether these expenses could not be charged to the various Ministries instead of only to the Ministry of Finance.

I do not think it makes much difference either way. I suppose centralising the expenditure means that common standards can be applied. Otherwise, you may find that my colleague, the Minister for Science and Technology, who does not think that financial matters are important, may host these conferences on a more lavish scale. You might have competition among Ministers as to who is the most generous in ministerial meetings.

I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2101. Sir, there is a provision of $1,000 under this subhead entitled "Hotel Allowance". My question is, how will this sum be expended and by whom?

Sir, in the last few years we have had more and more experts sent from overseas under the Permanent Colombo Plan, the International Civil Air Executive Service Corps and various bilateral arrangements between our Government and other governments. This money is to pay for the stay of the experts for three days in a hotel, after which we either put them up in one of the Government bungalows or make some other arrangements for their stay in Singapore.

I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2104. Sir, with your permission, may I range over my other two amendments*? By not moving them, I may save some time. * The amendments read as follows: (12) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2105. (13) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2106.

Yes, all right.

Sir, these three subheads have almost similar titles: "Passages and Miscellaneous Travelling Expenses", with the addition of "General" in subhead 2104, "Overseas Service Aid Scheme" in subhead 2105, and "Other Overseas Officers" in subhead 2106. More than half a million dollars is involved in these subheads. I wish to seek elucidation from the Finance Minister as to what these expenses are for, and for whom they are to be used.

The sum under subhead 2104 is to pay for passages and expenses incurred by our civil servants, Ministers, Parliamentary Secretaries and others who go on overseas conferences. To ensure that there is uniformity of standard and no undue waste, all such proposals are vetted by the Cabinet. The provision for subhead 2105 is to pay for officers enrolled under the Overseas Service Aid Scheme. This is an arrangement whereby the British Government seconds some staff from their departments to Singapore, and meets the additional cost by way of inducement allowances. The Singapore Government pays the local salaries and passages for such officers. The provision under subhead 2106 is to pay the small number of overseas officers outside the scheme, for instance, those who are engaged on contract terms.

Sir, I thank the Minister for his answer. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendments stood in the name of Mr Ng Kah Ting -

Amendments (12) and (13) are not being moved. Mr Sim Boon Woo, amendment (14).

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0401 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 3001. Sir, I have only a short question. Government involvement in private industry and commerce has given rise to a lingering fear in the minds of foreign and local investors despite the Government's assurance of fair competition. Can the Minister make a clear-cut statement to dispel this fear so that the inflow of investment will not be affected?

Sir, I have made not only one clear-cut statement, but several clear-cut statements on this subject, and if people do not believe me, what can I do?

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Madam Chan Choy Siong -

Madam Chan Choy Siong is not here. The sum of $123,531,380 for Head 0401 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

I propose to take the suspension now. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

I suspend the sitting now and shall take the Chair again at ten minutes past 5.00 p.m. Sitting accordingly suspended at 4.38 p.m, until 5.10 p.m. Sitting resumed at 5.10 p.m.

Debate in Committee resumed, of Supply

Head 0402 - The following amendment stood in the name of Mr P. Govindaswamy -

Mr P. Govindaswamy is not here.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0402 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2006. Sir, with your permission, in my comments, I wish to range over my next amendment* on subhead 2007. * The amendment reads as follows: (3) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0402 be redued by $10 in respect of subhead 2007.

Yes.

Sir, there are two separate types of allowances under these two subheads. Under subhead 2006 there is "Compassionate Allowances" and under subhead 2007 there is "Singapore Allowances". Can the Minister clarify what these two allowances are? With regard to "Compassionate Allowances", may I know what they are for and who gets them?

Sir, compassionate allowances are paid to civil servants who suffer injuries or death in the course of their duties. For instance, there was a victim of civil disturbances in 1950. He sustained injuries and he drew this allowance. Widows who receive a basic pension below the minimum rate of $180 per month under the Widows and Orphans Pension Scheme also receive these allowances which are made on compassionate grounds. There are only a small number of people receiving such allowances. The Singapore allowances are paid to pensioners who are resident in Singapore and receive a pension of $331 per month or less if they have dependants, or $257 per month or less if they have no dependants. This is a throw-back to the past when civil servants seem to have had the cost-of-living allowances as well as the Singapore allowances. At that time, when these people retired, if their pension was below a certain level, they drew these allowances in addition to their pension. You will find that the cost of living allowances on pensions are provided for under subhead 2003. They belong to the same family of allowances.

I am satisfied with the Minister's explanation. I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Ng Kah Ting -

Amendment (3) is not being moved. Mr Ng Yeow Chong, amendment (4). 5.15 p.m.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0402 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2012. Sir, this provision of $6,000 is a new item of expenditure - "Incidental expenses in connection with Marriage Gratuity". This House may be interested to know to whom the marriage gratuity will be paid and the reason why it is paid?

Sir, before women were considered the equal of men, women officers in the civil service received a marriage gratuity when they got married. But after the 1st of March, 1962, when they were all placed on the same footing as the men, this marriage gratuity was withdrawn from them. However, those who were appointed before 1st March, 1962, are allowed to retain their entitlement to this marriage gratuity; but not for those who joined the service after March 1962.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $2,367,710 for Head 0402 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0403 - The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Ng Kah Ting -

Mr Ng has withdrawn amendment (1). Mr N. Govindasamy, amendment (2).

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0403 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2121. Sir, this amendment is moved with the intention of eliciting information from the Minister concerned whether he is aware that there are other clubs and organisations catering for the needs of civil servants which also deserve assistance. Sir, I am all for charity and assistance for deserving organisations. Though this sum allocated for the Singapore Civil Service Association is only $200 per month, it is necessary for us to see that it is well spent. My fear is that the Association will not utilise such allocation to expand itself to serve the deserving civil servants for whom it is supposed to cater. As the Association functions today, it caters only for a small group of civil servants who are regular patrons of the Association. The vast majority of civil servants do not even know of the existence of the Association and the facilities offered by it. I feel, therefore, that the Minister in charge of such associations should take a keener interest in this Association and other clubs catering for the needs of our civil servants in order to ensure the wider participation of Government employees in sports and other recreational activities. It may also be necessary to extend token grants to various sports and recreational clubs of other departments.

Sir, until the Member for Telok Blangah raised this question, I too did not know of the existence of this Association. However, like all matters connected with the civil service, this provision has a history. In this instance, it goes back to before World War II. Before World War II, there was a canteen in Empress Place and this Association apparently was either the owner or the landlord of this canteen and it received from the hawkers, or whoever operated there, an income of $200 a month. This canteen was demolished and the Association lost this income. The Government, therefore, makes up for this loss of income. I assume that Government took over the land where the canteen was situated. Whether the Association is well run or not and whether it deserves this sum - these are not matters for me to express an opinion on. But since this is related to some loss of income, it does not follow that other associations - such as associations of doctors, clerks, telephone operators or office boys - are entitled to any allowance from Government.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Sim Boon Woo -

Mr Sim, amendment (3).

I am not moving, Sir.

Mr N. Govindasamy, amendment (4).

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0403 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2125*. (* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Lim Cheng Lock) Sir, on 15th January, 1965, the National Trades Union Congress, the Singapore Manufacturers' Association and the Singapore Employers Federation drew up a Charter for Industrial Progress in Singapore. This Charter and a Joint Declaration made by the three organisations was witnessed by the Minister for Finance and the then Minister for Labour. The National Trades Union Congress and the Singapore Employers Federation recognised that, in order to overcome the initial difficulties of our industrialisation programme, the partners in industry, namely, the workers, employers and the Government, must co-operate with one another and pool their efforts together so as to achieve a continuing increase in productivity and output in all industrial enterprises. It was also accepted by the three partners that higher productivity should result in better wages and working conditions, lower prices for consumer goods, continuing expansion of production, capacity and full employment. It was felt that, in order to translate the Charter for Industrial Progress subscribed to by the Employers Federation and the National Trades Union Congress into concrete action which can produce practical results, a Productivity Code of Practice was also drawn up. The Productivity Code of Practice subscribed to by the Singapore Employers Federation and the National Trades Union Congress provides for the establishment of joint Productivity Consultative Councils in industrial establishments employing more than 50 workers. It was felt that the implementation of this Productivity Code of Practice will require considerable promotional effort as well as technical assistance, especially in the application of work study, quality control, cost analysis and other modern industrial engineering techniques. To assist in these purposes, the Singapore National Productivity Centre with an advisory board on which workers, employers and the Government are equally represented was established. Incidentally, Sir, the National Productivity Centre in Singapore is the only productivity organisation in this region which was established as a result of trade union initiation. Since the inception of the National Productivity Centre, it has made some, but not substantial, achievements in its promotional effort of setting up Joint Productivity Consultative Councils in the various industries in Singapore. In this respect, I can safely say that the National Productivity Centre has failed in instilling the need and importance of forming Joint Productivity Consultative Councils in all our industries. The National Productivity Centre organises a number of courses in work study, job evaluation and incentives, management techniques, production planning control, office management methods, workers' education and so on. To a limited extent, it provides advisory services. I must express the gratitude of the N.T.U.C. for the co-operation of the National Productivity Centre in organising similar courses for trade union officials affiliated to the N.T.U.C. The trade union movement is also grateful to the National Productivity Centre for the advice we get sometimes. It is, however, to be regretted that the Centre has either failed or has not attempted to convince the employers of the need to set up joint consultative machinery between workers and employers for the purpose of facilitating greater cooperation and promoting productivity. In other words, the training courses have not been matched with practical schemes for putting into practice the principles taught in the courses. Other than the training courses, the National Productivity Centre seems to be preoccupied with such matters as industrial relations, the recruitment of staff for industries, assisting the employers in industrial training programmes, etc., matters which strictly are not related to productivity. The National Productivity Centre seems to have forgotten the fundamental purpose for which it was set up. Certainly it was not set up for the purpose of recruiting workers or assisting in the training of workers for industries. The National Productivity Centre has an Advisory Council consisting of representatives from workers, employers and the Government. This Council was set up in December 1967, and I shall be grateful if the Minister in charge can enlighten this House on the number of times that the Council has met to advise the National Productivity Centre. Sir, I raise this question because my organisation is also represented in the Council and I am told that the Advisory Council exists only in name and it has never been convened to advise the National Productivity Centre. Also in 1968, an elaborate constitution of Works Councils was drawn up with appropriate comments and suggestions from the trade unions and the employers' organisations. I fear that the model constitution of Works Councils still remains a model. I would also like to know from the Minister how many industries in Singapore have been assisted by the N.P.C. to form productivity councils or Works Councils. 5.30 p.m. It is my hope that from now onwards, the N.P.C. will be fully responsible for promoting and co-ordinating the productivity movement in the Republic. It should then be able to ensure the proper implementation of the Productivity Code of Practice. It is also to be hoped that it will utilise the Advisory Council that has been set up to keep the N.P.C. in contact with the organisations which it is supposed to serve. At the moment, we have only one I.L.O. expert attached to the Centre, when at one time we had three for helping in the projects organised by the Centre. We understand that under the United Nations Development Programme, a special fund project for the expansion of the Centre has been approved and that more equipment and experts will be made available to increase and expand the activities of the Centre. I hope, with their help, the Centre will serve the purpose for which it was set up.

Mr Speaker, Sir, when I sent in this amendment, I was trying to seek some information from the Minister regarding the work and progress of the National Productivity Centre. So much emphasis is being placed on higher productivity these days. In fact, the Member for Telok Blangah has provided me with some useful information. As far as I can gather, the only report on the work and progress of the National Productivity Centre was a short statement in the annual report of the Economic Development Board for the year ending 1967. I would like to find out from the Minister, as this sum of $663,000 for the Centre is the first time that it appears in the Estimates, whether the Director of the National Productivity Centre will present to Parliament an annual report of its activities for each year or will it be included in the annual report of the E.D.B.

To answer the Member for Kampong Kapor first. I intend to establish the National Productivity Centre as an autonomous organisation, independent of the Economic Development Board. I think the past inadequacies of the N.P.C. were due to the fact that it was part of the Economic Development Board; staff were appointed by the E.D.B. and were responsible to it. Since the E.D.B. was interested more in promotion - getting in touch with potential investors and seeing that they start something here - than in follow-up work such as maintenance of efficiency in industries in Singapore, the result has been neglect by the E.D.B. of N.P.C. activities. There has been clear evidence that the N.P.C. has suffered from such neglect. Therefore, I propose that the N.P.C. be established as an organisation independent of the E.D.B. How and in what form the N.P.C. will be reorganised remains to be seen. There is in Singapore an expert in the field of management consultants, sent by the United Nations, whose job it is to evaluate in some depth the working of the N.P.C. and its future organisation structure. As a result of this, no doubt something useful will be done. I think I can best illustrate the difficulties and handicaps suffered by the N.P.C. by giving an account of actual assignments which, to my knowledge, the N.P.C. undertook. These were assignments commissioned by me. I asked the N.P.C. to do a study of systems of baggage handling at the airport to see where the hold-up was, and how matters could be improved. The N.P.C. has quite a talented team of engineers and it is a pity that these talented young men and women are wasting their time because of absence of proper guidance of leadership. But anyway they did the study of baggage handling in the airport. I thought it an excellent study, and so did the authorities concerned, and they are implementing the recommendations of the N.P.C. with the result that there has been a marked improvement in the rate at which passengers are being handled at the passenger terminals through all the formalities of customs, immigration, health and so on. Of course, this is a continuing programme of work. The second assignment which the N.P.C. undertook was to study systems of wage incentives in the Jurong Abattoir, which was established by Government at great cost with technical assistance from Danish Government. It is under the charge of my colleague, the Minister for Law and National Development. The N.P.C. productivity study was sent to the appropriate department, in this case the Primary Production Department. The Director of Primary Production was not convinced that the recommendations had any value. Whether he is right or the N.P.C. is right, I do not know. It is not for me to say. But in this instance the work proved negative. Whether it is that the recommendations were unrealistic or whether it is that the Director could not understand the recommendations is something on which I would not comment, but it illustrates the difficulties under which the staff of the N.P.C. have to work. First, the employer or the industrialist or whosoever it is has a problem, must believe it can be solved by the application of time and motion study or whatever remedy the N.P.C. staff are capable of working out. If the employer, or the owner, or the industrialist, does not believe that the N.P.C. can make such a contribution, then he will not make use of these services. Since quite a number of our industries are small-scale industries where capital is rather scarce, and where the owner or the industrialist improvises as best he can, clearly there are limits to which the services of the National Productivity Centre can be put. This again helps to explain the reluctance of employers to use these services. Maybe the employers are wrong, or maybe the employers are old-fashioned or ignorant. Or it may be that in most instances the N.P.C. has very little to offer and that employers either solve the problems with their own staff or engage experts to help them. If that is so, we probably have to find a different role for the National Productivity Centre. As the Member for Telok Blangah has said, a major effort is being mounted through the United Nations Development Programme special fund project to improve the staff and expand the scope of services of the N.P.C. We hope that they will succeed. I am sure the N.T.U.C. will offer its unstinting support to the N.P.C., because if we could improve production systems in our industry, then both the employer and the worker stand a lot to gain from it. More than this I cannot say, other than that my Ministry and I are placing a lot of importance and emphasis on the future activities of the National Productivity Centre.

Mr Speaker. Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0403 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2126*. (* The same amendment also stood in the name of Mr Lim Cheng Lock) Sir, with this amendment. I wish to seek clarification on the set-up of the Engineering Industries Development Agency for which a sum of $6.1 million is to be voted. Sir, the setting up of this Engineering Industries Development Agency, in fact, should have been thought of earlier, but, nevertheless, it is not too late. This, I can envisage, will certainly help our local engineering industries, which are comparatively small in scale, to expand. My questions for the Minister are as follows: (a) When and where will this Engineering Industries Development Agency be set up? (h) Is the Agency to be run as a public corporation or as a statutory body? (c) What type of engineering industries does the Agency intend to promote (d) Is the manufacture of small electric motors which are in great demand by our local factories among one of the industries the Agency intends to promote? May the Minister kindly supply this House with more details?

I am also trying to find out from the Minister what are the functions of this Engineering Industries Development Agency.

The Engineering Industries Development Agency was formally established in April 1968. It consists of a conglomeration of workshops and various training centres which the E D.B. set up since the early 1960s. Like Topsy, this work centre just grew and grew, and eventually the E.D.B. found that they had something like six centres. First, there is the Metal Industries Development Centre, which concentrates on metal engineering services. Then there is the Prototype Production and Training Centre. This is the result of a gift of machine tools donated by the Japanese Government. Then there is the Electro-Mechanical Training Centre. I cannot remember who donated this equipment. I think it is the French Government. Then there is the Electro-Chemical Engineering Centre. I am not quite sure what it deals with, but they dip metals into chemicals. Then there is the Woodworking Industries Development Centre. Finally there is the Precision Engineering Development Centre. These six workshops combine together under a loose organisation called the Engineering Industries Development Agency. 5.45 p.m. As far as I can see, everybody works with tremendous enthusiasm and energy. But I get the impression that there is a distinct lack of co-ordination among the six centres in the absence of any clear definition of the role that they will play in our industrialisation programme. So the process of tightening the organisation and spelling out the roles and functions of these different units has been going on in my Ministry for a long time. We have not reached a final solution yet. Roughly these workshops do two things. First, they train people in certain skills, whether it is in machine tools, in woodworking, in chemical treatment of metals, or in fine engineering. But whatever it is, they train people. They recruit students or employees who are willing to upgrade their skills, and train them for six months to a year, depending on the course and the field of specializsation. That is one function - training. Second, they produce components for the local industry, ie., metal parts and so on. I believe they even tried to make simple machine tools for the Technical Department of the Ministry of Education. I do not know if the Technical Department bought these machine tools. Nevertheless this is the sort of work they do. As I said, a lot of energy goes into this. These centres are quite active and busy, particularly the Precision Engineering Development Centre which is going up in Jurong. This development centre is quite impressive. They are spending a sizable sum of money, as a result of which I am told that some industries will be established in Singapore to turn out products that require precise engineering, such as micrometer gauges and possibly certain types of technical instruments. That is what they do, and this is the way they are doing it, a bit haphazard no doubt. But the organisation will be tightened, and I think we will get better results and better value for money in future.

I beg leave to withdraw, Sir. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0403 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2127. Sir, subhead 2127 is an item calling for a sum of $ 1� million for Industrial Training. In the explanatory notes provided in the Memorandum on the Estimates, this item is explained as a subvention to an agency. There is also a reference in the Memorandum on the Development Estimates that $ 1� million is a subvention for the training of Sembawang Shipyard technical staff. I would ask the Minister whether these two items are the same. If so, what is the significance of the subsidy to be provided only for Sembawang Shipyard employees?

Sir, they are really two different items. The subsidy for Sembawang Shipyard is really meant to retrain employees of the former British Naval Dockyard, now known as Sembawang Shipyard, for other useful work. Subhead 2127 is concerned with the training programmed for the Jurong shipbuilders, the company which will build ocean-going freighters in Singapore. As Members will know, we do not build big ships in Singapore. We only build ships of a few hundred tons - water-boats, tugs, and so on. So if we want to go into the big league and produce ocean-going vessels, we have to train the neccessary skills. This is being done in conjunction with the Ishikawajima-Harima Heavy Industries, or I.H.I. for short. We now have 249 of our citizens under training in Japan. Next year we will send another 250. This money is to pay for the cost of such training.

Mr Speaker, Sir I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0403 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2202. Sir, this subhead is entitled "Contribution towards the Students' Gift Accounts of P.O.S.B.", i.e., the Post Office Savings Bank. Sometime ago the Minister for Communications disclosed that Government was trying to encourage our students to save by saving with the P.O.S.B. This is, I think, a move in the right direction - encouraging children to start saving when they are young. Sir, I wonder if the Minister would care to enlighten this House by answering a few questions. First, how much savings have been collected from students last year, and how many accounts have been opened? Second, how long does his Ministry intend to continue contributing towards such gift accounts? Third, as at last year, what is the percentage of the number of savings accounts opened as against the total school population?

Mr Speaker, Sir, in order to give an adequate reply to the Member for Punggol, it may be neccessary for me to state that this question of postal savings in schools has to be divided into two sections, although the point he has raised is in respect of gift accounts. so I will try to give the first section for his edification. We started a campaign for schools' savings beginning in January 1969. With the full co-operation of the Ministry of Education, that is to say, officials, principals and teachers, we were able to get 486 out of 511 schools, or 95 per cent, to participate in the savings campaign. More that 144,000 students opened savings accounts, and this represents 28 per cent of the total school population. which exceeds half a million. The amount saved was more than $1.2 million, a very significant sum. The only people who do grumble are the hawkers in the school tuckshops, because this was the sum of money they did not get, but is nicely tucked away in our Savings Bank. This particular subhead brought up by the Member refers to special savings gift accounts for Secondary I students in particular. This is what you call a gift account. If a Secondary I student has a minimum sum of $5 in his P.O.S.B. account, then Government will donate $5 to make it $10. But there is a little catch here. It is not possible for the student to withdraw the $10 the next day and so have a good time with it. It has to be kept in the Savings Bank for the next five years. Of course, there will be the four per cent interest credited to his account. The idea is to keep it in cold storage for five years, so that when he leaves secondary school, he will then have $10 plus the four per cent interest accumulated for the last five years. I am afraid this campaign did not quite succeed during the course of last year. For the last 14� months, that is to say, from January 1969 to the middle of March 1970, there were only 4,290 accounts, and the sum contributed by Government was $5 times this number, which is $21,450. This year we hope to step up the campaign to encourage more of our Secondary I students to save. As you can see, we have a provision of $156,000 for this year. I have indicated just now that we have handed out only $21,450. But I think that, with a little extra effort this year, we might be able to utilise fully this provision of $156,000.

Sir, I thank the Minister for his replies to my questions, but I have supplementary questions to ask. Sir, he mentioned that gift accounts are only meant for Secondary I students. Can I suggest to him that we accord this gift account to students in primary schools also? The reason is that for primary school students, there is a course of six years, whereas for those in secondary schools there is a course of only four years, with another two years in the upper secondary. Why cannot we induce children to start saving in the Post Office Savings Bank right from the moment they enter school? In this way, not only will much more savings be collected, but the children will also benefit with a gift of an extra $5. Will he consider this suggestion> 6.00 p.m.

I think the Member's suggestions are very interesting. There is an advisory committee which advises me on these matters. These suggestions will be put to them for their recommendation. I will give them favourable consideration provided my colleague, the Minister for Finance, is prepared to support me on this.

Sir, the Minister has mentioned that only $21,000 was paid out last year although there was a provision of $281,250. In other words, only nine per cent of the provision was paid out. We have plenty of money under this provision. And since my suggestion is an interesting one, why not make it a constructive one?

Sir, the Member is calculating only one aspect of the problem. Four thousand students in Secondary I classes have started these accounts. This represents a little over 10 per cent of the students involved. We have figures from the Ministry of Education which indicate that the number of students entering Secondary I classes in 1970 is 39,000. For last year it was 45,000 students. If the scheme is thrown open to primary school students, then I think the figure will be hundreds of thousands over the years.

Sir, I thank the Minister for his patience and replies. I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0403 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2251. Sir, I feel that the time has come for us to review the policy and functions of the People's Association and the manner in which such policy and functions are being implemented. I feel that lethargy has set in among the officers and staff of the People's Association Headquarters. The community centres in Singapore have done a wonderful job and are continuing to do so. However, I feel that the headquarters of these community centres, that is, the People's Association, is not doing as much as it can do at the moment. It appears that the objective of the People's Association recently has been only to put up shows of one type or another in order to create the impression that it is active or to create a public image for itself. It has not undertaken any project for mass participation. The community centre staff are left to fend for themselves in many community centres. They do not receive much guidance, if any, from the specialist sections in the People's Association, such as the Cultural Section, the Sports Section, etc. The Specialist Professional Units do not offer any guidance or assistance to the community centre staff. The Cultural Section is only interested in organising cultural shows at the People's Association level, but not in helping the community centres with their expertise and experience, with the result that the community centres do not organise cultural activities of their own. The same can be said for the Sports Section. Many community centres are interested in, say, the coaching of basketball. It is possible for the People's Association to organise coaching sessions for a number of centres whose residents may be interested in the game. What happens now, I am told, is that the community centre is expected to organise the coaching on its own and that the People's Association pays for the fees of the coach, irrespective of whether he coaches 10 persons or 30 persons in basketball. If properly organised, money can be saved by combining training and coaching sessions for a number of centres which can be conveniently grouped together. Sir, I myself have seen community centre staff not doing as much as they can do in a number of community centres. They have been criticised for their lack of initiative, indifference, idleness and arrogance by one of their supervisors, as reported in the People's Association news bulletin recently. May I inquire whether this warning given by the supervisor has resulted in any improvement of performance or discipline, or whether the People's Association has taken any steps to improve the situation and, if so, what are the steps taken? I sincerely hope that the Association has not taken the easy way out by forgetting the whole matter. Let us now come to the establishment of community centres, a matter which certainly illustrates another area of lethargy on the part of the People's. Association. Sir, the islanders of Pulau Blakang Mati were promised a community centre by the People's Association about four years ago. A site was selected and marked out for the building of this community centre. I believe tenders were also called for the construction of the centre. However, for one reason or another, to date this community centre has not been built, In 1968 when I was elected Member of Parliament for Telok Blangah, which included Pulau Blakang Mati, I raised the question of a community centre for the island. I was told that no capital outlay involving large sums of money could be approved for this purpose However, with much difficulty I was able to persuade the Bases Economic Conversion Department to release a building, centrally located, for use as a community centre for the island. Two families who occupied this building were persuaded to move out and preparatory work for the conversion of this building into a community centre commenced .I believe the Director of the People's Association and other senior staff visited the site a few times. Tenders were called for. From the activities that went on, the islanders this time were hopeful that at last they were going to have a community centre. However, the last official communication I had from the People's Association regarding the community centre was on 5th June. 1969, when the People's Association requested the Public Works Department to call for tenders. Subsequently, I made numerous inquiries and I was told that the cost of conversion of the building for a community centre would be more than $4,000 and that the People's Association had only approved $4,000. Sir, I had on numerous occasions spoken to the officials of the People's Association, informing them of the special need for a community centre at Pulau Blakang Mati and that a community centre could be started with even less than $4,000 approved for that purpose, since a building was available and work was partially completed. Sir, the People's Association was not impressed with my representation. The islanders are making a big joke of the proposed community centre for which, they have waited for the past five or six years. I believe the latest joke is that when one of the officials of the People's Association went to Pulau Blakang Mati to inspect the building and have a chat with some of the islanders, they shooed him off. Sir, can I be told once and for all whether the People's Association is going to build a community centre in Pulau Blakang Mati or not?

Mr Speaker, Sir, although the officials of the People's Association were not impressed by the Member for Telok Blangah, I can assure him that I am indeed very much impressed by the presentation of his case. First, I shall take up the second point which he has raised, namely, the question of a community centre at Pulau Blakang Mati. It is true that this question was raised about five years ago. But unfortunately at that time there was in the air the question of the British withdrawal and we did not know then how many people would be served by this community centre. When the matter was raised again by the Member, there was also the question of the accelerated British withdrawal, and lately there has been competing interest for the development of Pulau Blakang Mati by several Ministries, and up till today we do not know who will succeed in the end. Therefore, the question of how many residents there will be in Pulau Blakang Mati in the end is still left open. I think it is largely, for these reasons that the People's Association is unable to vote a large sum of money, to put up a building which might be used only temporarily. To come to the question of lethargy and the lack of efficiency among members of the staff of the People's Association. Alas, I must confess that for the, most part, his criticism is quite valid. I have been going to the People's Association twice monthly trying to pump some life into members of the staff. In fact, we have expanded so much and the same problem that faces the People's Association is also present in other Ministries in that we do not have sufficient capable persons to run an organisation of this nature. But I have taken remedial measures. If Members will remember, organising secretaries have to go through a course at the National Youth Leadership Training Institute in which leadership qualities are supposed to be instilled into them so that they would act as a catalyst for communal activities in the community centres. Sometime last year we reorganised the examination system in the National Youth Leadership Training Institute. Our observation of those who have passed and have been awarded diplomas after a three-year course in the National Youth Leadership Training Institute indicates that these people do have the theoretical knowledge of leading community movements or activities. But, unfortunately, in many cases they lack initiative, determination and willingness to work; or they lack the understanding to apply theory to practice. 6.15 p.m. Therefore, we have made a change. Whereas before passes were awarded solely on academic work, the present system is to award 50 per cent marks for knowledge of academic work, and 50 per cent for other qualities such as leadership qualities, honesty, application and initiative. So steps are being taken to see that those who will be appointed as organising secretaries of community centres - and among them ultimately we will have supervisors and the director - will be able to apply the theory which they have learnt to the work which will be allotted to them. On the question of coaching groups of people for sports and the new system whereby the People's Association will undertake to pay the fees for coaches engaged by the community centres themselves, this I think is largely because we have found great difficulty in getting suitable coaches direct, and also because of the difficulties we face in certain sports where the parental body requires affiliation to the People's Association before it would allow its coaches to be sent to the community centres. As a way out of this, I believe the People's Association decided that the community centres on their own could form a team and affiliate themselves to the parental association. Thus they would be able to get a coach. Mr Speaker, Sir, I am as much concerned with the efficiency of the People's Association as the Member for Telok Blangah is, and we have in hand some steps which we consider taking to tighten up the whole organisation. At the moment, I am faced with the problem of finding a director to the People's Association.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Mr Ho Kah Leong -

Amendment (9), Mr Ho Kah Leong.

I am not moving, Sir.

Amendment (10). Mr Conceicao.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0403 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2307. Sir, all that I want to know is whether the Government is satisfied that there is adequate provision for the education of our deaf children, as such education is peculiarly and specially necessitated by their condition. In my experience at the meet-the-people sessions, I have discovered that there may be some inadequacies in this provision. For that reason, I am bringing up this question because it seems to me that by making provision for the education of our deaf children, they will be less of a burden on society if they can look after themselves, if they can be self-reliant, or if they can even be productive. It would be interesting to find out what Government's opinion is and whether it might be a good idea for Government to take over entirely the business of education for young children retarded in this way.

Sir, in answer to the question by the Member for Katong, I think Government's contribution is enough. As you know. Sir, besides the $12,000 annual grant given by Government to the Singapore Association for the Deaf and Dumb, the Government also pays the salary of the nine teachers for the Oral Section, five instructors and one assistant instructor for the Science Section who are attached to the School for the Deaf in Mountbatten Road. The salaries of these teachers and instructors amounted to $85,508 in 1969 and were paid by the Social Welfare Department. Therefore, we can say that the approximate annual contribution by the Ministry to the School is $100,000. The School for the Deaf at Mountbatten Road is sited on a piece of state land with an area of 40,000 square feet. Recently, the Association has applied for the alienation of a further piece of land approximately l0,000 square feet adjoining the site of the existing school in order to build a vocational centre and workshop. This project has the support of the Ministry, and the Commissioner of Lands has written to the Association saying that his office is prepared to consider recommending the alienation of this land to the Association for a 30-year lease at an annual rent of $12 per annum, subject, of course, to planning approval. So far the Association has not submitted any application to the Chief Building Surveyor for such approval. Sir, I think the Association itself can carry on looking after the education of deaf children, and there is no question of Government taking over wholly the projects of the Association.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0403 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2352. Sir, the Minister for Finance has proposed to this House for approval a sum of $176,000 as contribution to the Public Utilities Board in order that it can carry out anti-pollution measures at Seletar Dam. I for one wholeheartedly welcome the Government's new policy of combating the growing menace of air and water pollution and wish to express my thanks to the Government for wasting no more time in tackling this problem. With urbanisation and industrialisation taking place at a rapid pace, and with irresponsible people disposing of garbage, faecal, trade and industrial waste in open grounds and water-ways, there are all the potentials of a water pollution problem. I hope no one will be complacent about it and treat the agitation for water conservation and pollution control as a passing whim. In regard to the measures the P.U.B. are proposing to take, can the Minister concerned, if he has knowledge, inform the House whether the measures are preventive in nature or measures to remove an existing pollution problem? As I believe that it is hard to get money out of the Minister for Finance unless he knows it is going to be usefully and profitably spent, can the Minister explain in more detail why he is proposing to give away this sum of $176,000 to the PUB? Is it to be used to pay for a development project as an anti-pollution measure, or is it going to be used for repair and maintenance of some equipment, or is it for some general expenses connected with the P.U.B. anti-pollution plan? Is this sum of $176,000 the total P.U.B, expenditure for anti-pollution measures, or is it only part of the P.U.B.'s expenditure on this item? I tried to get some idea of the problem and I searched the P.U.B. reports for some lead. There was a blank. Even the latest P.U.B. report does not mention any pollution problem. However, the brochure commemorating the opening of Seletar Reservoir last August probably points partly to the cause of the problem. In the page dealing with recreational facilities in the reservoir, it is suggested that boating, canoeing and fishing will be permissible. Even the P.U.B. staff has got a canoeing group. On the same page, there is a photograph of some Board members enjoying a boat trip, including the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Foreign Affairs when he was a member of the Public Utilities Board. Besides these facilities, other facilities like sports ground, playground and parks will be provided. Can the Minister clarify if the sum of $176,000 is for clearing up the pollution caused by activities at the reservoir? I think the P.U.B. has recognised the dangers of these activities and says, I quote from the brochure: 'The Board plans to allow boating, canoeing and fishing in the Reservoir with safeguards against water pollution.' I have no doubt that the Public Utilities Board, the Ministry of Health and other departments are doing everything possible to prevent the pollution of our drinking water at Seletar Reservoir and other reservoirs. The Ministry of Health Annual Report, 1967 (Paper Cmd. 1 of 1970) records that a survey was carried out at the Seletar Reservoir catchment area between April and July 1967 by the Public Health Division of the Ministry in collaboration with the P.U.B., the Survey and Primary Production Departments to look into the sources of pollution of streams in the catchment area, The same report in page 60 says that: 'Under the Seletar Water Scheme, designed to tap water from eight catchments, a survey was carried out to ascertain the number and sites of all houses in each catchment with a view to carrying out anti-pollution measures aimed at controlling and reducing the discharge of faecal matter into the streams. Contract specifications and drawings were prepared for the construction of about 3,000 water-seal latrines in the following year.' Sir, I presume this job was completed last year. In this case, what is the real problem that a sum of $176,000 is requested by the P.U.B. to carry out anti-pollution measures at Seletar Reservoir? In the financial year 1st April, 1970, to 31st March, 1971, it is stated in the Memorandum on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure of Singapore (Miscellaneous I of 1970) that there is an overall increase in the provision for the Public Health Division of a sum of $3.2 million. The Environmental Health Section gets an increase of $389,250 for the proper maintenance of catchment drains and an additional increase of $51, 280 for the employment of more daily-rated staff due to the expansion of environmental health service Mr Speaker, Sir, we have spent $28 million for the construction of Seletar Reservoir, and not only do we have a maximum supply of two months' drinking water, but we also face the danger of pollution by our own foolishness and inconsideration. I do hope the Minister can impress upon his Cabinet colleagues the need to carry out an intensive and continuous anti-pollution campaign. It is better to spend some time and money bringing to the attention of the people the dangers of pollution and the need to remove the potentials of pollution, than to spend huge sums of money later to eradicate pollution itself. 6.30 p.m.

Sir, the Member for Kallang had just one simple question to ask, and whilst asking this question he took the opportunity to tell everyone his own views about pollution. The facts are simple and, as the Member himself puts it, the Minister for Finance does not just dish out $176,000 to every Tom, Dick and Harry. The newly-constructed Seletar Reservoir impounds water not only from its own catchment area, which is a protected area, but also from eight neighbouring streams. They are Sembawang, Sembawang Kechil, Simpang Kiri, Bukit Mandai, Mandai, Mandai Kechil, Pang Sua and Peng Siang. Water from each of these eight streams is pumped into the reservoir. I say "pumped" because the streams are at a lower level than the reservoir, and in order to get the water in the streams up into the reservoir, pressure by way of pumps is used. The catchment area of these eight streams is about 8,000 acres and this area is completely unprotected and is inhabited by farmers and squatters. A considerable amount of vegetable farming and pig and poultry rearing is done. As a result, the water from these streams could be polluted, so that when Seletar Reservoir was constructed, we had to build 2,778 water-seal latrines and 2,297 cesspits. A total of 361 pigsties were resited and 692 pigsties demolished in the eight catchment areas. The pigsties could pollute the water in the reservoir. Hence the water-seal latrines and cess pits. The sum of $176,000 provided under subhead 2352 will meet 50 per cent of the cost of purchase of 16 galley emptiers which are needed to dislodge pig manure from the cesspits and dispose of it at the nearest sewerage treatment works. The other 50 per cent of the cost will be paid by the Public Utilities Board. Unless the cesspits are cleared from time to time, the manure will overflow into the streams. So this is a continuous maintenance problem called an anti-pollution measure. It has nothing to do with the Government pollution measures which we are thinking of now -- air pollution, water pollution and so on. This is pollution which has been in the farms in Seletar for many years. We build the reservoir and we use water from the streams. We therefore have to ensure that the water is clean. It may interest the Member for Kallang to know that these eight streams can supply on an average of two million gallons of water a day for Seletar Reservoir. These are only the eight streams. The water, of course, also goes into the main catchment area. It may interest the Member further to know that Seletar Reservoir has, during the last nine months, provided 4,000 million gallons of water for use in Singapore. The Member also raised the question of - 6.35 p.m.

Order. I am afraid it is "guillotine" time, Mr Barker.

I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The time allotted for Head 0403 having expired, the following amendments were not proceeded with: Mr Ng Kah Ting: (12) That the sum to be allocated for Head 0403 he reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2651. Mr Sim Boon Woo: Mr Ng Kah Ting: (13) That the sums to be allocated for Head 0403 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 2656. The sum of $27,072,580 for Head 0403 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0405 -

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0405 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001 Mr Speaker, Sir, the Customs and Excise Department is a very important department because it deals with foreigners coming into our country. Therefore, it has to set a good example of service and maintain a high standard of efficiency. Unfortunately, I have received unfavourable complaints against it. For example, some tourists complained that certain officials of the department were discourteous, arrogant and so on. This attitude is likely to generate a feeling of resentment in the tourists. If the officials in the department continue to behave in this manner, then it will not only affect adversely our expanding tourist industry, but it will also affect the economy of our country. This arrogance on the part of the officials is a matter of serious concern. Therefore, I hope the Minister will take steps to remedy the situation. Another point is this. Certain officials of the Customs and Excise section at Paya Lebar Airport are very inefficient. They are very slow and take their own sweet time in dealing with tourists, This also arouses a feeling of resentment in the tourists. We should try to improve the standards of courtesy and efficiency of customs officers so that the tourists will go back with a good impression of our country. This will help us in our efforts to promote tourism. So I hope the Minister will deal immediately with this matter and take the necessary steps to improve the standard of efficiency and courtesy of the Customs and Excise Department.

The duty of custom officers is to catch smugglers and, as such, it cannot be expected that they will rate very high in any popularity poll in Singapore. I would be greatly alarmed if customs officers are the most popular of the civil servants. However, if the Member for Sembawang has specific complaints of misconduct, I will be glad to hear them. I do not place much credence on general complaints, as it is in the nature of the work of customs officers that they have to be unpleasant to people. As regards slowness in dealing with tourists at Paya Lebar International Airport, I am afraid the Member for Sembawang is behind time. The customs officers used to take a lot of trouble to be conscientious about this, but the new policy is to clear passengers as quickly as possible and not to make checks unless they know that some disruptive or shady characters are in the plane. Records of passenger clearance are being kept by the Director of Civil Aviation, The average time the Customs take to clear a plane of 100 passengers is ten minutes. Therefore, there is no question that this is one of the fastest Customs in the world. Whether it is good or bad for Singapore, I do not know.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, if the Minister is happy with the efficiency of the Customs and Excise Department, I am very pleased. This is because it would be favourable to our country. We must deal with many countries in our efforts to promote tourism. Therefore, we must treat the tourists with great respect. Only in this way can our country earn more foreign currency. This will be beneficial to our economy, and it will not give our Minister for Finance too much trouble in getting sufficient revenue. However, since the Customs and Excise Department is under good control, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The sum of $6,683,850 for Head 0405 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0406 -

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0406 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*. (* The same amendment also stood in the.names of Mr Hwang Soo Jin and Mr N Govindasamy) Recently, revenue collection has increased tremendously. For example, our Property Tax estimate for next year will reach the figure of $114 million. This is the result of the prosperity we are enjoying now. On the other hand, it is also due to the Government increasing the rate of property tax. Unfortunately, the increased rate has affected both the rich and the poor. The burden of increased tax should fall on the rich as they can afford to pay. They live in luxurious bungalows and enjoy a high standard of living. It is unfair that the poor people living in, for example, the Sembawang area, Choa Chu Kang Constituency and Thomson Constituency and so on, have to pay the increased rate of property tax. In my constituency I have received several complaints from the people saying that their property tax has been doubled. For example, in a two-room flat, these people need to pay about $30 to $40 a year, but nowadays they have to pay something like $ 100 to $120 per year. This sort of measure is unfair. 6.45 p.m. Mr Speaker, Sir, very often we have been emphasising that we are a democratic socialist Government, and therefore we have a duty to look after the interests of the people, especially those belonging to the lower income group. The officials of the Income Tax Department should, therefore, understand the policy of the Government when they lay down the rates of tax that the people have to pay. They must sympathise with those whose income is limited, because it is already quite a task for them to support their families and they cannot afford to pay more tax. Those cases I have mentioned are quite commonly found in other rural areas including Choa Chu Kang, the constituency of the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Finance. I am sure he has received similar complaints. I hope the Minister will consider lowering the rate of property tax for these people. Although I agree that it is the duty of the Government to increase property tax for the development of the country, in point of fact, I think there are better ways of raising revenue. For example, the government knows of many cases of tax evasion. If it could concentrate on this field, I am sure the extra revenue collected will be quite considerable. Sir, I am very pleased to note that the Government has recently invited certain specialists from America to help us deal with tax evasion. This is indeed a very good move. I would like to know how the government proposes to implement the measures to prevent tax evasion, and how much extra revenue Government will be able to raise. I hope the Government will take steps to arrest these people. Another point is that the Property Tax Division does not accept payment of taxes which come to $2 or $3. Superficially this appears beneficial to the people in the rural areas whose taxes are usually low. But this is not equivalent to a tax exemption. It is only a temporary suspension of collection. This also reflects the laziness and irresponsibility of officials in this Division. For a few years now, these rural people have not been paying this tax, because when they went to pay, their payments were not accepted. But recently they received notice to pay up their tax arrears. They found that their rates have increased more than a hundred times. In other words, from $2 to $3 per year, their rates have been increased to $200 to $300. This is fantastic and most unreasonable. If the officials of the Property Tax Division had agreed to receive payment every year or once every three months, then these people would not have to pay such a large sum. I hope the Minister will carry out a very detailed investigation into this unreasonable situation.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I only wish to touch a comparatively minor aspect of the inland revenue, It concerns the implementation of the amendment to the Stamp Ordinance, passed by this House on the 15th October, 1969, to allow for payment of stamp duty on a number of legal documents by means of the postal franking machine. The amendment has passed into law now for some five months. I do not know how many applications have been received and approved, but I understand that a number of applicants have as yet not been granted the necessary licences. If I remember correctly, this particular amendment was introduced not only with a view to public convenience but also with a view to reducing the pressure on the Stamp Office. This was a step recommended by the Organisation and Methods Branch, following their investigations into the work of that Department. This being the case, I should have thought that the Commissioner would have been only too happy to grant the licences applied for, but the impression I have is that he does not seem to be too keen to grant licences.

Mr Speaker, Sir, in the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the last financial year, $500,000 was set aside under the heading of Special Expenditure for the setting up of the Anti Evasion Unit of the Income Tax Division, This year the same item has again been budgeted, but this time under "Personal Emoluments" of the Inland Revenue Department. It seems to me that it is not possible for the Unit to function within one year from the time it was set up, and my impression seems to be confirmed by the Minister in his speech in which he made reference to the recent establishment of the Unit and to the assistance of the American Inland Revenue officials. Sir, this amendment is moved with the intention of seeking further clarification from the Minister on the function of the Unit. Sir, as the Unit appears in the Estimates under the Property Tax Division, will the services of the Unit also be utilised by the Income Tax Division! Sir, human nature being what it is, everyone will try his best to evade income tax. It is common knowledge that a number of businessmen in Singapore make it a point to keep one, two, or even three sets of accounts for the purpose of facilitating evasion of income tax.

Mr Govindasamy, you are talking on subhead 1251, Anti Evasion Unit. We are now dealing with subhead 1001. We will come to the Anti Evasion Unit in due course.

Sir, I am talking generally on Inland Revenue and on the collection of income tax as well.

Very well. You may carry on.

Sir, the Income Tax Department is to be congratulated on collecting more money than they anticipated. I believe the revenue of the Income Tax Department was increased by $59.8 million. However, I feel there are areas in Singapore where stricter or more efficient methods of collecting tax can be adopted to further increase the revenue from income tax. Sir, in common with many other countries in Asia, Singapore has this phenomenon - that roadside hawkers in certain selected areas are making better business than even established restaurants. It will be interesting to know how many of these busy hawkers, catering for tourists as well as local people, pay income tax. Take, for instance, the many stallholders doing business opposite the Singapore Cold Storage in Orchard Road, Bugis Street, Hock Lam Street, Albert Street, etc. I am told that the average turnover per day for each stall in such areas is much higher than that in licensed restaurants. It will, therefore, be interesting to know how many of these hawkers do pay income tax. I am fully conscious of the difficulty that the Income Tax Department faces in getting proper tax returns from these stallholders. But with sufficient manpower, however, it may be possible to station an official near selected stalls to record the daily takings and to estimate the profits of the hawkers on the basis of such takings. There may be other methods which I am sure the American tax officials, being specialists in this field, will be able to suggest. The Anti Evasion Unit, if it functions properly, should be able to increase the income tax revenue much more than we have had this year, and the money spent on setting up this Unit would be well worth it.

Sir, the Members have raised two main points - property tax and the Anti Evasion Unit. At the risk of repetition when the other subhead comes up, I think I will deal them, with your permission, Sir, in some detail. Property tax is levied on the annual value of the property. If a landlord rents out a piece of property, then the annual value is the rent he collects from it. In that case, I assume the Member for Sembawang, whose concern is for poor people, will have no sympathy with the landlord, That must be so, because landlords are not poor people. The problem will arise when the person owns the house in which he lives. This is the trouble. How to value it? There has been an uproar lately because the property tax levied on owner-occupied residence has been increased 100 per cent and even, I am told, 250 per cent, They say the Department has been quite ruthless and rapacious. Of course, that is one way of looking at it. But from the Property Tax Department's point of view, they say the man is lucky to have got away so cheaply in the past, and that the present valuation is the right one. Now where the man lives in his own house, the valuation attached to that house is related to the rent that can be fetched for similar houses. Let us suppose the Member for Sembawang lives in his own house. The house next door, which is the same type of house, has been rented out for, say, $2,000 a year. Therefore, the Member's house should be assessed at $2,000 a year. It is quite straightforward. And if in the past his house has been assessed at $200 a year, it is only fair that it should now be assessed at $2,000 a year. What has happened is that the staff of the Department has been strengthened and will continue to be strengthened, so that the number of reassessments now being made is increasing, and more and more people are paying more tax which should have been paid years ago. So there was quite a howl about that. If they think that they have been unfairly treated, then they can, of course, appeal. It is quite strange that none of these people who grumble about high taxes have so far taken the legal redress available to them. About the Stamp Ordinance, the Member for Jalan Kayu asked how it is that, after we have done all this business of passing a new law to allow franking machines to be licensed, the people who asked for franking machines did not get a licence. I do not know the details, but I can only guess - either the Commissioner of Stamps has not got enough franking machines or these people are not -

Sir, can I just clarify one point? Dr Goh Keng Swee resumed his seat.

My point is this: I have come across instances where the people already have the machines. They applied for licences and have waited for five months now, and they have still not got any answer.

If the Member could let me have the details, I will inquire into this. This is a matter which I cannot answer off the cuff, as I do not know what the facts are. Now, on the Anti Evasion Unit. Last year it was put down in the budget as a block vote of $500,000, because at that time the Commissioner of Inland Revenue did not know the number of staff he needed and what their salary scales should be, and so on. Therefore, it was paid out of a block. 7.00 p.m. This year we know the scale of operations , the type of staff, the salaries needed to pay for them and therefore, the Anti Evasion unit appears as a separate unit under the Inland Revenue head. It is not part of the Property Tax Division. It is another division of the Inland Revenue Department. Now, how does it operate? The staff have to develop certain skills, it is not as easy as the Member for Sembawang has suggested. You cannot say. "So and so is evading tax." You then arrest him and put him in gaol. It cannot be done that way. You have to take them to court and prove that he has been evading tax. You have to provide evidence that he has been evading tax, otherwise the Judge will toss out the case. Therefore, the Anti Evasion Unit has the duty of collecting evidence to prove that such and such a taxpayer or such and such a company is evading tax. They do it in various ways, some of which are open and some are secret and confidential which I cannot discuss here. But I will discuss the open system of catching tax evaders. First they have to develop the skill in auditing books for tax assessment purposes. I am told this is quite a complicated technique and has to be learnt from people who have experience in such practices. In fact, the Anti Evasion Unit is slowly building up a staff from graduates of the Polytechnic who have obtained Accountancy degrees, University graduates in Business Administratration and law graduates and so on. They are trained to look for evidence of tax evasion in the account books which can sustain a prosecution in court. Having had the staff to collect such evidence, the Unit has to train them to develop skills in interrogation and finally in prosecuting the tax evaders in court. As I said, this is, so to speak, the above-the-counter method of catching tax evaders. It means getting trained staff and putting them through a rigorous training programme, both in Singapore and in the United States, in order to develop the skills. It is a long hard slog. There is no short-cut to it. We have just started this training with the assistance of employees of the American Inland Revenue Department. This work will keep on expanding, progressing and improving. I come now to the question of taxing hawkers. When you engage 20 investigating officers, including professional lawyers, accountant and so on, you are after the big fish. We know that some hawkers do make money and if we catch them we will probably get $500 a year tax from them. Members must remember that if a hawker is married with only two children, he has to have an income of at least $5,000 a year before he is liable to pay tax. If he has an income of $6,000 or $7,000 a year, you do not get more than $100 tax from him. So hounding hawkers in large numbers will be really a waste of money. What the Inland Revenue Department will do is to go for the big fish. I think in the course of years they will succeed. I am afraid the big tax evaders who do not believe that will find themselves not only landed with a whacking big tax assessment, but they may find themselves landed in prison. When that happens, I think people will be less willing to take the risk of dodging income tax.

(In Mandarin): I beg leave to withdraw my amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Madam Chan Choy Siong -

Sir, I am not moving. The following amendment stood in the names of Madam Chan Choy Siong, Mr Cheong Yuen Chee, Mr J. F. Conceicao, and Mr P. Selvadurai --

Sir, I am not moving.

Mr Selvadurai.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move. That the sum to be allocated for Head 0406 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1101. Mr Speaker, Sir, I am really concerned with the practice of assessing for income tax purposes, the annual values of owner-occupied dwellings even though the concession limit has now been mercifully raised to $6000. Income tax is really a tax on income and, as such, must we really persist in the practice of taxing notional income? Will the Minister also consider extending the property tax concession that is now made to owner-occupied dwellings to the entire island of Singapore, instead of confining it to owner-occupied dwellings in particular localities specified in the relevant Property Tax Orders?

Mr Speaker, Sir, the point I wanted to raise has already been made in an answer to the question raised by the Member for Thomson and so I am not raising it now.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the recent decision by the Government to reduce the rate of property tax in respect of owner-occupied Housing and Development Board flats is indeed a most welcome move. This move is another indication of Government's policy to support and encourage a property-owning democracy. The Government is also to be congratulated on resolving the anomalies in the rates of assessment for similar properties. The rectification of such anomalies greatly benefits the flat owners, the majority of whom are wage-earners. There is one point, however, to which I would like to draw the Minister's attention. That is the manner in which notices of assessment are issued. In most cases, such notices are served on flat owners several months after they have moved into the flats. In some instances after a period of more than one year. This inevitably gives rise to a situation where a flat owner is confronted with a property tax bill amounting to a few hundred dollars in respect of the property tax for the past several months or year. As you are aware, Mr Speaker, Sir, very few wage-earners can afford to pay such a huge bill in one lump sum. Even the Housing and Development Board is aware of this problem and the Minister for Law and National Development has now permitted the inclusion of legal fees, stamp duty, etc. into the housing loan so as to enable the purchaser of Housing Board flats to pay such fees by instalments Although the Property Tax Division has allowed flat owners to settle their arrears by monthly instalments, it imposes a fee of $5 for late payment by default. Such a fee adds insult to injury as the delay in payment was occasioned not by the default of the ratepayer but by the Property Tax Division through its failure to issue its advice on time. The explanation given was that that this fee is for the issue of demand notice and warrant in respect of tax outstanding which was not made known, until months after. If the Property Tax Division had been prompt in issuing assessment notices, such a situation would not have arisen. Mr Speaker, Sir, $5 is not a big sum for any flat owner to pay, but is it fair to penalise a person for not paying what he owes when he is not given the opportunity to know how much he is owing in the first instance, and then subsequently he is allowed to settle his arrears by monthly instalments? In order to avoid penalising the ratepayers unduly, may I respectfully suggest that the Property Tax Division issue notices of assessment to flat owners within a reasonable period of their occupying their flats? By ensuring that the estimated amount of tax payable is made known in time to the owner-occupiers, they can make provision to pay the tax before it is due. I am sure some arrangements can be made between the Property Tax Division and the Housing and Development Board offices to collect their keys to the flats. If the Minister can look into this matter urgently, the owner-occupiers of Housing and Development Board flats will have one unnecessary frustration less.

I did not quite get the point of the Member for Bukit Panjang. Why should we exempt from income tax without limit the annual values of owner-occupied dwellings? There is something -

Mr Speaker, Sir, it will not be a tax on income as such. It is a tax on notional income in so far as owner-occupied dwellings are concerned. In the event of the house being rented out to somebody else, then of course, you are deriving income from it. But so far as owner-occupied dwellings are concerned, there is no income at all. What you are really doing is to tax the notional income of the house for what it is worth if it is rented out in the open market. And beyond the limit of $6,000, you tax the owner for income tax purposes. I am being purely puristic; however, I think I am also looking in terms of people who have to pay this tax.

Mr Speaker, Sir, once you give the taxpayers certain concessions, you are just looking for trouble. At one time everybody was paying, even those with an annual value of less than $3,000, and there was not a murmur about the iniquity of this tax. I am afraid I cannot agree with the Member for Bukit Panjang. .As regards the limitation of concession to property tax to certain area, actually there is no such limitation. Properties all over Singapore are eligible for this exemption.

Sir, three orders made sometime in 1960 and 1961 and called the Property Tax Orders limit the areas within which owner-occupied houses must be located before this concession is given. I think the concession is 27 per cent for owner-occupied houses. It is the concession rate I am talking about.

Those are rates applicable to property tax and not to income tax.

I am referring to property tax.

Yes. Property tax varies from district to district. City districts carry 36 per cent property tax and others carry less for various reasons.

Sir, I think there is a basic distinction between owner-occupied premises and premises that are rented out. For rented-out premises a rate of 36 per cent is charged. For owner-occupied houses a concession is given. Now even this concession is restricted to particular areas of Singapore.

That is right.

I wonder if this concession can be extended to the whole island.

No, we cannot do this. This concession is to encourage people to buy Housing Board flats. I think that is the reason. I must press on. Time is getting short. The Member for Toa Payoh has said that the $5 fee for late payment is unreasonable, Actually people are supposed to pay property tax without any assessment notice. They know that every January and every June they have to pay. If they do not pay, then they have committed an offence and they have to pay $5 for the work of reminding them. It is also to encourage people to pay tax without prompting. He has a good proposal in that owners of Housing Board flats might as well pay property tax to the Housing Board in order to save them the trouble. Is that the proposal of the Member for Toa Payoh? 7.15 pm.

No, Sir, I agree that $5 is not a big sum. But unfortunately, the flat owner does not know the amount he is liable to pay until he receives the notice of assessment months later.

He just pays what he paid the last time unless he gets a notice to pay more.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn,

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0406 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1111. Sir, I just want to get some information from the Minister. There are two islands in my constituency - Pulau Ubin and Pulau Tekong Besar. Many plots of state land on these two islands were leased to farmers for about 20 or 30 years. At that time, they were valued at $6 per acre, After the expiry of the lease, they have been revalued at the fantastic sum of $72 per acre. Sir, I would like the Minister to enlighten this House on the reason for this fantastic increase?

I do not know whether the Member for Changi is referring to Land Office charges in respect of temporary occupation licences or --

That is right. Sir.

If they are temporary occupation licences, that is the responsibility of the Minister for Law and National Development. In fact, I would have thought that $72 per year would have been very cheap for an acre of land. If this friend of the Member for Changi thinks that the charges are too high and does not want the land. I am quite willing to take it off from him.

Mr Sim, would you to withdraw your amendment'?

No, Sir,

In that event, I will have to put the Question.

Question on the amendment put, and negatived.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0406 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1117. Sir, it is noted that there is an increase of 20 posts of Valuation Officers, an increase of almost 100 per cent. It is also noted that the number of Valuers has also been increased from 11 to 16, an increase of almost 50 per cent. In view of the latter increase, I would like to know from the Minister why it is necessary to increase the former by 100 per cent. Just now my colleague, the Member for Sembawang, spoke about the increase in property tax. Most probably the Minister is increasing the staff in order to collect more property tax.

Sir, the Member is quite right in his surmise. The object of the exercise is to collect more taxes.

I beg leave to withdraw. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0406 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1191*. (*The same amendment also stood in the name of Madam Chan Choy Siong.) Sir, in moving this amendment, I would like to inform the Minister concerned that no proper records are kept by the Radio and Television Licensing Section of people who have paid their Radio and T.V. licence fees. I have received many complaints. Even Members of this Houses as well as a Minister have had experience of this. Compound notices have been issued to licensees who have already paid their fees. If they ignore these notices, they will be served with a summons one month later. Sir, it would be embarrassing to the Government if these law-abiding citizens were to go to court and show the magistrate that they have paid their licence fees. We will also be blamed for not being efficient.

Mr Speaker, Sir, the Member for Changi has already brought up my point.

Sir, I am not quite clear what the point is. If the licensee has paid his fees and he receives a demand notice, then, of course, there is no trouble at all because he has paid up. Mistakes of this kind do happen because we have got something like 200,000 licensees who have to pay their fees every year. Sometimes there is a time lag between recording the payment and issuing the notices. I do not think this is a major problem.

Mr Sim, are you withdrawing the amendment?

No, Sir,

Question on the amendment put, and negatived. The following amendment stood in the names of Mr J. F. Conceicao and Mr P. Selvadurai -

Mr Conceicao, amendment (7).

Mr Speaker, Sir, the point that I wanted to raise has already been clarified by the Minister for Finance in his answer to a question raised by the Member for Telok Blangah under a different subhead. I am withdrawing the amendment, Sir.

Mr Selvadurai.

I withdraw as well, Sir. The sum of $5,373,150 for Head 0406 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0408 -

Madam Chan is not moving amendment (l)*. Mr Govindasamy.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0408 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*, Sir, from the Budget Speech by the Minister for Finance, it is noted that our entrepot trade as well as internal trade still plays an important role in the economy of our Republic. Petty traders as well as large-scale importers and exporters have played their part in the expansion of our economy. I feel, therefore, that every convenience and assistance given to them will in the end benefit the Republic. Thus, if the volume of their trade increases, the revenue will be proportionately increased. I believe much inconvenience has been caused to our importers and exporters in respect of issue of Inward and Outward Declarations, whether deliberately or otherwise. When a trader wants to import certain goods from abroad, in about three out of 10 cases, he has to go first to the Imports and Exports officer in the Trade Division located in Fullerton Building where I am told he has to get clearance from three different departments, namely, the Imports and Exports Office, the Statistics Division and the Customs Division. Having cleared with these three departments, if the goods to be imported involve customs import duty, he is then required to go to the Customs Office at Maxwell Road to get the clearance and then to go back to Fullerton Building for the necessary permits. In the event of any doubt arising as to whether import duty is involved or not in respect of the goods to be imported, he still has to go to Maxwell Road to get the necessary clearance from the Customs there before he is issued with the necessary permits ultimately at Fullerton Building. As this entails unnecessary difficulty and inconvenience, it may be asked whether it would be possible to amalgamate these two sections so that the traders are not shunted from Fullerton Building to Maxwell Road and then back to Fullerton Building for these permits. If these two departments come under one roof, it would, in my opinion, be much more efficient. It would involve better utilisation of manpower, minimise duplication of work and simplify the issue of Inward and Outward Permits. I am told that in most other countries Import and Export Permits are issued by the Customs authorities. Even in Singapore, the enforcement of Imports and Exports Declarations, the checking of the declarations, the payment of necessary duties, the examination of goods, etc., are done by the Customs authorities in the harbour, airport, etc. Even the issue of these declarations or permits outside office hours is done by the Customs. If such declarations or permits can be issued by the Customs outside office hours, I should like to know why the Customs authorities cannot issue the required permits during office hours. Whatever the reason is, the issue of the declarations would be simplified if it is done in one and the same building instead of different buildings, especially when they are located quite a distance from one another. 7.30 p.m.

Sir, the position is not really as bad as the Member makes it out to be. In most instances where goods are not dutiable, Customs officers are not involved and the importers need only go to Fullerton Building. Even where duty is involved, but the consignment is small or consists of personal effects, the Customs and Excise Department has stationed 13 officers in the Imports and Exports Office and can give the necessary clearance without the person having to go to the Customs and Excise Department. But where there is a substantial consignment of goods, and where it is necessary to check the importer's background, then the Customs officers will have to do the checking. However, this does not mean the importer goes to Fullerton Building and is then shunted to the Customs and Excise Department at Maxwell Road, If he is an efficient importer, he will know that he has to go to the Customs and Excise Department first, and when that is cleared he goes to Fullerton Building and the formalities end there. I agree that it will be a good thing to have these procedures in one building. However, neither Fullerton Building nor Customs House in Maxwell Road is big enough to house both of them. So until we get more money to have more massive Government offices, importers will have to put up with this minor inconvenience.

Sir, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment. Amendment, by leave, withdrawn. The following amendment stood in the name of Madam Chan Choy Siong: (2) That the total sum to be allocated for Head 0408 be reduced by $100.

Sir, I am not moving. The sum of $1,442,310 for Head 0408 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. Head 0501 -

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to move, That the sum to be allocated for Head 0501 be reduced by $10 in respect of subhead 1001*. (* The same amendment also stood in the names of Mr Teong Eng Siong, Mr, P.Govindaswamy and Mr N. Govindasamy.). Mr Speaker, Sir, I want to ask the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Minister for Labour, particularly, with regard to the passage of a labour law last year in this House, whether the Government has carried out a review of this Ordinance and the consequent of implementing it, and what benefits have accrued to both management and labour. I have the feeling that, as far as management is concerned, they have been able to make use of this amended law for their own purposes. On the other hand, what we have been able to see that our working class has suffered --

Madam Chan, we are now on the amendment to subhead 1001, i.e., the Minister for Foreign Affairs.

Yes, but the Minister for Foreign Affairs is also the Minister for Labour.

But the Ministry of Labour comes under a different head of expenditure, Madam Chan,

Sir, from the head of expenditure, we can put in an amendment to the subhead code for the Minister to enable us to speak

No, not really. The Minister for Labour himself has a subhead 1001. You will be talking on this later on, as you have put in an amendment under this head.

All right, Sir.

(In Mandarin): Mr Speaker, Sir, although ours is a small country, we have been participating positively in international affairs since independence. In the United Nations, our representatives have spoken very frankly on international problems, and their speeches have been heeded by the other nations. This shows that ours is a youthful but progressive country and that we are on an equal footing with other big countries on foreign affairs. The main characteristics of our foreign policy are those of neutrality and non-alignment. We want to be friends with all countries, especially our neighbouring countries. If we want to have very close co-operation with these countries, we must continue with this policy of neutrality. This is a very enlightened policy. We will become the Switzerland of Asia if we adopt this policy of neutrality. This will be beneficial to both the country and the people. With the advancement in science and the improvement of communications, the world has shrunk. This is conducive to regional co-operation. Three years ago a regional association called the Association of South-east Asian Nations was formed. Through this association we have been co-operating closely with neighbouring countries in the spheres of education, culture, trade and so on. With regard to A.S.E.A.N., I believe our people are very concerned with whether it will bring benefit to our country. I would like the Minister concerned to enlighten this House on whether A.S.E.A.N., ever since its inception, has made any contribution to regional co-operation, and what its schemes are. What does it propose to do and what benefits have we enjoyed from A.S.E.A.N.? Each year we make some contribution to it, and therefore we must get some benefit in return. Secondly, I would like to know whether our representatives have been taking an active part in all the agencies of the United Nations and what are our contributions to them. What is our foreign policy for the current year? In which countries are we going to set up our foreign missions in order to maintain closer relations with them?

Mr Speaker, Sir, it is noted that the allowances given to our foreign diplomats and their staff consist of an overseas allowance, a special allowance, an entertainment allowance, a special make-up allowance and a children's allowance. I do not know what "special make-up allowance" is, but anyway there is no mention of housing allowances. If housing allowances are included in the other allowances, I would like to know if these allowances are sufficient to enable our diplomats to have decent houses in keeping with their status. I would also like to know if the diplomats on their return to Singapore after a tour of duty are provided with quarters until they are able to find their own accommodation,

Why should they not!

I feel that these considerations are important in order to attract more people for foreign service. Will the Minister look into this matter of providing quarters for our diplomats on their return to Singapore until they are able to find their own accommodation?

Mr Speaker, Sir, I can partially answer the question of housing raised by my namesake, the Member for Anson. Sir, quite recently I have visited some of our missions abroad, and I must, at the outset, pay a tribute to our ambassadors who, working under difficult conditions, yet do a very good job of what they have been sent out there to do. I believe that last year we did send an advance party of officials from the Ministry of Finance to countries where we intend to set up embassies, The idea of sending an advance party to set up an embassy is most admirable, but the question is how did they do their job? 7.45 p.m. This leaves much to be desired, because I have been to one of our missions where I found that the advance party had been there for more than a month. They had informed the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that all was well and that the Ambassador and his staff could come and set up the office. However, even details of equipment for the office were not looked after, and the embassy had to work under difficult conditions, sometimes without even a typewriter. Sir, I think the Ministry should be careful in setting up embassies, especially before sending our Ambassadors and some of our officials abroad. Sir, there are other aspects where a lot of improvement can be made. One is that in the country that I am referring to, the advance party went ahead and rented a few houses for our officials. But the Ministry was not yet in a position to send the required number of officials to this embassy. As a result, the Foreign Ministry had to pay rents for these houses which were not occupied for a considerable number of months. The other point that I want to take up is the question of furniture and other necessary fittings for the houses of Ambassadors and officials, as well as for the embassy itself. In many instances, I believe the cost of hiring these fittings is very expensive in a number of foreign countries. It will be cheaper if they buy the required furniture and equipment before setting up the embassies. In respect of houses for Ambassadors, some of them may be located in proper diplomatic enclaves in these countries, but they should be such that the Ambassador would be able to entertain other Ambassadors in that country. If the houses are small, then the problem of entertaining becomes very difficult. Since this year's vote for the Foreign Ministry has been increased. I hope that more care will be taken in setting up embassies abroad.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I am happy to note that, as we have not come to the Moment of interruption, I can enjoy some free time to speak on foreign affairs. No doubt just now I have missed the opportunity to speak on two of my amendments when we reached "guillotine" time. But the second part of it pertaining to A.S.E.A.N. has already been dealt with by the Member for Sembawang. So on this amendment to cut the Minister's salary by $10, I would like to join the crowd by airing my views on these two points. Sir, firstly, we have to make annual contributions to international organisations. There are organisations like the United Nations under which you have the United Nations Development Programme, etc. I would like the Minister to give this House an idea of how much Singapore has to contribute to each of these international organisations. The other point is the A.S.E.A.N. set-up. A.S.E.A.N. was set up a few years ago, and over the last few years the Foreign Ministers of member countries have been getting together and Standing Committees have been formed. A lot of discussion and consultation has been going on, and, as a result, we are asked today to vote for a sum of no less than $3 million towards the A.S.E.A.N. Fund. Sir, in this respect, I would be grateful if the Minister for Foreign Affairs would care to elaborate on how and in what form the $3.08 million would be utilised towards the A.S.E.A.N. Fund. Where is the base of operations, in other words, whether it is in Singapore, Kuala Lumpur, or Djakarta? And how many of its representatives will be grouped together in order to set up this central body to control the membership subscriptions towards the A.S.E.A.N. fund? My last point is a follow-up of what my colleague, the Member for Telok Blangah, has just raised. This concerns our establishment of missions overseas. I have had the opportunity to visit some of our foreign missions, the chanceries, and also the residences of our Ambassadors. My point is this: we send our Ambassadors to represent Singapore. The image of Singapore must, therefore, be well projected, and one of the ways of doing so is to see that every care and consideration - I am not saying that no care has been taken - should be given towards the setting up of these chanceries or getting adequate residences for our Ambassadors. There is also another important point that we should remember: the question of staff. In the course of my visits to quite a number of these foreign missions, I have noticed that our home-based staff are small in number, and the locally recruited staff are equally small. Sir, I am going to reach the Moment of interruption because I want the Minister to give his answers tomorrow. Sir, the staff recruitment in a mission is very important in two respects. Let us say in a mission we have staff from the Ambassador downwards, maybe the Counsellor, then the First Secretary, the Second Secretary, a general clerical officer, and some locally recruited staff. I am of the opinion that in quite a number of missions there is much work to be done, and the nature of the work is such that sometimes it has to be done by home-based staff. Let us take, as an illustration, our Permanent Mission to the United Nations, New York. Looking at the staffing position, we have four locally recruited staff. But we do not know exactly the home staffing position. I can make a guess. There is so much work to be done and some of this work should he handled by home-based staff. In this respect, I am happy to note that there was a post of Confidential Secretary in our High Commission in London, and I have brought this matter up today. You can see that this post has got a little abbreviation, "pa", which means that the post has been abolished. This goes to show that every care must be taken in recruiting staff. I shall cover the other details at the proper time as I have put in my amendments to them. Sir, I have brought up the question of extra officers to he recruited for these various overseas missions, Invariably in some missions we have only the First Secretary and an Attache, and no Second or Third Secretary. These two posts of Second and Third Secretaries are important. Their duties will have to be specially defined so that they will know what to do. They will also take a load off the First Secretary. In some cases you will notice that we have Counsellors in the various missions. I fully agree that we should have Counsellors, but they are so few in number. Will the Ministry of Foreign Affairs not consider recruiting suitable officers to fill such posts? Counsellors do a variety of work. No doubt they are only termed "Counsellors", but they are important. I hope the Minister for Foreign Affairs will consider these suggestions and ensure that in the next or future Budget Estimates, there will be provision for more officers, especially from home. Sir, there is also the question of their salaries. I am told that these are based on the salary scales here, but when they go overseas they are entitled to an overseas allowance. But the salaries in terms of overseas postings are - 8.00 p.m.

Order. Moment of interruption. Thereupon Mr Speaker left the Chair of the Committee and took the Chair of the House.

Mr Speaker, Sir, I beg to report that the Committee of Supply has made progress on the Estimates of Expenditure for the financial year 1st April, 1970, to 31st March, 1971, and ask leave to sit again tomorrow.

So be it.

Resolved, "That the House do now adjourn." -[ Mr Rajaratnam.] Adjourned accordingly at One minute past Eight o'clock p.m.

Thursday, 19th March, 1970

asked the Minister for Health if he can supply figures for 1967 to 1969 of (i) the number of cases of accidents in the home from various causes, recorded at Government hospitals and clinics, and how many involved adults; (ii) the number of fatalities resulting therefrom, and how many were of adults; and (iii) the estimated number of unreported cases of accidents in the home.

Figures on the number of cases of accidents in the home for 1967 are not available as compilation of statistics on home accidents was started only in October 1968, The number of accidents in the home from various cases, recorded at Government hospitals for items (i) and (ii) are given in the attached* Appendices A and B. (* See Cols. 765-70.) Appendix A to Written Answer to Questions (Cols. 763-4) (Cols 0765-0766) Appendix B to Written Answer to Questions (Cols. 763-4) (Cols 0767-0770) There is no record of figures for item (iii). RETURNS OF HOME ACCIDENTS FROM OCTOBER 1968 TO DECEMBER 1968 (Cols. 763-4) (Cols 0765-0766) RETURNS OF HOME ACCIDENTS FROM JANUARY 1969 TO DECEMBER 1969 (Cols. 763-4) (Cols 0767-0770)